group does whenever there's a natural disaster or hurricane. they get out there because they realize that no matter what comes later including discussions about refugee status and asylum, what a lot of refugees need when they cross the border first is food, a hot meal, some ability to sit down in a shelter, get warm, have something to drink, and think about what you're going to do next. if you're just joining us, i'm in warsaw, poland. saturday, march 26th, day 31 of russia's war against ukraine. the fourth and final day of president biden's urgent diplomatic trip to europe. usually this time you'd be seeing my good friend tiffany cross. i'm here in poland following president biden's trip, but rest assured tiffany is going to be back next weekend. right now the president is meeting with ukrainian refugees, as we said, at the pge national stadium, where refugees have been lining up waiting to be issued with polish identification cards and numbers that enable them to work and receive free health care and education. in this country in hopes of regain something sense of

normalcy in their lives. i'm also in poland today because it's the last step of president biden's european trip after his visit with the refugees. he's going to deliver what the white house is calling a major address regarding this war. it's his final act before heading home to washington tonight. we're keeping a close eye on the president's movements. we're going to continue to bring you the latest developments on that throughout the hour. i want to talk about warsaw for a moment. in the months since russia invaded ukraine, hundreds of thousands of refugees have passed through the polish capital. as you know, a total of 3.7 million people have left ukraine for other countries since russia -- russian forces turned their homes into a battle zone. of that 3.7, 2.2 million ukrainians have come to poland. millions are displaced within ukraine itself. according to unicef, more than 50% of ukraine's entire child population has been driven out of their homes because of the war. now in the last hour, president

biden met face to face with poland's president duda during which he reiterated america's commitment to its european partners and called article five of nato, quote, sacred. unity has been president biden's core message as he spent the week meeting with world leaders to fortify america's alliances as the world faces this extraordinary challenge. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy who spent the past month lentlessly advocating for his country's needs while remaining in the capital see it of kyiv addressed those world leaders on thursday. what results from this trip has a chance of affecting the outcome of this war. while a number of european countries have remained reluctant about imposing energy sanctions against russia, the u.s. announced yesterday that it's going to work to supply the eu with natural gas which is a step toward becoming less dependent on russia for energy supply. i'm going to talk more about that later this hour. amid the stories and images of total horror and destruction in ukraine, there are signs that russian forces continue to be stymied by staunch ukrainian

resistance. russia has reportedly lost partial control of the city of kherson as ukrainians fight to get it back. now nbc cannot independently verify the numbers of russian casualty and military losses, but russia's beginning to act like it's coming to terms with the setbacks that it's encountered. due to a significant loss of troops -- more than 16,000 russian soldiers killed, according to volodymyr zelenskyy. about 14,000 according to nato estimates. russia's looking to move reinforcements in from the country of georgia. on top of that, the latest messaging from the russian defense ministry indicates that russia is scaling back the goal of the so-called special military operation. russia's been stymied by ukrainian forces in and around the city of kyiv since the beginning of this invasion, and it's shifting focus to take control of the donbas region in eastern ukraine. hang on a second. i want to go back to the stadium in warsaw where president biden is talking. let's see if we can hear this.

>> thank you. can i help you at all? i know, i just -- thank you. >> you don't know how many -- >> nice to meet you, mr. president. >> what's your name? >> alissa. i grew up in georgia. i live in washington, d.c., now. we're neighbors. >> hello. >> yeah. >> guys -- let's go, guys. we're moving. we're moving. >> that's the scene at the stadium here in warsaw. i want to go to my colleague,

kelly o'donnell, who has been watching this all unfold. kelly, this is not the end of it, by the way. he's meeting with aid workers and refugees, and then there's going to be a major address. i assume these things like this major address which the whole world will be watching are preplanned. but it does feel like -- like president biden's been gathering data points throughout this entire trip. the meetings in brussels, the nato meetings, then his visit to the border, then his meeting today with president duda and other polish officials, and now his visit to this convention center in warsaw. it all seems to be coming together into something that he's going to talk about this afternoon. >> reporter: i think that's a fair assessment. and the president is collecting those points of reference and personal touchstones that fill out the picture of the things that he needs to understand in order to make policy and to try to reinforce the coalition that he's already helped to lead and to bring together the allies.

each of the powerful nations involved in nato and the g7 and the european union, each have a role to play. and the united states is always, as the late secretary of state madeleine albright said, the essential nation. and this kind of a scene playing out at the stadium was chosen in part because it is a place where refugees are getting a variety of services. they're getting warm meals. they're getting medical treatment as needed. they're getting some of the early sort of gift packages of some essential items that they need. they have an opportunity to interface with people who can help them get necessary paperwork and documents to begin the next stage of their transition to life in a temporary way outside of ukraine. so for the president, this is a way to see and meet with refugees and aid workers. and frankly, a safer location. they did not publicly say the president was going to this

location to reduce any potential threats there. you've got a mix of united states secret service, polish security. so the visuals we're see regular a little chaotic. that comes with the territory. but the president in his personal interactions is able to have moments, private moments, conversations, the clasp of a hand, talking to people, seeing things. the pictures almost give it a chaotic feeling, but in the experience of the president it is probably a lot more smooth because he's at the center of all of that energy. and we're seeing kind of the bigger sweep of the media and the security and all of that that's moving through this. the president will have an address later today at the royal castle. and that will be a chance to talk about the larger themes and maybe even share some of these personal experiences that he has gathered during his multistop

two-country tour of europe. just one month into this conflict, in some ways it feels like it was yesterday that the war began. in other ways, it feels like it's been much longer, and we've been cautioned by lots of officials that unknowing of russia's intentions next, this could go on for a long time. and they're preparing us for that. as we've talked about before, ali, the nations of nato and the eastern flank have their own concerns about what else could happen and the sort of list of unthinkables has grown. could there be chemical or biological agents used? could that spill into the other countries? and for all of these refugees, each one has a life and a story and loved ones left behind, especially the men in their lives, the husbands, the sons and brothers who have stayed behind to fight. there's a lot of personal trauma in each of their stories, and the president is getting to tap into this for just a brief moment. but for them, they've got to deal with it 24/7 with an unknown future.

it's hard to even imagine if you gathered up a couple of bags of your whole life and you didn't know what was ahead of you. it's an overwhelming thing to contemplate. and that's what these refugees, these ukrainian people who had a proud homeland just a month ago and lives and everyday existence, and now they're in situations like this. it's hard to really take it all in. and then you've got aid workers who are rushing to try to do what they can to help. ali? >> let me talk to you about sort of the two roles that poland is leading in. what we are looking at is a stadium. the government here in poland has been very aggressive about doing this the right way. first of all, it's got a very long border with ukraine, so it's logical that people would come here. it's the largest country in the region to come to. but it is a much more organized effort than i witnessed in hungary when i was there for the last few weeks. and the hungarian government has taken great exception to the fact that i have said this, but it's true. in hungary, this is being left to civil society organizations who are doing a fantastic job

with the support of the hungarian government to help refugees. but in poland, it's the actual government. there are groups like world central kitchen, there are churches and red cross and u.n. and groups like that, but the poles are taking the refugee part of it very seriously, and they're taking the nato part of it very seriously. they're taking the pushback on russia very, very seriously. so the importance of this meeting today, the reason that joe biden is here in poland as opposed to in romania or in slovakia or moldova is because poland is leading on the two very distinct parts of this catastrophe. >> reporter: very much so. it's interesting, when you look at poland's history -- of course it was a part of the warsaw pact. it had a security arrangement before it was in nato with the soviet union, and after that fell it had to forge a new relationship with the west. and today we heard president duda talking about wanting to

have joint manufacturing of western defense equipment like black hawk helicopters in poland, wanting to move toward american-made defensive equipment and to increase its own defense spending. we talked about migs in the conversation, the large conversation about what poland could perhaps give to ukraine. the soviet-made fighter jets that ukrainian pilots know how to use. poland wants to move away from russian and soviet-made equipment and move toward the west. so they are really in this interesting intersection where they have a history that understands the soviet and then russian sort of ethos, idealogy, culture. they've wanted to be more a part of the west. they understand the costs. there are places in poland that have the soviet bloc history, and then of course you go back to the nazi era. so this is a country and a

people that know what it's like to be in the cross hairs of war. in the united states, we don't have that same palpable feeling in our homeland. it's a different experience. here it's a very real and tangible thing. and so they are taking a view that this is in their national interest to deal with the ukrainian refugees, in their national interest to bolster their defense. and in this moment being a part of nato is their greatest security, and certainly among nato nations the united states is a partner that they have to be in close lockstep is the phrase the president has been using, president biden has been used, and that's what we're seeing. your observation is one that has a lot of geopolitical ties to it, not just your own anecdotal experience. but there are a lot of reasons why that's playing out as you've seen it and as we're witnessing

now. >> kelly, thank you for that. kelly o'donnell's here with me in warsaw, poland. i want to go to lviv where we have more. jacob, have you got air raid sirens going on there? >> reporter: yeah, you can probably hear them -- i'm going to take my earpiece out for a second. you can hear the warning that sounded here almost daily over the course of the last -- i want to let you listen for one second. [ siren ] so that is the sound of the air raid siren here in lviv. it's a sound that we've heard almost daily since i've been here inside this country. sometimes it happens five times a day. sometimes it happens once. over the last two days we haven't had one -- yesterday briefly there was one. it's a constant refrain here. you were talking about -- i want to show everybody, we are safe here. people on the ground will shelter. there will be an all-clear signal after the air raid siren all clear is issued by someone in the civil defense of the ukrainian military. you and kelly were talking about

points of fact that president biden as we look at him here on the ground in warsaw will be gathering as he talks to refugees, what it's like to live under constant air raid sirens like this from those refugees is one of the things that the president of the united states will be hearing. jose andres, there with world central kitchen, is distributing literally -- when i spoke to him, he called me last week and said they had distributed over a million meals to people fleeing. sounds like this in this country, that was a week ago. i wouldn't be surprised if it's double that at this point. they'll hear about hunger, malnutrition, violence, he'll hear about sheer terror and fear of living under circumstances just like this. he's going to hear from men, from women, from children. i want to play for you a little bit from one of the people who is just like the folks that the president of the united states is going to hear from. a pregnant woman, eight months pregnant, i met near the border with poland a couple of days ago.

watch this. the ukrainians, everybody feels so confident. "we are at home," she says. "we are defending our country. we have no choice. if we lose, we'll be left with nothing." [ siren ] >> reporter: so she's pregnant, she's there with her 7-year-old son. she's going to have a baby next month. but she says we're confident in a victory, confident given the circumstances, even with circumstances just like this that are playing out here every single day. those are the points of fact. the facts on the ground, as they say in the military and in diplomacy, that the president of the united states is probably gathering right now as he's there in warsaw where you are, ali. >> jacob, i want to look around you. these are air raid sirens, they occur regularly in lviv. we have seen a missile attack west of where you are, closer to the polish border. do people not really react to them very much when they go off? >> reporter: it's a combination.

and you can see behind me, people are on the street walking as if it's a regular day in the estate of 700,000 people. some people will go about their daily business. others over that way are going to go into a shelter that's in the basement of a church. i think that unfortunately there's some dissidence that plays out here. you're living in a city that's largely been spared from the types of attacks we've seen in kyiv or kharkiv or mariupol perhaps most notoriously and brutally, those images have that played out throughout the world. and here they haven't seen that. but this is what i am told life was like in kyiv before the rockets started to strike. i think that's the danger in this. it's not a sense of complacency, it's a sense that on the one hand there is some measure of normal life going on here while this country is in a state of war, while this country is living under marshal law. shops remain open. people are out on the streets. i'm looking at buses drive by.

tourists -- horses and carriage going up and down, playing in the park. it is -- it's a surreal experience to say the least. it is so devastating to people here. i think they're just grasping at any bit of normalcy they can have, even as air raid sirens play out all around them. >> when we have met people on this side of the border, either in hungary or in poland, many of them were talking about going to poland. that seems to be the destination. when i met them in budapest, the border, they would say they were headed to warsaw. lviv is becoming a point for people from eastern ukraine, they're skipping kyiv and going to lviv. some stay there, some have family. some leave and live elsewhere in western ukraine. but are you talking -- when you talk to people who are leaving ukraine, is poland the main destination? >> reporter: yeah, for the most part people are going to poland. obviously people are going to hungary, as well. you saw so many of them over the

course of your weeks there. the other thing that people are doing is staying here. as i mentioned, it's a city of 700,000. but the u.n. had estimated when i first arrived in this country that there were 200,000 internally displaced people which is what refugees are called before they leave this country. in the city, the red cross told me there were 300,000 people here. that's also part of why it looks so busy in this city. many people are hesitant to leave the country. they are hoping, literally praying -- last sunday in church, people were literally praying as i walked into them. i'm sure the same will be said tomorrow, for peace and for the country to return to normal. and they want to wait. they want to wait as long as they can before they leave to go to poland. for the most part, people who are transiting through here are going to poland. if you go to the train station at lviv, there are buses leaving virtually around the clock, mostly for warsaw. but as i said, if it was up to the ukrainian people, they wouldn't cross those borders, they would stay here as long as they can in hopes that this war will end.

>> all right, my friend. stay safe. i'm going to be joining you in a couple of days where you are, but keep -- keep us posted and if anything develops, you wave in front of the camera, we'll come to you live from lviv, ukraine. joining me is the former democratic congresswoman from california jane harmon. she served on the house intelligence, armed services, and homeland security committee. she's the distinguished fellow and president of the woodrow wilson international center for scholars, and author of "insanity defense: why our failure to confront hard national security problems makes us less safe." jane, good to see you again. thank you so much for being with us. i wanted to talk to you because we have not witnessed a week like this probably in decades. a week in which there is a real war going on, there's a real humanitarian crisis. there are probably war crimes being committed. we have an expansionist country that has breached another country's borders, and we have the president of the united states literally shuttling around the world to gather everybody around tables to make sure that there's a unified

response. i do not recall the last time we've seen this level of activity. >> it's been a long time. by the way, you stay safe. i'm talking to you from doha, qatar, at the security forum. and yes, you're right, this has been an absolute crazy week -- this is joe biden's sweet spot. he was made for this moment. europe and these organizations are the old senate that he remembers where people actually come together on a bipartisan basis to solve hard problems. and boy is this a hard problem. i give him an a-plus on this trip. but i would also say that in the middle east, the countries here are focused elsewhere. they're making a lot of money in oil and gas right now. zelenskyy spoke to the conference this morning. he pitched and -- i was sympathetic that more oil and gas should go to europe so it can wean itself from russian

oil. but europe doesn't have the infrastructure to receive the oil and gas. and it will take a couple of years. so these countries aren't focused on ukraine with the exception of qatar which processed all the refugees coming out of afghanistan, huge credit to them through this marvelous base here that's the forward operating command of centcom. qatar is sympathetic, but the others are basically not aligned. hard to say what -- what the bigger strategy's going to be coming out of this. biden's got a team, a team in the u.s., and he's aligned with europe to fight this. and russia has to step down. this can't end with, in my view, i don't think ukraine wants it to with russia gaining ground. >> let's discuss something that's relevant to where are you right now. qatar is the largest natural gas producer in the entire world. when russia invaded crimea, poland was very, very upset by

that at the time. they were also at the front end of wanting to do something about it, and they started to develop with qatar the idea that they would have the infrastructure and the ports to receive liquefied natural gas from qatar. in fact, poland is one of the countries around here that has pretty good infrastructure to get liquefied natural gas from qatar. there is now a plan to do that. president biden has brokered a plan to speed up the building of gas transportation infrastructure in europe, provide more of it because the united states, australia, and qatar are the biggest providers of natural gas in the world, and that could be the blow, that could be the final blow for russia if it actually stopped selling its natural gas to europe. >> yes. but poland has decent infrastructure. poland was early. this is good. and so was spain, imagine that. but the rest of europe doesn't. germany doesn't. >> yes. >> it has an lng terminal but underdeveloped. there is no transportation among

the countries. so we spoke to the oil and gas minister here this morning, and they say -- they're fully committed, their contracts are fully committed, they will not withdraw any contracts for europe and repurpose them elsewhere. but they don't -- there's no ability to sell more right now europe. two years is a long time in terms of this conflict and in terms of what the ukrainian people are enduring. i gather -- this is good new -- that germany in particular has a lot of advocates for tightening its belt as the minister said, holding its breath, and maybe rationing -- imagine this -- oil and gas for a period in order to finally cut back on russia -- and you're right, send the message that needs to be sent. this could be the best weapon against russian aggression. >> and of course something that biden has said over and over again this week, he said united, stand united, we have to stand united.

if russia thinks this alliance is going to crumble, they'll stay in ukraine. they can last in ukraine another month or two months or three months if they think the west will not stand united. if in fact the west does stay united, if nato does, if europe does, russia can't keep on sustaining this. so that seems to be part of joe biden's work here, saying stay the course. >> yes. it is, and he's doing very well with that. and i would say that nato has been renewed, and it's great that sultenberg is staying, he's a marvelous leader of nato. where is the u.n.? they seem to be awol, not even a conversation about peacekeepers, by the way. but i -- but if belarus comes into the fight, if china decides to aid russia, it could change. and so all i'm saying is this is a great alliance, and this alliance was to what emerged after world war ii. we need a strategy, not only to make this alliance stronger but to connect in the rest of the world, the middle east which is

now focused on better budget news -- africa and so forth. let's imagine an expansionist china -- >> let me interrupt you for a second because you know what we speak here. let's listen in to joe biden who's talking to what appear to be ukrainian refugees here in poland. stand by for a second. >> let's go -- let's go. >> jane, we're watching pictures of joe biden in his element. he's amongst people.

his empathy really sort of comes through in moments like this. i just want to go back to something you were saying before i impolitely interrupted you, and i apologize for that, jane. you talked about if belarus comes in, if china helps russia militarily. we also, you know, always have to keep an eye on what iran is doing and north korea's doing and syrians who might be coming in here. that's how this becomes a world war, right? that's how this becomes a world war, that you've got an alliance on one side and russia starts putting together this alliance on the other side. now you've got all sorts of people fighting each other. >> well, that's a risk. i don't think russia is -- if we go to hot war or a new cold war, i don't think russia leads it on the other team. i think china leads it on the other team, and russia is becoming a state of china. and what the russian economy sadly -- this is not a pitch for putin, but it's sadness for the russian people. and oh, by the way, 10,000

russian soldiers or more have died in ukraine. do their mothers know that? is there any news getting into russia? my point is, yeah, i don't see it emerging that way. i do see china becoming stronger. i also see china watching this carefully. if russia can get away with annexing ukraine, it's up to ukraine whether they want to -- i don't think they will. but if russia can get away with that, china can say, ooh, taiwan is next, and we could look at more, as you said, iranian expansion through proxies in the middle east, yemen. and that's bad news. so what i'm saying, bottom line here, is we need two tracks -- one is to stop russia, stop, totally stop russia. and to have a strategy for a better world order, not a new world order, that is more inclusive and that gets parts of the world, the middle east and

africa, on our side and so the two teams will be a team that respects democratic values and international institutions, and the other team that doesn't. >> a better world order. that's something we should all start thinking about. you and i should discuss more. thank you so much, as always. the former congresswoman jane hormon author of "insanity defense: why our failure to consult hard security problems makes us less safe." america's former ambassador to ukrainian next, and what the big week abroad will have on the war and on vladimir putin. let's actually -- hold on. president biden's talking. let's listen in. he's in poland. >> it's incredible. to see all those little children. just want to hug, just want to say thanks. i mean -- it's -- they're proud and wonderful, wonderful, wonderful -- and the ukrainian

people are -- each one of those children said something to the effect, say a prayer for my dad or my grandfather or my brother, he's back there fighting. and i remember what it's like when you have someone in a war zone. every morning you get up and you wonder, you wonder, you pray you don't get that phone call. and they're an amazing group of people. >> what do you make of what -- >> how does this make you think of -- >> it's astonishing. >> what does this -- you see this in your dealing every day with vladimir putin. look at what he's done to these people. what does it make you think? >> he's a butcher. >> do you make additional commitments -- >> do you -- >> thank you. thank you.

>> comment there from joe biden about the number of refugees who have come and left their husbands behind, their boyfriends, the men in their family, their sons, their brothers behind. and he says when you leave somebody, when you have somebody in a war zone, you are always hoping you don't get that phone call that something has gone wrong. again, joe biden meeting with ukrainian refugees here in warsaw. we'll be back after this break. w we'll be back after this break t. so, we're taking this to italy. refresh. because subway now has italian-style capicola on the new mozza meat and supreme meats. love the smell of italian food. subway keeps refreshing and refres- does daily stress leave you feeling out of sync? new dove men stress-relief body wash... with a plant-based adaptogen, helps alleviate stress on skin. so you can get back in sync. new dove men. a restorative shower for body and mind.

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ten million internally displaced people in ukraine. so president biden's at a convention center with jose and others. this is where refugees come when they first get to poland. they can get health care, they can get immediate health care. they can also sign up to get health care through the polish health system. they get a number that allows them to work in poland and receive social services in poland. that's -- they have buses. they've got buses -- a bus terminal that's been set up at this convention center. you can get tickets that are free to anywhere you want to go. in fact, you see the yellow and blue flags at the convention center. when you walk around the streets of warsaw, those ukrainian flags are literally everywhere. every street corner has a ukrainian and a polish flag. the buses, the transit system, it's all free for ukrainians who come in here. so this is the example of how a country should deal with refugees from a neighboring country. that, of course, has not been or -- never mind if they're a

neighboring country, a country in which people are seeking asylum. that's not been the experience, by the way, in europe in the last refugee crisis, the refugees from syria. poland actually didn't do a great job at that. wasn't as bad as the -- as hungary did, but poland didn't do a great job. joe biden going into the stadium. he's going to be around there for a little while. he is going to deliver a speech this afternoon in which he talks about this, what you're looking at here. this is nato. he's going to be talking about a renewed world order. we've got a convoy of emergency vehicles behind me. they are not -- there's nobody in them. it's police and a van and a few cars. i'll let that pass. all right. i'm going to -- i'm going to take a quick break. we're going to continue our coverage on the other side. we'll be bringing you more information about what is happening today in warsaw. you're watching "velshi" live from warsaw. arsaw. three children.

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i want to go live to lviv, ukraine. gabe gutierrez is standing by. there have been two booms that have been heard and an explosion seeps to have taken place. >> reporter: yeah. and actually let me show you what's going on right behind me. we can zoom over there. you see some smoke in the distance. and that appears to be coming from the site where just a few minutes ago we heard at least

one explosion here in lviv. we don't have confirmation on exactly what was hit. we're trying to find that out right now. i can tell you there is a tv tower near this location where the smoke is rising from. and if -- this would mark a significant development if something this close to the city center was hit by any sort of missile in lviv. days ago we had heard that a location near the airport -- an airplane repair facility had been hit as part of a military strike. and before that, another military installation here in the western part of ukraine had been hit. but this would be the third time in and around lviv that we've had some type of missile strike, but this is the closest to the city center that we have seen. again, the breaking news, what you're looking at right there -- smoke is rising from a location

just outside the city center in lviv. unclear exactly what was hit. we're trying to find confirmation. again, this is a -- some sort of missile strike in western ukraine. a few minutes before this, we had heard air raid sirens in this area. but as you may know, that is not uncommon in lviv, that's something we hear several times a day now. sometimes at night, but actually in the middle of the day, as well. usually not cause for alarm because it's become a way of life here, even in western part of ukraine where this has been a relatively safe place for thousands of refugees a day coming through lviv to other countries in europe. but again, right now we're looking at smoke rising from a location in lviv that was apparently hit potentially by some sort of missile within the

past few minutes. we're still working on more confirmation. >> let me just discuss what has happened so far in western ukraine. we had an attack on a military base that was closer to the polish border than it is to lviv. it was between the two, lviv in western poland, not far from the polish border. there was an attack that was in lviv, it was near the airport. the russians said it was a military facility. the ukrainians said it was an aircraft parts facility, something of that sort. but until now, that had been the closest strike to the city of lviv. this looks remarkably close to you. what did you hear and about how long ago was it? >> reporter: it was just about ten minutes, and just so we want to get to the live pictures again with the smoke rising behind me. i have to tell you, i heard something -- i was up in my room, i heard something very faint -- although some of my team that was out here on the floor where we're broadcasting

from heard a much louder boom. and that -- you know, then they saw smoke rising from here. it happened very quickly, just a few minutes ago, ali. earlier in the morning, though, i can tell you we had heard those air raid sirens. again, we are watching the smoke rising from this location. unclear to me whether it was one missile or potentially two that were -- that actually hit this location. and again, the question right now is what was hit. it appears to be near -- and i can see a tv tower not far from where i'm standing. and in these types of situations, you know, it can be that the russians have targeted either military installations or communications locations in order -- you know, that's what was expected in these types. situations. so unclear, again, what the target was, whether it hit its intended target. unclear if there's any injuries

or fatalities at this point. we're all working to figure that out as this just happened a few minutes ago. again, the breaking news is that western lviv, this is not kyiv, this is not another part of the country, but this is western lviv, a city that has been seen as safe haven for so many people coming through here, and has been operating basically in a state of, you know, normalcy essentially in the sense that, you know, there are people still walking around the city center here. life is going on relatively as normal, at least as normal as it can during a war. another haunting reminder, though, that things can change at any moment here. as we wait to get more confirmation on what happened. it's not far from me at all. i would say a few miles that we now see smoke rising from this location. >> let's -- give me a sense -- because we were talking to jacob a few minutes ago when -- before

we were talking to you, when we heard the air raid sirens. in fact, i think i've got -- i want to keep you both here for a second. jacob, you were showing us the scene around you. there were buses, people walking around, there was some music. has that changed since this explosion? >> reporter: look up in this direction, beyond the tree and beyond the tower, you're looking at the smoke live right now from the direction of where that communications tower is. i think you can sigh -- if you pan off to the left a little bit -- you can see the communications you to cher we've been looking at since we've gotten here over the course of the past couple of weeks, thinking about that that could be a potential target. it doesn't appear to have been directly struck, but to the right of it is where the smoke is coming from. not long after i cleared the air with you, we heard one if not two -- how many did you hear? two. we heard about two booms that sounded like they were in the distance, but not long after

that -- and i don't know, can you see it? can you see the smoke in the distance right there? >> we can see it, yeah. >> reporter: right after we heard the booms we saw the smoke start to rise. that's a dark, black smoke that we are seeing right now. and you would assume that obviously there's an ongoing fire in that area. just beyond where you're looking, behind where i'm standing is the city center of lviv. another potential point of impact could be lviv's city hall. i'm not suggesting that that's what happened, but behind these buildings is a very historic city center area in lviv. and lviv's city hall is just beyond there. we had seen lots of fortifications in that area, everything from monuments to the critical infrastructure of this city, the mayor of lviv has come out and given press conferences in lviv square right there.

and that's the exact direction from which the explosions have come and the smoke is continuing to rise. since -- since we heard those first two explosions, we haven't heard any other explosions since. we certainly haven't been given the all clear signal, and actually, i don't know if you can see down in this area, but the shelter -- there's -- that is a bomb shelter -- >> you were pointing to that earlier. >> in the distance, at the bottom of that building, exactly. those people are going -- they're standing around the opening of it. i don't know if it's because the bomb shelter is filled or if those people are choosing not to go in. but that is the bomb shelter in this general area for when an air raid siren were to alert. now if you look at the park, it's starting to clear out. this is a park that was filled when you and i were talking moments ago. right now there are far fewer people here. it doesn't appear that everybody has gotten the message or heard the noises, but there are constantly noises here.

cars going by. this is a city that's been relatively normal since we've gotten here over the past couple of weeks. let's look down here downstairs. people are walking along the balcony -- along the sidewalk as if nothing has occurred. but just off in the distance you can see it, the smoke is continuing to rise. this is not some sort of smoke that's stopped. there was -- there was an explosion, we don't know if it was a rocket attack. but that's certainly what appears to be and the direction of the -- of the tower there. >> let me ask you -- i've got gabe with me, as well. i want to see if i've got both of you. jacob, just tell me about what it sounded like. what did it feel like when it went off? obviously you're in a war zone so you know if you have loud booms it's quite possibly a missile or rocket or a bomb. what happened in that instant? >> reporter: after i spoke with you, ali, i went back inside the hotel here, and i went back up

to my room. and once i was in the room, i was actually preparing to leave for a shoot. and while i was in the room getting ready to leave, i heard what sounded like a really big concussion. didn't feel it, but we certainly heard it. the windows to my room was open, and it was a very, very loud boom. then moments later there was a second what sounded like explosion. i didn't hear, as we have heard before, airplanes or fighter jets or rockets flying overhead. last week i was out in the farm on the outskirts of lviv. we heard what could have been a russian or ukrainian military fighter jet fly over. that's not -- we did not hear that. we didn't hear incoming, i guess you could say. we heard only the impact and the explosion. and it definitely sounded like it was coming from that direction. i opened the windows. i looked out both ways and didn't see anybody running right away. but now we're starting to see people clearly scrambling, going to the shelter, and -- and very

visibly black smoke looming over the city center of lviv. >> and gabe, you also have a perspective on the city streets from where you are. you're in a different place. are you seeing something similar to what jacob is seeing in terms of the city thinning out now all of a sudden? people seem to have gotten the message that something's happened? >> reporter: yeah. i'm looking from my perspective here. we're overlooking the city center of lviv. just a few blocks away really. and from my vantage point, i can see that the streets have greatly cleared out at this point. earlier today, it was extremely busy throughout lviv. actually pretty incredible weather earlier today. the sun was out. it was a relatively high temperature, and it was just like any other weekend day where, you know, many people were on the streets, it was very crowded. a lot of traffic. now as i'm looking down, i see very little foot traffic. this appears people have gone

indoors. for viewers just joining us, you see the smoke rising in the distance. you can see how close it is to the city center, just several miles away. very ominous black smoke rising in the distance. again, we're still waiting on confirmation of exactly waiting confirmation of exactly how many explosions there was. it appears to be at least two. possibly even three explosions, but that's unclear at this point. again, unconfirmed reports and we do not know if anyone was injured. but i can tell you from my vantage point here, the smoke is rising from near a location where a tv tower is located here in lviv. so not sure if that could have been a potential target or if something else close to it was a potential target. unclear if this was, you know, a civilian apartment building that perhaps, we just do not know at this point. within the past 20 minutes or so, we heard this explosion, at

least one, possibly two explosions that, you know, rocked this area just outside of lviv. and just like jacob was saying, we had heard the air-raid sirens just a little earlier. he had seen people in his location, walking around. we were just on a shoot a little earlier today. we were able to walk around after the shoot, down the street, and run into people. they were in coffee shops any other weekend morning here in lviv. as you can see, allie, things have taken a significant turn here as this smoke is now rising over lviv, just a few miles from the city center. now, the mayor who i just spoke with several days ago said this city had gone from taking about 60,000 refugees a day down to 10,000 refugees a day because they were heading to other parts of ukraine. but i spoke to him the day after there was that strike at an airplane repair facility, right near the airport. the mayor at the time had told

me that he saw no purpose for that. he just thought it was just to destroy property in lviv. however, it appears that may have been a targeted strike at some type of facilities. it's unclear, again, whether this was a strike at some sort of military installation or whether civilians were hit in this -- in this attack. what it appears to be. but again, the breaking news, just 20 minutes ago for those of you just joining us. about 20 minutes ago, we heard one, possibly two loud booms here. it was some sort of explosion, and we're trying to determine whether it was some sort of rocket attack, what the target was, and if anyone was injured. this smoke is rising in lviv. the western part of ukraine. this is far from the fighting in kyiv, far from the fighting in the east, and in the south. we've heard so much about mariupol in the last couple of days. this is in the extreme other end

of the country in western ukraine, and we now see this ominous black smoke rising near the city center, alex. >> it's ironic, you've got sirens there, we've got sirens here because the president of the united states is here trying to deal with this particular situation. what is interesting, and i want to bring in my colleague, ally -- ali arouzi is here. there was a discussion in the first days of the war about whether or not they would try to get volodymyr zelenskyy to go to lviv. he wasn't part of those discussions. it seems to be an american intelligence discussion, information that was leaked out the fact that it's safer to be in lviv than it is to be in kyiv. ali arouzi, you have seen this kind of thing before. you probably have some sense of the distance of it. this is quite close to a major city center. >> hi, ali, this is very close

to the city center. look, there have been several attacks on the outskirts of lviv over the last couple of weeks. i haven't seen smoke this thick, and this much of it, in any of those attacks. where i'm seeing the smoke come from is sort of a northeast of the city and as you mentioned, ali, lviv was always meant to be a safe zone, a safe place on the west of the country, close to the polish border, but that clearly is changing over the course of the days and weeks. this has certainly been the loudest thump we have heard since we've been here. that aircraft maintenance facility that was hit on the outskirts of the city, that was only 4 miles outside of the outskirts of the city, and nowhere near the amount of black smoke we're seeing right now, and this is obviously going to further rattle all the people that have escaped from the east of the country to come here in lviv. you know, i was just coming back to the hotel when the air-raid sirens went off. there had been no bangs at that

point. but you could see the people leaving their hotel rooms, you know, a look of anxiety on their face, as you know, young mothers, children, elderly, were again, filtering into underground shelters, which i have to tell you, ali, are not bomb shelters. these are normal underground rooms with gyms or swimming pools. they are looking anxious. they're going down there, and it does make you anxious. this is probably not the safe zone, and this goes back to the point that you and i were talking about earlier this morning, that, you know, that strategy of vladimir putin that maybe he maybe concentrating on donetsk may have been way too early to speculate on. this is about as far west in the safe part of the country you can get to, and if this is a russian missile strike or some kind of shelling, this is extremely concerning for the people here in lviv, and it would obviously

be way too premature to say that vladimir putin has changed his plans and is concentrating on occupying territories in donetsk, for him everything is fair game in this country for him. again, i have to stress, we're not sure what has hit this missile, shelling. you know, it could be an accident. it's unlikely, but it could be anything at this point. i don't want to speculate too much on exactly what is causing this kind of smoke. but i'm looking at it now, ali. it is turned from sort of lightish gray at the beginning, to almost black now, and it just keeps coming up. obviously something that burns fuel, that burns metals has been hit. otherwise it wouldn't cause this kind of black smoke, ali. >> i want to ask jay sob soboroff that. you're right, we can't speculate as to what's been hit because we

don't know. but jacob, the big clue we have that i think all three of you have said is that it wasn't one boom. it was at least two booms. >> reporter: we heard at least two booms which would either suggest two impacts or a subsequent explosion, ali, after the first impact, and as i mentioned, that's the city center. it's a unecso world heritage site, a very historical part ofl city. where we see is the smoke is slightly off center of where the city hall is. i can actually see the place where the black smoke appears to be emanating from, and i mean, i want to point to you, if you can see it. it's not directly straight behind us, it's a little bit off to our left, and it continues, as ali was saying, it's continuing to rise and the smoke

is continuing to stay that dark black which suggests as ali said that something very flammable, explosive, continues to burn, and when the first explosion hit, i could smell it. i could smell -- it smelled like a gun powder or the smell of explosion. i don't know. that's an elementary way to say it. the smell changed instantly here. you can see the rain starting to fall here in lviv. as i watch, it's a continuous stream of black smoke. communication tower is in tact, which suggests that's not what was struck. whether or not it was the target, we don't know. but there it is. you can see it up there, and it doesn't appear to be at least what was impacted by the explosion here. >> i want to get another sense from gabe gutierrez about the

situation in the street because, again, the juxtaposition of the half hour ago, jacob and i were talking, people were milling around, not like a place you would expect there were air-raid sirens. we can sort of see it in your shot. gabe, i know you've got a different perspective on this. tell me what's happening on the streets of lviv right now. >> reporter: oh, sure, and actually i want to come to you with a first comment we've gotten from the head of the lviv regional military association. just a statement posted. there were three powerful explosions near lyiv, apparently a town right on the outskirts of lviv, outside the city limits, however, this first confirmation we've gotten from the head of the lviv regional military association, as you heard emergency sirens in my shot in the background. we now hear that there were

three, three powerful explosions near lyiv. keep calm and be in shelter. again, a statement we've gotten just in the last few seconds. so ali, as we look at this from my location, i'm not far from ari and jacob, but we can see the smoke continuing to rise in the background. it is thick, black smoke. and it is, you know, it's unclear exactly what was hit. but as jacob noted, the communications tower not far from here remains in tact. so we just don't know at this point what this site was. we have heard some emergency sirens rush big here, just within the last few minutes. traffic has cleared out. i wouldn't say for the most part, but it is less so than what we saw earlier. not traffic certainly has been decreasing t