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ukrainian city of lviv, a city that had so far largely escaped direct ataxzs. this shows the ferocity of the flames at the fuel depot hit in lviv. and then global fallout from this ad hp libbed rather from president biden about putin in his speech in poland. >> we will have a different future, a brighter future, rooted in democracy and principle, hope and light, of decency and dignity, of freedom and possibilities. for god's sake, this man cannot remain in power. god bless you all. >> so despite a white house walkback that biden was not endorsing regime change in russia, french president epan emmanuel macron warned against inflaming language, and some said the president went too far. >> i think all of us believe the world would be a better place without vladimir putin, but second, that's not the u.s. official policy. by saying that, that regime

change is our strategy, effectively, it plays into the hands of the russian propagandists and plays into the hands of vladimir putin. so it was a mistake and the president recognized that. >> we want to start, though, this hour with breaking news. moments ago, air raid sirens going off once again in the western city of lviv after multiple air strikes by russia just yesterday. ali arouzi is on the ground for us in lviv. it's good to talk to you. we know these air raid sirens periodically go off. yesterday, however, we heard those air raid sirens and the strikes subsequently following. it seems these are the first sirens we're hearing in the city since the strikes yesterday. what are you making of it and is there any expectation strikes are to follow? >> hi, yasmin. that's right. air raid sirens went ought just shortly before we came on air with you, and they just cut off a few minutes ago. just before we started speaking. and yes, it has become a regular

occurrence here in lviv. they go off at all hours of the day. i have been here for three weeks now, and they are very regular. you do have lulls sometimes before the attack yesterday, it had been a good 48 hours before we had had the air raid sirens which is unusual in itself because they were happening every day. i have to tell you, they go off a lot of the times and much of the time there isn't an attack. but this is a country that is being attacked. lviv may not be the eastern part of the country, but they're on high alert. as we saw yesterday, the air raid sirens were necessary. people were told to go and take shelter, go into underground shelters. the mayor of lviv kept pushing that through. if you hear the air raid sirens, go to the shelters. it doesn't seem for now anything is heading our way, but it could be a precaution they're taking no chances here. >> we know that the russians are

targeting areas in which they can take out essential infrastructure to ukrainian cities. has there been any fallout from the attack yesterday on, for instance, the fuel depot in lviv? >> well, i mean, look, as we spoke yesterday, this was the biggest u tack in lviv since the war started. and it goes into what we were saying yesterday as well. these are stategic targets by the russians. they hit a fuel depot, a military factory. we don't know what it was exactly, and the authorities here don't want us to talk about those things even if we knew. but today we heard from the russian defense ministry that they had hit a large fuel depot, the russian defense minindustry say that fuel depot was being used to send fuel to the east of the country, to help the ukrainian soldiers there fight their war. we don't know what was in that

military factory, but again, we can assume that things are being sent from there to the front lines. and that's why they would have targeted these strategic areas in the west of the country, because things, supplies, amination, all of these sort of things are coming in from poland and other countries that are bordering the west of ukraine. and they don't want them to get to the east where they're fighting the ukrainians who are doing a phenomenal job, and that's probably why they're targeting these areas more. we saw that airplane repair facility that was hit two weeks ago. though were aging migs in those airplane repair facility. they were not high state of the art aircraft. nonetheless, they didn't want them in the skies. and that's why they hit them. but there is a danger. that fuel depot that was hit was hit very close to residential buildings. if one of those missiles had gone a few hundred yards another way, it probably would have hit a residential building, and that

does frighten people here. we speak to people here in lviv, they don't say that peace is shattered in lviv, but security was punctured after yesterday's attack. they say they feel safe here, but they also say vladimir putin is capable of anything. >> the reality on the ground there. ali arouzi, thank you. i'm going to talk to you again at the top of the 4:00 p.m. hour. >> want to go to the fallout from the nine words about vladimir putin from president biden. for god's sake, he said, this man cannot remain in power. let's go to josh lederman on the ground in warsaw. let's talk through this. we spoke yesterday immediately after the president wrapped those remarks. and of course, we heard the white house backing up or i should say walking back those remarks. talk to me about how things have developed so far today and how folks are reacting in warsaw. >> yeah, that clean-up on

president biden's remarks started before president biden had even boarded air force one to fly home from his speech here in warsaw, with the white house official saying that biden was not calling for a change in power in russia. and the cleanup has extended all the way to jerusalem where secretary of state antony blinken was meeting with his israeli counterpart today and said look, what biden meant is that president putin cannot be allowed to exert this kind of power over his neighbors, infringing on the sovereignty of other nations. but i want you to hear first from the u.s. ambassador to nato, who put her own spin on what president biden said, and then to hear how a top republican senator, jim risch, is responding. watch. >> let me be clear and just state right off the bat that the u.s. does not have a policy of regime change towards russia. but i think what we all agree on

is that president putin cannot be empowered to wage war. >> any time you say or even as he did, suggest that the policy was regime change, it's going to cause a huge problem. this administration has done everything they can to stop escalating. there's not a whole lot more you can do to escalate than to call for a regime change. >> now, the kremlin is responded, obviously they're not happy about these comments either, yasmin, with the kremlin spokesman saying it's up to the russian people, not president biden, who's going to lead that country. the ukrainians, for their part, are saying that as far as putin is concerned, it would be hard for him to govern russia from the hague. obviously, a reference to their hope that he will be prosecuted in the international criminal court, but we're also hearing from some who say it's more about the cleanup that was the problem, including congressman tom malinowski, himself a former presidential speechwriter and former state department

official, who said that biden shouldn't have said those comments, but that the walkback was really inappropriate. malinowski saying its moral meaning is clear and the practical implications inescapable. >> all right, josh lederman for us in warsaw, thank you. >> want to bring now helene cooper, she's a pentagon correspondent for "the new york times" and an msnbc contributor. thank you for joining us. let's pick up where josh left off there. you're talking about the optics of yesterday. you have the president making this incredibly powerful speech in warsaw, poland, about 200 miles away from lviv as the city is being bombed. as strikes are falling on that city on a fuel depot, for instance, five people injured there. it seemed as if it was a message from vladimir putin with the american president just 100 -- a couple hundred miles away. then you have these nine words from president biden, saying putin cannot remain in power. the white house then walking that back. as we have heard from people on

television all throughout this morning, most republicans, democrats across the board, believe putin should not remain in power. isn't this something vladimir putin already knew the united states thought? and so what was the harm in president biden saying this? >> hi, yasmin. thanks for having me. i mean, yes, people all believe here that the white house does not want to see vladimir putin remaining in power, but those are pretty powerful words coming from the leader of the free world. and the walkback, you know, i kind of agree with tom malinowski. once he said it, it's sort of the walkback looks even more damaging, which is, i think, the point that you are making and making quite well. it's been said now the kremlin is going to use that for their narrative, but so what, they have -- the kremlin has been spitting out their narrative devoid of any reality base since

this war started. so it's done, the white house probably would be better off just moving on from it instead of wrapping iticideself into a pretzel trying to walk it back. russia will say this is escalation and this has been a time for almost the past five weeks now, the biden administration has de-escalated every single time russia escalated. biden has de-escalated. every time putin, for instance, brings up and starts talking about his nuclear toys and says i have them, i have them, the united states has ignored that and just moved on and de-escalated. now we have slipped a little bit, but what's done is done. it's not as if anybody here in the u.s. actually wants to see putin remaining in power, so -- >> well, and i want to kind of pull on that thread a little bit, because how does this world

continue on with vladimir putin remaining in power? however this all ends up. he is not bashar al assad. this is not syria. that we are dealing with. this is russia, who is integral and has been historically to so many negotiations, whether it be with iran, whether it be negotiations involving china, whether it be negotiated involving syria, vladimir putin has been, russia has been integral in helping in many instances the united states get through some of these issues. so how does this world go on with vladimir putin remaining in power after the atrocities we have seen him level in ukraine? >> exactly. that is exactly what i think president biden was getting at. and i think that's a very tough question to answer. it's really hard to imagine, look, vladimir putin has already been kicked out of the g8. he's about to get kicked out of the g20. russia is at this point

bordering on a pariah status. and it's hard to see that coming back as long as you have what we have now seen. he's waged war in the internet age, which means every single strike in ukraine, every time we see a theater in mariupol, we see children, we see maternity hospitals, we see pregnant women dying, we see civilians being killed over again and again and again. you don't just come back from that in the world that we live in now. you know, 100 years ago when you weren't seeing everybody's video camera or phone taking videos of what atrocities as they were taking place, you know, maybe a leader or a tyrant or whatever you want to call putin could come back from that, but this is going to be really hard in the kind of world we live in. and i think the question then will become, what do the russian people feel they can tolerate? at the end of the day, they're

the ones who are going to be sanctioned. they're the ones who, you know, are seeing stores shut down and all of this commerce leaving russia, and they're not going to be allowed to fly to this country. they're seeing these walls go back up that are going to isolate russia from the rest of the world. and i am going to be fascinated to see and find out just how long they can tolerate that. >> i gotta tell you, the niemsz, your paper, has an incredible piece today talking about kind of the progression of vladimir putin over the last 20-plus years from statesman to this. if you have an opportunity to read it, you should. there's this amazing picture of vladimir putin sitting alongside then president george w. bush, and they're just yucking it up, as if they were best friends, i believe in june of 2001. you think about then and now, that split screen moment just incredible. helene cooper, as always, thank

you for your brilliant analysis. great to talk to you. >> still ahead, congressman seth moulton is going to be here to talk about his new bill that would use seized assets of russian oligarchs to help rebuild ukraine. >> and next, a member of the ukrainian parliament joins me. what he still wants to see from the west following president biden's visit to the region. we'll be right back. my name is douglas. i'm a writer/director and i'm still working. in the kind of work that i do, you are surrounded by people who are all younger than you. i had to get help somewhere along the line to stay competitive. i discovered prevagen. i started taking it and after a period of time, my memory improved. it was a game-changer for me. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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welcome back. president biden now back in washington after a historic trip to europe amid russia's invasion of ukraine. biden meeting with ukrainian refugees in warsaw and praising poland for welcoming more than 2 million ukrainians who have fled the war. want to bring in dasha burns on the ground for us in krakow, poland. great to see you. give us the latest on the ground there. i know you spent time with people in krakow helping ukrainian refugees. what do they tell you? >> yasmin, so good to see you, too. it does not cease to amaze me how much this country has pivoted in the last several weeks to putting now all of its attention on this crisis. becoming a massive welcome center for refugees everywhere you look. here in krakow, there is somebody, someone who is just an everyday person, not talking big organizations. i'm talking everyday polish people who have put their lives

on hold in order to help people who have left their lives behind. take this one woman we met, she has been a tour guide. she works a as a teacher, but she spends several hours of her day at least buying supplies for refugees coming here. buying supplies that shy then tries to get to soldier in ukraine. tourniquets, bandages, medications, diapers for the babies here in poland and she works with a friend of his who has turned his rest rantd, would have been a bustling tourist hub, but he's turned it into a center for helping refugees as well. take a listen to what she told me. >> physically, i'm here for several hours a day. but i have to say that i mean the story and the refugees, they are living within me all the time, so 24 hours a day. i'm mentally in here and with them. >> this kind of your full-time job now? >> yes. i would say it is.

however, i still have my part-time regular job, and i still have my family. but i think that now the priority is to provide help to the others. >> that is a mindset of so many people here. and what's really remarkable, yasmin, is i have now started to run into ukrainian refugees who themselves are volunteering to help others who are newly coming across the border. this effort is enormous. and it's so heartening in a time of so much tragedy, yasmin. >> do people on the ground there, dasha, feel as if the current flow of refugees into their country and into krakow, specifically, that it's sustainable? >> yeah, it's a question i keep asking, and i asked that question of agnashka, she said she's going to do this as long as the need is there. i think the question polish people have for the world is,

how long can the world sustain its attention to this crisis? because while the people who are everyday helping to house refugees to feed refugees, they're here in poland, the way they're able to do that is through funds and through support and through donations that are coming in from around the world. so they're just hoping that that global generosity doesn't erode too soon, yasmin. >> all right, dasha burns for us in krakow, thank you. >> for more on this situation on the ground in ukraine specifically, i want to bring in the youngest member of the ukrainian parliament in its history, who is now also an official member of the country's military. thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate it. i know that you lost your partner just a few weeks ago. she was a journalist. with fox news. how are you doing? >> well, she was far more than a partner. we spent a decade together going

through this, that, and the other. and covering every bit of the story, of the facts on the ground and how russians killed her and getting all those facts and organizing of them should be to provide her decent farewell has been crushing. but her loss and loss to so many in ukraine should be for something, and something is victory we're fighting for every single day. >> i know that you returned to the place in which she was killed. why? why did you feel as if that was important? >> i was asked to by her family, to bring them there and show, see exactly where all that happened. it's not the only part of that story which is so painful to discover, but basically, if i was in their position, i would also want all of the confirmation in the world to truly accept such a tragedy. because again, this was their

only daughter, and it's something that is impossible to believe, how full of life and how full of desire to achieve so many different things in life she was. >> i know that she was specifically covering the humanitarian crisis in suburban kyiv, and all eyes have been on kyiv for quite some time, thinking as if the russian forces were descending on kyiv for an eventual takeover. when you visited that area where she died, what did you experience on the ground there from the people? >> well, there aren't so many left. it's extremely active fighting. there are shells falling all around. there is active firefightings happening in the area, and it's about half an hour from where i sit right now, so the reality is fighting is very near always, and kyiv is a frontline city which is experiencing strikes day in and day out, night in and night out, and the battles are

creeping ever closer. even though we pushed them out of the city, we're fighting for the suburbs of kyiv, basically, and that's the place where she was killed by russians. >> you heard the american president speaking yesterday, president biden. in warsaw. i'm sure. what was your reaction to what he had to say, specifically saying that no matter what, the united states will stand with ukraine, the united states and their nato allies? >> very glad, very thankful, but the reality is so much more is needed to try and defeat and show that you cannot disrupt national world order. you cannot just invade countries. you cannot destroy them without consequence. we're trying to help the world defeat this aggressor, which is trying to transverse against all that is, not just in ukraine but all around the world. russia has been very clear

violator of the world order and mr. putin has to go, and mr. biden is exactly right calling for the end of his leadership of the largest country on earth. >> so you think -- so are you happy that the president said that at the very end of his speech, that he said he cannot remain in power? >> that is very least he can say about the man who is killing and butchering thousands of people around ukraine right now. has been killing hundreds of thousands in syria for the last decade, not to mention the disasters imposing around the world to make a point he can do it. the point is that man is an abomination for anyone who wishes peace and security in the world around us. so of course, he is somebody who needs to be thrown out of office at the very least, and again, i hope national law gets to him eventually and punishes him for his crimes as those who perpetrate against national peace were punished in the second world war.

>> i am so sorry for the loss of your partner. the love of your life. and we appreciate you joining us today to talk about that. all right, right now, everybody, a pro-ukraine rally is under way in washington. demanding a no-fly zone and more military assistance. here's a live look at that. president zelenskyy also making a virtual address in the last few minutes. we're going to take you there coming up. >> plus, congressman seth moulton on why the biden administration is not calling for a regime change in russia.

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gary grumbach is there for us. as we're taking a listen to some of the protesters there and the sounds we're hearing in our nation's capital, what is the main message you're hearing from folks there and the people that are gathering? >> hey there. yeah, the message really is unity. kyiv is about 5,000 miles from where i'm standing right now. but ukraine is worldwide. what you're listening to behind me is a burch of first graders from a local ukrainian school singing songs in support. these are some of the youngest people who are affected by the violence overseas. and we have also heard from the ukrainian ambassador to the u.s. and former ambassador to ukraine, and they all have a very similar message. what they're saying is there was a time before the war started in ukraine, a time after the war started in ukraine. that will forever be a turning point. and they're asking for very specific things from the united states.

including more humanitarian assistance. more weapons when it comes to on the ground weapons and defense weapons in the air. and they're also calling for a no-fly zone. and that's been an incredible controversial topic and one that the biden administration has so far been resistant to. here's what some folks are talked to today had to say about that. >> it is a very controversial question for me because partially i can understand why they are so hesitant to do that, but on the other side, it just me being from ukraine, it's breaking my heart to not be able to save those kids and people that did nothing. they don't have weapons. there is no reason to kill them. >> i definitely don't wish this upon any other country, civilization. i don't want this happen to anyone, so i'm just trying to hope this becomes as small as possible and ends soon. >> now, there's a couple people here, a couple hundred people

outside the lincoln memorial and they come from all walks of life. some are from ukraine. some are local d.c. residents that support ukraine. there are a lot of ukrainian flags here today. i asked some folks where they got these flags. some say they had them sitting around. other used a sewing machine to put together blue and yellow fabric just last night. yasmin. >> gary grumbach, thank you. >> want to bring in democratic congressman seth moulton from massachusetts. he's also a marine corps veteran who served in iraq. congressman, thanks for joining us. i'm going to ask you straight out of the gate here, of course, to react to the president's comments yesterday at the very end of the speech, the final few words in which he said vladimir putin cannot remain in power. what did you make of it, and what did you make of the walkback by the white house? >> well, look, i think the white house is doing the right thing here. and here's why. we have heard the kremlin's spokesman twice now say that if

the russian -- if russians' existence is threatened, they will resort to nuclear weapons. the whole goal is for the biden administration to pressure putin without escalating the war. the last thing we want to see is the use of nuclear weapons. the problem is that we're dealing with a president here who's a megalomaniac. he cares about himself, not his people. my worry is that while russian policy states that if the country is threatened he might use nuclear weapons, putin could interpret it to say if his own power is threatened, he might use nuclear weapons. so i think the white house did the right thing. in term of the president, look, president biden, this is who president biden is. i know joe biden. he tells it like it is. he said something that everyone in the world, i guess, with the exception of tucker carlson and donald trump, is thinking, which is that putin has got to go. >> putin already thinks this, though. the people surrounding people

already think this as well, and this is something he has already communicated to the russian people. so what difference does it make that the american president is now standing up on a stage in warsaw, poland, and saying it, and the white house subsequently walking it back? when putin already thinks it. with you think he's going to make a decision to use nuclear weapons based off what president biden said? >> look, the point is that putin is looking for an excuse to escalate the war because it's not going well. what the white house has been doing all along here, what president biden has been doing quite brilliantly, is finding ways to support the ukrainians, to pressure putin without actually giving him an excuse to escalate the war. i mean, that's why it's not right to establish a no-fly zone over the country as well. we don't want to give putin an excuse to turn this into a war against nato. of course, this is the case that putin has been trying to make all along, that this is not about conquering ukraine. it's about stopping nato. we don't want to give him the ammunition to do so. but at the same time, i think

you're right that when you say, hey, what's the big deal here? is the pres or republicans making too much of a big deal over the president's comments? in a certain sense, they are. the white house did what they have to do from a policy perspective, but we all know president biden is someone who speaks the truth, sometimes when even maybe he shouldn't, and i think this is one of those cases where he said what everyone else was thinking. probably not a big deal at the end of the day, but there's a reason the white house walked it back. >> a few things i want to get to before i let you go. i know you're sponsoring a bill aimed at taking oligarchs' money to help rebuild ukraine. >> we call it yas for ukraine. the message we're sending to all of these oligarchs, many who seem to think they can just ride this out, sitting on their yachts in the mediterranean, not worrying about the war or confronting their enabler, the war criminal vladimir putin, about what he's doing. we're sending a message to them that you can't ride this out, because all of those assets that

we say we seize now, they're going to be seized permanently and they're going to be used to rebuild ukraine. the whole motivation here is to get them to actually confront vladimir putin and stop this war. that's the point behind these sanctions. but if the oligarchs don't get the message that their assets are gone, not for a few weeks, but gone permanently, then they won't confront putin, that's what this bill tries to do. >> let's play name that text message, congressman. written by who. help this great president stand firm. you're the leaders with him, who is standing for america's constitutional governance at the precipice, the majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist in our history. you tweeted about this and the story "the washington post" broke when it came to text messages between ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, and then chief of staff mark meadows saying now we know why justice thomas wanted to let trump hide his records.

this is exhibit a on why he better recuse himself from the inevitable trump scotus cases. expand on that for me. >> justice thomas was the only justice on the entire supreme court who voted against showing trump's records. he voted to keep them private. and it seems like now we know why. so we need to get to the bottom of this. we need to understand exactly what justice thomas knew. we need to understand when he knew it. and it seems like the most modest of requests that he recuse himself from all future dealings with donald trump. i mean, this is -- this has the smell of conspiracy at the highest levels. it's time for the justice decome clean. >> congressman seth moulton, as always, thank you for joining us on this sunday afternoon. >> our coverage of the war in ukraine is going to continue, but we're going to have a look at other stories we're following after a quick break, including

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it's a waystation of uncertainty and anxiety. ali velshi went to a station in warsaw where people find help and hope. >> this sea of cots at this warsaw convention center may look familiar, like the scenes that follow hurricanes, floods, and fires. but this disaster is entirely manmade, and the people sheltering here may not have the chance to rebuild their homes. >> we came here two days ago because we need help. we don't know what to do and how to live. currently, we're planning to find a house in the uk. we don't have anything in uk. but just people who are willing to help us. >> eve is just 15. she's here with her mother. alongside 6,000 other refugees here on this day. most don't have a plan. to help, the regional government has turned this massive convention center into a safe haven for up to 20,000 people.

many arrived sick, so there's medical care onsite. >> obviously, most of the people coming here are women and children. so we have a gynecology's office and for pregnant women, we can do diagnostics. and you can even give birth here, which we have already done a couple times. >> despite warsaw being the biggest center that receives refugees from ukraine, what you wont see anywhere around the city are tents or temporary housing. a number of refugees are going to a stadium where they can spend some time. they're generally then sent to a hostile or some sort of temporary accommodation. after a few days, they end uppen private accommodation, hosted by polls or they leave for other cities. many cities can be reached with the help of a temporary bus turninal sent up outside the convention hall. about 1,000 people leave each day as thousands more pour in.

some who arrive here like eve and her mom, hope to get as far away as possible. >> as we heard even russia wants to invade poland. that's horrifying. we're right here. so we see a lot of buses and just people who are going in really different countries in europe, like italy, everywhere. anywhere they can get just to escape all this. >> ali velshi, msnbc, warsaw. >> all right. and back here at home, inflation has been surging since before russia invaded ukraine. but there is no doubt the war has impacted that spike in commodity prices for the everyday american. why exactly is all of this happening? and when is it actually going to end inthat is the focus of a recent episode of the plain english podcast. listen to this. >> it's one thing to have a country like russia which exports like 10% of the world's

crude oil, to have that economy briefly stop exporting that much oil, and as a result, prices for barrels of oil go up 20%, 30%, but then maybe they might come back down as putin maybe withdraws from trying to siege kyiv or otherwise changes his policy. but what we have seen in past inflationary spirals is that the supply shock, the macro economic phenomenon, becoming a psychological phenomenon. people say if the price of bread and wages is going up 10% every month, i need to buy a lot of bread right now. i need to get out and get ahead of the economy, get ahead of these price increases and start spending as much money as possible. and if everyone starts feeling that way, then you suddenly have a huge surge of demand, which increases inflation even more. and then things become a little bit more unhinged. >> fascinating. so derrick thompson, staff

writer at the atlantic and host of the plain english podcast is joining us. appreciate we were able to get you up and going. i want to read poll numbers out. nbc news poll out on the economy. 83% of americans concerned about increased cost of goods and services. 82% concerned about nuclear weapons. and 74%, 3 out of 4 americans, say the u.s. will send american combat troops to fight in ukraine. they're worried about that as well. walk us through some of the best and worst case scenarios here as we're taking a look at total economic outlook. >> best case scenario is that this war ends relatively quickly, number one, and number two, an issue i talked about the podcast but wasn't in that quote is that the issues that we're seeing in china resolve themselves. china has shut down in part because of a covid wave in southern china. those issues resolve, and then for a variety of reasons, inflation begins to cool in the

u.s. supply chains begin to recover and demand comes down a little bit for some of the services and hard products in highest demand. that's the best case scenario. the worst case scenario is basically everything goes wrong. demand in the u.s. keeps going strong, which is good in a lot of way but bad for inflation. supply chains continue to be snarled, commodities because of the war in ukraine become continually elevated and we also have significant supply chain pressure from the shutdowns in china. you have all that together and i could absolutely see inflation is not going to stop at 7%, 8%, it could continue to som or 10%. later this year. >> can we just play a little bit more from your podcast in which you talk about how ukraine is actually faring in this war, and then we'll talk about it. >> the war is going very badly, and ukrainians are winning. they have prevented the assault on the capital. even the cities that the russians have captured or destroyed, they don't fully control. in the sense that they have not

created successful military regimes. there's some places that we don't know much about because they're cut off now. but none of the larger cities are under full russian control, not mariupol, not kharkiv, not kherson. so they have not succeeded in doing really any of the basic things they said they would do. >> you were speaking to anne applebaum there. it seems as if going into this thing, the ukrainian order, ukrainian military was underestimated. the russian army, russian military was overestimated. now it seems as if putin is making an about face, saying i'm just concerned about western ukraine, because ukraine could feezally be winning this war, holding off russian forces. >> yeah, and winning in by this definition means that ukraine would hold around kyiv, the capital. they would certainly keep the west. and they would fight russia to a standstill in the east and south, forcing putin to the bargaining table to maybe only carve off part of crimea or part of donbas, the region in the

east. this would be a fantastic scenario first and foremost for ukraine which is fighting its heart out against the russians, but to connect to theprieve yg question, it would be good news for the rest of the world. russia and ukraine account for 25% of the wheat exports. corn exports as well, 10% of those globally. so it would be fantastic for the global economy and for global welfare for the war to end, and for inflation specifically, u.s. inflation is driven up by a lot of factors but one factor is the upsurge in commodity prices that has happened in part as a result of this war. the sooner this war ends, the sooner you have inflationary pressures come down on commodities and the u.s. economy can continue to grow with inflation not at 8% or 7%, but closer to 3% or 2%. >> the sooner ukrainians can get back to their lives and more lives are saved. derrick thompson, thank you. make sure to tune in to plain english wherever you get your podcast. new episodes dropping every week. >> the latest from inside

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