tv The Mehdi Hasan Show MSNBC March 27, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
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he should have recused himself from the january 6th case. i'm not a lawyer, but you do not need to be a lawyer to know that that is true. look, i think this opens the door. and this won't make a lot of people happy, but this opens the door to a complex conversation. which is, dozen individuals spouses activity necessarily implicate the impartiality of the other spouse? and before we charge in, demanding impeachment, demanding recusal. i think we need to come to terms about what's our standard there is. >> i think we need to do that very soon. congressman, thank you for your time tonight, appreciate it. >> i am back with you now at the top of the hour, i'm mehdi hasan, and we continue our look at the global fight for democracy tonight. president joe biden is back in the u.s. tonight, back home from his trip to europe, where he met with nato leaders about doubling the alliances presence in eastern europe. as russia's war in ukraine shows no's line of abating.
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biden also seemed to advocate for a regime change in russia, when he went off script and said that putin quote, cannot remain in power. it remarked that his administration has been walking back every since, and that biden himself said he did not mean. earlier tonight when asked about it, but the centerpiece of his speech, the main message, the clash between democracy and autocracy, not just in ukraine, but globally and historically, take a listen. >> the darkness that drives autocracy is ultimately no match for the flame of liberty that lights the souls of people everywhere. time and again, history shows that some of the darkest moments, and the greatest progress follows. and history shows that this is a task of our time. the task of this generation. president biden was talking there of course about ukraine specifically. but when i hear that, i can't help but think what about here in america?
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because right now here in the u.s., the darkness seems to be prevailing. there is no good news on the american democracy front. sorry. absolutely none. and it is something that the american president has not spending that much time talking about. earlier this month, you will recall, joe biden stopped at his first of the state of the union address by talking about russia's war in ukraine. as with his trip to europe this week, we all support him and supporting ukraine, but then the president moved on to another topic completely. he didn't link ukraine's fight for democracy to the fight for democracy here in the u.s., to voting rights, that was buried much further down in his address to congress. why didn't he link them together? why waste such a valuable opportunity to point out that trumpism home is in many ways just a flipside of putin-ism abroad. it is not just his warsaw speech, or his state of the union attest, remember his virtual summit for democracy back in december when the white house might as well have been a glass house. president biden seems more
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comfortable talking about the problems that other nations are having, holding on to their democratic forms of government than our own. because the u.s. right now is perilously close to flipping into autocracy. i mean, what else do you call it when the wife of a supreme court justice sense techs must just to a white house chief of staff forcing him to overturn the presidential election results, and lock up his opponents in guantánamo bay. to a chief of staff who is now facing scrutiny about his own voter registration status in the 2020 election, and that supreme justice voted as the sole defendant, 1 to 8, to block the public from knowing more about the january six insurrection, including, now we, know any potential role his wife may have had in. that is what is happening in america right now. if it were happening in every other country, we will know exactly what they call it. joe biden would know to hold someone about it. americans like to think about the u.s. as the world's
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shiniest example of a democracy, when in fact the u.s. is today listed as a flawed democracy. -- ouch. and the brennan center says -- to pass more restrictive voting laws with legislators in at least 27 states having introduced, or filed, or carried over 250 bills with restrictive provisions in january this year compared to 75 such bills in 24 states in january last year. that doesn't even include the new bill under consideration in georgia that would allow state police to launch voting fraud investigations, without a referral from the secretary of state's office. it would also make way for public inspections of ballots, probably no accident than that the latest stop for the donald trump potential grievances store over the weekend was
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northeastern atlanta where the former president criticize the republican governor of that state for refusing to overturn the 2020 election results, and looked fondly ahead to the next elections. >> we are just eight months away from potentially the most important midterm victory in america that has -- and we need a landslide so big they cannot rig it. we don't want them to reggae, or steal it. we cannot let that happen. because this country cannot take another election like we just had. >>. . . ,. . . .
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. ,,,,. ,,, -- for more on where things stand, and where we go from here i'm joined again by jason stanley professor philosophy at yale university and author of how fascism works. and i'm also joined by msnbc political analyst eddie gold, chair of the department of african american studies of princeton university. thank you all for being here. jason, let me start with you. what accounts for this disparity between how joe biden talks about democracy abroad, versus democracy at home? why can't handle the democrat clearly draw a line between what is happening in ukraine, and the need to safeguard our own democracy here at home. >> well you can't lead
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internationally when our home you have this crisis. joe biden, president biden is trying to lead internationally. putin is the leader of this global attack, this fascist attack on democracy. the latest in trump and trumpism are clear. and in order to lead biden has to pretend that we are a better democracy than we currently are. >> adi, an addition to georgia where i mentioned black voters are having their votes the, they feel it will be difficult for them to vote according to that poll, there's also texas where voters are already being disenfranchised in the recent primary there. some 23,000 mail-in ballots were tossed out under the new voter restriction laws. almost all of them for failing to meet the laws of voter i.d. requirements. why is this not being talked about more? i feel like it is only
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forgotten and ignored, and only partly because of ukraine. >> well, it has a lot to do with the difficulty around passing the john lewis voting bill, and the other bill with kristen sinema and joe manchin not having a way forward. and then, you combine that with the fact that black voters might be satisfied with the nomination of judge brown jackson so we can pivot away from the question of voting, focus our tension on delivering the promise of having a black woman on the supreme court, and maybe that constituency will be satisfied. but we still haven't heard a robust path forward around the questions of voting in the country. and this is precisely, i think, consistent with -- because it seems to me that he had the perfect opportunity to join -- in some ways to -- another campaign where the double and sleepy campaign
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nazism abroad and defeat jim crow at home. he had an opportunity in that moment, in the state of the union to talk about defending democracy abroad and defending democracy at home. but instead, he kind of slipped into that worry about jimmy carter. we can't be too dark and column about the american domestic situation, otherwise we might jeopardize our standing with the american electorate. >> yeah, that is always an issue. you remind me, adi, there's one line, and ruth, let me bring you in here as well, there is one minus six in my head from when it emerged late last year that donald trump may have known earlier that he had covid, and that debate with joe biden, did he risk joe biden's health. when you make of these revelations from? trump and biden says, i try not to think about it too often. ruth, that is a mistake, isn't it? donald trump did not disappear from planet earth, he went into a self imposed exile in florida, where he continues to challenge
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the election result, what his next attack on the election, continues to undermine democracy at the state level, we know what we would call this in another country? we know joe biden would call it. but when he sees it in america, i'm not sure he sees the same thing. >> you know, he ran as a unifier. joe biden, he said very clearly, that is what he wanted to be. and so, i think you perhaps thinks that he can reach across, or votives by taking this particular stance. might not mentioning trump so that perhaps he would will him away, because we have the strong man, they don't disappear when they -- even if they are voted out, they kind of remain there. so i think that he is trying to strangle this line between not giving this person who dominated the media more oxygen, because there is some evidence that trump rallies are less
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attended. his true social media thing isn't going anywhere. so perhaps biden thinks that is a good counter propaganda strategy. but it is dangerous because they after day, our rights are being taken away a home, and there is a plan that dates back to trump trying to overturn the election. george thomas's wife -- and we have to pay attention to that. that is not going away. >> it is certainly not going away. jason, let me ask you this. if you and i have spoken this time last week, i think we would've agreed that critical race theory was going to raise its head at the senate confirmation hearings with judge ketanji brown jackson, but i'm not sure either of us would have quite anticipated the extent and nature of the way did. have a listen. >> did you agree with this book that is being taught with kids
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that babies are racist? >> senator, i do not believe that any child should be made to feel, as though they are racist -- >> you serve on a board of a school that teaches condoned honors, five year old children, that they can choose their gender and teaches them about so-called, white privilege. you have made clear that you believe the judges must consider critical race theory, when deciding how the senate criminal defendants. is that your personal hidden agenda to incorporate critical race theory into our legal system? >> -- jason, it gets worse each time we hear it. they do not pretend anymore that there is any substance to any of this nonsense. explain to me what you think the republicans were doing
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their, and how it fits into our broader discussion about democracy? >> so, liberal democracy is a system that guarantees that minority rights. that is the liberal democracy. what we are seeing now, in the united states, and across the world with this far-right attack on liberal democracy is this fearmongering that minorities are going to take over, that minorities are going to go after your children, that liberalism is going to give minorities an equal role in society, and take over. so it is -- they also link this to child pornography, so qanon, so what we are seeing is this fearmongering about schools and children. the liberals are trying to replace white dominance, essentially. we have to be clear, as
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professor said, this threatens america standing in the world as a democracy, because the rest of the world knows that america's achilles heel as white supremacy. and so, if we don't -- wet putin wants to do is say, it is not a democracy, it is really a white supremacist state. and this is just falling right into that kind of line, internationally, weakening us. >> it is so important to hear you say that, because i worry, and i was just speaking to a member of congress in the last hour, that a lot of our elected representatives don't want to draw these lines. they don't want to connect these dots. everything is treated in isolation rather than, as you point out, one big vision. the nonsense about pedophiles, the nonsense about critical race theory, the liberalism, and then democracy, and ruth, i just want to make an obvious why here that others that made, but i want to play to you a clip of vladimir putin speaking
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the other day on some issues that sound very familiar to people who follow the american way, have a listen. >> -- >> so called gender freedoms, the cancellation of jackie welling, putin could be a member of the house republican caucus speaking like that could be not? >> yes. as the world mobilizes against russia, in favor of ukraine, it makes the gop sees alignment and so many things, with global autocracies even more. in fact, in the hearings of judge jackson, as jason mentioned, trying to say that she was soft on child pornography, that not only can
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execute qanon, so we have conspiracy theories being advanced. by holly and senator graham. but also, this is a global talking point. it's not just for pizzagate, where hillary clinton had pedophiles, etc. this is a way for tagging democrats in the united states. but in hungary, there is now where an election in a few days, there is a referendum also that is trying to impose more stringent anti lgbtq laws. one of the main arguments was that homosexuality is length to pedophilia. and it is very important for americans and goes back to the connections that by needs to draw more strongly, that these are global right talking points. and the gop every single day and its political practice in america. >> yes, making those
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connections are so important. i'm so glad to have you through here. eddie, did we see democracy in america go backwards just in this last week? just in the senate hearings? we've never had a true democracy until the 1960s. we've never had a multi racial democracy where everybody was equal until the 1960s. talking about the history. i feel like multiracial democracies going backwards in this country right now and can't would be a democracy if we are not a multi racial democracy? >> right. to your point mighty, we have not been a multi racial democracy. and i have to put it with the passing of the voting rights act in 1965. and we know that there are forces to undo it. reagan authorized the reporter shun of the section five. and in 2013 fulfilling his
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vision. i won't say that the hearings didn't represent a backwards turn, i think they represented the moment that we are in. and it is just an example that we are in the midst of a betrayal. the promise of hundreds of thousands of people showing up after george floyd was murdered. across race, across class, across ethnicity, in the middle of a pandemic, the promise of this more reckoning. contained within, it we trail. in the midst of that betrayal right now. we are seeing. not only in terms of debates around american history, but we are seeing it in efforts to defend the vote. and we saw in the supreme court with judge ketanji brown-jackson. >> yes we did, jason, eddie, ruth, please stick around there's much more to discuss. i also want to talk about one republican member of the house's plan to bring back donald trump as speaker believe it or not.
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and yesterday in georgia where he pushed out his lies and conspiracies, there were plans for his return for national politics even sooner than 2024. i have a listen, republican congressman matt gates had to say. >> give us the ability to fire nancy pelosi. take back the majority. and impeach joe biden and i'm going to nominate donald trump or speaker of the united states house of representatives ruth, will congressman gates said counts kind of insane. we can laugh, shake his head, but it is legal, it's not actually impossible to bring donald trump as the house speaker. we can say that is crazy, that is not going to happen, which we've done before. i know something that you and i have discussed before, the idea of right wingers. far-right ideologues, autocrats
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putting out crazy ideas. the rest of us just laughing until they happen. i worry that is happening here. >> well in fact, yes. it can seem crazy, because the last person to be interested in any rules of the house, or rules of anything, is donald trump. he has no interest in learning. probably hasn't read the constitution and he thinks he's above it. but what is really scary, if you have immersed yourself for years and the heads of autocrats like i have, what is really scary is the idea that he would be there. i think they think he would not be there for very long. because as speaker, the line of succession to the head of state's very short. and they would start immediately impeaching or god knows what. the key thing with people who think like donald trump, who are completely lawless, is that nothing is beyond the bounds of imagination.
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and that has been what has hindered people and for 100 years in realizing that people like autocrats can cost. and you have to go into their mentality and realize that nothing is off limits for them and i would be frightened if donald trump became speaker of the house. >> eddie let me ask you this, when we talk about the future of democracy. there is a pushback for liberals, a lot of moderate centrists, even people on the left, who say calm down. america democracy survive 2020, donald trump was defeated. the guardrails held. turnout increased, what are we worried about? it's fine, what do you say for that argument? >> i come out of a tradition that has not been so tethered
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to the idea of the democracy being achieved. i come out of a tradition mehdi that has experienced the blunt of america's failure to live up to its principles. and the idea that american democracy is so strong, so resilient, presumes that it has always been the case. and we know for much of our existence and i responded to the matt gates kind of sound. and i'm clear about that, i'm not concluding that these folks are not dangerous. and the most toxic combination we've faced in u.s. history, in my view, when it comes to matters such as these. matters around race, matters around democracy, is the combination of the kind of rabbit races, the loud racist. and the loud liberal moderate who's afraid of going too far. it is the combination of those
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to that arrest substance of change. that typically keep us from actually aggressively defending our democracy in the face of assaults that we currently face now. >> yes indeed. jason, let me ask you a version of what i just asked. you and i have been speaking together about these issues for several years now. first time you're nice poke about this, many years ago, before even joined msnbc, we talked about fascism, your book on fascism. there was a time where there was only a few people like you and me saying the f-word out loud. do you think that we are this in a different place today, in 2022, given everything we have seen and learned. this week discovering that the wife of a sitting supreme court justice, the same supreme court justice who was the sole justice to vote in donald trump's favor in terms of infecting him from investigation. sending text to the white house, saying put the biden family in guantánamo bay on trial. very crazy qanon as
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authoritarian stuff. are we in a different place now? do you think there's still too much complacency? >> i think there is too much complacency. i think first of all, we have to see that fascism has a legal face. we are now seeing, anti protest laws, sweeping across the nation. a electoral awe, disenfranchising large numbers of voting. desantis appointing a special police force to a nonexistent problem of voter fraud. and when things become legal, when the fascist framework becomes legal, when stealing a election becomes legal. as these laws are going to make it so, that is going to feed complacency. and as professor said, we have a history, that hitler actually looked to for inspiration. which is our racist jim crow history.
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and when you look at what is happening with the anti crt laws attacking schools, with the attacks on our election, we are back to an american past. and that feels familiar for many americans. and that feeds complacency as well. >> it does indeed, and i worry at a time like this that it is the modern democratic party. is the biden white house up for this fight, i'm still not sure about the answer on that. jason stanley, ruth, eddie junior, thank you tonight, appreciate your analysis, a fascinating and important if depressive conversation, thank you. ing and important if still ahead, what we know about the russian missile attack in lviv, but first richard louis is here with the headlines. hello richard. headlines after a wildfire broke out, there in the south, south of the city, the fire forced nearly 20,000 people to flee
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their homes. fortunately, conditions have started to improve, and the fire is already 35% contained. now the second black box from the china eastern airlines boeing 737 that crash last week, that was found on sunday. the box contains flight data recorder that will help investigators determine why the plane went down. all 132 on board died. and the food and drug administration is expected to authorize a second covid booster vaccine, it comes amid early signs of another covid wave as the ba.2 omicron sub variant spreads worldwide. two officials tell nbc news the authorization could happen as early as next week. more of the -- after this break. this break shakes, please. (grandmother) make it three. (young woman) three? (grandmother) did you get his number? (young woman) no, grandma! grandma!! (grandmother) excuse me! (young woman vo) some relationships get better with time. that's why i got a crosstrek.
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understand that within the last few hours you heard estimates go off where you are. what can you tell us? >> that is right. air science went off several hours, ago it has become quite a normality here, they go with alarming regularity and a few hours after that we got the all clear. that doesn't necessarily mean we are -- lviv that this place is being targeted, their arms covered quite a wide range of area. we heard reports that a neighboring province had been hit, we can't confirm that. so that may have triggered the air alarms off here. but as you know, lviv was hit yesterday, that is when people hear very anxious. that was the biggest hit closest to the city center, just two miles from where i'm standing. the russians hit massive fuel depots there, they hit another government depots building. they hit them with long range precision missiles that caused
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extensive damage, fires were burning for hours. the russian damages -- fuel to ukrainian troops, on the east of ukraine. and that made people very anxious here. we spoke to a lot of people here in lviv, they wouldn't say the piece has been shattered here, but the security was certainly partnered for them. it made a lot of people wonder how long would love have remain a sanctuary, a safe haven, a refuge for all of those people who have been displaced from the east of the country and felt relatively safe here in the west. now have to tell, you it does still feel safe, but as many ukrainians speak to, they say putin is capable of doing anything. he bombs churches, children's hospitals, apartment buildings, so this place may not be safe going forward as well. >> nbc's aly a rosy, live in ukraine for us. thank you for your reporting.
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please do stay safe. coming up, justice clarence thomas should be impeached, but will democrats go through with it? not likely. i will share my thoughts on all of that next. stay with us. xt stay with us new dove men stress-relief body wash... with a plant-based adaptogen, helps alleviate stress on skin. so you can get back in sync. new dove men. a restorative shower for body and mind. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure.
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position after a bombshell report uncovered text messages that detail the extent to which she had colluded with a white house chief of staff to overthrow the government of the united states. a source confirmed the veracity of the texts to nbc news. release the kraken she wrote to mark meadows in the days after the 2020 election. save us from the left taking america down. very well did release the kraken, as trump and his allies proceeded to file thousands of ridiculous lawsuits to target election results in the country. and the hope that it would reach the supreme court and genie's husband, justice clarence thomas. now, if you thought that johnny 's activism, or more her efforts to undermine democracy, pushed justice thomas to recuse himself in any and all stop the steal cases before the court, well then you must be new to the united states. glenn conflicts of interest. amid the madhouse that is our
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63 conservative dominated highest court. justice thomas was perfectly happy, first in february 21, adjudicating on a case filed by pennsylvanian republicans that sought to disqualify some mail-in ballots. then in january of last year, was perfectly content to be the lone vote against congressional efforts to obtain records from the trump white house related to the january 6th attack. in my view, his refusal to recuse means that he should be impeached. put aside for a moment the fact that justice thomas has been accused of sexual harassment. put aside the fact that he is an ideological radical who spent his career floating in order to bolster his own interpretation of the constitution and his refusal to recuse himself from trump related cases, while knowing where his wife was up to be from behind the scenes. that alone requires impeachment. demand impeachment. remember, there is no alternative to impeachment here. supreme court judges are exempt from the usual conflict of
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interest rules and ethical guidelines that other federal judges are bound by. there are no cutesy slaps on the wrist available here that democrats are so often fond of using. impeachment is the sole remedial measure laid out by the constitution. and to those defeatist moderates to immediately answer with lines that we do not have the votes to convict them. i say, who cares. impeachment happens in the house and democrats have a majority to do that and they can do that tomorrow morning if they wanted to. as for conviction in the senate, with a two trump impeachment efforts all for not, simply because the man was not removed from office. of course not. impeachment is a moral stand once character and reputation and one that will sit there forever as a warning to successors. and it is the only method, the only tool of accountability that we have. clarence thomas needs to be held to account. yet, where are the democrats on impeachment? aside from ilhan omar and a
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couple of others, they're a wall. now, in the last few days a bunch of top congressional democrats have released strongly worded letters, condemning judge promises ethical lapses and calling on him to recuse himself from future cases related to the 2020 election. how quaint. i'm sorry to be the want to break it to them, but when democracy is literally under attack. when there is a rolling to being carried out by the right, strongly worded letters are not enough. let me ask you this, if congressional republicans in 2024 discovered justice can paunchy brown jackson's husband was texting the biden white house chief of staff, urging him to prevent the reelection of donald trump and calling on him to send the trump family to cato before trial, which you think they would do? because democrats, i can bet you this, just based on their performance this week at the senate judiciary committee, republicans would be doing a lot more than just sending a strongly worded letter.
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the eastern donbas region, where pro russian separatists have been fighting for the last eight years. for his part, president zelenskyy admitted today that it is quote, impossible to force russia out of its country completely. across the, world the undermining of democracy has gone hand in hand with internal division. we've seen the rise of, religious ethnic, political polarization, including of course here in the united states. much of the authoritarian trend here at home is driven by a minority of white conservatives angry at the browning of america, and so much of the voting disenfranchising zing is targeting black and brown communities. so how protons are divided democracy and conflict. my next guest has studied civil wars around the globe for 30 years. barbara walters a political science professor at the university of california san diego and adviser to the cia and author of the recent book, how civil war star and how to stop them. thank you so much for joining me this evening, how much has ethnic division and civil conflict in your view
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contributed to the undermining of democracy on a global level, how much is it about internal fault lines within countries like russia or ukraine or >> india or, brazil or here in the u.s.. that is a really great question, it used to be actually that civil wars didn't generally breakdown along ethnic lines. if you think about the civil war in the 60s and 70s, in nicaragua, el salvador, mozambique, these were fought over ideological lines. usually a left to right divide. that has been changing to the point where now in the 21st century, majority of the civil wars are fought between different ethnic religious or racial groups. so that is definitely changing. it is not though, because countries are ethnically necessarily ethnically divided. it is because what political scientists call ethnic entrepreneurs, these are politicians who have figured out that they can actually
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catapult themselves to power if they begin to play on fears, on insecurities, if they begin to create the perception of threat under those conditions people tend to gravitate towards their own ethnic religious or racial groups. for reasons that we don't entirely understand but it is more the fact that ethnic entrepreneurs have figured out that this is a really good tool for them to use. >> so, professor, can there be any long term solutions to the conflict in ukraine without resolving some of those underlying internal ethnic divisions? putin has done so well to exploit those since 2014, and is now trying to use to justify his invasion. >> so the civil war in ukraine has been going on since 2014, and it had all of the risk factors that we know that tend to lean towards civil war. ukraine at the time wasn't a
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democracy, it was a country whose government was only partially democratic, in fact it had been a full democracy, but it had been backsliding. it also had a population who had divided themselves politically, so the political parties were divided along not only ethnic lines, but in to some degree linguistic and geographical lines as well. so the question is, what do you do in a situation like this? that is not going away in ukraine. western ukraine will always be much more heavily russia leaning, and contains a large proportion of its population who came from russia in the last 50 years, that our russian speakers. i'm sorry that is eastern europe in. and western ukraine, it's going to be much more heavily ethnically ukrainian, and those are the citizens who want to join more closely with europe and the west. and, in some respects, i can
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imagine a scenario where the war ends. you are already starting to see a little bit of this right now. putin just decided that he is going to shift his, what seemed to be his war aims some trying to capture the capital, and instead having more-limited aims of retaining control of the donbas region, which is this eastern very heavily russian-speaking ethnically russian area of eastern ukraine. and i think his aims are now going to be not only to gain control of that, but to incorporate it into russia. and in some respects, that might not be a bad outcome. where, ethnic ukrainians, ukrainians who live in western ukraine which is the wealthier more western leaning part of ukraine, say, okay. you can have that. like they said with crimea, and then in some respects, they get
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rid of troublesome pro-russian part of their country. so, it is going to be a very hard for them to push russian soldiers out of ukraine entirely, but that part of ukraine might -- >> so -- >> might be expendable. >> whether ukrainian sign off on that. we talked earlier with a ukrainian lawmaker -- what ukrainians would agree to of course. let me ask you this before we run out of time. you say in your book, that we are close to a civil war here in america, closer than ever, before closer than the last war. i have to ask, how close this close? >> well, if the task force that i was on was allowed to live in the united states, countries that had these two risk factors, countries that were a democracy and whose population divided along ethnic religious, and or rachel lines, if they had those two features we put them on a
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watchlist, we call it a watchlist. we consider them a high risk of political violence. and the united states reached that point at the end of 2020. so by the end of the trump administration's term, in office, the united states was considered -- had been downgraded, our democracy had been downgraded for the past five years prior to that, we were considered an anocracy and one of our two major parties was behaving much like an ethnic faction. >> quick last question, 30 seconds left, when you say we are close to civil war, you don't mean the 1860 is types of all war of armies fighting a battlefields? >> no, no. absolutely not. i think one of the reasons why americans have a hard time believing that a second civil war is possible, it's because they are thinking of that type of civil war. that 21st century type of civil war, especially in countries like the united states where you have a powerful central government, and a very powerful military, they don't look like that at all. they were constand like what we
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call insurgencies, they tend to be decentralized, fought by multiple factions that are operating, clandestinely around the country. these factions whether they are malicious or paramilitary groups have no desire to engage the u.s. military, and they will use unconventional tactics like terrorism and brutal warfare. >> it is scary what you are saying, i'm glad you are sounding the alarm bell, but barbara walter, thank you so much for your time and analysis tonight. we appreciate it. >> it is my pleasure. thank you very much. >> thanks for watching all of, you thank you for watching the global fight for democracy tonight. each and every one of you have a moment to play in that fight for democracy. i will be right back here next sunday are a pm eastern, it can catch me monday through thursday as well. 7 pm eastern on the choice, on nbc streaming channel peacock. for now, for me, goodnight. r now, for me, goodnight new dove men stress-relief body wash...
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