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lynching. we'll bring you more as it unfolds. we begin with brand-new blockbuster reporting on two of the biggest outstanding questions around the january 6th insurrection. one, what exactly was the ex-president doing on january 6th? and, two, what do he and his white house know about the possibility for violence that day? on that first question, washington post and "cbs news" are out today with portions, big chunks of the trump white house record that are now in the hand of the january 6th select committee. they raise more questions when they answer when it comes to the activities of the ex-president and his aides and allies. building on reporting in the "new york times" and nbc news and other places about the records, the holes in them, that show no calls to or from donald trump for hours on january 6th. robert costa find the call logs show a very clear, a very big gap that lasts precisely seven

hours and 37 minutes. and it is no coincidence, it's right in the middle of the day. here's what was happening during those hours. the president gave a speech. he told his supporters to quote fight like hell. after which his supporters did just that, they did an attack that forced mike pence and his family and law makers to run into hiding. it ultimately resulted in seven deaths and more than 140 injured and badly beaten police officers. we know the urging of donald trump's aides ultimately filmed a video, telling the mob he quote loved them, but to go home, it took several takes to get that out of him. we know the ex-president spoke to senator tommy tuberville and house gop leader kevin mccarthy during that window, that missing window. during that call, mccarthy, he allegedly said this, well, kevin, i guess these people are

more excited about the election than you are, these people refer to the insurrectionists. but according to white house records, the president didn't make any of those calls. he didn't make a single phone call during that chunk of time. regarding this gap in the logs, the washington report says the house panel is commune indicating whether he communicated through pack channels and burner phones. one law maker says the committee is investigating a quote possible coverup of the official white house records from that day. the locks do reveal the ex-president had calls to many of the key figures involved in the insurrection. the lawmakers who wanted to disrupt and delay the certification of the electoral college vote, to people like steve bannon, to predicted on his podcast that this would happen. quote, all hell will break loose. those people spoke twice on january 6th. which leads us to the second big moving question.

did team trump know that january 6th would most certainly turn violent? ultimately deadly? the "new york times" is reporting that dojs and the select committee are looking into the comments for the spark for the violence that would take place that day. they're focusing on a december 19th tweet, that urged trump supporters to come to d.c. on the 6th. be there, it will be wild in all caps. it became a call to arms. extremist groups almost immediately celebrated trump's twitter message, which they wildly interpret as a message to descend on the city in force. the groups sprang into action. extremists began to set up encrypted commune categories channels, acquire protective gear and, in one case, prepare heavily armed quick reaction forces to be staged outside of

washington. and that is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends, msnbc legal analyst dan goldman, u.s. district attorney for the southern district of new york. former council in donald trump's first impeachment trial. from politico betsy woodriffe swann is back and "new york times" congress am reporter luke -- whose byline is on that stunning new piece of reporting about tweets under scrutiny. luke is here. take me inside the reporting on what investigators are looking at this tweet specifically for, it's nexus between ultimate violence and who carried it out, it sound like? >> yeah, it's really streaking. if you look at the court cases coming out with defendant after defendant who is a part of these militia groups, who is charged with attacking the capital on january 6th, this tweet was almost a clarion call to them.

every time there is reaction and it's from text messages or group chats or message boards, where they see this tweet by the president as a call to arms. and if you look at cases with the percenters, the oath keepers, the guy that went to trial that was entered into conviction. they are focusing on that tweet. supporters of the president will say, he never called for violence. but it was widely interpreted by the people who actually attacked the capitol as a call to violence. we thought it was useful for the readers to lay that out very methodically, defendant after defendant, this tweet was showing up again and again if their cases. >> it has an echo to donald trump telling the proud boys to stand by when he was requested by chris wallace in the general election debate.

we had an aimed debate, it didn't matter, what the plowed boys heard and memorial eased in tee shirts and baseball caps and encrypted chats and no so encrypted chats was a call to arms. that's precisely, the difference here is that this tweet president eseeded the deadly insurrection. tell me the significance of luke's reporting. >> it's very significant. i think what should be added to that is the pattern that donald trump had to have seen and known about of when he would make a similar, programs not as explicit call to arms. but he would say, go, i think right after the election, he told people in arizona to go protest at the voting booths or the locations and he had supporters who went and did that. on december 12th, a week before this tweet, there was the huge or sizable maga march in d.c.

by this point he had to have known and he certainly did know that when he made statements like this, there were enough supporters of his who have shown in the past to listen to them to take them at his word and to understand the code and one of the pieces i thought of the quotes that was so important is when one of the militia groups said, he can't be fully explicit, this is as close as he will get. and interpreting that this was going to be a violent coup attempt. and so, you know, a lot of this from a prosecution standpoint is tough to prove. but the pattern and practice is essential to understanding why all these militia groups on december 19th called it to be a

call to arms. >> let me press to you broad -- broaden the lens for us. we often ask folks like yourself, what is doj doing? one of the huge bodies of doj's work are these cases of the insurrectionism themselves. some of what we know of the insurrectionists heard from donald trump is in their court filings. it's in there, the words of their defense counsels. you hear it play out in court. what you are talking about is sort of an example of that work being either built upon or borrowed by the 1/6 congressional committee. let me read from the contejt report from mr. scovino and no vara, on december 6, 2020, is same day mr. trump tweeted, big protest in d.c. on january 6. , be there, will be wild.

users on posts on the donald win, the general consensus among users was that trump had usually tweeted permission to disregard the law in support of him. for example, one user wrote, trump can't exactly openly tell you to revolt. that is the closest it will get. that's the piece. i want to press to you close the circle for us. we know that liz cheney has read from the criminal statute. we know from luke's reporting and other places that the committee intends to gather enough evidence to send criminal referrals to the committee. how does closing this circuit between trump's words and the violence move that further to a criminal referral around the violence specifically? >> well, i think that it's still probably not the thrust of what doj would be looking at. it will be an important element and you could introduce evidence

of by these witnesses if they were willing to testify to say that i interpreted his statement to be x, y or z. it's not this positive necessarily. but it certainly would go to the weight of the evidence. i think the opinion that came out yesterday from the los angeles district judge, which found by a preponderance of the evidence, donald trump, john eastman and others created crimes related to the january 6th, including a conspiracy to defraud the united states by trying to interfere in the lawful election and process of counting the votes is as big a clarion call as you will find to the department of justice that they need to be focused aggressively on this aspect, the could aspect in the effort to overturn the election separate and apart from january 6th if you will find. if i am the select committee, i'd tread very carefully about before i start making referrals to the department of justice.

because inevitably, the defense will be, this is a partisan witch hunt as it has been throughout donald trump's career. the select committee does not want to give any credence to that argument. a political referral puts political pressure on the department of just the is to investigate the effort of what the district court said to defraud the united states by trying to overturn the election. and there is no need for it. it's all out there in plain sight. a federal judge, a neutral independent objective federal judge has determined that it is more likely than not, which is not the standard for a criminal case, but still nonetheless is a significant finding that donald trump did commit crimes. so i think this aspect of it is certainly important to the january 6th committee. the violence aspect of it. but in the larger doj investigation, which i certainly hope is moving forward, it would

be one piece among very many to establish the intent of donald trump and his intent, essentially, to interfere with a lawful election and overturn a lawful election. >> if i can just play devil's advocate for a moment. when you were conducting the impeachment investigation, donald trump was so cognizant of every aspect of it. they were trying to out the missile blower when robert mueller was investigating the campaign ties, we knew every blow mostly because trump and rudy leaked it to reporters covering it. what makes you hope or think if there is any possibility donald trump's inner circle is under investigation by doj? >> well, you make a very good point. and i have been lamenting what i perceive to be at a minimum a very slow methodical investigation and at worst potentially no investigation at all. and it's not because the

department of justice, itself, would be releasing information that we would find out about it. it's because as you point out, the defense to trump, bannon, by trump, bannon, all of those associates will be a very vocal, loud and public defense of a political partisan witch hunt. they'll turn this into complete chaotic political game in an effort to defeat the department of justice. so, if they were under investigation by the department of justice, i think we would know about it from them. not from anyone else. so my concern is that they're not. and that there is no significant investigation beyond january 6th and its sort of metes and bounds

of the insurrection. one is that opinion by the judge. the other is a request by the department of justice for significantly more funding, including 131 lawyers to work on january 6th cases. it's worth noting that 750 cases is a three amount of work for the department of justice. that's more than most u.s. attorneys offices in this country charge in a single year. so it is a herculean task. every defendant needs to be treated individually. so we cannot underscore how significant the work load is. but, hopefully, that i can get some relief and free up some very experienced prosecutors to really start diving into the coup attempt. they have to do that. >> maybe they can ask liz cheney for recommendations. becky, i want to bring you in on this violence question. you had some first, it might have been your scoop of reporting of the individual in charge of homeland security at the local level, d.c., mr. den el harvin. he was warning of a potential

mass casualty event. so at least one person saw donald trump's tweet that we know from luke and his colleagues reporting is under scrutiny by doj and the select committee as the impetus, the match for the violence. at least one law enforcement official saw it the very same way. i know you have done reporting on extremist groups. what is your sense about this spread of the investigation? >> look, you have to think doj prosecutors and fbi prosecutors working on these cases have to be kind of kicking themselves as they go through all the materials that they're putting in the court filings. his colleagues will highlight it. while much of the material is non-public, encrypted communication channels and chats, a whole lot of it is, the whole lot of the violence on january 6th was very much planned publicly. it was planned in plain sight.

the donald dot win was a public forum. it was not difficult no getting a says about that. they weren't particularly selective about the characters participating in that online community, shall we see? the fact that there was so much public planning that happened prior to january 6th, where people connected with no extremist groups with known violent people, were explicitly talking about engaging in a violent attack, but there still wasn't the level of support around the capital building that should have been there. looking back, more than a year later, it remains mind-boggling the level of security failure in addition to so many other mind-boggling pieces of this whole story, so for the investigation, there is no question that one piece of this is how directly do the lines exist between trump's treats and the violence that happened that day. it is pretty clear those lines

are direct and additionally what changes have people in the intelligence space made in the wake of january 6th to make sure this doesn't happen again? we know extremism still exists. we know extremists are capable of mobilizing and being persistent in their efforts to oppose the lawful operations of the u.s. government. we know much of these people, a lot of the people on january 6th have been arrested. they haven't all been. we know there are still all these threads in american society that have not gone away. that's another key question for the select committee. what security changes have been made and are we genuinely safer than we were on january 5th and january 6th? >> you know, the congressional committee imparts that urgency he is talking about in every single interaction the contempt last night in the 8:00 hour is no exception. the reporting that i think everyone is chewing on today is

something that, luke, i think robert costa advanced from some reporting you had originally about donald trump's pension, producing aide phones and burner phones and what not. i will put up the people that spoke to donald trump january 6th before and after this gap that they were reporting about. what is striking to me is it read like maybe a trump campaign christmas party list. steve bannon, rudy guiliani, mark meadows, stephen miller. nick lina. david purdue, unidentified person, scovino. on and on. there is no indication that one at any point in what we know before and after this gap donald trump called anyone about securing the gap at all? there is no evidence he called anyone about security vice president, no evidence he called anyone about securing the

capital. and we know this is not a white house that sits on good news. what's in the gap? >> yeah. i mean, the gap is really unexplained right now. we, as we reported last month, there is lots of different explanations for why this gap exists and credit to "the washington post" and cbs nassau for laying out exactly how long it was, seven-and-a-half hours is a very long time to have no record of any call. you know, as we've discussed, there is competing theories for what could have happened here. donald trump was known to use other people's phones. some people called dan scovino if they wanted to get the president on the line. he was going back and forth and went to the residence and the oval office. so, anyway, it's still very much a matter of investigation why these calls were not recorded, calls we know about. but i do think they show just how much donald trump and his allies were reaching out to members of congress that day to

try to prevent the certification of the election. as you highlighted, he calls tommy tuberville as the capitol is under siege and tries to encourage him to object to the certification of the election. rudy guiliani calls after 150 police officers have been assaulted and again asks for a delay. so what we do see from the calls shows, i think, that donald trump was very much personally involved that day in trying to halt the certification of joe biden's victory to try to cling to power and yes, it's important with they weren't recorded, if there is a document somewhere that has them. we don't know the answers. what we do know is how personally trump was in trying to stay in power that day.

>> it seems like the question is committee is getting at is was this some sort of deliberate effort to blackout a big chunk of time or to switch to burner phones or to switch, trump says i have no idea what a burner phone is. we'll see. thank you so much for starting us off. when we come back, we'll put those questions to a committee member. the january 6th committee putting increasing pressure on attorney general merritt garland's doj to do something, so it refers to former trump allies to the justice department for criminal contempt of congressional subpoenas. committee member zoe lofgren is next. plus, major developments at peace negotiation today. could signs of diplomatic progress be real this time? perhaps clearing the way for a meeting between the leaders of

ukraine and russia? we'll talk the latest reporting. there has been promise of a drawback in russian military activity around ukraine's capital kiev. the world is watching. all those stories and more after a quick break. stay with us. pleased. e*trade now from morgannley.

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. the department of justice has a duty to act on this referral and others we have sent. without enforcement of congressional subpoenas, there is no oversight. >> in the united states of america, no one is above the law. this committee is doing its job.

the department of justice needs to do theirs. >> i will echo what my colleagues have already said, more bluntly, attorney general garland, do your job so that we can do ours. >> it's a riveting hearing last night that was the january 6th select committee vote on those contempt referrals for mr. scovino and navarro. members expressed, should we call it impatience, bordering on frustration with the justice department last night during that vote, to hold those two in contempt. it is our privilege now to bring in a member of that committee, congresswoman zoe lofgren of california. congresswoman, i watched that. and it's clear that you all knew what you were going to say and it was undeniable and you couldn't miss but most of you maid this point about justice department's role and i think

there is this missed perception, maybe, that norms, snap back when you stop acting like bill barr and it seems the committee is saying norms snap back when the rule of law means something again. is that a message that you are all trying to transcend? >> i think so and certainly, the former president's associates have basically thumbed their nose at the rule of law. it's important that not allow to continue. we do not take these referrals lightly as i'm sure you know from watching the proceedings last night. we spent months and months and months with these individuals trying to get them to come in, talking to them, or their lawyers. and they in the end, they just walked away and if the rule of law means something, you can't allow that to happen.

>> congresswoman, i think it also bears pointing out how accommodating you have been and how many people have cooperated. we focus so much on the outliers who don't. but you've spent a good chunk of time with kayleecenany. what are your expectations for the jared kushner meet something. >> well, as you know, we don't comment on individuals coming in. but which do expect all witnesses to be honest and opened with what they know the committee had horde from hundreds and hundreds of people who have been honest and spoken to us. it's helped fill in the picture frankly of what led up to they ariot january 6th. the coup that was attempted. judge hardest decision in california earlier this week is

worth reading. it's not that long. he does outline his finding that it's more likely than not from the former president and his attorney mr. eastman engaged in fraud and criminal conduct and at one point in his decision, he said this was a coup looking for a legal theory. so, you know, we need to pursue this. we need to take steps to make sure that nothing like this can ever happen again. because our democracy is not out of the threat yes. we're not out of the woods yet. >> it is an extraordinary opinion. especially that last page. i want to read from the section you are talking about. the judge writes this, every american and certainly the president of the united states knows in that democracy leaders are elected not installed. with a plan this bold, president trump knowingly tried to subvert this fundamental principle. based on the evidence, the court

find it more likely than not that president trump corruptly attempted to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6th 2021. now, coincidentally, programs, that is the exact statute that i believe liz cheney your fellow committee member read from a few months back. have you made a criminal referral under that statute for donald trump, to the doj? >> we have not and obviously, we're not ruling out anything. but i think it's worth noting that a criminal revel from congress amounts to basically nothing. except when you are the victim of a crime. now in the case of the individuals that have engaged in criminal contempt of congress, congress is a victim and the american people are a victim of that criminal activity. that elevates the referral in a

way. but referring matters for prosecution under other statutes, the department of justice is under no obligation to take notice of that and i'm sure that the tomorrow and the other lawyers in the department of justice have read the judge's decision. i don't think they need us to let them know that it happened. >> ex-doj officials, people i know dan goldman and others expressed dismay that there doesn't appear to be any investigation of the inner circle, the circle that you are investigating. the circle that you all have peersd, frankly. it's clear you are in the room in the oval office with the witness testimony. have you heard already and some of which are still pursuing. what would you use for the impression at least that doj has not pursued that inner circle? >> well, i don't know, we don't

know what they're dock. that's appropriate prosecutors are es supposed to do their investigation. within they have something, you find out when you file an indictment. the attorney general has said publicly that they will follow these cases wherever they lead and so i want to believe that that is correct. meanwhile, our committee is not, you know, a criminal investigation. we're a legislative body and we're going to get all of the information and we're going to make it all public, for the american public. by the way, the department of justice doesn't know, they will be made aware of it. that's all we can do, really. >> and in terms of using all the tools at your disposal, will you subpoena members of congress? will you subpoena your own colleague? >> well, as i say, we are looking at all of the potential

witnesses, certainly documentary evidence does indicate some involvement from some, our colleagues. we have asked several of them to come in and talk to us. we have not yet issued subpoenas and actually there are other individuals that it is becoming clear have information that will be helpful to our investigation. so we have that determination has not been made, although, we are willing to pursue anything that gets us closest to the truth. >> can you offer any thoughts and i'm not specific once are being made public. but in terms of this reporting today, examination both on the part of the doj in the cases involving insurrectionism themselves as well as by your committee of donald trump's words and the response that they garnered and the knowledge, it's in the contempt report from mr. scovino and navarro.

the intersection of the violence that ensued and works that donald trump channelled direct will i to his supporters and had to have known is being targeted to those extremist groups. how much is that a focus? >> well, it's a great concern. it's one of the reasons why we want to hear from dan scovino. you know, he was the former president's twitterfy. and he also was tasked. we believe he did, take note and follow some of these extremist groups that were talking about violence. and we believe that he made that information known to the president. so we need to talk to him about that. the pieces are fitting together wouldn't appropriate for me to try and jump ahead of the actual report, the committee will make. but certainly, there is grave

concern that the president's words led to violence and, in fact, you know, members of the house and senate said as much right after the riot. it was only after certain of our colleagues, minority leader, the like, went to kiss the ring of the former president and mar-a-lago that the truth started to fade in their minds and now they are many republicans are trying to make excuses for this violence. that can't stand. the american public know that you cannot tolerate political violence deciding elections. that is not the american way. >> i have one more question. the 25 of supreme court justice clarence thomas, ginny thomas is a known conservative activist. i think it was unknown before some of her text messages to the ex-chief of staff, who is also

in defiance of full subpoena from your committee were released. i wonder what the i'm going to ask you, if you can tell us about the conversation you had about her and if it's something you won't keep private. i wonder if you can speak to her significance in terms of what was very public. donald trump called for these cases theory deck lus ones coming out of texas for six states, not only if texas, to just get to the supreme court. he was trying to get it to the supreme court. is ginny thomas important to understanding why trump was so succinct on that? >> well, we are looking at everything relative to miss thomas and i am not in a position to make an announcement on this now. but the committee is looking at everything related to any potential witness, including her. we're not afraid to ask people to come in, but we want to make sure that it would lead to more

information that it would shed light and not just create dust. so that's the nature of the inquiry. >> and coincidence or is possible, but are you -- does the tact that clarence thomas is the only justice who was, who dissented in the other justices voting for your committee having a says to all the trump records, does that raise more questions? and do you think he should recuse himself until your questions of ginny thomas' communications with senior white house officials are answered? >> well, as you know, the justices have to make a determination on recusal, themselves. congress can't do it tore them. the president can't do it for them. and the standard really for them is not just whether there is a conflict, but whether there is an appearance of a conflict. so i am confident that justice thomas and the other justices

will consider this question carefully and apply that standard which is not a new one and defend the integrity of the court. that would be my belief in full. >> congresswoman zoe lofgren, thank you so much for being so generous with your time today. we appreciate it. >> thank you very much. within the last few minutes, president joe biden signed into law the emmett till anti--lynching act in the rose garden. it is named in the honor of a black teen kidnapped, beaten and killed in mississippi in 1955, whose murder became a turning point in the civil rights movement in america. the act passed by unanimous consent, new york senate earlier this month and makes lynching a federal hate crime. we will have more on this story on the signing, on why it took so long to get this signed later into law. next for us, the pentagon is warning this afternoon, when it comes to the russians and peace negotiations, watch what they do, not what they say.

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that's why at america's beverage companies, our bottles are to be re-made. not all plastic is the same. we're carefully designing our bottles to be 100% recyclable, including the caps. they're collected and separated from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. that completes the circle and reduces plastic waste. please help us get every bottle back. . it is certainly fair to call what happened in istanbul today significant progress, a step in the right direction, hopefully, in those peace negotiation between russian and you cran indiana representatives. but there is hope on this side and there is reality over here on the other after a kremlin defense official revealed moscow

would drastically reduce activity near kiev, press secretary john kur by confirmed in his briefing a small number of russian troops have begun to move away from that country's capital. he made clear the u.s. sees this as a repositioning not a real or meaningful withdraw. joining our coverage live from istanbul. someone we haven't seen in a while, nbc news senior correspondent keir simmons and ambassador to russia michael mcfall is here to make sense of it all. keir, tell us what happened today and there are all these cautionary tales, watch what they do, not what they say. tell me how you see it from there? >> reporter: yeah, that, watch what they do, not what they say idea i suppose i might adjust that a little bit and suggest watch what they do and pay attention to what they say. so just to put in context, i

think it's important what happened in the building behind me here today, president putin has been talking about ukraine for most of his presidency. it's possible to argue that the conflict in ukraine really has been ongoing since 2014, hot and cold. when you think about all of that, in the context of one day here, i think nobody puts it into perspective exactly how much progress we've seen here and at the same time how much more would have to take place in order for there to be a real agreement and another aspect of this, the question about whether there can be a cease fear, whether there can be some kinds of a deal, i think that question should be seen as whether this conflict is frozen or whether a real solution is found. something important, i think, nicole, to register. that is that most of the proposals here came from the ukrainians, so neutrality, a

long-term idea of how you might deal with crimea, a new strategic frame for ukraine, all of that came from the ukrainians. interestingly, the russians in a television interview later today talked about taking those proposals back to president putin, in the end, of course, anything depends, all of this depends on president putin's agreement. so, let me put it like this. at the beginning of the day, they didn't even shake hands and there was even talk that the ukrainian foreign minister was warning the ukrainians not to eat anything, drink anything or touch anything for fear they might be poisoned. therefore, by the end of the day, for them to be saying we made progress is real progress, indeed. but one ukrainian official tells us, it's baby steps. >> russell mcfaul, is it baby steps at all if, you know, i don't even think vladimir putin is using the word war yet.

curious the word conflict. they're taking things back to putin, who seemingly remains cocooned out in his information, with much of his base, and saying information cocoon. are these meaningful at all? >> well, yes and no it's important that they meet, they exchange views, the ukrainians are being innovative in terms of what they're proposing. the russians, that's typical of negotiations. i used to negotiate with the russians on lesser matters, like the new stark treaty. they were always reactive and took things back and the interlocutors have the biggest power. the security guarantee issue, where are the borders and what is the size of the ukrainian military? those are the three big issues. those will be negotiate with putin and intermed areas, not by

those meeting in istanbul. they are teeing up those big decisions for future negotiations between the presidents. >> ambassador mcfaul, here is ukrainian details about ukrainians not to eat or drink anything? did you eat in the room? >> we most certainly did, those were better times. he is talking about the event poisoning, serious charges, accusations that need to be investigated, especially if chemicals were used in these poisonings. i think it tells you how much more difficult these negotiations are going to be. it's good they're meeting. i want toen clear about that. it's better they are meeting than not. it's good what they are saying. most importantly, but separately, what the russians are saying about their soldiers outside of kiev, that's also a positive seen. i want to hear it from putin, himself, before i am ready to believe it or remember why they're doing that. they're not doing that because putinen somehow decided to ab

nice guy. they're doing it because the ukrainians have defeated the russian invasion of kiev. they're the ones creating facts on the ground in ukraine. not vladimir putin with respect to the war around kiev. mariupol, of course, is a much more tragic situation where the russians are creating very barbaric facts on the ground in that battle. >> i do want to turn to boat of you and ask both of to you stick around for a very short break, keir and michael, we'll be right back, please stay with us. us. >> ♪

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. we are back with keir simmons and senator mcfaul, mcfaul said russia subpoena at the table from a position of strength. of course, they're dominant and brutal and calamities in mariupol and other places are undeniable. there haven't been successes talk about back home. we tried to understand, what is getting back home? do russians have any sense of how many thousands of young children have deed, how terribly a lot of people are going in other parts of the country? what do they think? rechlt they don't have that sense, many of them, because they are watching russian state media, which has a particular view. those that have left the urban middle class, in particular, a thousand of them in many countries, including this

country, turkey, they will have more of that sense. in a sense, that i are less influential. i would sigh something else, nicole, i think we have to be very careful to guard against what i have been calling western wishful thinking, which is to say that there is such a desire to get the world back to the way it was, if you like, to get some kind of a cease-fire. and president putin understands that about the west. there are many things you don't understand about the west. he doesn't understand that and confuse all of this as a negotiation and while it's said that he is not strategic. he is more tactical. she strategic and tactical in that he will adjust what he is doing depending on how the picture looks. another thing to say finally, nicole. he frames himself as a street fighter and a survivor. so, while there might be that steer in the west to get this

figured out and move on, from president putin's point of view, he is going to be seeing himself as having as much time as he needs in many ways. there are ways in which he won't do mill taefrl, certainly, politically, i think he has a large amount of support in russia. frankly, he will think he is see this play out and to make more tactical moves. >> it is an important note about the strategic assumptions of each country and each side if you will, if you want the west in what ukraine make. i want to ask you, ambassador mcfaul, one, two, if there is no amount of life of brutal of war crimes that take place on social media that would break or at least diminish putin's support inside russia? >> it hurts them but as keir just said, he has his electoral base, whether you call it 50/60%. they have been living in an

information bubble for years, decades now, nicole. so they're going to be with him to the bitter end. over time, of course, that will hurt. over time, russian soldiers will come back. remember, their soldiers are from very rural places, the people that support him. that's where most of the soldiers are from. over time, that will become a problem. not in the coming weeks and months. i think he has support he needs. we use the phase, needs off ramps. i think in front of whom does he need to save his face? i am firmly believe that there whether only be real peace negotiation when there is genuine military stalemate on the ground. and military stalemate is the necessary condition for putin to get serious. that's why it's good news. i am still very skeptical, i who irhe's regrouping to try to march on kiev another day. the good news of today.

why is it good news? because the ukrainians are beating putin's army on the battlefield. that is a necessary condition for real negotiations irrespective of putin's support or lack thereof inside russia. >> keir simmons in istanbul, it is very nice to see you. thank you very much, former ambassador michael mcfall, thank you so much for keeping us informed. weal we'll be right back after a quick break. please stay with us. we'll be right back after a quick break. we'll be right back after a quick break. we'll be right back after a quick break. we'll be right back after a quick break. e'll be right back after a quick break. please stay with us. away on its own! -no, it won't go away on its own.

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. all i can tell you is this,

there is like what russia says and what russia does. we focus on the latter what russia is doing, is give you a brutal invasion in ukraine, killing people there. that continues as we speak. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. it's midnight in kiev an day 34 in the war in ukraine. a warning of caution there from sax tony blinken. negotiations between russian and ukrainian delegation today yielded what many feel may be the most significant progress towards an end to the war to date. russia announced it will drastically reduce military activity near ukraine's capital in the nearby city of chernihiv and ukraine proposed adopting a neutral status, meaning the country would not be able to join a nato alliance, but do so in exchange of security germany these and about those

negotiation, "new york times" reports this, quote, while ukraine and russia appear to be a long way from making peace, both sides sounded more conciliatory on tuesday than at any other point since putin's invasion. the head of the russian delegation said russia viewed ukraine's proposals as a constructive step in the search for a compromise. but as secretary blimplgen not blinken noted, actions are stronger than words. areas where the russian military is losing, struggling mightily, in other areas of ukraine, continue to see brutal assaults today. the nine-story administration building in the southern city of mykolaiv was struck by russians earlier. local officials say about fin people are dead. 28 people are wounded. the region's governor said this, quote, it is terrible, they waited for people to go to work before striking the building. i overslept, i am lucky.

in the western part of the country, the crisis in mariupol continues. as we heard from the mayor. it is under russian control. ukraine's president zelenskyy called the ongoing bam barredment of the city a crime against humanity. there is one woman that escaped mariupol, describing what life is like there now. >> there is no gas, no electricity, no heating, no cell phone service, we melt snow to have at least something to drink. we cook on open fires under shelling and bombs, just because if you don't, you will have nothing to eat. a lot of people are just i think starving to death in their apartments right now with no help. >> earlier today, president joe biden spoke with the leaders of uk, france, germany and italy, they all affirm their determination to continue raising the price that russia will pay for its brutal assault. joining us live from lviv,

ukraine, is our colleague ali. take us through not just with what's happening, it's nighttime there. take us through the day. tell us what the ukrainian people sort of feel and what great skepticism do they have about the negotiations with russia? >> reporter: hi, nicole. you samoaic to ukrainians from all walks of life. they tell you the same thing. they are willing to fight for their country, their sovereignty, their people. they are not willing to give up an inch of their territory. they don't believe anything that vladimir putin or the russian leaders are saying about a cease-fire or a drawback. because they say what the russians say and what they do are two completely different things. if you look at what that senior russian general said just on friday, that the first phase of what they call a special

military operation is now over and they're going to focus on the donbas region hasn't run true at all. they have still hit kiev. they have taken over mariupol, as you just mentioned. chernihiv is being hit very hard. they don't believe that finally enough, president zelenskyy made a comment today saying the drawback from the russian troops may mean that they're flying their planes less and driving their tanks less in a very sar castic way. they warned people to stay vigilant to keep up the fight. it doesn't look like the russians are going anywhere. interesting, nicole, we went a few days ago to a training base for civilians in this country. they really personify the fighting spirit of the ukrainians that don't want to give up any of their country. these are people from ordinary jobs that have never fired a gun, let alone assembled one. but they're there trying to learn how to use these weapons, many of them are frightening, because they've never done these

things before. but nonetheless, they're willing to do it. one man there was a 64-year-old grandfather and he was very adamant that he was going to protect his home, his family. let's take a listen to what he has to say. >> there are some people that never had any weapons in their hands. it is first the spirit, not the weapon that wins the war. all these people have a strong spirit and will to defend their country. >> reporter: so he is 64-years-old, legally in this country, you can leave the country. you don't have to fight if you are 60 or over. that was out of the question for him. and i asked him if he had a message for president biden, he wished him good health and said they can do all the help they can get from the u.s. i asked him if he had a comment for vladimir putin, big smile on his face. he raised the kalashnikov he was

training with, this is my message for putin that says it all about the folks here. you can leave. he's not going to, he is willing to fight the russians. he's come out of retirement to go and join these territorial forces. so, it's very impressive to see people like this. and it's hard to imagine the russians conquering this country when they have this viking spirit and they've out maneuvered the russian war machine. they've defied all the odds here and they've not better than them. they have been cleverer than them. the russians have taken big losses not only on troops, on machines, so, you know, the ukrainians will fight on as ard as they can. that is evident with anybody you speak to here. >> i want to ask you about that, ali, you got a country. you are if a part of the country two miles from you there have been some everyone calls them strategic sites, bombs, but facilities and targets if you will, the russian military, but you are in a part of the country

where people are experiencing the horrors, the war crimes happening in mariupol from a distance or through loved one who's are trapped or escaped. but also what looks like a clear and resounding at this point victory in kiev, where officials in the west thought kiev could fall in days. they saw, recovered that convoy headed for kiev. everyone sort of held their breath waiting for the russians to take kiev. they did not, it's a defeat so far for the russians. how do those two sort of the horror and tragedy of war in mariupol and other places and the surprising, maybe not from the ukrainians, to the rest of the world, success in kiev, how are people processing those two realities of war? >> well, it is the realities of war. i think because of the horrors you see in mariupol and chernihiv and other places, it's making these volunteers, armed forces fight so much harder to

keep their capital, which would be a significant win for vladimir putin. that itself the jewel in the crown for him in this war. you know as you said, the russians thought they were going to save kiev, either kill zelenskyy or put him on the run. that hasn't happened. they not tooth and nail to push these guys back and recapture a lot of the territory that the russians had claimed earlier on in this war and they're not willing to give it up and it's very sad on the other hand to see what's happened to cities like mariupol. there is nothing left of it. every account you hear from mariupol is a horror story. we spoke to one young lady who escaped last week. she said, they didn't have any food left there. they didn't want to starve to death so she made a suicide pact with her sister, in case they were going to starve to death. it's unimaginable in the 21st century. i think that just raises the fighting spirit for everybody else in this country. they don't want to see their

brothers or sisters going through horrors first time from these people. so it's a big fight and in and around kiev, the russians, i don't think, are going to leave there any time soon. i think it will be people ciao you are to see if vladimir putin has given up any hope of capturing kiev. they're probably regrouping, bringing fresh troops back in there. and there may be a huge offensive for them to take that place. but for now, they're pushing back. that's a signal of what a botched invation this has been by the russians, because they couldn't take the capital and they're still digging in, bringing troops in and out to see what they can do. this was a disaster for the russians. but at the end of the day, nicole, i think both sides also feed this war to come to an end and ukrainians want to save their country, want to save their people, it's their cities that are getting bombed, not russian cities. we're seeing what's happened to the russian economy and the morale of these troops here. morale is an all-time low from

everything we hear. they don't have proper supplies. they're getting frostbite. the russian troops, some of them who may not want to be fighting here are going to go back to russia and see if the ruble has completely crashed. their money is worth nothing. i am sure they will ask themselves what is this all for? >> i hope they ask that question. thank you so much, please stay safe. joining our coverage, jeremy bash, chief of staff at the cio and defense department, he is now a national security contributor, aim mckinnon is here, national security reporter for forum policy magazine. amy, you write of the five -- actually let me ask both of you your reaction to talks in istanbul. we were warned by keir simmons to use the russian imperative, it's non-urgent, they have time, that i can bleed lives, both their owns and the you caneians, they don't have the western capabilities to stop the horrors and suffering, do you abide by

those questions? what is your sense? >> most definitively, ninicole. of course, it's good that they are talking, but i think the russians are trying to game out their next move here as ali and others reported. the russian military has overextended itself. as a result it put its own soldiers at tremendous risk. the ukrainians are exacting a tremendous punishment on the russian soldiers and military. as a result russia has had to reposition its forces. in talking to folks inside the u.s. government the afternoon, basically, i'm hearing they don't see this as a russian pullback, some russian effort to de-escalate. they see this as a repositioning of the forces as your report has noted as a way to retrench, fortify their positions, stage for further attacks and so i think this is all about russia

buying some time to replenish their logistical and supply lines, to get more troops in there so they can continue the onslaught f. they were really interested in peace, nicole, of course, that i would stop the hor risk siege of places like mariupol, which you just reported is a scene where people are starving. people are without water, they're melting snow to drink and they are suffering from one of the worst humanitarian crises that we have seen since world war ii. >> jeremy, officials within the u.s. government that you speak to, what is their plan for aiding ukraine for this entrenchment or phase ii of the russian assault? >> reporter: it's fundamentally to accelerate awe assistance to ukraine. the government is waging an economic war and sanctions continue to bite russia. there is an information war, where secretary blinken and others are trying to defang russia's misinformation, their

effort to turn the table on the ukrainians and create these pre texts of these chemical and biological weapons incidence that could be the pre text for russian activity. there is a cyber war, a defensive war manly, covertly, likely, the u.s. government is also undertaking cyber activities with ukraine, with nato against russian elements and fourth, the ep direct military war that we are fighting that president biden has been fighting, accelerating with billions of assistance and general todd walters, the supreme allied commander was on capitol hill today, he details some of the efforts that rush more javelins to continue to push back on the russian offensive. >> amy, i want your thoughts and then i do want to fet into your great new reporting. >> reporter: well, my colleagues and i have spent the day calling around former u.s. diplomats.

i spoke to the foreign russian minister earlier to get their lead on whether the russians are serious about the talks we seen today. what we heard in response is a resounding no many see that this may be an effort by the russians to stall for time to regroup to try and unscramble those logistic problems which has plagued their company so far. what we heard from the white house today, they very much regard these, it's not a pullback. it's a repositioning of troops. what i hear from military analysts is we can probably expect to see an increase in fighting in eastern ukraine and russian focus on that area with a potential view to ensercole ukrainian troops in the area and cutting them off from the ukrainian armed forces, nobody seems to think the russians are serious at this stage. i would say one indication is

their choice of administrator, he does not have international experience. russia has that, they have experienced diplomats with ukraine and also with the united states. you know the chief negotiator is very much a culture warrior, ultraconservative. he very much marches to the kremlin line. he like putin has been accused of revising history with political aim. so with someone like that in charge of negotiations, everyone is skeptical there is anything serious to campaign here. >> it may question why happen at all other than as you say a charade to buy time because the international community leaks to sort of see anything that may move the world towards peace in the region. is it your sense that think are simply a charade on the russian front? >> reporter: well, we saw in the run-up to this war, many rounds of intense negotiations and

efforts at diplomacy ween russian officials and their counterparts in europe and the west, with feshls desperately trying to find an off-ramp in the run-up to the war. russian officials saying for weeks, we have no intention to going to war and mocking the western press. lo and behold they went to war anyways. i think russia goes through the motions of acting like a responsible international player and they're engageing in good faith diplomacy. what we see in reality and secretary of state tony blinken tried to say is russian actions are really quite different. >> so jeremy, i want to circulate the numbers the washington post is reporting, russia could have lost as many as 15,000 troops and nato estimate is that, that means that 30,000 to 40,000 troops have been killed, wounded or taken prisoner, based on the

assumption for every soldier killed, three are wounded. i want to ask you, it sounds like a monstrous number of deaths and injuries. but what i hear both of you saying is there no no pressure on putin to end the war. what do you do with an actor like that? >> reporter: first, those numbers are staggering, my comb. to put it in context. it's twice the amount of casualties the u.s. suffered during our 20-years wars in iraq and afghanistan. this is a brutal loss for the russian military. i think what we can do, we can continue to afternoon up publication of those numbers the russian people see and understand the toll this is taking, not just on their economy, not just from a political diplomatic sense, a human sense and all those russian service members coming home in body bags means russian families will be grieving and mourning their loss. i think showcasing that to the russian people and laying baer the tragedy of this invasion,

the waste, the chaos, the absolutely humanitarian catastrophe putin visited on ukraine, it's a very important dimension of trying to build pressure on putin from within. none of us has any illusions that putin is not subject to democratic pressures where he's going to, you know, be concerned about what's written in a free press and russia. they don't have that, obviously. but there is a sense that across russia, this bar is not going well and that i think does put pressure on putin in a very, hopefully, constructive way. >> i want to read from your latest reporting, amy, about where we might go from here. you lay up five potential scenarios from your reporting. bloody stalemate. the partitioning of ukraine, a peace agreement, a decisive victory, a black swan event and you have this note. the eventual outcome is likely to be a combination of at least some of these.

explain. >> well, what we wanted to do was to explore, the question on everyone's lips is where does this war go from here? we are one month into this conflict. there has been lots of surprises, twists and turns, this campaign has not gone as russia may have hoped. that i have not talked with kiev. we want to look where things may go from here. we outlined a broad sense of scenarios. we got into the detail of which ones are more likely to see in the coming weeks and the coming month. my sense from speaking, we spoke to over a sudden u.s. and western officials and military analysts and regional experts. my take away from that is i think what we may see is as i said earlier, an escalating and fighting in eastern ukraine, with a russian attempt to cleave off further territory from ukraine and use that as a bargaining chip at the negotiating table. possibly a part of that some kind of bloody stalemate, where

both sides ends up dug in, exhausted, to kill more troops on the other side, not progressing. as one former senior u.s. official put it to me, you know, it was an option of the balkan war, where both sides have to exhaust themselves on battlefields before they finally are willing to go to the negotiating table and make meaningful talks happen. and so many people that we have spoken to fear this conflict could actually get worse before it gets better. >> it's a grand piece of reporting. a very well reported one. jeremy bash and amy mckinnon, thank you both for spending time with us and be ac part of our coverage. when we come back, back from ukraine, a reporter will tell us what he saw and why he is going back and why he thinks president joe biden is correct to say that vladimir putin cannot remain in power. that's next. plus, nearly seven decades after the murder of emmett hill,

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over the last 34 days since russia invaded ukraine,

declaring war on our anybody democracy, we've had the privilege of getting to speak to multiple journalists on the ground and bring to light and show our realities from the front lines of war, human that dis, despite the dangers journalists face. we had journalist from a salon on our program, since he left poland on his way to lviv, eventually to kiev. wow, he has returned from that trip safely and has earned several dispatches about his time in ukraine. he wrote, being reporter in oconflict zone is complicated. you have to be aware of the television audience and environment you are in. you have to be vigilant how you conduct yourself. you have to let people know you are a known combatant. you can't carrying a gun. are you risking your life getting information out to the world. how are you, friend? i just want you to talk. so tell me where you want to

start. >> reporter: well, i guess we could start two a trip that we had there. it was nice to actually sit down and talk with people who live there. you can get first-hand stories of what occurred. you could find out, we were given warnings by the state department that there were russians that were tagging reporters. we were at the receiving end of that, a couple of times, where we were tracked and followed by people that were, i don't know, as i said in the column, i don't know if they want to shoot me or kidnap me or invite me to a mixer. but i wasn't sticking around to spend any time with them. it's a very interesting situation for the people who live there. and the people that we spoke to, i got to tell you, i sat there one day and it finally dawned on me, putin cannot capture. he cannot conquer this country. he can only level it. that's what he's doing in mariupol. he's marily trying to link his troops on the eastern front and

the southern front and this is the modern day version in world war ii in the battle of the bulge. if it doesn't fall, putin can't accomplish what he wants. there is no way that they're going to let that happen. they'd rather die than become a part of you know russia and there are people there that i spoke to who are leak, look, these were supposed to be our friends, these are our neighbors, in some cases relatives coming after them for a reason that they can't comprehend. so putin i think has accomplished two things that i don't think he counted on. one is that he reinvigorated nato and two he ignited ukraine. so, if that what was his goal, he's accomplished that. i don't see what he accomplishes what he wants to do. that's to pass into i that country. >> brian -- pacify that country from brian, one of sort of stories going into the invasion was how pos-on u.s. intelligence

was about russia's plans. and the rapid collection analysis and dissemination of that intel, the crisis is ukrainian people would rather die was maybe unnoticeable. maybe you don't know the spirit of a nation until it is at war. but tell me who you the ukrainians feel about this general assumption that they would simply be outmatched by the russian military? >> ha, well, i think, there is a poster that i've seen all over ukraine and it's this is we live on this ground, you will be in it. they're not getting -- i talked to a farmer about 40 miles southwest of kiev, he said, americans have a lot of guns, bring them, we'll kill a lot of russian bears. i think if you want to describe the spirit of this country, if you want to describe the spirit of this country, i think it's

what zelenskyy said, i don't need a right to ammunition. that emboldened that nation. i talked to people who vol teased to help. humanitarians, i talked to two dozen humanitarian organizations that are providing, you know, food and clothing and shelter in some cases and first-aid to the people in ukraine and there are others volunteering to fight for ukraine. i gave you guys a piece of video. there is a bunch of people that are training people who live in ukraine, civilians to defend their home. these people are not going to go down, will not go gentle in the night. putin has miscalculated. i think when the president said, our president said, for god's sake, he can't go on as leader of this country. he was reacting to the horror we all saw. there is a fought, a grandfather as empathetic as ever.

i really think it was wrong to take or walk that statement back. i took it for what it was when i heard it. he wasn't advocating any regime change. he was relating the horror of what he saw. the horror was of what we all seen, we have been there. we spoke to the refugees, i spoke to them in their homes as they're fleeing. you cannot see that and how resilient that i are to continue to fight. >> you wrote about that specifically. the threat of putin using weapons of mass destruction is real and growing. biden's visceral reaction to putin during his speech in poland is thus put in the proper frame. the fear is without regime change in moscow, the planet is reduced to that of a primitive man huddled in caves, if we survive at all. >> reporter: yeah. yeah. you know when putin does what he does and people are criticizing

biden for saying what he said and think you will embolden putin, biden right there too, look, you don't have to embolden putin, he goes to the beat of his own drummer. he's going to twist anything that he wants to anyway he wants. there is no way of understanding exactly how this man will act and the only way for the world to be safe is for him not to be in power. >> your new book "free the press" is out. are you going back? >> reporter: sure. yep. two weeks. i'll be back in a couple of weeks. i had to come home for a little bit. >> okay. good, good. i think that's a good rotation. please come talk to us on your what i if and your way back out. thank you for spending some time with us today. when we come back, we will turn to that bill signing in the white house. stay with us. our roundtable joins us next. its

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between 1877 and 1950 there were 4,400 black people were murdered by lynching, most in the south, but some in the north as well. that's a lot of folks, man. a lot of silence for a long time. their crimes, trying to vote,

trying to go to school, trying to own a business or preach the boss in pell. false accusations of murder, arson and robbery, simply being black. >> today we are gathered to do unfinished business, to acknowledge the horror in this part of our history, to state unequivocally that lynching is and has always been a hate crime and to make clear that the federal government may now prosecute these crimes as such. >> president joe biden in the rose garden in the last hour signing into law the emmett till lynching act alongside vice president harris, a co-sponsor and a founder. the law now makes lynch ac federal hate crime for the first time in our nation's history, makes it punishable for up to 30 years in prison. the u.s. senate passed the bull

unanimously earlier this month. imcame after 200 failed attempts in congress. it's named after 14-year-old emmet till, who was kidnapped, beaten and killed, in a lynching in mississippi in 1955. joining us the reverend al sharpton, the president of the national action network, he was in the rose garden for today's bill signing. plus matt dowd is here, mr. ill strategist, founder of country over party as well as an msnbc political analyst and the moderator of washington week on pbs, there is a sense when you see this news, it feels impossible, it is the year 2022 and we're just getting this done. what are your thoughts? >> it is something that i was talking to the president and vice president after the signing and to think that we are just getting this signed and the

president mentioned charlottesville, he mentioned ahmed aubrey and we are still facing hate crimes. i think this is important because it gives a way for the federal government to weigh in on hate crimes as i mentioned. but to think we had to get to 2022 to make lynching a federal crime, it is a bittersweet day. i am glad for my great granddaughter and great grandchildren here to see it. i was glad to see the relatives of emmet till. it's named after them. it is sad it took this long to get here and, clearly, the thing we must meet with the commitment we must lead with is to make sure it's enforced and that we continue in a way and will stop using lynchings to deal with a country that this becomes a part of the past. we are not there yet. >> we are not there yet.

yamiche, the president spent some time in his remarks today talking about racial an mus, racial animosity hate crimes are still very much a part of our lives today. your thoughts on the signing and, frankly, the process was not a straight line. this was not a sure thing in the congress. >> i think what al sharpton, reverend sharpton just said is spot-on, which is that it's both a bittersweet day in that it took so long to get here, but also that this is a glimmer of hope that the nation is finally turning to say, yes, this crime in particular, this crime has terrorized so many black people for generations, that it is now a federal crime. i think to pause on the idea that it's maimed after emmett hill. he was this 14-year-old boy who for people that don't know him rocked our nation by being murdered. his courageous mother openinging his casket for all to see what

her disfigured son looks like and people to see the face of racism and his, that moment inspired lo sa parks to sit to become a civil rights activist, john lewis in his last column in the "new york times" said that emmett till was his george floyd, explaining to people that this is something that is absolutely still happening. but something that the nation need to really along at and really recognize, so, i mean in some ways, i am hurt by the fact emmet till's name is on here, it would be wrong to think this is a historic bill. nothing is happening right now, bringing up the name ahmed aubrey, one of so many others black men and women killed, targeted because of their race. and it's an important moment for the country but also remind me we have a lot of work to do. because we are a country that is still going through culture wars, race and identity is still something that has americans at

odds in so many different ways. so it to me is a hastyening moment, but also a moment to remind us there is so much to do. >> well, the president makes his point, right, to what yamiche is saying, quotes, ida b. wells, the way to right wrongs is turn a light of truth on the wrongs. let me play that for you, mathew. >> people like ida b. wells, one of the founders of the naacp established 100 years ago racial terror across the country. a brilliant, gifted writer. she exposed the barbaric nature of lynching as a tool to intimgait and subjugate black americans, she tried to prevent the murders of emmett till and ahmed aubrey, so many others over 4,400 others. ida b. wells once said, quote, the way to right wrongs is to

turn the light of truth poen the wrongs. turn the light of truth upon the wrongs. that's what all of you have done gathered in this rose garden. >> mathew, it was this moment, this event that captured you'll of this hope i think that yamiche and reverend were talking about, it also was sort of under the lights just how far we have to travel as we have phony debates about how do you even teach this history? >> reporter: i was nicole thinking the exact same thing as i was listening to that in the course of this. i mean, we all know the journey to a more perfect union has been throughout our history, it's been long, maybe martin luther king underestimated the arc of justice that it bend towards justice long, but it bends towards justice.

we are here today unbelievably in 2022 to do this. i think the president is right about this. the only way we correct wrongs and become that more perfect union is if we examine the truth. and as we have this celebration today about the anti--lynching bill. i will add that more than half of the people lynched in texas in that time frame were latinos. more than half the people lynched in texas were latinos. we remember in 1998, james berg was dragged, 1998, it wasn't that long ago, james berg spray-painted and beaten in east texas down a country road for miles in this. he couldn't be prosecuted at the time, there was no federal hate crime related to this. but it is fundamentally about the truth and correcting the errors of our ways in doing better in the future and if we do what many people are advocating, especially on the republican side, which is

completely edit our history so we don't look at what we did to the native-americans. we don't look at what we did to the asian americans. we don't look at what we have done to african-americans, we don't look at what we've done to latino-americans, we don't look at what we've done to our women. these will not to make us feel awful about ourselves, to make us understand we have to do better. >> i can see you are at the airport, it's til typical of you to not say no, i'll give you a quick last word if you have a minute. >> i think that it was hopeful to be able to see this legislation finally pas that corey booker and then senator kamala harris, but as i sat in the rose garden, i also thought about not far from the white house, we saw just last week a black woman being questioned about grace as she is now nominated to be the first black

woman on the supreme court. so when you look at the republicans, the senate judiciary committee that are still raising the same kind of bogus questions, it says that, yes, we have come a long way, but we've got a long way to go. if you don't believe it, look at the hear, not 100 years ago, but just last week when you ask a black who him that has passed everything you could mooj imagine to show she's qualified, whether or not she religion, ask her about her coloring book of a young white child and do you think he's a racist and accuse her of dealing with critical race theory, we still have a lot of work to do. today was a good round, but the fight is far from over. >> thank you so much for making some time for us on your way to wherever you are going next.

yamiche, mathew stick around, what is shaping up in a deadly insurrection. that's next. , stick around, what is shaping up in a deadly insurrection. that's next. zblmpls zblmpbls zblmpls zblmpbls

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how. according to "the new york times" the doj and the january 6th select committee are both looking at how a trump tweet weeks before the january 6th insurrection became a clarion call to action with those far right extremist militants that played a central role in the attack on the capitol during which trump may have spent a good chunk of the day communicating off the grid, off the books literally. "the washington post" is out with new reporting that shows the committee investigating the insurrection now is looking for an explanation for a gap, a 7 hour and 37 minute gap to be specific, in white house phone logs. after extensive revelations about phone calls he had with allies during the attack. we're back with matt dowd and yamiche alcindor. some of the questions are did he

ever do anything to secure the capitol, did he ever do anything to speed the national guard? did he ever do anything to secure the white house complex, anything to secure his vice president? the answer is no, but now we have absolutely no idea what he did do for 7 hours and 37 minutes. >> it's incredible, nicolle, when you think about the fact that essentially the black box at the white house is missing. that's the only way i can think about this information because i kept thinking at some point we're going to find the black box and be able to understand what he was doing and saying. and instead we get text messages to understand who mark meadows was talking to and the frantic messages of the white house in realtime but what the actual president of the united states was doing, who he was calling, how he was feeling, how he was processing all this information and trying to you would imagine marshal the federal resources to try and get a siege at the

capitol under control, we just don't know. and that to me in some ways is proving the point of a lot of bipartisan lawmakers who said this investigation was needed. because in some ways not having those answers, really -- it's a sort of mystery that can't really stand on its own. as a country we need to understand from just a transparency point of view we need to understand what was going on in the white house. >> you know, the black box is so chilling and you think about the bipartisan commission that investigated the 9/11 attacks, which was the idea how to investigate this attack on the country. matt dowd was killed by republicans, votes against it in the republican house and senate. but to yamiche's use of that word it's clear that mission control for the events of that day really cost the white house

bhch. >> yeah. and it was as the hijackers were in charge of the plaque box. that's what the case is the hijackers of our democracy pulled the black box to tell us what's happened in the course of this. you know, nicolle, you and i have had a lot of conversations over the last several years, many in private, some on television, and many of the things we say is this is going to get worse and next is this going to get worse, and it just remind me of a johnny cash song how high is the water, mama, 2 feet high and rising, 4 feet high and rising, 5 feet high and rising. and now we know all of these facts that have come out in the last week including the last 24 hours, everybody was in on this which not only included a president of the united states and u.s. senators and representatives in the house, but we know now it includes a wife of a supreme court justice who has made decisions related to this case while his wife was

trying to undermine our democracy and enable an insurrection at the capitol. obviously all our eyes have been affixed in the last five weeks on ukraine. i think we do an incredible job talking about what's going on in a war zone and what's happening to a democracy in ukraine by the likes of somebody like vladimir putin. we have to do a much better job because the depth of the damage that happens and is happening in the united states of america through january 6th and all the things surrounding it and everybody that was involved and facilityitated in enabling it will have much more global impact, what's happened here and is happening here, much more deeper and longer global impact. we're the longest modern democracy in history, and we're in danger of losing that. and many time every day i think to myself does anybody see -- do people see the water's 5 feet high and rising, 6 feet high and rising? because that's where we are.

>> yamiche, i'll give you a quick last word. >> it to me underscores the idea that even as president biden was in ukraine and answering questions about sort of the state of democracy there, there was that german reporter who said what about trump, and this really is the elephant in the room globally and the thing that is hanging over america. if we can't as a society just look at the truth, which is that there was a real effort to try to -- to try to undo and overturn an election, then that to me -- it doesn't bode well for our international standing when i talk to sources, and i also think it doesn't bode well for whoever ends up in the white house because we're now living in a country where other countries are looking and saying, okay, you want to have moral high ground on ukraine, but you have to also deal with your own house. >> yeah, and it's so interesting it's not disconnected from the conversations about russia.

any time i ask anyone about what they see here in russia, you have to ask that question of what people see here in this country as well for very different reasons. we have access to the best journalism in the world, yamiche, but we do need to take a long look in the mirror. quick break for us. we'll be right back. stay with us. quick break for us we'll be right back. stay with us ♪ ♪ do your eyes bother you? because after all these emails, my eyes feel like a combo of stressed, dry and sandpaper.

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thank you so much for letting us in you're homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. i watch these hearings and i was so proud to have you as a colleague watching your probing questions. >> thank you for saying that. it was interesting to see it introduced as evidence. i'm curious to see what you think of that evidence last night to say we've