than others. and we have to respect that. >> right. so my question is this has been going on, this discussion's been going on a lot longer than just the ukraine conflict. so are you -- have you already begun some of those consultations and those negotiations with those countries keeping in mind that you've been having this discussion for a lot longer than just this year? >> yes, we've had these discussions going on before the invasion. clearly. but in terms of post-invasion posture decisions, no. now, look, we've been to brussels twice in the last couple of weeks. the secretary has visited poland and germany and slovakia and bulgaria. and in every one of those conversations when he meets with his counterparts there's a discussion about u.s. leadership in the region and what it means and what they want it to look like. so i mean, i'm not going to -- i'm not going to walk you away from the idea that informal discussions are happening. of course they are. you would expect that to be the case given what mr. putin has

done. but in terms of hard-nosed negotiating, you know, sitting down with pen and paper and mapping it out, what it's going to look like long term, no, we're not at that point right now. >> okay. >> yeah. >> assistant secretary wallander told the house panel today that they'll be working with slovakia to identify the requirements for meeting slovakia's need in case they provide their -- to ukraine. could you please detail that work a little bit, what are you guys doing with -- >> the secretary says much more when we're in slovakia. that's absolutely right. we are doing that. i'm not going to detail from the podium consultations we're having with an individual nation state about capabilities they might be willing to provide to ukraine and what the offset might look like but we're absolutely having discussions about that. >> also general walters responding to a question today acknowledged that the u.s. pulled out its destroyers out of black sea just before the

russian invasion and he added that u.s. should return to the black sea as soon as possible. what was the calculus of pulling those ships out of black sea then and do you have a plan or any discussion in the department to send back some ships to the black sea? >> i think, look, we move ships in and out of the black sea routinely. it's not unusual. we don't keep them permanently in the black sea. but we absolutely have moved them in and out as needed. and it was deemed a prudent decision to do it as we continue to see an invasion as more imminent to make it very clear to everybody that the -- that the united states was not interested in forcing a conflict by some posture decision we were making. it was the prudent thing to do at the time, and i don't have anything to announce with respect to if and when u.s.

ships will go back into the black sea. we watch and monitor this every day, and we'll make the best decisions based on what's in the best interests of our national security and that of our allies and partners as well. over here way in the back there. kelly? >> thanks. >> i'm hallie jackson in washington with you this afternoon. you have been watching of course pentagon press secretary john kirby give an update on what is happening in ukraine as it relates to the movement of those russian troops. i want to bring in ali arouzi in ukraine, kelly o'donnell who's covering the white house where we've seen developments as well. courtney kube is at the pentagon. and we're also joined by jason beardsley the national executive director of the advocacy group the association of the u.s. navy. courtney, let me start with you and what we just heard from john kirby there, that russia has repositioned about 20% of its troops in the kyiv area away from the city, essentially saying russia is focusing their strikes on the north and saying, you know, send your troops home. go home. with this very clear message to the kremlin about what they need to do to de-escalate here.

>> yeah, that's right. and he's using a very specific term here. repositioning. as opposed to the term withdrawal. which is what some people were talking about yesterday, the potential for some sort of a russian military withdrawal. and i think that's a very -- that is a specific word that he's using because he wants -- pentagon press secretary john kirby wants to convey that they are not yet saying that russia is letting up the pressure on places like kyiv. now, it is somewhere in the neighborhood up to 20% he said of the russian military arrayed around kyiv, the capital city. some of them have been moving away. and i asked specifically if those troops who are leaving the city, are moving away from the city, are they continuing to attack. and he said right now they're focused on leaving. so that's critical. that being sailed, they still -- the russian military is still going after cities like kyiv and chernihiv up in the north. he also said that there is still an assessment that it's possible this is a larger russian effort

to resupply and refit their military troops as part of sort of the next phase of this military invasion. now, whether that focuses on areas like the donbas in the southeast, which there's been some assessment that russia may focus more on that in the coming days, or if it's just reassessing and refitting the troops up there so that they would still go after kyiv, that's still unclear, hallie. again, this is still pretty early. this is only 24 hours old. but we did learn a little bit more also about where those troops are not only leaving from around kyiv but where they're going. so there's been three axes that have been going toward the capital. the northeast, the northwest and coming directly from the east. the ones coming up from belarus and from russia down around kyiv those are the ones they're starting to see some of the troops leave. and john kirby said that some of them are actually heading back to belarus, also a new detail here, hallie. >> courtney, stand by for me because ali arouzi i want to go to you on the ground before i get to kelly. military officials there as we

hear this update from the pentagon are giving their own assessment of what they're seeing from russian troops. it syncs with what courtney just laid out, this redeployment around kyiv, around chernihiv as well. give us a perspective from on the ground. >> hi, hallie. that's right. well tharks saying a lot of the same things the u.s. military are saying, that they don't believe this is going to be a massive withdrawal of troops from kyiv, from chernihiv. and the evidence on the ground certainly does support that. look, last night the russians said that they were going to withdraw from chernihiv, but they continued to pound that city overnight and through today. they said they were going to withdraw from kyiv and they still have a large amount of troops around kyiv. the ukrainian officials say they don't see any signs of them leaving and those very small number of troops that have moved from kyiv are just being rotated according to the ukrainians and that rotation is just a trick to throw the ukrainian forces off the scent and that they continue to circle and try to encircle

kyiv and that they're not going to give up their aspirations of taking the capital city. they may focus some more of their artillery attacks now in the don bass region because the operation in kyiv has gone so badly, but nobody you speak to here, military officials, tell you that they're going to leave the area around kyiv or chernihiv. and of course we've seen places like mariupol which they have not left alone at all. they've consistently pounded that city and by all accounts in the next few days mariupol may fall into russian hands even though they put up such a fierce resistance there they have flattened that city and the russians weren't able to take it with ground troops. they took it by missiles and bombs from the air. and one of the fears is if they can't do that in kyiv, in chernihiv, that they will also pound those cities from the air as well and make it look like mariupol. >> ali arouzi live for us in lviv. thank you. listen, we've got that pentagon update that is happening live now. we know on capitol hill there's

a classified briefing that is happening this afternoon. and then at the white house of course the communications director -- i was going to say press secretary, but it's kate bedingfield doing the briefing today. kelly o'donnell, as you well know, getting a lot of questions about this intelligence the u.s. is now talking about, that vladimir putin was not in sync with his ministry of defense and some concerns about where that goes. fill us in on the latest from the white house after the president of course spoke with president zelenskyy for nearly an hour today. >> a lot of different parts here. and on the putin piece, what's so interesting about this is that vladimir putin is a very difficult target for western intelligence. he is so isolated and removed, making it difficult to assess intelligence very close to putin. and that makes this new piece of information very interesting and very illustraive of what's happening. what the u.s. intelligence is saying is that they believe that the ministry of defense officials around putin are not giving him accurate information about what is happening in real

world terms on the battlefield in ukraine. that is important because if putin is the ultimate decision maker on the course of events in ukraine and this war that was unprovoked, that putin has waged, information is critical for how he will proceed. and so if he's not getting good information, presumably things. things like the degree of losses on the russian side would be a presumption that he would not be getting a clear picture on that. that's an important piece of information. today the president was asked about this. he declined to engage on intelligence. but kate bedingfield, who is the communications director, is conducting the briefing in the absence of jen psaki and karin jean-pierre who are both dealing with covid diagnoses. she was asked about this as well and she addressed this new intelligence. here's what kate had to say. >> we have information that putin felt misled by the russian

military, which has resulted in persistent tension between putin and his military leadership. we believe that putin is being misinformed by his advisers about how badly the russian military is performing and how the russian economy is being crippled by sanctions because his senior advisers are too afraid to tell him the truth. >> so that paints a picture, hallie, of putin not having all the facts he needs to deal with the situation. and that may be helpful to the west, especially the president has said he wants to see the economic pain continued and increased to put more pressure on putin to not give him the resources and to have more distress in russia that would thwart this war effort. he did speak with president zelenskyy today. they went over some of the particulars that president zelenskyy would like to have from the u.s. it was a lengthy conversation. the president has spoken to him more than a dozen times in recent weeks. and this has been an ongoing

close relationship and we've seen president zelenskyy engaging so much with western leaders, and certainly the president is one of those. and president biden is also saying he wants to make certain that ukraine is getting not only military help but economic help because the country at this point has no working economy because it is under siege from russia. and so to provide the kind of support to just keep the government operating in addition to the military help it needs and the humanitarian help. so a complex list of things that the u.s. is working, along with allies and partners as well, but the u.s. component of this was another important data point today from the white house to kyiv and president zelenskyy. >> thank you very much. i'll let you go back and monitor that briefing that is happening now from kate bedingfield. courtney kube i know is listening in to the pentagon. she'll come back with any updates. but jason, let me turn to you here. talk through the sichblt of what we have heard from john kirby from this pentagon assessment about russia repositioning, not withdrawing as courtney

explained, they are being very careful not to say that word, and that lines up with what we're hearing from ukrainian officials too. >> right. actually, hallie, it's great reporting but a lot of this you can kind of estimate the first 48 hours of this invasion went terribly for the russians and every day since the first night of the invasion we've seen logistics, supplies that are hampered, we've seen troops that were beleaguered. probably nobody is giving the ukrainians as much military material as the russians are. they're flipping those tanks, turning them back on the russians. they've run into disaster after disaster. it was not well planned. the previous report that you've got suggests that the intelligence community was not in sync with vladimir. that is of course very seeable in this because we know that as generals, shoigu the defense minister has not provided putin enough information that would have stopped him from making a poor decision on the eve of this decision. so he gambled, he's losing.

the troops are now trying to save face, restrict back or reposition to the east, which is kind of where we think vladimir putin wanted for minimal gains in the beginning of this. he's really coming back to reality thanks to ukrainians' fierce resistance. >> it's interesting to hear you say some of this was foreseeable. when we talk about this declassified intelligence provided to nbc news that kate bedingfield just addressed too, the idea put zinn being misinformed on how badly the russian military is performing, that there's a breakdown in the flow of accurate information getting to putin and that there's persistent tension between putin and the russian military. you see it on screen there. as it relates to what the next steps should be, we heard from british prime minister boris johnson today who said western countries, the u.s. and our allies, should not be even thinking of lifting sanctions on russia until all of its troops are out of ukraine. do you think that's the right move? >> yeah. i think the point we're at now if you want to call it an inflection point, is to get supplies and lethal munitions to the ukrainians as quickly as

possible, as efficiently as possible because if there's a chance to end this early it's going to be ukrainians breaking the siege of mariupol and breaking the siege of chernihiv. if they don't do that, by the time the troops regain and link up with the other russians coming from kyiv you're going to put more of these cities in the same jeopardy. sanctions, yes. maintain those. but remember, those are a long burn problem. they're not going to stop the advance on the ground. to stop the advance on the ground you've got to get the weapons in the hands of ukrainians. last week they blew up a navy vessel. john kirby addressed the u.s. navy in the black sea. it may be time to start flexing our muscle there a little bit. but the point is there's plenty the u.s. and the west can do short of being involved here that can influence the outcome. >> jason beardsley, it's great to have you and your perspective here on the show with us this afternoon. thank you very much. we're turning now to another breaking news story that nbc news has just confirmed in the last couple of minutes. with the white house announcing -- excuse me, with the lifting of what's called

title 42. according to two sources familiar with this plan. title 42 you know is this pandemic-era policy put in place under former president trump, a policy that will officially end in late may. nbc's julia ainsley has that reporting from her sources. talk to us about what you're hearing. >> title 42 was put in place by the trump administration and had long thought to be lifted early on in the biden administration, that it wasn't necessary to stop the spread of covid, to keep kim grants from coming across the southern border. it's been in court battles for a long time now, and now we're und understanding the cdc has said they believe title 42, their authority to implement, can lift at the end of may. that means families coming across the border with young children. that means even single adults can cross the southern border and claim asylum. a return to the status quo of the asylum system that existed precovid. what that means for officials at dhs is there may be some

scrambling going on. they said they may want to do a phased approach so they aren't overwhelmed by the resources at the border. they've also had some sources say that maybe this is giving people too much lead time and might encourage them to leave their homes in central and south america to see if they can now come by may 23rd. but of course the advocacy community says this is long overdue, may 23rd is still too late, and that they want to see a real commitment to see that all of these people get their day in court to have their cases heard, hallie. >> julia, i think it's hard to overstate how much interest there was in this among advocacy groups and among people who follow this issue. this is a highly -- i think it's fair to say a highly anticipated announcement based on what you're hearing from your sources is set to be coming down from the cdc. >> highly anticipated but i can't tell you how often we've been reporting that they were just about to lift it. i remember the july 31st, 2021 deadline we were all expecting. and then there would be another wave. or there might be a surge in immigration and there was speculation they were keeping it in place just to keep those

numbers down. now as we're starting to get into a less restricted covid environment across the country, this is lifting. and it really got into the public eye with ukrainians, as you know, hallie. some ukrainians were at first turned back at the border because of title 42. then more were allowed in. but then of course that begs the other conversation. should ukrainians be allowed in? can you really make the argument they wouldn't carry covid more so than someone from south america? no, you can't. that started to fall apart when it says it was just for the purpose of puck health. that is why the cord orders are causing this now to all be reviewed and now we know should be lifted by late may. >> julia ainsley, thank you very much. we're actually going to have a deeper dive an exactly this he shall as it per tairnz to ukrainians. coming up on my streaming channel on nbc news now. back on the show we are staying close to capitol hill. you know with our team here it is staking out those classified

briefings. we'll get any new reaction from senators as they head out. but first some new movement from the january 6th committee. which former white house trump staffer they're meeting with today. plus the can't's new announcement on covid. what you should know about that government website, what he's calling a pandemic one-stop shop. stay with us. shop stay with us rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some...rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks.

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just in to us here at nbc news, house leadership now in the last couple of minutes saying that they expect to vote next week on those contempt charges against two former trump aides, dan scavino and peter navarro. that anticipated of course when the house returns into session next week. this week the january 6 select committee has been plenty busy of course with a former top aide in the trump white house appearing in front of the committee. chris hodgson, the former legislative director to former vice president mike pence, showing up around 10:00 this morning with -- i understand it wrapped up just this last hour. that's our reporting here. the interview's coming in front of tomorrow's virtual meeting

with the former president's senior adviser and his son-in-law jared kushner. the highest-ranking member of the trump administration and the first member of the trump family so far to meet with the committee. i want to bring in nbc news senior national political reporter sahil kapur. sahil, break down these sort of two pieces of information we're getting it in. it was expected the house would move forward with this contempt vote. we now have a better timeline of when that's happening. p and then we have the continued work of the january 6th select committee. an interview today and then a very high-profile interview set to happen tomorrow. >> reporter: hallie, the contempt vote in the house is all but certain to pass as earlier ones have, and it will go to the justice department. who will have to make the decision about whether to prosecute dan scavino and peter navarro on contempt of congress. now, with chris hodgson he emerged from the room about an hour ago, spoke to the january 6th committee for a total of roughly four hours. we don't know what was said in the meeting. we do know that hodgson was a top aide to former vice president mike pence at the time. before that he worked for steve scalise, the house republican

whip. now on to jared kushner. he's scheduled to give an interview to the january 6th committee tomorrow. kushner's name has not come up very often in the context of the attack on the capitol because he wasn't in washington on that day. he's believed to have been traveling internationally. so the question becomes why does the committee want to talk to him? well, according to my sources there are two reasons for this. the first is they are casting a wide net. their philosophy is that they don't know who's going to have good information. until they talk to everybody about it. and the second is kushner was one of the closest aides to president trump in that white house, entrusted with a massive portfolio where the running joke in washington became that donald trump is counting on jared kushner to deliver everything and world peace. they believe that he can offer a window into former president trump's mindset in the days leading up to january 6th, which they believe is a crucial part of their mandate as well. what was the former president expecting? what were his hopes? what were his desires? what messages if any did jared kushner receive throughout the

day? they believe kushner can help put together some of the puzzle pieces that explain what happened and why january 6th happened even if he wasn't in washington on that day. it's important to remember, hallie, this is not as a result of a subpoena. this is a voluntary interview. and we'll be all over it. >> sahil kapur, thank you so much for that. i know you will be. coming up here on the show, immoral and unpatriotic. those are the new words from one top member of congress about former president trump, who again is asking vladimir putin for a political favor. and then later, inside facebook's nationwide campaign to try to turn the public against tiktok. and which big political firm they're paying to help. we've got one of the reporters behind that exclusive scoop with us coming up. oop with coming up riders! let your queries be known. yeah, hi. instead of letting passengers wrap their arms around us, could we put little handles on our jackets? -denied. -can you imagine? i want a new nickname. can you guys start calling me snake? no, bryan. -denied. -how about we all get quotes

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she gave them $3.5 million. so now i would think putin would know the answer to that. i think he should release it. i think we should know that answer. >> and just this afternoon right as we were coming on the air the former president standing by that statement, not backing away from it. he's referencing this alleged multimillion-dollar payment from the former mayor of moscow's wife to hunter biden and a u.s. investment firm. hunter biden's legal team when contacted by nbc news told us he had no connection to the company that allegedly received this payment. nbc news, our garrett haake, talked with the house intelligence chair, democrat adam schiff, who is to say the least not surprised about donald trump's comments. >> at least he's consistent. consistently immoral and unpatriotic. to be appealing to putin. this man, donald trump, cannot change. he will not change. he is who he is. he will always seek to cheat. he will always seek to get foreign help. it doesn't matter whether putin is attacking russia.

it doesn't matter if people are dying. >> if you're having a little bit of deja vu, it's because this is kind of a repeat of the former president's request, plea back in 2016 when he asked putin to release those hacked e-mails belonging to hillary clinton. and you'll remember when russia's invasion into ukraine first started last month just before it the former president called putin's moves, quote, genius and wonderful. i want to bring in nbc news digital reporter jonathan allen who's been all over this story. jonathan, tell us -- give us the context check here. what do we need to know about this one? >> well, i mean, number one, the sort of broader claim is that hunter biden's had a company that got a payment from the wife of a former mayor of moscow. hunter biden's legal team said just a moment ago that didn't happen because he wasn't a co-founder of the company and had no financial interest in it. but i think more broadly what's interesting here is you've got former president donald trump again -- he's interested in russian intelligence in a very different way than the biden administration and that republicans in congress are

interested in it. the biden administration, republicans in congress want russian intelligence so that they can hurt russia. donald trump wants russian intelligence so that he can cast aspersions on the sitting president of the united states. you go through all the fact checks of all these claims and the one thing that the claim is lacking is any evidence. >> as you're talking to your sources about all this, john, what are you hearing? >> well, you know, i think there is a divide certainly on the democratic side. as you heard adam schiff say, essentially here he goes again about donald trump. you know, on the republican side there's a divide too, which is that some folks want to get past the conspiracy theories while others are leaning into them. on one of the other cable networks one of their nighttime hosts has been promoting this false claim for quite some time. and you know, again, we heard this claim -- you know, you mentioned donald trump appealing to russia for information in 2016. we heard this specific claim about hunter biden not for the first time in the last couple days but during the 2020

election, when all the fact checkers went through it and decided there was no evidence of it and certainly a denial from hunter biden's side. >> jon allen, thank you very much for that breakdown. appreciate it. as we talk about the relationship now between the u.s. and russia more broadly and this incredibly sensitive diplomatic moment, supporters of americans still detained in russia are holding out hope. check out what happened today on pennsylvania avenue. one family whose son has been in a russian prison for more than two years taking their case straight to the white house. we've talked about trevor reed on this show before. kind of a lot. he's a former u.s. marine who was arrested on charges of assaulting russian police back in 2020. allegations the state department has called preposterous. reed was sentenced to nine years in a russian prison, where he is still today. his family now demonstrating right in front of the white house. look at some of these pictures. in the hopes the biden administration will push harder to try to get trevor released. president biden asked about this briefly after his event.

clearly aware that the reeds are in town. here's what he said right after that covid event at the white house. >> i'm going to see if i can get to see them. >> today? >> they're good people. we're trying to work that out. >> the push comes as the white house works to try to free another american, somebody with celebrity status, star wnba player brittani griner. she's been in a russian jail since last month after she was arrested for allegedly possessing cannabis vape cartridges. i want to bring in trevor reed's parents, joey and paula reed. thank you for being here today. >> thank you for having us. >> we've talked before, never in person. i'm glad to have you on set with us as you're here in washington. first, how's trevor doing? what's the latest? >> well, he's in solitary confinement. he was at the hospital for ten days. they didn't give him any treatment. and he says they x-rayed the wrong part of his chest. he has a rib or something sticking out. and he's coughing up blood. and so we do think he does have an active case of tb. he's just not doing well. his health is declining.

>> and now we sent a lawyer to see him on tuesday and the lawyer reported that trevor started a hunger strike on monday to protest being put in solitary confinement while he's injured and ill, which is against russian law, which is -- again, they don't follow their own laws. and then also i think he feels desperate because he feels, since he told us the last time we spoke to him, he's been left behind. >> when was the last time you had a conversation with him? >> a few weeks ago. he hadn't called us for 232 days. >> i remember that. >> and then out of the blue they let him stay out of solitary confinement after seven months and then a week or so later they let him start making phone calls to the embassy, who then relayed the calls to us. we got to talk to him about six or seven times. >> why now? why today? why make this -- pick this moment to come here to the white house and to make your case very publicly now to president biden? you clearly got his attention. >> well, because when president biden came to fort worth three weeks ago we had asked for a meeting then because we were there. that's our back yard. and we were told at the time that they didn't have time to

fit us in the schedule. so we went out there with our signs, and he saw us and he said -- he called me and he said that he would have his staff set up a schedule for a meeting. but it's -- >> when was this? >> this was on march 8th. so this is -- it's been 22 days and we haven't gotten a call. so we figured 22 days is long enough to wait, so we just decided we would come here again and just remind them we still needed to get that meeting scheduled. >> you just heard what president biden said in the last couple of hours. any phone messages in the last couple of hours from the white house? is there an update to share with us? >> not that we know of. we expect something to be coming. so yeah, we anticipate a meeting with him. >> you do. at some point like tonight? tomorrow? obviously soon? >> we hope in the next couple of days. >> we get the impression that quickly. >> okay. i imagine that comes as welcome news? >> absolutely. >> what's your biggest message to the president if you do get a chance to be face to face with him about your son? >> well, paula wants to tell him a little more about our son than he's gotten in some report, you know, from a person in the

government. and remind him that our son was willing to die for him and his family when he guarded him as a vice president at camp david. and you know, and all the things you go through to be a presidential guard and have a yankee y top secret clearance and that he's been what you would expect a prisoner of war to be. he will not talk to the russians about his military service. he's refusing to work for his captors. basically, all the things that you would see in a john wayne movie. even in this trial, in his closing statement he told the judge that i would -- if i'm going to be given a prison sentence i would rather stay in prison an honest man than walk away tomorrow a liar and a coward. everyone in the courtroom was crying. >> and i know it's emotional for you too. >> yes. >> i was there. so -- anyway, we just want to tell him you need to get the americans -- and by the way, you forgot to mention paul whelan. he's been in prison there for

three years and three months, four months. he's been there longer than anyone. accused of being a spy. and that's completely a lie, just like the charges against our son were. and we're not saying that because we're just his parents. we're saying that because of all the evidence and witnesses provided in the trial which i personally witnessed. as the ambassador to russia said, it was a circus of the absurd. it's completely ridiculous. >> this is an exceptionally tense moment with russia right now. right? this is an extraordinary moment with russia. >> it's getting worse. >> yeah, and it's getting -- do you think the spotlight on what's happening with russia, the spotlight on a celebrity like brittani griner, wnba star who's also been detained, do you think that helps put more of a spotlight on trevor's case? >> yes, we do. >> or do you think it makes it harder to get him out? >> no, we think it brought more attention to trevor's case. and we're grateful for that. we're sorry for that and we feel bad for her because we know how horrible the situation is. but yeah-i think it did bring some awareness to trevor's case. >> we know in our son's case and

paul whelan's case the russians have essentially said they want to trade for russians who have been in our prisons for a long time. and who by the way will be released before our son or paul whelan would be released. and we don't understand why this administration has been reluctant to trade for any american prisoners anywhere when that's the only option you have when you're dealing with another superpower. if they want someone returned there's obviously -- they're in a war, and that's not stopping them from doing that. they're sure not going to return prisoners for sanctions. anyway, we believe that this administration needs to start seriously considering a trade for these americans and get them out of there before they either die from the horrid conditions or they have additional charges put on them and they're there forever. >> and that will be your direct ask to president biden if and when you meet with him? >> yes. and not just for trevor and paul and brittani but there's 50 other families that have loved ones being held overseas in other countries who also have prisoners they want back. >> you have to remember for

every country that's asking for a trade we have hundreds of their people in our prisons that we've rounded up all over the world. we've got plenty of people to trade. >> i started this interview by asking how your son was. let me end it, how are you two doing? >> it's been rough, but we don't focus on that. we just mostly focus on what trevor's gone through because it's the roughest on trevor. and he's holding up like a champ, we think. we're very proud of him. but it's hard. i mean, to have everything just whisked away from you overnight. so it's been a long 2 1/2 years for him. >> yeah. >> and again, our health problems and emotional problems we've had are nothing compared to what he's going through. literally a third world gulag as we refer to it. his conditions -- i mean, the conditions russians are in in our prisons, in our federal penitentiaries, they're in like the hilton hotel compared to where our son is at. it's horrible. and again, there's americans in places much worse than he's in.

and we need to get them home, whatever it takes. >> joely and paula reed, thank you so much for being here. i assume you'll change your flight i guess back home if president biden wants to meet tonight or tomorrow? >> we'll do whatever -- we're going to be here till friday anyway, but we'll do whatever we need to do. >> please keep us updated. thank you for being here. nice to see you both in person. a lot of people are thinking of you and your family. >> thank you. >> a lot more to get to here on the show including breaking just the last couple minutes actually, why conspiracy theorist alex jones was just held in contempt of court. we've got that report coming up just after the break.

in the last hour we've gotten word that a connecticut judge is holding noted conspiracy theorist alex jones in contempt because he didn't show up for depositions twice last week as part of a lawsuit from the families of sandy hook shooting victims. the lawsuit filed after jones repeatedly said on his show, infowars, that the massacre was a hoax.

and the harassment those families say those claims caused. he's going to go to try in august. he must give two full days of deposition by april 15th just a couple weeks away or face fines. his attorneys blamed missing his depositions on jones being sick, being emotionally distressed. but he's still been hosting his show. it comes after the families rejected a settlement offer about 4 hours ago that came with a brief apology. jones asking to settle the suit for $120,000 per plaintiff. the lawyers for the families responding "jones wants to escape public reckoning." joining us now is nbc news senior national correspondent kate snow. kate, bring us up to speed about the proceedings today and where things go from here. >> hallie, i just watched that hearing. it was almost an hour long. virtual hearing. with the attorneys, not alex jones himself at this hearing. but it was all about what you just described happened last week where alex jones did not show up two days in a row, wednesday and thursday. he was supposed to sit for a deposition in austin, texas. he didn't show up. he said that he was feeling

sick. later on friday, on his show he said he had a sinus infection. well, today his attorney said that he never tried to escape sitting for a deposition, that he fully intends to and is willing to but argued that arresting him right now, which is what the plaintiffs had wanted, and holding him in contempt, the attorney for jones argued that that would only exacerbate his health condition. on the other side you had the plaintiffs' attorneys arguing that something has to happen to force him to sit down for a deposition, that at this point he has no motivation to essentially sit down. so they were arguing to the judge that she needs to do something to compel him to sit for this deposition. the judge was firm. she said yes, he absolutely has to sit. and what she was going to do, as you said, is hold him in contempt and fine him beginning this friday $25,000 a day, escalating each workday, each weekday, by $25,000. so $25,000 this friday. monday it would become $50,000.

and so on and so on. in the hopes that that would eventually compel him before april 15th to sit down. and if not then there would be further repercussions. and one last thing, you noted, hallie, that yesterday alex jones offered through his attorneys a settlement to the families. $120,000 for each family. they roundly rejected that filing in court. each family filing this so-called offer is a transparent and desperate attempt by alex jones to escape a public reckoning under oath with his deceitful profit-driven campaign against the plaintiffs and the memory of their loved ones lost at sandy hook. lawyers for jones say, hallie, that they've been trying to settle for over a year and that they remain interested in having those talks. but as you said, the judge was firm today. they said this trial's moving forward, it starts in august. hallie? >> kate, real quick just so i understand, you mentioned the fines that jones is now facing. is there a chance he ends up arrested? >> well, so she did not choose to arrest him -- or to actually

move on that today even though the plaintiffs had asked for that possibility. it's unclear to me whether -- i guess that could still be a possibility if he continues to oppose sitting for a deposition. but again, his attorneys are saying he's willing, it's just a matter of timing. >> kate snow, thank you so much for staying on top of this one. appreciate it. next up, who facebook is paying to trash tiktok as the real threat to society. the reporter with those receipts is here after the break. wayfair has everything i need to make my home totally me.

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in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. new reporting today on this ongoing social on social fight. "the washington post" reporting that facebook's parent company is spending big money to try to take down tiktok. who are they paying to do this? "the post" having emails showing that facebook is working with targeted victory to plant stories about the alleged harm to kids. a campaign director said the dream would be to get stories with headlines like from dancing to danger and writing letters to editors about the dangers of

tiktok like claims about trends that started on facebook and roping in politicians to turn the public tide against tiktok. joining me is taylor lawrence. great to see you back on the show. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me here. >> we have a company in facebook plagued with issues of misinformation spreading widely on the platform and now paying to spread they hope harmful information about tiktok. >> yeah. exactly. the irony is not lost especially the way that facebook has had such an impact in local news and now trying to cede the anti-tiktok stories in papers. >> talk about the reporting and the best on the beat, did anything surprise you looking

through the emails? >> yeah. i was surprised how aggressive it was. also the dog whistle nature of it. it's dangerous for kids and anti-china sentiment. both messages that resonat especially with the conservative base and sounded almost qanon-like as save the children. meanwhile the rumors started on facebook. but yeah, i was struck by like the messages. >> let me talk about the responses from the companies because targeted victory said they were proud of the work done with metta and tic-tac is deeply concerned and targeted said to

be consistent. will they continue on the path? >> i think facebook's statement shows that it's completely unapologetic about the campaign. you know? they really have kind of been open about it. they didn't push back hard on it. and i think their statement shows that they feel that this is valid and wild because there's a difference of valid criticism and underhanded attack campaign. this is the type of thing you see in politics with opo research and planting op-eds from allegedly concerned parents drafted with metta. it is shocking but at the same time i guess they feel like this is business these days. >> how should a discerning news consumer know to be skeptical or suspicious about a negative

story of tiktok? what are the clues that metta could be behind? >> absolutely. you have to really consider where you get the information from. i think these narratives emerge especially in the local press. if you get statements from parents groups or cops and no links that raises alarms. go to journalists you trust and not just a link. if you see local news stories and look at representable tech journalists not talking about it that's a red flag. >> thank you. appreciate it. thank you for watching this hour of msnbc. for now "deadline: white house" starts after this break. ts afte.

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