there. those are being seen in federal courts. what is next? what they settled on is that the lgbtq families have to be erased from public schools. that will certainly not be the end of this. >> you may not be interested in the cultural or but the cultural war is interested in you. mark joseph stern, thank you so much. we are all in on this there's a night. the rachel maddow show starts at level she, good evening ali. >> thank you, chris. thank you at-home for joining us this hour. rachel is on hiatus. i am joining you once again tonight from the city of lviv, ukraine. we have a lot to get to tonight and just a few moments i'm gonna speak with the pentagon spokesperson, john kirby, about the military situation on the ground here in ukraine. i will also be joined by the former top russia expert on the national security council, fiona hill, and we will get some expert help understanding the latest revelations about the u.s. justice department

widening its investigation into january six and inching closer to donald trump's inner circle. we start tonight about 300 miles from here, just 50 miles north of ukraine's capital kyiv at the site of the worst nuclear site disaster in history, chernobyl. 36 years ago, an explosion at the soviet nuclear reactor there sent a cloud of radioactive particles across the region. an area stretching for miles around the plant has been radioactive ever since. people are not allowed, still to this day, into certain parts of what is called an exclusion zone. just a couple years after the disaster, and news and science correspondent got to take a brief trip inside to see the aftermath. >> which had been the home of 50,000 people, workers and families, is not deserted. helicopters pass overhead to measure the radioactive activity. there are still several hundred

times more than normal but millions of times less than what it was the day of the accident. also deserted is the town of chernobyl. and villages surrounding the area. two years ago, this was a thick forest of pine trees. now only one tree stance, but this tree too is dying. >> that the forest of pine trees can to be called the red force because of all the reddish color basically. the pine trees turned into as they died from the high levels of radiation. the entire force was also boulders and buried. when nbc news returned to chernobyl on the 20th anniversary of the disaster, vegetation there was still highly radioactive. >> while radiation levels have returned to normal in some parts of the 18 mile safety zone around and now close reactor, there is still plenty

off limits. the radiation varies wildly. here it is elevated, but not too high. if i walk over here just a couple of feet and put this down, it jumps ten times. part of the reason is this mosque concentrates radiation. 20 years after the nuclear catastrophe, chernobyl is still a forbidden land. >> that was 16 years ago, and it is still a forbidden land, particularly the red for us. it remained so radioactive that not even highly trained workers at the nuclear plant which is still in operation or law to go in. when russian forces came steaming into ukraine five weeks ago, tonight, one of the first things they did was seize the chernobyl nuclear plant. according to workers at the nuclear plant, those russian troops came rolling in right through the red force. two workers told reuters that they watched a convoy of

russian military vehicles drive in on an abandoned road right through the red force, kicking up a big column of radioactive dust and setting off multiple radiation safety sensitive. the workers called the russian movement suicidal. thus the russian soldiers in held will likely cause internal radiation in our bodies. the workers told reuters that none of the russian troops wore any protective gear during the weeks that they spent at the plant with them. when they asked the russian soldiers if they knew about the 1986 nuclear disaster in chernobyl, quote, they do not have a clue. they had no idea what kind of facility there are at, and quote. today, the russians handed chernobyl back to the ukrainians at the five weeks. ukrainian officials say two columns of russian forces left the plant and headed north to butler's. why have they pulled out? according to ukraine state power company that runs the chernobyl plant, at least some of the russian troops began

suffering from radiation sickness after digging trenches in the contaminated red force. once the others began, they packed up in fled. obviously, we have no way of confirming that account from ukrainian officials, but it would certainly fit with everything we know thus far about russia's botched ground invasion. inexperienced troops with limited knowledge of the mission and nuclear orders. today, the chief upper in signals intelligence agency said morale among russian troops is miserable, and that they refused orders, sabotage their own equipment and even accidentally shot down one of their own aircrafts. the ukrainians say that any drawn out of russian forces in kyiv or nearby chernihiv is not a peace offering. it is just because the russians are being beaten by the ukrainians or potentially sickened by radioactive thus that they did not even realize they were kicking up. meanwhile, but the pentagon and nato said russian troops are

not withdrawing from areas around the capital. they will be regrouping and repositioning for the next visitor or salt. that next phase may be the focus on ukraine's east, trying to finally capture cities like kharkiv admirable, cities that russia have already devastated from the air. but no one really believes that vladimir putin is finished with ukraine's capital. as sky news is alex crawford reports tonight, even in the kyiv suburbs where ukrainian forces have won some of the pivotal victories, residents expect that the russians will be back. >> irpin it's still far from safe, and we were taken into the town at speed with armed guards. this is the closest the russians have gotten to the capital, just a few kilometers away. this is where they bought some of their most savage street battles. the fighting embalming went on for more than a month, in parts of the town, there is hardly a building or home that is untouched. ukrainian soldiers are still

very much on red alert here. >> stop. >> we are way through, but they are extremely worried about any minds or traps the russians may have left behind. this is what is left of much of irpin, what terror must of been felt that those living in these apartment blocks as shell at the shell came raining in, murder after mortar, and heavy artillery? the places littered with unexpected ordinance, in playgrounds, and residential courts, nowhere was off limits and there was no mercy shown for irpin residents. people try to pack their cars to get out of here as the shelling came in. you can see the streets strewn would -- even hitting the vehicles as they tried to escape. there is still retrieving the many dead here. the exact numbers that have died will take some time to confirm. survivors talk of burying

relatives and friends in parts and playgrounds during the monthlong bombardment. it is no wonder any of these reports are still alive. the last few to be brought out show terrible signs of suffering and pain. >> have you gotten apple, he ask us. he looks very gong, and his feet are in a terrible state. most of the town infrastructure has been bombed, so he and the others had no electricity, little food and water, and constant shelling infighting. when did you last eat, we asked. three days ago, comes the reply. we found a few hearty residents that managed to stick it out to the very worst. the near constant attacks have seen the town virtually emptied. with all those we spoke to believing the russians will be back, maybe two irpin, certainly to take the capital again. all their lives have been altered beyond comprehension.

yet as we left, those remaining still showed the incredible defiance and fortitude. >> sky news is alex crawford in the kyiv suburb of irpin, it is the perfect image of the devastation that russian forces are leaving behind even when they are losing. one question that u.s. officials have been raising this week as whether vladimir putin even knows about the losses his forces have been suffering in places like irpin. they say declassified u.s. intelligence suggests that putin's military has not been honest with him about what's happening on the ground because they are free to telling the truth. obviously, putin knows there is a problem because putin knows ukraine is not conquered yet. if morale is low and there is a lack of communication all the way up to the chain of command, it may be very hard to predict what this next phase the vision will look like. joining us now is pentagon press secretary john kirby, admiral kirby, we appreciate

you making time to be with us this evening. the kremlin today is pushing back on the claim from u.s. intelligence that president putin's aides are not being honest with him about what is happening on the ground in ukraine. tell me about the concern yoga, if that is true? if vladimir putin is not receiving on his battlefield intelligence from his advisers, what's that mean? >> one thing it could mean is that once he does become fully informed, he might overreact. he has already escalated this conflict, you don't look any further than the dreadful images that are coming out of places like mariupol and kyiv, to see how hard he continues to strike ukrainian citizens and ukrainian cities. he can maybe overreact, if he is not being fully informed. we do not know when he will do when he finds out the full scope of his military failures inside ukraine. the second thing that is concerning for us is what does this mean for the negotiation table.

if he is not in fully informed about how poorly they are doing on the ground, then it could definitely affect the negotiating tactics at the table to the degree to which he's able, if he's willing, to negotiate in good faith with the zelenskyy government. >> that is one valid concern. is he going to a negotiating table with kirk information? you have also in particular been describing russia's movements in and around kyiv as repositioning, as opposed to de-escalation, which is what the russian negotiators suggested the other day in assemble. what is the latest intelligence that you could tell us about troops and what they are doing around kyiv? is there any indication that they are repositioning forces pulling back and refocusing on eastern ukraine? >> what we have seen is a small number, less than about 20% assessed, is there assembled force around kyiv, moving away

around the city more towards north. it is not clear where they will go, how long they will be their, or what's the ultimate purposes? but we don't believe is that he's planning to send them home. because the majority of the troops that he still has around kyiv are still there. they are in defensive positions, they are not moving in on the city. but the city is still coming under air strikes and missile strikes every single day. when we think he's going to do is refit these troops, resupply them and put them back into ukraine for offensive operations other elsewhere. we do know exactly where or exactly when, or we can go by is our other assessment that russia is trying to prioritize the donbas region in the eastern part of the country. it is possible that some of these troops will be moved from kyiv over to the donbas to try to reinforce their offensive operations there. >> there is also new reporting a month ago when, we had word

about a fire at a nuclear plant in zaporizhzhia, this is a massive concern all around europe, not the least ukraine. there is reporting today that russia is pulling back from chernobyl because of radiation exposure. he seemed to suggest in today's briefing that it is not necessarily radiation exposure that might be causing that the pullback, when more can you tell us about the? >> when we think -- we do assess that some other troops are leaving chernobyl, the general assessment is that this is all part of repositioning effort. we have no indication that there is a radiation problem or health hazard at this time. look, we will continue to watch him on of this as best we can. our best estimate, our best assessment at this point, is part of his repositioning effort, the ability to take troops out of some area and move them into another area. >> today, the head of britain's prince equivalent of the nsa, said russia's troops were

refusing orders, so might be sabotaging their own equipment. there was one report of shootings on their own aircraft. my question to you, do you understand where the dynamic is going on amongst russian forces? does the pentagon believe this is happening on a wide scale, or is this something that is largely very specific and isolated? >> i cannot confirm every item in that british report about shooting down aircraft and everything they put in their. that said, ali, we have seen poor unit coalition, morale, poor leadership. we have plenty of anecdotal evidence that at times in a places, russian soldiers have simply given up, they simply walked away from the fight. that they, in some cases, sabotage their own vehicle so that they would run out of fuel and not be able to replace that feel. we know that they have had morale and cohesion problems.

born, we think, largely from the fact it is a conscript force. these are largely draft these, young man who had no idea that they would be invading another country. they thought they would be going on a training exercise. they were not fully prepared and ready for actual combat. we know they're having problems like that. they are also having leadership issues, commanding control. not only the ability other generals to talk to one another, but the willingness to talk to one another and coordinator operations between say, air and ground. there is very little of the joint effectiveness that you'd expect from him on a motor these days >> admiral, i just want to explore this a little more with you because of your mill long military expertise. tell me about that distinction in more row where we're seeing these ukrainian troops who, going into this thing doesn't look like they were equipped to take on one of the largest armies in the world, but the morale of these trips seem to be different from the morale of

the ukrainian troops. tell me how that plays out monochrome rounding troops. >> morale is not to be underestimated in the military unit. it can be a terrific force multiplier. i mean, it can actually add exponentially to units effectiveness on the field of battle or etsy, on warships. the way our unit feels about itself, about its effectiveness, its competency, about the teammates, about themselves, all of that can have a huge impact on effectiveness and efficiency and battle and in combat. we are not seeing that on the russian side. and we have plenty of anecdotal evidence, as i, said that they are not fighting well, that they are not fully informed. they're even having trouble feeding their troops, and fueling their vehicles. there's a lot of problems that the russians have caused on themselves. on the ukrainian side, however, morale is very high. they are -- they have taken losses, they're suffering, they're watching their friends and families have to leave, they're seeing the

cities destroyed. yet, this has really fired them up. they have got -- their getting weapons in the systems that they need to fight back effectively and they're using those weapons. and they have been very agile, very nimble on the battlefield, choosing when and where and how they are going to defend, and how they are going to strike in very devastating ways for the russian military. >> let's talk about those weapons that they're getting. the u.s. has already supplied ukraine with a lot of lethal weapons, more arriving every day. if this war grinds on for months, is the pentagon willing to and in a position to, continue supplying the ukraine with weapons to fight russia at the current pace that we're doing? >> president biden has been very clear that we are going to continue to support ukraine's ability to defend itself, as long as we can, as fast as we can. you're, right there is material arriving even as you and i are speaking and that is coming on the last package that the president approved. at the 800 million dollar

security package that he approved a little more than a week ago. there's already been half a dozen or so shipments of that material getting into the region, we're gonna work to get it into the hands of the ukrainians as fast as we can. and i'll add that while we're focused on the security assistance, the material, we have to remember the training. for the last eight years, the united states, great britain, canada, other allies have been devoting a lot of training in two ukrainian armed forces to help them use this material. so it's not just about the stuff, it's about the way they use the stuff and how they know how to use these weapon systems. and that came at a great effort by so many allies to help train them over the last eight years. some >> u.s. intelligence on this has been fairly accurate since even before this invasion started. there was one thing, though, that was an estimate that it would not be long, if russia through everything it had and all those troops ahead lined up, this would end sooner than it has. we are now in the sixth week of

this war, and one of the enduring mysteries is the airspace above ukraine. for outside observers, they have been curious as to why the russian air force has not been able to achieve air superiority. what is your take on this? >> one of the reasons is because of how nimble the ukrainians have been with their air defense systems. they have short and long range air defense systems. they're using them very effectively and quite efficiently. they are being very careful about how they are defending their skies. and they have been able to make it very difficult for russian pilots to fly inside ukrainian airspace. in fact, most air strikes that you are seeing, the dentist you're seeing, most of those airstrikes are actually emanating and never coming -- the aircraft are never leaving russian airspace or belarusian airspace. they are not venturing in to the ukrainian airspace and if they do, they don't stay long. of, course a lot of the airstrikes are missile strikes. they're being watched from air fields and insides inside

russia or belarus. the ukrainians have been very effective in how they are trying to defend their skies. we assess that the skies are contested. here's the other thing, we're also working with other allies and partners who have long range air defense systems that we know the ukrainians know how to use, like the s-300, and we try to work with them to see if they can provide some of those systems to help replenish the stocks of ukrainians. >> admiral, to the extent that russia has said and might be really -- refocusing some of its efforts on eastern ukraine, which is where this all started, what are your concerns about that? >> this is an area that has been a hot water for eight years, ali. this is a piece of ground that russia has long coveted and long wanted. we think they certainly overextended themselves in the early weeks of this conflict. talking on multiple lines of access, north, south, east, trying to take the capital city, and they realize that they're not gonna do that.

so looks like they're going to redouble their efforts in the donbas region, which they have been fighting over now for eight years. it's unclear whether this is a negotiating tactic, mr. putin wants to get more leverage at the table because he has more ground in the eastern part of the country, or whether that is in fact a more limited goal he's trying to achieve, just get the donbas region, get that land bridge to crimea, and call it a day. we're not sure where they intend to go on this. but one thing we know for sure, there are lots of ukrainian forces in that part of the country and they are still there, and they are still fighting very very hard. the russians have not been able to take that donbas region. we will see if they're gonna redouble their efforts, if they're gonna add reinforcements, we think that's what's in their minds. but believe me, the ukrainians have made very clear, not just inward but indeed, that they will continue to fight for that part of the country. >> retired admiral john kirby from the pentagon, we appreciate your time, thanks for joining us, sir. >> good sir, good to be with you. >> we much more ahead here

tonight, including new reporting about how the justice department's expanding its investigation into january six, and, next, we're gonna talk about someone who's advised three presidents on russia and was a witness in one of their impeachment hearings. fiona hill joins us live after this. ve after this

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peace negotiations are said to him you zoom talks tomorrow, whether ukraine can trust what russia is saying that any moment is a real live wire issue. there is what russia says it's doing, and then what russia is actually doing. this is an article that the defense state run russian news agency tasks put out after tuesday's negotiations and assemble, quote, the russian ukrainian talks that took place in his stumble were constructive, the head of the russian delegation told reporters, he said that moscow

may two de-escalatory steps. one was offering to hold a meeting between president putin and zelenskyy, and two, that russian troops would drastically reduce their activities toward kyiv and turn it off which is what the russians call the ukrainian city chernihiv. as far as we can see and step number two, there has been no drastic reduction of russian military activity in cities like keep. this was the nato secretary general's assessment of this this afternoon. >> according to our intelligence, russian units are not withdrawing but we positioning. russia is trying to regroup, resupply, and reinforce, its offensive in the donbas region. at the same time, russia maintains pressure on kyiv and other cities. so we can expect additional offensive actions bringing even

more suffering. >> ukrainians have approach these negotiations from the get-go with a healthy amount of mistrust. the ukrainian foreign minister even warned negotiators not to each, eat, drink, or talk to anything while meeting with their russian counterparts for fear of poisoning. but at the end of the day, there's only one person in control of what russia does here, and that's vladimir putin. and authoritarian who is not always known for his a difference to the truth. but regardless of russia's track record or trustworthiness, these negotiations are not something that ukraine can afford to write off. ukrainians cannot get tricked into giving russia time to regroup and gaining strategic military advantage. but at the same time, ukrainians want peace and distasteful as it is to negotiate with an aggressor, for the moment, without that no-fly zone that ukraine is begging nato for, it may be the only viable route available. again, the next round of these talks will continue via video

conference tomorrow. so how should we be looking at them. our next guest, fiona hill, was a key witness in president trump's first impeachment trial, the trial about trump withholding military aid at a white house meeting with president zelenskyy in an effort to extort ukraine into announcing a face fake investigation into trump's political opponent, joe biden. fiona hill also advised each of the past three presidents, george w. bush, barack obama, and donald trump, on u.s. russia relations. and i have a ton of questions for her. thankfully, she joins us now. fiona hill is the former white house adviser on russia. she's the author of there is nothing for you here, finding opportunity in the 21st century. doctor hill, thank you for joining us tonight. it's good to see you again. >> likewise, ali, good to see you too. >> there is an independent pollster in russia, beloved a center, that released a poll

today which shows 83% of russians approve of vladimir putin's actions in ukraine. this is up from 69% by the same pollster in january. i know that polling in an authoritarian state like russia has to come with a very big grain of salt, but the dissatisfaction of the russian people has been influential in the past, including in afghanistan. how do you read this polling or do you ignore it entirely? >> you can't ignore it. what it's telling us it's a couple of things. first of all, it's completely consistent with the propaganda efforts at home by the russian government. remember, right from the very beginning this is not being portrayed as a raw. they are in fact criminal penalties that could be applied to anyone who uses the word war. the term is special military it peroration. and for months, if not, years putin and the kremlin have been explaining to the russian people that this is necessary, this kind of intervention, because of the nature of the ukrainian regime, all these

accusations about ukraine being run by nazis, evoking the kind of struggles that the russian people were engaged in during world war ii, for example. and the whole depiction of the war in the donbas region that you have been talking about as being pretty much driven by aggression by ukraine. a lot of focus on casualties in donbas. even now, the depictions of casualties in ukraine are being blamed on the ukrainians themselves, using civilians as hostages, for example. there's a widespread view in russia as a result of all this propaganda that the united states, the west, and nato, are all responsible for forming this conflict in the first place. so this is in fact a project of that propaganda. and then there is also the linkage with putin himself. putin's been in power, as well now know, for 22 years. he's become qatar menace with the state. asking people about their views is pretty much asking them about how patriotic they are to russia. and under these circumstances

where there's a sense that russia is under threat and under siege, which of course has been portrayed by the kremlin, people are rallying around the flag. it's not at all surprising that we are seeing this. and i think what it does is tell us the difficulty that we're gonna have, we, at large, the diplomatic community, and the ukrainians are going to have, and actually making any traction because many of the statements that putin is making, including those reports that you just laid out in terms of what they are saying about the war after domestic consumption, to make sure that the view of what is happening here is pretty much entrenched. so that there is no pushback or blow back on the domestic front for putin. doctor hill, your book talked about how long you have studied this for and how long you understand it, that russia spent a lot of time on fruitless wars and other places. i guess i have to ask you there is a domestic consumption of information, then there is the economic changes in russia. there is the funerals, the

parents of soldiers who are dying, the fact that 30 years of economic achievement has been pulled back as a result of the sanctions. how do you think russians to get this information square their daily life and the changes they have experience in the last month with what they're hearing? >> i think this will be the interesting question about how this plays out overtime. we have already seen that there are people who are opposed to it. there have been an uptick in protests action, and an uptick in arrest at hisses result. the government tries to get people off the street so does not get any momentum. there has been a careful -- thinking about alexei navalny, he was a figure sitting in jail, there was an effort to resuscitate him just a few months before this invasion. now, of course, he has gotten further penalties extending his time in prison and in incarceration. there is clearly a worry about

this phenomenon that you are laying out there about more domestic dissent and protests. we have also seen tens of thousands of russians clearly opposed to the war leaving russia, leaving for countries around. we have been seeing that these meetings between the ukrainians and russians have been taking place and istanbul. assemble is now full of russians protesting the roar, including i'm not totally true bias, a very senior figure who was responsible for putin's rise within the political system. he has been recently seen a stumble in exile. we are seeing developments here. i think there might be more time before a really starts to have an impact. one key indicator here is the public reaction from one people start to realize the high casualties of russian troops, not just those killed, but also injured. the fact that parents of conscripts realize their children will not come home. in each of the other rushing

conflicts, that eventually had some kind of impact on public sentiment. it might not sway putin himself, who has a high tolerance for casualties, this is not really affect him personally in any way, but a real start to have an impact on the russian public. then we will have to see how much pressure on top of the economic downturn that that will start to put on the outer rims of the kremlin. all the political people who may eventually feet up the chain of information. >> you heard my conversation with admiral kirby, there is speculation from the white house and eu officials that vladimir putin is not hearing the truth about military failures in ukraine because his advisors are too afraid to bring him the bad news. that's unrealistic you? >> that the sun realistic. look, and these types of systems, there is a shooting the messenger problem. many people will be very nervous about bringing putin bad news.

he himself has become convinced of his infallibility having been in power for so long. and having up until now, so many successes. he clearly miscalculated. people are having a hard time to tell him this. i think it is also very smart to be having these discussions, with the intelligence being put out there, that will be one way up to turn back as well. putin will be seeing these reports and asking about them. it may be, again, as the reports come out, as the uk and united states intelligence community make this information available and talked about publicly, that information will filter back to putin. the only thing is what he will do, just as admiral kirby described, he will figure out how to regroup and adapt, how to double down in many respects, to still try and see if his original goals are salvageable. putin has put together a contingency plan if he knows

things go wrong, he will not be thinking, how he can pull things right, or how he can reapply himself or the russian military at the task at hand. >> doctor hill, we are always appreciative of your time. fiona hill is the former white house adviser on russia, and the author of a remarkably important book called, there's nothing for you here, funding opportunity in the 21st century. doctor hill, thank you for a time. >> thank you so much, ali. >> up next, we will be joined by one of the reporters that broke a story that the justice department is expanding the number of people it is investigating over generous excess. it is getting closer to donald trump's inner circle. p's inner circle that oddly satisfying feeling when you don't do it yourself. the justice department remains

committed to holding all january six perpetrators at any level accountable under law, whether they were present that they or were otherwise criminally responsible for the assault on our democracy. we will follow the facts wherever they leave. >> attorney general merrick garland earlier this year vowing that investigators at the justice department will follow evidence of wrongdoing at any level that they came across while investigating the january 6th attack. federal prosecutors have charged more than 775 involved

in the attack. since garland's comments, the department has brought serious conspiracy charges against members of far right wing groups who they claim coordinated and planned the attack. despite those prosecutions, there have been concern among many that the justice department is limiting its investigative focus to those that physically stormed the capitol. they are ignoring the actions of the former president and his allies that led the broader effort to overturn the 2020 election. just this week, members of the january six committee appeared to be visibly frustrated with the justice department for not bringing criminal charges against some trump associates that refused to cooperate with the investigation. the question everybody's mind seems to be why is the justice department doing about the numerous, far reaching efforts to try and overturn the legitimate presidential election of 2020? over the last 24 hours, we may have started to get answers.

the washington post was the first to break the news yesterday that the justice department is expanding its probe, reporting in the past two months, a federal grand jury has issued subpoena requests to some officials and former president donald trump's orbit who assisted in planning, funding and executing the january 6th rally. the new york times then followed with its own story, noting that the doj has substantially widened its investigation. quote, seeking investigation about people more closely tied to president trump. according to grand jury subpoenas that were reviewed by the new york times, and now encompasses the possible involvement of other government officials and trump's attempts to obstruct the certification of biden's victory, and the push by some trump allies to promote slates of fake electors, and quote. what do we make about these two new reports detailing an expansion of the justice department's investigation, and could it reach as high as the

former president? joining us now is devlin barrett, the lead byline on the washington post story yesterday, which first broke the news that the justice department is branching out it's january six investigation. good to see you, thank you for joining us. your reporting is that the subpoena requests have gone out to what your officials described as officials and former president donald trump's orbit. would you take that to mean? who are these officials, could they include members of his administration, close associates, financial backers? >> i think the way to think about this set of information demands that they're looking for whatever one's role was in january six. remember, there's a lot of different things happening on january 6th and part of the challenge for investigators is unpacking all the different pieces and seeing how those different pieces work together. obviously, i pink this was a long awaited step, obviously

you mention that there have been some criticisms about from the justice department from not doing this sooner. but i think it was an expectation that they would eventually do it. for some folks, not just justice department, they think they could've done it sooner than they did. but what they're trying to do is essentially broaden the picture of all the activity on january six. and frankly, even activity before january 6th is becoming important in the investigation. >> we know that the committee virtually for six hours interrogated him for christian. what happened there? >> we haven't heard a lot about that. one thing to keep in mind and this gets a little confusing because there are so many different arms to the government's, the committee's work is very different from the criminal investigation. and it's pretty unusual to have a full-throated committee congressional investigation going on at the same exact time as the criminal doj, fbi

investigation. that's fairly unusual, even and sort of the hyperactive world of washington, the way it is now. and i think some of the tension points you're seeing and some of the distressed or confusion, or concern you're seeing, is because those two forces are rarely in play at the same time. there's not a great deal of understanding or information sharing between those two things. >> and there's been some very vocal criticism, particularly of members of the january six committee about what the department of justice is or isn't doing. what is your sense of it? are they starting to converge, are they working on parallel tracks and is the department of justice, as you mention, possibly responding to that criticism? or is this just unfolding the way the department of justice was going to see it unfold? >> i think the department is very much aware of the criticism, but i think the best way to think about this is parallel tracks. the other thing to keep in mind is that the justice department investigations tend to go much slower than the public or the

congress expects or wants them to go. so i think -- i don't think this tension is going away, especially because the committee is trying to wrap up its work, in the summer, but i think you're going to see essentially parallel courses going through this process. i think you're going to see more and more indications that the justice department is looking into some of these things that are of concern to the committee, that are of concern to the public, but they're gonna do it at their own pace. and i don't think the criticism that it's not fast enough, i think the criticism will stay there, but obviously, this indication is a big step forward in a lot of people's minds and the direction they want it to see the justice department going. >> devlin, great reporting from you on your team. thanks for joining us tonight, devlin barrett is the washington post correspondent covering this. congratulations on the scoop, by the way. >> thanks ali. >> when we come back, russia is

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well as ones that travel and international waters are all outfitted with automatic identification systems. telecast is that broadcast it ships location to other ships and to authorities that manage and monitor maritime traffic. this is the kind of thing that powers websites for shopping nerds. maritime dot come which shows you the location of a mind-boggling number of ships around the world. from this russian icebreaker from the rnc to the far north, to an american flag research vessel just off of antarctica, and the weeks before russia invaded ukraine, if you are watching maritime traffic dot com, you could follow the progress of yachts that were owned or linked to russia's rich and powerful as they fled to friendlier waters like the

yacht graceful, believed to be one of two yachts belonging to vladimir putin which made it safely to russian harbor on february 10th before anyone can impose sanctions and empowers on him. since the invasion, russian linked diaz also started to go dark. they basically turn off their monitors and disappeared off the map. you cannot see sweat you cannot see. and the same thing is happening with russian oil tankers. a company named windward maritime ai which provides shipping to a variety of customers realized an uptick of russia affiliated oil shipments where the ships trans fathers stopped broadcasting the locations. so-called dark activity among russian affiliated oil tankers is up by 600% compared with before the war began. that's according to windward a. there are good reasons for

ships to go dark, if they are shipping sailing years somalia which is riddled with pirates. but in this case, they don't want the bad publicity that is associated with buying oil from russia right now as it invades a sovereign nation. in the united states, the loss of russian oil from the global market is exacerbating america 's own oil problems specifically oil gasoline prices with just adding to our inflation problem. president biden announced today a plan to push oil prices down by releasing 1 million barrels of oil a day from the reserve for the next six months. that is the biggest release of oil from that emergency stockpile since it was created, nearly 50 years ago. but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to how much petroleum the united states consumes, which is nearly 20 million barrels a day. u.s. crude oil prices did drop today because of the news, but it's too soon to see whether prices at the gusts pump will

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we're gonna see you again tomorrow, it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. lawrence, i'm grateful for what you're covering tonight because i've been so preoccupied with the war coverage here, and there's some big things going on at home, the january six hearings, the developments at the department of justice, and the ginni thomas socket that continues. i understand that you're going into that deeply tonight. >> yes, and ali, i'm going to cover this in this hour. it's teamwork. >> i'm happy to do it my friend, you have a good show. we will show you later in this hour extraordinary video of the head of british intelligence describing the