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i wouldn't do that. good day from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome to "alex witt reports." i'm katy tur filling in for alex. it is day 38 of russia's war in ukraine, and here is what we

know right now. we begin, though, with a warning. this new video is graphic. it was taken in bucha, a city northwest of kyiv that endured heavy shelling from russian forces, and we are not even showing you the most disturbing shots. it does show bodies scattered along the roadways there. the discovery came as russian forces retreated from in and around kyiv, leaving a trail of damaged russian tanks and equipment. ukrainian officials now fear fighting in the south and east will escalate as russian forces leave around kyiv and zero in on taking mariupol as well as more territory in the donetsk and luhansk regions. as the pentagon plans to send $300 million more to ukraine including drones and machine guns, president zelenskyy is once again asking for planes. >> translator: we don't want a

million of quality bulletproof vests or some special brand helmets. just give us missiles. give us airplanes. you cannot give us f-18 or f-19 or whatever you have. give us the old soviet planes. that's all. give them into my hands. give me something to defend my country with. >> today was all about evacuating civilians trapped by fighting. ukrainian officials say they evacuated more than 4,000 people from mariupol, donetsk, and houston. and after a ukrainian general sounded an alarm, officials in a tiny pro-russian section of moldova say russian troops there are not massing to conduct provocations in ukraine. also new msnbc news now confirms ukraine's military helicopters were involved in yesterday's attack on a fuel storage facility in the russian city of belgorod. so far, ukraine has neither confirmed nor denied involvement

in that attack. joining us now is ali and claudia. ali, i want to ask you about something that president zelenskyy said, a claim that he made that as the russians retreat from in and around kyiv, they are mining houses, and in some cases, even mining dead bodies. >> reporter: that's right, katy. i mean, it's hardly surprising that the russians are doing this. they've been playing a dirty war from the very beginning, but as they retreat from those positions, not really fair to say retreat, they've been pushed back by a very fierce fight by the ukrainians that have been holding on very hard to those suburbs to make sure the russians don't get into the capital, kyiv, which would be the crown jewel for them. but as they get pushed back from these places, they're mining all of these places, making it difficult not only for the ukrainian army but making it very difficult for the civilians that have been forced out of their towns, homes, villages to go back there.

don't forget, these are many children, women, that have left these areas that probably want to go back there now that the russians have been pushed back, and it's going to be a very dangerous place for them when you're mining bodies, putting booby traps around the place. one good thing is at least they are being pushed back but they are under no illusions here, even though they've been pushed back, they feel like once the emphasis has shifted back from the east on to kyiv, there will be renewed fighting there. let's take a listen to what president zelenskyy had to say a little earlier.

>> reporter: so, he's under no illusions that this is still going to be a very tough, very long battle ahead, especially as now the focus is going to shift on to the donbas area where they have been saying for days that they're expecting very heavy fighting there, so we're probably going to see a lot more shelling there, a lot more missiles there, and they're going to also concentrate on mariupol. they haven't given up on mariupol, which is a cascading humanitarian disaster. only a trickle of people have been let out of mariupol, but the bulk of the sort of about 170,000 people remain there, and it's very unlikely that the russians are going to allow some meaningful evacuation of that place until they've taken control of it. but that's a big fight with them, with the very far right azov battalion, which are in mariupol, so that's going to be

a very hard fight for the russians, and there's also going to be a tough fight in the donbas area, so the focus is going to be on the far east of the country and the south right now. if they're successful there, they may then turn their attention again to kyiv and other cities further west. >> a retreat, not really. a pushback. and new comments today from pope francis on the war. the pope on a trip to malta implicitly criticizing vladimir putin for the first time. saying he's considering also a trip to ukraine, to the war zone. nbc's claudio lo vango was on that plane. what did he tell you? >> reporter: hey, katy, when we journalists follow the pope on trips abroad like this one in malta, on the flight out, the pope comes at the back of the plane to greet us one by one and we have the very brief opportunity to ask him a quick

question, and today, my question was, are you considering or taking into consideration the invitation to visit or to travel to the capital of ukraine, kyiv? now, you may remember that that invitation was made by the mayor of kyiv in the middle of march when the mayor said, if the pope comes to kyiv, he will save lives and he will achieve peace, and the pope's answer to my surprise and everybody's surprise, honestly was, right away, yes. it's on the table. which doesn't necessarily mean that he is definitely going to travel to kyiv, but the fact that he's not disregarding that certainly is relevant. and then, when he arrived here in malta, during his first speech, he kind of made a not-so-veiled reference to vladimir putin. i'll just read what he said. he said, we have thought that invasions of other countries, savage street fighting were memories of a distant past but once again, he said, some ruler suddenly caught up in anachronistic claims of national interests is provoking and

fomenting conflicts. well, it's a reference to vladimir putin in all but name, katy. >> claudio lavanga reading not so between the lines. thank you very much. and joining me now is andre, member of the ukrainian parliament. thank you so much for being here. let's talk about these peace talks. is the expectation of the ukrainian government that you're going to get anywhere unless it's vladimir putin and president zelenskyy meeting face-to-face? >> good afternoon. thank you for having me here. look, we are very realistic, and we ask the west to be very realistic. first of all, i want everyone to understand the big picture, what is happening in ukraine. in fact, we are at the second month of bloody butchery organized by kremlin paranoiac

putin, supported by millions of russians. we need to accept this fact, that millions of russians are supporting this nightmare which is happening in ukraine. from another hand, as many reporters confirm and i confirm as a member of the parliament, we broke the jaw of russian army, especially near kyiv. so, we defeat russians and they will left kyiv region, not because of de-escalation but because of huge losses they have from ukrainian army. at this moment, when i'm speaking to you, i may confirm that just a couple of minutes ago, it was officially recognized that all kyiv region is liberalized by ukrainian army, and it is under control of ukraine. at the same time, yes, they continue to focus on the south and on the east of ukraine, and that's exactly the breaking point for them. they are not ready to recognize their defeat, that they are

losing. they will do all possible things as in the east as shooting with cruise missiles countrywide because they need something for negotiations. for negotiations, they need aggressive military result. so, that's why they will continue these negotiations, because from another hand, russians are doing negotiations, only if they have problems and they have problems, but at the moment, there is no field for compromise, because for russia, the target is to destroy ukraine is still on the table and they will do their best to reach this result. for us, it's important to try to save human lives. that's why we're speaking to them from another hand, speaking to them, we also speaking to outside world because we want to build a new structure of security for ukraine and, in fact, a new structure for safety and security for europe if nato doesn't really work. >> i want to put that map back up for a second, because we're talking about russian forces being pushed out of kyiv and out

of the surrounding areas of kyiv. the concern that we're told now is on the east and the south, specifically for mariupol, which has already been so devastated by the russian assault. do you anticipate that that city and the russians want it, that they will be able to overtake it, or is the pushback in mariupol -- is it -- can it sustain itself to block the russians from creating a land bridge that we can see in that map that was up a moment ago? >> let me first comment, this map, it is not full because daily russians are making missiles attack almost countrywide. so, that's why people who are watching this program shall understand that there is almost no fully safe place in ukraine. they are attacking fuel depots. they are attacking infrastructural objects, all this, not only this red zone on

your map is the real war zone. coming back to mariupol, it's a war crime. it's a crime against humanity, because russians almost fully destroyed 450,000 people's city, absolutely peaceful city, and what is an irony, it was russian-speaking city, and you remember, putin was saying that he is going to liberalize russians from wild ukrainians on ukrainian land. for today, we know that at least 100,000 people are still inside of the city. most of the buildings in this city is a skeleton buildings because just skeletons left. people hiding somewhere on the basements. we did number of attempts to create corridors, humanitarian corridors to take people out of the city, and most of these attempts were unsuccessful, mostly because of the russians. at the moment, there is still a couple of thousand of ukrainian

soldiers inside of the city. we cannot disclose this data, but they are still inside of the city, and they are still fighting with russians, keeping huge russian forces around the city. i may assume that ukrainian army will try to deblock mariupol in upcoming weeks because it is absolutely strategic point because it is in the middle between crimea and donetsk region where the russians want to make the plain part of the territory to control. so, that's why the war around mariupol will continue, but again, everyone shall understand that mariupol is the biggest drama of the 21st century at the moment. >> the images out of mariupol are unimaginable. i mean, if you didn't see it with your own eyes, you wouldn't believe it. i want to ask, though, about what we saw in belgorod in russia. president zelenskyy will neither confirm nor deny the ukrainians were involved. the u.s. says they're confident it was ukrainian helicopters involved in that attack.

do you support ukraine going on the offensive inside of russia? >> i just want to say that russians reported three weeks ago that they destroyed in full all ukrainian air forces, so if you take russian logic, there is no air force in ukraine to attack russian objects. from another hand, i don't think that we shall make any comments on things like that. we are in the full-scale war. as more russia has losses is better for us and is better for the world, because again, it's not the war between ukraine and russia. russia is attacking civilized world. russia is attacking nato. russia is attacking european union. so that's fine if something is burning on their land. that's okay. it's reduced their capability. i want everyone to understand that each day of our brave fight with russians, huge resources

from ukraine, and we need at least to renew these resources on a daily basis, and i support president zelenskyy, who is stating that we need more serious weapons because we need not just the weapons for the street fight. we need to take them out of the country and we are still fighting with extremely powerful enemy. so if we want to protect west, we need serious weapons as fast as possible to ukrainian army. >> andrii, thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you for having me. and we now know jared kushner talked to the january 6th committee, and we were reliably told he provided valuable information. so, now the more compelling question is, what about ivanka trump? where does that stand? her interview and her answers next. her interview and her answers next ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ )

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new reaction today after a big-name trump official faces

january 6th committee questioning. jared kushner became the highest ranking white house official and the first member of donald trump's family to testify to the panel on thursday. nbc's allie raffa is following the story from capitol hill. we're told the information was valuable. do we know what it was? >> reporter: well, katy, to start off, this testimony wasn't originally on the committee's wish list, per se. but judging from what committee members have told us, they are actually very happy with the result. we know that kushner spoke voluntarily for more than six hours, and while we don't know exactly what the panel asked him, like you said, we're hearing from sources that he was cooperative, friendly, he spoke for himself. he didn't have his lawyers speak for him. and so, this almost seems too good to be true for the committee. this is someone who is extremely close to the president, obviously, his own son-in-law, former top advisor, someone very

familiar with his thinking, but there's one big caveat here. not only was kushner not at the white house on january 6th, he was actually not in the united states. he was overseas on a foreign trip. and so, the committee is saying that they are also interested in things leading up to january 6th and the days and weeks leading up to the attack on the capitol and they say that's how kushner could be helpful. listen to what congresswoman elaine luria had to say about how kushner could help the investigation. >> we were able to ask for his impression about these third party accounts of the events that happened that day and around that day, so he was able to voluntarily provide information to us to verify, substantiate, provide his own take on this different reporting. so it was really valuable for us to have the opportunity to speak to him. >> reporter: and like luria said, the fact that this was voluntary could very well be kushner and his lawyers checking this off the to-do list,

voluntarily working with the committee to skirt potential charges or subpoenas later on, but this is definitely an accomplishment for the committee. this is the closest they've gotten to trump's inner circle, much further than they've gotten with some other former trump allies like former white house chief of staff mark meadows, steve bannon, we heard a lot about dan scavino and peter navarro this week, also kimberly gill foil, but one person the committee is very, very interested in speaking with is kushner's wife, ivanka trump, and you probably know better than anyone how close -- having covered the 2016 election, how close ivanka is with her father. we know that she was not only at the white house on january 6th, she was in the oval office, urging her father to intervene in the storming of the capitol, and you know, we know that there have been talks between the committee and ivanka to come in. jared kushner's testimony actually comes two months after the committee asked her to voluntarily come in and answer

their questions. so far, nothing has been put on the schedule, but this is definitely something that would help the committee as it further prepares to hold those public hearings we keep hearing so much about, hopefully later this spring or they say maybe summer. >> we will see. allie raffa, thank you very much. meanwhile, the january 6th committee had also been expected to ask jared kushner about any dealings he had with ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. she reportedly sent text messages to donald trump's former chief of staff, mark meadows, that appeared to reference kushner among a slew of texts. they urged meadows to fight to overturn the 2020 election. more than two dozen democrats are calling on justice thomas to recuse himself from january 6th-related cases. speaker nancy pelosi addressed those calls. e calls. >> we do not have that sound

byte. now we have it. let's hear it. >> i don't think he should have ever been appointed so let me take it back there. if your wife is an admitted and proud contributor to a coup of our country, maybe you should weigh that in your ethical standards. >> nbc news has reached out to ginni thomas and clarence thomas. so far, both of them have declined to comment. joining me now is maya wiley, former assistant u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst. maya, i know the rest of the courts in this country would have had a standard that would mean that clarence thomas would not be allowed to participate in a case involving -- that their spouse is involved with. there's no such standard on the supreme court. i wonder if you are another justice on that court, if you might be having a conversation with clarence thomas.

>> it is very difficult to imagine that chief justice roberts is not having a conversation with justice thomas. in part because remember, chief justices of the supreme court are also responsible for guiding the ethical conduct of the court amongst the other things that they do, and the court itself has spent a long time saying, we're good. you don't have to legislate ethics. we will mind our own ethics. and therefore, it has remained a court without an obligation to an ethical code. but the assumption has always been -- and remember, many justices also served on courts -- federal courts that had these ethical standards, that they're going to abide by them. that part of the confirmation process is also about the integrity of the person being nominated. and what is so disturbing about this is that there have been ethical questions even before

january 6th. because of ginny thomas's activities. and just remember one thing. justice roberts' own wife was an anti-abortion activist. she stopped her activism because he rose to the supreme court. so, it's a good indication that he has a firm understanding of the ethical standards and it's hard to believe he wouldn't be talking to him. >> yeah, but it's just talk. i mean, even if all of the rest of the justices came to him and said, we don't think this is appropriate for you, he has no -- i mean, he doesn't have to listen to them. >> that's absolutely right. and i think that's why we see legislation on the hill now introduced to require an ethical code be created for the supreme court. and it's a sad day when that has to happen, but i think it's actually necessary now because of exactly that point. i don't think americans should tolerate a lifetime appointment with no ethical standards to which justices are held accountable.

>> maya, the supreme court voted almost unanimously to hand over presidential records to congress. the one vote that was not in favor of doing that was clarence thomas. what other cases might sit -- or get in front of the supreme court, having to do with january 6th? >> well, one thing that's already happened is because it was only clarence thomas that we're probably not going to see the ability for folks to obstruct congress in terms of getting evidence. documentary or testimony. but you know, there are all kinds of questions that can arise now. for example, when congress tries to legislate in response to what it has learned about january 6th, remember that's its charge is to recommend fixes to the problem so we don't have this kind of insurrection again. then there is the ability of those who disagree, politically, with whatever the legislation is, if it passes, to start

litigating, and for that to go all the way up to the supreme court. and potentially, you know, we're looking at a justice who has -- who has potential bias about how he feels about january 6th that is simply unacceptable, and if we really think about what just happened to judge ketanji brown jackson, in her confirmation hearing, and the grilling she got about applying the law, which by all objective measures she did, and now we have clarence thomas, who, by all objective measures, did not. i think that's a shocking reality, and we should have bipartisanship that that is a requirement for being on the supreme court. >> what about the other major development with the federal judge that ruled that donald trump -- and this is the judge's words -- quote, more likely than not committed felonies in trying to block the count of electoral votes along with his lawyer, dr. eastman.

what's going to happen with that, and how might that play into january 6th committee's decisions? >> well, remember, two things. one, it is a huge statement for a judge to make, because the judge is saying, look, there's objective evidence, i, sitting as a neutral arbiter see the objective evidence of a crime. now, the issue here, though, is this is not what the judge was ruling on. the judge was ruling on whether or not there would be -- it was actually about documents and evidence and whether it had to be provided. but what that says and reinforces for the committee is what the committee itself has already said. which is that there is indication -- remember, liz cheney said this already months ago. there's an indication that he corruptly tried to interfere with congress, which is language that goes specifically to an obstruction crime, and i think the other thing here is what the judge was saying is already in

the public record. the judge was really saying what we've already seen and what many lawyers, including prosecutors, have been saying. the evidence here demands a criminal prosecution. and i think this court opinion underscores that, but also, remember one other thing, katy, and this is important, legally, which is the judge chose his words carefully. the legal standard for a crime is higher. it is reasonable doubt. it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt. so, what the judge was saying is, i see evidence that establishes enough for investigation, not that he is stating that there's enough evidence to indict. that is up to prosecutors, but it's certainly why the department of justice should be investigating. >> that is an essential clarification. maya wiley, thank you so much as always. and he is a former republican congressman and occasional trump critic, a one-time member of the intelligence committee, he has so much to say that he has written a book. i'm going to ask him about that book, which is really

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our best deals on every iphone. ♪ ♪ here are some of the other top stories that we are monitoring this hour. the cdc will end a controversial public health rule that blocked hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers from entering the united states. president trump imposed the policy known as title 42 in march 2020 at the start of the pandemic. biden extended it. he is now ending it. migrants seeking asylum will have the chance to cross the border starting on may 23rd. amazon workers in new york city have voted to unionize at a staten island plant. the first time workers -- it is the first time workers have formed a union in the company's 27-year history. a former worker fired from amazon during the pandemic spearheaded the labor effort. the company has spent millions of dollars trying to fight union campaigns across the country.

sarah palin says she will run for an open u.s. house seat in alaska, launching her first campaign for public office since her vice presidential run in 2008. congressman dan young had held that seat for nearly 50 years. he died in that seat, in office, last month. and from one former gop office holder to another, joining me now is former republican congressman from texas, will hurt. he's the author of the new book, "american reboot" so this is interesting. it's a big book, big ideas. a lot of the experiences that you have had, congressman, in it, but i want to talk about what you think is going on in the country right now with your party but more broadly as well. how do you assess where this country is? we're so divided. we are on opposite ends of the political spectrum, at least for those who vote. how do you pierce through that and come to some sort of consensus?

>> well, katy, most of the polling suggests that 72% of americans think the country's on the wrong track. this is a trend that's been going on for quite some time. i think the way we get back on track and the way we do things is you need office holders that recognize that way more unites us than divides us. this is something that i saw in my district. i'm a black republican that represented a 71% latino district. nobody thought i could win. nobody thought i could win re-election and i was able to do that by appealing and talking about the issues actual voters care about. and those are issues like putting food on the table, a roof over the head, and making sure the people they love are healthy and happy. texas just went through a -- an election, a primary election. three million people voted out of 30 million people. i think that is the -- that apathy shows that the people are not interested in the kinds of

candidates that are being put up for office or that are running for office, and i think part of it is because we have too many people that are interested in fear mongering, rather than inspiring and when you talk about the issues, i think people get excited and that's what they want to see, and we have a lot of issues that we're dealing with, whether it's inflation or the russian invasion of ukraine, and they know things like technology and what i consider to be a new cold war with the chinese government, which is one of the topics i talk about in my book. >> i want to talk about that in a second. i want to talk, though, about a conversation you had with tim alberta and he was pressing you on why you consider yourself a republican, and at the end of the conversation, or at the end of this line of questioning, you said, it doesn't so much matter what letter is in front of your name, but our system is set up where you -- in the primaries, at least, you have to appeal to a certain set of voters to get through. those are the likely voters. i mean, i know that there have been a lot of politicians that

have come through and said, i don't care about the likely voters, i'm going to find the unlikely voters. donald trump was successful in getting the unlikely voters, but he was pitching something that you don't want to pitch. how do you get the apathetic voter, those 27 million people that you say did not vote in texas at least, how do you get them to say, hey, it's worth it for me to go to the polls? >> so, katy, let's look at the last nonpresidential election. 2018. the average number of voters in the contested primary p were only 54,000 people. that's not a lot of voters. that means 26,501 people decided, and in that election, 92% of the seats were decided in a primary, so that's rs and ds. so 2,000 or 3,000 new voters in a primary for the house has a tectonic shift and when you look at people that reliably vote in

general elections but not in primaries, that number is greater than or equal to the number of people that vote in primaries. the professional political class says to do exactly what you said. talk to likely primary voters. and when you talk to the same people over and over, you get the same results. and it's harder -- what i'm talking about is hard. don't get me wrong. i recognize that and understand that. but guess what? this is what i did. this is how i continue to get elected. this is how i helped other candidates in the last couple of cycles get elected too. it's possible, and it's something that we need to do, and i actually believe it's an opportunity for candidates to come along and to potentially win, and we have to do it because you know, american dominance overseas and in the global economy is no longer guaranteed. this is going to affect our way of life. i want to make sure that this century stays the american century, and we have to change the way we do things.

i tell a lot of cia stories in the book, and one of the lessons i talk about, we got to get off the "x." the "x" is where something's going down and that's the last place you want to be so we have to do things different. it's going to be hard. it's not easy but it's a must if we want to make sure america stays the greatest country on earth. >> the book is really interesting and your origin story about why you decided to run for congress is, to put it mildly, interesting, if not extremely frustrating. but you also argue that the part of the problem we're facing is that americans just don't have enough faith in our civic institutions any longer and that because of that, we're having these huge existential arguments over face masks and vaccines and, you know, critical race theory in schools, and these -- these issues that are not the major issues that are plaguing our country, that will be plaguing our country, that we are not seeing -- we're not adequately seeing what is coming for us, and we are woefully

unprepared. what is, in your estimation, coming for us? >> look, imagine this. the chinese government today, we have to assume, have the technology where they can do real deep fakes, meaning, they can create a video that has never been created that mimics what an individual -- can mimic a person. imagine the kind of chaos and mistrust something like that could cause in our elections. imagine the russians using technical means in order to do something to our stock markets that is unexpected. those capabilities exist. imagine the chinese government owning 70% of the manufacturing of semiconductors. semiconductors are the building blocks of every piece of technology from your car to your phone to your refrigerator. you think it's hard to get stuff

now? wait until -- if the chinese government has cornered that market. and then, that means the u.s. economy is no longer the most important economy. that means our 401(k)'s are going to be impacted and are not going to sustain us through retirement. our kids and our grandkids are not going to be able to, you know, have some of the best paying jobs. these are some of the issues that are in front of us, and it requires a competition of ideas, and so, i wrote this book not just for republicans, not just for democrats, not just for independents but for everybody, even people that don't vote, because this -- we're at a moment in our history where we can go the way of other super powers, or we can change what we're doing and make sure that we continue to not only uplift every american but uplift humanity as well. >> so, when are you announcing for 2024? >> look, you know, if i had the opportunity to serve my country,

i'll evaluate it. right now, i was excited to put some of these ideas out and hopefully people are able to read the book. >> i've been around the block. i know what that answer means. congressman will hurd, thank you so much for joining us. it is a very interesting book. appreciate your time. >> thanks, katy. and more than 4 million people in limbo after fleeing ukraine in just the past five weeks, what their new normal looks like as they wait out the war and what so many have said about the future that you might not expect. about the future that you might not expect ease, you can do just about anything. thanks, dad. that's right, robert. and it's never too early to learn you could save with america's number one motorcycle insurer. that's right, jamie. but it's not just about savings. it's about the friends we make along the way. you said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will thank you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember. to help prevent bleeding gums,

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now to a major part of the war in ukraine, the exodus of all those refugees. more than four million ukrainians have fled to neighboring countries, where they're now adjusting to what you could call a new normal in their everyday lives. nbc's dasha burns joins us now from poland. dasha, thank you so much for being with us. so many refugees, so many of them children. >> reporter: yeah.

>> when you talk to them, are they thinking they're going to stay over the borders for a long time? are they hoping to get back quickly? >> reporter: hey, katy, great to see you, and yeah, i mean, the people that we're talking to here, they're torn. their hearts are in ukraine, but their lives, at least for the moment, are here in poland. and so, they're asking themselves, do i get a job? do i put my kids in polish school? do i start to learn the language here? these are all questions that refugees are wrestling with as they try to figure out what's next. this has long been a city of survival. krakow, poland's storied architecture was spared the nazi bombs in world war ii. now it's a city full of survivors, refugees fleeing today's war. >> i think that my life just stopped at the moment the war started. >> reporter: irina was a corporate attorney in lviv, now

in krakow, her days are spent with laundry, online homework, and waiting inside this catholic seminary, where she's living with her two kids. how does it feel to have your life change so dramatically so quickly? >> you just start to realize that the most important thing is safety. >> reporter: like nearly everyone we've met, her goal is to go home to ukraine, rather than grow roots here in poland. but down the hall, luba's family has had to settle in a bit more. the war interrupted her mother's cancer treatment. in poland, she's able to get care again. we are praying for her health, she says, and for our family left behind in ukraine. for her kids, school now means polish p.e. classes, new friend, and a new language. both families know that what comes next is finding a job and a more permanent home. >> i should start looking for a job just to feed my kids and

myself. i don't know. >> reporter: you're not ready to build a life outside of ukraine? >> we are not ready because we left all our life there in ukraine. >> reporter: we've heard the phrase over and over again, katy, i want to go home. but the heartbreaking reality is, for some people, they may not have a home to go back to. we were just at the border earlier today, and one of the organizations we were talking with told me that this is the next step of programming that they want to build is mental health support for people to try to cope with this reality, to try to accept their situation because it's really difficult to be in such a state of shock, as so many people are still right now and build a new life at the same time, katy. >> it can freeze you in place, you know? and you do have to start making fundamental decisions or basic decisions about what to do next, whether to put your kids in school, whether to get a job yourself, whether to learn the

language. all those issues you addressed at the top and all the issues that that family addressed in speaking with them. dasha, thank you so much. it was really great reporting. and the u.s. is walking a fine line when it comes to how much and what kind of aid it sends to ukraine. but my next guest says we could be running out of time to make an impact on the outcome of the war. time to make an impact on the outcome of the war. here's candice... who works from home, and then works from home. but she can handle pickup, even when her bladder makes a little drop-off. because candice has poise, poise under pressure and poise in her pants. it takes poise.

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new today, the u.s. announcing it will send an additional $300 million in military equipment to ukraine. the shipment will include laser-guided rocket systems, armed drones, vehicles and various other weapons. joining me now is lieutenant general ben hodges, former commanding general of the united states army, europe, and pershing chair for policy analysis. thanks for being with us. you were telling us that we're running out of time to make a difference in this war. why is that?

>> katy, we are in the decisive phase of this campaign. i think the next three weeks will determine the long-term outcome. for sure, the russians are on the back foot, they're withdrawing, the ukrainians have done a terrific job stopping them, but this is russia. and just like they've done in the past, they will, if given the opportunity, they will rebuild and regroup and they'll come back with even more mass and more destruction than what we're seeing right now, so we've got about -- >> let me ask you -- i wonder about that, and i don't mean to interrupt you. i wonder about that because what they have is the military is mostly voluntary, or they tried to move toward a voluntary military. there are some conscripts. they weren't honest about what their soldiers were going into war with by the reports that we have heard and some of the indicators in terms of the behavior by these troops. can they really regroup? i mean, is it really possible for them to get it together? they've lost, i think, three or four major generals so far.

>> actually, they've lost seven. but if you think about beginning of world war ii, they lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers, hundreds of generals were gotten rid of by stalin, and they were able to reach into the depth of the country and over time, build up mass to come back. and that's what we want to prevent. we don't want to give them that opportunity. the problem is, ukraine does not have unlimited time. they don't have unlimited amounts of ammunition. and so, what i'm advocating is that our administration has got to start talking about winning, not just keeping ukraine from losing. and that means we've got to have a much more -- a much stronger sense of urgency. the excellent report that dasha just did, all those refugees, if we don't help ukraine break the back of russia in the next three weeks, then we're going to be seeing these refugee situations for months and months and

months, so this is a about more than just battlefield victory. this is about enabling the rebuilding of ukraine to start so these people can go home. >> okay. how do we do that, though? i mean, we're sending soviet tanks, which the ukrainians know how to use. we've sent so many of those shoulder-mounted rocket launchers, the anti-air defense systems. short of getting involved ourselves, what can we do? >> great question. they are specifically running out of the ammunition for 122 and 152-millimeter rockets and artillery. these are the weapons that will enable them to destroy what's causing all the damage inside ukrainian cities. they've got to be able to reach out, and that's what they need, so it's no longer about javelins. of course, the javelins are important, because they destroy russian tanks, but what's causing all the damage in ukrainian cities is russian artillery and rockets. and so that's what we've got to

be pushing, and a lot of that ammunition exists already inside many central europe and eastern european allies, and so if we talk about winning, get that sense of urgency, you know, get them everything that they need, and then we can sustain this momentum that ukrainians have developed and break the back of what russia's doing. otherwise, we're going to be dealing with this for years to come. >> do you support the ukrainians going on the offensive inside russia? >> yep. absolutely. i mean, that's where the destruction is coming from. most of what the russian air force is doing, they're launching missiles from inside russia, russian air space, hitting and murdering innocent ukrainian civilians in the cities. of course we should be helping them striking where the problems are coming from. i'm looking forward to the day when a big ukrainian missile lands inside sebastopol at the

port facility there and wrecks the russian navy's ability to keep ships under way. >> lieutenant ben hodges, always good to have you. i do want to talk to you more about the differences between the war they were fighting, world war ii and this one now. that was a real fight for survival and hitler was coming after them. that being said, i always appreciate all of your expertise. you certainly know a lot more than i do. i won't try to say that i know more than you, of course. lieutenant ben hodges, thank you so much. >> thanks, katy. that will do it for me on this three-hour marathon of "alex witt reports." i'm katy tur. katy tur. l, now i'm down with rybelsus®. mom's a1c is down with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪) in a clinical study, once-daily rybelsus® significantly lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill.

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♪♪ hi, everybody, good to see you. good afternoon, i'm yasmin vossoughian with a busy few hours ahead. we have new reports russia is pulling back from the capital