about the extent of the horrors that putin and -- have committed against the ukrainian people. after 39 days of surprising resilience and defiance to get one of the biggest armies in the, world ukrainians have successfully -- the seat of the country's democracy, at least for the moment. ukrainian soldiers rollback in these areas in the ukraine flag was amounted on their tanks as the russian military retreated from contested towns of them insult for much of the past month. but any celebration of the liberation of kyiv's overshot about what the russians have done for those towns. before we go, on i must warn, you once we are going to see, even the descriptions of what we are going to see, are graphic. they are some of the worst visuals we have seen outside of ukraine so far. but we have media station to show them to you and talk about them, because the world cannot close its eyes to what we have woken up to this morning. in bucha, a suburb on the

outskirts of kyiv, there are signs of a massacre on the streets. decaying civilian corpses are lying on the sidewalk in the middle of the road amid the rubble and debris from the destroyed properties that used to be people's homes. the dead are in civilian clothing, in puffy winter jackets in jeans, which cannot be confused for military uniforms. but obviously haphazardly on the road so that the people who have traveled into between the past few days have literally needed to drive around them. ukrainians are taking care to avoid the bodies out of fear that the russians may have room to them with mines, with bombs. some of the bodies on the roadside, they even appear to have their hands tied behind their backs. a mass grave was found in town with peoples limbs poking out of the dirt. no easy way of knowing exactly how many people lie in those trenches. lucas mayer says at least 300 residents of the town have been killed. those scenes were just -- what we saw from the town that has been in russian control.

those images are evident of russia targeting civilians, because they happen to be on opposite sides of the border from putin. because they are targeting people who are civilians. the targeting of civilians is a war crime. it is the kind of unimaginable depravity that is used to be met with people uttering the phrase, never again. how many times, and how many tragedies will wear beat this phrase? we can't say this over and over and over again without doing anything to actually prevent deprive mcclung it's like putin from carrying out atrocities like this. there is a hesitation in saying that kyiv's been recitation has been liberty today, because they may just care on a bigger effort. the apparent liberation of kyiv does not mean that the russian offensive is over. in other parts of ukraine, nothing much has changed. russia continues to be a major presence throughout much of the eastern and southern regions of this country. just hours, ago actually,

russian carried out a missile strike which destroyed an oil refinery in odessa, which was an important southern port city on the black sea. when you will marry a poll? the stories we have already gathered ahead of that city have been horrific. the russians bombed a maternity hospital and struck a theater where people were sheltering, killing about 300. what about other atrocities we do not know about yet? we are past the point of sanctions and strongly worded -- in megawatts. it is no longer official as evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity continue to grow. vladimir putin has no regard for humanity or even the rules of war. he is proven at this time and time again, and also pursue the indiscriminate killing of civilians time and time again. twice before in ukraine and in chechnya, the global world order and potentially democracy's survival have hung in the balance. if this is not the kind of moment that the united nations

and nato and the un and the g20 and to the council of europe and the g7 were made for, what was the point of these alliances if not to stop this. the world cannot sit by as a vladimir putin continues this reign of terror. nbc news chief correspondent richard engel has more from kharkiv, another city fearful of what's to come. richard? >> washing troops have suffered a catastrophic defeat outside of kyiv, pulling back from not just areas around the capital, but the entire province around kyiv. russia says it pulled back in order to give peace talks a chance, and more momentum. but it pullback under fire. it was forced back. they've taken heavy losses from ukrainian troops suffering many many casualties. and now that russian forces have left the area, and have left civilian towns and cities, ukrainian troops have been able to go in and see the atrocities of russian forces, which have

been carried out. there have been bodies laying on the ground, many of them appear to have been killed execution style in close range, some with their high hands tied behind their back. somebody's were dumped into a what was quickly dubbed mass graves. also lot widespread reports of looting, even rape. this is consistent with what we have been hearing in other parts of ukraine, directly from victims of systematic looting and also cases of rape and execution and close range. the snow opens up potentially the russians to consolidate their forces here in the east. and that is what russia publicly has said they are going to do. they are going to fortify positions closer to the russian border. but the ukrainian military aren't dissipating that. they are preparing that. already, for the past several days, from the city we have been hearing nonstop artillery fire going towards russian positions. reinforcements are also in the

area. ukraine wants to take advantage of this opportunity. the russians are readjusting their positions under fire after having suffered losses. they want to make sure that they suffer similar losses in this part of the country as well. >> nbc's richard engel reporting from kharkiv in eastern ukraine. meanwhile, also falling what's happening in the southern ukrainian city of odessa. this, morning multiple explosions and black plumes of smoke filling the sky. for more on this, joined with gabe here, as who is watching this very closely from levy. gabe, what do we know about what happened in odessa? >> hey there, ali the russian ministry defense says it destroyed an oil refinery as well as three separate fuel depots. and as he described early this morning in that southern historic port city of odessa, huge plumes of smoke can be seen, multiple explosions hard.

the residents there. ali, this appears to be a targeted precision strike similar to what we saw a week ago here in lviv on saturday of last weekend. there was a fuel depot targeted here. several people were injured in this strike. but again, this appears to be a targeted a strike in that southern port city of odessa. no word on any injuries just yet. the ukrainians say that civilian infrastructure, critical infrastructure, was targeted. with, again russian ministry of defense saying that they have to destroy an oil refinery. and three separate fuel depots. nowhere it on any injuries. but this was a city that had been preparing for strikes for the past several weeks. this all comes, as you just heard richard report there, that fighting is continuing in the east and in the south. my question, is will the russian forces, now that they have a ground offensive in odessa, it appears that it was just as missile strikes this morning. local authorities are watching

this all very closely. >> gabe, you are watching it to. please stay close and let us know if you have updates. we are bringing us right back in lviv, here with me. joining us in person is a member of the ukrainian parliament. she's a deputy chair of the countries holis political party. we have spent some days talking over the last few days, i am pleased to finally meet you. i'm sorry, i forget, you are from ukraine, i don't have a wind problem here. it is a windy day. it is such a tragedy that we are discussing this morning. you heard richard angle talk, not just about the bodies around kyiv that have been discovered overnight, but about rape. you have been seeing a lot of reports from people seeing their parents dead bodies, the naked bodies of women on the street. these are warcrimes. >> indeed they are. it cannot get any worse, but with every single piece of news

that i am reading from the road to the, last it is going to get worse. half an hour ago, i wouldn't statement with the mayor who said that the russians just opened fire on the women. and when they founded, they started driving over there. these are just sick people i'm sorry to say they are just sick with. justice needs to be done to the, victims one way or another. what's happened there, i don't think we have imagined that. when is actually taking place. we knew it was, bad but it was so much worse than we expected. that is just so painful. >> yesterday the mayor of which i was talking two days ago about the fact that we got the city back. i don't think we understood the full extent of it. they started looking in the streets and realizing that there were civilian bonnie is lying in the streets. hundreds of them. >> so many. you can see that many of them have their hands tied behind their backs, so that means they

just capture them. and they chop them in the head just like nazis did. this is precisely what they were doing. now, when it is all over, i can tell you something i did not know before. remember mockery? my parents they are from -- they were at the time that it was taking place, they were there. they know some of the people from the villagers in russia, living there. they know that the leaders of one of the villages has been killed with her husband and her son, and one of the pictures we have seen is from the windows of one of the villages, which is not very far for my parents place. it is just unimaginable that this is actually taking place somewhere that i used to drive like every second week, going to my parents house. it is unimaginable. unimaginable that this is actually taking. place after everything that we have, seen the world cannot keep quiet. we cannot pretend this did not happen, we cannot pretend that more sanctions will do the job. we have to do is just get

rushed to be picked out of the un totally. there is no way to stay in the security council after this has happened. it needs to be a full embargo. we cannot continue funding this. no one can continue giving money to. russia we have to protect ourselves, because you can imagine the same things happening in other occupied areas along the south and east. this is the same thing will be doing here as well. we probably just don't know the whole extent for this happened there right now. >> you spoke to the russian foreign minister has a route this morning. i spoke to the former president of estonia, this morning as well. it was so the same thing. the west is rightfully fearful of the nuclear threat that bothering putin keeps talking about. his nuclear weaponry. but we have never seen a situation in which a nuclear arsenal has been used as a defense or a flip for conquest. how should we think about this? how should my viewers think

about this? as nato gets more involved, as the u.s. gets more involved, we can create world war iii? >> the viewers should realize that people are being killed right now, real people. we look at people at the borderline. one of the images. the person had sneakers. i was thinking, this is the same person as myself. and we need to remember that those are real. people just like ourselves. like me and. you and everyone else. we have suffered through terrible rape, torture, everything. we need to correct that. otherwise, we is humans wonder, why stallworth? it we have to protect each other. yes, nuclear space is terrifying. i believe, like everybody in, ukraine is so scared of that. but how many more people need to be killed before we actually say okay, that is enough? 300 people killed in one bomb blast in mariupol. 300 people. what is worse than that?

why is 300 people potentially killed in a chemical attack worse than the west? three other people killed in mariupol in one single -- and even more in the time of siege. the west needs to react, the whole world needs to react. this is happening, this is the tragedy that is taking place. just keeping quiet about that is not going to do the job. keep on killing until he gets whatever he wants. >> your family you have, your family from the east. your son is in the west, you are trying to keep him from. >> martin is here? >> you insist that he does his homework. >> exactly. >> you are in kyiv most of the time. your boyfriend is, -- >> somewhere. >> he somewhere. >> how are you? we talk sometimes nightly, how are you? it's four in the morning. do you sleep? how are you managing this? >> i fell constantly tired. i feel like i can falsely brett away. the moment i go to bed i cannot

fall sleep i literally sleep two or three hours a night. i wake up, i cannot go back to sleep. i keep reading news. or frankly i have been thinking about those images we have seen for the past few days. i'm going to bed and i'm thinking of those women, we saw their naked body. they were naked and shot and burned. i cannot imagine what has happened before they were dead. i think that is just terrifying. i keep of thinking about that in my had. i cannot get those images out of my head. we are all terrified. people have been asking this past 24 hours, are you happy the key reasons she russia right now. i realize that i did not feel happy. it feels empty. it doesn't feel like a relief, at all. just because of the images we have seen. we did not pan tension to the fact that they are finally gone. it has been quiet in kyiv the last few days. that is true, i just got back to the west yesterday knife. it was quieter, but we did not

feel released. just because your brain freezes when you see those images. you cannot accept a, but you know that you have to. you have to react, you have to talk to the world. now the world needs to react to what is happening. it is just mind-boggling, that's it. >> thank you for the time that you take to spend with us. thank you for getting this message out. thank you for all that you are doing. it's an honor to finally meet you in person. we will speak many times, unfortunately. maybe we will speak in good times. >> so much hope sue. >> and it's lawson is a member of the ukrainian parliament. at times this program is difficult to watch. it is a sunday morning, but it is our responsibility as americans and people to bear witness to these atrocities. we much look. after the break we will be joined by retired colonel alex vindman, who has already called for the u.s. to do more. including the ukraine to do a

no-fly zone of their zone. john spencer, specializing in urban warfare or he went viable a few weeks ago tweeting detailed instruction on how to stave off a russian city takeover. he too is calling for u.s. intervention. euro arching a special edition of velshi, live from lviv. riders! let your queries be known. yeah, hi. instead of letting passengers wrap their arms around us, could we put little handles on our jackets? -denied. -can you imagine? i want a new nickname. can you guys start calling me snake? no, bryan. -denied. -how about we all get quotes to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? approved. cool! hey, if bryan's not gonna be snake, can i be snake? -all: no. get ready for next level entertainment. apple tv+ is now on xfinity. howdy y'all. with new apple original series and movies added every month... ...there's always something new to discover.

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two weeks from now what seem possible we are now at this point where the world needs more to be done and what has been done in the face of these atrocities. we are witnessing. it puts into contrast what this war is all about. it puts a face to the tyranny in barbarity of this government, this system. these are not surprising events to me. i was hoping that i would be wrong, but i understood the russian way for. russians have engaged in this type of barbarism, repeatedly. both under the putin

administration, under the putin rasheem, and chechnya and syria. but also historically, that country has been subject to tyranny, dictatorship, authoritarianism for the vast part of the 20th century. that is the difference. we do not understand this kind of mentality but the brutality that we see here is a rod that infects the entire society. it is not just leadership that it's corrupt, but it infects the military in the way that the military wages war. there is no restraint, no warfare that has the likelihood of consuming large parts of ukraine, if not the world, if it is not stopped. it is a travesty that the united states is not doing more. i hear the rhetoric about the fact that the united states has provided another $300 million. it is a drop in the bucket in terms of what is needed. i call for at least depots of equipment, so that ukraine can

successfully wage this war. we are entering a particularly dangerous phase where russia could achieve its objectives in the east. that is not the end, that is the beginning. if russia is successful in the east, it doesn't stop there. that is not the nature of the regime. they will go back to kyiv, they will go and see more of this. that is why the united states needs to think about wartime footing. during the cold war, they need to find ways to say yes. to the reasonable requests that ukraine's have for equipment, for weapons, in order to win this war. they are fighting for all of us. they are fighting to defeat putin's regime, putin's tyranny, and we are not doing enough. >> colonel, you are the director of european affairs of the national security council. you are acutely aware of the fact that russia, as an adversary, is one of the most damaging adversaries in the world to have. they are armed with a nuclear arsenal strong enough to destroy the world, several

times over. alexander kozyrev, tomas ilves or both saying that that cannot be an excuse for conquest. that cannot be the reason we don't fight back against conquest, or against war crimes, or crimes against humanity. how do you square those two things? >> the best way to describe it nuclear blackmail. they can warn us off what we think is in our best interest, helping ukraine, by nuclear saber rattling. there is a simple concept that just about proves that all of the threats are hollow. that is mutually assured destruction. we have as potent if not a more potent nuclear arsenal. there is mutually to sure destruction if russia were to consider or deploy nuclear weapons against us. that is not a fear we need to continue. we should have greater fears of

congressional war against us. by their performance of war in ukraine. they are not gonna move up the ladder. they're going to do everything they can to avoid a fight. they are essentially trying to blackmail last, and more and i saw. they have no interest in this. i have seen that firsthand. meeting with the russians, they are apprehensive obtaining with the united states, in tangling with nato. they need to understand that the new color threshold is basically impossibly high. russia repeating the refrain, existential threat. that is the form of nuclear weapon. if russia is on the brink of collapse, that is when they could use a nuclear weapon. that is not the threshold we are at right now. the russians will not wage new color war against us, because they would be destroyed. >> thank you for your time. retired colonel alexander vindman is a director of european affairs at the national security council.

we always appreciate your analysis. after the break, acting united states ambassador to ukraine to discuss what the united states can do for the ukrainian people. this is a special addition of velshi, live from lviv.

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that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. i am coming to you live from lviv, ukraine. we continue to see evidence of apparent russian war crimes in the area surrounding kyiv. my next guest has become painfully familiar with the intensifying danger in ukraine, having been evacuated from her workplace at the u.s. embassy in kyiv, to lviv, and then moved once again to poland. joining me now is christina convene, the ambassador at the u.s. ambassador in ukraine. she is also a former director of the national security council, specifically for the european union, ukraine, and belarus affairs. ambassador, thank you for being with us tonight, this morning, i'm sorry. what is your reaction to what you have seen this morning?

the areas surrounding kyiv that have been liberated, or from where russian troops have been withdrawn, the carnage. the dead bodies, the apparent war crimes that we are seeing. >> what we have seen in these horrible photos just reaffirms about president biden stated recently, president putin is a butcher. he is going about this horrible war, unprovoked war, in an uncivilized way. unfortunately, although he has pulled out of some towns surrounding kyiv, this sort of butchery continues. in mariupol, kharkiv, and now we see he's firing missiles out odessa. unfortunately, this kind of barbarism continues. >> what do we do about it? there are these legitimate fears of what escalation looks like. when you look at the images we are seeing this morning, to the human mind, that feels a great

deal like escalation. the president has gone around the world, he has gone to brussels, he was in poland last week, he seems to be trying to get everyone to get on to the same page with respect to aid to ukraine. with respect to sanctions the ukraine. we are not all united in this, in the west. does this change things? does the idea that there are atrocities and war crimes, civilian deaths, does it change the way the world is going to react to the way things are happening? >> i would say that since this unprovoked war in ukraine actually nato and our allies and partners have been incredibly united there may be a difference here or there but generally we have been united in our condemnation of russia, and our support of ukraine. i can tell you the united states has spent over two billion dollars supporting specifically, ukrainian military. we have been giving them weapons, anti tank, anti air,

ammunition. more recently we have been giving them drones, also tanks. we are working with our allies and partners to give them defensive equipment, as well. some of our allies and partners have given equipment to ukraine as the first time they have given this to another country. we recognize just how brutal and unprovoked this war has been. >> the president the, president zelenskyy had that president biden, i think they had an hour-long conversation the other day. they need more than eight. they want the united states in nato to intervene. i guess it is hard to understand where that line is. they have obviously called for the airplanes from nato. a no-fly zone. russian continues to be a member of the united states security council. continues to me a member of the united nations. continue to be a member of the g20. what is left?

what's had room to be have now that it can feel like the united states is leading an escalation to the resistance of russia and ukraine. >> i would say that from the beginning, we have strongly believed we should go at russia in two ways. first is crippling sanctions to their economy. second is providing ukraine the military, and other assistance, including humanitarian assistance that it needs. in order to both fend off russia, and to take care of people that have been internally displaced. since the beginning of this war, we have ramped up all of those things. we will not stop. we will continue to provide first of all, equipment, including weapons to the ukraine. second of all, we will also continue to ramp up our sanctions, to make sure that president putin's ability to finance this horrible war is

further constricted. all of these things have continued. every day, we come week, since the beginning of hostilities. >> christina kvien, thank you for joining us. christina kvien is the ambassador at the u.s. embassy in ukraine. we appreciate your time this morning. the necessity in the power of journalism has never been more evident in this moment of war. take a look at that remarkable reporting on the ground here by local ukrainian journalist. coming up next i will be joined by one of them, who has been detailing the conflict in the human rights atrocities that had been happening inside of ukraine. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. (vo) verizon business unlimited is going ultra! get more. like manny. event planning with our best plan ever. (manny) yeah, that's what i do. (vo) with 5g ultra wideband in many more cities,

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reporting on what many human rights organizations are calling, credible evidence of war crimes committed by the russian military in ukraine. the video that we have been showing from the area surrounding kyiv speak for itself. the next image we are about to show you, it's difficult to see. it is even more difficult to comprehend. president zelenskyy's advisor tweeted this image. if he shows the body of three civilians with their arms tied behind their backs, after being shot dead by russian forces. the tweet says these people quote, pose no threats. my next guest is a well respected journalist from ukraine who covers conflict and human rights. she tweeted in response that she is not shocked by the image

and expects to see many more like. natalia manual joins me now from kyiv. she is the ceo and founder of the public interest lab. natasha, thank you for being with us. i am sorry to have to talk to you about these things, about the images we have seen overnight from things we thought would be good news. we saw the liberation of these towns from russian forces surround kyiv. they have turned from a celebration of liberation into possibly some of the worst sets of images we have seen in recent in remembering. >> when i said i was not really shocked, we have been in touch with people in these occupied towns. unfortunately, it is not just these areas near kyiv. of course it is horrendous. we are all up hoard. there is no logic in that. there is some weird logic in bombing in shelling the towns to overtake them. there is not any military,

human logic in rape, which has been documented by the human rights watch. also, murders of the elderly, someone riding a bicycle, and other people. what is worth is that we see similar, maybe not to the scale, but similar cases of civilian cases of rape in villages near kharkiv, or tenets. in any area where the towns have been occupied by the russian regular troops. and it is still something hard to comprehend. it is also something to stress that this is exactly what ukrainians were afraid of. why the ukrainian army is defending those towns. why they are not, let's say, agreeing to withdraw or leave those towns. this is what is happening in

them. >> what is your sense of, what it is? we have been discussing this all morning. but it is that the world's need to do in response to these images? and history, we didn't necessarily know what was happening, or we didn't have clarity what was happening, but here we now! we have clarity. people like you bear witness to this every day. now we have images. there is just no way for anyone in the world to say, rape, torture, the tying of civilians hands behind their backs and shooting them in the had, the driving over the bodies of people you know to be civilians. bombings of their home, that is at anything we can except as a civilized society. what now? >> first, one par is the embassy and the grieving, it is something important. of course, it is not something which can avoid further atrocities. first of all it is very

important to understand who are responsible for these crimes. in particular it is not just putin. it is also the putin propaganda which for a while managed to de-humanize ukrainians, that is what made this possible. it is also dividing throughout the chain of command. it is clearly russian military who did these atrocities. most importantly at this stage, they're still towns to occupy. i'm just coming back from the donbas, the eastern part of ukraine. it by governors, by everybody, there will be fierce battles for these other towns. and to occupy other towns. the other critical thing is not to let these things happen in other towns! which could not be done with any other mean but then the support of the ukrainian army. that they could have some weaponry, enough to push these

occupiers out, something to and for the western audience, the pictures you are seeing. these are the suburbs of kyiv, quite wealthy suburbs where people who are pretty well off. they have houses, not just flats to live in. a lot of these people thought they would be a military fight for the capital. they went there because they thought they would stay in their private houses, outside of the capital. we see that, these are people not necessarily more important than others, but it is really a peaceful well off neighborhood. just to understand how related ball it is to any person sitting in his or her home. >> thank you,. so i, we lost our connection

for a section. natasha, thank you for joining us this morning. natalia gabon, ukrainian journalist and public interest journalism lab, ceo and cofounder. we appreciate your time. today, hungarians are casting their votes in a high stakes election. if pro putin prime minister -- it could have high reaching effects in this war in ukraine. we will go live to budapest, after the. 've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ ♪ i've been to: pittsburgh, parkersburg, ♪ ♪ gravelbourg, colorado, ♪ ♪ ellensburg, cedar city, dodge city, what a pity. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health.

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today, images of the devastation left in the wake of russia's repeating from kyiv around full display. i am about to show some of them to you, they are difficult to see, but necessary for the world to bear witness. mass graves, dead bodies dressed in civilian closing littering the streets and sidewalks in abuja, these images are objectively horrifying. at the very least, they appear to be hard evidence of war crimes. vladimir putin does not have many friends in the region. among ukraine's neighbors who are watching this reign of terror unfold, one steadfast russian allies stands out. the far-right hungarian prime minister victor or bought. he's up for reelection, today! his bid to continue for nato's longest some -- more across the border in ukraine has been a key issue in the campaign against him. last night, on the eve of the

election night and hungry, ukrainian president vladimir zelenskyy issued a blistering rebuke of orban's failure to help his ukrainian neighbor. or even to admit what has happened to him. here is a portion of what's wilenski said that grab me. quote, i want to turn to another person who does not seem to fully understand what is happening. not only in ukraine, but throughout europe. to the prime ministry of hungary. he is virtually the only one in europe to openly support mr. putin. we did not ask for anything special from official budapest. we didn't even get whatever one else is doing! doing for the sake of peace. we did not receive the vital transit of defense aid, we did not see more leadership. we saw no effort to stop the war! why so? the whole of europe wants peace. the whole of europe does not want the benefit to be moved from mariupol to budapest, or from kharkiv to krakow, or from chernihiv to vilnius. the whole of europe is trying to stop the war, to restore

peace. that why is official budapest opposed to the whole of europe, to all civilized countries? for wet? the main thing for us is opinion of people. the ukrainian people support the hungarian people. the hungarian people support ukrainian people. we value piece equally, we value freedom equally. it will be so. we will always live in good neighbor illness. i am convinced that our minority should be the bridges that unitas even more. politicians coming out. and the truth remains. that is what i'm talking about, the truth. i always say would i think. when i am speaking of hungry, i mean hungry. i don't need to match my thoughts. if we need to speak to germany, we are speaking of germany. if i need to speak of another country, and speaking of another country. if it is a war, then i called a war, not a special operation. if this is a threat to the whole of europe, then i call it interrupts the whole of europe. this is called the honesty that

mr. orban locks. he may have lost it somewhere in his contacts with moscow. >> that with volodymyr zelenskyy. joining me now live from hungary's capital of budapest is nbc's raf sanchez. raf, the polls close there in about three hours. if viktor oman gets reelected, vladimir putin has cemented another ally. what is your sense of how this election is playing out? what kind of chance does orban's main challenger have in this election? >> yeah ali, we are in a polling station in downtown budapest. this is a pretty liberal neighborhood voters here are overwhelmingly against viktor orban. we spoke with another woman later she was a teacher she actually got pretty emotional talking about this election. saying that this is the last, best chance for her country to preserve democracy. there is another big question on the mind of voters here, whether these votes tonight will be fairly counted. or if this is a preordained

force victory for mr. orban. we met earlier with peter markey's at. he is the head of the hungarian opposition, the man who is hoping in a couple of hours time he will be named as the next prime minister of hungry. we put that question to him. does he have a real chance of winning this election? take a listen to what he had to say. >> you describe prime minister orban as an authoritarian. he controls the state institutions. we have control over a lot of the media in this country. is this a fair election? do you stand a fair chance? >> probably don't, of course. there's still a clear chance that we can win this election. but it is not a fair and free elections, just at all. just imagine aside from all of the electoral fraud. the new constitution, the new electoral vote that was only improved by one single party. their constitution improvement one party. electoral rules approved by one single party. the gerrymandering, we reshaped

all of the electoral districts. everything here is serving or bonds interest. he can always stay in power. >> now or bonds big argument is he is the big -- won't keep hungry out of the war in ukraine. he claims that the opposition are so rapidly rabidly pro nato and pro western that they will drag this country into war. that is an argument the opposition very firmly rejects. but it's an argument that seems to be working in some quarters in this country. we met a young man who's voted consistently against viktor orban but he said in this election he's going to vote for him because he is really afraid that hungary will end up dragged into the war in ukraine. ali, there were election observers from the osce here earlier. they have raised concerns, especially about viktor orban's iron grip over the media in this country. it's very, very difficult for opposition candidates to get any air time at all on state media. i will tell you turnout is

looking slightly lower so far today compared to the same time in the 2018 election. it's hard to know exactly what that means. but it could be a problem for the opposition who are really hoping for a wave of anti-ban enthusiasm and hoping that their voters keep the faith and turn up at the polls. ali? >> raf, really important reporting you're doing from budapest. thank you for that. raf sanchez in budapest, hungary. up next, i'll speak to retired major onspencer who spent 25 years in the u.s. army. he tweeted "ukraine needs the u.s., not just weapons. this is a test of our national values, what we stand for, what i served for, what my family serves for, to protect the innocent, to stop evil and war. it is time." me." es! you all deserve something epic! so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? yep! every business deserves it...

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supersonic wifi. only from xfinity. it can power hundreds of devices with three times the bandwidth. so your growing wifi needs will be met. supersonic wifi only from us... xfinity. this is elodia. she's a recording artist. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist, and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. joining me now is a retired u.s. army general john spencer,

the carom of urban warfare studies. he is no stranger to war, serving more than 25 years in the army including two combat tours in iraq. he's also the author of the book "connected soldiers." major, thank for being with us today. i want to get your take on what's been going on. you and i have been talking before the war started and you were talking about ways ukrainians can protect themselves, particularly in urban warfare. now overnight we have seen what has happened in the suburbs of kyiv. the russians have left, and what they have left behind is remarkable evidence of war crimes and atrocities. how does this change your thinking if at all? >> it has to change everybody's thinking, ali. this isn't -- i studied urban warfare, been in it. this isn't bombing of civilians that can be argued away as military targets. it takes an intimate special kind of evil to wrap the hands of a civilian and shoot them in

the back of the head. war crimes is not the word for me. it's evil. if we don't stand up -- i'm speaking for myself as a u.s. citizen -- if we don't stand up, why are we a superpower? this isn't political. i'm pretty heated about this, you know that. >> mm-hmm. you are. and so i guess the issue is, as somebody who has served, because i have never done that, so me saying that the west needs to do more or nato needs to do more, and we have to look at the fact that civilians are being killed and there are atrocities sometimes rings hollow. you're saying it is different. what i say involves actual danger to people, danger to nato soldiers and pilots and american marines and naval officers. explain that to me. how do you get involved more and not get us into world war iii and not get us into a nuclear war with russia? >> hey, look, i know what this means. i know what i'm saying. i served for 25 years.

i served to protect the innocent. we are the leaders of the free world. so, yes, and my wife still serves. i don't speak for her, but i'm ready to commit at this moment, to put people in direct contact with russia, to stop russia. call it peacekeeping. call it what you will. we have to do more than provide weapons. and by "we," i mean the united states. yes, we'll do it as a coalition with lots of other people, but we are the example, so put boots on the ground, send weapons directly at russia. this is a massacre. this is a special kind of evil. >> major, what do you do and what do you say to those people? because you have them. they're around you. they're your former colleagues, your neighbors, people who say we can't get into this kind of a war with russia because specifically, since day one, since you and i first talked about this, vladimir putin keeps making references to his nuclear

arsenal. we've heard from people who say that is mutually assured destruction, that will destroy russia, he won't do it because there is no existential threat to russia right now. if nato and american troops get involved, it doesn't threaten russia in any way. but americans rightfully believe ta it might and he might use his nukes. >> i understand what that means. look, i taught strategy at west point. i understand the lines. i don't think russia has the ability to do that. it is destruction. it would remove russia. i'm not a warmonger. i served to protect the innocent. so i do think, me as a u.s. citizen, should ask our congress to authorize our president to do more, and it is a huge risk, i understand that, but today is different. >> today is different. and the innocents are in the crosshairs here. i will ask you, because you've

been talking about urban warfare since the beginning, it is rashable what the ukrainians have done, the ukrainian forces and the ukrainian citizens in terms of urban warfare, in terms of fighting back the russians, despite all the atrocities we've seen today, pushing the russians out of the suburbs of kyiv. >> absolutely. the ukrainian is not the david. they fought for us. they fought for europe. and they paid a huge price. i think we've only discovered some of the atrocities. there is still so many places we haven't gotten into that russia has deliberately cleansed, massacred civilians, but the ukrainians won up to this point. the war is not over. but they clearly -- using the urban terrain masterfully defeated russian forces. >> major john spencer, retired, the chair of the urban warfare studies at the madison policy forum, the author of "connected

soldiers." he's got important things to say. thank you for saying them here this morning. before we go, there's a new program within the nbc news family called "nbcu academy," a journalism training and development program designed to prepare college students for a career in news and media and to help people who are already in the field to gain new skills. it's got free online content, including a new behind-the-scenes look at how my crew and i have been able to capture the story of the ukrainian refugee crisis, how it specifically grimed the nation of hungary and what it took to get it all on air. the video is called "behind the story: refugees fleeing ukraine." but if you go to nbcuacademy.com, you'll see videos from a lot of my colleagues. journalism is a noble calling for those of you who are considering it. we hope you join our ranks. that does it for me. thanks for watching. catch me next week from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. eastern and all through the coming week as i host 9:00 p.m. eastern "the

rachel maddow show." go nowhere. "the sunday show" with jonathan capehart begins right now. a potential breakthrough. president zelenskyy and vladimir putin could meet for peace talks as russia pulls back from kyiv, leaving scenes of devastation. but is this a turning point? i'll ask state department spokesperson ned price. here comes the judge and his wife. growing calls for justice clarence thomas to recuse himself as the january 6th committee considers whether to subpoena ginni thomas. committee member and house intelligence chair adam schiff is here to discuss the latest. and desantis versus disney. the florida governor takes on the state's largest private employer for denouncing his