hi there, i'm hallie jackson in washington, in for alex witt today. and we're starting with breaking news of a mass shooting in sacramento. we know at least six people have been killed, ten others hurt after the shooting started right around 2:00 a.m. local time, very early this morning east coast time. you've got police looking through the scene outside a couple of different nightclubs. video of it shows a bunch of gunshots and people running through the streets in sacramento, which is of course california's capital. police say they have not made arrests yet. the investigation could take a matter of days now. joining us now on the phone, a community organizer who was there on the scene not too long after the shooting happened. barry, thank you so much for being on the show, good afternoon to you. >> no problem, thank you.

>> and i should say good morning in california, where you are. tell us what happened. >> just a chaotic scene, random victims running from the scene with blood all over their clothes. victims trying to find their loved ones. screaming for help, one of the most heartbreaking things was a mother asking where her son was, believing he was one of the victims, and he was one of the victims. >> that's awful, i can't imagine the heartbreak in an instant like that. tell me what sacramento is like typically this time of the morning. >> vibrant, you still have people doing their daily jogs, folks are getting ready to prepare for the sacramento kings game that's going to happen this afternoon. towards the nighttime, it's normal night life, like any other downtown you have. unfortunately a place that usually has heavy police

presence, i don't know if the police where somewhere else at this particular time, but this kind of violence doesn't normally happen downtown. unfortunately due to the pandemic, you see the increase of violence not only in the downtown area but in multiple communities in sacramento. unfortunately a lot of us, community organizers, folks that deal with gun prevention and violence prevention throughout the city, we've also kind of seen this happening eventually, that the violence was no longer restricted to poverty-stricken areas and communities of color but this was going to be moments like this happening, because there hasn't been a proper investment of more resources to give people what they need. >> you know, we are still waiting to hear, as we talk about the police response, waiting to hear more from them, not sure at this point, it's tbd, whether there will be a

news conference in sacramento later on on this. barry, have you talked with law enforcement at all about what you witnessed in those moments outside those clubs? >> yeah, law enforcement has -- you know, they've been very touch and go with the information, it's so new. i think the type of violence we're witnessing, the type of targeting that this tragic mass shooting was, i think that's why there hasn't been that much said. this is definitely not a situation that was random. unfortunately i'm sure there was multiple victims that probably weren't even the targets. but at the same particular time, here we are, another moment. just last month we had five people dying, right? and it just seems like it's happening more often. unfortunately for sacramento, it's no longer happening in restricted areas. it's happening in areas like downtown. >> barry axios, thank you so much for being with us. we're glad to have your

perspective. we just heard, actually as we were in that conversation, that city hall is now open in sacramento as an area for resources, for people, victims' families, et cetera. we'll stay on top of this story and bring you any updates as we get them this afternoon. the big story today, breaking news on the war in ukraine and reaction to the possibility of face-to-face talks between these two men, volodymyr zelenskyy and vladimir putin. negotiators say it is possible the leaders could meet. but we're hearing something different from russia's chief negotiator who says ukraine is only now starting to realistically consider russia's demands, saying the draft is not yet at the point for some kind of face-to-face summit to be warranted, all coming with claims of genocide today. the pictures we're about to show you are graphic.

ukrainian forces say they've found civilian corpses lining the streets of the city of bucha has russian troops retreated. let's go to correspondent richard engel. >> reporter: some appear to have been killed execution-style, with their hands tied behind their bags. there are reports of quickly-dug mass graves, widespread looting, and rape. this is consistent with what we've been hearing in other parts of ukraine, directly from victims. >> richard says more than 300 people have been killed. ukraine's foreign minister is demanding major g7 sanctions on russia and european leaders have all condemned the killings. >> you can't help but see these images as a punch to the gut. we can't become numb to this.

we can't normalize this. this is the reality of what's going on every single day, as long as russia's brutality against ukraine continues. >> also happening new today, another push to get more than 100,000 civilians out of the hard-hit city of mariupol. they've been trapped there and now there is this evacuation attempt that's happening there in the luhansk and donetsk regions, three key areas where analysts expect russia to step up its fighting for the next few days. overnight we saw russia claim responsibility for an attack on few depots in odesa, another city people had been watching, when would russia step up the attacks there. this is a critical ukrainian port city on the black sea. nbc's gabe gutierrez has the latest from lviv. >> reporter: hallie, good afternoon. there was at least some hope that presidents putin and zelenskyy could potentially meet face-to-face as negotiators try

to come up with terms for any sort of peace agreement. meanwhile, new video from the kyiv suburbs as russian forces pull out. we should warn you, some of these images are disturbing. new explosions in southern ukraine. air strikes near the historic port city of odesa. russia says it destroyed an oil refinery and fuel storage facilities, as russian troops fall back in the northern part of the country. the carnage is grim in the suburb of kyiv. bodies lying on the streets of bucha. those people were just walking and russian troops shot them without any reason, according to this man. president zelenskyy says russian forces are leaving behind a total catastrophe as they fall back. they're mining the whole territory, he says. yet there's a potential breakthrough in the war. the stage may be set for a face-to-face meeting between president zelenskyy and president putin. the lead ukrainian negotiator says russia has verbally

accepted all of ukraine's positions except on crimea. nothing in writing yet, he says, but a meeting may happen in turkey, quote, in the near future. in mariupol, a rare sliver of good news. ukrainian officials say hundreds of people were evacuated from the besieged city in private transport, these evacuation buses a lifeline after weeks of misery. and as the fighting rages in southern and eastern ukraine, americans are teaching ukrainian doctors to be field medics. jay arta is a former marine, now a registered nurse from south carolina. >> hemorrhage control, teaching them, if they're bleeding, you need to get the bleeding controlled. >> reporter: these volunteers, called the global surgical medical support group, dropped everything to help with the war effort. >> this is the most clear-cut version of good versus evil that we've seen in the european continent since world war ii. you literally have an authoritarian dictator trying to take over another country.

why would we not try and help here? >> reporter: russia's chief negotiator says work on a peace treaty will resume tomorrow. but, he says, he does not share the same optimism about a potential meeting between presidents putin and zelenskyy. >> our gabe gutierrez reporting from lviv. i want to bring in a correspondent at large for "the washington post" and an msnbc contributor. thank you so much for your time this afternoon. can you tell us a little bit, the focus so much this morning is on the atrocities that seem to be happening in bucha. what has your team seen in that city? >> in many ways, this isn't surprising, hallie. weeks ago, we were interviewing hundreds of people fleeing from the towns of irpin and bucha who were telling us stories about seeing russian snipers killing civilians, civilian bodies on

the streets. what we're seeing today is that everything was true, all these shocking images of bodies on the streets, many of them elderly, it seemed, lying there, is just utterly shocking, even though we were aware that this was quite possibly what was going to happen when the russians left. >> i want to play for you what state department spokesperson ned price said about the images you're describing. we don't have that sound bite, but he essentially was talking about exactly this idea, what you're talking about. what the question seems to be now is the potential of evidence of war crimes, violations of the rules of war. i don't want to put you in a difficult position, but can you talk a little bit about the international community's response to these images and at what point it would cross that line? >> you know what, the ukrainians are already, in the past few weeks, they've been gathering

evidence for a potential war crimes case against russia. they've sent video teams and others, investigators, to almost every single site where they believe there was a civilian area that was hit. so no doubt, what we're seeing here in bucha and other cities, these are all going to be collected, these are all going to be evidence that will be collected, put together, and offered as evidence for a possible war crimes case. now, the big question is, it's extremely difficult to try such cases. the russians are obviously going to make some serious arguments saying that these in fact were legitimate military targets because there was either military equipment there or troops or even because ukrainians, there's been so many ukrainian civilians who have taken up arms against russia to protect their country, the russians could make an argument that they were just shooting civilians who are armed. but of course these are things that war crimes investigators

need to go through. and they have to create an incredibly solid case against the russians for such. and i think, from people i've been speaking to, they are quite confident they can gather this kind of evidence, some of which we're literally seeing live on camera. >> ukrainian president zelenskyy on "face the nation" just this morning calling it genocide. i think your heading to poland, right, you've been in ukraine, you're heading to poland, you've been talking to members of ukrainian troops in ukraine. what is your reporting on the prospects for keeping up the resistance, the prospects for potentially peace down the road? >> that's correct, i just left ukraine actually this morning. but i did spend the past week talking to quite a number of ukrainian soldiers. i also visited this town a couple of days ago that was actually liberated from the russians. there too i saw corpses, russian

corpses as well as civilian corpses. we saw them there. but what was striking about my conversations with the soldiers, they were extremely confident. they had managed to push the russians out, used guerilla tactics to get them out. the russians too had run out of supplies and didn't have enough reinforcements so they ended up leaving. so the ukrainians are extremely confident. in the event this war turns towards the eastern part of ukraine, which russia suggested it was going to do, the ukrainians are -- will take their victories here around kyiv with them towards the east. and especially as they call for more military equipment, which is coming forth from the united states and other countries, they're going to be even in a better position to ward off the russian threat in the east. >> thank you so much for being with us. we would love to have you back

on the network, you're doing just incredible work out there and we're glad to have you share your perspective and what you're seeing on the ground. it's so important to share those stories. thank you. peace talks are picking up between ukrainian and russian officials even though the kremlin has basically pooh-pooh'd the idea of a meeting between presidents putin and zelenskyy. one of the most contentious issues is the ukrainian demand for a security guarantee, this idea that other countries would sign on board to say they would, if ukraine is attacked, help secure ukraine in return for ukraine's pledge of neutrality. president zelenskyy today said this doesn't seem to be working out as ukraine hoped. >> translator: so we don't believe in papers any longer. we are very grateful for the support of the united states indeed, and it's very powerful support. but in terms of security guarantees, we have not received them yet from anyone and we have to get them. i'm not as a president satisfied

with just assurance, because -- >> that was president zelenskyy there, of course. who you see here is the former ambassador to nato during the obama administration, now president of the chicago council on global affairs. ambassador, good to see you again. >> my pleasure. >> how do you interpret what president zelenskyy says here, the idea, as we know, he has not gotten the security guarantees he's hoped for yet. >> well, it's not surprising in many ways. this is a key demand from the ukrainians and from the ukrainian perspective that makes total sense. it was the absence of real security guarantees and the violation of security assurances by the russians and frankly the u.s. and the uk who agreed in 1994 to recognize and assure the territorial independence and the borders as they existed then of ukraine in return for ukraine giving up nuclear weapons. so they want something better, they want something bigger, they

want something bolder in order to have security guarantees. there are two members. one is, in a peace agreement, that would mean the russians would have to agree to those security assurances by third parties, and it's exactly the worry that ukraine might be moving too far to the west that led in part to this war. and then secondly, of course, the third parties, including the united states, would have to provide those security assurances which up to this point haven't been forthcoming. ukraine is not a member of nato because the members of nato can't agree on moving it as part of a member of nato. so this is a really tricky part of the negotiation which gives me pause on the reports that we're anywhere close to a deal with -- between these two parties. >> and i talked to experts who have said that the best way for any kind of drawdown to this war to happen would be potentially for this face-to-face meeting. but as you note, it seems like we're still a long ways off from that. you have ukraine's chief

negotiator saying hey, these draft documents are ready, sort of setting the table for a summit. the kremlin is saying pretty much the exact opposite. how should we understand this? >> so this has been going on for a while, the ukrainians have been making the point that things are moving forward, we are ready to talk, we are ready to sit down, president zelenskyy is ready to sit down, and the russians are saying the opposite, we're very far apart. i think this is part of an information war that has been going to that the ukrainians, frankly, have been extraordinarily successful in. president zelenskyy has emerged as a really incredible spokesperson for his country, both at home and internationally. and i think the ukrainians are sending the message, we are willing to negotiate, we're willing to sit down, we're willing to end this war, it's not happening because the russians aren't willing to sit down with us, the russians aren't willing to end this war and the russians are engaging in the kind of behavior we just talked about, which is criminal. >> i wasn't just going to bring this up, you've got on the one

hand this discussion of peace but on the other russia carrying out what we're seeing in bucha, those horrific images of civilians who -- bodies in the streets, right, some of them with their hands tied. it's horrific, it's awful. it seems as though those are the actions of russia even while they're trying to come to the table with these so-called peace talks here. >> yeah, and it's not just a bunch of russian soldiers who are engaging in criminal behavior. this is systematic. we've seen this kind of behavior now for five plus weeks in which the russians are bombing civilian hospitals and everything. it comes from the top. it is vladimir putin who is dehumanizing the ukrainians who he used to call brothers and sisters, now calling them nazis, in a way to encourage people to take -- his own soldiers to take these horrific kinds of actions. it's really hard to see at this point, after all we've seen,

president zelenskyy sits down with president putin and says let's let bygones be bygones and figure out how to get to a peace agreement. i don't think we're ready for that yet. >> ambassador, thank you so much for your perspective and expertise this afternoon, we appreciate you spending part of your sunday with us. thank you. >> my pleasure. returning to news at home, a member of the january 6th hearing today that jared kushner provided some pretty valuable testimony last week. this week, the committee will tries to force at least two trump administration officials to tell all or at least tell something, after the break. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. people with moderate to severe psoriasis, or psoriatic arthritis, are rethinking the choices they make like the splash they create the way they exaggerate

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to capitol hill now, where the january 6th committee is hitting what they're calling a critical stage of this investigation. and let's look at what's happening tomorrow. you've got the house rules committee set to vote on whether to recommend that the justice department charge these two people, peter navarro, dan

scavino, two former top aides to former president trump. they have not complied with subpoenas from the january 6th committee. nbc's allie raffa is joining us from the hill. allie, it seems to be shaping up to a fairly significant 24 hours for the january 6th committee, look it's not the whole kit and caboodle, the full house would have to vote over referring those charges of contempt to the department of justice. >> reporter: that's right, and we're expecting all of this to happen this week, after on monday the january 6th committee voted unanimously to refer criminal contempt charges for former trump advisers peter navarro, dan scavino, after they for months skirted subpoenas. they said that they had executive privileges that only former president trump could waive. they used that as their reasoning for why they didn't want to talk to the committee. and remember, this has to go, like you said, before the house

rules committee first, before it's voted on on the house floor. they're scheduled to meet tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. and even when -- if and when it does pass there, it is very likely that this will pass in the house, given the fact that the house has a democratic majority. but still, congress can't criminally convict these two. it then has to go to the department of justice. this is the department of justice under attorney general merrick garland, someone who the committee is growing increasingly frustrated with, after several other criminal contempt charges that they've referred to the department of justice that have for the large part gone really unactionable, specifically former white house chief of staff mark meadows. and they're really not the only ones who are upset by all of this. "the new york times" the reporting today that president biden privately has told confidants that he wants the attorney general to, and i'm quoting "the times" here, act

less like a ponderous judge and more like a prosecutor who is willing to take decisive action over the events of january 6th. house intel committee chairman and a member of the january 6th committee adam schiff actually agreed with the president this morning on msnbc. listen here. >> i think the justice department is erring on the side of not wanting to create controversy by investigating those that may have committed crimes but nonetheless were high up in the last administration. i just don't think that's tenable, if there's evidence of crime, it needs to be investigated regardless of who it is. >> reporter: and hallie, the reason that the committee members are so frustrated by all of this is because they face a really -- a real hard deadline of midterm elections, possibly months before that, to get all of this work done. house minority leader kevin mccarthy has said if republicans win back the house majority there is a very real chance that

the committee as it exists today will not exist under a republican majority. this is weighing on the shoulders of committee members as they try to wrap up their work in time to hold those public hearings that were originally scheduled for february and we're hearing that they will take place, hopefully, members say, in may. >> before the summer starts, we'll see. nbc's allie raffa, good to see you. thank you so much for that reporting. coming up, whether good news on friday will give the president something he really needs, that's next. needs, that's next landscaper ly and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪

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our newest nbc news poll shows that even though president biden -- you're looking at the president, by the way, just yesterday in wilmington, delaware -- still is struggling to gain the nation's approval in some ways, he's still doing better than former president donald trump.

37% of people have a positive view of president biden, 46% have a negative view. that's compared to donald trump's 36% positivity, 50% negative. peter baker, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," thank you for spending part of your weekend with us. >> yes, absolutely. >> some of the things we're seeing in this new poll, what's interesting is the number of people, and this is not shocking, who say cost of living and jobs and the economy are the two biggest things, the two most important issues to them right now. that is consistent, i think, with what we often see from people especially as we're heading into a midterm year but right now the economy is doing pretty well, wages run, unemployment is down, right? the u.s. added 431,000 jobs, we found out, on friday, one of several jobs reports in a row that have been good for president biden but it feels like this inflation issue still continues to drag him down. is that a misread or do you think there's some truth to that? >> no, i think that's exactly right. it is a good economy in many ways, certainly president trump was always bragging when he had

an unemployment rate around the same amount. 400,000 is a lot of jobs, we've gotten back almost all the jobs we lost in the pandemic. openings are actually fewer, it's actually kind of hard for employers to find workers. that's good for workers, obviously, wages are going up. but you're right, the inflation seemed to overwhelm that, at least with many voters. they are seeing it in their pocketbooks, they're going to the stores and paying more for groceries, seeing it at the pump, which is influenced both by inflation and by this international crisis with russia. that seems to have taken away any of the sheen from the good aspects of the economy right now. whether they're able to get ahold of inflation or not, that's going to be the real challenge for president biden, the federal reserve, in these months to come. it's an international problem, by the way. i notice the european union inflation rate is pretty close to america's right now. it may be something that's beyond the control of a particular president to solve in the near term but that's bad for him politically. >> talk about the release of oil from the strategic petroleum reserves that the president announced on friday, a history-making move.

this is a big deal, a million barrels a day for the next six months, is what the president has rolled out here. how much of a difference do you think that's going to make, from a big picture level but also from a microconsumer level, peter, for people who live in this country, who are voters, who have to go fill their gas tanks? >> absolutely, i filled mine the other day, you absolutely notice it every time you go to the pump. this is what the strategic reserve was built for, an emergencies situation. in the last 50 years since they've had it, they've built out a little here and a little there to get through a few days of trouble. no president has done what president biden has talked about doing here, a million barrels a day for six months, that's a lot. it's about 5%, roughly, of what america uses every day. that's a significant amount. it may not be enough to keep the prices down, it may keep them from getting higher than they would have otherwise gone. america has its own reserves, we're not dependent on the rest of the world. but of course the rest of the

world is all fungible, the amount of oil out there, wherever it's actually drilled, there's a certain limit globally. there are a lot of competitors for that oil. so it will help, obviously. i don't know how much it will make a difference in, you know -- whether people will see it at the pump or not, that's something economists would know better than i would. >> what's the story about the biden white house that's not being told? what's the piece you're eager to write that you feel like nobody else is really touching it? >> that would be giving things away, wouldn't it? i think this is a really interesting dynamic, because president biden is, as you point out in that poll, roughly at the same, slightly better regarded by the country than president trump. we're in a very polarized country right now, where basically you're on one side or the other and almost nothing will move you and no president, basically since the days after 9/11 when george w. bush was at 90%, no president has had a lot of support from a large segment

of the population. i was looking at some history the other day, and, you know, back during foreign crises, we used to rally around our presidents even when they did badly. john f. kennedy went up to 80 something percent after the bay of pigs, which was one of the biggest debacles we had, kennedy said, if i keep screwing up like this, i'll do even better. ones who are outliers like president trump in terms of normal conduct of things, or very conventional like president biden, it doesn't matter, we're locked into our views of these people, up or down, us -- you know, us and them. and it's a remarkable dynamic to governing right now, it's hard to see for biden how he could ever do anything to shift that and that's a bad thing going into the midterm for the democrats. >> you talk about, you know, a president leading in a moment of crisis, right, particularly international crisis, which is what president biden is doing now as it relates to this war in ukraine. it felt like, peter, at least in the last few weeks, maybe the

first few weeks of this invasion, you did see republicans in some ways hold off and hold their fire against president biden, for the most part, there were some notable exceptions, of course. how much do you think that is making a difference for president biden? because you look at some of the numbers here, and actually he is doing fairly well, when you look at public approval as it relates to his leadership on the war in ukraine. >> yeah, the public seems to support what president biden is doing, they want him to do more. in other words there is a general consensus that the united states has a role to play here, that it's important to stand up to russia, that the americans are willing to pay a price, so they say, economically for the sanctions that have been put on, that they are okay about arming the ukrainians. they don't want to go in with american troops, all of which is what president biden's policy is and more or less what republicans would advocate for. but that doesn't seem to redound to the president himself.

polls show americans support the policies but not the president who put the policies in place. when we identify it with a politician, a president that we don't like, we're not willing to give him or her the credit or the benefit of the doubt. >> peter baker, "the new york times," peter, always great to see you. coming up, wife of supreme court justice chance thomas looks like to be somebody that the january 6th committee wants to speak with. but will she talk? because after all these emails, my eyes feel like a combo of stressed, dry and sandpaper. strypaper? why do we all put up with this? when there's biotrue hydration boost eye drops. biotrue uses naturally inspired ingredients like an electrolyte, antioxidant, even your tears' own moisturizer. and no preservatives. these ingredients are true to your eyes' biology. see? bio.true.

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if you are in ned for some more "morning joe," tomorrow is your lucky day. joe, mika, and willie expand the show to four hours tomorrow morning, april 4th, get ready. back here on this show, the house is expected to refer two of trump's aides to the department of justice because peter navarro and dan scavino have not complied with subpoenas from the january 6th committee. the house will vote in days on whether to send that to the department of justice. congressman ted lieu, good to see you back on this show, thanks for being with us. >> thank you, hallie. >> do you expect that this vote will pass, to hold navarro and

scavino in contempt? i assume the answer is yes. >> thank you for your question. it is illegal to ignore a congressional subpoena. so the house will vote to hold dan scavino and peter navarro in contempt. i believe the vote will pass and that it will get bipartisan support. >> why is it important to you that that happens? >> because in america, we operate based on the rule of law, not a cult of personality. and if people are just going to ignore congressional subpoenas the way steve bannon did, they will be held in contempt and the department of justice will indict them. >> bannon, of course, was charged, right, the doj did move fast on that front, still nothing yet on former trump chief of staff mark meadows, though. now there are likely to be, as you referenced, two more people added to the doj's plate relating to contempt charges. what is your perspective on the way doj is handling this? >> you make a good point about

mark meadows, i am not sure why he has not been indicted because he is also ignoring a congressional subpoena the same way steve bannon did. it's been almost four months since the vote in december. so i urge the department of justice to make a decision and make a decision soon. >> are you worried that merrick garland is dragging his feet? >> the department of justice does not always do press releases on what they are doing, in fact most of the time they don't tell the public what they're doing. so it's really hard to know exactly what they're investigating at this point in time. >> okay. i hear you giving them the benefit of the doubt. >> yes. but we can't wait too much longer, because at some point these people who are ignoring subpoenas will just run out the clock, which is why i believe we should also independently pursue something called inherent contempt. that is a power the supreme court has upheld allowing congress to enforce our own subpoenas. and i have legislation to execute inherent contempt within

congress. >> speaking of supreme court, on a different matter, let's talk here about the wife of supreme court justice chance thomas, and that is ginni thomas. i know you've been following the use as it relates to what's been coming out about her the last couple of weeks, not just the text meadows to mark meadows but the daily beast is reporting ginni thomas had daily access to the white house, although some of the reporting says it depends on who you talk to, some say she had influence, others that most white house staffers just ignored her. >> based on ginni thomas' text messages and the articles about her, she sure seems like a crackpot. that doesn't mean that you can't be a crackpot in america. you can be that, except she was communicating directly with a chief of staff of the former president on january 6th. she was advocating for him to

continue to try to overturn the election, to delay the certification results, and the american public need to know what actions did mark meadows take or others that she communicated with. we need to know what happened on january 6th, why it happened, how it happened, to make sure it doesn't happen again. so she needs to testify. >> i would like to ask you to put on your foreign affairs committee hat and turn to the war in ukraine. we've been seeing these images coming out of bucha this morning that are horrific. do you believe the russian president, based on these, is committing war crimes? >> absolutely, these video, images, out of bucha are difficult to watch. these are execution style murders of civilians. i think the united states and nato need to respond. in the u.s., i would recommend that we take actions, diplomatic, military, and economic spheres, including sanctioning all banks, not just some banks, in russia, kicking out the russian ambassador to the u.s. and giving ukraine all

the weapons platforms it has requested. >> you talked about some of the actions you want the u.s. to take, not just weapons, but you're calling specifically for fighter jets. you wrote that you again urge the dod to adopt this more realistic view of escalation, vladimir putin is not going to launch a nuclear war because ukraine got some fighter jets. do you feel like there is an appetite among your colleagues to do just this? >> absolutely. and it is a bipartisan view, that we should get aircraft to ukraine. i previously served in active duty in the united states air force, i'm a graduate of air war college. what's one of the first things the u.s. military does when engaging an opposing military? we establish air superiority. so i'm asking our department of defense to simply follow our very own military doctrine and give ukraine their aircraft they need to win. >> congressman ted lieu, thank you so much for being with us on a sunday afternoon, i appreciate your time. next up, we're staying on

this topic, the war in ukraine. and one of the many potential worst case scenarios. we'll talk about how the country is getting ready in case of a chemical attack from russia, that's after the break.

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increasing tensions with russia have some experts worried about the possibility of cyber warfare. we haven't seen much of it yet, but the biden administration has issued this warningtous companies to bolster their cyber defenses. so how prepared is the u.s. for this potential threat? our business tech reporter, jake ward, has more. >> reporter: at first glance, you might think these students playing with miniature models are innocent hobbyists, but they're not. >> we've been attacking and protecting cargo ships, hospitals, chemical tanks, pumps, all sorts of industrial control systems. >> reporter: this is a hackathon, arranged by the national security agency with help from a cybersecurity nonprofit that trains students to head off cyber attacks on

industrial facilities. >> maritime cybersecurity impacts the supply chain. you know, a great percentage of our ecosystem and economic power comes from imports and exports. >> hackers show that a bit of code can disrupt all of that. in this case, attacking the same systems that steer and propel full-sized shipping vessels. >> we are attacking a real system that could be used in a real ship. it's just a fake ship here. but if we were attacking a real system, we could have done some damage to the ship and to the car depot on that ship. and the economy of the country who owns the ship. >> around the world, the best and brightest are usually recruited into military and government roles, but the u.s. is a decentralized place. >> 80% of what is operated as critical infrastructure in the united states is privately owned. so the government can't do this job. we have to have partnerships. >> reporter: president biden is now calling for the public and private sector to shore up its cyber defenses. at the cybersecurity and

infrastructure agency just gathered u.s. companies to ask that they be on high alert and share any signs of attack. meanwhile, these students are learning to think like somebody who wants to cripple a port or poison a city. >> everything has computers attached. and it's only a matter of whiched aerer sar is willing to go how far to try to damage either physically or economically the nation. and we have to have experts who can prevent that. >> our thanks to our jake ward for that story on the threat of cyber warfare. coming up on the show. the nomination of judge ketanji brown jackson to the supreme court, taking a big step forward this week. we'll talk about that expectations coming up in our next hour right here on msnbc. ou next hour right here on msnbc. ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪

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i'm hallie jackson in washington, in for alex witt on this sunday afternoon. good to be with you, and we start this hour with news on the war if ukraine. russia pushing back on claims that it carried out a massacre during its retreat from the ukrainian city of bucha. and we've got to warn you here, the images we're about to show you, they are disturbing. they are horrific. the russian ministry of defense calling the images of corpses lining the streets quote another provocation. that is not what we're hearing from nato's secretary general, who calls this what it is.

horrific. >> it is a brutality dpens civilians. we haven't seen in europe for decades. and it's horrific and it's absolutely unacceptable that civilians are targeted and killed and it just underlines the importance of that this war must end. and it is president putin's responsibility to stop the war. >> ukrainian officials say more than 300 people were killed in bucha, and that many of them look to have been killed execution style at close range. some with their hands tied behind their backs. russia is also today dismissing ukraine's claims that president's vladimir putin and zoeld mir zelenskyy would be in for talks. here's secretary of state tony blinken. >> i'm not going to get ahead of

any details that might come into some kind of an agreement. but we'll want to make sure that we do what we can to help ukraine defend itself going forward, to deter future russian aggression. there are many things that could go into that. >> joining us this hour now, nbc's ali aruezi live for us in lviv. raf sanchez is in budapest. and admiral james stavridis is also with us. what has happened in bucha has been, i think, capturing the world's attention with you heard it there, the outrage from some of the top international leaders on what has happened there. tell me what you're hearing from ukraine and what would happen next. where this goes as the icc is now coming in to investigate, apparently. >> reporter: hi, hallie. after weeks of intense, ferocious fighting around kyiv, the ukrainians say that the russians have made a rapid