on saturday, ukrainian forces marched into that city, celebrating its liberation from russian control. but what they were met with was far from victory. it was horror. here you can see the lifeless appears to be civilians's thrown out across the street. ukrainian authorities have accused russian forces of planting explosives on the bodies of the people who were killed. here is a member of the ukrainian resistance tying it up to one of the dead, and dragging them away. now, the towns mayor says nearly 300 people have been buried in mass graves like the one shown here. and we should know that nbc has not independently been able to verify these claims. when asked about these atrocities, president zelenskyy had a very blunt answer. watch. >> is this genocide? >> [interpreter] indeed.

this is genocide [end of translation] . >> human rights watch says it has documented several cases of russian military forces committing war crimes against civilians in occupied areas across ukraine. russia has previously denied such allegations. and today, its defense ministry actually rejected claims that their forces have killed any civilians in bucha. here is secretary of state tony blinken this morning. >> you can't help but see these images as a punch to the gut. we can't become numb to this. we can't normalize this. this is the reality of what's going on every single day as long as russia's brutality against ukraine continues. >> now, we are five weeks into this invasion. five weeks of bearing witness to the destruction of putin's war. last week, it was mariupol. today, it is bucha. so i'm asking, how many civilians have to die for people to realize this isn't

just the same old warfare? these are warcrimes. and vladimir putin needs to be held accountable. for more than six weeks now, a member of the ukrainian parliament has actually been traveling across this country, documenting artist trying to document russia's assault and all of this. and earlier today, i actually had a chance to speak with him from kyiv. >> thank you so much for joining us this evening. i have been following you on social media and seeing all that you have been posting. i know that you are in kyiv right now, but earlier today, you shared a video from the city of bucha showing what appears to be a mass grave. and ukraine's foreign ministry has accused russia of carrying out a massacre in that city. it has requested that the international criminal court visit the scene. we should know that russia has denied intentionally killing civilians, and we at nbc have

not independently verified those claims. but i want you as a person on the ground over there, to tell us what you have witnessed. >> hello. i witnessed really real massacre in not only bucha. india bucha, hostomel, irpin where you, which is close to kyiv. i don't know the russian federation is denying because there's so many evidence and there are a witnesses of what had happened. and a number of international journalists. i don't know, dozens of international journalists are working today. i saw them in bucha speaking with people and filming. they're filming the awful results of this massacre. people, bodies of people, killed people, are all around on the streets, in the burn cars. i saw a burn car where there

was a family of three women, and one of them, her body is still in the car just decapitated. it is so awful. again, if the number of places near kyiv, it's not only bucha, but a number of places. i saw a car with a child, 11 years old, probably. i can't explain to you how awful is this. it is a real massacre. and russians are guilty in this. this is a war crime, and this is a genocide. for me, just in the middle of europe, and the 21st century, we as a country, the international community, we invite or journalist throughout the whole world, and including your respectful tv channel, please come and see everything in your own eyes. we speak with those people who

are under occupation for one month, and we'll get through. >> you, sir, have spent the last six weeks traveling across ukraine. you have been risking your life to document the damage that has been caused by russia's invasion on social media. how does what you've seen just within the last 24 hours compare over the last six weeks? is the situation getting worse in the areas that you are visiting now? >> that, what's happened there, it happened not yesterday, not the day before yesterday, it happened a month ago, three weeks ago. during these months of occupation. and especially, the first days of occupation, and the beginning of march. but unfortunately, this genocide is continuing. in mariupol, for example, people are still getting killed, i don't know numbers, but there are thousands of civilians held in mariupol, thousands of them.

unfortunately, parts of mariupol is now occupied by russians. and they're not allowed to go there, to the international donor list. for example, today, we received news that lithuanian documentary, i was trying to document all what has happened in mariupol was killed there by russia. so that is really dangerous, and they're doing everything just to interfere with these attempts to document what they're doing. but it is impossible to hide, because it's about thousands and thousands of people. and putin is using the same tactics he did in syria, where he destroyed a number of cities, including aleppo. in chechnya, the russians destroyed grozny, which was the capital of this republic. so it's not, it's not completely new. what is new as the scale of this, because even at this time,

it is like the scale of second world war. and the russians are doing and killing like really the nazis of the 21st century. >> what is your message to the international community now, based on everything that you've seen, based on the fact that this war is not yet over, what do you want to see happen to save your country, and to save the people that are inside? >> just stop all the business with russia, the russian federation. because in every drop of russian oil, there is ukrainian blood. in every cubic meter of russian gas is ukrainian blood. all companies which continue to work in russia and provide to their budget, they are financing this awful killings of civilians, of women and children, in ukraine, and not only in ukraine. that is first my message.

the second part of my message is to help us with weapons, because russia is continuing to target our -- in our country from the whole country. today, my native city, odessa, was hit by 11 ballistic missiles. and maybe russia will say why they're bombing our cities, and who's doing this. so the war is not over but we need weapons to stop russia in the air. on the ground, we're not only holding the ground, but we are counterattacking, and we are now liberating our towns, and we want the battle for kyiv. but we do need today is we need help in air, to stop them in the air. so please, provide us with weapons. we don't have -- we ask for weapons, air defense an aircraft. >> all right, mr. oleksiy goncharenko, member of the ukrainian parliament, sir, thank you so much for joining

us. please stay safe. we'll continue to follow your work in ukraine. thank you. >> thank you. >> all right, let's continue this conversation now with a professor of european university at georgetown university, and served as an adviser to the romanian president. she's also a -- it's great to have you with us this evening. first, i want to get your reaction to what we're actually seeing and hearing coming out of bucha, as mister oleksiy goncharenko mentioned there. we've seen this before in places like syria, in chechnya. is this time any different? and can vladimir putin actually be held accountable for what he is doing in bucha and elsewhere? >> thank you for having me. it's good to be with you. i think it is different in what my ukrainian colleague was saying, different that we haven't seen the same scale as we do now. and we haven't seen that in europe, we haven't seen these

atrocities. and what's seems to me pretty evident from the videos and the pictures that we're seeing is that this was purposeful this was an order for the russian troops to kill people in front of their houses, so that we see that. and in the russian mind, that is intended to humiliate the west, to show us what they're capable of, and to make us fear. and so, if this goes back to the request of ukrainians and the international experts to have vladimir putin and his aides put on trial for war crimes. i hope this will be quickened as a process. but the consequences of that will be minimal, because as we know, there is very little chance that the russians will give up all these people guilty of warcrimes to an

international court. so i'm afraid, with the international system that we have with the united nations being blocked by russia, as we speak, the consequences, in terms of putting them on trial and holding them responsible for the world to see, or pretty limited. >> this morning, president zelenskyy was actually asked about security promises made by the u.s. and nato. i want to play that for you. take a listen. >> so we don't believe in papers any longer. we are very grateful for the support of the united states, indeed. and it's very powerful support. but in terms of security guarantees, we have not received them yet from anyone. and we have to get them. so i'm not, as a president, satisfied with just assurance. [end of translation] >> what does ukraine need from the united states? >> indeed, it means security

guarantees. you know, this brings me back to what people, not just in ukraine, but in romania or poland or the baltic countries believe that the only power that can actually be able to offer security guarantees in this case, to ukraine, but also neighboring countries is the united states. with its military might, with its liberal democracy. the other allies with the nato our allies. and so, that's what ukraine is seeking. they're asking for nato membership, which we are not ready to grant, just like we weren't in 2008, when france and germany vetoed. and so, they're asking, can we get around this veto, and can we have real security guarantees? we've seen, just a few days ago, the negotiations in turkey, with a list of countries as possible security guarantors, and the united states was not

on that list. so when i think they are seeking is very reasonable, a major ministry power that can guarantee their security, in case this war ends, in case russia attacks again. and only the united states, with its allies, can do that. so that's why they're asking for. it seems that we in the western at yeti ready to grant that. but they're was an impact, so to speak, because they cannot guarantee their own security by themselves. so we're looking at this as a possibly protracted conflict with no real, so to speak, western outcome for ukraine, as the western community is not ready for them to join. we've seen the same case with eu candidates. several neighbor countries, eu members, have asked the eu for candidates states with ukraine,

and the eu is not fighting for that either. >> so, you spoke now about the west's red lines, or what thereof, if you will, when it comes to this conflict. we've heard criticism that we've boxed ourselves by saying what's were not willing to do, whether it's impose a fly zone, or give those fighter jets. we've projected what we are not willing to do. what are the dangers of that kind of ambiguity, between saying quote we're not willing to do, but at the same time, not saying what we are willing to do, in terms of how far were willing to go? >> you know that strategy, that's a number one for students and beyond. when you are faced with the threat of mass destruction, let's not forget that russia is threatening nato with nuclear warfare, every other day. and so, when we are faced with that, as a nuclear power, and as a nuclear alliance, the only one in the world, which we need to do is to keep everything on

the table. if we exclude action, because they have nuclear weapons, this means that it creates precedence for other countries that are willing to consider that. russia has had now for over a decade, the first use strike. authentic strike against conventional warfare, exactly to intimidate us to sort of foxes into force as the self deter. so that means that every time russia is trying to attack a country that is not, does not have nuclear weapons, we ourself deterring ourselves. if they're moving on nato, and are actually dropping tactical nuclear bombs on nato territory, if we exclude action because they have nukes that this enables us. if china does the same in taiwan for example, this means that we cannot act.

so if we need -- what we need to do is keep all of our options on the table and say you cannot threaten us, and you cannot use nuclear power and nuclear weapons to intimidate us, and call it a bluff. all right, iulia sabina-joja thank you so, much i greatly appreciate your insights and analysis. tonight thanks for joining us. >> thank you for having. >> still ahead, how the russian propaganda machine is -- the use of russia and ukraine. first -- richard is here with the. headlines >> a, good evening to you. some of the stories we are watching this, our police are searching for the suspect involved in a mass shooting that left six people dead and 12 injured in sacramento california. authorities say the gunfire erupted early sunday after a large flight broke out in the city's main entertainment district. at least one handgun was recovered at the scene. southwest airlines canceling hundreds of flights this weekend, stranding thousands of spring break travelers. the airline blamed the disruptions on technical problems and bad weather in

florida, according -- to at least 3000 u.s. flight overall or canceled in nearly 9000 were delayed. a funeral procession was held in fort win indiana, for fallen u.s. marine captain matthew -- now tom quits was one of the four marines killed in a plane crash during nato training exercises in norway last month. more ayman, with a man more hidden after the break. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need? oh, like how i customized this scarf? wow, first time? check out this backpack i made for marco. oh yeah? well, check out this tux. oh, nice. that'll go perfect with these. dude... those are so fire.

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politics over the last few years, you have seen one of the greatest love stories of our time. the devotion that, is between russian state media, that it has for the trump wing of the gop. but this love fest has actually taken an even darker turn in recent weeks. russian state media has amplified talking points from the likes of tucker carlson who has defended putin's brutal invasion of ukraine. this week, a russian host called on americans to forcibly remove president biden from office, and reinstall their, quote, unquote, partner donald trump. joining me now is julia ioffe -- and julia davis a columnist for the daily beast. it is great about the view with. us julia davis i will start with you, let's start by discussing this not-so-strange relationship between russian state media and its apparatus, and trump's faction of the gop. because for years, fox news

personalities have actually echoed kremlin talking points, and in return, russian media has offered trump and his allies this kind of glowing coverage. how has that dynamic evolved during putin's war in ukraine as russia escalates its barbaric tactics? >> thank you for having me, amen. i don't want to watch fox news, but i am forced to watch fox news. not a day goes by without a glimpse of tucker carlson being showcased by the russian state television. and, a state propagandist have actually remarked that it is very unfortunate that they have lost our key which has been canceled by many of our cable network providers. but they are also adding at least we still have tucker. putin values unity for his society and his nation but for us he wants to -- the opposite. those divisions are being amplified by tucker's coverage, who is actually choosing to

side with putin and infighting guests who are claiming that russia is winning the war in ukraine, that russia is winning in terms of our sanctions that we are imposing, and those comments go like hotcakes on russian state television. they are constantly broadcasting them and tucker is doing rt work for them. >> strong watches julia ioffe, how strong is russia's internal disinformation campaign? we know they have put strict requirements on what can be -- too credulous lee share poll results from a russian pulling firm that show putin's approval has actually increased from -- 's russian state media here behind the surge in popularity? or are we right to be dubious or is there a rally behind the -- because it is involved in a war?

>> i think there is probably several things going on. first of, all russian polls from that center has told us that experience something similar in 2014 when russia first invaded ukraine, which is that there was so much -- russian propaganda coming from the russian propaganda machine that when pollsters called people, people who did not agree with the russian government's actions would duck out of the polls and declined to participate. but the people who were in favor, we're enthusiastic participants because they knew that they are lying was supported and in sync with the kremlin lie. so they got -- sampling hole. it is also, when you now have up to 15 years in jail for spreading quote unquote fakes about the war, people are obviously hesitant. over the weekend we saw a horrible story come out of

russia where an eighth grade teacher basically -- the difference between right and wrong, and why russia was being -- hit with sanctions for this war, what russia was actually doing for this war. her students, her eighth grade students recorded her, turned her into the police, the teacher is now under arrest and facing up to ten years in jail. so, you know, on one hand he has, the propaganda machine is working in overdrive. it has been for several months. and it is drowning out anybody who might be in disagreement. on the other hand, it is also clearly working. >> julia davis, perhaps the flipside of putin's propaganda machine is that he is often totally out of the loop on what is actually going on in the real world. a few weeks -- back from the atlantic wrote a piece called the dictator, at least refers to as the dictator chap.

detailing how dictators often employ strategies that result in their eventual downfall. putin should now be aware at least that he has gotten too high on his propaganda supply. how could this change his calculus going forward? >> it was very important that the biden administration put him on a hot seat by stating openly that he is probably not receiving all of the information about how poorly russia is doing militarily in ukraine. and now that would prompt him to start asking questions and hopefully start to develop more realistic views of what is going on in ukraine. unfortunately, on the flip side, the propaganda has been so effective in getting the russians excited about this war that now the entire propaganda apparatus is urging him to keep going and until he keeps getting all of ukraine. so it will be interesting to see what happens. >> and, julia ioffe, i hope you

haven't seen the absolutely horrific images out of -- today. but i imagine right now you probably have. as somebody who tracks the story very closely. is this part of putin's playbook? do you think he is ordering his soldiers to commit such monstrous atrocities? such warcrimes as they are retreating, and if so, what does it say about his psychology, and the psychology of the russian troops who are carrying these warcrimes on their way out? >> just coming out the images coming out from -- and other cities in towns around kyiv and the key regions are just absolutely horrifying. they still -- it reminds me, as it reminded many people, of the war crimes that russia committed in chechnya too much less outcry. the muslim republican in the south of russia. and the war crimes that russia

aided and embedded in syria. and we are seeing similar news come out of the south and east of ukraine, from areas that russia has occupied, the way it is kidnapping mayors, city officials, we don't want to cooperate with the russians kidnapping activists, journalists, having military people trying to track down journalist. it was what we all feared would happen when the russian army inevitably ran into popular resistance in ukraine, that they would resort to ruling by terror, the same way they did in chechnya, and in syria, and it seems to be the only thing they know how to do. as one of my friends and colleagues who is a longtime reporter on this region said, i guess, you know, some people just don't want to be liberated. >> julia davis, really quickly, you have to wonder, because propaganda is such a major part of the way vladimir putin

operates both internally, and externally, you have to wonder whether or not these images, and this atrocity was more for the war to see what russia did to ukraine as opposed to trying to force ukraine into surrender or submission? do you see that we had, all or my completely off base that the russians knowing that these images would be broadcast of the world would shock and strike or in the west? >> >> on april 1st, the russian forces were still talking about gaining the food hold and staying in that region. so i think they were trading came by surprise, and maybe they weren't prepared with this concealment of those bodies. they're certainly trying to deny those atrocities, even happened, or trying to blame the ukrainians for them, the same way the russian state media has been claiming that ukrainians are bombing themselves, they've also claim that the ukrainians are responsible for those atrocities, if they're even

real. they're also alleging that that might be all done with crisis actors, and staged for the the western media. so i don't think that they wanted those images getting out at all, but they're definitely trying to spin it as a total fabrication. and in their state media, they're arguing for the complete destruction of the ukrainian nationality, and ukraine, as a country. so i think the atrocities were permitted by their commanding officers, and like julia said, it's nothing new. that's what russia did in syria, in chechnya, and that's unfortunately with are known for. >> all right, julia davis, julia ioffe, thank you both of you. greatly appreciated your insights and analysis this evening. thanks for joining us. still ahead, i'm gonna speak to congressman tom malinowski about his legislation that would allow the u.s. to seize russian megayachts. and then, use that money, and by sending it to ukrainians. ding it to ukrainians. (customer) [reading] save yourself?! money with farmers?

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taking a robin hood like approach to the russian invasion of ukraine. democratic congressman tom malinowski and republican johnson have introduced legislation and that would allow the u.s. government to confiscate the assets of putin and his cronies, including luxury villas, yachts, airplanes, and then we direct those funds to the ukrainian people in the form of either military aid or perhaps humanitarian assistance. joining me now is congressman tom malinowski of new jersey. congressman, it's great to see you again. thanks for coming back on this show. you are in poland, which has received those number of ukrainian refugees by far. tell me elaborate about how important this is for you. >> you know, i look at these people, and they remind me of my own family. the stories that my family told me about hiding from germans and nazis in world war ii.

and, you know, we are seeing scenes that we thought at least in europe have vanished forever. and obviously, they were not. so, now we've got to do something about it. and i'm proud that my country is helping the ukrainians fight this fight. and i think ultimately, when this fight. but i'm also thinking about what happens after the fighting is over? hopefully, the russians are driven out of ukraine. we're gonna have some choices to make about the sanctions that we've imposed, and what to do with the assets of the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars of russian assets that we have frozen. and i'm just asking the simple question, can you imagine, after all the harm that has been done, that we would send rushes wealth back to putin? just for a cease-fire! i can't imagine that. not for ukraine laying in

ruins. >> you bring up a very good point, because he proposed legislation would actually seize russian assets valued over $5 million, and then we direct the funds to 80 ukrainian people. tell me more about how that would work, and how it could turn putin's assets against him? are you concerned at all that it may face legal challenges here in the united states by those olive barks? >> well, it isn't legal now. that's what's were trying to make it illegal by by passing this bipartisan bill. we'll have to vote on it and the foreign affairs committee in the house this week. there is a bipartisan version of this bill that's gonna be introduced to the senate as well. under current law, and i think a lot of folks don't understand this, under current law, we can block, we can freeze these assets. but we can't actually seize them, and i think under these extraordinary circumstances, this is appropriate measure, and would bring some measure of

justice. it would also be valuable, 600 million dollar yacht can pay for rebuilding a lot of shattered apartment buildings, schools and hospitals in ukraine. we're gonna need those resources. and again, i can't imagine anybody, at this point, being comfortable with just returning this immense wealth to putin. and remember, it belongs to him, not to the oligarchs, in the real sense. we're turning that wealth to putin, while ukraine is in smoldering ruins. >> yeah, people have made the point that he has given them that well, so technically, at least, people would say that they are beholden to him, and their assets are beholden to putin. i know that, congressman, fear is rising in russia, that brutal oppression on the rise of another potential iron curtain. it could lead to a brain drain from that country, obviously, people are risking their lives to oppose vladimir putin.

nearly a quarter of russians may have already fled their country by some estimates. you have been encouraging the biden administration to actually accept these russian refugees, which you called the best and brightest people in russia. you believe it is in our own national interest to quote, make putin's loss our gain. is that another way the u.s. could turn putin's assets against him, and are you getting some traction on that? do you believe the administration and others in congress would welcome the idea of having these russians leaving their country, come to the u.s.? >> i believe so, yes. we have to take care of the ukrainian refugees, first. but most of the ukrainians who are fleeing their country right now are women and children whose male relatives are still home fighting in ukraine. most of them want to go back. and our policy is designed to help them go back, by helping the ukrainian military win this fight. with tens of thousands of russians who are fleeing putin's totalitarianism, people

like that school teacher, that we heard julia ioffe mention, people who are telling the truth, who are resisting, and just cannot imagine living in this totalitarian dystopia for the next ten or 20 years. these are folks who are looking for resettlement somewhere, permanently. and their teachers, their scientists, their computer programmers, they are inventors, they are entrepreneurs. these are people who we would be lucky to have them in the united states, just as we were lucky to have refugees from communism and nazism in the 20th century. these would be folks who will do great things for america, help us become stronger and face competition with china over the next 50 years. so i do think that we should make that effort by speaking to the administration about making an effort to try to encourage to resettle them in the united states. >> all right, congressman tom

malinowski, thank you so much for joining us. greatly appreciate your time this evening. coming up, how many applicants does it take to make judge jackson's confirmation bipartisan? i'm gonna share my thoughts on that. that trelegy for copd. [coughing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ no once-daily copd medicine... has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain,

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me, you are bombarded with news alerts wednesday morning that read something like this. republican senator susan collins says that she'll back judge ketanji brown jackson's nomination to the supreme court. and of course, that is great news. judge jackson is extremely qualified to sit on the bench, and a majority of americans agree, i don't have to tell you that. but is it actually breaking news that a republican would actually back her nomination? don't get me wrong, bipartisanship is great, and should be welcomed and encouraged, especially when the senate judiciary committee appears to be heading towards a deadlock that 11:11 vote on

judge jackson's nomination, forcing majority leader schumer to use a procedural maneuver, just to bring her nomination to the full set it for a vote. but we can hardly call one republican voting with democrats bipartisanship. i mean, just look back to 1994, justice stephen breyer, who seat jackson will actually be taking, was confirmed by a whopping 87 votes to nine. nearly 80% of senate republicans supported his nomination. now, can you imagine that kind of bipartisanship nowadays? i don't think even oprah could garner that level of support in today's senate. so it might not be surprising that judge jackson doesn't have more publican support. but just because we're not surprised doesn't mean that we still shouldn't be disappointed. i mean, do you think that dozens of republican senators really wanted bill clinton picking a supreme court nominee back in 1994? no, of course not! but they supported justice by his nomination because he was

qualified, and he deserved that spot. and let me tell you something else. judge jackson deserves her spot as well. and we shouldn't give republicans credit for being bipartisanship, with only a single member of the gop could put aside political get gamesmanship for one minute to support her nomination. pport her nomination [limu emu squawks] woo! new personal record, limu! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ i started screening for colon cancer because of my late husband jay. i wish he could have seen our daughter ellie get married, on the best day of her life. but colon cancer took him from us, like it's taken so many others. that's why i've made it my mission to talk about getting screened and ask people to share their reasons why. i screen for my growing family. being with them means everything to me. i screen for my girls. they're always surprising me. i screen for my son. i'm his biggest fan.

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liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for whatchya... line? need. liberty biberty— cut. liberty... are we married to mutual? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> one or two senate republicans appointing ketanji brown jackson confirmation should hardly count as

bipartisanship, or even political risk taking. it's been clear about that. especially when a poll out this week shows that two thirds of americans support her confirmation. joining me now is columnist and associate editor at the boston global, and executive director at the advancement project national office, judith browne dianis. it's great to have you with us. i want to start with you, renée, if i may. the majority of americans, of the majority of americans actually approve of jackson's nomination, why does it hurt republicans to oppose her? >> that's a very good question. but i think it's obvious. republicans, everything they have done and they did during the hearings was about playing to their base. even though they have said time and time again that she is qualified to be on the supreme court, no less than mitch mcconnell has said that. then they said her credentials were impeccable. but it's playing to the base. and i think what's important is yes, the biden administration

wants to be able to say, you know, this was a bipartisan vote. even if that only means they were able to sign off one republican from the gop -- what they should really be stressing is that they were not be able to get out of their own way long enough, disappointing is there a confirmation of this deserving and highly qualified woman. that's what should stick to them. not that they were somehow, that they would get off, they're allowed off the hook with bipartisanship, because one senator decides to confirm judge jackson. >> yeah, i mean, clown cars is probably the best way to describe it. judith, so far, you had senator susan collins, two renee's point, the only republican who officially said to confirm jackson. are you surprised that folks like mitt romney and lisa murkowski have also been touted like these moderate conservatives having offered their support yet? i mean, we saw senator getting a bit of a word salad, saying

that this would be a high moment or a high point for our country to have a black supreme court woman justice? but at the same time, he's not a supporter. >> yeah, it's disappointing that, especially that the two of them would not get on board. and supporter. but as renee said, this is not surprising, right? this is about midterms in 2024. they have talked about critical race theory. they have made her soft on crime. they have been playing to the qanon crowd about these issues around whether or not she was soft on child pornography, prosecutions. so this isn't about whether or not she's qualified to them. this is about digging to play to this place. they don't care how crazy it is, and they don't care if they are standing in the door, and making sure that progress does not happen in this country. and i'm glad that the polls are

showing something different. that americans see that this woman, judge jackson, is qualified, should be on the court, and that they should move forward. and i'm hoping that people will start to see what this is really about, and that republicans have decided they're going all in on partisanship, and not thinking about what is best for the country. >> judith, let me follow up on that for a moment. bloomberg called justice stephen breyer bipartisan confirmation 87 to 9, back then when it happened, they called it a relic of the past. it certainly seems that i can't think of any way we can get that kind of bipartisanship today. what do you think would have to change in american politics for us to see that kind of bipartisan confirmation like justice breyer got? >> well, i mean, that's half a weeklong series on that, right? because there's so much that we're gonna have to change. we are such a divided country.

you know, this country continues to use race as one of the issues, the economy. and now, we have this information that is entered into the scene. where we're seeing people take sides based on baseless information that they're getting off of websites. and so, the qanon crowd, there is no way they're coming back. they're in ufo land. so [laughs] let's have a series of conversations on this one. i don't think i have an immediate answer to that. >> yeah, i was gonna say it, unfortunately we don't have more than a couple of minutes left to try to tackle some of these issues. renee, i do and ask about something as this week that i opened the show with with my colleague maggie hassan. according to the new york times, president biden that donald trump should be prosecuted. he wants attorney general merrick garland to act less

like a quote, ponderous judge, and more like a prosecutor was willing to take decisive action. what is, from your opinion, stopping garland from taking that decisive action? and will this new reporting, perhaps, notch him a little bit? >> you know, if the evidence that keeps coming out about january six and the conspiracists is in nudging him, i'm not sure what well at this point. you know, president biden is right. what is merrick garland waiting for? this is his job. he is the attorney general. and there's just a sense that there's all this motion happening around him, and he's not getting the urgency of the moment. you know, i understand that he doesn't want to look politicized, but this isn't about a politicized issue. this is about democracy. this is about the foundations on which this country is built. and it is his job to go after the people who try to overturn a fair and legal election. and there is no indication, unless he's really doing it on

the slime, we're just not -- that he's actually doing that. and that will be a tragedy. if he does not do what he, what does powers will allow him to do. >> yeah, he might be the last chance of this country holding donald trump accountable, because if republicans take control of congress and shut down the january six investigation, we may never actually get to the bottom of who was behind it, despite all the evidence that has already emerged. renee graham, judith browne dianis, that you so much, ladies, for joining us tonight. greatly appreciate your insights and analysis. thank you at home for making time for us. you can catch ayman every friday on peacock at seven eastern. you can catch me back here on msnbc, saturdays at eight, sundays at nine. make sure to follow us on twitter and tiktok at, ayman msnbc. and until we meet again, ayman mohyeldin, have a good night. good night [limu emu squawks] woo! new personal record, limu! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪

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