good to be with you. i am katy tur. it's day 40 of russia's war in ukraine. with each passing hour we get more images and firsthand accounts of what happened inside the kyiv suburb of bucha. here was president biden this

morning. >> this guy is brutal and what is happening in bucha is outrageous. >> president biden said the u.s. is considering more sanctions and some in the western alliance are asking for a total ban on russian energy and others argue it would be hurting europe more than russia. and president zelenskyy said none of that would help anyway, and he believes as many as 300 people were killed in bucha. here's what the ukrainians found after the russia retreated, and these images are graphic, and a dead man with his hands bound behind his back, and a woman still clutching her car keys. people who survived described russian soldiers indiscriminately shooting civilians.

>> translator: those people were just walking and shot down without any reason. in the next neighborhood, it was worse. they would shoot without asking any questions. >> translator: he went to get food with all of a sudden the russians started shooting. he fell down and the shooter shouted, don't scream or i will shoot and they turned away. then they shot his left leg off completely and then shot him all over the chest. >> more video shows a mass grave lined with bodies wrapped in blast plastic. the 45-foot long trench cuts across the ground near a church. evidence of intense fighting is all across bucha including burned out cars and destroyed buildings. humanitarian aids was able to get there once the russian

forces left. and russia claims all of what you just saw was staged or faked. and the u.n. is calling for a meeting for what it calls a provocation of radicals. they will attempt to suspend russia from the u.n. human rights council. they called russia's participation, quote, a farce. joining me now from lviv in ukraine, nbc foreign correspondent, ali. i know president zelenskyy is calling this genocide. president biden did not go that far. is an independent verifying committee or workers -- are people going to go in and try to just back up what zelenskyy said and go in and make a determination? >> reporter: hi, katy. even before the atrocities of

bucha came to light, there was a panel of people with a wealth of experts in these sorts of atrocities, and that had already been in place. the icc has appointed a body to investigate what is going on in ukraine, and just yesterday the head of the u.n. is appointing an independent panel to specifically investigate what happened in bucha. the head of the human rights in the u.n. said it's imperative that all the evidence be preserved and very well kept so they can prosecute people who possibly committed war crimes in that city. that is definitely in motion to bring in an independent body, send them in there to look at the evidence and see what has happened there. that will probably happen as soon as it's safe to get in there. as far as what has happened in

bucha and what is happening in the surrounding areas of kyiv, they say they are in total control of all of the suburbs around kyiv after weeks of heavy fighting. they forced the russians into a very fast retreat out of there and they now dispersed so they are in full control and that's why we are seeing the horrifying scenes in bucha that unfolded over the weekend, as you explained, dead people sprawled in the middle of the road and many of them tied with their hands tied behind their back and some shot execution style. women and children tortured and killed. there was an account we heard from a young woman in bucha who had been separated from her husband by the russians. she had not seen him for 13 days. when they left she was able to go into a basement and let's listen to her very tragic account of what see saw.

>> translator: when i came down i recognized him by his shoes, his trousers. his face was mutilated and his body was cold. they turned him over a little. my neighbor still has a picture of his face. he had been shot in the head, mutilated, tortured. i went to the red cross and asked them what should i do. he was buried so dogs wouldn't get him. that was it. >> reporter: it's a very difficult account to listen to, to what somebody has to go through and the way they find their loved ones and how they have to bury them to avoid them from being eaten by stray dogs and that sort of thing. this is the tip of the iceberg, and we had access to bucha and

journalists have had access, and the fear is more and more of these horrifying stories will come to light and we will see more war crimes like this in other places, possibly in mariupol, and nobody has been able to get in there so these are just some of the accounts and there will be a lot more, i am afraid to say. >> it's when language starts to fail us. there are not adequate words what people are seeing and feeling and sadly it doesn't feel like this cuts it and it's hard to describe an atrocity. thank you very much. joining us, he saw what we are showing you with his own eyes. i went through your twitter and some of the images -- i mean, this sort of stuff i wish i never had seen. tell me what you saw -- i am

seeing it through a filter, but tell me what you saw in person. >> yeah, in bucha showed to the world he's a butcher, a real butcher and his army. it's like your correspondent told that in other places will be found much worse thing. i can tell you what i saw, it's a hell. russians are shooting at the cars and bodies are still there in the cars only in the cars for one month already. many of them burned down. i saw -- sorry to say these sorts of things, but you asked what i saw personally. i saw women's body naked and their clothes were near the road so we can imagine what happened there. then the russian soldiers tried to burn the bodies. they put them on the tires and tried to burn it. partly they burned, partly not.

that's what i saw by my own otherwise. -- eyes. i saw a child maybe seven years old, and it's so hard, i have two kids. it's so hard to see, i can't explain to you. now you are showing the video where i saw the mass grave, the common grave with nearly 20 bodies in plastic bags near the church, and we know there are more roadside graves but they are closed but this one was open, and that is absolutely awful. that's a real genocide because all of the people that i saw personally, they were civilians, absolutely civilians, no military people, women, children, civilians, and they were killed because of this flag, the ukrainian flag.

just because they were ukrainians and they believed in ukraine. that's all. that was the whole reason. so that is a genocide. that is war crime. putin and all his army and surroundings, all this monsters, they should be accountable for this and should pay for this. >> you talk about kids and i have a hard time keeping it together. what do you want the west to do about it? they are talking about sanctions, potentially banning all russian energy across europe and across nato. there are some people or some countries that are saying it would hurt us more than it hurts russia, france and germany. do you want to see more sanctions or do you want to see something else? >> i want to see russian is disconnected from the civilized world. every country that continues to buy russian oil and gas in every

gallon of russian oil there's ukrainian blood. for every cubic meter there's the blood of ukrainian children. they are funding these awful murders, these barbaric things. when they say it would hurt their economy, if you have values, if something is important for you, like human dignity, i don't know how you can work with such a criminal regime, putin's regime, and they are the nazis, and they could be called the mariupol criminal, and the second thing i want to see is i want the west to help fight this evil. we don't ask for your soldiers

or pilots, just give us weapons to stop it. we will do everything ourselves and provide us with aircraft and we will stop them like we have on the ground. we won the battle for kyiv and nobody believed we could. it was said in the beginning we would have only four days and ukraine would fail, but we have not failed and we will not fail, but we need weapons to fight against this evil to stop it and we are fighting not only for ourselves but for the whole free world and for humanity and our common goal and common values. >> thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> thank you for bearing witness to what has happened there. i know that's tough. appreciate it. joining me now is retired u.s. army global fellow with the

wilson center. thank you for being with us. russia is calling on an emergency u.n. meeting and the u.s. is talking about kicking them out of the u.n. human rights council. russia has veto power and is a permanent member of the u.n. what is the point of the u.n.? >> first of all, i believe anything the russians are trying to do in an international form is all a smoke screen. the united nations, i worry, as far as being able to provide muscular, if you will, peacekeeping or intervention as occurred, if you remember with the police act that occurred in 1950 that that was a united nations move to korea that brought international forces, and that seems to be gone.

we are almost in a league of nations moment like in the 19 late '30s when hitler was leading, and so the u.n. on a macro scale has no teeth especially when you have a rogue member, a rogue nation like the russian federation sitting on the security council with a veto nation and another nation that is playing it multiple ways and the people's republic of china who may not be all in is abstaining on everything. yes, that's what happened in 1995 after that massacre, it took independent nations, including nato, to do an intervention like the -- again, like the -- and the u.n. was supportive up until then and it

doesn't have the muscle anymore to do it. we have to figure out a way. that's a great question, katy. >> let's talk about genocide. zelenskyy is calling it genocide and president biden did not go as far but said it is pretty clear there are war crimes. what does the president need to see to define it as the ukrainian president is? >> first of all, this is a -- this is a -- this is just awful war crimes that are going on at the highest level. violates every charge of the geneva convention and the international tribunal at the hague. genocide is a hard definition but there is a prospect and it's not just ethnic and religion, it's also people and nations subjugating or eliminating that, and that was something that vladimir putin himself in the summer basically laid out a

speech that ukraine wasn't a real nation and didn't deserve to exist as a real nation and needed to be propped up under the russian federation. the definitions are murky, but these are high-level war crimes and there's plenty of proof on that and we're just going to have to see how the definitions play out in international courts. >> general, thank you very much for being with us on this very difficult day. for the first time the u.s. governor seized a mega yacht from a russian oligarch with close ties to vladimir putin. the u.s. government took possession of a 254 foot yacht. associated press reporter saw the u.s. agents and guard at the

port in spain. tango is valued at roughly 90 million. still ahead, we speak with ukrainian refugees in poland and why some believe it could be safe enough to go back home to ukraine. and the first votes for ketanji brown jackson is today, and what happens if the outcome in the committee is split 50/50? then hertz is to blame for him getting cuffed out of nowhere inside a 7-eleven. kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew.

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they even suggested that judge jackson, a mother to two wonderful daughters, quote, endangers children. >> if ketanji brown jackson is confirmed i believe she would be the most extreme ever to serve on the united states supreme court. >> jackson has nothing to do with critical race theory despite a number of engaging posters. >> you will twist and ignore the law to reach any result that she wants. >> the senate judiciary committee is expected to vote on ketanji brown jackson's historic nomination to the supreme court. for hours, as you just saw, members of the committee have been explaining why they will or

will not vote to advance jackson's nomination. at some point this evening they will stop the speeches and hold a vote which is expected to be tied right along party lines, but it could get complicated by a delayed flight. joining me now is georgetown law professor and msnbc legal analyst, paul butler, and the host of the podcast, al franken. senator padilla is on his way back and his flight was delayed and he should return at 4:00 p.m. i do want to ask, paul, about some of the arguments from republicans on sentencing. they are trying to go after her saying she's light on child sex offenders, and she's easy on terrorists. explain. >> katy, you are asking me to make this make sense when it

doesn't? most republicans are voting against judge jackson claiming she's soft on crime or they have questions about her judicial philosophy. the reality is judge jackson's decisions are squarely in the mainstream. that's not surprising for somebody who has a bunch of police officers in her family and who has been endorsed by the fraternal order of police. her judicial philosophy is in line for justice steven breyer who she clerked for and who she will replace if confirmed. >> senator, if it's tied, it's expected to be tied, and it can get out of the committee just to go through some of the boring logistics. we have already seen a number of republican senators say they are not going to vote for her, and one that is interesting everybody is senator lindsey graham that voted for her to be

an appellant judge in d.c., and it's a very prestigious court, and he is saying new information has come to light and she was an evasive witness. what do you make of the turn around from senator graham? >> well, lindsey is not always totally sincere. this is bologna. he -- you know, he wanted his choice, a south carolina judge who he guarantees should have been 60, which he couldn't guarantee, of course, and lindsey should know the president nominates the praerpl court justices. lindsey ran for president and he lost. biden ran for president and he won. judge jackson is eminently qualified.

lindsey voted for sotomayor and kagan, and she's exactly in the mainstream. there's no reason for him not to vote for her, but he's just -- the republican party is broken as far as i am concerned. >> let me ask you about the process in general. it seems like where we are going or where we are headed it's going to be a party line vote -- or a lot of a party line because congress just feels more divided than ever. how do we move past that? is it possible to? >> yeah, are you asking me? >> yeah. >> well, i hope so but i don't see a lot of hope. i think this is showing the importance of the midterms. if another vacancy comes open and biden gets a chance to nominate somebody else, we need

to have the majority like we do now. so this just -- you are going to see in june, you are going to see heller expanded, and you are going to roe gone and the epa crippled. there is mistakes here that are enormous. people really need to see how important it is for us to keep the senate in the mid-term and actually build on our majority. >> do you think that the overturning of roe and that sort of stuff, do you think that will result in more people coming out to the polls and voting for democrats? people maybe being awakened out of ma lays. >> two-thirds of americans

support roe in some way or another. on heller, guns, they are not going to agree with this on the epa or the warming. they will not agree with this. the stakes are enormously high. they were complaining about thomas and cavanaugh, and what about garland? didn't bring up garland enough. we need to add another justice. i don't know where we are with clarence thomas and what we are going to find out about what he knew in terms of his wife's role. you know, at a certain point if you are not recusing yourself on something you know about like that, that's pretty bad. >> paul, a quick question to you. do you think the other justices are talking to clarence thomas about his wife and about

recusing himself from matters relating to january 6th? >> i am certain the chief justice is because he knows that thomas' failure to recuse himself violates judicial cannons that are not technically bound by the supreme court justices but any lower court federal judicial after would be required to recuse himself. the chief justice knows justice thomas and ginni thomas antics don't just harm them and their legacy, but they tarnish the legitimacy of the supreme court. it's the court's reputation that is that at stake now. but at the end of the day, the justices police themselves. that doesn't work any better for the supreme court than it does other institutions like police departments. they really need regulations that they are bound on follow that prevents the perception of

conflicts of interest. those perceptions are real. justice thomas must step aside. the problem, katy, if he doesn't he faces no consequences short of impeachment and that's not likely to happen from the senate. >> paul butler, good to see you. good to see you, too, al franken. appreciate it. what sacramento police are saying today about who they are looking for in the mass shooting. he was handcuffed in a gas station. a former federal law enforcement officer said he was humiliating and terrified and that it's all hertz' fault. he joins me next. ♪ ♪ nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people have their money just sitting around doing nothing... that's bad, they shouldn't do that. they're getting crushed by inflation. well, i feel for them. they're taking financial advice from memes.

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being detained. you understand? >> yes. >> i ran the tag and it's showing that it's stolen. if that's not the case we will talk about that, okay? you will get out of those handcuffs. you are in possession of a stolen car. are you clear on that? that car is stolen and it's reported as stolen. i am trying to make a good faith effort to determine if you had lawful cause to possess that car. >> that is video of a former undercover law enforcement officer being detained by police at a gas station in oklahoma. he's one of hundreds of people who say they were wrongly stopped or arrested by police for stealing cars they rented from the rental company hertz. senators richard blumenthal and elizabeth warren is calling for an investigation into hertz' practices.

we have talked to a view of the people, and we will talk to another one today. joining me now is attorney francis malafi, and his client john doe. john doe, he formerly worked as an undercover agent and requested we do not use his real name for safety. you were remarkably calm in that video. i would not sure how i would react if police officers put me under arrest inside a 7-eleven. talk to me about the experience and why you say you were humiliated and terrified? >> first of all, thank you for having me and listening to my story. yes, for any citizen to be taken out in handcuffs, especially if you have not committed a crime

or done anything wrong, and you think you are doing what you are supposed to do, and here i was conducting business on my leisure time with a rental car, and i was clearly arrested and i was not free to go anywhere. my freedom was being restrained to not leave. police officers were there and questioning was being done and i was legally under arrest, yes. >> how long did it last? why do you blame hertz? >> well, i was -- i was detained for approximately an hour. what happened is i rented a car from hertz in oklahoma city on the 9th of may of 2021, and i was conducting business and apparently hertz reported this car as being stolen in the national criminal information system dispatched to law enforcement, and for some reason

the car was not stolen and was returned and back in the possession of hertz, and i had it and rented it legally, and i end up being the victim of an arrest, falsely being arrested because of hertz' negligence. >> we did reach out to hertz and i will read their statement. it's important to know that hertz did not accuse or report john dough rental car as being stolen. and then hertz' records indicated this information was communicated to law enforcement. when mr. john doe was pulled over that was a legitimate record. what is your response to hertz, john? >> obviously that wasn't -- that's not a fully accurate

statement. hertz entered the report as a vehicle being stolen and they also had an obligation to fulfill and make sure that reported vehicle or stolen tag or whatever it was was removed. it's not up to the oklahoma city police officers who were arresting me to determine if they should be taking that off or not. and the officers never arrested me on a false charge of a vehicle being stolen. that vehicle should have been cleared before it was rented to me. >> an apology years later is too little too late. hertz knows they have broken computer systems and they don't clear the inventory and they are too lazy at the local level and they are putting men and women in uniform at odds with the community. they are too cheap to fix their

broken system. when you have senators coming in to tell you you did a bad job after customers, thousands have told them you made a mistake and arrested me falsely, and they don't listen to customers or attorneys or courts. perhaps now that u.s. senators and congress is jumping in, they will pay a little more attention to what they should be doing because what they got was a big "f" on their report card and need to understand what they are doing is damaging and destroying lives in the criminal justice system. these boilerplate answers are too little too late. the thank you was he never told him to file a claim in that bankruptcy to preserve his

constitutional rights. i am glad congress is coming to support him. the next will be the nongovernmental entities, the naacp and also the urban league i am sure will come to follow next. >> you have 263 clients in a class action. you say to us you expect that number to be around 300 by the end of the month. thank you for joining us. john doe, thank you for telling us about your experience and sharing that video of your arrest with us. here's a look at the other top stories we are following right now. the gunman behind a mass shooting in downtown sacramento, the gunmen, multiple, are still at large. six were killed and 12 others injured after shots rang out following a large fight near the state capitol sunday morning. the city's mayor called the shooting a senseless and unacceptable tragedy. covid hospitalizations in

the u.s. are at their lowest levels since the tracking began. meanwhile oversees in the uk covid cases reached new record highs with an estimated 1 in 13 people infected with the virus in the last week alone. former president barack obama will return to the white house tomorrow for the first time since he left it. he will be there to promote the affordable care act in an event alongside joe biden who helped him pass that all those years ago. and meanwhile, former trump has endorsed sarah palin's run for congress. she will seek her state's sole house seat. still ahead, jake sullivan is expected to appear at the white house briefing room in a few minutes alongside jen psaki. when that starts, we will go there. first up, though, why some refugees feel like they can go

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since the start of the war more than 4 million ukrainians fled the country and now some are deciding it's time to head back home. nbc's sasha burns are with the refugees. >> with suitcases behind them and children in tow, the scene at the border crossing now looks

familiar, and only they are not fleeing the war, they are returning to it. home, we want to go home, she tells me. we want our homes. we want our soil. at the start of the war, the traffic on the path was one way, and by march 200,000 a day were fleeing ukraine, and on saturday it was just 37,000. and as word of the russia's military campaign is moving east, some are deciding it's time to go back home. >> the people walking past me this way, they are heading back to ukraine. yesterday in the lviv region, more people returned than left. more than 30,000 returned on saturday. wives missing husbands. parents missing children, and children, like 8-year-old veronica, missing mom. i will hug my mom, she tells me. i will say, mom, i have been

missing you so much. i am incomplete without you and i don't want to be apart. her brother is 13, and both their mom and dad are in the military. this is scary and tough, he says, that you can be shot and the village can be bombed again. it's so, so scary, i miss them a lot. i miss my parents. and then we found people waiting for trains and lining at the border by car. she is from kyiv. >> the heart is in ukraine and that's why we want to go home. >> reporter: are they worried for their safety? of course. but the love of country and family is calling them home. right now the phone indicated a threat, she says, but we are going anyway. tomorrow we might flee again but for today we are going home. >> home, home, home. that was nbc's darsha burns reporting. joining me now is president and ceo of the lutheran refugee

service and previously served as policy director for michelle obama. 37,000 going over the borders, greatly diminished from what we are seeing. now some are going back. >> it's disheartening to hear the outflow declined, and still with 4 million refugees it's daunting and we expected many would want to return both because they left spouses or, you know, parents, older parents behind. we knew that many of them hoped that when there was some normalcy -- it's a little surprising it's as soon as this weekend but i think it's heartening. it helps because we know countries like poland and romania are feeling the burden. we have heard from mayors that said we are at capacity, so it's

important that we are seeing this change in dynamic. >> some intense bravery, though, especially with all of the reporting we are seeing around bucha like we talked about at the beginning of the show. there are ukrainians illegally crossing the united states border and seeking asylum. why are we seeing people cross the border instead when we said we are taking 100,000 refugees? >> it's because there's no pathway. there are thousands of ukrainian americans we speak to on a daily basis. we resettled a quarter of the ukrainian refugees that have come in the last decade and they have been desperate to getting their family out and here to the protection here on u.s. soil, and there are no pathways and there are more than 1,200 who are at our southern borders

because right now that's the only immediate way to get into the u.s. >> there are some that have said that there's a double standard at the southern border right now after title 42 was lifted, which was the rule that said nobody could come over and seek asylum because of covid, and the ukrainians that are crossing are getting preferential treatment as opposed to the latin americans or mexicans crossing over. >> title 42 needed to end. it was a purported public health rule that was never justified by science, and that's true whether it was applied to ukrainians or haitians. public health officials always said it was not protecting americans, so disguise a political decision as a public health rule was to dress a wolf in sheep's clothing. >> is there a double standard,

though? >> there has been. border officials have been given memos indicating ukrainians should be allowed, and there's a list on ukrainian refugees who are being exempted, and there are parents, to save their own . it is concerning. but just as we had worried when we saw this at the polish border, this is happening at our own. unfortunately, it's not new because we have seen this for years. but obviously when these are life-or-death decisions, we can't allow to racism or politics to factor in. >> thank you very much for joining us. up next, florida's new culture war. why governor ron desantis is now threatening the happiest place on earth. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c.

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there is new fallout today over the florida law banning talk of gender and sexual identity in schools. republican governor ron desantis, gender identity, i should say. governor ron desantis is now in a feud with disney over the "don't say gay" law. desantis is threatening disney, the state's largest employer and major driver of tourism over its op opposition. kerry sandal -- sanders is outside disney world with more. >> reporter: florida governor ron desantis is not backing down. this morning the so-called happiest place on earth plunging into the middle of a culture war. florida's republican governor, ron desantis, targeting disney,

the state's largest single site employer. >> the mayor treated on a pedestal this one corporation is treated differently than everybody else. now, in the legislature, you see a movement to re-evaluate those special privileges. >> reporter: the governor, angry at disney's opposition to the state's controversial new parental rights and education legislation, also known as the "don't say gay" law. it bans classroom discussion on sexual orientation and gender identity from kindergarten through third grade. in a statement, disney says our goal as a company is for this law to be repealed in the legislature or struck down in the courts. it's all amid the backdrop of cultural and political battles over the law and issues of representation, which conservatives hope to make a central issue in the midterm election. desantis fund-raising off the fight. matt gaetz saying i'll tell you how to trap this row denting and

commentators taking aim. >> why not rename the roller coaster sex mountain. >> reporter: disney's special status established by a 1967 law, created a new self-governing district around the 43 square miles encompassing disney world, an area twice the size of manhattan. as a result, disney effectively has its own security force and building, zoning and fire departments. this dispute comes after protests and a walk-out by some disney cast members when the company did little to oppose a bill before it was signed. disney's ceo apologizing to employees last month in a letter, writing you needed me to be a stronger ally in the fight for equal rights, and i let you down. as for the escalating feud, maryland's republican governor criticizing desantis, calling it a crazy fight. >> we have a thing called freedom of speech. >> reporter: a florida state rep here says that they have already

held meetings to discuss taking away that special status for disney, but the florida legislature would need to be in session. right now it is not. florida typically has a 60-day session and then if they take up any other legislation, they have to call what's known as a special session. >> kerry sanders in orlando. that's going to do it for me today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage, next. hallie jackson picks up our coverage, next

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so a lot is happening as we come on the air this monday afternoon. you're looking at all of it on one side of your screen. any minute at the white house we expect to hear from press secretary jen psaki and the national security advisor, jake sullivan, with president biden today calling russian president vladimir putin a war criminal after those reports and images from the ukrainian city of bucha, doubling down on his position. we also expect to hear