high point of my time here because it reminded me and reminded us of what was possible. but, of course, our work was not finished. republicans tried to repeal what we had done again and again and again. and they filed lawsuits that went all the way to the supreme court three times. i see don here who had to defend a couple of them. [ applause ] they tried explicitly to make it harder for people to sign up for coverage. and, let's face it, it didn't help when we first rolled out the aca, the website didn't work. that was not one of my happiest moments. so given all the noise and the controversy and the skepticism

it took a while for the american people to understand what we had done but, lo and behold, a little later than i had expected, a lot of folks including many who had initially opposed health care reform, came around. and today the aca hasn't just survived, it's pretty darn popular. and the reason is because it's done what it was supposed to do. it's made a difference. first 20 million and now 30 million people have gotten covered thanks to the aca. [ applause ] it's prevented insurance companies from denying people coverage based on a pre-existing condition, it's lowered prescription drug costs for 12 million seniors. it's allowed young people to stay on their parents' plan until they're 26.

it's eliminated lifetime limits on benefits that often put people in a jam. we are incredibly proud of that work. but the reason we're here today president biden, vice president harris, everybody who has worked on this thing understood from the start the aca wasn't perfect. to get the bill passed we had to make compromises. we didn't get everything we wanted. that wasn't a reason not to do it. if you can get millions of people health coverage and better protection, it is to quote a famous american, it is a pretty big deal. [ applause ] but there were gaps to be

filled. even today some patients still pay too much for prescriptions. some poor americans are still falling through the cracks. in some cases health care subsidies aren't where we want them to be. which means some working families are still having trouble paying for their coverage. here's the thing, that's not unusual when we make major progress in this country. entire categories were left out like farmworkers. that had to be changed. in the beginning medicare didn't provide all the benefits it does today. that had to be changed. throughout history what you see is -- and it's important to get something started, to plant a flag, to lay a foundation for further progress. the analogy i used before is in the same way that was true for

early forms of social security and medicare, it was a starter home. it secured the principle of universal health care, provided help immediately to families, but it required us to continually build on it. and make it better. and president biden understands that, and that's what he's done since the day he took office. as part of the american rescue plan he lowered the cost of health care even further for millions of people. he made signing up easier. he made outreach to those who didn't know they could get covered, make sure that they knew. made that a priority. and as a result of these actions, he helped a record 14.5 million americans get covered during the most recent enrollment period. [ applause ]

that, ladies and gentlemen, is what happens when you have an administration that's committed to making a program work. and today -- today the biden-harris administration is going even further by moving to fix a glitch in the regulations that will lower premiums for nearly 1 million people who need it and allow 200,000 more uninsured americans get access to coverage. i'm a private citizen now. but i still take more than a passing interest in the course of our democracy. but i'm outside the arena and i know how discouraged people can get with washington. democrats, republicans, independents. everybody feels frustrated sometimes about what takes place in this town.

progress feels way too slow sometimes. victories are often incomplete. and in a country as big and diverse as ours, consensus never comes easily. but what the affordable care act shows is if you are driven by the core idea that together we can improve the lives of this generation and the next, and if you're persistent, if you stay with it, you're willing to work through the obstacles and the criticism and continually improve where you fall short, you can make america better. you can have an impact on millions of lives. you can help make sure folks don't have to lose their homes when they get sick, that they don't have to worry whether a loved one is going to get the treatment they need.

president joe biden understands that. he has dedicated his life to the proposition that there's something worthy about public service and that the reason to run for office is for days like today. so i could not be more honored to be here with him as he writes the next chapter in our story of progress. i'm grateful for all the people who have been involved in continuing to make the aca everything it can be and it is now my great privilege to introduce the 46th president of the united states, joe biden. [ applause ] >> thank you. thank you, thank you, thank you.

please, thank you. thank you. thank you, thank you. please. please, thank you. thank you very much. please. my name is joe biden, i'm barack obama's vice president. and i'm jill biden's husband. the only reason jill is not here today, she's working. she's teaching. >> i hear you. >> i want you to know that's why she's not here. good evening, everyone. mr. president, welcome back to the white house, man. feels like the good old days. being here with you brings back

so many good memories. we just had lunch together and we weren't sure who is supposed to sit where. look, it's fitting that the first time you return to the white house is to celebrate a law, a law that's transformed millions of lives because of you, and i say because of you, had a lot of help, staff, and i helped a little bit, but because of you. that shows hope leads to change and you did that. you did it. let's be honest. the affordable care act has been called a lot of things but obamacare is the most fitting. obamacare. [ applause ] it's true. i know you all know how much you cared about getting this done.

through countless hours, he never ever, ever gave up. i guarantee you that. if i had time i could tell you all the times he would say should we compromise? well, we have to think about it. no, if i do that, this group of people won't get covered. whether it was after meeting during our weekly lunch, and we met every day, he would remind me why we're doing this in the first place. we're doing this in the first place for people who needed it and deserve to be treated with dignity. dignity. the idea when you can't afford health insurance for your children, for your spouse, male or female, it doesn't matter. not only are they in trouble but you're deprived of your dignity. you talked about the idea that was important that we make sure that you couldn't outrun your insurance.

i can remember with beau thinking to myself what would i do if they walked in and said you've outrun your time here? 35 days lived. the things that change people's lives, we both understood the affordable care act wasn't about a single president or the presidency. it was about the countless -- countless americans lying in bed at night staring at the ceiling wondering, my god, my god, what if i get really sick? what am i going to do? what is my family going to do? will i lose the house? discussions we had in my house with my dad when he lost his health insurance. who is going to pay for it? who is going to take care of my family? in america health care as we all three have said, health care

should be a right not a privilege. [ applause ] with the help of members of congress, especially nancy, and the advocates of families are here today. 12 years ago last month, 12 years ago we made a good effort toward that proposition. and, barack, when you signed the affordable care act into law it bake the most consequential piece of legislation since made care/medicaid in 1965. it made a difference in people's lives every day. you just talked about where we were before the affordable care act and what happened in the past 12 years to make life a lot better for people. i like to talk about where we go

from here because we knew back then as the president said, we knew we had to keep strengthening this legislation. look, that's why i ran for president and i promised to protect and build upon the affordable care act. as soon as i entered office what kamala and i did and what our administration and the democrats in congress here today, did we passed the landmark rescue plan which helped us get it under control and the economy back on track, it got millions more people insured under the affordable care act, made it easier for people to sign up for coverage in the middle of a pandemic. it opened special enrollment to people and gave millions and millions of americans more time to enroll. it quadrupled the number of navigators in the community helping people sign up. it's confusing to people.

the president has heard me say, well, biden and obama are doing great on foreign policy. you want to do something difficult, try health care. not a joke. not a joke. so we continue to expand medicaid. missouri and oklahoma became the 37th and 38th state to expand under the affordable care act. [ applause ] over 31 million people have insurance. four out of five americans can find quality coverage under $10 a month. the average family -- the average family is saving $2,400 a year on their premiums, available for other needs in

their lives. the bottom line is this, the affordable care act is stronger now than it has ever been. and today -- [ applause ] i'm not even talking about what your former chief of staff is doing to make sure health insurance is available to veterans. today we're strengthening it even further. in a moment i'm going to sign an executive order building on one of those that i signed last year. it directs federal agencies to continue doing everything in their power, everything in their power to expand quality and affordable health care coverage. making it easier for people to enroll in and keep their coverage, helping people better understand their coverage options and to pick -- be able to pick the best option for that family taking steps to

strengthen benefits, lower costs and expand eligibility, protecting americans from low-quality coverage that can lead to a mountain of medical debt. and, folks, and separately, it's time to fix what we refer to as the family glitch. now the family glitch, all everybody in this room probably knows what it is, but it's the common issue facing 5 million americans who can't get financial help to get coverage under the affordable care act. and here is the problem. under the current rules a working mom is told as long as she can afford employer based coverage herself she can't qualify for premium subsidies for her family. cover her but not her family. we're going to change that. once today's proposed rule is finalized, starting next year, working families in america will

get the help they need to afford full family coverage, everyone in the family. [ applause ] as a result families will be saving hundreds of dollars a month. with this change it's estimated 200,000 presently uninsured americans are going to gain coverage. nearly 1 million americans will see their coverage become more affordable. this is considered one of the biggest things my administration can do, lower cost and expand coverage. we're taking steps today to get that done. so look, folks, we need to keep

up the fight. our republican colleagues, as they say, haven't changed a whole hell of a lot. good folks. they haven't changed a lot. they continue to attack the affordable care act. they'reunrelenting. they haven't stopped for one second. multiple court challenges, sabotage from the previous administration. over 70 attempts to repeal the law by republicans in congress. in fact, just last month the distinguished senator from wisconsin said if republicans get back in power, they should try to repeal the affordable care act again. again try. today, 12 years later, they have not stopped their attacks on this life-saving law. so pay very close attention, folks.

if republicans have their way it means 100 million americans with pre-existing conditions can once again be denied help care coverage by their insurance companies. obamacare. in addition, tens of millions of americans could lose their coverage, including young able stay on their parents' insurance policies to age 26. premiums are going to go through the roof. well, i have a better idea. instead of destroying the affordable care act, let's keep building on it. let's extend it. extend. [ applause ] and because of all the folks in this room, members of congress, the american rescue plan subsidizes that are lowering premiums and extending coverage.

and i got a little practice when you gave me the other act when we were president -- you were president and i was with you. look, close the medicaid coverage gap that locks nearly 4 million americans out of coverage just because their states refused to expand medicaid. allowing to negotiate prices for drugs that are on the market. we can do this. we should do this. we have to do this. let me close with this. 12 years ago at a bill signing the affordable care act president obama said, quote, we're a nation that does what is hard, what is necessary, and what is right. that's exactly what he did. exactly what he did. and, folks, that's what we have to do, we do as americans. it's what all of you did here making the affordable care act

possible. i really mean it. we just have to keep it going and keep building on it. we need to keep the faith. we need to remember we're the united states of america and there's simply literally nothing beyond our capacity when we're united and do it together. god bless you all, may god protect our troops, and now i'm going to sign an executive order and, barack, let me remind you, it's a hot mic. [ applause ]

can you see, everybody? i have to admit one thing i haven't gotten down, barack obama could sign his name using nine different pens. i'm going to use one. [ applause ] >> joe biden signing the expansion of the affordable care act and doing so with former president barack obama at the white house for the first time

since he left it back in 2017. you saw at the top there president obama when he was speaking introduced vice president joe biden and caught himself and had to say my president joe biden and introduced vice president harris. joe biden, the current president, said it feels like old days there at the white house and then went on to praise barack obama for the affordable care act saying you transformed millions of lives in this country. it's because of you. and he said hope does lead to change, you did it. this is president biden trying to fix a couple holes in the bill, if you will, make it easier for all families have it be affordable. let's bring in ali vitali our correspondent in washington. what exactly is this signature

going to do? >> reporter: they're building upon the affordable care act, something president joe biden was speaking about in the east room at the white house. it is meant to fix the family glitch, for families whose health care might cost more than 10% of their income. this impacts roughly 5 million americans. they think by fixing this so-called glitch they could get 200,000 to become insured. this is one of the few things they can do without the help of congress. we heard former president barack obama speaking there about the political courage that it took to get this law into place back in 2010, how it was for many lawmakers something that they knew they could have lost their seat over. for obama himself, he thought it was worth staking his presidency on. of course the view of that law

12 years later looks a whole lot different. you and i covering the trump campaign, the frequent refrain was repeal and replace obamacare in 2016. of course most republicans now not echoing that anymore. a few maybe still. largely it has been viewed as the law of the land. hearing a story about the affordable care act but also hearing a story about build back better and the stalled legislative push out of this current white house. obama said a few things that struck me. he said we didn't get everything we wanted, but it wasn't a reason not to do it. he did mention the political courage that it took. it felt to me like as much as obama was talking about the work that was done on the aca, he was also talking to lawmakers who are currently right now still grappling with if what could end up in a revised build back better package is enough for them and what might get over the legislative finish line there. it struck me when he said we're

not supposed to just do this to occupy a seat but to make a difference in lives. so, to me, a moment looking back but also very much speaking to the legislative moment at the present. >> don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. it seems former president barack obama is trying to make his way out of the room but is obviously getting stopped by quite a few lawmakers and other people there to attend the signing. ali, just, also, the optics of this having former president barack obama in the white house at this moment, what do you make of that? >> reporter: having him in the white house at this moment, there are many staffers right now especially on the hill where i spend most of my time talking about how this feels like a foregone time for them, like it was a return to the obama/biden white house. we heard those jokes there today from both obama and biden, ending on a joke we have mentioned several times today where he said to president obama, remember this mic is hot, referencing the moment he had

when he said this was a big deal in a little bit more colorful language back when the law was first passed. there was a lot of levity there but politically speaking, too, you and i have been looking over our nbc news poll which shows this white house is in pretty bad political straits in terms of its rating but on jobs, on the economy, on cost of living and inflation. health care is one of those things that serve democrats well as a key issue in 2018 when they saw a flood of democrats, especially women, come into congress in those mid-term elections. it's a different playing field now. biden's approval rating going to have a very big impact on a lot of democrats across the country. but what we're starting to see democrats do nationally and here in washington is try to make this an election about kitchen table issues. republicans repeatedly trying to tag the democrats and the white house as the folks who are to blame for high prices at the pump although, of course, we

know that also is very much related to what's going on between russia and ukraine right now, but also for the high inflation and higher prices that americans are experiencing across the board. this event allows the white house and democrats to turn the tide back to health care, start talking about affordability and keeping prices down for americans at a critical point before the midterms. >> ali vitali at the white house, thank you very much. we're going to make a hard turn here back to our other top story. it is day 41 of russia's war in ukraine and here is what we know right now. more people including our own journalists are in bucha today seeing with their own eyes what russia has wrought. murders and mutilations, what they're calling war crimes. more from richard engel in a moment. this morning ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy again spoke to the u.n. security council. he asked the assembled nations what exactly is the point of the u.n. when a member nation can blatantly defy the very first

article in the organization's own charter? where is the security, he asked, that the security council is supposed to guarantee? >> translator: we are dealing with a state that is turning the veto into the u.n. security council into the right to die. this undermines the whole architecture of global security. it allows them to go unpunished so they're destroying everything that they can. or if there is no alternative and no option, then the next option would be dissolve yourself altogether. >> zelenskyy warned there may be more horrors like bucha yet to be revealed. russia denied all of it, though. claim the ukrainians did it themselves. faked and staged it. its ambassador claimed russia was the one saving lives, pulling civilians from mariupol. other nations were not buying it and that includes the united states.

>> some of them, according to credible reports, including by the mariupol city council, have been taken to so-called filtration camps where russian forces are reportedly making tens of thousands of ukrainians relocate to russia. i do not need to spell out what these so-called filtration camps are reminiscent of. it's chilling and we cannot look away. >> in fact, here is what our own richard engel witnessed. >> reporter: this is just one of many houses here in bucha destroyed by russian soldiers. and russian troops didn't just bomb this house. this was a house where iryna lived with her husband oleg and father. after russian troops shelled the house, the family came rushing out and they found the russian soldiers here. the russians grabbed oleg, started to talk to him, brought

him down this street and put him on his knees. iryna was coming out of the door and was able to see the russians executing her husband while he was on his knees, and there's still some of the blood here on the pavement. the body was taken away. and this family's story is typical of other families' experiences here in bucha. they say russian soldiers were going house to house carrying out executions, bodies have been found with their hands tied behind their back. because of the violence, because russian troops were patrolling, iryna wasn't able to collect his body. it stayed here for weeks. now it has been taken away by ukrainian authorities. they brought away so many bodies and are still looking for more. as russian troops pull back from areas like bucha more and more evidence of their atrocities is emerging. >> in response to what you just saw, what rich around was just describing, the execution of civilians, several european

countries, including italy, france and germany, expelled a combined 100 russian diplomats today. there is also growing talk of banning even more if not all russian energy and even more sanctions from the united states today. joining me now is nbc news foreign correspondent and correspondent andrea mitchell in brussels. we are seeing so much coming out of bucha. i know you've been speaking to people as well. what are they telling you? >> reporter: hi, katy. it's just a devastating scene in bucha. we've seen the pictures. clearly for the russians, there were no rules of engagement in bucha. they went on a rampage in that city and other towns around bucha, they executed people. they raped, murdered, tortured people and stole belongings from their houses. i don't know if you can see behind me, there was a vigil just here about an hour ago.

most of the people have gone now but there were about 200 people who came to light candles for what had happened in bucha, and i got to speak to some of them. one lady was from irpin, 10 or 15 minutes' drive from bucha. she's a schoolteacher and she was just telling me in the square she knew one of the family that had been in bucha and they spent two and a half weeks hiding in their basement -- a father, a mother and their child -- in fear of the russians. all they could hear was shooting outside. and out of fear for their lives with their 6-year-old child, they didn't come out of this dark basement for two and a half weeks and she was crying while she was telling me this story and you hear account after account from that city. let's take a listen to one account from somebody who was in bucha just now. >> translator: they took him here, and i didn't see them shoot him. we all hid during the shooting, but etches shot dead. we saw his bald head.

he was partially bald. i came closer and saw his body was burn. they didn't just shoot him. they used that weapon that sends out fire, the burned him down. >> reporter: so just to give you a little more detail on that, the man that was killed there, the russians thought he may have been military because he had some kind of army looking clothes on him. so just in case that gets lost on anyone they burned him to death with a flamethrower, that's the sort of stuff they were doing in towns like bucha and irpin and other places. so the brutality is just unspeakable. no rules of engagement, and like you were saying earlier, we'll hear a lot more of these stories and the real worry is mariupol, the foreign minister of ukraine says what you saw in bucha was just the tip of the iceberg. when we get access to mariupol, the scenes there could be calamitous. >> nobody has been able to get in there. the red cross has been trying to

get in for weeks now. they still cannot get in to mariupol. andrea, you are going to speak with secretary antony blinken exclusively tomorrow. he did address what we've been seeing out of bucha today. let me play that sound bite. >> what we've seen in bucha is not the random act of a rogue unit. it's a deliberate campaign to kill, to torture, to rape, to commit atrocities. one way or another, one day or another, there is accountability for those who committed these acts, for those who ordered them. there's a very important effort to put the evidence together, to compile it, to document it, to support the different investigations that are going on. that's what we're doing. >> president biden, antony blinken, other western nations are calling for what they call accountability, saying vladimir putin has committed war crimes, andrea.

they're talking about accountability but how exactly can they hold vladimir putin accountable? and i know they're talking about more sanctions but anything else on the table? >> reporter: they are talking about more sanctions. there are some sanctions that came down today, but there are huge loopholes because the eu banned coal but not oil and gas and it's oil and gas that's so critical. the u.s., we understand, by three sources familiar, my colleagues at the white house reporting this tonight, that there are going to be new sanctions against russian financial institutions and other state-owned enterprises and elites again tomorrow and banning investments in russia. but not secondary against india and china. it's india and china still buying all of that energy from russia and that is bailing them out of any kind of total clams of their economy. the economy has taken big hits but putin is plowing on and the sanctions are not stopping him.

that's the analysis of the joint chiefs. years for sure. this is not weeks. this is not months. ukraine needs help. that's what zelenskyy was calling for. zelenskyy was saying the security council provides no security and no peace to countries like his own where russia is the aggressor. and there's no question that it's russia that invaded without any aggression from ukraine. with russia having a veto over any action, any punishment, and there's no way under the u.n. charter that russia can be kicked off the security council as zelenskyy demanded today. showed a very graphic video. it was live during one of the hours i was anchoring and it was really, really hard to watch, do the requisite warning midday with kids at home, but it was

really unbelievable if you've seen some of the the world war ii pictures, it was like that. >> i've had to just personally turn my kids away from the tv whenever we're watching the news. it's been difficult. andrea, the talk about it lasting for years, there's already some concern about whether or not the united states, according to our own reporting whether we can sustain the supply that we are sending over to ukraine, the arms supply. is there going to be renewed talk about how to do that continuously? and i just wonder -- i know we ask about a red line, but are you hearing anything about a red line? and if it's not something like this, what could it possibly be? >> reporter: general mccaffrey pointing out this is still a

fraction of what we've been spending on our arms in iraq for all those years. 20 years in afghanistan. so there is a commitment to ukraine. there's no question this is central to the security of europe, the u.s. and the world. and it's not on our doorstep but is on nato's doorstep and that is part of the whole architecture as zelenskyy was saying since world war ii. this is the worst violence, the worst conflict and the worst war crimes in europe since world war ii. and so the u.s. has a stake in this. if it takes years, i think there's bipartisan support in congress for that right now, and i think that everyone is going to have to do some belt tightening, and it can cost people re-election or control of congress, which is quite possibly one of the outcomes given what's happening to the economy and to inflation, but i don't see any way this administration is pulling back

nor this congress. >> thank you. again, andrea, you're going to have an interview with secretary of state antony blinken tomorrow. you can watch it starting at 11:00 a.m. eastern here on msnbc. joining me now is the executive director of security programs at ukrainian prism, a ukrainian think tank, she has advised the government and military for more than ten years. also kenneth roth, executive director of human rights watch. kenneth, i know your time is limited so i want to start with you. how do you define -- i know we've been talking about war crimes. president zelenskyy is talking about genocide. what is your assessment? >> these are certainly war crimes. if you read the geneva conventions they made clear torturing prisoners, raping prisoners, executing prisoners are classic war crimes. as, i should add, bombardment to civilian areas or the besieging of civilians, the kind of thing

we're seeing in mariupol. there's no question war crimes are taking place. one of the big questions is who is responsible. certainly the people on the ground are responsible. but the international criminal court, the most likely forum to prosecute these war crimes, it's going to look up the chain of command and it will look as far up as it can go. ideally you get a written order to go do this and do that, but it's rare to get that kind of evidence. in terms of establishing so-called command responsibility, in other words the commander criminally responsible for these kinds of atrocities, you need to show they were aware of these war crimes and everybody is aware of these war crimes and, second, that they didn't take steps to stop them. now overseeing command of the kremlin is the opposite of taking steps to stop them. the kremlin is saying these are manufactured photographs, ukrainians acting.

that kind of ridiculousness. they're sending a signal don't you dare do this, russian soldiers, but if you do this, pretend it didn't happen. we'll cover up for you. that is almost an admission of the kind of culpability that would lead to respond. >> the russians are saying the ukrainians did this. we have satellite images that show there were dead bodies across streets in bucha for at least a week, probably more before russia retreated from that position. so the ukrainians wouldn't have been able to even get in there to manufacture something. it's not possible anyway but their lie about it is easily refuted with this imagery. ana, when you see russia go out and use the u.n. security council to claim the ukrainians are doing this to themselves, how do you fight against that sort of deliberate and blatant

disregard for international order and for the very body that they are a member of, the u.n. and the security council when they're going against article i of the body's charter? >> you know, it's difficult even to think which article not only of the u.n. charter but what russia did not violate. i've been studying conflicts being in many conflict zones and, honestly, i've never heard so much lie as during the ten minutes of the russian representative to the u.n. -- one hour ago. you feel sick when you are listening to this because it's not just about manufacturing of the deeds. all of his statements about ukrainians, they've been quite racist and naziist style. i've been remembering the history books and the speeches we read from those times. the same and you probably could

think that it is some excess of the executors, some crazy soldiers on the ground to doing this, but at the same time you are reading the ex-president just today published in his social network the statements about eradicating ukrainians that all ukrainians should be published, and you understand that is a state policy. that's not anymore just one mr. putin or some stupid soldier on the ground. when you understand that is state policy, understand that you need to act in the international courts with the criminal cases against individuals with the forces and ukraine needs to fight back because now we understand that we don't want the second bucha, irpin or any other towns and honestly the picture you are showing that is the softest from what i saw within the last few days from my friends among the human rights who are documenting

these atrocities. >> that's true. we are showing the least terrible images. these are the least terrible images that we have. they are images of bombed out buildings, utter destruction, and they are the least terrible images we have. a lot of the images, the majority of the images, are showing dead bodies everywhere, and we've been showing them for days. that is the reality of the war on the ground there. ken, there are sanctions, there's talk about cutting back on russian energy even further. you're talking about war crimes, investigating war crimes, holding people accountable. when the country itself doesn't subscribe to the court that would hold you accountable, i mean, what can you do? it feels almost toothless. >> actually, even though russia has not joined the international criminal court, its crimes in

ukraine are subject to the court's jurisdiction because ukraine has given the court jurisdiction. so what russia feels doesn't matter that much. how do you extricate, get those people and try them if russia is refusing to participate? >> obviously while putin is in charge, you don't. if his only strategy is to be president for life, that's not a great strategy. there have been others who tried this. you think back to former yugoslav president. he thought he was safe in belgrade. the government changed. he was no longer in power. it sent him off to the hague. similar things happened. former president al bashir charged with genocide by the international criminal court is in custody. former liberian president charles taylor was sent off to

the hague and convicted. you never know. it may be putin has his dying days in the kremlin but it may not be that. the best we can do right now is to collect the evidence, make sure these prosecutions about forward but, frankly, inform the russian people. today nationalism is making putin popular. do the russian people really want these atrocities committed in their name i hope that will put pressure on the kremlin to rein in these individuals. >> let's hope the information gets to them. it's get to go some but so many only get it from state outlets. ken and hannah, thank you for being with us today. we hope to have you back again soon. and coming up next donald trump's daughter testifies before the january 6th committee. what did she say?

ivanka trump appeared before the january 6th committee today. three sources familiar tell nbc

news it's not immediately clear what she told them, but her husband, jared kushner, gave six hours of voluntary virtual testimony last week which at least one democrat on the committee called very valuable. joining me now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent leigh ann capitol hill correspondent leigh ann caldwell. so what do we know, leigh ann? >> so katy, we think that ivanka trump is still being interviewed by committee members virtually in this building about five floors up. like you said, we don't know what she's saying yet. but we do know the committee has wanted to speak to her. she is speaking voluntarily. she was not subpoenaed. we know that because of committee reporting that she went and asked the former president to call off the violence on january 6th. she was also in a key meeting at the oval office on january 6 as well where she reportedly said that mike pence is a good man for standing up to the former president and refusing to

overturn those election results. so this is testimony that the committee has been wanting. as you said, it has come one week after her husband, jared kushner, spoke with the committee. and so the fact that they are voluntarily speaking with the committee is news within itself, and we'll see what sort of information she provides, katy. >> we will see. leigh ann caldwell. leigh ann, thank you very much. and china had been casting itself as something closer to a neutral bystander between the west and russia. but "the new york times" reports that inside china there's now a propaganda campaign under way in full support of russia and vladimir putin. a campaign that frames russia as a long-suffering victim rather than an aggressor. joining me now is ian bremer, president of the eurasia group and president and founder of g zero media. his new book "the power of crisis" comes out next month. also with me is sergei radchenko. he's a professor the the johns hopkins school of advanced international studies where he

focused on china and soviet history. gentlemen, thank you very much for being here. sergei, one thing that struck me about this video, this reeducation video that's going around to many ministers and has now been seen somewhat publicly, is that they're not just reframing what's going on with vladimir putin and ukraine right now, they're reframing the whole soviet history. they're talking about how the stalin purges maybe went too far but were ultimately necessary. >> exactly. and they provide incorrect information also about the number of victims of stalin's purges. so that -- this is just one example of lots of -- of incorrect information and falsehood that they have in this documentary. >> what's the point? >> well, the point is to spin history to your advantage, or to present falsehoods as history. i mean, you have to understand here that china is -- or the

chinese -- the communist party leadership is trying to present the west as this evil force that is trying to go after china the way they had gone after the soviet union. they're trying to change them through peaceful evolution, and the whole point is to resist that. and that is to resist the west, to resist their ideas, to resist what deng xiaoping called liberalization. >> ian, the united states had been trying to rally china to their side, to the west's side on this, and to condemn vladimir putin, and for a time it seemed they weren't really going to take much of a position. this feels like the u.s. and the west have basically lost them. am i reading that wrong? >> i wouldn't say that they've lost them. i would say they never had them. look, it's pretty clear that when president biden describes

the fight as one of democracy democracy versus autocracies around the world, it's very clear that china's not on the american side of that. so it's being framed that way. it is certainly true that as of february 4th when xi jinping and putin signed that document of friendship without any constraints at the beijing olympics, that was historically important and it does show an aligned worldview between xi jinping and putin. that when he looks at u.s. policy and he sees things like the quad and he sees an indo-pac economic framework and he sees the aucus defense pact, all of those feel like containment from the chinese perspective. and they are absolutely responding on russia's side of this conflict. but i do want to mention, katy, that chinese trade with russia since the invasion is way down. and it's down because chinese companies have lawyers and they understand that the united states has the dominant currency

and they have the ability to levy secondary sanctions and the chinese don't want their economy to get destroyed by all of this. so there is realism coming from beijing as well. >> okay. so how do the americans deal with that? because if china is embracing russia at least politically speaking and embracing the idea that russia's the victim here but they're not doing as much trade, i wonder, is it better for the u.s. to react by trying to keep some relationship with china or is it better to pull away even further? and i also wonder about our american corporations. i mean, i wonder about the nba kowtowing to china. i wonder about hollywood kowtowing to china, taking off the taiwan patch from tom cruise's jacket in the remake of "top gun," et cetera. how do you navigate those relationships with this world order that we're currently in? >> you wonder about big american networks that might cover the beijing olympics, for example. i understand. i mean, look, every company out

there has challenges because china's going to be the largest economy in the world and most of the fortune 500 is invested in that economy. the right thing for the americans to do, i understand a cold war with russia, i understand that putin is seen as a war criminal, and i think that it's the end of globalization for russia with the west. you do not want that fight with china as well. so maintaining a relationship with china, an economic relationship with china, is absolutely in america's interest. much more so, for example, than going to venezuela and seeing if you can rebuild an oil relationship with that small dictatorship. china is the country that you have to work together with in some way. >> this is a conversation that i wish i had more than six minutes for or whatever we've had today. gentlemen, thank you so much for be being here. sergey radchenko and ian bremmer. it's always good to talk to you both. appreciate it. and that's going to do it for me today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage next. icks up our coverage next. hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health.

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as we come on the air, more and more anger over what's happening in ukraine and more and more muscle from the west into even tougher responses to vladimir putin. sources telling nbc news new sweeping sanctions are coming tomorrow, hitting more russian officials and banks and banning new investment in the country. basically a coordinated global response after what the u.s. is again today calling war crimes by the kremlin in ukraine. and coming just hours after another emotional speech from president zelenskyy to the united nations, calling on the world to do something after civilians were in his words killed and tortured in the town of bucha. we expect to hear more from the white house this our on this. you know we're going to bring you any updates from that podium you're looking at as they happen. also this hour an in-depth look at what russians are seeing on their tvs and in their newspapers. how the kremlin's propaganda machine is worki