good day, everyone. this is a special edition of "andrea mitchell reports" live in brussels where the u.s. and european allies today are imposing new dramatic sanctions against vladimir putin's two adult daughters and other members of putin's inner circle. president biden is scheduled to

address the new sanctions next hour in washington. we'll bring that to you live. i sat down with secretary of state tony blinken today. more on that in a moment. today president zelenskyy told the irish parliament that 10 million ukrainians have been displaced either internally or as refugees since late february. >> translator: it means that russia hasn't yet abandoned their plans they are looking forward to subdue and occupy all the of people. we want to make sure that russia will start looking for peace and leave us alone. >> and today pope francis hold up a ukrainian flag from the devastated city of bucca.

and secretary of state blinken signing off on $100 million in more weapons for ukraine overnight. i asked him about that during our exclusive interview today and about president zelenskyy's prospects for victory. >> a protracted war is going to last years according to the chairman of the joint chiefs. will today's new commitment of javelins, anti-tank weapons to ukraine shorten that time? >> andrea, we want to see this come to an end as quickly as possible. that's exactly why we're making sure we're doing everything we can to support ukraine and give them the assistance they need to put pressure and to increase pressure on russia. between the united states and other allies and partners, for every russian tank in ukraine, we have provided or will soon provide ten anti-tank systems.

so in terms of what they need to act quickly and act effectively to deal with the planes that are firing at them from the skies, the tanks that are trying to destroy their cities from the ground, they have the tools that they need. they're going to keep getting them and we're going to keep sustaining that. >> can they live? >> so ultimately, yes. what is success? what is victory? it's holding on to the sovereignty and independence of their country. and there is no scenario by which over time that will not happen. >> our exclusive will air the next hour on "andrea mitchell reports." we'll start with secretary of state blinken telling me about the war and the aid. and joining me general barry mccaffrey, retired four-star

general and msnbc military analyst. john mccaffrey, first to you. how are these new actions, including the javelins, going to make an impact and perhaps is there any way that they would shorten the war, which general milley said yesterday to congress is going to last years? >> i think, you know, that intervening with secretary blinken, indicative. best news we have in the united states. secretary blinken and secretary auston, secretary burns, extremely experienced people who have made an incredible impact on the war in a very short period of time, unifying nato, organizing cross-border movement, military supplies, humanitarian aid. look, andrea, the way ukraine loses is for this to turn into a war of months and years where

the russians with immunity can pound ukrainian cities withstand fire. artillery, rockets, cruise missiles, that's where this is going. the challenge it seems to me is how do we infuse a quantitative edge in military technology so the ukrainians can carry the fight to the russians, the war is now in a period where the russians have acute vulnerability. this won't last much longer. some things we can't do. you couldn't train a ukrainian to fly an apache attack helicopter in less than a year or two. but an m-1 tank in five days you could equip for ukrainians to fight it. so we've got to think carefully but this is basically fairly modest support. a couple of billion dollars in a

month. at the peak in iraq, if i can remind people, we were spending $9 billion a month. we need to get going. >> general mccaffrey, let me just follow up on that. we've been told that the ukrainians are just not trained on our advanced weapon systems and our nato partners are. we're back filling by sending the weapons to our nato partners and they're sending soviet-made weapons. you're telling me an m-1 tank can be used quickly by ukrainians and we should be sending those in? >> it's just a good example. it's easier to deploy than one of our older m-160 tanks. some technology you can't do. we tried to move patriot missiles, air defense missiles into ukraine. that would be a year of training

and maintenance packages. some things we can do fairly quickly. there's 21 russian ships in the black sea and the ukrainians got to go after them. supposedly the brits are going to provide harpoon missiles. the mig-29s i don't think are a game changer but stingers, obviously the ukrainians are being pounded by standoff cruise missiles, ballistic missile, aircraft. we got to give them a qualm qualitative edge to go after that thing. we've been magnificent to moving nato toward to pose a defensive alliance that should concern putin and his generals. i fear as general milley stated, a war of years that destroys all

of ukraine. we simply cannot allow that to happen. president president biden rightfully has said we're not doing a no-fly zone because it puts us into the war but i think we have to step up our support for the ukrainian armed forces and take much more risk, defensive, offensive weapons, we got to put that behind us. >> and do you think that sanctioning putin's daughters, is that a game changer? does that get his attention? >> nothing. he doesn't care about wealth. he talks about power. he can take wealth away from these oligarchs. there's one or two that might in private conversations deal with them but the people, unfortunately, we have to influence the russian people and we're seeing these polling numbers saying they're solidly behind. i'm watching interviews with russian citizens and they're really chilling on destroying ukraine, the nazis and watching the behavior of these russian

soldiers inside ukraine casual live murdering, raping, torturing people who are like them. these are their supposedly brothers and sisters to be reintegrated back into mother russia. so this is an appalling example of what happens when defensive measures and deterrence failed. the whole package that biden put together on pariah nations, all excellent, the backdrop to eventually bringing peace. but in the short run, we'd better make sure the ukrainians not at a training level but operational level can counterattack against the russians and cause significant enough casualties to where they start fading as a military tool of offensive warfare. >> and stand by with me a

moment, general, because chief foreign correspondent richard engel has just filed this report from a town 15 miles from bucha. >> reporter: after russian forces pulled out, driven out by ukrainian troops, ukrainians are discovering more and more places that look like this, not far from kyiv, very close to the suburb of bucha, which saw terrible abuses and primarily russian air strikes devastated this town center. unfortunately what these rescue workers are doing is not looking for survivors, they were shelters under these buildings that building, another building right here and local officials don't know exactly how many were in the shelters, but they say hundreds at least. when these buildings came down, all the debris blocked access, entombing them essentially, and

they're trying to clear away the debris and get an estimate of the number of bodies. there have been estimates of 700 in bucha. neighbors say it is inexcusable. they don't understand why russia has done this, russian troops came in, acted with such brutality only now to leave. seems they are refocusing their military efforts in the east while people here in kyiv are counting bodies and trying to figure out how to rebuild their lives. >> thanks to richard engel and my colleague. secretary blinken acknowledged today that war crimes prosecutions take years. we know this. do you think vladimir putin is ever going to be held

accountable as the secretary of state has promised he will be? >> i went after president charles taylor of liberia. he was given a safe exile within three years. we had him to justice. one should never say never and of course we're talking about two horrendous type of war crimes, bombardment of residential structures, which can be only discriminant and these more interpersonal war crimes, the horrors that we saw in bucha, of murder of old women, shooting people down on bicycles, of whole families being killed in cars and torture chambers where people are literally tortured to death. these are all war crimes and the

russians' responsibility is to vet and prosecute those and if they don't investigate and prosecute those under international law you can hold the leaders responsible for the crimes as if they're the ones that did the murdering, torturing and raping. >> ambassador and general mccaffrey, hold on a moment. i want to bring in justice correspondent pete williams, who has just come back from the justice department and the merrick garland hearing. bring us up to date on what the attorney general has said. >> reporter: new charges against constantine malapf te f. the u.s. said he was encouraging russian separatists in crimea. the government says he was evading sanctions by trying to start a number of new media

companies in europe. he has already started a russian language television network in russia and they say he was trying to expand his media empire. he's under federal indictment. the fbi taking down a series of botnets, the robotic takeover the small computers that the fbi director says was actually done by the russian military, by the gru, russian military intelligence, that's these botnets could then be activated to create zombies and create -- the russians were able to detect this was happening, go into the computers that were infected and remove the malware. we just heard from the attorney general, merrick garland in a rather motional statement,

andrea. he said the justice department has a long history of holding accountability those who commit war crimes. he said the chief prosecutor of the justice department in paris is meeting with the french war crimes prosecutor. he said the justice department criminal prosecutors overseas have met with prosecutors from two european organizations, euro-just and euro-poll to work out a plan for gathering evidence in ukraine and the u.s. at the request of ukrainian prosecutors is assisting with the collection of information about the atrocities. he said he is not calling for any nuremberg style prosecution, but he said at this point the u.s. is very actively involved in trying to help the ukrainians and the europeans figure out what happened. >> ambassador, from your experience, does this project a real seriousness of purpose by our government against putin and his cronies for these war crimes? >> it does emphasize the real

seriousness. i think we have to take it beyond this. the ukrainians do need even more support in collecting the evidence. they need information and declassified information such as the memos we heard about in which the brutality and executions were planned as ways to brutalize the population. we also of course need to assist the international criminal court that has jurisdiction because it was given to it by ukraine. it has the capacity to build war crimes cases right up to president putin. we're not in that court but our law allows us to assist in cases of people who aren't american citizens. we did that during the obama administration in bringing key fugitives to justice. we immediate to support it here and frankly we should be joining with our allies in establishing a special tribunal with the ukrainians which they've requested to try the crime of aggression. people who are sitting

peacefully, didn't do anything and suddenly people have death raining from the sky. that's the central crime, the violation of the international norm against attack without provocation. and that needs to be tried and that goes right to the top. so not enough to go to a euro meeting. we need to be all in. >> in fact, i did an interview a week or so ago with gordon brown, the former u.k. prime minister, who is arguing precisely that, that the invasion itself is a war crime. ukraine's president zelenskyy is accusing russia of using food as a war crime can that be a war crime? >> absolutely. starvation is a war crime. and what they're doing in

mariupol, this isn't permitted under the terms of war. when you cut off food and medicine to the civilian population, that is a war crime. you don't have that intensive pattern to show the intentionality of intending to victimize the civilian population. this is exactly what mariupol is about and we should know. we've seen this done in grozny when putin was assuming power decades ago and what they did in support of assad in aleppo. this is the way the russians conduct war and it's a total violation of the geneva convention and all the rules of armed conflict. for that they need to be held responsible. these cases will go forward, whatever happens on the political front, there needs to be accountability and vladimir putin needs to be charged and go

to justice or die with an indictment hanging over his head. >> and one final question, general mccaffrey. i'm not going to play this just because i won't, but yesterday at a house armed services hearing congressman matt gates accused general austin, our defense secretary, of failures of leadership and excoriated him. i hope you didn't see it but i'm just asking you about the way that some of our political elected officials are accusing military veterans of failing to to prevent this war and failing in its leadership of it. >> disgusting, no principles. it's almost really not worth commenting on. as a general statement it's

encouraging to see mostly there's been bipartisan support of sensible u.s. foreign policy and national security objectives. i hope that continues. i mean, at the end of the day, look, we've got in the heart of europe, one of the biggest nations in europe, 40 million people at peril fighting for democracy. if that isn't an american principle of american values, exemplified by this magnificent secretary of defense, lloyd auston, with 40 years of experience with general mark milley, then i don't know what. so biden's team doing first rate work. >> thank you very much, general barry mccaffrey, thank you ambassador rapp. it's very good to have your insights today. and our thanks to pete williams. and more leadership is what president zelenskyy wants from ukraine's allies as we hear more accounts devastated by russia's

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ireland for more assistance. joining me is the former adviser to president zelenskyy. thank you very much. it's good to have you with us again. secretary of state blinken told me this morning for every russian tank in ukraine the u.s. will have provided after today's allotment or will soon provide tenant anti-tank systems and pledging $100 million in defense for ukraine with javelins. how much of a difference do you think this will make? >> that would make a lot of difference against the tanks but unfortunately the problem is not as simple as that. we still have, you know, our air threats, we have our humanitarian situation that's terrible and we have time working against us. in a ukrainian economy is not collapsing yet but will be in roughly two, three, or four weeks. putin is methodically attacking fuel depots and our agricultural equipment so that would cause a

ripple effect in a global food security and for food security in ukraine. so the situation is complex. but having said that, we appreciate what our friends in the u.s. are doing for us and we wouldn't be here without it. >> what are you hearing from bucha and other places that have been so devastated and the atrocities are being revealed as the russian forces have withdrawn temporarily, we believe, to regroup and attack again. >> well, i mean, it's just horrific. that's the only word that comes to mind. i've seen all the pictures, i've heard all the stories and i'm planning on going there in the next couple of days. but what's more troubling here is that all these atrocities have been long time coming. if you think about it are one of the reasons russia is acting in such brutal manner is because their previous aggressions went

unpunished. they did the same things in syria. we've identified some of the soldiers, you know, participating in rape and murder in bucha and they were the same soldiers stationed in syria, committing the very same crimes that went unpunished. that needs to stop. until we can pierce global impenetrable bubble of formalism, there will be more russias in this world and unfortunately things will only keep getting worse. >> igor, you have a young family. how is your family reacting to what you're hearing or seeing from bucha and other places? >> well, i actually had a conversation with my older daughter yesterday because one of her best friends has another best friend, as teen-agers do, and that family experienced a

light version of a tragedy. so that dog, their big dog eaten by the russian soldiers occupying bucha. i'm trying to explain to a 13-year-old why an invading force in europe will come to your land and eat your dog. it's hard to explain to her what the united security council is for in the 21st century. the world has its work cut out for it. to try and shout louder than the winds of change. >> in kyiv yourself, do you ever think you're safely protected given what happened in the outskirts of kyiv and russia's ability to hit from long range,

the artillery, as well as from the air? >> everyone got used to the missiles. the cruise missiles don't worry us as much. there was an explosion yesterday, it most likely was a missile because there was an air raid alert. to be honest, that's the most ridiculous thing. i actually felt safer, you know, with our ukrainian army fighting the russian forces close to where i live than i feel now when it's relatively quiet. and i think like, look, i overheard what general mccaffrey said. let me just reiterate that, you know, we need to show not only in ukraine but in the u.s. the most respect for the armed forces. in ukraine at the moment, they are our leader, they are our chief negotiator and our main hope for peace in the future. so respect for the veterans and the armed forces is a must. >> well, igor, it's always good to see you. and please stay safe and the

care of your children has to be first and foremost. thank you. >> thank you. >> and punishing putin. president biden expected to talk about those new sanctions against russia later today. i'll talk to connecticut senator chris murphy about what impact that could have. that's coming next. this is a special edition of andrea mitchell reports live from brussels, only on msnbc. for adventure. your home... for romance. your home for big savings. [ laughs ] hey, mom, have you seen m-- ew. because when you bundle home and auto with progressive, your home is a savings paradise. bundles progressive. your home for savings.

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ready for his solo... but no. he's currently checkin' his investments. you gotta have a plan outside the band, man. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop. what would you like the power to do? russia's economy is forecast to shrink by 15% or more this year as a result of global sanctions against moscow. that's according to three sources familiar to our white house team. it comes as president biden is set to announce the pressure wave of sanctions in the next hour in coordination with the g7 and eu here in brussels. joining us is senator chris murphy, democrat from connecticut, member of foreign relations committee and a real expert on ukraine going all the way back. i want to drill down about the specifics of these sanctions, senator. i asked secretary of state blinken about the big loopholes. we're not doing secondary sanctions against china and

india and others who are still trading and buying oil from russia. he told me that they're trying to close them but that, you know, he thinks that one by one they're doing something important. does this new wave of sanctions address these loopholes? >> not all of the loopholes but some big ones. there are two banks here, spare bank and alta bank that we had not been able to convince europe in the previous round of sanctions to apply full blocking sanctions. we've done that today. europe is seeing the same images that we are of war crimes being committed inside ukraine, using the tactics of a terrorist state to butcher civilians to try to pressure zelenskyy to the negotiating table. we're glad europe has now joined us on these complete absolute sanctions on these two banks

that were able to work around the first set of sanctions. with respect to china and india, i think it's important to recognize that there's a limit to what those two countries can provide to russia. russia needs the united states and europe in order to sustain its economy. china cannot be a market for all of the oil that is produced in russia that it needs to place on world markets. and so, yes, i would rather that china and india be joining us in these sanctions but even if they don't, the sanctions applied by the united states and europe alone have an absolutely devastating and crippling impact on the russian economy and will affect the calculations of vladimir putin. >> do you think that he will be affected by sanctioning his two adult daughters? >> i think he is likely priced in the cost of personal

sanctions. it is much more likely that these broad based economic sanctions, which may ultimately compromise his hold on power and will ultimately cause him to run out of money to continue to fight this war will have the most consequential impact. i don't know that putin has enough money in reserve to continue to pay for the expense of this war beyond the end of this year. in addition, the sanctions that we have placed that limit the import of key defense goods means he's not going to be able to repair much of the complicated machinery that's coming back damaged from ukraine. he just may run out of funds to continue to pay for this war. that likely is going to have the biggest impact. >> and general milley told congress this war could last years. can ukraine stand up to a continuous russian assault for years? >> well, as you know, andrea,

better than anybody, ukraine has been at war with russia since 2014. every time that i'm in ukraine, they remind me of the fact that that war that had lasted since the invasion of luhansk and donetsk took the lives of 14,000 ukrainian civilians and what we need to communicate, not just to ukraine but to russia right now is that the united states is prepared to be in this fight with ukraine for as long as it takes as well. that doesn't just mean providing ukraine the weapons that they need, it also means providing ukraine the economic support it needs to keep its economy up and operating, creating a contrast with a russian economy that is going to be in free fall. >> and as much as we have to be

focused about ukraine, this hot war, i just want to ask you a question about iran because this morning i asked secretary blinken with iran and he told me he's, quote, not overly optimistic about the prospects of getting an agreement to conclusion on the new nuclear deal with iran. how big a threat is that? >> a massive threat. if we don't get a deal with iran, iran is literally on the doorstep of a nuclear weapon. they are weeks away, as we speak, from having enough nuclear material to produce a weapon. it will also set off a nuclear arms race in the middle east. it won't be long before the saudis and the turks start to pursue nuclear weapons as well. what a disaster that would be for the united states. i hope that the administration is going to get a deal and i hope that they aren't going to let political considerations in the united states be the barrier to that deal. if there's a good deal on the table that prevents iran from getting a nuclear weapon and the biden administration has to sign

that deal. let us do the work of selling that deal in congress. we'll get it done. we'll get the votes for it, but i'm getting a little worried that the administration is looking at political realities in the united states when they are contemplating whether to get into a deal that o protects the world from a nuclear weapon. >> would you take iran's revolutionary guard off the terror list in order to get a deal? >> yes. i mean, the practical impact of designating them as a foreign terrorist organization is inconsequential. we have dozens of other terrorist designations that would remain. and so to me if that's the barrier to getting a deal, then

let's get it done because there's no sign that while we have been applying that designation to the revolutionary guard that it's had any impact on their support for terrorist groups around the region. so i just don't see that it will be a practical impact of withdrawing that designation, is especially since we'll have loads of other sanctions applying to the irani regime and roc. >> senator chris murphy, thank you very much, sir. >> thank you. >> and sticker shock at home. how americans are dealing with prices that keep going up and up and up. and a new warning that we could soon face a recession. you're watching a special edition of "andrea mitchell live reports," from brussels, only on

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this morning rising costs from gas to groceries leading to a stark warning of a possible recession in the coming year. we have more on what is triggering concerns among come assumers and one of the world's largest banks. >> reporter: there are new worries and warnings of a possible recession triggered by high prices for food and gas. this comes as nbc news polling shows a majority of americans disapprove of how president biden is handling the economy. this morning shoppers are pinching pennies as inflation continues to soar and fears of a recession are on the rise. according to new data, consumers are buying more generic store brands for the first time in almost two years, choosing cheaper versions of cooking oil, eggs, sugar, toilet paper and baby formula and purchasing smaller amounts of cereal and cleaning supplies as inflation

remains at a 40-year high. families are making cuts to afford those rising grocery and gas bills. >> we never eat out anymore. we used to eat like once a week or something. we hardly ever do that anymore. >> at jim dandy's in rutherford, new jersey, owner brian flynn is feeling the pain. >> the way the food costs are running out of control and the labor shortage, it's really unprecedented. >> he says he's hiked prices four times due to the rising cost of labor, frying oil and chicken and still losing money on every plate of chicken fingers. >> i should charge $21 for five chicken fingers and fries. i charge $13.95. >> the odds of a recession are at 38% in the next two years. last week changes in the bond market. federal reserve chair jerome powell says he's trying to

prevent recession by raising interest rates gradually this year. for consumers worried about a possible investigation, what do you say to that? >> our intention is to bring inflation down to 2% while sustaining a strong labor market and that the economy is very strong. >> reporter: by raising interest rates slowly, the fed is hoping to cool off consumer spending without triggering a recession with layoffs and unemployment. but if you're worried, experts recommend boosting your emergency savings and watching your budget, trimming the fat to deal with these persistent high prices. >> and that was nbc's jo ling kent. our thanks to her. how one of our top news anchors was reunited with her husband as he was on the front lines of this fight. we are live from brussels on msnbc.

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his house, beside his mother's grave after she died of starvation and stress. others sent their loved ones to the front lines, unsure if they'll return. so, when they do return, you get emotional reunions like this one, between a tv anchor and her husband. gabe gutierrez has their story. >> reporter: this is just the first hug of his homecoming. he has a bigger surprise ahead. he's been on the ukrainian frontlines while his wife has been taking care of their three kids. >> sometimes he can be offline for four or five days when he's on a mission and not supposed to use his mobile phone. actually what keeps me distracted from all the wars. >> she happens to be one of ukraine's top news anchors, fighting her own battle. >> we know how russians are sufficient and professional in

making up news and fake news and propaganda. so, i think our biggest weapon as journalists is to tell the truth, to show what's going on. >> across ukraine, they have banded together for a unified news cast from undisclosed locations airing for hours each day, even as their families are at risk. >> when i do my day dreaming and when i think about my biggest hope, i imagine how my husband comes back and how my children get to see him again. >> reporter: sometimes day dreams do come true. even if victories don't come easy. gabe gutierrez, nbc news. >> and our thanks to gabe gutierrez for a little bit of good news from the frontlines. and coming up, my exclusive interview with secretary of state, tony blinken today.

what he has to say about whether ukrainians can win the war and holding vladimir putin accountable. when "andrea mitchell reports" live from brussels returns. "an" live from brussels returns nothing will stop me from vacation. no canceling. (laughs) flexible cancellation. kayak. search one and done. to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health.

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hear from president biden about the new sanctions. and we're minutes away from my full, exclusive interview with secretary of state, tony blinken. we begin with the need get aid to the besieged people in mariupol. these images released by the red cross, rescuing 500 mariupol residents after they've endured more than a month of constant shelling and starvation from russian forces. humanitarian groups getting through the russian lines still hoping to evacuate thousands more. thousands more civilians along 11 separate corridors. they're going to try again today. while some are are moving to safety, the bombardment of kharkiv in northeast ukraine is continuing with more than two dozen strikes reported on residential areas overnight and blocking entry from multiple points. and officials say 10 million people, 10 million, nearly one in every four ukrainian