coordination with our allies and our partners. and i'm sure you've seen the pictures from bucha and just outside of kyiv. bodies left in streets as russian troops withdraw. some shot in the back of head with hands tied behind their backs. civilians executed in cold blood. bodies dumped into mass graves. a sense of brutality and humanity left for all the world to see unapologetically. there is nothing less happening than major war crimes. responsible nations have to come together to hold these perpetrators accountable. and together with our allies and our partners we're going to keep raising the economic cost and ratchet up the pain for putin and further cause economic isolation. [ applause ]

folks, the steps we're already taken are predicted to shrink's gross domestic product by double-digits this year alone. just in one year, our sanctions are likely to wipe out the last 15 years of russia's economic gains and because we've cut russia off from important technologies like semiconductor and components of quantum technology they need to compete in the 21st century, we're going to stifle the economy to grow for years to come. folks, this is the united states. and we're taking additional steps with our allies and partners to raise the economic pressure on putin. first, the united states will impose full blocking sanctions on spare bank, by far the largest financial institution in russia and alpha bank, the

largest private bank. we're locking down any accounts, any funds that those banks hold in the united states. they'll not be able to touch any of their money. they'll not be able to do any business here. and second, i'm going to sign an executive order that is going to ban any new u.s. investment in russia. more than 600 private sector companies -- [ applause ] folks, corporate america is stepping up for a change. from mcdonald's to exxon, they've left the russian market on their own accord. 600 of thome. think about that. prive businesses choosing to leave russia rather than be associated with putin brutal war and this ban on investment will make sure that new money can't come into russia to replace what

is left so that russian economy doesn't feel the loss and the loss of these businesses for the long-term. third, we're adding more critical state owned enterprised to the list of fully blocked russian companies. they are major revenue generators which putin used to fund his war in ukraine. they'll also be cut off from doing any business with the united states. they will not be able to access or use any assets they have in the united states. and fourth, we along with our european allies are adding names of a russian elites an their families that we're sanctioning. do you see these yachts that are being picked up? no, think about it. think about the incredible amounts of money these oligarchs have stolen. the yachts that are hundreds and millions of dollars. look, the oligarch and the family members are not allowed to hold on to their wealth in the europe and united states and

keep the yachts worth hundreds of millions of dollars and luxury vacation homes while children are being kill and displaced from their homes every single day. and finally, we're continuing to supply ukraine with the weapons resources they need to defend fir country. last friday -- [ applause ] last friday we announced millions in funding to procure new equipment for ukraine. advanced drones, laser guided rocket systems and yesterday i signed another package to send moreaf lynn shoulder mounted missiles that could take out tanks and armored vehicles. to keep getting an uninterrupted supply to the ukrainian military. we won't be able to advertise every piece of security we give because our allies and partners are supplying to ukraine through us but advanced weapons are

flowing in every day. and as you may have seen yesterday on television when the secretary of defense was being cross-examined by one of our -- how could i say it, our congress persons. saying what have you done. and he basically looked at him and said what the hell do you think we've done. why do you think they've been able to fight. we've trained them and given them the weapons. that is what is happening. [ applause ] look, thanks to the bravery an the fighting spirit of the ukrainian people russia have failed in its initial war aims. they wanted to take kyiv and topple democracy and elected government. today kyiv still stands and that government still presides. this fight is far from over. here is the point. this war could continue for a

long time. but the united states will continue to stand with ukraine and the ukrainian people and the fight for freedom. and i just want you to know that. and by the way, if i got to go to war, i'm going with you guys. i'll tell you. i mean it. i want to talk about -- [ applause ] i want to talk about what i'm here today to talk about. you women and men, and the american union movement, remember, you know, when the fair laish -- >> we wanted to bring you the top of the remarks here, i'm chuck todd and on "mtp daily" and we knew there would be the latest developments by the administration to announce new sanctions on russia. rest of the speech is union event. we'll bring you any news if it happens. you could go find the speech online if would you like.

the new sanctions in coordination with the g7 and eu are part of the all hands on deck effort from the state department to the justice department to treasury and in its it attempt to punish russia for everything they've done in ukraine. they continue to see mounting evidence of war crimes committed by russian forces in ukraine. journalists and human rights groups are reporting the discovery of burned bodies in the bucha and russian troops have now withdrawn. you new sanctions do target vladimir putin's children and target the largest football institution, alpha bank and a ban on russia completely and this morning merrick garland announced an indictment against a russian oligarch for violating sanctions already in place. these are the first criminal charges filed against an oligarch since the war in ukraine began. >> our message to those who

continue to enable the russian regime through their criminal conduct is this. it does not matter how far you sail your yacht, it does not matter how well you conceal your assets, it does not matter how cleverly you write your mal-ware or hide your online activity. the justice department will use every available tool to find you, disrupt your plots, and hold you accountable. >> meanwhile the secretary of state is in blessels to meet with his nato counterparts and also the foreign minister of ukraine. and he just announced additional money for anti-armor systems and discussed that decision in an exclusive interview with my colleague andrea mitchell. >> put this in perspective. between the united states and other allies and partners, for every russian tank in ukraine, we have provided or will soon

provide ten anti-tank systems. ten for every single russian tank. so in terms of what they need to act quickly and act effectively and deal with the tanks, try droi their cities from the ground, they have the tools that they need, they're going to keep getting them and we're going to keep sustaining that. >> all of it defensive tools. there has been some hesitation on giving them what would be considered potentially offensive weapons. capitol hill today janet yellen reiterated that russia be removed from the g 20. she also said that the united states would not participate in a number of meetings at this year's g20 summit if russia is in attendance. so let's check in at the white house. with shannon pettypiece and i have molly huntner kyiv and julia freelander from the atlantic council, spent time on the national security council and treasury department.

shannon, let me start with you. and the question we're all thinking about here now, whenever we get these sanctions announcement, okay, is this it? what else is left? is it the final round of sanctions. i know they say we have more and that leads to if you do, then why not level them now. so what is left? >> well, the white house does say there are additional sanctions that they can put in place. there are a number of billionaires in russia who still haven't been sanctioned whose families haven't been sanctioned. there are still parts of the russian financial sector that could be sanctioned. these sanctions today on burbank and alpha bank, that is two-thirds of the financial system under sanction and that leaves another third to go after. you noted the sanctions being placed on putin's family members, often times these oligarchs will try and get around sanctions by shifting money to family members or to shell companies. so that the administration is saying they believe what has been happening here and so they

are trying to cut off that. it is continued pressure that the administration, though, acknowledges is not going to change putin's behavior overnight. they are saying this is going to be something that is sustained economically. but we're also hearing a line from the white house increasingly about how not ome is this about putting pressure on the russian economy, on russian's wealthy individuals but it is also about trying to prevent russia from financing this sustained military campaign. a war takes money. it takes supplies, it takes technology. and so when we really sort of started the sanction process it was focused on a pressure campaign but now you hear officials talking about how the sanctions are being targeted and crippling the military operations directly through cutting off the various lines of finance. >> and shannon, there is another development today. our colleagues carol lee and courtney kube and ken delanian

are reporting, that some of this information warfare that the u.s. government has been engaged in with declassified intelligence, there are some folks acknowledging, hey, some of this intelligence is maybe one source, right. it is not rock solid. it's -- and they're using it any way. that presents a bit of a risk. so far the intelligence has been pristine. and playing this game has worked. but the idea that they are using intel that isn't, say, rock solid, how risky is that and do officials acknowledge that their playing a little bit of a risky game here? >> right. and i mean that is something that i know sources and officials told my colleagues in that reporting. that it risks undercutting u.s. credibility if the u.s. comes out and they're wrong here. one of the things the administration officials said early on is in a way we hope you're wrong when it comes to timing. we hope necessarily that russia is not going to invade this week or we have some more time.

or we hope the cyberattacks aren't going to take place but we're going to warn you about them any way on the chance that they do and they could head this off. so clearly a strategy that the administration is just continued to double down on because they believe it has been effective so far. but as you note, in the months ahead, as this invasion and this war continues, it is something that officials will have to grapple with from a messaging standpoint as well. >> that is right. the risk of being wrong here, we are who we are and one mistake could get weaponized in a direction that maybe messes with european unity. thank you. let me mover over to molly hunter in kyiv for us. and let me just start with this. what, if all russian troops are gone now, can you feel it in can you tell being in kyiv right now? >> i keep looking off camera and apologize because we're just

hearing some explosions actually. it sounds pretty far away. we're not sure what those are right now. so no, they're not totally gone to be crystal clear. it doesn't sound like that. we'll figure out what that is and get back to you. but i spent the day at a town, a suburb about an hour northwest of kyiv. that the russians have occupied for the last five weeks and this is the first day really we've gotten a look inside. and it is -- the destruction is on the level of bucha and we're hearing that bucha is not the only place that those atrocities have taken place. so i want to give you a quick sense, driving up it. it is between kyiv and belarus. it was on that access. it was heavily shelled at very beginning so russian troops could secure that route. we passed a lot of burned out destroyed tanks. so when we're talking about what else the u.s. is doing, what else the u.s. has announced, those shoulder mounted javelins are what ukrainian infantry have been talking about. so a lot of destroyed tanks on

the way in and armored vehicles then we saw along the road just former camps littered with trash everywhere. getting into the town, the destruction was massive. nine story apartment buildings completely leveled. the main treat just has been shelled heavily, completely destroyed. they feel that the russians have definitely withdrawn. there are ukrainian troops. people are coming out of their basements for the first time in five weeks. we heard harrowing stories and we met one woman who flagged us down on the street and she was hysterical and her neighbor had to bury her son outside in the backyard and they said everybody is burying bodies in the backyard. but they know the russians aren't that far. a lot of the russian troops withdraw up to belarus to refuel so no one in the northwest suburbs of kyiv that we've been reporting from including bucha where my colleague richard engle has been, no one is relaxed.

>> well you would assume that. i'm curious to hear what the ukrainian government hears when they hear secretary of tate blinken tell andrea mitchell for every one russian tank we're giving ten anti-tank and then he glossed over the help from the air. it does seem as though there is a disconnect between ukrainian asks when it comes to air defense versus what we're saying we're delivering. what do you hear from the ukrainian side? >> absolutely. and you have heard president zelenskyy and other ukrainian officials since day one ask for air defense systems like s-300 and for heavy duty defense systems that could give them a fighting chance in the sky. because right now in the east, i was in odesa in the south last week and there were explosions on the out skirts of the city. they had a fuel depot. there is no way for ukraine to defend the skies in the entire

country. they have to concentrate that and they don't have the equipment everywhere. to shoulder mounted javelins, those are great to top tank convoys if you have the troops on ground and that is what happened on our drive. what is not happening is the much heavier duty big time air defense systems that we've heard zelenskyy talk so much about. >> molly hunter. thank you so much. let's bring in our sanctions experts from the atlantic council and that is julia freelander. so let me ask the same question i asked my colleagues shannon pettypiece about what is left. have we basically leveled every effective sanction that we could think of? >> i think we've used most of them. there are always areas to tighten the screws again as my colleague just alluded to. further banking restrictions, further restrictions on either the state of the economy or private enterprises. but at this point, what the biden administration in conjunction with european and

east asian allies have to consider is whether secondary sanctions are in the cards. this is lingo for sanctioning any business doing business with a sanctioned entity. it is a dangerous option. because we're looking at potentially em posing costs on third parties such as india and china who are potentially doing business are russia. >> so it does seem as if the secondary sanctions is something that has been complicated to put together because of so many other diplomatic pressures. where could this be most effective and where -- what the hurdle to it? >> i think it is a question about how much we are going to involve the global economy in this conflict. again, i think it is hard and pains me to say this but this is the west's economic war. it is not the world's economic war. actors in india, china, latin

america are sitting on the side lines not only because they don't want to experience the potential economic ramifications of this, but also they don't want to be drawn into a conflict that could -- that could make them have to take political sides more than a vote at the united nations. so i think that is what the united states really has to consider carefully right now about the balance between economic pressure on third parties and as you say, chuck, the diplomacy that has to happen behind the scenes. >> let me ask you this. what is a time frame that we should use to judge how effective the sanctions have been? when should we start having -- when is a fair marker? >> well, i think it is fair to say what the president just said is that the sanctions are already having a massive effect on the russian economy. we're seeing potentially a 15% drop in gdp in the coming year, that could even be a conservative estimate. huge pressures on the financial system. on the domestic economy and on russians themselves. the question here is about

tactic and timelines. again, i think we initially thought that the ukrainians would not be able to fight back as much as they have. and so the idea of locking up foreign exchange reserves was the hardest measure we could take and we did it right away because we thought this was going to be something that could be over quite fast. now we're looking at a protracted conflict. that is the russians facing an insurgency and because they are being pushed back. so again it is a question of allowing the sanctions to take effect over the coming months and years. and the biden administration is appropriate in saying that this is a major setback for russia that could last a decade. >> so how do you avoid a post world war 1 scenario with russia? >> i really don't know. and this is the question about how much the global economy could absorb and how it will react to wiping a g 20 country off the map in a course of

weeks. and whether it is going to force china and india to realign, and the role the gulf states are play in this, they are the key to unlocking additional reserves at opec. you're playing with a global financial markets in response to a localized land war. so, to answer your question, i do not know how this will play out. >> yeah. i think that is the -- we're in a lot of unknowns at this point and many of those questions could be answered by one man. the leader of russia. julia, appreciate you sharing your expertise with us. thank you. >> thank you for having me into in addition to the new sanctions, the president just announced, the department of justice unsealed an indictment today of a russian oligarch for sanctions you heard about earlier and he announced a takedown of a russian cyber scheme. he closed his remarks by responding to the horrific images we've been seeing from bucha and a message to war criminals. >> the world sees what is

happening in ukraine. the justice department sees what is happening in ukraine. today we are assisting international efforts to identify and hold accountable those responsible for atrocities in ukraine. >> so joining me now, on what accountability could look like is ambassador pierre richard prosper, the ambassador at large for war crimes issues during the george w. bush administration and the lead war times international for rwanda during the late 90s. and really appreciate you spending a few minutes here. so let's start -- help me understand the process. we're right now investigating officially trying to gather evidence for likely war crimes that were committed by russian soldiers. what is this evidence gathering look like when it comes to preparing for war crimes trial?

>> well, thank you for having me, chuck. well what it looks like and what you're seeing is that both the united states government, european governments and ngo's and open sources such as the media are all collecting information of atrocities and starting to put it together. i'm sure there are interviews that are taking place of refugees and other individuals and a package is being created that will allow prosecutors to assess and determine exactly what not only what happened but who is responsible. >> i want to play a line from president zelenskyy isn his speech to the united nationed yesterday because he invoked in our emberg. >> we have satellite images and we could conduct full and transparent investigation. and anyone who has begin criminal orders and carried out them by killing our people will

be brought before the tribunal which should be similar to the nuremburg tribunals. >> now nuremberg took place before there was an international criminal court. but is -- how similar should we compare a potential trial that could take place whether putin is alive or not when it happens? >> well, i don't think it is helpful to compare it or to have something similar to nuremberg. because nuremberg was the victors of world war 2, the allied powers. what we need here is international condemnation. we need the entire international community to come together and hold putin and other persons responsible for these atrocities because this is the only way that the outcome, the justice that is achieved will have a lasting impact. so i think that the best

measures to proceed are pushing within the international community and when i say that, i mean the global community. this includes africa, asia, latin america, the idea behind not only accountability but its pursuit. >> who would be put on trial? just those that give the orders or those that follow the orders as well? is that possible? like nuremberg? >> it is. it is. i think you have to look at not only the actual perpetrators in the field, the soldiers that are committing the atrocities, the egregious acts but you have to go up the chain of command. because this is a situation where the leaders have the ability to prevent or to punish. they also are presumable alreadyoy possibly giving the instructions or the orders to commit these acts. what we have here is a very undisciplined war. and this -- this outcome was not

only foreseeable based on the way that russia has prosecuted the war but it is likely that it is part of the policy. >> there is a war trial that got started yesterday. the darfur trial started yesterday. 20 years after the crimes themselves were committed. 200,000 dead, one lone defendant as the "new york times" put it. is that realistically how long it takes to go from the gathering of evidence to actually presenting the evidence and having a trial like this? >> well, it shouldn't. i think the reality is we need to recognize that justice is patient and justice could wait but we don't want to wait 20 years. chuck, i was part of the determination of the genocide in -- or indicators of genocide in darfur under the leadership of powell and president bush at the time and we had hoped that justice would be achieve quickly

but not 20 years later. >> does a war -- is it worth having the trial if the leader of that country is no longer walking this earth? >> well, i think it is important to document exactly what has taken place. let's say whether it is putin or someone else, if they are no longer walking in earth, as you say, it is still important that the societies come to terms with the past. because in order to prevent future atrocities, people need to understand exactly what happened and how these things unfolded. so whether it is -- it is ultimately trial, whether there is some sort of fact-finding truth process, something needs to be had. >> is there anything that the u.n. can do or because russia is a permanent member and could veto anything that -- any resolution that is called for, is accountability from the united nations just not something we should expect?

>> well, i think this is a security council will be hampered by russia being a permanent member. but the general assembly could take action. they could vote and make its voice known and be part of that condemnation. it also could make recommendations as to vehicles of accountability. but the security council needs to continue what it is doing and continue to be debating this issue and raising the awareness so that what is happening is absolutely undeniable. >> the definition of genocide, we've heard president zelenskyy use the word a lot. you just said that part of your job was to essentially part of the group that does this meet the definition of a genocide. what is the definition and is it -- has it been met in ukraine? >> well, genocide is basically committing a series of acts whether it is killing,

inflicting conditions of life designed to harm and destroy, you commit these acts with the intent to destroy in whole and in part a national ethnic and relations group. here, i believe, we have conduct that is clear that the russian government, putin, are trying to definitely in -- intimidate and the intent is to destroy them so they are effectively immaterial to humanity and immaterial to society. i think there are -- the russian government is moving closer to that line. but i can't say that they've crossed that line at this moment. >> i imagine one piece of strong evidence, against the russians is that putin speech where he sort of denied the idea that ukraine had sovereignty. i assume that would be a big piece of evidence, ambassador?

>> well, exactly. everything that putin has said not only during the course of the war but leading up to the war will be evidence. because it is -- it indicates what his motive is. it indicates what the policy is. and it indicates the mindset for which these atrocities have unfolded. what is also shows is that putin has a firm grasp of the entire command structure. >> right. >> and with that, it is clear that he is either directing what is happening on the ground, or has the ability to prevent it if he wished. >> ambassador, really appreciate you sort of taking us behind the scenes and how this process works. this tough gets thrown around and words get thrown around. you brought some reality to the situation. appreciate your time with us. thank you. >> great. thank you for having me. up next, legislation. it has come to a complete stop on capitol hill. the democrats dilemma over immigration just got more complicated.

dick durbin ahead joins us for that and more. you're watching ""meet the press" daily." s. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ you'd think the sax player would be getting ready for his solo... but no. he's currently checkin' his investments. you gotta have a plan outside the band, man. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop. what would you like the power to do?

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welcome back. new covid funding that the biden administration white house said is needed by state as peers like it is about to become a casualty of the biden administration's immigration policy. that is correct. you heard that right. a bipartisan group of lawmakers, a deal on covid legislation is not going forward right now because of the decision not to include an amendment on this title 42 which of course lifted pandemic border restrictions. now the department of homeland security and the cdc announced last week that it was going to suspend title 42. which is essentially kept border crossings at a minimum. but the end could come in late may. we say could because things could change and it is prompted a lot of pushback from republicans and a handful of democrats. i'm joined now by senator dick durbin from illinois. and obviously senator, i know immigration reform is the white

whale of your last five years of your career, i could argue. maybe eight or ten years at this point. but let me ask you this, covid relief funding is needed. i know you're going to say they're playing politics here and you know there are democratic votes and why not include at mendment on title 42. what is the down side. >> once we start the process on the floor, we're not going to get to any reasonable conclusion in a short period of time. we had hoped that this covid bill would have a sense of urgency and emergency for both political parties. want to salute the four republican senators who have worked hard with chuck schumer and the democrats to put together a package. we were ready to go and a vote scheduled yesterday and then the republican lunch went the other way and all of the republicans voted against it. listen, bottom line, you know it and you've alluded to it, our immigration system is badly broken and it has been that way for decades. it is not just a situation of a biden problem, it is a problem

that goes back to trump and those before him. and the situation at the border is a challenge to a degree we'd never anticipate and maybe even greater challenge to come. what we need to do is sit down together and say what is the orderly way to do it. we can't accept everyone in the world that wants to come across or border. there has to been an orderly way that those have a chance to say so and prove it at a hearing and in a fashion that reflects our values as a nation. that is been the bottom line for a long time. >> do you -- do you concur with senator mark kelly's criticism that you don't want to see title 42 lifted without a plan going forward. the administration is arguing, hey, this is a cdc decision, it is almost like, hey, this is an agency issue. should there be more coordination and planning and should there not be a target date for when the board ser

opened. >> listen, there needs to be a coordinated response. i couldn't agree with senator kelly more. there needs to be a coordinated response of all of the agencies. the response that we need is not going to happen overnight. right now their shifting more personnel and creating more processing centers. you could argue it should have start aid long time ago but that is the condition that we're in. we can't have a free for all at the border. it is unacceptable. we have to have an orderly process and agree with senator kelly, we need to have the agencies of this administration coordinating what they are doing. >> is there any way out of covid funding right now? are you going to be able to get this in or is this going to -- is this sitting in purgatory? >> i don't want to give it up on it. because it literally involves vaccines and therapeutics and puing things aside to make sure that the next surge in pandemic doesn't claim more american lives. it is literally a life or death issue. we cut the amount of bill down by one-third of the original

amount and it was a good faith bipartisan effort. sh shouldn't break down over any single issue. this on its own feet should be an issue that we support on both parties. >> i'm looking at today's date, april 6th. is today the date, or maybe until friday when the senate likely confirms judge jackson to the supreme court, is that the last piece of relevant legislation that is going to get passed before election day. >> i certainly hope not. >> i hear you. but the build back better part three, senator sinema poured cold water on that and covid funding can't getting through. is the campaign overtaking legislating. >> well we made a good effort on covid. we think it reflected what american believes. we shouldn't be caught unaware and flat footed if this comes back to haunt us. i hope we could bring this back together on a bipartisan basis. we have to do it in the context of bipartisanship.

these are bipartisan measures and take us to the end of the session. let's not waste a minute that we could spend in washington addressing the problems that face american families, the costs that they're running into for cost of living, the challenges that we're facing with law and order in some communities, it is very serious. and even the problem of immigration. i'm reaching out to the republican side to see if there is any possibility that we could find some common ground. that is our job. that is why we're sent here. >> i want to ask you about the situation in ukraine. your colleagues, your republican colleague of yours senator roy blunt indicated that congress should be codified the sanctions that not everything should come out of the administration because if youfy it, it will guarantee that it is harder to lift right away and i think there is a lot of desire to make sure that these sanctions don't get lifted right away no matter who is in charge of the treasury department. do you concur. would you like to codify some of these. >> whatever it takes, sign me

up. as co-chair of the ukrainian caucus, outraged by the reports out of bucha and ukraine and putting the vladimir putin is job one. do it militarily through the heroic freedom fighters in ukraine, do it on an economic basis through nato and european union and any other entity that will join in. if a separate measured passed by congress is going to be more effective, let's do it that way. i'm open to anything that brings an end to the blooding and killing that taking place in that country. >> this likely, these likely crimes that were committed by russian soldiers and under the orders of putin, has it changed your calculus about it is hard to watch, senator. and i'm sure there is a part of you that said why aren't we going in there and putting an end to this. because we don't know, this is what we've seen so far. i think we're all petrified of what mariupol is look like once we get a good idea of what has

happened in the donbas region. it is likely going to be worse, senator. it is tough to watch. >> i have exactly the same feelings you do. and i wonder, i just wonder ultimately what we will do, the lengths we will go to, to stop putin. and we're naive to believe this is all wrapped up in a matter of weeks or months, as general milley said. i'm afraid vladimir putin has struck out on a course as long as he's in control of the forces, it puts at risk not only ukraine when ch we know today, tomorrow poland and the day after baltics. there is no end to this man's attacks on -- >> do you think there is a point where we're obligated to help, more than just sending weapons but maybe nato goes in and at least secures some -- some peace. >> listen, if the end game is that vladimir putin scours the earth in ukraine and killed half of the people and displaced the

other, and then he leaves and we suggest that is a victory for the west, we stood up for ukraine, that is not an ending that i want to sign up for. we have to be ready to stop this man because i could tell you he wouldn't stop at ukraine. >> and i think we all fear that as well. senator dick durbin, democrat from illinois. appreciate you coming on. >> thanks, chuck. up next, governors could be the bright spot for the democratic party and what is shaping up to be a rough midterm environment for the democrats. we'll explain. you're watching meet the press daily. wrap their arms around us, could we put little handles on our jackets? -denied. -can you imagine? i want a new nickname. can you guys start calling me snake? no, bryan. -denied. -how about we all get quotes to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? approved. cool! hey, if bryan's not gonna be snake, can i be snake? -all: no.

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core and yamiche alcindor. and democratic runners might be ahead of biden and it is a eight to ten point gap and it feels if you're a democratic incumbent governor, it is easier to separate yourself from the president than if you're a democratic senator. >> when you look at the numbers, it in some ways underscores why there were people missing by those -- in those key visits to pennsylvania, to georgia when the president was out selling his agenda. this is another sign that president biden and the white house is really in trouble and facing real challenges here. >> i've got the swing states. michigan is a 13% gap between whitmer and biden and nevada a nine point gap. and if we the president's job ratings is below 45, it is going

to be an anchor. and the governors also have a lot of money to give away. that the secret to their success. >> they are the beneficiaries of the american rescue plan and giving you money to execute and do programs in state and help but if you look at the flip of that, you have senator manchin who in my view is responsible for taking biden's approval rating. so the biden can't have the same success that the governors had in executing program because he held it up. >> rick, i've seen some ads hitting democratic governors by republicans that are trying to invoke biden because they know they would like to do it and governors do have an easier way to step aside from it. >> well that is right. biden is in real trouble. these numbers are considered, i keep reading wipe nout numbers. we'll see if that remains to be true. >> i don't know if the map could support the wipeout. >> it would be much harder in the senate. it is hard to come up with seats on either side that will flip. but when you get a massive turnout in one party, then you do pick up these seats that

people never thought of. so it is interesting that biden is becoming an anchor, because he hasn't gotten any bump out of ukraine and i think part of that is we don't -- we don't have bodies in ukraine like a live -- people would rally a flag if, in fact, you had troops in ukraine. because then you could actually, what biden is trying to do, is to bind support for ukraine with inflation and with high gas and food prices. but people see them as separate issues because we don't have people there. i'm not suggesting that you put them there. >> no. do you concur, because it is striking pick a focus group or a poll, the public is screaming, focus on the cost of living issues, please, not on ukraine. >> we have to walk and chew gum at same time. the orking class is hurting and biden was on and aggressive fron

foot posture from the president. we don't see that but i like that. if you saw the poll that suggested the child tax credit recipients, they had been 12 points up and now republicans are up with that same group of people. >> this is where, as i said with senator durbin, do we mark today as the death of legislating in washington, or after judge jackson is confirmed because it looks like sinema tanked whan compromise they were using. it seems like this is over. >> this is the problem and the challenge that the white house is facing. is that the biggest thing that the president wants to talk about which is his agenda and build back better, they can't talk about it even in the white house budget put out, it was in the footnotes because there are so many problems within the party of getting it passed. you have manchin taking it and sinema doing what she's doing. but then you also have this idea that democrats are struggling with things like covid because we just talked about republicans now wanting to block it and

wanting to block title 42 and wanting that to be reinstalled. or for it to be kept in place. so there is really this problem with the president, having a message that he wants to be talking about but not having any time to be able to go on the offensive and i'm struck by what former president obama said offa was walking out of the white house, he said we have a message, democrats, we need to be saying. that is what was on obama's mind and it's harder to do. >> i don't mean to back street drive there, mr. former president, but you had that problem. >> and he could be part of the solution. i have not heard a lot from the former president of the united states and he has not come out to too many events with the president, so if you want to get in the ring and offer your message. >> will there be a hold up on the covid funding with title 42?

>> barring a variant that causes a problem, i don't think there is. they do not want to lift the trump executive order of forbidding people to coming in for covid reasons. >> the immigration story, immigration divides democrats more than republicans. i see you nodding. >> yeah, it does. >> this is a huge barrier in figuring out how to solve the problem. >> it has been there for so long, and immigration activist are mad at the biden administration, and they also have a base that is essentially saying you need to get this together, you need to do things for dreamers and let people who are struggling and fleeing all sorts of crazy mayhem apart from ukraine, of course, and you

think of the haitians and central americans and what they are doing to -- >> and more cuba immigrants coming to florida than what we have seen in years. >> what trump is take away something internationally recognized, and lawmakers are wanting to say let's do away with the asylum and forget that's a legal requirement and the democratic base saying we have so many other things we want them, and policing reform and voting rights and all the other things, and can we at least get immigration onboard. >> if they could wave a wand fast and solve the daca and take a little progress, and if you take the gang of eight, and forget about the 18 or 16 or whatever its but you couldn't get the same amount of democrats? >> i think on daca and that

pathway you could. >> but the border security -- >> yeah, that's my point. there's not the same acceptance of enforcement -- >> yeah, the pathways to citizenship and daca, if that was on the table, you have republicans that would still be for it depending on the caveats -- >> yeah, i hope so. immigration has been a problem and it's a problem for both parties and it has been, like health care, it switches to the democratic party to the republican party. >> do you think people want the politics? >> they do want the politics, and the problem is the suffering that occurs on the border and there's no difference in an asylum seeker in ukraine and from el salvador. >> yeah, we could have it

adjudicated. >> yeah, i alum seekers from different countries facing life or death circumstances and we should still stand as a beacon of liberty. the whole system is irrational. we don't have a system -- >> it doesn't fit the current times. i think that's fair -- i think everybody agrees it's not feeting the times. >> you have a president that basically stopping the immigration for most people across the world coming into the united states successfully in a way republicans would not have thought about doing in 2012 -- >> they would not have gotten it without covid. covid gave them the rational to do it and now some are going, great, don't ever lift it. >> that's the conundrum and challenge. >> it's a lie. if you look at history, we did the same thing to every immigrant to come to the united states, and america is better, stronger and more prosperous because of them.

>> most republicans would not say what you just said. >> let's end with both -- you have had senator murkowski and senator collins, and they say the press corps is broken, and i am thinking you are just discovering that now. we have been in nuclear war since garland? >> the reid rule was broken at that time. >> the unintended consequence is we don't have any more black robes, they are red and blue robes with the judges, and that's all anybody is seeing now. >> that's absolutely what people are seeing, and not what only lawmakers are seeing and what voters are seeing. they are obviously voting and thinking about what you think

about somebody like president trump, and they thought we would get red robes out of this. i was also struck by senator murkowski in particular when you heard her talk about her decision to support judge jackson. she sounded pained. she sounded like somebody who knew she was risking her political future with that vote, and that's interesting when you think about who judge jackson is, and people like romney, collins and murkowski are getting behind her and they feel like she will be somebody who is fair. to sound that pained voting for a person you feel like would be fair is telling. >> there's more price to pay if you look like a compromiser, right? i am out of time, i am being told. >> she did a good job and she will be the next supreme court justice. >> thank you all. appreciate the conversation. appreciate you being with us this hour. we will be back tomorrow with more meet the press daily, and

msnbc coverage will be right back with katy tur after this break. the guest list? digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop. what would you like the power to do?

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