the push on capitol hill to hold members of donald trump's inner circle accountable for the events surrounding january 6th. and the very latest with russia's invasion of ukraine. things get personal for vladimir putin as u.s. sanctions -- the u.s. sanctions his adult children and the world reels from russia's atrocities in ukraine. we'll tell you about the kremlin's new targets in the east after its failed attempt to seize that country's capital. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 7th. with us we have the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief at "politico" john that lamire. and u.s. correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, joins us. >> willie, i think this first story mika is about to lead, but why don't i kill hamlet in the first act here. >> it is what we do. >> it is what we do.

exit from east as russia shifts focus of attacks. it is remarkable. i looked at the map last night and they're gone. >> yeah. >> like they are gone from the kyiv area, north of kyiv. they're back in belarus. they're back -- i mean they're completely out of there. i know we're seeing so much coming at us every day, there are so many sides to the story every day, but think how historical that was. putin wanted to get the so-called nazi out of -- the jewish nazi out of kyiv, wanted to put his own puppet government in there and expected to be able to do it in two or three days. they are now back in retreat in belarus and russia, out of are. >> remember, it was just two months ago conventional wisdom was if putin decided to do this he could roll in there with his -- >> yeah. >> -- vastly out-manned army against the ukrainians, take kyiv, install a puppet, get rid of zelenskyy, all of those things were expected to happen.

>> for sure. >> by now the opposite has happened. it is not just the weakness and incompetence of the russian military, it is the extraordinary courage and bravery and confidence of the ukrainian military, ukrainian civilians with the backing of the west who turned the tide. >> yeah. >> right. >> they're rolling back and as they do that they're resorting to these hideous tactics which these are acts of desperation. it is not a great story to tell, but it is a story about the russian military being pushed out of a country they thought they would roll through a couple of months ago. >> jonathan, at the white house, of course, understands, this is fluid but as the russians escape from a failed attempt in kyiv and going back to lick their battle wounds, if they're not having to defend the capital that means there will be more ukrainians going down to try to break up the land bridge that connects russia with crimea. >> yeah. though there will be more russians in the east, there also

will be more ukrainians in the east, more members of the ukrainian military. certainly the white house feels heartened with where they are, to willie's point. the fierce resistance by the ukrainian military surprised so many. there were some of the top minds within the biden administration who also thought that the putin war machine would roll through ukraine in a matter of days and there was worry he wouldn't stop there but move to ex-soviet nations next. that, of course, a worry far reduced. >> right. >> as the russian military has been shown to be fraudulent, nowhere near what people thought it would be, the equipment not as good, the men not as well trained, certainly not as competent as they hoped. they recognize still war is far from over and they fear as we've been reporting this week that this will move into a long quagmire, a slog in the east, which is why there's such urgency to get more equipment to the ukrainians. when asked yesterday what they needed yesterday, the defense

minister said weapons, weapons, weapons. >> katty kay, it is chilling to read one story after another how the russians buy the lies about the nazification of ukraine. they buy the lies putin has been feeding them for years. >> you can't trust russian polls seven because the cost of saying anything anti-kremlin is high these days. it appears the approval of president putin and the war in ukraine appears to be growing. some 80% it appears approve of the war because they believe what they're listening to. russia has a mass media which many countries, including this one, don't. the common line on those state broadcast television channels and talk shows in the evening is that this is all the ukrainians' fault. it is staggering. it is black and white, what we

have seen from bucha they are blaming on ukrainians backed by british intelligence. they're saying it is the british intelligence that's particularly good at this kind of thing. look how awful it is that what the ukrainians are doing to their own people. i don't know if you remember, there was that video, that awful video of mariupol, a drone shot of mariupol that came out last week. that ran that evening on russian television. it is not they're not showing this. they're showing the same images that we are seeing in the west, but they're showing them saying this is what the ukrainian nazis are doing to their own people. they're bombing their own cities. they're killing their own people. in some cases they're saying they're actors. if that's the only news you get and you are only actually getting a few minutes of it. it is not just what they're hearing but it is they're getting very little news about this. it is treated as something normal, as not a big deal. they are getting a few minutes of it every evening. if you get that night after night you start to believe it. >> well, still to your point though, they may be moving east but ukraine is bracing for a

renewed russian offensive as moscow's forces shift their focus to the east while withdrawing from the country's north. the pentagon says around 24,000 russian troops have left areas around the capital of kyiv and the northern city of chernihiv in the last 24 hours. it warns those these troops have gone into belarus or russia perhaps to resupply, reorganize, and like will return to fight in the donbas region in eastern ukraine where russian forces have already stepped up their attacks, carrying out several missile strikes yesterday. >> amid those fears of a fresh russian offensive in eastern ukraine, officials there are urging civilians to evacuate immediately. authorities yesterday told people living in donetsk, luhansk and kharkiv they should learn as soon as possible while, quote, the possibility still exists.

ukraine's defense minister said that later people will come under fire and we won't be able to help them. it comes days after reports of war crimes against civilians as russian forces were retreating from the capital of kyiv and surrounding areas. the white house hit russia with new rounds of sanctions including some targeting the adult children of vladimir putin. the moves were announced yesterday in response to horrific scenes out of bucha. in addition to the sanctions against the children of putin and sergey lavrov, they are same at soviet banks. a new executive order signed by president biden prohibit it americans from making new business investments in russia. with me believing the war in ukraine entered a new phase, "the new york times" reports nato countries are divided on what the next steps should be. central european members like

poland and the baltic states want a total break with moscow, but other nations believe that russia cannot be easily subdued and that the war's outcome is likely to be messy. the other nations include turkey, france and germany. another reported point of disagreement is how seriously to take the kremlin in peace talks with ukraine. while some believe russia is looking for an avenue to escape the war, u.s. officials are reportedly skeptical that moscow is willing to make concessions. >> there are also real complications right now, jonathan lemire. the white house, while they're saying publicly they're going to let ukraine have their wishes in the negotiations and it is ukraine's peace talks, it is ukraine's country, at the same time we are hearing from not only officials inside the united states but also inside of nato that they're just not going to be comfortable with ukraine giving up too many concessions. vladimir putin cannot see this

as a victory in any sense. so while they're saying this is up to ukraine, certainly they will be putting pressure on to make sure the terms are not too favorable for putin. >> yes, we are seeing tension play out right now in the nation's capital over this. my colleagues and i worked on a story this week about sanctions. more and more members of congress, including democrats, want the sanctions on russia left in place as long as putin is in power. that, of course, since we don't see an actual end game for him leaving complicates peace talks. for instance, if russia, and this is what a white house official who expressed concern about what lawmakers are asking for, if russia is saying, look, we will have a cease-fire, we will end the war, but one of our conditions needs to be the sanctions lifted. if president zelenskyy comes to the u.s. and says, we want you to do that, can the u.s. say no to him if he is saying this is what my country needs right now. that underscores the tension because there is concern from other parts of europe in particularly that if putin is able to walk away with this,

able to claim some sort of victory with his power largely intact, maybe he ramps up in a couple of years and does sig like this again whether it is ukraine or somewhere else. that will be tough. what sort of state do you leave moscow in when this war eventually does end? >> all right. joinings now is a 26-year veteran of the cia serving in both iraq and afghanistan and is one of the agency's most decorated field officers. he is also the author of "clarity in crisis, leadership lessons from the cia." >> mika, you can tell he is one of the most decorated because he is wearing the vest they wear. we ask the fans to look past the vest and listen to the wisdom of -- >> he's so brilliant. he's that guy.

>> we have a lot to talk about but i want to start with the mass expulsion of so-called diplomats. it is something quite significant and it is not getting a lot of play. tell us about it. >> it is extraordinary. in my career, which spanned almost 30 years, i have never seen expulsions in these numbers. "the economist" put a number over 400 yesterday, and these are russian intelligence officers posted in europe. it is extraordinary because for a long time, you know, when i was overseeing operations for the cia in europe and eurasia we considered europe to be russia's playground. they operated with almost impunity, whether it is assassination operations, successful and unsuccessful, you know, the russians had no bounds there. it is an important step because it is going to degrade the russian's ability to conduct human intelligence operations. that's their ability to spot, assess, develop, handle and recruit penetrations of western countries. they still will have illegal

network, those individuals not under official cover, but ultimately it is a good step. i commend the biden administration. i'm quite confident it was coordinated from washington. it is things we have done in the past but certainly not in those numbers. it is an important step. look, the intelligence war is heating up right now. >> mark, as you say it is one piece of the large package so i'm curious of your assessment of the pressure the united states and the west has put on russia in support of ukraine, the expulsion of the diplomats, the sanctions package, the weapons flooding in, the gathering and organizing of allies in europe in this effort, how is the united states performing let's say over the last month or so and what more would you like to see done? >> i think it is extraordinary. the administration deserves a lot of credit but i don't think it is necessarily enough, because right now what ukraine needs is assistance in the east. obviously where the fight is going to be shifting. also in the south to protect odesa and that means more weapons systems and more advanced weapons systems like

multiple launch rocket systems and anti-ship missiles. we have to keep the consistent flow of arms, what has been going on, and perhaps much more advanced weapons. i'm not sure if we have actually reached that sweet spot of maximum economic and military pressure. you know, it doesn't go enough that would cause a serious escalation. i think we can do more and i come back each time to a famous engagement in 2018 where members of the joint special operations command, the u.s. military, former secretary defense mattis in testimony said something that was extraordinary. he said he gave the order to annihilate them. guess what, the russian response was nothing. i think we can do more. we have to be very cognizant of escalation, but the ukrainians are depending on us. you know, this is the great fight of our time right now. >> james "mad dog" mattis,

indeed. >> i was going to say he earned the name. >> a name he hated but perhaps deserved. mark, talk to us. if indeed this becomes a sustained fight in the east, you know, the u.s. and the west feel that russia is -- certainly, look, they're in full-on retreat from kyiv, but eventually some of the assets will get their ways to the donbas. ukraine is able to do the same. the fight will be centered there and officials i talk to say it could be months if not longer. we heard from general milley suggesting it could be years. what is your sense as to how terrible a slog this could be? >> well, look, again, look back to history. unfortunately, you know, vladimir putin and russia will be patient. you know, they are able to sustain kind of these long campaigns in smaller areas. so you go back to the war in chechnya, certainly the russian air campaign in syria. these didn't last month, these lasted years. i think we have to be cog any

cognizant. i get worried because there's a sense of let's do just enough for the ukrainians to get to the negotiating table. i look back at my career as an operator with the cia, when i dealt with foreigners on the ground. i want to look my counterpart in the face and say, look, we will give you enough not just to help you at the negotiating table but to help you win. so i think we have to have the same type of resolve that the ukrainians will have. if we have to sustain this, you know, the support to ukraine for years on end, i think it is something we really should do. >> mark, general mccaffrey was on the show the other morning with us, and he made a stunning kind of comparison, which was that during the height of the iraq war the u.s. was sending something like $9 billion a month worth of military supplies to iraq. so far i think there's been $2 billion spent since the beginning of this year, just over a billion since the

beginning of the war itself, so a lot less. there's clearly a lot more that the west could be spending in ukraine. we seem to be at a pivotal moment where the russians are pulled back. the assumption is they're pulled back in order to launch another offensive in the east, possibly to try to push further back again into the country. how much can we turn on the spigot fast and how much willingness do you think there is in washington but also in the western alliance, the nato alliance to really ramp up significantly so that the ukrainians can take advantage of the pause? >> sure. and i think that we're doing that. i mean, again, in terms of logistics look at the difference between russian logistics which is a debacle and the alliance. it may is a several days if not weeks for us to get the right weapon systems in but i think we're doing that. i hope we don't get wobbly on this. there are divides in europe on how much we should push, but i think, look, between the intelligence community and our

special operations forces, you know, we are built to do this and we can certainly push the weapon systems in. it has to be a needs-based assessment. our ukrainian counterparts will have military and intelligence community talks on what they actually need, you know, versus the theater of some of the more advanced systems like migs. migs would have been great but i think it is probably off the table now. we have to give the ukrainians what they need. they are giving us lists and we should take these seriously and provide these weapon systems and, again, not get wobbly. again, have the patience to see this through. the ukrainians, the allies have a boot on putin's neck right now. you know, we shouldn't take it off. we have to be cognizant of escalation, but the fight is in ukraine. no one is talking about introduction of nato troops right now, so let's keep the weapons flow going and that is the number one issue on the agenda for the biden administration in my view. >> mark, once again, thank you so much for your insight this morning. we will see you soon.

to our other major headlines this morning, the full senate is set to vote on the nomination of judge ketangi brown jackson to the supreme court today. nbc news reports senate majority leader chuck schumer expects a final confirmation vote around 1:45 this afternoon. judge jackson is expected to pass with bipartisan support after three republican senators crossed party lines to back her. >> we're going to talk much more about that historic moment coming up. meanwhile, the house is moving forward with contempt of congress charges against former trump administration officials peter navarro and dan scavino. lawmakers voted 220 to 203 to pass a resolution referring the former aides to the justice department for their refusal to comply with subpoenas from the january 6th select committee. representative liz cheney and adam kinzinger were the only republicans to vote in favor. the committee said navarro, a trade adviser in the trump administration, and scavino, who

was white house deputy chief of staff, played key roles in the ex-president's effort to overturn the election. he published a book last year. the chair and vice chair made the case for contempt charges on the house floor. >> it doesn't matter that if they were a father, a mother, a sister or brother, had children. if they break the law, they break the law. no one is above the law, and that's what the point we're trying to make. >> there is no such thing in america as the privileges of the crown. every citizen has a duty to comply with a subpoena. too many republicans are once again ignoring the rulings of the courts, as many of them did in the run-up to january 6th. mr. speaker, the tale of what happened following the 2020

election resulting in the violence of january 6th is a tale of stunning deceit. it is a tale of lies about our election and contempt for the rulings of our courts. the election claims made by donald trump were so frivolous and so unfounded that the president's lead lawyer did not just lose these cases, he lost his license to practice law. >> this is the third time the house has voted to send criminal contempt charges of trump loyalists to the department of justice. first, you remember, was steve bannon who faces trial this summer. the justice department is still reviewing referral of former chief of staff mark meadows the house sent in december. a third referral for former staffer jeffrey clark was voted out of committee but clark set for an interview before a house vote was taken. in that interview he pled the fifth more than 100 times. jonathan lemire, just to

underline a point, peter navarro won't show up for the hearing yet he has written a book about the plan, like you have written a book called "the big lie" coming out in july. >> i can't wait to read that. >> it will be great. which talks about this very issue. he goes on tv again and again and again proudly describing the plan to stage a coup and yet he won't sit before the committee. >> no, it is, and that's why there is such pressure being placed on the part of justice to do something about this, do something with the contempt of congress. there's been growing impatience even in the highest levels of biden world saying attorney general merrick garland and his team need to take it more seriously, to send this message because they feel like navarro and his like are just flaunting this, that they're not going to cooperate yet they are still going to appear on tv shows and they're going to write a book about it. scavino is someone who handled the ex-president's twitter account. he is another one they want to talk to, almost certainly won't ever show up for that. we have a new interview with the former president out today with "the washington post" saying he denies all responsibility for

the violence and says it was nancy pelosi's fault and other nonsense like that. >> right, i forgot he did that. >> and disputing other results of the election still ahead on "morning joe," a new u.s. shipment of javelin missiles should arrive in ukraine in a matter of day. we will speak live with pentagon press secretary john kirby. plus, we will play for you former president obama's comments about the war and talk with jeffrey goldberg who will be joining us. also new york city mayor eric adams joins the table to talk about his first 100 days in office. you are watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

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♪♪ brooklyn band. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> mika. >> uh-huh. >> willie and i were just talking. >> okay. >> there are some advantages to having no friends. >> there is. oh, yeah, totally, and to being anti-social and saying no to everything that we're invited to. >> we were going to go to this thing last week but we had this other thing we had to do. >> we really didn't have anything. >> we did too. >> no, we had nothing. >> yes, sometimes it is better just to kind of -- >> stay home. >> work, go home. >> i had a dear friend that once said to me, every time i have left my apartment i have regretted it. >> nothing good happens. >> and i think this speaks to this. >> several white house officials and members of congress -- is it okay to laugh?

>> no, no. >> let's get the story first. >> what story? i'm confused. >> members of congress have tested positive of covid-19 after attending the grid iron dinner last weekend. attorney general merrick garland and commerce secretary gina raimondo are the latest positive cases after they attended the high-profile event. most of those who tested positive say they're experiencing mild or no symptoms. that's good. >> really good. >> the grid iron club dinner returned to washington after a two-year hiatus because of the pandemic. they should have waited a third. >> jonathan lemire, a couple of things. first of all, you say a lot of members of the press, they're calling it the green bay sweep, like a whole slew of reporters have got this. again, nothing serious so that's good. also, gridiron talking about possible getting rid of the group hug in the center of the room. >> oh, yeah. >> at the end of the event. >> next year. >> part of the tradition they

should abandon. it is coming under scrutiny there. two cabinet members as well as members of congress, other white house officials, about two dozen reports have all tested positive, come down with covid in the last few days stemming from this dinner and another event held a few days earlier. no reports of hospitalization, but some are quite sick. it is a reminder that covid is still here. >> yeah. >> and cases coming and, unfortunately, seeing cases tick back up, particularly in the north east, this new subvariant of omicron has seemingly arrived. also, there was no testing requirement ahead of this dinner, which is an issue. the white house correspondent's dinner held later in the month, i think they are going to require testing to prevent a similar -- >> we had to. >> attorney general merrick garland had a public event about an hour before and he had tested positive so they were out and about. >> so two universities, georgetown and johns hopkins, are reinstating mask mandates following a surge of covid

infections among students. i would take johns hopkins very seriously, and georgetown honestly. they're on the cutting-edge of medical research. georgetown officials say the indoor mask mandate will go into effect on the main and medical campuses starting today. students are required to wear a mask in all classrooms, residences and dining halls with exception of eating and drinking. both schools will test undergraduates for covid through the end of the month. the new surge of covid-19 cases is partly new to the new ba.2 only crone subvariant which is now the dominant strain in the u.s. this is interesting. we will be following this. >> we will. katty, it looks like this is a mid atlantic think. we just had three stories, washington, d.c., georgetown, also obviously johns hopkins up in baltimore. >> yeah. depends where people are testing. actually, i am a member of the gridiron but i didn't manage to go on saturday and now i'm feeling i dodged something of an

infection spread event. i think it is partly to do with testing. it is also to do, you know, people are not boosted. we're well vaccinated but a lot of people in this country didn't get the boosters, particularly in that age group n the student age groups because they felt they didn't need them. you know, they had all of their shots. this seemed to be behind them. as jonathan was saying, you are getting sick but it is mild. so the booster rates are still low. now they've started instituting fourth boosters for people over the age of 50. in the end we have to decide, are we just going to accept that if you go to a big event, and i have been to the gridiron, there's no ventilation, or if you are in a classroom or a student dining hall without much ventilation the chances are that you could get it but it won't lead to hospitalization. you probably will have to stay home for a few days because you do feel pretty sick, and we will just have to live with that. >> yeah. >> otherwise, what, we are just not going to do indoor events anymore. >> i do think we have to live with it, and the thing is if you

are boosted, if you had vaccine, if you are boosted, you are fine. you know, mika and i travel pretty regularly, washington and new york, through delta, through omicron. we went to events. sometimes they required masks, sometimes they didn't require masks and we have no doubt, in part it was probably because we were boosted and also maybe because we were moving around and our resistance was higher. now the boosters suck, you get them, you don't feel well for a couple of days if you are old like me, but aren't we up to like the 12th boost, didn't they say where you can get a new boost or something like that? >> you can get another one. dr. fauci made the point amid all of this in the last couple of days that they wear off, that the booster wears off and you have to come back for more of it. we joked about never leaving your apartment but the world is opening up. new york city is back, you can go to a dinner, there will be a

fund-raiser event, a charity event, and people are back doing those things. as captainie said, how much risk are we willing to talk about. >> i will tell you my family over the past couple of weeks, we got out, everybody is getting out, the masks are coming off. nobody got covid. i tell you what, we all got the flu. i mean it is like, fine, get out there. it is one of the things i think that china really is grappling with right now. they had a zero covid tolerance policy and it is devastating their economy. hong kong, they have problems with hong kong. they shut down entire cities. we need to get on with our lives. we need to keep moving forward. get the booster! go on out, and the odds are, you know, overwhelming that not only will you not be hospitalized, you won't have a serious sickness. >> the images out of shanghai

are brutal. 26 million people being tested, separating parents from children to do so. public officials i talked to in the u.s. said they're worried about the next few weeks because the new variant, more contagious, is here and it comes at a time as mask mandates have been lifted, as boosters, though effective, they only last a month, a couple of months and people might be due for another shot. >> and boosters aren't really lasting. >> that is a concern. they're only eight to ten weeks of effectiveness, but there's home. warm weather around the corner. officials said though the next month is dicey, once we get to spring, summer, the virus fades. >> we have to stay prepared. when people say vigilant, people say, put 15 masks on and don't do anything. people need to go out and do things. again, you contrast us with what is going on in china and the fact is that we have moved through delta, we have moved through omicron. yeah, there are tragedies, i

mean people are dying and it is very sad, but we just don't have the option to shut down the country. >> no. >> we also don't have the option to cancel all indoor events anymore. you want to wear a mask, wear a mask. >> exactly. >> it is fine. >> and if it is a really stuffie, tight event, i would use common sense. i just walked into some places and thought, there's no reason to be this close to people. >> common sense measures like masks or require a test. >> yeah. >> there are ways to do this safely. >> yeah. all right. . coming up, florida's governor is threatening to take away special privileges from disney in an ongoing fight over controversial legislation that is literally designed to poke at democrats. >> why is he going -- i mean seriously, does this guy just have to make -- he does this k through three thing. >> he is an action junky. >> he is an action junky but now you are taking on mickey mouse? >> i don't know.

>> why? by the thing it is so funny. like the media, oh, they're banning any talking about people. it was k through three. >> not talking about that, so -- >> republicans are masterful in setting up something schools weren't doing anyway and now he has a full-blown culture war. >> exactly. >> good for you. >> that's the democrats taking the bait. plus, senator tom cotton doubles down on his claim judge ketanji brown jackson would have defended the nazis at nuremberg. what is wrong with him. >> he needs to take a walk in the ozarks and relax, take fresh air. willie. air. willie cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ ♪ i've been to: pittsburgh, parkersburg, ♪ ♪ gravelbourg, colorado, ♪ ♪ ellensburg, cedar city, dodge city, what a pity. ♪

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i think disney has gotten over its skis on this. look, there's policy disputes and that's fine, but when you are trying to impose a woke ideology on our state, you know, we view that as a significant threat. this wokeness will destroy this

country if we let it run unabated. >> my god. >> yeah, it will destroy, you know, because we are talking about 0.003% of the population. this will destroy our country. look at people on both sides. seriously? just both sides, nonstop talk, nonstop talk about 0.003% of america's population. >> and this is how democrats will lose. >> seriously, this will destroy our country. we are hearing it on both. yes, it is what-aboutism, because the incredible focus on these issues is fodder for people like. >> tension between disney and florida governor are rising after they criticized the new florida law which prevents teachers from discussioning sexual orientation with children

in kindergarten through third grade. >> they were talking to them about transitioning, right? oh, wait, no, no, they don't do that. but in third grade they did, right? >> no. >> no. >> i have like 87 kids last count, never happened. willie, any of your kids from kindergarten through third great. >> that starts in middle school to the best of my recollection. >> honestly, there are a lot of very upset people about this. >> it is a phony set-up. >> you are being set up. >> in response desantis wants to revoke disney's special privileges. since 1967, 54 years, disney world has been allowed to act essentially as its own government under the ready creek improvement act. >> i never heard that. >> it regulates its own buildings, roads and essentially provides services a county

government typically would. if desantis successfully revokes this statute, disney world would come under regulation of two florida counties. >> so their cotton candy waterfalls would come under florida environmental regulation. >> joining us now -- >> i was asking willie a question. >> i was starting to say governor desantis is willing to use the moment to signal -- >> everybody is virtue signaling. >> but attack an institution that employs 82,000 people in his state. he is going after them to make a point. >> let's bring in national reporter of nbc news mark caputo who knows a thing or two about the state of florida. all attorney general for dade county. didn't his staff help write

this? >> his staff did write an exemption in his anti-social media law for disney. so take was a major carve-out for the mouse. now the governor is saying, oh, we can't have special carve outs for the mouse. you know, desantis is trolling the 2021 version of himself because this just happened last year. you know, this special improvement district has been around since 1967, as you say, and it has never been a real issue for florida leaders until after disney started complaining about the don't say gay bill and announced it was imposing moratorium on campaign donations. so the timing is a bit suspect. >> so, mark, you governor florida so closely. you understand the politics of the state so well. for our national audience, what is going on here? what is governor desantis doing? >> what desantis is doing, what you are sort of seeing nationally with a lot of conservative figures such as him, he's willing to give special interests and

businesses, special interest and business carve-outs. he is willing to have the business of the legislature be the business of private business, but he wants them to stay out of the culture war. if it is between -- if it is a choice between the two, which is the sort of libertarian, republican hands-off government, let business be business, or engaging in the culture war and there has to be a choice, he's going with culture. so disney sand in the eyes of desantis here was stepping out and putting its head up and criticizing its bill. i understand for desantis, this is sort of the fight he wants to have. this gives him an opportunity to have a foil, a big contributor he gets to now say, oh, we're not going to be doing the building of special interests and, yeah, sure, i took their money, but i'm not going to do everything they said. i'm not going to jump when they said jump and i'm not going to ask how high. >> hey, marc, jonathan lemire. >> hey, jonathan. >> if it is desantis versus disney, don't we like disney's chances? they're a huge employer in the

state with all of the money, a huge influence, what recourse could they have? >> they could underwrite the lawsuit to defeat the legislation we were talking about, but it is being related pro bono by a number of lgbtq groups. but they could withhold what they did, withhold their contributions. i have a suspicion they will be back because disney, as dave knows, is a big power player. one of the reasons it got a big carve- out in desantis's tech bill was at the last minute in 2021 they said, hey, we think the big tech crackdown bill might apply to us, do something. behind the scenes everyone jumped to make disney happy. that used to be the normal course of business in the florida legislature. what happened with the most recent legislation was different in that the company, the new ceo after initially saying, hey, we will stay out of this fight suddenly decided to get involved in the fight and they suddenly lost and all of the sudden the

conservatives of the state and perhaps in the nation began turning on disney. you are seeing some of the fall-out of that subsequently. i don't see disney running a candidate against ron desantis, but at the same time i don't see them contributing much more money to him either. >> so, dave, this is such a phony issue. i have lived in florida for a very long time as you know. i have had kids going to school in florida. i have had four kids in florida, and i can say with quite -- with confidence nobody, none of my kindergartners, first graders, second or third graders were ever taught about trans issues, were ever taught about their sexuality, about fluidity, about whatever this bill is supposed to stop. was there really a public outcry, parents demanding that kindergartners not be taught about these issues? because, again, they never were

before, from my children or anybody that i knew. >> yeah, joe, this bill is only about firing up the gop base. this is politics above public policy. it is a solution in search of a problem because sex education is already banned in florida up to the fifth grade, just like it is in most other states. but there are some repercussions from this bill. there are some reports out there that some cash-strapped schools are already ditching some of their lgbtq books in their libraries and reportedly some places are peeling off their rainbow safe space stickers from window. that's a concern. because the bill, though the people focus on its application of k through three, there's another part of the bill that says any parent can see a school district if they believe that the instruction, the discussion is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students. so what does that mean? it is very vague and it opens schools up to so many lawsuits that that's the problem.

it chills speech and it could have lasting repercussions, and then the benefit, of course, is for desantis so he can run for president in 2024. he is in this maga arms race against greg abbott. he is clearly looking beyond his reelection this year to a presidential campaign and he doesn't care who gets in his way, even his former mentor donald trump. >> all right. nbc's marc caputo and state attorney for palm beach county david aronberg. thank you both for being on today. still ahead, people who reside in russia or belarus won't be allowed to run in this years's boston marathon. plus, we are hours away from a historic vote on the senate floor that is expected to confirm judge ketangi brown jackson to the supreme court with bipartisan support. but one republican senator, tom cotton, is refusing to back down from his widely condemned comments that judge jackson -- even fox news thought it was a

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welcome back to "morning joe." 6:53 in the morning at times square on a thursday morning. the 86th masters gets under way in a couple of hours actually, and with tiger woods. yesterday a packed gallery lined the course for tiger's last nine holes of practice. that's a practice gallery. tiger was among the pros having fun on hole 16, a perfect showcase for skipping the ball over the water. i don't know how they do that. here is tommy fleetwood rolling his shot just shy of the pin, but it was fleet wood's 4-year-old son who stole the show yesterday supporting a caddie outfit and sprinting down

the fairways chasing dad's galls. >> oh, my goodness. >> tiger tees off at about 10:34 this morning. >> all right. coming up, we will get back to the war in ukraine. pentagon press secretary retired rear admiral john kirby joins us at the top of the hour with the latest intelligence on russian troop movements. . plus, new york mayor eric adams is with us in studio as he marks 100 days in office. "morning joe" is coming right back. thinkorswim® by td ameritrade is more than a trading platform. it's an entire trading experience. with innovation that lets you customize interfaces, charts

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bravo, bravecto! bravo! ♪♪ and just like that it is the top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 7th. "politico's" jonathan lemire and the bbc's katty kay are still with us. joining the table we have msnbc

contributor mike barnicle. mike, it is like you never left. >> no, you never left, mike. >> yeah, you didn't. that's awful. >> i was here with jonathan lemire. >> why would you do that? >> a tremendous appearance. >> yeah, the numbers prove it. >> did you see the way the mets came in? >> yeah. >> change television. opening day. anything happening today? everybody rained out? >> there will be games played today. as lamire and i were talking, you know, at 5:55 this morning. >> that's not right. >> i'm grateful for baseball being back. >> yes. >> a 162-game schedule. >> it was really in doubt about a month ago, so let's be grateful it is here. >> let's get to the news. what's with the guardian's name? >> you mean the indians? >> and washington, what are they calling themselves. >> commandos or commanders, something like that. >> you know, the thing is -- >> commanders. >> i understand the redskins had to change their name, i totally get that. why didn't they just stay like

the washington football team? i would have rather had that generic thing rather than the commanders. >> i agree, and the cleveland indians. it could affect national security. >> okay. >> watch out. >> one of the biggest cleveland indians fans, steve rashetti whose office is close to the president, this is going to affect him. >> it could affect him. >> let's get to the news. >> i don't understand the unequal application of this stuff because, you know, the atlanta braves do the tommy hawk chop or whatever they call that chop or whatever, you know. then there's some teams that don't and then -- who was i watching? oh, the chiefs, the chiefs are still doing it. >> florida state does it. >> florida state goes over the top there. >> chiefs at arrowhead stadium. >> so what is -- i don't get the

unequal application of this. >> you can't stop the fans from doing this and there are certain parts of the country that don't care what activists tell them to do is part of that as well. >> okay. are we done? >> just the guardians? i mean call them the cleveland baseball team. >> i agree. >> just really, come on. >> okay. >> that's all i have to say, mika. >> all right. >> thank you so much. >> we are going to get to the headlines now. a new shipment of javelin missiles should be in ukraine in a matter of days. that's what a senior defense official tells nbc news. on tuesday the president approved another $100 million worth of anti-tank missiles. the defense official says it typically takes four to six days to get the weapons to ukrainian fighters on the ground. nbc's andrea mitchell asked secretary of state tony blinken about the arming of the ukrainians. >> put this in perspective, between the united states and other allies and partners, for

every russian tank in ukraine we have provided or will soon provide ten anti-tank systems. ten for every single russian tank. so in terms of what they need to act quickly and act effectively to deal with the planes that are firing at them from the skies, the tanks that are trying to destroy their cities from the ground, they have the tools that they need. they're going to keep getting them and we will keep sustaining that. >> we are also learning that the u.s. military has trained some ukrainian military members on how to use switchblade drones. >> now, you don't want one of these coming at you, by the way. >> the defense official says a very small ukrainians were here already in the u.s. for military training. ukraine has stopped russia in its tracks when it comes to the kremlin's attempts to seize that country's capital, but now russia is aiming at the east with what could be another indiscriminate offensive against military targets and the civilian population.

moscow's pull-out from the north is stunning. the a.p. calls it, quote, a defeat for the ages. the pentagon says around 24,000 russian troops have left areas around the capital of kyiv and the northern city of chernihiv in the past 24 hours. >> mike, this is incredible, this is absolutely incredible. it reminds me of that line from the old jackson brown song, "warriors in love." last night i heard, the russians escaped while we watching but this is history. the fact that vladimir putin thought he was going to seize the capital of ukraine in two to three days, that he was going to kill zelenskyy. you know, they had the hit list. they were going to go through kyiv and murder leaders there. they were going to put their own puppet government in and putin expected to be running ukraine from moscow within three, four, five days.

they have been chased out of that part of ukraine. i think the pentagon official is right, it is a victory for the ages. i know we have a lot of war still going on. i know there's suffering, but just in terms of this military campaign, absolutely nobody expected this. >> you know, the russian army showed up around kyiv early on and they had packed their dress uniforms for a scheduled victory parade once they took kyiv within three days. that was their expectation. now it gets even more dangerous i would think. they're reassembling in the east. odesa is a clear target. if they get odesa they can cut off the ukrainian economy, and the russian -- the russian philosophy, the russian playbook will not change and it will get worse i would bet given putin's behavior and his isolation from reality. the playbook has always been destroy and terrorize. we have seen the destruction. everyone has seen the films, and

terrorizing and killing the population. the casualty numbers, we still don't know an accurate count out of mariupol. >> there's no celebration in ukraine or kyiv because of the atrocities we have seen but here is a quote from the mayor of kyiv. he says, the capital is working, private business is springing to life. more and more cafes, shops, service stations, other private enterprise are opening. there are images. citizens in kyiv cleaning the streets themselves, planting flowers in the park, trying to show they're on their way back, a long way to go based on everything we have shown our viewers in the last few days. meanwhile, the troops that have gone into belarus are back to russia to resupply and likely will return to fight in the donbas area of eastern ukraine where russian forces have stepped up attacks carrying out missile strikes yesterday. the russian forces appear to be escalating attempts to attack civilians with a high-tech land

mine. "the new york times" reports ukrainian bomb technicians discovered mines near kharkiv. traditional land wires explode after a trip wire is stepped on. but these will detonate when someone is walking by and can tell the difference between humans and animals. joining us, pentagon press secretary, retired rear admiral john kirby. good morning. good to have you with us. >> thank you. >> give us your assessment, if you would. we have been talking about the retreat of the russian troops from kyiv. a bit of good news, but on the retreat we have seen some of the worst atrocities on the european continent in a century in places like bucha. what is the state of the russian military at this time? >> we believe they are reinforcing and resupplying these troops for later redeployment back inside ukraine. we are very concerned about the

development. it is good for the folks of kyiv and certainly, obviously a defeat for the russian forces there who had tried to capture the capital, but they aren't going home. they're going to get ready for future fighting. i think mike had a really good point just a minute ago. because they're going to be able to concentrate their efforts now in a smaller geographical area, an area they've been fighting over for eight years, we would expect the violence is only going to get worse, the fighting is going to get more intense as the russians now try to redouble their efforts in a much smaller area of ukraine. we are very concerned about this development. we are watching it. we haven't seen the reinforcements come back into ukraine from the northern regions, but we will be seeing -- we will be monitoring as close as we can. >> admiral, what can you tell us about the pentagon's assessment of what happened around kyiv? why did the russians fail so miserably, so historically? >> here is a couple of things

for you. one, they didn't have enough force. to take a capital city the size of kyiv they would have needed tens of thousands of more troops than they dedicated to the effort. two, they didn't properly prepare for sustain going their forces in the feel, logistics, fuel, food, ammunition, that vaunted convoy that never reached them. number three, they didn't count on the ukrainian resistance and how stiff and strong it would be. number four was just command and control. the russians have a more siloed military than what we would normally consider a modern military should have. commanders don't necessarily talk to one another. they had trouble communicating with one another. they weren't integrating air and ground elements the way you would think a joint force would. they suffered from their own failures but they also ran into a much, much stiffer ukrainian resistance than they anticipated. >> it is katty kay here. as the russians prepare to regroup, resupply and we assume come into the east of the country. >> yes.

>> is the west going to give the ukrainians what they need for the next stage of the fight? they may need more offensive weapons if they're going to try to take advantage of this pause. we've been hearing just increasing frustration from ukrainian officials. they're not really hiding it anymore, that they feel they're not getting what they need. what are they going to get now and are they going to get more of the offensive weapons? >> i will tell you, cattie, we're in constant communication with the ukrainians. they had a very good, candid discussion about capabilities. the secretary made sure that minister reznikov knew we would continue to provide as much as we can as fast as we can and get them the systems we know they're using effectively. that's the javelin, stingers, millions of rounds of small arms and ammo has been provided to them in recent weeks and months and it doesn't get a lot of fanfare in the press, and i

understand that, but it is the tool they use the most every single day. that will continue to flow in. now, as for larger systems we are working with allies and partners, literally every day, to see if they can provide some of these long-range air defense systems we know the ukrainians know how to use and are using very effectively because we don't have them in our stocks. we are talking with other allies and partners about other larger systems. some countries talked about potential providing tanks, t-72 tanks that the ukrainians know how to use. we're certainly going to be encouraging of that as well. >> and let's just stop for one minute, jonathan. i know you have a question for the admiral. we talk about what has happened in kyiv. we have talked about the extraordinary bravery that the ukrainians have shown. let's also be really blunt here. a lot of criticism focused towards this president, focused towards this administration, focused towards nato for not doing enough.

what's happened in ukraine would have never happened if we had not been flooding the zone with u.s. weapons, with nato weapons, with russian -- old russian weapons that former warsaw countries had. that's just the reality of it. nobody is going to stop and say that now. it is always -- and i understand this is how democracies work and this is why we're vibrant. nobody stops like for a victory lap. we are also asking what can you do next. let's ask that question. how do we help the ukrainians even more? but this remarkable, historic retreat would have never happened without the support of nato countries. i think everybody from the baltic states through germany through france, england, the united states, everybody should be thanked for what they've done and now let's prepare for the next phase. >> it is a victory for intelligence agencies.

>> oh, my, yes. >> because the u.s. saw this coming for months and put up warning for months which conditioned european partners that may have been reluctant to come out, but with a steady drum beat of hey, this invasion is coming, this invasion is coming, and helped prime them for the supply. admiral, when there was an expectation that russia may have military success, part was because there was an expectation they would unleach a devastating wave of cyberattacks yet it has not happened. it has not happened at all. why does the pentagon thinks that's the case? what happened to them? >> i tell you, one of the things to go back to what you were talking about a minute ago, in addition to the material being responsible, the material that joe rightly says came from so many other places is the training that we have done with the ukrainians over the last eight years, the united states, great britain, other allies as well, training proved crucial.

part of that training is on cyber. we have worked with the ukrainians to help them become more resilient, more capable in cyber space, and i think it is playing out here. it may be a factor why you haven't seen devastating cyberattacks by the russias because the ukrainians were prepared for it. the russians have not been able to completely squelch ukrainian air defense because they're nimble in how they use it, when they use it, moving them around and, of course, because so many allies and partners are trying to help bolster their inventory. >> admiral, it seems that the next great theater of war in ukraine will be in and around the east with the objective eventually of establishing land bridges down there and getting into odesa. odesa is threatened partially, largely by ships at sea, russian ships at sea. so two-part question here.

what supplies can we get quickly enough and lethally enough to odesa, the trick of getting it to odesa, which is a long way from the polish border. >> right. >> and secondly, has there been any discussion of a potential blockade of the russian ships? in other words the ships that are there now in ukrainian waters, a blockade to prevent them from getting out. in other words you are here, you are going to stay here until you die? >> yeah. so, mike, what we have not seen any sign of an imminent assault on odesa by the russians. they have economically block aided the port. you are right about that. we think the ukrainians have mined maritime areas around odesa to try to keep the russians at bay and largely it has worked. they've put some surface combatants not far from odesa to block economic flow in and out but they haven't attempted a landing there, and they weren't

able to take mykoliev. we will let them decide where they want the systems to go but the focus is on the east in the donbas area where the ukrainians will be concentrating their efforts as well. that's where they will want the systems. that's one of the reasons why we authorized that $100 million of several hundred javelins because we know they will need them in the eastern area. so i'm not -- nobody is writing off odesa. we understand how important it is, but right now the bigger threat is more towards the northeast, towards mariupol and north of mariupol. >> admiral, finally breaking news from "the washington post" right now, germany's foreign intelligence services have intercepted radio communications which russian soldiers discuss how they indiscriminately kill ukrainians in two separate

communications. russian soldiers described how they would question soldiers as well as civilians and then proceed to shoot them. how are we gathering -- how are we gathering war crime evidence, even though we're not in ukraine itself? what are we doing? >> we are working with the intelligence community, not just the defense intelligence but intelligence community across the interagency as well as the state department to document and collect evidence as best we can of these war crimes. we have said now for more than a couple of weeks that we have clear evidence that the russians committed war crimes, continue to commit war crimes. we will participate in a larger interagency investigation to document the evidence. i don't want to get into into detail but we will provide the evidence that we can. it is not just the united states, other nations will be doing the same thing.

russia needs to be held accountable for the war crimes. s you don't have to look further than your television set to see how devastating and brutal the russians are being to the ukrainian people. we want to make sure it is all collected and categorized for the investigations going forward. >> pentagon press secretary, retired rear admiral john kirby. thank you for your time this morning. we will talk to you again soon. thank you. >> yes, sir. the boston marathon has banned runners residing in belarus or russia from participating in the race. the head of the organization said, quote, we must do what we can to support the people of ukraine. citizens of russia or belarus who do not reside in other country will be allowed to compete but can't run under either country's flag. >> if they get there from russia, mike, can they run if they don't compete under the flag? >> if they don't live there. >> but if you live there -- what do you think of that idea?

>> i think it is a great idea. >> what about medvedev, should he be able to play at wimbledon? >> no. >> why not? >> because he is from russia, he is carrying the country's flag every time he hits the ball across the net. no, they have to pay a price. >> what about the olympics? i mean when we -- you know, i mean some of my clearest memories from the olympics was when the russians would steal the basketball game in '72. but don't we want to -- >> i understand they cheat. but, still, for a guy like medvedev, who we have had on the show, it is not his fault he was born in russia. i mean these runners, i mean --? i think sports are supposed to be a place where we're not, you know, that everybody can show up peaceful, symbolic, soft

diplomacy. >> russia hosted the winter cup in 2018. this year they won't be participating but it is a tricky calculation. probably the biggest star in the national hockey league is a friend of vladimir putin's, and yet he was asked about it -- you know, as the war begin and he said i don't want there to be war and he hasn't said anything since. it is a case by case decision on this. >> you also have the dubai tournament right after the invasion. you had the russian player, i think he is the number two player in russia, go over and wrote on the -- >> no war. >> ovechkin, if they either ask or complain about it and ask why, tell 'em to watch their tv sets. they're paying a price for what their vaunted leader is doing, not to the ukrainian people alone but to the concept of civilization. >> the counter to that is some of the people if they're made

publicly to renounce putin they have family back home in russia. that's the concern of what might happen to them. >> also there's the concern, katty kay, we've heard if, you know, orchestras stop playing tchaikovsky, if we stop letting medvedev play wimbledon we are playing into vladimir putin's hands where he can say, look, they're cancelling us all over the globe. >> yeah, we don't want to make it a war of the west against russia which is what putin wants to say. putin wants to say, see, i told you all along it was about nato and the west and particularly the united states attacking russia, and the more russians who are not part of this are attacked perhaps randomly, then that helps his argument. i think you can go on a case-by-case basis. abramovich has now been sanctioned in the uk and cut off from access to his football team. he is close to putin.

there might be a question about ovechkin, his financial ties to putin, but you can go on a case-by-case basis. there are restaurants in new york. >> i think there is a debate there. we had the debate in 1980 obviously and the russians didn't come. >> katty is right, do it on an individual basis. >> still ahead on "morning joe," you can sail but you can't hide. >> i don't understand. >> that's the new warning from the u.s. attorney general. we will have more on his comments on russian oligarchs just ahead. >> oh, for them. because i can't even sail. no one taught me to sail. plus, covid numbers in new york are trending the wrong

way again. >> oh, boy. >> it is just one of the topics we will talk with mayor eric adams about when he joins us in the studio in just a few minutes. speaking of covid, is another round of booster shots around the corner? i thought they were were. we will look at the latest timeline from the experts. you are watching "morning joe." we will be right back. where do you find the perfect developer? well, we found her in prague between the ideal cup of coffee and a museum-quality chronology of the personal computer. ...but you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.

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♪♪ new york city, top of the rock. new york city looking a little foggy and grim and gray. but you know what? >> it has brightened up now. >> looking springy today. >> look at those lapels today. >> i like it. >> joining us now, new york city

mayor eric adams with us. the host of msnbc's "politics nation," president of the national action network reverend al sharpton and member of "the new york times" editorial board mara gay is with us. >> we are focused on reverend al's suit. >> looking for reasons to smile. >> i have to ask you something. i'm a little uncomfortable. >> why? >> because, rev, the mayor, you know, he told the beach story. we all learn in sunday school that you are walking down the beach and the two set of footprints until you get to the tough times and there's only one set of footprints and you're like, jesus, why wasn't you with me there? and willie would always answer, because i was carrying you, my son. that's what he said about you. you think it is safe for a mayor to substitute jesus christ in

the story for the reverend al sharpton? >> you have to have the context. he was opening our national action network convention, and he was saying he had gone through certain things and i helped to carry him. >> that's nice. >> what he was saying was because i was a minister, jesus was carrying me and using my arms to help carry him. >> oh, yes. >> he was in direct order. he knew his theology. he knew what to do. >> see. >> rev is a vessel, you see. >> a vessel. >> the bible is parables. >> exactly, a parable. >> you should see every story in the bible, you should see yourself. >> okay. >> and when you take jesus and the parables out of your life you don't truly reflect on those lessons we learned in sunday school. i can see them all the time, even what we are going through now with violence and people have a level of uncertainty. >> right. >> the possibilities are there. we need to look towards god

again in our city and country. >> there you go. i have been corrected, i haven't i? >> i think we all need to get back to church. >> we got to bring the parable home. how many mornings do i get up and watch mika carry you? >> oh, it is all the time. >> can't dispute that. >> her shoulders are weary, weary, weary. all right. so we've seen one senseless killing after another, one tragedy after another. a couple of days ago, you held a press conference. i think a young, 15-year-old boy was shot and you were like, how long? let's talk about the challenges of -- i know you are only 100 days in, but what are some of the biggest obstacles right now to making the city safer, making the subway safe again? what are some of your biggest challenges? >> well, the young man was 12.

>> 12, oh. >> and sitting in the living room with the family. i wish we could have had the entire city and country hear that mother talk about the loss of her son. i have heard it far too often. let's be clear, these problems are decades in the making. i say over and over again using the analogy, there are many rivers that are feeding the sea of violence in our city and in our country. we have to dam each river, and we are doing our job in the new york city police department. we took over 1,000 guns off the street this year. almost ten a day. you see what is happening in chicago. last year they took over 12,000 guns off the street, so it is a combination of intervention and prevention that i talk about all the time. we are doing our jobs on the ground. our officers, my anti-gun unit took -- made 130-something arrests, and the troubling part is many are repeat offenders.

we will continue to do our job but we need help. we need help from washington, d.c., we need help from albany and we need to get the officers the support on the ground. >> i want to ask, mr. mayor, one of the interesting and tragic things happening in the country right now is you see crime is up across the country, not just in new york where there's been so much discussion of the bail law. we actually as a country don't even fully understand the causes of crime, which is why you say there are many rivers that feed it and that's exactly right. i know you have talked about summer jobs programs, but really beyond that what does your administration plan to do about the other potential causes of disruption feeding this violence, which clearly has coincided with the pandemic more than any one law or policy change? >> so true. we witnessed before the increase in crime across the country and the solution started in new york. we started the process of turning around the lack of safety nationally.

we are going to do it again. you are right, number one, when we put in place our dyslexia screening. it is unbelievable 30% of inmates in our country are dyslexic. we have one high school on staten island to deal with dyslexia, we want to make sure we have it across the boroughs. education is one of the feeders, we fail 55% of black and brown children who never reach proficiency in the city. when you start having this it feeds these crime. when you have someone put human waste in someone's face, attack someone with a hammer, you are seeing the outcome of the failure of how we treated people during the pandemic and we are seeing the results of that. but i'm not stating that because

we're not getting the help in albany or if we don't get help in albany or washington that we don't have the obligation, the responsibility to make our city safe. it matters more than the bell. people use the bell and it is not. is there an income tax credit? i need victory there. i need to make sure mothers can have child care so they can return to work to get our economy back up and operating. so it is more than just one part of my blueprint to end gun violence. it is a holistic approach so we can get it right. >> you mentioned, myrrh mayor, the frustration of police officers with the bail law put in place in 2019 which waived cash bail for some nonviolent offenses. it looks like in the state budget there will be changes to that law. what will it mean practically? will it be helpful to your officers, will it be helpful to you? >> it is about rebuilding the trust. we sent a mixed message to

police officers while they were doing their job. after make ping arrest we were unwilling to prosecute cases. we had a bottleneck court system where too many dangerous people were not having their day in court. what we must look at, the various areas of these laws. number one, we can't continue to encourage adults given juvenile guns. there's a climate on the street that carrying a gun is no longer an illegal act and we have to stop that. we need to look at the discovery process. i'm hoping that they examine the discovery process. something many people don't know but it is a major impact for district attorneys to produce the evidence and turn it over in a timely manner. we have to look at repeat offenders. there's only a small number of people driving crime in our city and in country. they're repeat offenders and if

we don't zero in on them you will constantly see the problem. >> you support a change to the bail law to keep that kind of person off the street? >> yes. i believe we should have a standard in the bail law, but we need to look at the other areas clearly, too. >> rev, there's obviously a balance whether you are talking about the plain clothes unit, whether you are talking about the bail law. the mayor is trying to go further than some city council people would like him to go. how is the balance working? you talked about the balance when being aggressive, when talking about making new york city streets safe but at the same time obviously pushing reform with police officers, with the force and being concerned about also social issues. >> you know, he addressed that yesterday at national action network because many of us agree that we cannot go back to what

we faced under the era of stop and frisk and broken windows. and as i stated, a broken trust. but i think that the difference here is that this mayor has been a policeman and a victim of police brutality so he understands both. he was brutalized as a youngster, as a black coming up in new york, and he was a policeman and was shunned by some elements in our community for being a policeman until he proved himself that i'm going to be a different kind of cop and fight for that. i think the thing i most resent is that it is almost like we accept that blacks and browns are synonymous with criminals and that we don't oppose crime. it is how we do it and how we reimagine it. i think that that's the needle that he's going to have to thread, and i think he cannot do it without people on both sides. the mayor and i talk and i say, i got questions.

he says, let's meet. i said some of the civil liberties and civil rights. he said, let's meet. you know me. 35 years i've been on this side but some things we have to do. he, i will never forget, three weeks after i did the eulogy of george floyd, a victim of police brutality, i came back to brooklyn and preached the funeral of a 1-year-old kid killed in street violence. how do i mourn one and not the other. >> what you hear people say, we can't go back to the heavy-handed policing, but we also can't go back to 2,000 homicides a year. >> correct. >> 98,000 robberies and 98,000 felonious assaults. it is comfortable in some circles to say we can't go back to heavy-handed policing but they don't finish the sentence. i'm not going back to seeing the

city mothers mourn 12-year-old babies. i'm not going back to a city with heavy-handed policing but we want to make sure crime has not become a norm. it has become a norm because of generational, really betrayals in our city and we're going to tackle that. >> i have to say i covered three mayors and when i hear you talk about accountability, both to keep crime down but also to hold accountable the police department, it is encouraging. but what i am personally hoping to see from you is the reforms you plan to put in place within the police department to do that and the kind of transformational change that you have talked about because you will one day no longer be mayor and this police department, as you know, needs enormous changes in leadership. >> you know, just remaining pib lickal. i am not the choir, i wrote the song. i agree with you. i know the problems in the

police department. they're systemic, they're real. but i know there are men and women who wear that uniform and they put themselves in harm's way every day. when i send them out there to do a job, i'm not going to leave them out there. i'm going to lead them from the front. we need to weed out the bad-acting police officers but we also need to uplift the officers that go beyond the call of duty. >> right. >> it is a difficult challenge to run into a building that someone is discharging a gun. that's a frightening thing. look at officers mora and rivera. these are two young officers who were heroes, who are not coming home. a mother doesn't mourn differently if they lose their child, a dad doesn't mourn differently if they lose their child because of a gang banger or a police officer. we need to stop the violence against innocent people. >> let's continue this. jump in, if you will, because we obviously have two issues here.

we have a rise in crime. we have police officers who have said since 2020, not only in new york city but across the country, politicians don't have our back, we're not going to be as aggressive, we're not going into certain areas if we're going to go in and maybe act in a chaotic situation and end up in jail. on the other side of it, mara talking about the police refarm. how do you implement the dramatic reforms being talked about but i can't say this enough, i keep hearing from cops everywhere, at the same time good cops know you have their back. that when they put their kids to sleep at 8:00, kiss them on the foreheads, say good night to their, you know, husband or wife and they go into the streets and may not come back the next morning, that they know they can do their job and you have their

back if something goes wrong as long as they play by the rules. >> well said. the first way to do that is you hire a mayor that needed people to have their backs. >> we did that. >> because they wore that uniform. second, you hire a mayor that spent his entire law enforcement career fighting for the reforms. the reforms that people are talking about right now are my reforms. these are the reforms that i introduced. and so what i'm saying to people, you needed me then to deal with the reforms and law enforcement and safety, i need you to trust me now and make this a safer city. >> let's follow up, mara and then rev. when you hear me saying the cops have to know that the mayor has their backs, what are some of your biggest concerns? >> i don't even know where to begin. i will tell you this. one concern i have is that we have been holding accountable as a country individual officers,

and in many cases that's the right thing to do. buff i actually would really like to see a much broader approach that actually holds accountable those police departments that have been setting the policies that have put in many cases their officers and their citizens, you know, in harm's path unnecessarily. so that means reforms that actually look at accountability within systems. so we're holding accountable, you know, 26-year-old officers, but who were their commanders? you think about the george floyd protest and the policing there with the brutality unnecessarily that we saw in my opinion that the nypd exercised on peaceful protesters. those individual officers may have executed that but my question is what was their commander do? where is their accountability there? what is that strategy? we have been holding accountable

the lowest man on the totem pole so to speak and i think it is a big problem and i would like to see it addressed in a systemic way. this isn't about the professionalizing police departments across america because if you look at the case rates police are not solving cases at the rate they should be. so it is not just a question of brutality which is important but a question of professionalizing police departments and giving them the resources they need to do their job well and come home at night. >> rev. >> i think also the resources must be given to people that set a police department that is going to be fair and equal to everyone. giving resources to the same thing won't solve it. >> yes. >> i think that's where the challenge is for the mayor, who is equipped to do that, to deal with the institutional inside reform because the things that bother him on the forefront of the spike, yes, police feel threatened, they go in with

their lives at stake, but it seems that the reaction is different based on who it is that they're going in. why is it most of the no-knock killings happen in the black and brown community? so you know how to go into white or wealthy areas and make sure everything checks but you go into black areas with a different at turd. i think it goes to her point, where are the commanders. we are not going to profile nipping. they were stopping more blacks and browns finding nothing. they weren't throwing kids on the upper east side against the wall. if you get the racism out of it, which has to come from institutional change inside, where you set goals, monitor it and all of that. and who would know better than how to do it than a black com who was discriminated against by the nypd. it comes from the top and rots to the bottom, and then we end up marching on the patrolman

rather than his boss who allowed the culture to happen. >> it is about, again, opportunities to turn around the economy. >> yes. >> that's why we lay down a 70-point blueprint. tourism is returning to our city. we were able to keep the schools open, despite everyone was stating we should close across the country. we did it, giving 20 million test kits, a greener, safer environment for our children, and bringing people back to work. i need people back into the office so we can feed the ecosystem of our financial stability in this country. but making my subway system safe, that is why we're dealing with a true enforcement, but at the same time giving wrap-around services to bills we're finding, removing encampments off the street. there's no dignity in having someone sleep in a tent or a

cord board box. all of this is holistic approach and we are laying down a foundation of having a city that won't leave anyone behind. some of the institutional changes we must make, it is taking too long to get rid of violent police officers. i looked at some of those tapes, buff i also saw something else on those tapes. i saw a great level of discipline. i saw a large number of officers in spite of people spitting on them, throwing stones on them, they showed a level of discipline that i expected. the homes who did not we need to separate them off our department, but we need to up lift those doing the job correctly. >> so many of the high-profile, violent crimes we see in the paper almost every day whether subway system are rooted in

mental illness, as it says if you read to the bottom of the program. what do you do about that problem? as you say, there's nothing progressive about let someone freeze sleeping over a subway grate. how do you address that problem for their safety but also the people using the subway? >> i like using the term progress because it means progressive. i'm in the streets at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning talking to homeless, finding out their needs, making sure they also build -- i can build trust with them. i don't see a lot of people who criticize taking people into safe havens. they're not out there with me, you know. number one, we need to create safe spaces for those that are homeless. we need to have wrap-around services and support for them when you go out in the street, but you have to send a clear message. it is not acceptable to have

people in an inhumane condition. hurm waste in a tent. drugraphernalia. >> if you just talk about the insanity of people living like this, people say it is not a progressive view. there's nothing progressive about a city not providing safe housing, safe spaces for these people to live. >> and you couldn't walk into a shelter in d.c. we looked at them. you can't. that's why there are encampments. >> that's why i went out to visit my shelters. i wanted to see the product. >> and what did you find? >> i'm finding clean spaces. i didn't announce i was coming.

in the middle of the night i show up and i say, i want to walk through the shelter, i want to see the product you are sheriffing new yorkers. that's why we created these brochures because i needed to talk to your homeless one-on-one. i know you have an image of i a go. some people can't take care of themselves. that is why we feed a kinder law to help people help themselves. because we are not doing it now. we have abandoned new yorkers. you can be as philosophical as you want and talk about people should have the right to live in the street. no, you should not have the right to live in an undignified manner. >> swinging wildly, where does the city stand on covid? how is it going? >> slight uptick. covid is a formidable opponent you know, we must pivot and shift. whe have to take our hats off to

new yorkers. over spite of people are vaccinated. we did social distancing. covid was real. have you long-term covid where people are dealing with long-term illnesses. but we did the right thing. our economy is back up and operating. we are stabilizing. we have put the right measures in place. we have the anti-viral drugs. we are delivering to the homes of people. i am just really proud of how new york responded to covid. we were the epicenter. we can learn some precedential things. >> with that, we scratched the surface. all the problems you are dealing with, as the mayor of new york city. a lot of them being discussed, the national man conference going on right now, reverend al? >> today, hillary clinton will be addressing -- and we are going to have the secretary of hud is going to deal with housing, marsha fudge and we have homeland security, we have several cabinet members, we will

do that conversation with race so this is a great day. then we go through saturday and we, i would say, providentially, others will say coincidentally, we will be in session when the first black woman takes the supreme court, likely confirmed. i think they may go closer together and have the official role tomorrow. we will be celebrating. >> how exciting is that? thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> i understand we had some problem with the background. you are welcome any time. coming up, thank you all, very much. amid kremlin's crackdown on access to facts about the warp, we will talk to the former head of news of russia's top tech firm who is accused of being a key element in hiding information from the russian people. plus, former president barack obama headlines speakers of disinformation and erosion of

democracy summit yesterday in chicago. the atlantic's jesse goldberg joins us with what the former president had to say and arizona's republican attorney general confirms what we already knew two years ago, there is no evidence, any fraud or conspiracy occurred in the 2020 presidential election. >> they just keep going. >> "morning joe" is back in a moment as we do. s back in a moment as we do. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children

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coming up on the top of the hour. drizzly day at the white house after an exhaustive six-month investigation into the 2020 presidential election. arizona's attorney general says there is no evidence any fraud or conspiracy took place, despite former president trump's

claims of a stolen election. arizona's republican attorney general september a letter to the state legislature saying his office quote has left no stone unturned in the aftermath of the 2020 election. this follows a year-long pressure campaign by trump to try to uncover legal activity that would have given him a win in arizona, trump lost the state by 10,000 votes, a republican commission review confirmed biden's victory a. six month investigation, the republican attorney general tells us again no fraud in the 2020 election. >> i'm not trying to be funny here. this literally has happened time and time again. we have a republican tomorrow says nothing's there. the maricopa county republicans that ran the office were let's just say a little curt when some of these freaks in the legislature, these freaks running for state wide office that have all of these bizarre conspiracy theories. they've looked at this time and time and time again.

you are going up against people who don't want to listen to facts. you have friends who believe italians, you know. >> satellite. >> had lasers. i got friends who believe the most bizarre. by the way, highly educated people. they don't want to know the trust. the truth is in front of them. the truth has been in front of them, yet it continues. >> arizona where the state legislature was looking into bamboo in the ballots, because they believe they are shipped in from china. >> even cyber ninjas at the end of their slaptd review ended up giving biden more votes. >> they added votes. the state of georgia, the vote there was counted three times. no fraud there, biden won every time. up next, we return to our coverage of the war in ukraine. nbc news' richard engel brings us the latest from the ground. mr. us that war played a large role in the high cost of gas. is greed also a factor? why u.s. lawmakers are accusing

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comcast business. powering possibilities.™ . our message to those who continue to enable the russian regime through their criminal conduct is this. it does not matter how far you sail your yacht, it does not matter how well you consume your assets, it does not matter how cleverly you write your malware

or hide your online activity. the justice department will use every available tool to find you, to swap your plots and hold you accountable. >> attorney general merritt garland yesterday with that warning to the kremlin elites after the justice department unveiled new charges against a russian oligarch for violating sanctions. >> i think he had covid. >> he did. welcome back to "morning joe." it's thursday, april 7th. we lead this hour with the latest from ukraine as those in the north are liberated from russian tyranny. others in the east are bracing for what could be a similarly devastating scenario. the pentagon says the kremlin could be regrouping for another offensive after its last incursion left scores of civilians murdered in what could only be described as war crimes. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard everything el reports from villages around

the capital city. >> reporter: the battered ruins of russian military vehicles are scattered outside kiev this morning but a u.s. military official tells nbc news all russian troops have left the region. the russians came, they killed, they retreated. withdrawing back no belarus and russia for repairs. the pentagon sounding upbeat about ukraine's chances. >> the proof is literally in the outcomes every day. absolutely, they can win. >> reporter: it was only two months ago, the pentagon, the white house, nato and others assumed russia military superiority. the military over 8,000 would overpower if days. >> militarily, overwhelming superiority. >> reporter: but ukrainian tenacity and inspiring president zelenskyy poor russian logistics and tactics and a steady supply

of western weapons have shifted the balance. the cost of holding out has been massive ukrainian casualties, the scale only coming to light in areas around kiev, rescue crews are trying to honor the remains of what they fear to be hundreds of victims, many women and children hiding in shelters now buried under debris. ukraine is collecting evidence of war crimes. the prosecutor's office says more than 400 bodies have been removed from towns and villages around the ukrainian capital already. president biden imposing more sanctions on russia tuesday banning new american investments in russia and sanctioning putin's two daughters and elites. >> civilians executed in cold blood, bodies dumped into mass graves. the sense of brutality and humanity left for all the who recalled to see unapologetically. >> reporter: despite huge russian losses, 15,000 russian troops have been killed,

vladimir putin seems prepared to throw even more soldiers into the fight, focusing now on eastern ukraine, intensifying attacks on char kiev and the city of mariupol, which is still holding out. the mayor there says at least 35,000 people have been killed already, including more than 200 children. . >> let's bring in the secretary of state, your message is getting american's message out across the world. so i know you dealt with the lies that the fire hose of falsehoods. >> exactly. >> that not only defined vladimir putin's regime, really, let's face it, defined russian diplomacy for the past century. what is your reaction to what you are hearing out of putin? what you are hearing from russian citizens who are actually believing all of the

lies he's feeding them? >> yeah. >> how discouraging is that? >> it's a little bit discouraging, joe. i was there during the invasion of 2014 of crimea. we called it an annexation. i think one of the things we are seeing in the policies now is people reacting to the way we didn't react in 2014. they're getting ahead of the intel, putting it out there. in 2014, we were surprised. and also in 2014, the russians seemed like innovators of disinformation. they had the internet research agency in st. petersburg. we were kind of surprised about that. >> can we talk about that? >> yeah. >> we have been building up putin like he's some masterful architect of disinformation. the united states, the ukrainians, especially, the west has made him look foolish, made him look like a rookie. >> yes. >> we have cut his disinformation campaign off at the knees.

>> yes. he was an innovator in 2014. now he's behind the times. so they had a distributed network in 2014. we couldn't tell where the messaging was coming from. now they don't have any messaging at all. it's completely top down. as you were saying about the russian audience, if putin announced that he won the decathlon at the olympics, 60% of russian would believe him. the strange thing about the russian information space is that it's relatively opened. until a few years ago, you could read the "new york times" at red square. but 90% of russians get 90% of their information from state media. it's their choice and so that's a hard thing to deal with. i remember when i was at the state department, should we try to message directly to russians? i said, i don't think we had any subscribers there. it's like they're not interested in our message. >> literally, they got funds, it's not like they couldn't get

vpn and given an address out of britain, get the news. they are choosing willfully to get disinformation, like we are talking on a domestic level, a far different scenario, a far different setup. some people choose to get disinformation because it makes them feel better. >> because of the information they are getting, if the public polls are believed, he has the support of 80% of the country. the message now they are getting has become so desperate and perverted it sounds something like this. the bodies are fake in bucha. this is a pre text to come into spain and russia. so now we are defending the homeland and somehow through this perverted logic and message taking hold in russia. it's ukraine that is the aggressor here. >> many earthquake is always the main enemy in russia and the thing about russian disinformation that always amazed me is that they didn't

try to take a little of reality and massage it to a false message. they would make up things out of whole cloth. oh, the ukrainians sabotaged that. those are fake actors, fake dead bodies. the disrespect they have for the russian people always amaze me. they'll take it for granted. >> you know, president biden, there is an argument to be made, he has simply not gone enough credit for what he's done, pulling nato together as a strong, united group in terms of a unified message, nato and the united states are all on the same page, but there are a lot of countries around the globe that are not on the same page with us in terms of the message, despite what everyone in the world can see on their tv screens. the principle nation that i would be concerned about, or one of the principle nations, you would know far better than us would know is india. where is india in all of this?

>> yes. so, yes, to your first part of your question, they have been masterful in hurting the cats in mexico. it's hard to get germany and france to agreement they have done a great job there. this idea we are winning the global messaging war is a bit of a misnomer. you have the two biggest countries in the world, china and india that don't subscribe to this. india and russia have been together for many, many years. india always supports russia at the u.n.. russia always supports india at the u.n. and the indians have played it sort of coy. so they have a public, there is a kind of a low information voter public there. and they're getting a lot of that russian propaganda. that is what the russians are still good at. they do propaganda in many different languages, india languages. china, for example, if you go on there, this is the tiktok war and you look at things that are in mandarin, they're all pro russian on tiktok. >> how'd we get turned sideways

with india? we supposedly made a choice with india over pakistan, the pakistanis hate us. how did we get turned sideways on india? >> well, we have never been turned sideways. india thinks we are supporting pakistan, we've never supported their claims on kashmir. russia has always supported their claims. i remember going to pakistan when i was in the state department. they said congratulation, our popularity rating is at a new time high. i said, what is it? 12%. india, it's probably on%. so it's always been an uphill struggle for us in both of those places. >> so former president barack obama made these comments yesterday about the war in ukraine and vladimir putin's to harness resentment both in russia and overseas in his bid to undermine the west. >> it is a brazen reminder for

democracies that have gotten -- that had gotten flabby and confused. and fectless aren't the stakes of things that we tended to take for granted. >> rule of democracy? >> yes, rule of law. freedom of press and conscience. we have gotten complacent and i think that i cannot guarantee that as a consequence of what's happened we are shaking off that complacency. >> editor-in-chief of the "atlantic" magazine.

they convened a three-day conference on disinformation and the erosion of democracy. what was your take away from your speak from your interview of the former president yesterday? >> reporter: on a couple of things, one is that he is genuinely i think grappling with consequences of his own decision-making in ukraine in 2013/2014, has very good answers for why the obama administration didn't do more. yet, he still feels somewhat unsatisfying to people. the situation was different. but, you know, i think like a lot of people he's a bit surprised putin went as far as he did now. second, i think he believes that in a way that i think a lot of us on this panel do, that america is surprisingly vulnerable to the same sorts of disinformation patterns that

non-democracies are. you know, the idea that significantly 30-to-40% of americans don't believe that possibly the most effective vaccine in history, it doesn't work, shows that it's not just a russian problem with disinformation. i started by asking him, is he essentially surprised that so many russians believe that, a, ukraine is an aggressor nation, br, the russian army is winning. he kind of brought it back to americans. look, we have millions and millions of people here who believe that the current president is illegitimate and vaccines don't work. so i think he's, i don't want to say surprised, but he's a bit taken aback by how powerful a force in human nature and in technology disinformation is. >> the disinformation of democracy this time, i am curious, have you personally,

have you seen a bit of a readjustment? we have been talking how vladimir putin is a mass of disinformation, his disinformation machine is getting chopped by ukraine, getting annihilated by u.s. intel services. you also see putin now has gone from being somewhat popular among rank and time republicans to being one of the most reviled figures in the world. i am wondering if you see this as a clarifying moment and americans and our society are making some adjustments? >> yeah. i was a little bit surprised by president obama's criticism of what he referred to as the sort of flabbiness and fectlessness of mature democracy, half a democracy that we are not skilled or paying or have been paying enough attention to some of the challenges that technology and nefarious actors

bring to this. on the other hand, you know, i don't want to overstate it yet. i mean, vladimir putin sa blunt force instrument. he's become much a blunter, obviously. meanwhile, they're still tearing up ukraine and they're tearing it up with a certain level of impunity. i think propaganda, like disinformation like this works best when it's done deliberately and a little bit more subtly than the russian campaign over the last couple months in the west. but let's deal with the ultimate reality is that most russians right now seem to believe him. >> yep. >> that's the impunity that matters the most right now. if the russian people decide or had enough information or opened to factual information that this vision is a disaster we'd be in a different place entirely.

if he has 80 percent of the population, he has 80 percent of the population. >> you asked president obama about power of social media to spread disinformation? >> if you look at, for example, facebook's response or twitter's response or youtube's response post-january 6th, they made a point of saying, well we responded by doing a whole series of things. some of which then were reversed after the heat was up. which tells me that they at least appear to have some insight into what's more likely to prompt insurrectionists, white supremacists, you know, of and misogynist behavior on the internet. they seem to know what it is.

>> jeffrey, you mentioned earlier that the former president talked i guess about some misgivings he had about his own administration's response to ukraine in 2013/2014. i am wondering, did he mention specifically the night that he took a pass on russia crossing the red line, which it already crossed by using chemical weapons in syria and the united states rather than acting on it? did he talk about that at length at all? >> reporter: no, i've talked to him in the past about the red line issue. we only spent a few minutes on ukraine and we didn't get to there. but, obviously, this is a strong critique of obama's performance in syria, which, of course, has had extreme consequence for russia and countries that were sort of engage and always engage presidential response to

provocation. i don't think he adds, i don't want to overstate it. i don't think he necessarily has misgivings about ukraine. i think he's thinking through what has changed about vladimir putin. i asked him, you know, explain putin. you know him better than most people. most americans, certainly. he posited a couple ideas, he said it could be age. it could be the isolation brought about by covid. but even by then, he said, he was still, putin was championship chufd by these ethno-nationalist myths that really motivated his speaking about ukraine, in particular, as an illegitimate state. i think that's where he was going with that. no, i don't think he's, i would like to push him more actually on that syria question and i asked him when his next volume is coming out, because that's going to be the syria chapters. i am very keen to see how he

interprets that eight years later. >> jeffrey, stay with us for this conversation, the former head of news of russia's largest search engine, the country's google accusing the company of hiding information from the russian people on the war in ukraine. in a facebook post march 1st, they accused them of being a part of the propaganda saying it is quote, not too late to cease the accomplice to a horrific crime. thank you so much for being with us. so you can help us answer the question we have been discussion here. which is even to the access that information people have on phones laptops and everywhere else, how is it that the narrative dictated by vladimir putin, by the russian government, by the russian military, seems to have so taken hold in reeve even among young people, how do you explain the flow of information that that country?

>> reporter: all right. well, thank you for inviting me here. the question is not that simple. i mean, as it was said earlier. today there is no real difficulties in accessing any kind of information right now or at least a couple months ago. for me, the main question is whether people are good to ask questions. whether they are uncertain. whether they want to find answers. and if they do want to find answers, then there are a lot of means to do so. but, the theme, the situation would be with the media in russia isn't that simple and the situation with free speech in general and free news sources, independent news sources is

really difficult. and talking about the index, it's quite simple. they have a news work on the main page, with a really huge audience and only a very limited number of news sources are allowed to be presented here. so to some laws restricting the freedom of speech, you still find new stories are taken only from i don't know exactly the number but not more than ten or 15 very close to the government and new sources, and so, fact, it's spreading the propaganda. one more thing, users that millions of users in russia, they got used to relying and to solve a lot of problems like in the every day lives.

so, they believe it and they tell them on screen page 10 nothing extraordinary happens, they can display themselves, no emergency, that's how it's lev, publicly from your colleagues at yandex. what are they saying the way their company is being run? >> reporter: yeah. first of all and that was one of the reactions that i was told that i am not that proud of, so physically, i am in germany right now. although, a lot of my friends, relatives and former and current colleagues are still in russia. so it's a bit different. but the problem is it's not that important from my perspective, where i am personally situated.

the most important thing is whether what i am stateing is true or not. if it's true, if they can share my vision, if they can admit that such a problem exists and that they as a company are somehow responsible for the product and they're responsible, what's kind of information, maybe not deliberately, they are spreading among the users, then they can be, then we can find some solutions and i was ready to help them. if not, if they decline this, then, yeah, it's like well, i didn't unfortunately i didn't get any meaningful responses, any actions at all.

so this station is like it was a month-and-a-half before now. >> i am sure there is some fear at work there from people that remain in russia. from the largest search engine, thank you so much for being with us. i appreciate it. >> i just want to ask, given what's going on there you had said such a large amount of the russian propaganda gets it and believes it. that's their choice. it doesn't seem like they have a lot of other choices? >> that's a good point. we think of this universal engine, there is a balkanization of the internet. they have decon tocktai. >> is that, none of it is 43? >> it's pseudostate industry. so they seem to have a choice. most of the fire hose of falsehood as joe mentioned comes directly at them. >> what choices do they have? if there are choices? >> well, they can go on their

phone and get the news, but they news not to get the news, that's the most important part. >> i want to underline something you said, most americans don't understand, he kills political opponents, because he's long killed journalists, we have put him in the same position as say china. as you said, my russian friends have told me before this you can get the news you wanted, like you said, if you wanted to read the "new york times" in red square. you could. >> you can, of course, it's in english. i remember an intelligence officer says the first time they travel to europe or america, the biggest surprise is people don't speak russian. they have a very narcissistic view of their culture, putin mirrors. the russian world he talks about all the time so they can read the new york sometimes i times. but they choose not to.

>> so, jeffrey gold berks what, i'm curious, in the middle of the conference, we're seeing what's happening around kiev. we've seen the russians have retreated. we've seen that they have been pushed out of the country. what zubl the next phase of the war is? i said pushed out of that part of the country. what is the next fiez? there is a nice phase and what are the biggest challenges for the bind administration? >> those are big questions, joe. >> let me ask you another question. what do you think will win the world series? you can pick either one. >> i am going with the russian question. there is one thing to add to what rick and you are talking about. there is a very i thought interesting presentative quote from president obama yesterday. he said i do think there is a demand for crazy on the internet we need to grapple with.

i was thinking about that what russian want and don't want. people like outlandish falsehoods. they're exciting. there is deep an mystic emotions that people can stir up. people enjoy that stuff. so the demand side is as interesting as the supply side. we have to sort of deal with that. in terms of where this is going, it's hard to see i understand is it to the east that putin is obviously can be interpreted as a kind of a fallback. the thing i worry that i might talk to somebody in the administration yesterday is that the brutality of this phase will outstrip the previous phase. these are areas of ukraine that to the extent, there is to a large extent, putin believes all of ukraine is russia. this is what this one person was

saying. that these areas, they really feel are illegitimately a part of a legitimate state. the soiree that they will tear through in a really brutal way. i think one of the interim challenges to the biden administration is that at a certain point, they're going to run out of things to sanction. there is nothing more to see. all the yachts, everything, it will be done and then we could come up against that, we've talked about this on the show in the past. it comes up against the reality of the escalatory domination cycle in which russia will just do things that we won't do, because we are not looking to have a war with russia and certainly enter into a nuclea escalatory phase. i am worried that brutality will be extreme that the west will find it's limited in its option,

the next phase is going to be intense pressure from the ukrainian government to speed up the flow of w weapons, they cou be running of u out of weapons in the next two or three weeks. if they're not careful. >> jeffrey brings up i think a really important point u.s. policy-makers need to keep in mind that vladimir putin has long succeeded because he disrupts international order. there is massive disruption when he invaded ukraine. the west bass back on its heels. we were still back on our heels. most people didn't think he was going to run into ukraine. we now have gained their balance, done an extraordinarily effect so much so he is back on

his heels. isn't it safe to assume following the history, he is going to do something to once again disrupt, because russia has been so humiliated, whether mass atrocities, chemical war far, tactical narcotic clear weapons. we have to prepare for that. that's what this guy does. >> he came on after wards and talked about the incredible gleev e grievances he has about the west. this idea he was even keel. he was disruptive to the situation. he felt insecure. of that's the thing you can't plan for. he's so insecure that we don't know what he will do. on the other side, now the focus narrowed to the east and the south. that will help on the west focus on giving discreet armaments,

tanks, planes. he has to come out with some kind of victory. we have to will emthe scale of that. >> thank you very much for this really interesting conversation. still ahead on morning joe, a congressional hearing on big oil turns into the gla blame game over rising gas prices. plus, senate republicans are holding up $10 billion in covid relief funding. we will tell you what they want in exchange of this money. former secretary of homeland security jay johnson joins us. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

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[ music playing ] >>. >> russia's war in ukraine has played a significant role in the high gas prices we are paying here in the united states. it's not the only reason. nbc's tom costello reports. >> reporter: with a product decades high oil industry facing political backlash at the pain at the pump. executives from six of the largest companies in the virtual hot seat at a congressional hearing wednesday, where democrats accused the companies of price gouging. >> at a time of record profits, big oil is pre fusing to increase production to provide the american people some much-needed relief at the gas pump. yes or no, do higher oil prices mean higher dividends for your shareholders? >> yes. >> reporter: the ceos say the

cost of oil is set globally. >> most people set the price of oil or gasoline. >> nearly all shell are set by independent owns e owners that set the market price. >> reporter: cost to have krut has soared. >> the united states is the world's biggest oil and gas producer. we need to keep producing in order to meet demands. >> the average gas 4.16, 1.29 higher than last year. drivers in 13 states and d.c. paying even more, including california, the highest at $35.82 a gallon. republican who's hope to regain control of congress in the mid-terms put the blame at high prices at the president's pete feet. >> putting thousands of red tape, making it harder to drill. >> reporter: arguing the policies and efforts to ween the nations off fossil fuels are driving up costs and accusing

president biden from storm tracker 2000ing from low approval ratings. >> this is not the putin price hike. this is the biden price hike! it's been a steady climb since he took office. coming up, more than 200 million people in the united states are vaccinated against the coronavirus. far fewer have received a beers shot. so what is the fda's strategy going forward? an update on the fight against covid next on "morning joe." agt covid next on "morning joe." new poligrip power hold and seal. clinically proven to give strongest hold, plus seals out 5x more food particles. fear no food. new poligrip power hold and seal.

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large out-of-state corporations have set their sights on california. they've written a ballot proposal to allow online sports betting. they tell us it will fund programs for the homeless, but read the fine print. 90% of the profits go to out-of-state corporations, leaving almost nothing for the homeless. no real jobs are created here. but the promise between our state and our sovereign tribes would be broken forever. these out-of-state corporations don't care about california. but we do. stand with us. welcome back. q1 of the big questions surrounding covid these days are more booster shots on the way. >> reporter: the fda is trying to map out a vaccine strategy for the rest of the year, but the road is far from clear. >> i feel the pain. >> reporter: health officials

now racing to pinpoint which coronavirus strain to target if they want revised boosters available by the fall. >> if you are not on your way to that clinical trial by the beginning of may, i think it's very difficult to have collectively across manufacturers enough product to meet that demand. >> reporter: the advisory panel meeting publicly a week after the fda and cdc okayed a second booster shot for 50 people and older. in europe, you must be 80-years-old, some critique them for acting too quickly. >> i'm wondering why you already made more boosters. >> reporter: new research shows a fourth shot offered protection against severe illness, against protection, itself, appeared short lived. >> we may have to adjust the vaccine depending on which variants happen to be the most active that particular season. >> reporter: the ba.2 subvariant

is the most dominant case in the u.s., and cropping up in few states. the u.s. attorney general tested positive for covid. the congress secretary announcing the same earlier that day. both growing the ranks of politicians to contract the virus after reportedly attending a dinner in washington last weekend. >> how concerned should we be with this subvariant? >> so it's more contagious. not more serious. i think it will continue to cause many case, but i don't think, except maybe here and there, we'll see a very large increase in hospitalizations. >> thanks to emily for that report. coming up, it's not just the oligarchs being punished for russia's war in ukraine. president putin's own family is feeling the fallout. those details are next on "morning joe." those details are next on "morning joe."

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a live look at the capitol. a lot more ahead as we get ready to roll into the fourth hour of "morning joe."mourning. we are going to talk about the controversial comments made by senator tom cotton. and of course, judge ketanji brown jackson is going to be confirmed today. that will be history in the making. we talk about the economy. are we heading towards a recession? the deputy secretary treasurer will be joining us in the fourth. hour and in just a moment the former secretary of homeland security under president obama, -- johnson joins us. we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

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republicans in their tom cotton is not backing down harris comments that supreme court judge nominee ketanji brown jackson might have gone to nuremberg in the 1940s to defend nazis after world war ii. first part of his comments earlier this week. and then, what he said yesterday when asked about it by fox news. >> the last touch jackson left the supreme court to go to nuremberg, and prosecute the case against the nazis. this drive jackson might have gone there to defend them. >> you don't think it is a bridge too far to make the link with nuremberg and nazis? >> no john. in three separate cases she was representing not american citizens, charged with a crime, entitled to due process in ercot tribute shun, foreign terrorists. who had committed acts of violence against americans. again, these are not american citizens. they are foreign terrorists, and three cases, that she voluntarily on vacated. for anyone she accused american soldiers of being war

criminals. i do not think she should be on the supreme court. >> president of homage a johnson. so, jeh johnson, you are an attorney. i am an attorney. you've done pro bowl network. >> went to law school. >> and of course, the judge was doing the same thing for a firm that she worked for, and today assigned it to her. he knows better, doesn't he? he went to harvard law school! >> anything for a soundbite, right? i look at this a debate from the perspective of a government lawyer. i was general counsel of the department of defense for four years. when we were defending all of these cases brought by guantánamo detainees. and they took comfort from the fact that they all had extremely competent counsel making the best case they could before the d.c. federal

district court. so when the petition was denied we knew it was the result of sound jetting and good lawyer-ing. even lindsey graham said, about 12 years ago, the confidence law earring on the defense side representing a guantánamo detainee, representing some of the accused of a heinous crime, lends strength to the system. that is what the judge was doing along with a lot of other lawyers. >> he does know better. he does. but remember that the accolades he has learned from donald trump to say the outrageous thing, which for the, enraged don't apologize. double down and raise money and gets reelected. on tom cotton's case raise your presidential polling from 0.5 to 0.7%. whatever it takes to get some attention. >> and this working for him. because we are talking about it. >> yes i guess. >> it is unfortunate. let's talk about the relief bill that would provide nutritional ten billion dollars in funding it is being boycotted by all 50 senate

republicans. pushing registration that would prevent -- entrance during the pandemic. i know some officials have been allowed to quickly turn away asylum seekers at the border. the biden administration has decided to and the rule. senate republicans are demanding votes from the covid legislation that would counter biden's move can reinstate the policy for more. let's bring in msnbc news correspondent julia and sally, who reports extensively on border issues. julia, you are hearing from republicans that this is going to cause a crisis at the border. which will only deepen. you are hearing from democrats than actually getting whether this will allow law enforcement to more effectively chase after people who are legally smuggling people over the border. >> that is right joe. we saw just with the announcement last week that stephen miller was tweeting this would be armageddon at the border, and this is how nations

and. we are hearing a lot of hyperbolic rhetoric around this. well it is a return to status quo. title 42 was broadened during the beginning of the pandemic. kept all of these asylum seekers from crossing the border. but it actually inflated the numbers of immigrants that border patrol officers were encountering, because there were a lot of repeats. rather than bringing them through the system, processing them, putting them before a judge and giving them a final asylum protection or deportation order, they were turning them around quickly. and a lot of these immigrants were trying, again and again. i spoke to them personally when i went to the border last summer. there is a fear that those numbers could go up. when they do lift those restrictions. that is what we are seeing a response. but again, you could not keep title 42, which is a public health authority, in place while we start to ease pandemic restrictions around the country. and that has actually been stretched out far longer than a lot of people thought it would buy the biden missed ration. >> all right julia ainsley we

appreciate that gracefully. but jeh johnson, you are down the middle on this issue. you believe there is a border crisis. you have not taken the position that a lot of democrats have taken. so let me ask, you title 42, lifting, that what does that? do >> that provision is two 65 title 42 of the u.s. code. it is an extraordinary authority of the cdc to be invoked by the cdc. it had to end at some time. the courts are becoming increasingly skeptical of the use of this provision. i guess the one thing i would have, and still have at the table, the one thing i probably would've argued for is, can we end the sometime in july? >> i was going to. say this is not the best time, is? it >> it is. warmer migration tends to slow down in the late summer. the reality is, and i think you've probably heard me say this before, migration across the southern border is a very

market sensitive phenomenon. it reacts sharply too news in central america mexico, about perceive changes and enforcement policy. so i am quite sure that the ending of title 42 is big news right now in central america. amplified by the smugglers who make money off of this type of thing. the corollary to all of this is, we see these sharp changes, upswing, down swings. as long as we underline factors in central america, the push factors continue to exist. families will always make the basic choice to flee a burning building, come to the united states, take their chances. even if it is only for a couple of years while the climate is pending. >> mister secretary, big picture, what do you see is the crisis at the border right now? the numbers are, huge between 150 and 200,000 border apprehensions per month since president biden came into office. what is happening down there, and what needs to change? >> if you ask most americans,

and not just those on the extremes yelling at each other about this issue, most believe we should be fair and humane to those who are in this country. the dreamers, for example. most americans, i am convinced, believe that those who have been in this country for ten years or more should be given an opportunity to be accountable, get on the books. but most americans also believe in -- go to, texas 85% mexican american. they want our border under control. the numbers of 7000 a day. estimates are now climbing over 10 to 18 possibly. they are not sustainable. not with communities across the border that have to observe this cause population, not for charities, not for the border patrol or i.c.e. who have to track these people, keep up with these people. and not sustainable politically. for the biden administration. >> so you agree there is a crisis at the border right now? >> yes absolutely.

>>