family members and don't go anywhere. we'll have more first-hand accounts from across ukraine up next. another hour of "velshi" from lviv, ukraine, begins right now ♪♪ ♪♪ good morning. it is saturday, april the 9th. day 45 of the war in ukraine. i'm ali velshi in lviv in western ukraine, but we begin this morning on the other side of the country in the eastern city of kramatorsk where russian-backed separatists had been in conflict with the rest of ukraine since 2014, prior to russia's unprovoked invasion 45 days ago and it's also where russia has a stronghold and where it says it plans to refocus its effort after retreating from the kyiv region. this was the scene at the train station at the beginning of march. ukrainians had swarmed here in

the past 45 days trying to escape their war-torn towns. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy had warned to leave the region before the conflict worsened as they expected it to do. so they had tried to leave urgently. this was the scene earlier this week. a busy hub with thousands of people waiting there at any given time for a chance to board the next train out of eastern ukraine. it was a very different scene there now, but before we go on, i once again have to warn you that the images you're about to see are graphic and deeply disturbing. they're certainly too difficult for children to process. i do, however, urge the rest of you not to turn away. on friday morning as people once again gathered at the kramatorsk train station hoping to escape to safer points in the west, a missile struck and killed at least 52 people and injured nearly 100 others. russia has denied responsibility for the attack. it shifted the blame to

ukrainians. an american senior defense official said our full expectation is that this was a russian strike, end quote. another setback for the evacuation efforts in that heavily besieged part of the country where humanitarian convoys have had difficulties since the beginning of the war. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy called it another war crime and likened it to bucha and a massacre had emerged. much of bucha has been reduced to large piles of rubble. many buildings have been ripped open with the roofs caved in. the streets resemble a junkyard littered with burned out vehicles. residents have accused russian soldiers of rape and indiscriminate and gruesome killings. "the wall street journal" tells the story of a woman whose son went missing after taking out the trash.

she was scavenging in a nearby house where she found her son in the yard with most of his face missing. to see the aftermath of russia's occupation of the ton while ursula von der leyen visited the town, and you could see her recoil in shock as she witnessed a mass grave. the atrocities in bucha whether you call it a war crime as much as the war does or a genocide as the ukrainians do. they set in motion a new set of punishments on thursday. the united nations voted to suspend russia as a member of the human rights council although russia retains a seat on the security council where it can veto any major action that the u.n. takes. after meeting with president zelenskyy ursula van der leyen, and a member of the eu has been sped up and they had another

round of military aid to ukraine worth $130 million while president biden signed new sanction bills yesterday that suspend normal trade relations with russia and its ally belarus as well as bans imports of oil, coal and natural gas from russia. meanwhile, the humanitarian crisis continues. more than 4.4 million people have now fled ukraine. millions more about six and a half million more remain displaced within the country. joining me is nbc's molly hunter. the death toll on the attack in kramatorsk is 52. what more can you tell us? >> yeah, ali. ukrainian officials add that the next count of that death toll will rise, 52 people including five children. this was, yes, a train station and it was a gathering point, a meeting point for people, civilians trying to flee the violence of the east and trying to move more west to where i am

and where you are to the relative safety of the west of the country. we believe thousands and thousands of civilians were sitting and waiting in that train station and waiting for trains out. how that attack has kind of changed the evacuation effort of those people trying to get out of donbas region. local officials say trains at that train station in kramatorsk have been suspended. no one can get out there. they'll have to find other routes and train stations in the east, ali. they'll start putting precautions so that thousands of people don't gather because quite clearly russians knew that and they're going for bigger groups of civilians, ali. >> molly, we ran a story of yours just a little while ago where you were talking to a woman who had lost her husband, a son who had lost her father, and there's a remarkable humanity that you've been able to tap into here by people just living their lives. they didn't want any part of this and that came across very

clearly in your story, but you've been talking to a lot of ukrainians over the weeks about this. >> exactly right. >> i think we agree, war is about the people and it's about the personal side of it and it's not about how many s300s and how many javelins have been ordered and it is about people like taisa who you met last hour who are directly affect. i want to share about that area in borodianka about an hour from where i am in kyiv. it's on that mainakes is from belarus to kyiv. they needed and wanted to take control so they can start moving their supplies and weaponry closer to the capital of kyiv. it got hit very, very hard. so people there when we met them last week in the last couple of days they were coming up with no food, no water and no electricity and no medical care.

taisa's neighbor, she also shared with us an additional story about her family that i just want to share with you here and then we can talk about it on the back end. >> marina shows us around the city center there. she says after this apartment building was bombed they could hear screams for days. people underneath urgently pleading for help, but she says the russians shot anyone who tried to rescue them. >> i'm mole. >> at her house she introduces us to her daughter elena. >> nice to meet you. >> i know these soldiers, she says. they're chechens fighting for russia. i was so worried they would come and rape her so we hid her under piles of clothes. >> so if the russians came you would be safe. >> yes. the soldiers came and searched their house, but didn't find elena. >> ali, this is the forefront of women's minds that we are talking to around these suburbs of kyiv. women who have escaped possible rape from russian soldiers,

women who are accusing russian soldiers of rape and women like marina who were so scared of it they hid their daughter under piles of clothes so when russian troops came she was out of sight. i appreciate your support and having you on the ground has been a huge benefit and a huge privilege for us and for our audience. >> and having you on the ground is the same for us. molly, thank you to you and your teams for what you're doing. molly hunter in kyiv, the capital of ukraine. joining me now is david millband, former secretary for the united kingdom and currently serves as president and ceo of the international rescue committee which is a key humanitarian aid group. david, you wrote about impunity, what happens if russia continues to go unpunished and there are some who would argue, it's not going unpunished, but there are some who would argue in this country that it's not being punished enough. tell me your thoughts about

this. [ no audio ] >> over the border -- they're seeing the most appalling -- [ indiscernible ] >> david, i'm just going to interrupt you for a second. we have an audio problem that we need to fix, but i want to just get that fixed and hear what david millband has to say what his views are on this are particularly important given that he's in charge of one of the key refugee agencies in the world. we'll talk to david mill band, former secretary of the international committee after this break. we'll be right back. l committee this break we'll be right back. ♪i've been everywhere.♪ ♪♪

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♪♪ ♪♪ with big thanks to my control room in new york, we fixed some technical difficulties we had, my apologies to you and to david milliband, he's a former secretary with the united kingdom and currently serves as president and ceo of the international rescue committee. david, i didn't want to lose your answer to my question because you have spoken about the impunity and the rise of impunity in this era in which we live, and i wanted to ask you how that relates to how you think the world is treating vladimir putin for this unprovoked invasion? >> i think we're living in a growing age of impunity particularly those in power particularly those around the world are abusing their power. international law after the second world war made it fundamentally clear that civilians had a right both to life and to access to humanitarian aid and those are

two things that are being denied across eastern ukraine and southern ukraine at the moment. that's why i believe that the ukraine crisis represents a capstone on the age of impunity and it's way past time for a response because we've seen in syria and elsewhere that impunity feeds on itself and the abuse of power leads to further and further barbarism and fadism and those are the reports that you and your colleagues are bringing out. this is a war in real time and it's a social media war whether documentation which is often so hard in war is actually being done in real time and that's the first step toward the accountability and the answer to impunity. we need to get into the minds of those in combat that they will be held to justice and that's a critical and fundamental element of preventing the next ukraine is never mind dealing with the current crisis. >> how effective will that be, though? because the world is talking about war crimes and they're

documenting it and people, ukrainians and international organizations are documenting it and we're doing it and there may well be war crime, but as you well know, there are lots of war criminals in the world who are never held to account because they are every in arrested and deal with friendly countries. is there a likelihood that vladimir putin and his henchmen will ever be held to account for this? >> i don't think there is a likelihood because the path to justice is slow and tort wous torturous and incomplete. impunity feeds on itself and that's why i believe the next decade is really a battle between impunity and accountability. accountability can be slow, but it's essential because the alternative is a world in which there's increasing abuse of power, of the kind that you're documenting. one point they think is really important, if we can't protect the lives of civilians and innocent civilians in war zones

that has a feed through because it's the tip of the iceberg, if you like, because the rights to life are so fundamental and so clear in international law whether political and other freedoms will be eroded as well that our examples of criminals being prosecuted and there are too many examples of those that got away with it and that's the fundamental battle that we as a humanitarian agency see on the ground in all of the places we work. >> well, i'm going to be telling the viewers about the places in which there are various scales of genocide going on in the world. it was a shock to our staff when we saw that list. unfortunately for you it's not a shock because you at the irc deal with these things on a regular basis. david millibrand is former secretary of the united kingdom and currently ceo of the international rescue commit. as always, we appreciate your time and analysis for this story. >> thank you, ali. since start of this war the

city of mykolaiv in ukraine's south has been a symbol of resilience for the ukrainian people. mykolaiv is the last bastion before russians can reach odesa which is the key point of access to the black sea. in recent days the region has seen increased russian attacks. ten people were killed and 61 injured by shelling on monday. "the washington post" reports, quote, as the russian military has withdrawn its troops from the kyiv region in an apparent shift in strategy people fear that moscow is prepairing a new offensive to gain ground in the south. over the past week there's been an increase in attacks during daylight when civilian area such as victory square are most crowded. multiple hospitals have been hit, end quote. despite the increase in attacks the resilience is still evident. the post said, quote, one business owner still opened her flower shop across the street this morning. the only things that sells are

the red carnation, a flower that is traditional played on caskets in funerals. isabel, good to see you again. i'll just show my viewers behind me a busy street right now in lviv because we're not in curfew. we're not in curfew. the country has a curfew. at night when shelling takes place it's a different situation because people are in the safety of their home or know how to get to a shelter in some places. in the daytime, you and i talked about this the other day and people try to live a normal life and the shelling suggests an escalation and it suggests that the russians need to get past mykolaiv in odesa. >> yes, a scare tactic. that's what the governor of mykolaiv is saying that the russians are frustrated and they haven't made mykolaiv a priority in a couple of weeks according

to some military analysts and what they're trying to do is this increase in attacks during the day when people are out and about, and there are cars on the streets. i mean, the incident, the attack on victory square, that's a very popular, busy bus stop, and i think there was a bus kind of there when that fell and killed ten people. so these attacks are kind of intended to create this panic and to a degree it's working. we saw hundreds of people getting on evacuation busses and some of them told us, you know, we weren't evacuating until this point. we wanted to stay here, but this is just too much. it's getting too dangerous and so the russians are doing this while not gaining ground in the south to this point. they're still in kherson. their positions haven't changed and if anything, the ukrainians are launching counterattacks into that region, but they're just doing this out of frustration and to scare people. >>. >> isabel, you are a

professional foreign correspondent in a war zone now, but there's something uniquely personal about this coverage for you and i'm curious and our viewers would be about how you deal with that. >> yeah. my family is from odesa. i still have family here. my great aunt, it's actually her birthday today so after this i'll meet her for some pizza. so it is personal. when the oil depots got hit here in odesa last weekend she was really scared and she's scared every time i go to mykolaiv because that's a little bit closer to the front lines, so to speak. you know, i've had -- it's personal because of that and it's personal by how much people i've met as a journalist who have opened up to us and who have told us about everything they've lost and it's hard, you know, not to think about how lucky my family has been that

odesa hasn't faced a major attack yet and also to empathize with them and to not let their pain kind of get to you. it does get to you, just everything people here are dealing with. this is a war about one man's kind of greed and also a lot of people who are losing everything. >> isabel, let your great aunt know that all of us at msnbc and viewers wish her a very happy birthday today and we hope that the next one is not during a war. thank you for your great reporting. isabel is a foreign correspondent for "the washington post" joining us from odesa. the inhumanities that they've displayed. new audio reveals russian soldiers openly discussing how to commit those atrocities. later in the show, a new justice

will soon be heading to the supreme court. yesterday ketanji brown jackson was confirmed by all 53 senators and three republicans, making her the first black woman ever to be confirmed to the highest court in the land and we'll get a look at her portrait and the photo was taken by leilani from the bronx. more velshi live from lviv after a quick break. m lviv after a quick break. you said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will thank you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember.

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and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. mission control, we are go for launch. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. ♪♪ ♪♪ damning new claims from germany's foreign intelligence service this week are underlining calls for war crimes investigations against russia. germany says it intercepted radio communications in which russian troops described killing ukrainians indiscriminately. soldiers and civilians alike.

"the washington post" reporting, quote, the finding further undermine russia's denials in the carnage. russia has said that atrocities are carried out only after soldiers are leefring occupied areas or scenes of massacres are staged. it will share information it has about these purported war crimes with the proper international institution, but potential assistance by the u.s. is somewhat complicated by the fact that the united states is not a part of the rome statute, the 1998 treaty that created the international criminal court which would inevitably responsible for exacting justice. joining us is the expert ona hathaway professor at yale law school and serves for international law for the state department. thank you for being with us. i want to explore this.

we are seeing two interesting things at play. one is the president of the united states and the secretary of state talking about these things that the russian military are doing in ukraine as war crimes, but -- but americans' relationships to the main place and the international criminal court that could pursue war crime trials is tenuous. >> yes. the united states has had a kind of mixed relationship, shall we say with the international criminal court. the u.s. did sign the rome statute when it first went into place under president clinton in the clinton presidency and president george bush very quickly unsigned the wrong statute and proceeded to really launch an effort to insulate the united states from any possible jurisdiction of the international criminal court over u.s. action. so that has been a real challenge in terms of the

ongoing relationship between the united states and the international criminal court. more recently, the trump administration actually put in place sanctions against the you international criminal court against the prosecutor and against judges and against lawyers because of an investigation that they were taking into u.s. actions in afghanistan. so we have quite a fraught relationship with the international criminal court. >> i want to read an article that you co-wrote and something else called a crime of aggression. in addition to establishing a tribunal under the auspices of the uven general assembly there are a number of approaches to provide accountability for the crime of aggression. these paths are not mutually exclusive or inconsistent. dommest being prosecutions in ukrainian court can and likely

will proceed alongside any effort to establish an international court. you're talking about a different international court and not the international criminal court in the haig and the establishment of a new court to deal with crimes of aggression. tell me about that. >> one of the problems we face here is that the international criminal court has jurisdiction over war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, but because of a weird glitch in the way that it works with the warm statute it can prosecute crimes of aggression committed by russians. so if that's going to happen, it's going to happen with a new court and the question is what is that new court going to be? how do we create this new court so there's a bunch of different proposals out there for creating an independent court just for the purpose of prosecuting the crime of aggression and probably the best path forward is going to be a negotiation between the

united nations and the ukraine to create a treaty for the court of the exclusive purpose of the crime of aggression and that court will go after those who planned to carry out this illegal, aggressive war against ukraine. >> thank you for your expertise and sharing it with us. this is not an area that most of us wanted to know much about, but gratefully when we do need to know about it you're available us to. ona hathaway is a professor of international law and an adviser on international law for the u.s. state department. >> most of us have learned about the rwandan genocide. many of us have mourned victims of the holocaust and now we're bearing witness to another potential genocide unfolding in ukraine, but there are many more genocidal acts happening in the dark around the globe. why we cannot look away. next. cannot look away. next

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if for whatever reason you have lingering questions about russia's intentions in this war, let me remind you of what we know. this is the missile that killed dozens of civilians at a train station in kramatorsk as they attempted to flee the bloody war. on the side of the missile that struck the station and killed those civilians including children were the words in russian "for the children."

no one knows who wrote those words or what they meant. russia denies responsibility for the attack. this comes just days after i stood right here and showed you some of the first images out of bucha, ukraine, where civilians were deliberately targeted and their bodies left dead on the streets for one reason and one reason only, that they were ukrainian. when you are killed, tortured or kidnapped as part of an organized effort simply for being a member of an identifiable group, that is called genocide. the 1948 genocide convention defines it as acts committed with intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic racial or religious group. many western governments including the united states have been cautious about labeling russia's war crimes as genocide. the u.n. convention doesn't define how many people need to be subject to the enumerated crimes for something across the line into genocide because the number doesn't matter. only the intent of the perpetrators to destroy the

targeted group does. genocide is also called the crime of crimes. it's humanity's most depraved manifestation. the most notorious in modern history is the holocaust, one of the most prolific in recent memory was rwanda and there are genocidal attacks around the country right now of which you may be unaware. genocide watch tracks and rates levels of genocide characterizing it as a watch, a warning or an emergency. a genocide emergency is declared when the genocidal process has reached the stage of genocidal massacres and other acts of genocide. as of 2021 these are the countries under a genocide emergency. in mali, islamist militias and state security forces, and the worst man made humanitarian crisis of our time thanks to the bloody war between the houthi

rebels. in iraq, isis had targeted christians and the yazidis. the rohingya muslim ethnic minor sit denied all rights and in 2015, myanmar armed forces undertook a coordinated campaign of genocide and forced displacement of the rohingya. in nigeria, the muslim extremists boko haram targets civilians especially christians in the north. the group is known for kidnapping school girls. in the central african republic both christians and muslims are killed and tortured by two warring militias because of their religious identity. in somalia, political instability are by mass atrocities. in south sudan, civilians are subjected to sexual violence, children are recruited as soldiers in the neighboring nation of suited an which includes darfur, at least 450,000 ethnic darfuri men and

women have been killed since 2003. afghanistan, as you know, is now under taliban rule and lastly, syria with russian and iranian support have sustained the assad regime and there are military there that oppose that regime. they're both committing genocidal war crimes daily. all of these countries are under a genocide emergency watch. now look what happens when you add all of the countries that are under a genocide warning, meaning that the genocidal process has reached the stages of preparation by perpetrators. ukraine is under a genocide warning, not an emergency because the reports were conducted in 2021, before the invasion. president biden has fallen short of accusing russia of genocide in ukraine and it cannot accuse another country of the gravest crime against humanity and not doing anything about it and we are bearing witness of unthinkable horrors being

unleashed in ukrainians because of who they are. when you can't or don't bear witness, when our microphones can't get in to see it the death happens in the darkness. if we see it and don't call it out for what it is and don't take every single step that we can take to stop it, what hope does the rest of the world's victims of genocide and impending genocide have? it is not enough to not look away and it is not enough to say never again. never again. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. we gotta tell people that liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need, and we gotta do it fast. [limu emu squawks]

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it has taken 232 years and 115 prior appointments for a black woman to be selected to serve on the supreme court of the united states. [ cheers and applause ] but we've made it. we have come a long way toward

perfecting our union. in my family it took just one generation to go from segregation to the supreme court of the united states. >> judge ketanji brown jackson will become the first black woman ever to serve on the supreme court. president joe biden and kamala harris hosted judge jackson at the white house where she expressed her deepest gratitude to those who supported her throughout a vitt olic confirmation process. although certain senators tried to dismiss her achievements, judge jackson has worked extremely hard for this moment. she graduated from harvard twice and worked as a public defender and served as a judge for ten years. she'll be replacing justice breyer when he retires at the end of the supreme court term in the summer and will officially begin her duties in october. although judge jackson's ascension to the highest court in the land represents the culmination of a centuries-long

struggle to ensure political equity for all american, she'll be taking her rightful place on a bench at a time when its conservative majority appears to be moving the court further away from those ideals. in case you missed it, the supreme court recently blocked a revised plan for legislative districts in wisconsin that would have created a new black voting activity rikt and that map was heavily opposed by republicans and this supreme court decision could signal another shot aimed at weakening the already weak voting rights act. in addition to rolling back voting rights, it is about ready to severely gut or outright overturn roe v. wade which establishes the right for women's rights. the president of the national women's action fund. kimberly is the co-host of the sisters in law podcast and msnbc

political analyst and the brains behind unbound, a newsletter from the e emancipator. let's start with you. in your latest article you discuss how ketanji brown jackson is in a unique position having been confirmed and not yet starting her supreme court duties in october. you write the additional time will allow jackson to fully shake off the unfounded vitriolic attack she endured during the confirmation process. she can leave behind the republican members of the senate judiciary committee who ignored her thoughtful measures about her experience and views about the rule of law and seemed only interested in smearing her in front of the cameras. it's an interesting perspective. tell us more about it. >> yes. so this is a unique, you know, for the first time this is happening -- sorry, my coffee has aren't kicked in, ali.

usually justices when they're confirmed, they go on the bench fairly quickly. if you remember amy coney barrett from the moment she was nominated it was about a month. in this case, ketanji brown jackson has three months before stephen breyer has the term and the whole summer before the next term starts. so this really gives her a really unique gift to prepare for the job ahead, to shake off everything that has happened in the past few weeks and really give the nation which seems, according to polling, to favor her a chance to get to know her. i think yesterday's speech that she gave was a good starting point of not only reminding them of this historic moment, but showing who she is and she can be defined by the republicans who opposed her. >> fatima, the supreme court is going to still have a conservative majority. that's not changing.

so what's your sense of the impact that ketanji brown jackson's voice and presence are going to have on cases that await the supreme court in the next session? >> well, you know, judge jackson brings a wealth of experience that we don't actually have in the court right now, and someone that has been a district court judge for a very long time to bring that experience and the experience of being a former federal defender. i think we will see her imprint. the other thing is that i think you will see her perspective and part of what happens in the supreme court is that they shape each other in conversation with each other, but it is true that she will largely be in dissent on a number of key cases. i think that is to be expected. i have to say it will be an interesting thing because i think that core of dissent will often be three women, and that, i think, will shape the public

perception of what is happening with this court. >> kimberly, you have -- i want to talk about other pieces of the court. you said that ginni thomas has created a conflict of interest in other cases that clarence thomas has participated in. tell me how you think so and how the january 6th committee should be handling these increasing revelations of ginni thomas and her involvement in january 6th. >> for decades, ginni thomas has been a part of conservative circles, organizations and fund-raising that advocate actively on issues that go before the supreme court. they include opposing obama care, for example. think, the supreme court, several times has considered the constitutionality of obama care. they include things like the remain in mexico approximately see which also went before the u.s. supreme court and even

citizens united, the case that gave broader ability for undisclosed groups to contribute -- make political contributions, as well. so in this way, this isn't new, but in the january 6th case, it is so direct. you have someone who was in contact with the chief of staff of the president and who also was, i presume, i talk to my united states every day, and also talking to somebody who was in the position to rule in that case. she is a key figure in the january 6th investigations and i don't know how the committee does not subpoena her if she does not vol intear to cooperate with them, and it creates a conflict for clarence thomas, of course. >> right. i think it's important that we distinguish those two separate things. ginni thomas may -- she may have her own legal problems and justice clarence thomas may have a conflict. my new political morning poll finds that the majority of

respondents feel that justice clarence thomas should recuse himself from any cases related to the 2020 election following reports that his wife helped donald trump or at least contributed to the effort to overturn the election. what's your take? >> i think this isproblem. a legitimacy question is being raised with regard to their ethics with things like the use of the shadow docket with the fact that 50-year-old precedent are hanging by a thread. the court has to look at itself, and if the public is going to have the trust that is required for it to be the pillar of our democracy that it is. >> i want to take a quick break. fatima and kimberly, please stay with me. i want to continue our conversation right after it. first, an exciting programming note for you while we're talking about legal stuff. this weekend is the launch of the "katy fang" shows. she joins us weekend was miami

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back with me, fatima, president and ceo of the national women's law center, and kimberly atkins, columnist for " -- for "the boston globe" and analyst. fatima, you said friday on msnbc, you said judge ketanji brown jackson won't be on the supreme court to hear the mississippi abortion ban case. the fact that there's no black woman on the court to hear that case is a mistake and a reminder that it's long overdue to have someone in that role. tell me more about that. >> you know, roe versus wade isn't some just academic idea. it really is determining the health and wellbeing of women in different parts of this country. and in mississippi in particular, the maternal mortality rate for black women is particularly high. the abortion bans in places like

texas and in mississippi have a disproportionate effect on black women, yet no black woman was a percent of the consideration of this case. actually, no black woman is not only on the supreme court right now, they weren't even arguing the cases on either side. it is a travesty that this might happen without her imprint voice and perspective, and i think when she takes her seat in october we will all be reminded of that, that those decisions that she will inherit will be following her. so it was a mistake historically. we have righted it now, but i think we need to be remind who'd is making these important decisions that affect the lives of blah -- black women's lives and their futures. >> kimberly, one of the important things for us non-lawyers to understand about the supreme court is that often

when there's a decision we either read the decision or most of us just read little bits of the decision that get published. the dissent is often equally if not more important because today's dissent could sow the seeds of tomorrow's decisions. >> yes. that's exactly what they are meant to do. and to be a call to action, to flag for the public why a decision according to the dissenters is wrong. and it can be used to great effect. we recall ruth bader ginsburg dissented in a case about fair pay for women, and that propelled congress to act. she directly called on them to. the first line signed into law by president barack obama, the lily ledbetter act, made it easier for women to seek redress when they were being paid unequally. so it can have a real impact. it can certainly speak to the ages, speak to the future, and be a warning of what is coming ahead. i know sonia sotomayor has

issued some really blistering dissents defending affirmative action programs in college, something else that the court will be considering again. i think we will see a lot of dissents from justice jackson. >> and fatima, that could be like kimberly talks about ruth bader ginsburg, that could be a defining role for her whale we have this court that is politically so imbalanced as it is. >> i think that's right. i have to say as a lawyer, i actually start by reading the dissents typically to really understand the perspective no matter who's writing the majority opinion. it is a better way to understand that there was an ultimate view in real time, and it is a way to understand the future that might come. >> i think that is -- i didn't know that used to be a thing or didn't know it to be a thing, and i've started thinking about that as a thing now to say look

at the totality of how the supreme court has looked at an issue. we're so appreciative of your time, to both of you. thank you for joining us. fatima, president and ceo of the national women's law center, kimberly, columnist for "the boston globe." she's a co-host of "the sisters-in-law" podcast and an msnbc political analyst. thank you for watching. i'll be back here in lviv tomorrow morning starting at 8:00 eastern. don't go anywhere. "the cross connection" with tiffany cross begins right now. good morning, everybody, and welcome to "the cross connection." we have a jam-packed show. first we want to begin with the latest out of ukraine. listen, i need to warn some of you that the following footage is graphic and extremely difficult to watch. so if you need to look away, now would be the time.

for the children, the seemingly innocent phrase became a chilling and haunting message written on the side of what u.s. officials describe as a russian short-range missile that struck a train station in the donbas region of ukraine on friday where about 4,000 civilians were attempting to flee the war zone. the attack left at least 50 people dead and almost 100 wounded according to ukrainian officials. now we really don't know who wrote that message or -- on the suspected missile or even when it was written, but it could be a potential reference to the russian propaganda lie that ukraine has been killing russian-speaking children in the donbas region. as we head into day 45 of this conflict, the russian defense ministry is actually accusing ukraine of carrying out the attack and says allegations that russia is responsible with a provocation. joining me now from lviv is nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez. please tell me what you're seeing on the ground. you've been at a local tra