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the next generation of wifi. it's ultra-fast. faster than a gig. supersonic wifi. only from xfinity. it can power hundreds of devices with three times the bandwidth. so your growing wifi needs will be met. supersonic wifi only from us... xfinity. city. welcome to alex witt reports, i'm yasmin vossoughian. we want to begin with breaking news on the war in ukraine. new video released by russian state tv from the southern city of mariupol, they say explosions and fires erupted around the port yesterday and claimed russian ships from being blocked by pro-ukrainian fighters. nbc nous is not able to independently verify these

claims or when this video was actually taken. ukraine bracing for a fierce battle in mariupol. maxar technologies saying satellite images captured friday showed a military convoy of hundreds of trucks with toed artillery and support equipment. all of it moving south. british and american officials saying they're racing against time to supply weapons to help ukraine's military fend off the russians. >> we are doing everything we can as the united states, working around the clock to deliver our own weapons. as the foreign minister said, organizing and coordinating the delivery of weapons from many other countries so ukraine has what it needs. weapons are arriving every day including today. >> ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy saying today he wants peace, wants the war to end and is willing to put aside emotions to work with those who are

torturing, he said, his nation. meanwhile the russian military claiming it destroyed a ukrainian armored carrier. and nbc news has confirmed that russia has, in fact, installed a new military general in charge of the war in ukraine. we'll get more into that and what we know about him and what this means about a change in strategy. also new today, ukrainian soldiers showed reporters what they say is a bees camp near kharkiv abandoned by russian soldiers and a new update on war crimes. ukraine's chief prosecutors saying they have 5600 active war crime investigations with 500 suspects so far. she explained why vladimir putin is not among them. >> putin is war criminal of the 21st century. we understand it. but all of us respect

international law. three positions in national jurisdictions have functional immunity, it is president, prime minister and minister of foreign affairs. >> let's get into all of this. we have nbc news crews in places around the world. ali arouzi is in lviv, karen sew and charlotte reed are in paris. ali, let me start with you on this one. the russian convoy heading towards the donbas region, the eastern part of ukraine. how are ukrainian military fighters preparing for this looming battle ahead. >> hi, yasmin. they're bracing for an all-out assault in the donbas area. we've been hearing it for days, weeks, in fact, that the russians are going to refocus all of their efforts on that area. it looks likes it's coming. that convoy eight miles long

packed with tanks, armored vehicles, an all out battle for the donbas area. what we know now, as you mentioned, the russians appointed a new general, general dvornikov. he had been hailed a hero in russia. westerners say he launched a brutal attack on the syrians. he had attacked hospitals, civilian locations. they're expecting much of that in the donbas area. what we know is that convoy is heading to a city called iziam that was captured last week by the russians. that's going to be a launching pad, a serious launching pad to take the city of slovyansk. it was taken in 2014 by the russians when they attacked the crimea area. the ukrainians took it back in this war. it's going to be pivotal for the russians to take that city in order to launch all their forces

into the donbas area. it's going to be by all accounts a very brutal, bloody conflict. the ukrainians are digging in, fought a valiant effort so far. from everything they're saying now, they'll do their best. let's listen to what the foreign minister had to say. >> so the reality is that we know how to fight. we're capable. i believe it will not be an exaggeration to say that ukraine proves to have one of the strongest armies in the world, maybe the second strongest after the united states. all we need is state-of-the-art weapons of all kinds supplied to us. we propose to the west and to nato a fair deal, you provide us with everything that we need and we fight so that you don't have to step up in the fight. >> yasmin, he makes a very good point. the russians have about 900,000

army personnel ready to fight. ukrainians have about 200,000. but they've held off this massive russian onslaught on their country. from the be going of this war they've done it pretty much on their own. they eve only been given light arms, bullets, should are-mounted anti-rocket and anti-aircraft missiles. now it looks like they're getting a lot more stuff, like the s-30 systems. they're asking for more. they say they need planes and tanks to fight off the russians. even though the russians have 900,000 personnel and the ukrainians have 200,000, the russian armament is massive compared to what the ukrainians have. they need all of that hardware which the brits are saying they're going to give them some advance hardware going forward. without that hardware it's going to be really tough to hold the russians back. it looks like it's coming their

way. the more brutal the attacks have been, the more hardware the international community seems to be giving them. >> ali, as always, thank you for your analysis and reporting. i'll be speaking with you throughout the next three hours. i appreciate you. stay close as we have new developments, especially on the horrific attacks on civilians in bucha. ukraine president zelenskyy saying he has evidence implicating russian soldiers in those attacks. here is what he told 60 minutes. >> translator: the ukrainian security service has intercepted communications, he told us, there are russian soldiers talking to their parents about what they stole and who they abducted. there are recordings of russians prisoners of war who admitted killing people. there are pilots in prison who had maps with civilian targets to bomb. >> let's get into this. i want to bring in mark, a

former senior intelligence officer at the cia responsible for overseeing all the agency's operations in europe and eurasia, author of "clarity in crisis, leadership lessons from the cia." let's talk first ability the intercepted technicians. "the new york times" reporting this, specifically russian soldiers say, you interrogate them and literally kill them. we know the discoveries in bucha were horrific. men with their hands tied behind their backs, killed execution style. is this the type of evidence needed to prosecute war crimes? >> that's 100% right. it's also report thad the u.s. intelligence community has been tasked to collect on war crimes. that's important. as we focus on the immediate need for ukraine to defend itself against russia, there will be a time in the future where this issue of war crimes comes up. to be able to properly document

it using all allied service is important. let's also be clear there's been tremendous open source reporting on this. they've had really documented images of the atrocities. so put together, this is really important. >> here is what i wonder. how do you go up the chain, the chain of command? yes, there are generals on the ground, higher-ups on the ground giving these directives to the soldiers to move ahead this way, but how do you connect it if, in fact, you can, back to vladimir putin? >> what a great question. i think we look back to history. remember in the balkan wars we had prisoners indicted forward crimes. there were senior members of bosnian serbs who were indicted and went to jail forward crimes. it's a matter of collecting intelligence, but you build a slow, steady, methodical case, and it does go to the top.

>> i'm interested to know your thoughts, just kind of -- your overarching thoughts on these numbers coming out of reuters saying -- and of course i want to pref fis that saying these are state-run polling agencies right now vladimir putin has an 80-plus-percent approval rating, and, by the way, up about 67% before the war began. >> it's not a terrible surprise. first of all, about 300,000 russians have left, those will be the technocrats, the youth. there's an information vacuum there, and with kind of this historic notion of the russian people banding together in time of crisis. putin is going to take advantage of this. i don't think we should stop in trying to push the truth inside to russia. ultimately putin is sadly enjoying a polling boost -- boom from this. it shouldn't stop us from how we prosecute the war and shouldn't stop us from pushing the truth

in to the russian people. >> tell me, marc, what you know about general dvornikov, his relationship with putin? >> i think we're rightly concerned with this. he is a veteran of the syrian campaign. look, i spent a lot of time in the middle east, and in particular focusing on syria. the russian air force was barbaric in their actions. they killed over 4,000 syrian civilians. if you look at that as kind of the model of what's to come in the east, i think there's reason to be concerned. obviously russia needed an overall commander. i think their logistics command and control were a mess. i'm not surprised they did this. the choice of this individual is concerning. >> basically what i'm hearing you say is essentially -- if we're thinking about what happened in aleppo, that was civilian target after civilian target, talking schools, hospitals. that was russia under fire saying we have to fight back and make sure we don't lose footing here. this guy was in charge of what happened in aleppo?

i'm also reading he was a fighter on the ground in chechnya. >> that's right. this is the russian way of war. this is mayor modus operandi. whether it's him or someone else -- if it was anyone else it might be similar. this is what they're going to do. this is their tactic, and the west is going to have to deal with this now. there's going to be brutal images coming out over the next couple minutes. >> brutal more so than what we've already seen, i can't imagine what's to come. marc, we always appreciate your voice on this. hope you come back. more breaking news right now. new overseas, polls have just closed in france on the tightly contested presidential election. we have new numbers from the exit polls. president emmanuel macron has been holding the narrowist of leads against marine le pen in a race that could have incredibly significant political implications.

karen, let me start with you on this one. we were expecting exit polls to come out soon. what is the mood there as we await this? >> good evening from paris. i can tell you the mood here is enthusiastic, but at the same time very tense. you may recall that this is an election that has flown under the radar for weeks, playing second fiddle to the war in ukraine. it's only been on the eve of this election that concern is growing that france may be setting up for a seismic shift in politics that could potentially disrupt europe. the first exit poll came a short time ago as the major polling stations across the country just closed. what we have seen, the gap is wider than expected. 28 for emmanuel macron, the president, just over 23 for far right challenger, seen as a french donald trump, at just over 23. the far left, jean-luc at just

over 20. i can tell you when the first exit poll was released, we did see cheering by the crowd here, the supporters of macron certainly enthusiastic. i stood in exactly the same spot five years ago and macron was seen as a movement, a breath of fresh air, a call for change. don't forget no president in france in the last 20 years has been re-elected, so it's quite a fight he has in front of him. the question is who turns out now in the second round in two weeks. last time he had the left come in to support him. there's concerns about so much anger over his reform program, the cost of living crisis, the war in ukraine, that he may face a challenge getting the same supporters to turn up. we're seeing this time turnout has been low. that's a trend we've seen in france by a number of years. at 5:00 it was estimated it was down by about four points. it may have some bearing.

emmanuel macron is calling still for huge reform, change to the pension system, changing working conditions in france. he's up against a populist in marine le pen that's been promising very large tax cuts here that may help shield the population from inflation. inflation is running roughly over 5%, a couple points lower than across europe emergency use authorization macron did step in and ask the major energy companies to take on the huge burden of rising energy prices. still, it may not be enough to ward off the challenger this time. >> karen, is there at all a fear there at macron headquarters that if, in fact, he were to lose, france would lose its footing inside nato? we look at macron as a leader during this time of merrill in europe as russia continues its invasion, its war on inside ukraine. macron has met several times as well. the go-between during this

perilous time. is there a fear that if le pen, who is essentially friendly with putin, if she wins, there could be a major power shift? >> reporter: that's a fantastic point. if you think this time around in 2017 we were talking about a country living in a state of emergency after a speight of terror attacks. but it's changed. emmanuel macron seen as a power broker to initially try to ward off the invasion with regular fon calls to vladimir putin. a campaign document had a photo of her shaking hands with president putin, but has also raised comments in the past about the role of france in nato. france has pulled out of nato before. she has tried to double down and push back against some of her previous comments condemning the invasion. still there are question marks around what this would mean for

sanctions. she's made comments before about being concerned that russia will realign with china. nato membership has been one of the big concerns, too. the unity of europe, she's not calling of exit from the european union, but a pushback against brussels that could disrupt the unity. >> certainly a tense time in paris. karen, we appreciate your reporting very much so. we'll be checking back as the exit polls come out. over to le pen's campaign headquarters where we find charlotte reed. bring us up to date on the mood on the ground. >> reporter: they are happy here. she arrived second in the polls.

a good score for the far right candidate. she was at 21% in 2017, so she's improved her score. the gap between her and emmanuel macron has grown this time around. now the challenge would be the next two weeks of running and campaigning between these two. there's no doubt that her connections to russia and to the kremlin will be exposed massively by the macron camp. we know she had photos in 2017 shaking hands with vladimir putin that she's a little embarrassed with in this campaign since the war in ukraine. there's no doubt the macron camp is going to try to expose this as much as possible. in the next two weeks, we'll hear who all the candidates that have lost will support. traditionally parties support the most centrist candidates to block the far right. you hear some reaction as a center right candidate has called to vote for emmanuel

macron. you hear reaction at the marine le pen camp not being happy. the candidates will go for who they support. the next two weeks it will be gloves off between emmanuel macron and marine le pen. >> charlotte reed, thank you as well. my next guest everybody just went to mar-a-lago and his interview with the former president made a lot of news. another article he wrote, this one, is also drawing interest. we'll dawsey of "the washington post" next. can. kayak. search one and done. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it.

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week directly from former president trump's mar-a-lago estate making headlines, especially with one of the claims trump made during a 45-minute interview with "the washington post's" josh dawsey. josh is joining me now. i'm going to get to this surreal article about a party at

mar-a-lago. but i first want you to describe, josh, the mood of the former president, the surroundings of the former president when you met with him. >> sure. i met with the former president on wednesday. he was preoccupied throughout the interview with the notion that his grip on the party had faded. he wanted readers and others to know that lots of folks were still singing his endorsements. his numbers were higher than any of the republicans. he was pretty defiant about january 6th as well. i asked him if he regretted whipping up those folks on the left into a frenzy. he said, no, he wished he could have marched with him and the secret service wouldn't let him. he also said that the events of that day, he doesn't take any responsibility for them at all. so there was a defiance about january 6th and kind of a sense

that he wanted to let everyone know he's looking to run for president and he remains the predominant force in the gop. >> here is what you wrote about his obsession with 2020 and the fact that he believes he won that election. trump declined to relinquish the fantastical idea that he could be reinstated as president after he lost the election, a notion that has been roundly mocked by republicans and even some of his advisers. it seems as if, as we're watching the former president's endorsements of others, that you must believe he won the 2020 election if you are going to gain his support. he sees that as his red line. >> i directly asked him that, if that was his litmus test, if someone had to concur with his claim that the election was stolen. he wouldn't really answer it. he said he had not thought about it directly. if you look at his endorsements, he's not endorsed anyone, best i

could tell, who has not mimicked or concurred or visibly supported his claims of fraud. that seems to be a through line in almost all of his endorsements. the part about whether or not he could be reinstated, i asked him if he had asked mo brooks, the congressman from alabama to help him. mo brooks said in a statement that trump did that. he said no. i said, you don't think he could be reinstated. he said i didn't say that. i just didn't ask mo brooks. it's remarkable that 17 months later he's still holding on to the notion he could be reinstated. some of his advisers say he will just never give it up basically. >> did you seek him out or did he seek you out? >> what do you mean by that? >> for this interview? did you reach out to his camp and say we want to sit down and

do this interview, or did his camp reach out to you? >> we asked for the interview. we asked for the interview. we were down at mar-a-lago. we asked him to talk and he was willing to talk. we cover him and cover a lot of the other gop candidates in the field pretty closely. i think his comments made news on a number of fronts. if he's going to be running for president in 2024, i think it's important that everyone knows what they thinks about these things. >> i want to read your incredibly beautifully written description of this party at mayor mar-a-lago. at the gilded mar-a-lago where an air force one model is it on the table and hundreds of tributes to president hung on the wall. no one challenged any of trump's claims about the election. the outside world where he has often struggled to break 40% in popularity and his grip on the republican party has faded some

seemed planets away from the mangrove bushes, palm trees and ostentatiously gold rooms of mar-a-lago. gold rooms, josh dawsey. it seems as if mar-a-lago is in its own reality, its own bubble. >> what's striking is that he has hordes of people who surround him, a lot of them paying to be there, either working for him or paying to be there or in fund-raisers there. he basks in adulation. every time he walks in the room everyone stands up and cheers. when he leaves, everyone stands up and cheers. his presidency was a quite polarizing presidency. he had loyal supporters but struggled to convert independents and moderates and others. that's why he was a one-term president. but down there, everyone around

him loves him. it's kind of a surreal place to be where everybody in every room, he is the center of the universe there. >> are his media exposures still controlled as reported when he was inside the white house? do you know anything about what he's reading or watching the kind of build on this bubble that he lives in in mar-a-lago surrounded by people that only support him? >> he still consumes a lot of news. even though he's off twitter, he looks at the twitter feeds of lots of reporters. he gets the "new york post," "the new york times." he reads us, the "wall street journal," a lot of right wing press. watches fox a lot. as much as he talks about it, he watches fox the most. he tunes in to cnn and msnbc at times. he's a consummate consumer of the news, particularly about him. you get the sense that it has not changed. one of the things he did when i walked in to interview him was

start critiquing things i had written about him, wanting to dispute paragraphs of things at times. he's reading it all. >> i'm sure you handled it well, josh dawsey, thank you for joining us on this and writing that piece. >> thanks, yasmin. you remember the trucker convoy that protested in washington, it's back and popping up in another major u.s. city. whether the message is still the same, that's next. new poligrip power hold and seal. clinically proven to give strongest hold, plus seals out 5x more food particles. fear no food. new poligrip power hold and seal.

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over air quality concerns. at least 67 people who attended d.c.'s gridiron dinner last weekend have tested positive, including through cabinet secretaries, two house members and one senator. right now hundreds of people are set to protest covid restrictions and mandates in downtown l.a. among them is a group of truck task force dubbed the people's convoy. nbc's brandy zadrosny has more. what has prompted today's protest? what's expected? >> reporter: well, this is ostensibly a protest against vaccine mandates. that's why they're here. they had a similar rally in november in d.c. they say they're here to protest mandates. as people all across the country know, especially in california, the mandates are being lifted all over. there are no mandates anymore to go in public spaces for masks or

vaccines. we're really seeing what this is, it is a true anti-vaccination protest. the same players are here that were in front of state capitols in 2019 and 2020 protesting regular childhood vaccinations. they're back out again. i was at d.c. and i'm here. i have to say the turnout is smaller than we expected. for me, i look around and i think that's a public health win. >> we'll be following you throughout the next few hours. i'll check back in with you. i know that protest gets up and running around 3:00 p.m. eastern time. we'll get back to you then. for now you can always hear much more from brandy in her new podcast "tiffany dover is dead." she calls it one of the internet's weirdest obsessions. the sad reality of the war

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( ♪♪ ) let's get back to the war in ukraine. as an eight-mile russian military convoy makes its way towards the south, ukrainian officials are urging residents to flee. more than 1 million people are displaced according to the u.n. we find dasha burns standing by in warsaw. dasha, we know a lot of people are still continuing to flee ukraine amidst this war seeking refuge and safety, especially from the eastern parts, that they, in fact, have said behind until now. that being said, you're also seeing people go back. >> reporter: yasmin, that's exactly right. for the first several weeks of the war at the border crossings in poland, the traffic went in

one direction, whether by foot, by train, by car. it was from ukraine into poland, from war into safety, but now, when you go to these crossings, you see traffic flowing in both directions. some families starting to make the difficult decision that being in danger at home is better than not being at home at all. and in the last week, since last sunday, 157,000 ukrainian refugees returned. you may wonder why, why would you go back. i asked the question of everyone. oftentimes the answer is as simple as wives miss their husbands, parents miss their children and children miss their parents. i want you to hear some of the conversations we had. take a listen. >> translator: everything was fine, but when i started my job, i realized my thoughts are all in ukraine. you know, i can't see my

parents. i know they can call me, but still it was not enough. >> translator: our country is the best. this is our mother land. ukrainians are so cool. they're so friendly. our people are amazing. i just love my country that much. that's why i want to go back. >> reporter: you heard it there, yasmin. so many people were living good lives here in poland. they had generous hosts. they were starting to work, but they missed home, and that is something we've heard from everyone that we have spoken with and that's the decision that a lot of families have decided to make, that they want to be on ukrainian soil. they want to face this war together rather than apart, yasmin. >> we can never imagine the decisions that they have to make, why they make them. but home is home. i'm sure many of them are

missing their homes right now and missing being separated from their family members who have had to stay behind. dasha burns, as always, thank you for your reporting on this. joining me from greece is pennsylvania congressman brendan boyle from the house ways and means budget committees. congressman, great to talk to you this hour. thanks for joining us on this. do i have you, congressman? >> i am here but it appears there's a problem with the video. >> as long as i can hear your audio, that's all we need. we just need to talk. i know you're there, part of the u.s. delegation september for the nato summit. tell us what's being discussed right now that you can share with us as it pertains to the war in ukraine. and it seems as if we just lost the congressman. he's dropped out entirely. we're going to try to get him

back, of course, because we do want to speak with the congressman as they're discussing what happens with the war in ukraine and what we can do, what will need to be done if it lasts for years, as is being said by joint chief of staff mark milley. what trump's former personal lawyer said this morning about roadmap to an absolute indictment next.

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we had some technical difficulties before the break. seems as if we got the congressman back, congressman brendan boyle of pennsylvania now in greece. do i have you? >> great to be with you. >> thanks for sticking with us. always have technical difficulties on live television. it happens. i know you're there for the u.s. congressional delegation sent to greece for this weekend's nato

parliamentary assembly summit. give me a behind the scenes picture of what you're talking about that you can share with us when it comes to the war in ukraine. >> my fellow parliamentarians and i from the nato countries, we met in the greek parliament today in what is the equivalent of their house of representatives so we could debate and discuss statements and resolutions, and the thing that i'm struck by, which is frankly quite a contrast, just total unanimity and real resolve on the part of everyone to meet this moment and to meet this challenge. i was in brussels in the days immediately preceding the invasion. you could tell the seriousness and the kind of somber overtones of that meeting. it has carried through to

athens. >> i'm happy you bring this up, this total unified -- when it comes to nato. that's what you're feeling on the ground there. is there a worry, is there a concern that there could be a fissure in this unification, this moment of unity at nato if, in fact, the french election goes in a different decks with marine le pen being elected the leader? >> well, i'm -- as a member of congress, it would be inappropriate for me to inject myself into the domestic politics of another country. that said, i think it is quite clear that the overwhelming majority of parliamentarians here this weekend are very concerned about what is going on in france. if weave learned anything about politics over the last five or six years, don't believe it when someone tells you that a certain candidate can't win. the polls right now, i've seen two that show le pen within two

points of macron. le pen is someone who is part and parcel of the empty right wing demagoguery of vladimir putin and viktor orban. if that would be along with germany, the very censure of europe, the censure of the eu, so even if le pen didn't pull france entirely out of nato, she could still do a remarkable amount of damage to the a alliance. >> fair to say there's some nervousness in greece right now as you all are meeting there for this weekend summit. i also want to talk about what we heard from joint chiefs of staff chairman mark milley saying essentially this week about the war in ukraine, this thing could go on for years. we know the united states so far, nato as well, spended hundreds of millions in aid. rightfully so, for the ukrainians, and helping them fight the russians. that said, if this goes on for years, has there been discussion as to how the u.s., how nato

lasts when it comes to giving this aid to ukraine? >> well, let's take a step back and recognize, this war is not just going on for the last six weeks. the fighting has been going on in the donbas for eight years. >> yeah. >> the putin invasion and takeover of crimea was in 2014. so i think it's more than a possibility. i think that it is, if anything, a probability that this will last a long time. and as far as what that does to nato's resolve, remember, nato stood firm for 45 years against soviet communist expansionism. so i don't doubt our willingness to be there in the months and even years ahead to support the ukrainian fight for freedom. >> what about the money, though, congressman? it's a heck of a lot of money. i'm not saying it's not justified. that's not at all the argument i'm making. it's more just a question of how

long it goes on, if we're looking at a five, six, ten-year-long war, and we're giving exponentially to aid in ukraine. that's going to start to cause issues, especially domestically here in the united states. >> that's a fair point. i just voted for, as did an overwhelming majority of members of congress of both parties, voted for a $13.5 billion aid package to ukraine. in terms of humanitarian assistance, economic assistance, and defensive assistance. but i think that the vast majority of my constituents are with me on this, and polls that i see show that that's pretty consistent across the united states. people recognize the stakes here, that if we allow putin to win in ukraine, this will not end with just ukraine. >> congressman brendan boyle, thank you for sticking with us through that. i'll let you get back to it. appreciate you joining us. >> a critical new twist, everybody, today in the manhattan d.a.'s investigation

into trump's businesses. trump's former person attorney and so-called fixer michael cohen said the manhattan d.a. returned documents he submitted as documents. here's how he explains it to katie phang this morning. >> the fact they returned this box of documents that i had provided, which in and of itself is a road map to an absolute indictment and prosecution of not just donald but the children, the organization, allen weisselberg as well, the fact they returned it to me is to me a clear indication that the case is not going to go forward. >> all right, let's talk about this. a former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney joining me now. thank you so much for joining us on this. give me what that says to you. tell me what that says to you if in fact they have returned this box of evidence now to michael cohen. >> well, i can definitely see why there's an argument to be made at the d.a. alvin bragg is no longer interested in pursuing

this case. but at the same time, a d.a. has discretion. a d.a. knows more than what cohen may know or anybody else for that matter outside of that office knows. and so in order to go after someone like trump, right, trump organization, people affiliated with the organization, you have to dot your is and cross your ts so i'm not sure what it could clearly mean to return those documents. maybe they have what they need. maybe they no longer need those documents to move forward. maybe it does mean they have given up, but i don't think we need to jump to conclusions and i don't think anything is really clear just because documents were sent back. >> there was a curious statement before this released by the manhattan d.a. saying this, we are investigating thoroughly and following the facts without fear or -- and by the way, this is coming as mark pomeranz said the d.a. told him there were doubts about indicting trump.

>> you know, i have talked to alvin bragg before, as a candidate for d.a. and when he won. and what is very clear about alvin bragg is he is not going to be influenced by outside factors. he's going to look at the law, he's going to look at the facts. and again, this is something that we are assuming just based on reporting, something that cohen might have said. he said/she said, a lot of talk. we don't understand what is actually within that office, what the evidence they have seen and evaluated. of course, when you are ready to indict something, you don't need a whole lot evidence. you just need probable cause. however, prosecutors look at whether they can actually take the evidence and actually win if they were to go to trial. so even though cohen talks about, you know, the prosecutor has enough to move forward, yes, we have all heard that statement that prosecutors can indict a ham sandwich. that's very true, however, they are looking at the long term here. at least i would. can we actually take what we have and actually win in a court of law.

if that's not the case, we still need to do more digging, more investigation before we move forward with this with any indictments. >> the former president has a couple legal challenges that he's dealing with right now, him and his organization. the doj announcing an investigation into the former president's removal of those official white house documents, about 15 boxes or so. what do you make of this? >> well, listen. what i know about the doj is if they're investigating something, they are not going to make any remarks about their ongoing investigation because again, it could hamper their ongoing investigation. but yes, were there federal records law violations in that trump might have taken records from the white house to a location that was not, that wasn't given back to the national archives? that is a violation of federal law and the doj is looking into that. the house committee is also wanting to look into it, and they're asking for the national archives to give them information, but they have been

stopped by the doj from doing so. and that could only mean that they are investigating themselves into whether there are federal violations. again, they will not make comments on anything that's ongoing because again, that would jeopardize their ongoing investigation into this. it looks like trump was supposed to turn over all documents when he left the white house and he didn't, and he took them to mar-a-lago. that looks on its face like a violation of federal law. >> and we had that reporting from maggie haberman there were documents that may have been flushed down the toilet, confiscated illegally as well. thanks so much. >> that will do it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. almost finished it off. i got two more hours, everybody. i'm not leaving yet. stick with me. i'll see you after the break. fast 5g ultra wideband internet to power your entire home. (mom) i'm ordering pizza!

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