. hi, everybody. good afternoon. thanks for sticking with me. i'm yasmin vossoughian. we're covering a lot of ground in the hour ahead. we have major new developments in ukraine. a new russian general, and an ommous new satellite images pointing to a strategy reset from vladimir putin that puts millions more people in danger. this new video had been released by russian tv. they say it shows fires and explosions at the port in mariupol where russian ships were being blocked by ukrainian fighters. nbc news is not able to independently confirm the video or those claims as of yet. we're also getting the first results in a french election with global implications for the balance of power in europe and the very future of the western coalition at the u.s. needs. and a new development in a arrest of a woman for a self-induced abortion that sparked protests in texas. and breaking news from former trump fixer michael cohen on the

new york investigation of donald trump. >> also this hour, a story that you're definitely going to want to see because it involves money stolen from all of us during this pandemic. results of a two-year investigation into how lax rules from the trump administration allowed shady operators to steal a fortune meant to help fight covid. >> we want to begin, though, with newly released images out of ukraine showing a large military convoy made up of hundreds of armored vehicles, trucks, and artillery spanning at least eight miles. the images captured on friday show the convoy moving south through a small town about 16 miles east of kharkiv. nbc's ali arouzi is joining me from lviv to give us more details on all of this. we don't have a whole lot of information on kind of the shift in strategy here and the buildup so far. walk us through what we know so far and how ukrainian officials have been reacting. >> hi, yasmin. what we're learning from

ukrainian intelligence and western intelligence is that that eight-mile convoy is a lot of hardware on it. they have artillery, tanks, armored vehicles. as you said, they're east of kharkiv now. but all the intelligence seems to point to them heading south to a town called isium which the russians captured last week and they want to use as a launching pad to get to a city that is going to be a launching pad to take in the whole of the eastern part of ukraine, the donbas region. if the russians can capture that area, it's going to give them a really strong foothold to take donbas region and they're expecting a very heavy fight there. and they're not just heading there with new military equipment. they have a new brass, a new general that's heading up the operations here. general dvornikov. he's being put in here to head the whole operation here in russia. they didn't have a central

commander before that, but they have somebody who is now overseeing this entire operation to give it cohesion, which it didn't have before, and he has a reputation for being a pretty brutal general. he has a reputation from syria. let's take a listen to what the ukrainian foreign minister had to say about what's coming to the donbas region. >> and it's true to say that ukraine won the battle for kyiv. now, another battle is coming. the battle for donbas, and of course, we are preparing, working with our partners to get all necessary weapons and basically everything that one needs to win a battle. >> and like i said, they're expecting a big battle there. the russian troops have left the kyiv area, they have left northern ukraine, and their entire focus is now going to be on the donbas area. a lot of intelligence was saying before they had spread themselves too thin at the

beginning of the war, so this looks like a big battle and it's important for the russians and general dvornikov because he wants to make his mark here. if by making his mark would be taking the entire donbas area, but the ukrainians are saying they're going to fight tooth and nail there, and they're saying they need advanced hardware to fight there. they don't need it next week, they don't need it next month. they need it right now to push the russian attack back and take the donbas area back into ukrainian territory. >> considering what general dvornikov led in syria and aleppo specifically, it is incredibly concerning as to what may be ahead for the eastern part of ukraine where the russian military is closing in on. thank you for joining us on this. we're going to talk again at the top of the next hour. >> coming up in the next half hour, i'm going to be joined by a member of the ukrainian parliament to talk about what ukraine is facing right now. >> want to get to a breaking story in france with far

reaching implications, where exit polls now indicate amanual macron will face far right nationalist marine le pen in a faceoff for the french presidency with a backdrop of war on the eu's eastern border. this election could reshape france's post war identity and predict the future of european populism. charlotte reed is in paris for us. charlotte, thanks for joining us. let's talk first about the mood where you are right now amongst le pen's supporters. >> certainly festive this evening. a lot of people here celebrating and having a drink, and look, it is a sigh of relief. they are in the second round of this election, but look, marine le pen was a little lower than they expected and the last polls we had on friday, she came out at 23%, and emmanuel macron, there will be a sigh of relief in that camp because they were nervous in the last few days of the campaign, he started late in the campaign because of the war in ukraine.

he was kept busy with the job. he had a little campaigning and kanl really late. there were rumors that maybe marine le pen, the far right candidate, could come first in the first round election, but it is not the case. emmanuel macron with 28% is well in the lead, and actually widened the gap that they had in 2017, so it's a replay for the second round of macron against le pen. but now the next two weeks will be crucial. now the gloves are really off between the two candidates. >> talk to me about what is driving le pen's campaign right now. >> well, look, she is a far right candidate. she has talked a lot about immigration in the past, but of course, she's tried to smooth her image recently, so there have been politically very savvy, and she's focused her campaign more on the cost of sasking and social issues and talked about the forgotten france and people who have been left behind. that's resonated with a lot of

voters. it has been the top issue here for french voters, a top concern, and even more since the war in ukraine started with higher energy prices, higher commodity prices. people are worried, seeing the energy bills rising. so she's talked to these people a lot. but now will be hard for her to stay away from this line. the next two weeks we know she had sympathies to vladimir putin that will very much be exposed in the next two weeks by the macron camp. there were photos of her in the 2017 campaign shaking hands with vladimir putin. she talked about the russian president as the example of the patriot she would want to be. the macron camp will push with that line and say if you vote for marine le pen, you will have vladimir putin in the presidency of france, so certainly, that would be a hard sell. >> there's certainly a concern, it seems, charlotte, amongst leaders of nato, right, that are watching this election incredibly closely, wondering if

in fact marine le pen does end up on top to win this election, it could cause a major balance of power shift. a major fissure amongst nato, especially because of what she has said about nato in the past. what are her supporters there saying about her alliance and friendship with vladimir putin? >> yes, she talks about that she wants an alliance of nations, but suddenly, she said she wanted france out of the integrated command of nato. i spoke to a lot who say whether in this current context, she still stuck to the line, and she said yes, she had the goal to be independent and france was to obtain its independence, but in the current context, this is a difficult line to maintain. a lot of people are concerned about the environment, and a lot of countries that are not in nato want teenternato.

countries like finland are making the decision they want to join nato. this is a difficult line for marine le pen to push at the moment. >> charlotte reed, thank you. want to move now back here to the united states and to south texas where a district attorney says he does not plan to prosecute a woman who had been charged with murder for her role in an abortion. in a statement released a short time ago, the star county d.a. says his office is filing a motion to dismiss the indictment against lizez herrera, saying it's clear she, quote, cannot and should not be prosecuted for the allegation against her. news of the arrest sparked protests outside the jail where the 26-year-old was in custody. and has left many texans asking what actually happened? joined now by carolina cuellar who reports on the border for the texas public radio. carolina, apoloies if i pronounced your name wrong, but i tried to do my best with that. talk to me about this case. what we know so far, why this

happened in the first place and how they got now to the point that they will in fact no longer be charging this woman. >> so this case actually broke when a reporter was actually just looking up reports, so as far as primary sources, we have very little. we have the indictment that was unsealed, and we have that recent statement that came out from the d.a. what we do know is that lizel was reported by a hospital in january after which the sheriff's county department conducted an investigation for the last three months, and that's what led to an arrest last week. we also know that yesterday, there was a protest outside of the county jail which i covered. and shortly after that, they decided to release her on bail and dismiss her charges. >> she was reported by a hospital back in january for performing an abortion on herself? >> we don't know the circumstances around the report.

as far as we know, it's a self-induced abortion. the hospital reported something having to do with the incident. and the d.a.'s statement itself, he did not specify what is being referred to as the incident. we have no idea what the details were around her pregnancy at the point at which she conducted a self-induced abortion, but superficially, we know the hospital reported her after she had a self-induced abortion. >> we know obviously texas really restrictive abortion laws now. you cannot get an abortion in the state of texas once you detect a fetal heartbeat, which this law says is around six weeks. is this arrest and subsequent release, is this related to that vigilante style law in texas? >> so from what i have spoken to where legal experts, the charge that she is charged with is actually separate from what you were speaking about, which is senate bill 8. however, they do say that the

legislation, the language around senate bill 8 does incentivize everyday private citizens to sort of report women who want to get abortions. have emboldened certain prosecutors or emboldened people to push the limits of what they can do in terms of abortion, reporting women who want to get abortion. while this is not directly related to senate bill 8, there is -- there are thoughts or there is buzz around it sort of being a consequence of these growing restrictions around abortion, especially in states like texas that are very much sort of increasing the amount of policing they have over women who want to get abortions. >> and are we seeing protests? how are texans reacting to this? >> so down here in south texas, the protests from yesterday was very sparsely populated. as far as i have seen, there have been no other protests down here. but the outcry has been on a

national scale. i think we have been in the national news. there's not a lot of reporters down here, but there are people who are sharing her story, there are people being very vigilant over social media of what's going on. in terms of actual physical protests, there haven't been many. the star county jail did disconnect their phone line yesterday because they were receiving so many calls from people around the nation. in a way, i suppose that's a protest and it did create some actual change. >> thank you so much for joining us on this and giving us the ininformation that you do have. >> still ahead, everybody, why newly signed legislation in alabama is being called the strictest anti-trans bill in history. >> plus the stunning results of a two-year investigation shows just how easy it was to steal covid funds under rules set up by the trump administration. we're also following an anti-mandate protest in l.a. as that trucker convoy arrives

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. breaking news, everybody. new york city mayor eric adams has tested positive for covid. in a statement, they said all mayor's events for the week have been canc lled. adams is the 68th person to attend this week's washington gridiron dinner who has tested positive for covid. >> right now in california, truckers a part of a so-called

people's convoy are protested covid health restrictions in downtown l.a. they're billing the event as a defeat, the mandate's protest. want to bring in brandy zadrozny who is there for us and covering the event. ee spoke about 40 minutes ago, and the protests had not gotten up and running. now, it seems as if 3:00 p.m. eastern time this thing has gotten up and running. talk to me about what you have been seeing so far on the ground there. >> yeah, i was cautiously optimistic before. it seems sparse, but we're on california time, so the crowd has picked up a bit. we are at an event that is billed as a defeat the mandates, but we're in california, where the mandates have mostly been lifted. so it's sort of a strange time. there are some mandates still planned, example of that is in schools. there's a bill right now for k-12 that they're currently fighting, but really, you can just look at the speakers list to understand what kind of rally this is. this is an anti-vaccine rally.

some of the biggest stars in the anti-vaccine movement, including og jenny mccarthy will be presenting here today. so that's what we're waiting on, and that's the message that they're hoping to spread. not just that they don't want mandates, but they dont want mandates because they're against the vaccine. a lot of misinformation here today about the dangers of vaccines, spread by a lot of people with something to sell. >> this type of protest, brandy, is it expected to spread elsewhere? i know we have seen those trucker convoy moving across the country. but are we expecting to see more and more stuff like this going on? >> yeah, any mandates that we see, we're going to see some protests from local people. but the problem is that these people are all active on social media, so when we see them on social, it looks like a really huge movement, right? and they're really good at using their own media to inflate themselves. but these are the biggest sfars of the anti-vaccine movement all together in one place. there's maybe a couple hundred

people here, so -- >> yeah. brandy zadrozny, thank you. by the way, brandy has an amazing new podcast coming up. tiffany dover is dead, about the conspiracy theories of a nurse who fainted after getting a covid shot. the podcast debuts a week from tomorrow on april 18th. thank you to brandy for joining us on that. >> for a moment, try to remember where you were two years ago in april 2020. that was the time lockdowns were in full swing. we were all inside of our houses pulling our hair out, masks almost impossible to come by. cases were surging. it was terrifying. for some of us, the scariest time of our lives, but for fraudsters, it was their most lucrative opportunity. while the world got sick, hundreds of fraudsters got rich. they took advantage of the trump administration's chaotic pandemic, the catchup too, when millions in government contracts promising masks they did not

have to hospitals in crisis, and collecting massive, i'm talking massive paydays from emergency aid programs. some of them have been caught. others, many in fact, still enjoying that money. never being held accountable. our next guest spent the last two years trying to piece it all together. with me now is jay david mcswane, propublica reporter, author of pandemic inc. welcome to you. this is amazing work. the last two years you spent your time on this. and it all started with a private plane ride. walk me through some of it and the experiences of what you figured out when it comes to millions of dollars being swindled from the u.s. government to provide nothing but promises of masks. >> right. yeah. initially, those first sort of terrifying months when the trump administration caught up to acknowledging the pandemic, we saw money just flying all over the place, and i was taking a

look at that data, the purchasing data and looking at who got the contracts and noticed it seems like people were just coming out of the woodwork, folks who had never had major deals before, and i happened to call one who had gotten a $34.5 million contract with the v.a., which has the largest hospital network in the country. and asked how he got the 6 million masks he claimed to be selling. he said i'm hopping on a private jet tomorrow and i'm going to deliver these to the v.a. i said that's amazing. would you mind if i tag along and and he said okay, and i got approval from my bosses at propublica and hopped on the plane, and slowly sort of realized that this whole thing was probably a scam. and that really set me off on more than a year of reporting just following around people who were getting these major deals both from the federal government and states, sort of filling the vacuum of leadership and taking advantage of the fact that we were not prepared for this

pandemic. >> you talk about in your twitter thread that i was reading yesterday, i think it was this guy you were talking about. he took you at one point to meet his parents on this private plane you were taking, this trips you were taking to deliver these masks. not sure if that was the same person. but did he ever deliver anything anywhere? >> yeah, that was the same person. his name is robert stewart jr. he's currently in prison for a few convictions. yeah, we did stop in georgia to pick up his parents, and you know, i sort of felt for the guy. i felt like he was trying to bring his parents along on what he thought was going to be a really successful moment where he was going to be a hero to the american public, but the whole thing was kind of built on this major contract being given to somebody who didn't have the goods. >> you write that many of these fraujsteres took advantage of a vacuum of leadership left by trump. how much of this was enabled by

incompetence from the government? >> right. as i discuss in the book, our failure to prepare is really a bipartisan failure. it really stems back to the tea party fights over the affordable care act and trying to defund things within health and human services. and you add to that the trump administration, which didn't want to acknowledge the pandemic. and we really just ended up flat footed in a situation where the national response was really to throw money around to anyone and everyone who claimed to have masks and test kits and gloves and gowns. and it really just created a mess that cascaded down from the federal government to states and hospitals and cities who were all competing for the same supplies, and a lot of people found ways to make money. >> it seems like it's harder for the government to track folks living here in the united states that stole millions and millions of dollars but there's a lot of people living overseas from russia, china, nigeria as well

that are still on the run. is there any hope these guys are going to be brought to justice? >> you know, it really is just such a vast mess that law enforcement and prosecutors are going to be catching up to for a long time. this is before even the rampant unemployment claim fraud really became known and the paycheck protection program, et cetera. there's just going to be hundreds and hundreds of cases. and i highly doubt we'll really get to the bottom of all of that. there's just too much. >> jay david mcswane, it's really good work. and must have been fascinating to go, to be in it throughout those last two years of this pandemic. we appreciate you joining us today on it. thank you. >> thank you for having me. all right, coming up, everybody, children shot in the back and russians burning swastikas on to human flesh. a member of the ukrainian

parliament joins me on the horrible things she's witnessed since the war began. that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. (vo) wildfires have reached historic levels. as fires keep raging, the need to replant trees keeps growing. so subaru is growing our commitment to protect the environment. in partnership with the national forest foundation, subaru and our retailers are proud to help replant 1 million trees to help restore our forests. subaru. more than a car company.

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to come to the table and do more incredible things. . in a stark message to western leaders today, president zelenskyy warned vladimir putin is targeting all of europe with its aggression. and his ambitions extend beyond ukraine. the statement arrives only a day after the ukrainian president met with uk prime minister boris johnson in kyiv. a show of strength and unity that while powerful many ukrainians say it's still not enough. with me is a member of the ukrainian parliament. lesia, thank you so much for joining us. i want to read for folks that are watching one of your tweets describing what children have been particularly had to face during this war in ukraine. two boys were returning home in a village in chur nieve, they saw russian soldiers looting a shop. russian soldies the teenagers

too. the boys were shot in the back as they tried to run. one killed, the second with heavy wounds, in hospital. that is such an incredibly awful tragic scene to even think about, the loss of life of a child. we know so many children have lost their lives in this war. what else have you seen, experienced there? >> 179 children have been killed in 46 days. this is just statistics. but every single one of these 179 children bears a story. a story of a life untold. and i can tell you a lot more. this is just one incident which i have described which has been conveyed to me. but on the same day a 3-year-old child has been wounded by multiple shrapnel wounds from a missile that hit her house. and that child is dead now. there are stories much worse. there are stories of russian

soldiers raping children, girls and boys alike. there are stories of russian soldiers assaulting babies, sexually assaulting babies. and these are the stories of real people, of real children. stories which are happening today in the middle of the 21st century in the middle of europe. with the civilized world watching, standing by on the sidelines as the russian army, the huge second largest in the world russian army is assaulting, targeting civilians, women and children in particular. as they let the blood of children flow. it's not just the crime committed by the russian soldiers and the russian army, but it's also the crime of all those standers-by who are just watching and doing nothing as they see these assaults happen day in, day out, hour by hour. in ukraine, into the 21st century, in the middle of

europe. >> you're a mom, lesia. you have three children. they went to poland to seek safety. i can't imagine what that's like to be separated from your family. but then hearing the stories of these children, seeing these children dying. what is that like for you? >> it's awful because as a mother, as a woman, of course my mind works in such a way that every time i hear of something like this, i think what if it was me? what if it was my child? what if it was my son, what if it was my daughter? and this angers me to endless units, and this is what makes me go on. this is what makes me wake up every day and carry on the fight. >> how are your children doing? >> well, they're doing great. i actually had a luxury of seeing them this weekend, and it's a privilege every single time because i realize every single time that i come online,

on media with you guys, i have a lot to be hankful for. first of all, i'm alive. i'm well. i know that my children are well. i have the time to spend with them. i know that my girls are well. i have a table and water to drink, unlike the many people, women like me in mariupol, for example, or other besieged cities and towns of ukraine, or other towns which are about to be become besieged by russians as they enter into their phase two and aim to occupy even more towns and cities throughout eastern and south ukraine. and that is millions of innocent ukrainians we're talking about that are about to become prey of terrorists, of vandals, of utter savages. >> lesia, a member of the ukrainian parliament, we thank you for joining us, and we're glad you and your family are safe. great to talk to you. >> thank you. our coverage of the russian invasion of ukraine will

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that's why dog lovers are choosing the farmer's dog. a smarter, healthier pet food. delivered. visit tryfarmersdog.com and get 50% off your first box of food. former trump associate michael cohen making news today, calling into question the future of new york's investigation into former president trump. let's take a listen to what he told msnbc's katie phang. >> they actually returned to me thousands and thousands of original documents, now anybody that knows how the prosecutorial system works, yourself included, you know that they like to keep the originals. the fact that they returned this box of documents that i had provided, which in and of itself is a road map to an absolute indictment and prosecution of not just donald but the children, the organization, allen weisselberg as well, the

fact that they return td to me is to me a clear indication that the case is not going to go forward. >> so this directly contradicts what manhattan d.a. alvin bragg jr. said days ago, that the criminal investigation is ongoing. the d.a. making those remarks and speculation the investigation could be closed following the resignation of two high profile prosecutors on the case. >> so have you ever wished you were a fly on the wall at the maggie events you see on your television and twitter timelines. or could see and hear what people were actually saying behind the scenes at qanon rallies across the country? my next guest sat down with a journalist who went under cover for six months with the royalty of the maga world, and she did it all without much of a cover story, relying most on her status as a blond white woman, something the extreme right explicitly values but is short on in a sea of white men. >> i was never intending to have

a personality undercover. i just went to cpac and was like, i'll record some stuff. like whoever, whatever lefty podcast can't go, and i sold stuff to other podcasts so i thought i'll just record it. and this guy came up and me and was like, hey, do you want to help recruit matt gaetz to join our organization? i'm like, what? no question asked. i would always pretend to not know what stuff was, and if i was a guy, that might not have made as much sense, but i was a woman and we're naturally stupider, so it was much easier to do that. and i think, too f i had been a man, there would have been maybe a little more vetting of me. i literally used my real name, like i used a fake last name, but not by much. they were like, oh, yeah, i think she's hot. great. everything is great. if i would have been john from

annapolis, they might have looked into me a little more. >> joining me now is bridget todd, communications director at ultra violet and host of there are no girls on the internet podcast. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> listening to that episode while i was on my run, i found it fascinating and couldn't imagine what she had gone through in her trials and tribulations of going undercover amongst white supremacists. and she talked about why she was accepted, her skin color, her race, being blond. but she also talked about her history, too, the way she was brought up and how that was one of the reasons why she didn't even necessarily have a lot of fear in going under cover with these people. >> yeah, absolutely. i'm so glad that you led with that because i see amanda's story as a story of the importance and power of identity. when we talk about journalists covering extremists, we don't talk about the way that identity plays into that. i love that her being a woman, a

white woman who is blond, really, really played into the rooms she was able to get into and the access she was able to have when reporting on these extremist communities. >> yeah. i don't think you and i would have as easy of a time getting access to those communities. as she did. i think we would have a very uphill battle. that being said, did she ever talk about her own transition? when you sat down with her, because i know she talked about how both her parents were trump supporters. she grew up evangelical christian as well. did she talk about when she transitioned out of that community and into where she is now? >> she does talk quite a bit about that in the episode. what's really interesting about amanda's journey, as you said, she really came from a community of evangelical right wing types. her parents voted for trump twice. and how, you know, when she was starting her work going under cover with these extremist communities, a big part of it was sort of radicalizing for her, but in the other direction.

so she started to become more and more left, more and more solid in her progressive values. that was sort of a change for her. so it's interesting to me how i think we have this understanding that, oh, somebody who starts out one way is always going to be one way. but when you look at amanda's trajectory, it shows it's not true. she's really had this kind of awakening where she, you know, has kind of gone through these different trajectories in life. i think it's almost kind of hopeful that folks who are really embedded in these communities can actually change. i think that her work really demonstrates that like there is hope for people who are sort of deeply involved in some of these extremist communities. >> bridget, why i have you, i want to make a quick transition because we did experience a major part of history being made on this last week, the confirmation of justice ketanji brown jackson. your group has done a lot in talking about this in the lead-up to her confirmation. i want to put up some of the graphics you circulated about recognizing disinformation and

attacks on her solely because she is a black woman. what was your reaction to her confirmation? >> oh, it was historic. it was a great day. i had a little toast in my office on the day that she was confirmed. and i think it's one of those things, it's at once historic and also long overdue, and as you said, i think it's really a shame that because she's a black woman, that we saw elected officials really lob these unfair attacks on her that are so clearly rooted in her idanty as a black woman. i'm happy those attacks were recognized for the ridiculousness they are and that we were able to see this historic confirmation of our first black woman supreme court justice. it's so exciting. >> bridget todd, thank you. by the way, make sure you tune in to there are no girls on the internet. new episodes drop every single week. >> coming up, is vladimir putin's new invasion leader a sign that things aren't going as planned. >> plus, the effect alabama's

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republicans finding more success in restricting the rights of lgbtq people. kay ivey signing two controversial measures. the first criminalized providing gender affirming care for trans youth under the age of 19 and makes doing so a felony punishable by ten years in prison. the other restricts classroom discussions surrounding lgbtq issues and mandates that children use the bathroom that correspondents with the gender of their birth certificate while at school. it's the latest in a wave of over 300 anti-lgbtq measures being considered by states all across the country, like inconsistent consistent, for instance, democrat governor andy beshear vetoed legislation to ban trans gender students from playing women's sports, but the

governor's veto not having much of a practical impact. the gop controlled state legislature needing a simple majority to override the veto and they're expected to do so as early as this week. my next guest, catherine oakley, state legislative director of the human rights campaign, calls that alabama law the single most anti-transgender legislative package in history, and catherine oakley is joining me now. thanks for joining us. we appreciate it. great to talk to you once again. we have spoken periodically throughout the last year or so when we have seen a lot of these anti-lgbtq legislations come into action. talk to me first about why you believe this alabama law is the single most anti-trans piece of legislation that you have seen. >> yeah. thank you first of all, thank you for having me. second of all, yes, this is unfortunately the most antitransgender package of legislation in history, and there were two bills, as you

say, that the governor signed. and they actually did four things altogether, because they were both sort of mashed up bills. so the first prohibits transgender students from using the restroom at schools consistent with their gender identity. it also added on at the last minute language similar to what was in florida with the don't say gay or trans legislation for grades k-5. there's also as you say this medical care ban which would prohibit age appropriate medically necessary best practice medical care for transgender youth. would make it a felony to provide that care, punishable by as you say one to ten years in prison, and it also included a provision in that bill that would force school administrators to out lgbtq students before those students are ready to be out to their

parents. so as a package -- >> wait, wait, wait. i just -- can you explain that a little bit more? that, i mean, much of this is shocking to me. but what you just said about outing students to -- what is -- what's the reasoning -- i want to understand the reasoning behind, what is their thoughts behind that? >> their thought behind that is if a school administrator has any kind of information about the way that a child identifies, that that's information that the teacher or administrator, school counselor, school nurse should immediately notify the parents of. and that they qualify it as a parents rights issue, that a parent has a right to know. of course, that then means that for lgbtq youths who are looking for someone they can talk to about what it is that they're going through, maybe they're not prepared to tell their parents yet, maybe they know that their parents will reject them, we

also know that there are significantly improved mental health outcomes for young folks who have even just one adult that they're able to come out to and talk to. those adults would not be required to out them to their parents. >> we have interviewed people on my show that have talked, teenagers, people who have come out and said that they have confided in their teachers before they have even confided in their parents, and they see that teacher as someone who is a part of their story, someone they love to this day who has really been kind of a beacon of hope for them and strength through that difficult time. i know the hrc has announced they're suing over this law, but you have instances like i mentioned when you have a governor signing these bills or being overruled, vetoing the bill subsequently, and being overruled by conservative-led state legislatures. so how does that affect your strategy going forward?

>> yeah, look, we have to fight all of these bills everywhere that they are. and as you say, this has been an unprecedented year for attacks on specifically transgender youth. the last three years we have seen opponents of lgbtq equality really because they haven't been successful messaging around marriage equality, they haven't been successful messaging around bathroom bills. this is sort of the place they landed where they're trying to really come after trans kids and take away all of the social supports that trans kids have. i think the alabama bill is a great example where you're talking about removing teachers. talking about removing doctors. you're talking about making it harder for kids to be able to be out with their parents. you know, in utah, for example, the governor of utah vetoed the anti-trans sports bill that came to his desk earlier this year. and he made it clear that the reason that he vetoed that bill is because he did not see any need for it.

he says there are four transgender youth participating in sports in utah. one of whom is a girl, and he really led with compassion and said, you know, how would it feel to be these four kids and to have this legislative assault on you? that must be really terrifying for these kids. so he really expressed a lot of empathy. i think we're seeing that more and more. you see someone like governor ivey who made it clear she doesn't believe transgender identity is real. and that she believes that trans kids are defying god's plan for them. and then you see folks like the utah governor who, you know, i don't get it, but i understand that these kids are who they say they are. i don't have to understand what it means to be trans in order to show them compassion. >> cathryn oakley, thank you. good to talk to you. >> at the top of the hour, developing details on russia's

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welcome back, everybody, to the top of the hour. i'm yasmin vossoughian. if you're just joining us, welcome. if you're still with us, thank you. there are growing concerns that we're about to see a further escalation