the new york city subway station. ten people shot. the suspect still out there. police with this huge man hunt now looking for this person. for now, deadline white house starts right now. hi there, everyone. any moment now, president biden will speak for the first time since the attack at a subway station which at least 16 people were injured. ten of them shot during rush hour this morning in brooklyn, new york. we'll bring those remarks to you live when they happen, but we begin on the ground in new york city, which is reeling from the attack and on edge with the suspect still at large. five of the victims in the attack are in critical but stable condition. fortunately, none of the injuries are life threatening. videos from the scene

show panicked subway riders coming out of a train. the suspect had on a gas mask and set off a gas canister that filled the subway car with smoke. that was before he opened fire with a handgun. sources tell nbc news that the suspect left that gun and a bag seen right here filled with fireworks and smoke canisters at the scene. and this video posted on twitter appears to show the gun shots ringing out from the next subway car. witnesses described scenes of chaos as that shooting unfolded. >> i just saw there was three people that were injured. i was coming off the train and i saw a lot of smoke and smelled it. it was a really strong smell. it was nothing like fire. it was a lot different than what the smell of fire is and i saw maybe a 16-year-old kid, he was sitting on the steps, coming out the train station and he had a bullet in his knew. >> what did you make of that? what were you thinking? >> well, i was speechless, as i

am now. it's a very scary sight to see. he looked very scared and as i stood up the train station, two more victims came out the train station. wounded on their knees and their thighs. >> after initial reports of explosive devices, none were found in the train or on the subway platform. police are not treating this as an act of terrorism at this time but they have refused to rule out the possibility as they conduct a major man hunt for the suspect. at this hour, authorities are searching for a uhaul truck with arizona license plates that may be linked to the suspect. their search has been hampered by the fact that the security camera at the subway station was not working at the time of the attack, according to the mayor. it comes as a major uptick in gun crime that has left new york city less safe than it was before the coronavirus pandemic. mayor adams who is in quarantine

after testing positive for the coronavirus, said the suspect intended to terrorize new yorkers. >> anytime you have a person that uses a smoke device and you have a person that discharges a weapon in a system that appeared to have placed a gas mask on his face, that is a person that is intentionally trying to terrorize our system. once we apprehend him or her and do a thorough investigation and determine the motivation behind this act, we can make an official determination on what it is. but we're not going to leave any stone unturned and everything is on the table until we can zero in on what was the motivation behind this. one thing is clear. they wanted to bring terror to our city. >> let's bring in jasmine who's

live on the scene, also a retired nypd officer and lecturer. jillian schneider. jonathan, white house bureau chief for politico and host of way too early. long time local reporter for the new york daily news and clint watt also joins us. he is now an msnbc national security analyst. tell me the latest. >> so nicolle, this is a very fluid situation as you well know. and any type of breaking situation like this, or breaking story like this. we are getting varying numbers, some of which you just stated, but we spoke to our hospital team on the ground who was saying there are people walking into the hospital or the precinct after the attack inside the subway station. the numbers we're getting are now saying that 21 people were admitted into the hospital. ten of which have now subsequently been discharged. 11 are still there. all of them though thankfully as you said, are in stable

condition. you think about this city overall, nicolle. still very much a man hunt, searching for this suspect, this individual who opened fire on a train car around 8:30 a.m. when police officers were called to the site, because of smoke that was emanating from a subway car. there was mass confusion. people didn't necessarily know what was going on. and as the smoke came out of that subway car, followed were individuals that had been shot in the leg. in the knee. in the arm. because of this attack on a subway. and you know the city, nicolle. you know the city. this is my home. new yorkers are trying to get back to normal here. we are on the heels of three years of covid and we got it pretty bad here in this city. at this point, we're starting to return to work. slowly but surely. during rush hour, it's not necessarily as crowded as it normally is, but 8:30 in the morning, you've got a lot of people going back and forth and you have kids on the subway

heading to school and it was fairly crowded at that time because it's a beautiful spring day and people are trying to get back to normal and that was the scene at 8:30 this morning. i also spoke to some parents and kids on the street. you have four schools in sunset park, brooklyn, that were on lockdown all day. the kids call it shelter in place. my kid has told me he's been taught to shelter in place. think about the reality for those children that they're facing. i asked one child, were you scared, and he said yeah, because we were told we had to shelter in place until the end of the school day until their parents picked them up. so the police commissioner, the new york city police commissioner pleading with the public to help apprehend this suspect. of course, issuing the description that you gave, a man in a green construction vest with a gray sweatshirt on, 5'5" tall, black man possibly

connected to the arizona plates and pleading with the public to help apprehend this suspect and bring him to justice after this horrific attack this morning. >> beautiful articulation of who we are right now as a city and a people, just arching back toward what we remember of our pre covid normal. crime is on the mind. its psychological reach i think defies some of the stories that the statistics tell. but i want to press you on what the man hunt is because i've moved around this city freely all day. i've stuck my head into the subway stations. none are closed. none have cops stationed in or out of them. what does the man hunt look like? >> so i'll tell you, when we had the press conference, it was supposed to be around noon eastern time here. got pushed to around 1:00 p.m. subsequently. but we didn't learn a lot from

that. that was on purpose. they can't necessarily give as much information as they have because they want to make sure they apprehend the suspect. as you mentioned, one of the issues they're facing is despite the fact that most subway stations have surveillance footage, video, cameras inside the subway areas, this one was broken. that's bad luck, right? but there is video cameras all throughout the city, which you know. it's been a point of controversy for a lot of individuals but one of the reasons they have those in place is for situations like this. this is not a city that is unfamiliar with attacks. whether it be a terrorist attack, lone wolf attack or someone having a bad day. that happens in cities like this, in urban areas like this. so right now, they're trying to comb all of the footage they have. it may not be the video camera inside the subway system, but it's others and they're really counting on witnesses. they're counting on witness descriptions, they're counting on people that were there that experienced what took place on that subway and they're counting on people in the public that are

watching msnbc and other networks to call in with any kind of tips that could lead them to the suspect. the nypd, you've got a lot of force involved in this. you've got a lot of police presence still here at 36th street and 4th avenue surveilling the area. you've got choppers overhead as i'm speaking to you. as the mayor said, they're confident they're going to find this individual, but it may take some time combing this massive city we live in. >> if you have reporting to do, i won't take it personally, but i'm going to ask you to stick around. jillian, let me play for you what the governor had to say about the suspect. >> this individual is on the loose. this person is dangerous. they're asking individuals to be vigilant and alert. this is an active shooter situation right now in the city

of new york. >> jillian, help us understand what that means and how we should respond to that if we live here. >> thank you for having me. she wants everyone to understand this is an isolated incident. that you have the new york city police department and fbi jointly investigating this and that every resource is being utilized now to apprehend the suspect. >> clint, what is your sense even on air, and tell me what you understand from, and of course, the priority is to protect the city. the priority is to apprehend the shooter. telling us everything makes it more difficult, but tell me how you assessed the situation the morning and the response and man hunt. >> compared to every time in the past many years i've been on with you this is unusual in the

sense that we know more of what it isn't than what it is essentially at this point. normally when it's an attack in new york, we're talking about something in manhattan. this would not be unusual at a subway stop, but why here? this stop isn't something you would think of for a terrorist type or larger type plot, which is meant to be more spectacular. second, we have not heard anything in terms of motive. we don't know who the shooter is. we don't know why they did this or why they picked this location. why this train, why this car, why today. none of that has really within explained. it's not clear from the evidence left behind. if you're trying to inflict mass casualty, why would you detonate smoke, which makes it harder. why would you wear a mask? the targets, that's the other part we usually use to solve what this is, if it's a personal target or criminal target, that oftentimes is sporadic. but this happened at rush hour, which seems kind of specific.

yet the individuals that were wounded in this, i've not heard a pattern and there's no evidence really about prior criminal activity or taking credit for it or acclaim for it. doesn't give you tons of information to drive on, which makes it even more worrisome in the sense that why wouldn't this perpetrator, if they're willing to do it once at 9:00 in the morning, why wouldn't they do it again. it's a pretty serious situation. >> if that's the concern, why is the city fully opened? >> it is curious to me that we've not heard about where the shooter went to in any definable way. i was compared this to, i lived in boston at the time of the boston bombing. the city absolutely shut down and everybody was hunting for these two individuals when that happened. right now, that's not really what's going on. it seems very opposite of the way i've seen some of the more spectacular international terrorist events go. i've been on air here before when we've had incidents in new york, you might remember when the driver tried to drive down the sidewalk on the west side

when we had a bombing there. man, it was very different reaction. so it's curious to watch as things unfold here today. i think part of it might be maybe they want to get people back to their homes and get out of the schools, but i'm curious. it could be that nypd knows something we don't. >> if you got off at 5:00, should you get on the subway? >> i think so. i have trust and confidence in nypd. john miller was out there. i've known him for a long time. i think if he's worried, he would say hey, folks, you shouldn't use transportation systems. we need to do a full or broader lockdown. he hasn't indicated that, which makes me wonder is something that nypd knows that does not have them concerned in the same way. maybe it's that all the evidence was left behind in that attack so they don't feel the need or concern to lock down the city or they maybe know something we

don't yet. >> jonathan, president biden is expected to address the new york city subway attacks in unrelated remarks in iowa today. this president has forged a close relationship around with this new mayor of new york city. what's your sense of, i mean i think there was some reporting within an hour of the attack that he had been briefed on it. it's very much something that he keeps a close eye on. >> the president was briefed. he has spoken to mayor adams. the two of them cut from the same cloth in terms of democrats -- defund the police, but rather trying to fund them. trying to get more money to law enforcement. recognizing that rising crime is a rising concern, for safety and politics. it's not unique to new york. we are seeing big cities across the country. just yesterday, president biden held an event to combat ghost guns in particular. those that can be made at home from kits, trying to combat that

via executive order. and this adds to this incident here and crime in the subways has really surged as the city comes out of the pandemic. there's a real sort of sense of unease. i've lived in new york a long time and for the first time in maybe decades, you start to feel a little bit wary about being on the subway. certainly it's not compared to the early '90s or '80s, or '70s, but more than it was. that's the challenge the mayor faces. this neighborhood, sunset park, it's a heavily latino and asian neighborhood. it's working and middle class. about a 25-minute commute into downtown brooklyn or the city. it's life blood of new york. doesn't get the headlines that manhattan does, but this is who makes up people who live here and certainly a scene of real terror today, lockdown schools across the region and had people running up the subway stairs to safety in the streets. >> i don't want to gloss over or let the hours that have passed

cause us to lose sight of the victims. as the mayor accurately said and tried to articulate whether or not nypd classifies this as terrorism or not, new yorkers were terrorized today and anyone and that's why i asked you, people have asked me today. should i get on the subway after work? i don't what to tell them. probably as safe a day as any. they've got eyes down there. but that's what everybody thought when they left their house at 7:30 this morning to get on that train. i wonder what you make of yasmin's reporting of the kids who spent the day sheltering in place, being out of school because of covid, and this feeling that we just can't get all the way up as a city. >> my two children are in a public school in brooklyn. they sheltered in place because of this. the subway can't be overstated that it is the life blood of the city. i remember i was here working for the new york daily news when

september 11th happened and as catastrophic as that was, there was a sense of law enforcement that it actually would have provided more terror, put it in quotes, if something like that happened in the subway. because every new yorker is on the subway each and over day or often. yes, ridership is down since the pandemic, but it has picked back up some. it's still the connective tissue, if you will, of the city. this huge, sprawling city, and to have something like this happen during rush hour, that train was crowded. we've all seen the videos. the smoke pouring out. people screaming as they're stag erring to safety. some wounded. it's miraculous that no one is dead. perhaps pointing to shooting in the smoke and with a gas mask on. but the mayor is right there. this was even if not what one would call, not deemed as terrorism, it was terrorizing. >> jillian, can you explain what the call is that police get that

result in that picture that many of us just stared at for hours and hours? it looked like hundreds, thousands to the eye, of law enforcement vehicles on the scene for hours. >> yes, so everyone's going to respond. anyone that was in brooklyn today is going to respond when you have something like this. the nypd will usually call a level two or three mobilization, which means every precinct in the city is sending personnel because they didn't know exactly what they had. they had several injuries. people running out. whenever you have smoke in a subway, people who have lived in new york for many years, it brings them back to what we've experienced in years past. right now, you're going to see that heavy police presence, but just know that cops are all over the city. they're scanning all of the nypd surveillance cameras. you have detectives going to all the local establishments. collecting most of your bodegas,

your dwayne reeds, your supermarkets. they have video surveillance answer detectives are going to be tracking, trying to track the movement of the suspect as he exited the subway station. >> jillian, do you want to weigh in on sort of clint's analysis that we know more about what this is not than what it is? what is your sense? >> so, i agree completely. usually, we try and rule out things. so before speculating, before making conjecture, we want to know what is this not. so thankfully, we've already determined that it doesn't seem to be an act of terrorism although it was terrorizing, it doesn't look like this was an act of terrorism. that's important to know because that's going to help the police. they're going to be able to develop a psychological profile of who they should be looking for. >> jillian, what is sort of in your view, again, the priority is to protect the city, the subway, to catch the person who

did this. but what is your sense of how much is held back? can you take us inside what that push pull looks like? >> well, i don't think that the police department wants to give any misinformation. i think that before they release any concrete, factual information, they want to make sure it's proven to be correct. that they have the proper intelligence from witnesses on scene. whatever they can derive from the evidence they recovered on scene. there was, from what i know, a firearm recovered. there was multiple high capacity ammunition magazines there. fireworks. other things. so they are going to want to make sure that they're giving the public factual, credible information. >> yasmin, you still with us, my friend? >> yes, i'm here. >> you laid out sort of i think this moment for new york and new york, not just for new yorkers, but as a destination, is trying to get back as well.

broadway shows are open and they're navigating some i guess whatever wave this is, some covid outbreaks of some of the biggest stars, but they're back. and schools are back. our kids are in-person. they've been in-person through the entire omicron wave which is a real feat and triumph. but crime is real. i pulled the statistics. in march of 2022, overall crime is up 36.5%. just compared to last year. that was sort of mid pandemic. shootings are up 16. 2. good news, homicides are down 15.8% compared to march 2021. statistics on get you so far. what is sort of the mood and the baseline angst about crime in general where you are? >> it's interesting because so this morning, i was not on this story. as it happens, you get sent out on a story and something like this breaks and you get

redirected here. i was going to be talking about inflation and gas numbers and i was talking to people on the ground at a gas station about their biggest worries and the number one issue i heard the most from so many people at the gas station was the economy or crime. that was before all of this took place. which i found pretty astounding. you're right. crime is up throughout the city and it's something that people talk about. not only inside the city, but outside the city. as a new yorker, you often want to defend your home. through and through, this is where i'm from, this is where we live. oftentimes you'll hear from people outside of new york, wow, you know, it's tough to be in new york now, isn't it? things have really gone south in new york after covid. and crime is up and there's a real pause, a real trepidation to get on the subways. people think twice. i tell you, to be honest, there have been times when i thought twice about bringing my children on the subway. my 3 and a half-year-old loves

being on the subway. there's been times where i have you know, paused before taking them on the subway because of the fact that crime is up. if there's hate crimes up in the subway, there are kind of lone wolf attacks in the subway. we know much of it is based on the psychological angst we've all been through throughout covid as well. i did find it curious though that at the press conference today, they were so quick to say this was not an act of terrorism. when we pushed them further, they said well, we are still investigating that. it speaks to what clint said in that maybe the police know something, and it's likely they do, that they're not sharing. my produce and i were talking about how the police don't seem as on edge as you would normally think they would be considering the attack that just took place in the subway system. so there is something to that as this is taking place. but again, this is new york. as we've had so many attacks inside the city, the city goes

on and you're seeing the city continue to go on even today after this horrific attack this morning. >> the city goes on. truer words. thank you all so much for starting us off. jonathan sticks around. when we come back, more on the active man hunt in new york city. adrian adams joins us and we'll turn to other big news happening today starting with january 6 select committee members, zoe lofgren on how the committee plans to proceed with a possible criminal referral to the justice department for donald j. trump. and the war in ukraine is a growing concern for not just ukrainians, but the whole world community, of more and more brutal tactics by the russian forces. a live report from the ground is ahead. all those stories when we continue after a quick break. stay with us. we continue after a quick break stay with us

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we're looking at a live picture of the scene outside of brooklyn's subway station where as we've been reporting, at least ten people were shot by a gunman during this morning's rush hour. the gunman is at large. a man hunt is underway. joining our conversation is adrian adams. jonathan is with us as well. i wonder if you can just tell us the latest. is there a sense that the man hunt has taken some spes

specificity and shape and form? a heightened edginess on the streets. >> thanks so much for having me on this afternoon. such a tragic day for new york city. you know, new yorkers are resilient. we see new yorkers moving, although the movement is apprehensive this afternoon. nypd's investigation is ongoing and i have every faith in the nypd that this individual will be apprehended quickly. >> when you engaged with your colleagues or with other government officials, what are your top questions and fears as some of the information starts to become clearer to all of you?

>> restoration of confidence in the way the city moves. new york has a very unique energy. we have a unique synergy about us and regardless of how hard we get hit, we always get up and of course, we always have 9/11 unfortunately to look back on as the primary instance of such tragedy. so again, it is going to be restoring confidence in new york, in the safety of new york, which we know right now is you know, it's in peril. something that we're working on right now. so that, to me, is most at the forefront right now. restoring that confidence. >> have you considered convening any sort of working group to examine how it is that someone with a gun in a backpack full of fireworks got on a subway?

>> it's something we can look at. right now, my efforts are with the nypd, having faith in their investigation and knowing they are the experts to do that type of work. so my look right now in the moment is towards the nypd and their leadership. >> i'd like to bring in my colleague, jonathan. >> madame speaker, good to see you. this incident comes at a moment where crime is up in new york. other big cities, too. there's been some real, as we were discussing this hour, real fears and waryness of the subway. what is your message to constituents as they looking at the clock, might be eyeing a subway ride home in about an hour. is new york subway safe and what can be done right now to make it feel safer? >> i will always encourage anyone that wants to come to the greatest city in the world to come to the greatest city in the world, which is new york city. we are still under the auspices

of the nypd, the most competent police force in the country. it's the police force that teaches other police how to do policing so i encourage anyone that wants to visit new york to please do so. know that we will continue to do everything in our power to restore, again, to restore confidence in our city and of course, believe in the work of those who are here to keep the public safe. >> madame speaker, respectfully, i think people are living with the reality that crimes are up 66%. shootings are up 16% and now this. likely a story seen all around the world. the most vulnerable kind of victim. people just on their way to work. you know, i want to apologize

for the conversations we've had about, whether or not to take the subway, especially with uber price hikes and taxi surcharges, isn't an option for a lot of people who rely on the subway. what is the blow like to have the statistics marry out with an international story of a mass shooting on our subway? >> it's tragic, nicolle. absolutely tragic. there is no way to hide from the statistics. they are what they are. we have seen a surge. there's no way around that we are concerned about the surge. and you know, it's something that, it's an uphill battle. we've seen gun violence increase in the city of new york. we have gone definitely, you know, in front of anyone who will listen, to let people know that we have to crack down on guns in this country.

there are no guns manufactured in the hands of those who have them here and who are bringing them here. we have to pay attention to the iron pipeline and the proliferation of illegal weapons coming into our city. there's no if, ands, or buts about it. we also appreciate president biden. his crackdown now on ghost guns, which we saw take the life of an innocent child just the other day. there are several different things we've got to take a look at. we have to take it seriously, but it is going to take clamping down on the legislation in this country. this is not a new york thing. this is a nationwide phenomenon. gun violence is an epidemic in this nation. >> new york city cops will acknowledge that. that you can get rid of every gun in new york city, but you don't have to drive far in any direction to go get one because of the nature with which they come through. we covered that event yesterday and i'd love to have you back to

have a longer conversation about guns in our city because you're right. and i think california's dealing with this as well. a whole state with laws and a lot of gun violence there, too. new york city council speaker adams, it's a busy day and we appreciate you spending time with us. thank you. do we have president biden? let me show all of you president joe biden on today's subway attack. watch. >> my wife jill and i are praying for those that are injured and all those touched by that trauma. we're grateful for all the first responders who jumped into action including civilians, civilians who didn't hesitate to help their fellow passengers and try to shield them. my team has been in touch with mayor adams and new york's police commissioner and the department of justice and the fbi are working closely with the nypd on the ground. we're going to continue to stay in close contact with new york authorities as we learn more about the situation over the

coming hours and days and something could have broken between now and the last hour, i haven't heard the news. i haven't spoken to any of my staff, but we're not letting up on it until we find out and we find the perpetrator. there is a lot of muscle memory between new york city and the white house at a moment of tragedy and terror and this president has made new ties and bonds. >> it's a very familiar link between the city and federal law enforcement response when something like this happens, sadly. president biden certainly first of all we know how effective he is in speaking about delivering empathy and speaking about grief. and in this case, let's hope everyone seems to be like they're going to be okay. but yeah, certainly hitting the notes there. it's a partnership between he and mayor adams and how trying to combat rising crime is a central plank of his white house, which was not one when they came into office, they'd have to deal with, but it is a

reality here. and certainly to the city council speaker's point, it's not just a new york story. it's a national story. the white house knows that and events like yesterday, cracking down ghost guns, is part of it. whatever federal support the mayor requests, president biden will provide. >> it was interesting that yasmin, i liked that she pulled back the curtain on our industry. she was on her way to do a story about inflation. president biden was at an event on gas prices. they've gone down in iowa. that's what the stop was. he's been in that event. in that meeting, but you're right. in terms of political headwinds, these two intersect to make some heavy ones. >> this is a week and obviously they had no idea this tragedy was happening today. but this is a week where the white house is really trying to pivot back towards domestic politics. the war in ukraine is in the front of mind for everyone for six weeks, but the ghost guns event today. today is about ethanol fuel,

trying to keep gas prices lower than they had been. later in the week, he's going to north carolina for an issue of supply chains. and we had the inflation report out today. consumer prices sky rocketing, so this is the week where they want to bring the attention back home a little bit because as much as he has received rightly praise for his handling in europe, the war there, that's probably not what the midterms are going to be decided on. that's why the white house is trying to tend to matters at home, too. up next, the latest in the january 6th select committee's investigation. lot of news this week from the fruits of their labor. zoe lofgren is our next. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere.

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there has been a cascade of blockbuster revelations in recent days about the growing pile of evidence of the trump coup plot from the january 6 committee which has concluded for the very first time that we know of that it has reached the bar. it has enough evidence to refer the ex-president to the department of justice for criminal charges, but it is grappling with whether to send that referral to doj and add that pressure to garland's calculations out of some concerns of politically tainting any investigation. that probe, unprecedented. delivering two major wins and indications about the wide net

being cast. a man named ali alexander is now the first high profile figure to be cooperating with doj and as we reported yesterday, a jury found a police officer guilty on six counts related to his participation in the attack including felony obstruction of an official proceeding. an important conviction in an important case, one of just two that have gone to trial so far. joining our conversation, california congresswoman, zoe lofgren, a member of the january 6 select committee. thank you for being with us. i wonder if you can tell us if you meant for us to know that this bar has been reached. that you have enough evidence or if a product of needing to make some of these filings in the related court cases like the eastman case. >> i hate to say it, but i think the media coverage has been an error.

"the new york times" headline didn't match the story. number one, the committee has never met to discuss the idea of whether or not to send a so-called referral to the department of justice. number two, we would not be in a position to have that discussion until the investigation is complete and we knew what it was that we were sending to the department. number three, just as a matter of fact, a so-called referral has no legal impact. it's basically sending a letter saying you know, here's our opinion and here's some evidence. so you know, i think it's clear to me as one member, that the evidence supports a finding of significant misconduct on the part of the former president. and if you read judge clark's opinion on the eastman case, i think he reached that same conclusion looking at the evidence. but i think there's much adieu

about something that hasn't occurred, which is a discussion, let alone a disagreement among the committee about any potential so-called referral. >> let me ask you about the facts. do you have evidence as liz cheney indicated in an interview on cnn sunday, of criminal wrong doing on the part of donald trump? >> let me just say this. i agree with liz, but obviously our rules are that you can't disclose the evidence we have without a vote of the committee and there has been no such vote. i would just direct interested parties to read judge clark's opinion because it's not just the members of the committee reviewing evidence that leads us to believe there's significant misconduct, but a federal judge who reviewed evidence reached that conclusion and said in his opinion that it's more likely

than not that the former president committed crimes and fraud. so it's pretty significant. >> and i just want to be exact here because i think words matter very much to our viewers. i think there was some relief that a bar had been reached, that what judge clark was speaking to was the very evidence that the times reports you know have enough of to prove to anyone that wanted to investigate donald trump criminally that a bar had been reached for a referral. the process piece aside, do you agree with the assessment from federal judge clark that that bar has been reached? >> well, i think his decision was soundly based, let me say that. >> that's a yes. >> we've got more work to do at the committee and of course we've made it clear throughout, we're a legislative committee, not a prosecutorial body. and when we have got our report in line, we will release all of

the information that we have to the public and by the way, the department of justice. so you know, we're reaching conclusions. i have opinions. each member of the committee does based on what we've seen, but we haven't had a vote or had a discussion on where we are yet. >> so again, i don't want to get locked in the process because i think part of the service to the country has been because of the nation of the committee's work, there is a duty to be transparent. there is a transparency to your investigation that has served the public and certainly people who watched robert mueller and two impeachments come up short to holding donald trump accountable, there's a lot of relief that it appears someone is. so i guess if you don't like the way the story articulated, it is a relief to hear you agree with the federal judge who also felt a bar had been reached on

criminality. probably enough evidence for felonies to have been committed, he said. >> of course, as you know, a criminal prosecution has a different standard than the case before the judge. it's beyond a reasonable doubt. there's that issue for prosecutors to sort through. the committee is not afraid of anything. speaking out, releasing our information. we're not afraid of calling anyone who we think will shed light and we will do exactly what we think is right to uncover the truth. >> that includes subpoenas for kevin mccarthy and other republican house members? >> we have not reached that conclusion and part of what, it's not a matter of being afraid. we also need to be strategic and what will result in more information instead of just endless litigation. >> would you mind sharing your opinions about the effectiveness

of a criminal referral if you get to the end of the process, you finished your report, can you just give a viewer, a citizen, a pro-con breakdown of what that would mean? >> just as a matter of law, a so-called criminal referral has no legal impact. it's different than the referrals we made for criminal prosecution for defying the subpoenas. there's an actual federal statute about that which invites the congress to go ahead and make that referral. but under our constitutional system, the congress is not the prosecutor and i don't think the american people want a legislative body to be a prosecutor. we have an opinion. we could send it over to the department of justice, but under the law, it has no legal impact. >> but it obviously has a psychological and political

impact and your message today is that you're not fighting amongst yourselves. you're not at that point, and people have opinions, but there hasn't been a form yet. i just want to make sure i understand you. >> that is correct. we've had no discussion in the committee and my guess is we would not be in a position to have that or could i entice you to share your opinion in this current political climate and all the pressure bearing down on merrick garland about whether it would be a useful thing to do, to refer trump criminally? >> i don't know the answer to that. we haven't had a chance to go through the pros and cons with our professional staff. i really think there's been entirely too much spinning around among commentators. this is not the major gist of our investigation and it's not, as a fact, been agentdized yet.

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we are back. congresswoman zoe lofgren is our guest. congresswoman, you may view it as a good development that jonathan has a question for you. >> congresswoman, good to see you. some of your colleagues said that come spring might be some public hearings to get testimony in front of the american people, thinking that would be an important -- in terms of public awareness as to what really happened that day. can you give us an update? the clock is ticking until november. >> i can't give you the date. the chairman will make announcement when the date is set. that is the plan to have it this spring and to lay out what we learned so far. that's the job that we were given as a committee. we plan to fulfill that duty. >> congresswoman, i have one more for you. sort of a -- i think 800

witnesses have been interviewed. there's about 100 outstanding. who are the people you would most like to hear from and hear their story, their view of events? >> we would very much like to hear from mark meadows. as you know, we did refer that to the department of justice for criminal prosecution pursuant to the statute. i would very much like to hear from steve bannon. of course, as you know, he's being prosecuted for criminal contempt. there are a few others. those two would be good. >> vice chair congresswoman liz cheney made a point for all these individuals, the testimony is far more important to all of you than the criminal consequences of defying the

subpoena. sounds like that holds true for all of you. >> absolutely. >> congresswoman lofgren, we're smarter and better for understanding how you see things. thank you for spending time with us today. >> any time. you take care. >> jonathan, thank you for spending the whole hour. it's like your eighth hour of television today. >> i'm happy to be here. some breaking news, president biden for the first time used the word genocide to describe what's happening between russia and ukraine, the first u.s. official to do that. they've been staying away from that. it's a significant escalation. >> it's a huge deal. president zelenskyy has been using the word for weeks. jonathan just teased. when we come back the very latest from the ground on ukraine. the u.s. and our allies are investigating that russia has deployed a chemical agent. all that when we come back. back

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i saw a young guy run up to the station booth. he was bleeding from the legs. seemed like he was okay. i mean, i'm hoping he's all right. then he was essentially just alerting people to what happened. he was saying there's been people injured. there's bleeding. you know, that's basically what he got out. i thought i heard him say shots or shooting. i wasn't sure. i didn't know what happened for a long time. >> hi, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. rush hour again and the city in the middle of an active situation following a shooting this morning on a moving subway

car. the gunman is still out there. law enforcement is in the midst of a sweeping manhunt. they're looking for a man about 5'5", 180 pounds who wore a green construction vest over a gray hoodie. this is video inside the train. it's full of smoke. this is the n train about to pull into the 36th street station in brooklyn. the gunman put on a gas mask, opened a canister and began firing his handgun as the car filled with smoke. the gunman left all those objects behind when he fled the scene. we got this photo showing a bag connected to the suspect full of commercial fireworks. in all, at least 16 people have been injured. 10 were shot. a chaotic and horrific scene. the fire department said five people are in critical condition. thankfully none of them suffered life-threatening injuries. the obvious questions are

unanswered -- the who, the why, motive. law enforcement is involved in a full-scale investigation. katy tur joins us now. tell me the latest. >> reporter: it's been eight and a half hours since this happened. we still don't have a photo of the suspect. at last word the new york city nypd commissioner was tweeting out a description of the suspect to new yorkers. still, no photo. as you mentioned at the top, authorities were able to recover some of what he left behind on the train, a backpack including some gas canisters, fireworks, also according to our own pete williams who has been doing remarkable reporting, they recovered a 9 mm. handgun that had jammed. there's still no photo.

they're looking for a uhaul and there's talk about finding one. none has been found. new yorkers are on edge. they were already on edge because the incidents that have happened on the subway in the last few months. the city responded by adding officers over the past few months. mayor adams says they'll add 1,000 more officers to the system. nicolle, as you know, this didn't happen in the middle of times square. it didn't happen anywhere in manhattan or any of the more trafficked areas in manhattan. it happened within relatively -- a relatively deep part of brooklyn, a residential area, where people commute into the city.

not a high profile place and not a place where you're used to seeing a permanent police presence. you might see patrol officers come in and out of the subways, but not a permanent patrol. this has made people very nervous across the city. right now they also are unclear and the officials have not updated us on this, on where the person went after they shot everybody. did they flee up the stairs and leave the area on foot above ground? did they go below ground, nicolle, and stay within the subway system? at one point an mta source told me they were going through every camera they had station after station on the way into manhattan and also on the way out in case he went through another subway tunnel to find out if they had any images whatsoever of this person. surveillance is going to be a big part of this investigation. it's also a big part of what did

we do wrong and what can we do better? surveillance cameras were being update and added to. a member of law enforcement was using a ladder to scale a street sign pole to physically remove the video from the surveillance cameras to see if it was possible. i think that was surprising consider it's 2022 and you assume everything is interconnected. in some parts of the city infrastructure is in need of updating. that will be a conversation that needs to be had. >> i know you covered this news conference, the first sort of public dissemination of information. you were there. i want to show you something that the governor had to say about what you mentioned, crime in the city. >> we are sick and tired of reading headlines about crime,

whether mass shootings, or the loss of a teenage girl, or a 13-year-old. it has to stop. i'm committing the full resources of our state to fight this surge of crime, this insanity that is seizing our city because we want to get back to normal. >> it was the first i had seen her really spill over on the topic. it's something mayor adams gets asked about daily. she gets asked about it all the time. is there a sense that is connected to what you articulated, this infrastructure that requires our law enforcement officials in the biggest city in the country to climb ladders to pull down tape? >> reporter: listen, this has been a problem in this city for over a decade. you know, i covered -- i used to cover local news here years ago it was always a problem within new york city housing. there would be incidents in the housing developments and the surveillance cameras that are

supposed to be working weren't working and residents would complain. it's not a new problem. it's a conversation that needs to be had in the city, especially right now as crime is on the rise. in talking about what else came out of that news conference it was interesting because the new police commissioner came out and very quickly said it's not being investigated as terrorism currently. i was surprised by that. i think a few people were surprised by that given how much planning seemed to go into it and how quickly they made that determination. it's still up in the air. i asked john miller, the department communication officer of intelligence to clarify. he said it's not that it's not being investigated as terrorism. they don't know the person. they don't have a motive. they're not ruling anything out. once they declare it as terrorism, it starts off a whole other investigative process with

a lot of other agencies. until they're ready to make that determination and hand off that investigation, they're not going to do it. they don't want to hand it off too early and then take it back. it might end up in this place. it could or it could be a lone person who had mental problems who wanted to go out and hurt people, potentially kill a lot of people. that's unclear at the moment. there's going to be a news conference around 5:00. around right now, that's what they're aiming for. who knows how on time they'll be? hopefully we'll get more details on what they've learned. we're eight and a half hours in and it's striking there still has not been a picture disseminated around the city, especially considering how many cameras are out there.

people have their cell phone cameras. social media videos came up immediately. they've gone through trying to collect ring cameras and the like. so far no definitive image of the suspect. >> it is amazing. katy tur, thank you for your amazing coverage all day. >> joining us now is dermot shay and also frank figluzi. dermot, can you tell us what is happening behind the scenes? >> well, when you look at the full brunt of the nypd's resources together with their partners i'm sure we'll hear more in the hours to come. i can assure everyone there's an

incredible effort to, number one, identify those responsible and, number two, bring them to justice as safely as possible. there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes and make no mistake it's a large incident in terms of determining what was the motivation, what evidence has to be collected and most importantly how do you keep new yorkers safe. i'm confident that's all going on. >> frank, to you speak to that we're eight and a half hours after and there's not an image of the suspect? >> there's two possibilities. one is that they literally don't have an image or a usable image or they do and decided not to do

that. i'm in the first camp. i don't think they have a good image to use. there are sensitive reasons they might put an image out. maybe they don't want violence towards this person because they're ready to move in on this person through proper legal process. it's amazing in a city like new york that -- where you're under security surveillance all the time, that we don't have it yet. >> mr. commissioner, care to weigh in on why there isn't a photo? can you speak to the profile of a criminal that there's no image, but left behind a backpack? >> we've come to expect in this day and age to see not only a video, but close-up of multiple pictures of the perpetrator. it's out of the ordinary that we

haven't seen that yet. as the investigation starts to unfold, it will become clear why that is. it's a chaotic scene as this crime took place between the smoke and the gunfire, providing ample opportunity to slip away. the detectives i can assure you are putting an incredible priority on identifying that person aquand getting that info out. i'm sure that as hours go by and that first big break comes in, you'll start to see the dominos fall rather quickly. we have to be a little patient here around make sure -- give the investigators time to do their job. >> frank, this is, as has been reported, the police

department -- this is the police department that other cities come and learn from. it's a tribute to the commissioner. it's also a police department dealing with crime number that is are surging and a city whose anxiety belies those statistical surges. talk about how those two things meet on a day like today. >> nypd and their colleagues in the public safety sector in the greater new york area have a tremendous challenge on their hands. they're doing everything they can within the law with regard to what prosecutors and lawmakers allow them to do and the public is experiencing across the country, not just in new york, a surge in certain violent crimes. we've got a congress -- we spent the day yesterday in the media covering president biden's announcement of his attempt to do something, even if it's on the periphery with regard to

ghost guns and parts and components. why is he on the periphery of gun regulation? because that's all he can do, but he was doing something about it. new yorkers are incredibly resilient people. we don't forget 911 and that resilience. nypd is one of the best departments in the world. they will get to the bottom of this. i'm with dermot on the fact that there's patience that we're not able to engage in in today's day and age. let the police officers and detectives and fbi agents do their job. i have a high degree in confidence this person is going to be in custody soon enough. he's been sloppy and there are some oddities about that. i can say with confidence he's sloppy because he's not fitting the mold of many of the mass shooters. with over 60 mass shootings last

year there's been lots of research. already, we can't draw a line between the shooter and target. we have school shootings, church shootings, workplace shootings. it's not apparent. he could have a mental health issue. he could be looking for violence, which is scary. when they sit him down and start interviewing him, he might say something that's crazy to everybody else but makes perfect sense to him. >> this intersection of crime and mental illness on the subway is a real crisis for this city. dermot, does it -- a tragedy like this bring more resources to try to improve that? >> well, processes are in place that that was happening

immediately, i can assure you from the moment this took place today messages would go out moving resources around the city. you mention the mental illness. this is why there's a level of frustration for everyone seeing this from the outside. you want closure and you want to know why this happened. that will be part of what happens going forward. there are steps to take and the priority right now is, first and foremost, to identify and bring the person in. the reason for that is simple, so no one else gets hurt. once that's done the investigation really starts. that's when prosecutors, federal authorities, nypd will start to do a post-mortem on this, in terms of dissecting why it happened and trying to make sense of it all. i'm sure as the hours turn into days that will be the process

where people learn more. >> frank, a lot of people don't have days to figure out whether or not to get on the subways with the price of taxis and ubers. right now it's the only way to get to their jobs. would you get on the subway right now at 5:00? it's rush hour in our city. >> i would and here's why, i have confidence in law enforcement leadership, if they thought there was a very viable continuing real threat, they would be locking the city down. it's not gone unnoticed on my part that there's not a lockdown happening. certainly some schools may have been locked down in the area, but you don't see what we saw during the boston marathon bombing, an entire city locked down, an airport shut down. there's a reason for that. i don't know the reason. it's that reason that says i think it's safe to get on and go home tonight, otherwise law

enforcement would be doing something different. >> it would look different. we had that feeling, but not as informed as yours. frank and dermot, thank you for starting us off. we'll continue to monitor any developments as we learn more. up next, we turn to the war in ukraine and new fears of the brutality that russia will unleash. we heard unconfirmed reports by the pentagon of russia using chemical weapons. now president biden just called vladimir putin a dictator who is committing genocide. plus, we'll talk about the administration's response with matt miller. we continue after a quick break. don't go anywhere. break. don't go anywhere. up. bring what up, kayak? excuse me? do the research, todd. listen to me, kayak searches hundreds of travel sites

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you think i can't do this? ow! your family budget, your ability to fill up your tank, none of it should hinge on whether a dictator declares war and commits genocide a half a world away. >> comments are a really big deal. significant comments from joe biden in the last hour. it's the first time that president biden has described vladimir putin's actions on the war in ukraine a genocide. ukraine's president zelenskyy used the term to describe the horrors in bucha. the white house stayed away from using the word as had the entire cabinet. president biden has never hesitated to describe vladimir putin as a war criminal and say he should go. putin spoke out today as well in a press conference there saying

his, quote, special military operation, war, in ukraine was going according to plan and russia had no choice but to invade ukraine. he also said peace talks with ukraine reached a dead end, making clear he had no intention of pulling back his forces. these comments come as the war shifts to a different phase, focussed on the east of ukraine where concerns of even more brutality -- hard to imagine that after seeing bucha, but people fear more brutal attacks from putin. it's less than a day after putin appointed a new general to oversee operations in ukraine. he's a man whose nickname is the butcher of syria. he has a history of targeting, being particular brutal to civilians. a report is unconfirmed by the pentagon or by nbc news of a chemical weapon attack.

ukraine's president zelenskyy said, quote, we take this as seriously as possible. while warning his people to prepare for what he's calling a new stage of terror against ukraine. secretary of state tony blinken weighed in. >> we're not in a position to confirm anything. i don't think the ukrainians are either. let me say this, we had credible information that russian forces may use a variety of riot control agents, including tear gas mixed with chemical agents that would cause stronger symptoms to weaken and incapacitate ukrainian fighters and civilians as part of the aggressive campaign to take mariupol. it was a concern we had before the aggressive aggression start.

it's something we're very focussed on. >> joining us now, a familiar face, matt miller, who is a special adviser for the national security council. matt, tell me what was behind president biden today describing the war in ukraine as a genocide for the first time. >> reporter: the president has never since the beginning of this war in ukraine hesitated to call out the atrocities we're seeing on the ground. even before this conflict we released information saying the russian military planned to use atrocities, targeted oppression against anyone in ukraine. once the invasion was launched the president made clear he believed war crimes were being committed. >> what changes when an

adversary on the world stage is carrying out a genocide as opposed to simply war crimes? does anything change in how you deal with vladimir putin now? >> reporter: nothing is going to change with our response. we're committed to doing two things with respect to the russian atrocities. we're collecting and analyzing and disseminating to our allies and partners information about war crimes, and working with allies on a mechanism for holding putin and others in the russian government to account. we should be clear, that's a long-term process. it takes a long time to hold people to account. while we're focussed on collecting evidence, we can't lose sight of the war in front of us and the need to reinforce the ukrainian military who is resisting the russian military on the ground. even as we work on assembling this evidence and working on

what a tribunal might look like, we're flowing weapons into ukraine so they can fight back and try to repeal the russian military from their country. >> does the classification of a genocide change the calculation about what we do to respond militarily? >> reporter: no, it does not. the president has made clear that the united states is not going to send a u.s. military force into ukraine to fight the russian military. we don't think that's in the united states -- in the interest of the united states security and we don't think it's in the interest of ukraine's security when you think about the way that might widen the conflict. that said, we'll continue to flow security assistance, military assistance into ukraine so they can defend themselves.

we've seen how courageous and brave the ukrainian military has been, how they've taken the weapons we provided them and the weapons nato has provided them and used them to stop the attack on their capital. we'll continue to provide them just with those systems, but additional systems from our stocks and those we identify from our allies around the world. >> does it change the nato response if chemical weapons were used in mariupol or are used in the coming days? >> reporter: with respect to this alleged chemical weapons attack in mariupol, we have not identified -- we've not confirmed whether that took place. we'll continue to conduct an investigation. secretary blinken said we had information even before this week the russians might resort to such measures and we shared that information with the ukrainian defense forces so they could defend themselves.

the president made clear if there's a chemical weapons attack there would be consequences. the nature will depend on what the scope looks like. i think it makes sense to confirm whether a chemical weapons attack actually occurred. >> matt miller, thank you for joining us. great to see you. >> thank you. >> president biden said something, what is happening in ukraine isn't merely a war being waged by a war criminal, it's a genocide. >> reporter: you know, it's hard to argue against that. the word genocide is a tricky one to use. there's a broad explanation that you're trying to wipe out entirely or in part a

nationality, religion or ethnic group. there's argument about that. what they're doing here is atrocious. from the first days of the war you can draw parallels to what the russians did in syria to what they're doing in ukraine. they're terrorizing the civilian populations, wanton destruction of towns, unrestrained savagery on civilians. now there's the fear that the russians may use chemical weapons. there's no evidence of that yet. the russians backed assad when he did that in aleppo. it was when they wanted to gain advantage to crush the syrian people. they're scared that may happen. they've seen that putin is capable of doing anything here. we saw the atrocities in bucha, that humanitarian disaster still

going on in mariupol. if they're starting to lose ground, the fear is they may use more unconventional methods to get the upper hand. >> you and i have had multiple conversations since the horrors of bucha were made obvious to the world and the conversation quickly turned to the horrors of mariupol and other places being just as heinous and on a larger scale. what is the sense of -- if ever, we're able to understand what's happening in mariupol? >> reporter: look, i mean, mariupol, you can't get aid to that city. the people coming out are risking it themselves. a lot have already fled. it's the most bombed, most destroyed city in ukraine. the feeling here, nicolle, is

it's going to get much worse. the russians haven't made momentum. the focus is on the donbas. you talk to ukrainians here, they're clued up on history and strategy. they keep talking about the 9th of may, a victory day for the russians when the nazis surrendered in 1945. they're scared the russians are going to try to make a big point on that day. they need to go back and say we got a big chunk of ukraine. that's the fear in this country that something is building up for the 9th of may so vladimir putin can declare a big victory in this country. they think places other than mariupol may turn into a mariupol. they're bracing for the worst here. that's the worst feeling ukrainians have. every day they get up and say is tomorrow going to be worse than today? they probably think, yes, it is.

>> unflinching coverage from you, ali. stay safe. when we come back the investigation by ukrainian prosecutors into war crimes. there are hundreds of suspects and a lot of questions about where the investigation will leave. we'll get answers after a quick break. stay with us. us ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. and you may lose weight. adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. in adults also with known heart disease, ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. ozempic® helped me get back in my type 2 diabetes zone. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer,

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the investigation is under

way in ukraine to identify and prosecute war crimes. the ukraine prosecutor saying vladimir putin is the main war criminal of the 21st century. in an interview yesterday, she spoke to the high number of suspects already identified. >> what we have now in ukraine, we do everything on the national humanitarian law. that's why we have now more than 500 suspects, concrete individuals. it is top politicians, top military, top propaganda agents of russian federation who we suspect of illegal -- started this war and are continuing this war. >> turning our coverage, bobby goesch and william taylor who

served as the vice president for russia and you were at the u.s. institute for peace. mr. ambassador, i wanted to start with the news that president biden described vladimir putin's war in ukraine as a genocide. if you were still the ambassador, how would that change -- how does that change how the united states carries out its policy with russia and ukraine? >> if anything it increases the intensity, increases the focus, increases the determination to support the ukrainians to win this war. the only way this is going to be resolved, the only way we get the criminal investigations, the only way we prosecute for genocide is if the ukrainians win. they have to win. we need to support them. >> that's what you said last week. i quoted you several times after i talked to you. i want to understand what that looks like in the donbas which

is where a hot war raged when you were the ambassador. how do the ukrainians achieve winning if that's where the war has moved? >> the war has moved there. the ukrainians won the battle of kyiv. they pushed the russians out of kyiv, back into belarus. they bloodied the russian infantry, all the weapons they had were no good. they pushed them back and now they're sending these same troops, nicolle, back around not yet combat ready, back into the east where they're going to try again. the answer is the victory is the ukrainians continue to push hard, to fight hard, fight fiercely against the russian military, which is not doing very well. it's fairly well in the air. it's doing fairly well in the south. in terms of ground forces up against the serious ukrainian

ground forces, they're not doing well. that's what victory means. >> mr. ambassador, i know you still have contacts and sources in the country. what are you hearing? >> the same thing, nicolle, that is determination. you heard the prosecutor general there. i talked to other people. i talked to a good friend of mine in the military. i'm in touch with him. he says he's never been more motivated. this has been a reformer all his life. he said we should have been working harder. we should have done more to make ourselves into european -- integrated into europe. we should have reformed our military. they're more determined now than ever based on everything we've been seeing that you've been reporting. >> bobby, this victory in kyiv coincided with the public seeing the horrors in bucha.

we're on the outside. the ambassador has been inside. one of ali velshi's and kyle perry's constant reporting themes, the thing they constantly came back to from their days in the country is what the ambassador is talking about, this determination, this x factor that the russians could not have assessed. what is your sense -- there's new reporting in the "new york times" that the ukrainians foiled a cyberattack. it's their prowess on the battlefield. it's their prowess in cyber. it's their determination. what is your assessment? >> well, i think the ukrainians have blown away all expectations of their capability. one of the many things that putin and the russian military

miscalculated is in their treatment of the ukrainians, civilians in areas where for a time they had control. what we saw in bucha, the horrific measures of torture and murder and rape, those things are only going to strengthen their resolve. the russians thought they could intimidate the ukrainians by committing these atrocities. the exact opposite is going to happen. you'll see there's an absolute determination to avenge those who were murdered and those who were tortured in bucha. i think that's going to put steel in the spine of the ukrainian forces, not that they're lacking in that capacity. it's also going to put steel in the spine of the international community which is more eager than before to help, to provide more ammunitions, to provide more fire power to the ukrainians. this is a complete miscalculation on the part of the russians. >> i mean, the flip side of that, the opposite example as

president zelenskyy is leading the conversation, invoking the word genocide is not an insignificant development for an american president. president zelenskyy said it days ago. there wasn't a lot of badgering of our president to do so before he had seen enough to make that assessment himself. again, the west at least, i won't say the global community, because putin does have support, the west is certainly following zelenskyy's lead in terms of understanding exactly what is happening inside ukraine. >> there's no question he has been outstanding in communicating throughout this war right from the beginning and he's been very careful to modulate his tone, putting just enough pressure, putting more pressure on the west, on the international community without

demanding too hard that they commit to using terminology like genocide which is tricky, which is technical, which requires a separate set of responses. he's played this extraordinarily well with limited resources. it wasn't long ago that the general impression in ukraine was this guy was out of his depth. former comedian, he stumbled into politics, stumbled into the presidency. everyone thought he was out of his depth. now he looks like a statesman. >> and leader. ambassador, i want to ask you -- again, we give so much air time to what we understand to be russia's next move. the objective is for ukraine to win. is it your sense that they're making plans for this new phase donbas as well?

as you told us, this is a military that knows exactly what it faces, even with this brutal new general in charge of the russian operation there. >> nicolle, absolutely. the ukrainians know what to expect. they know this is different. this is going -- the fight in the east is going to be different than the fight around kyiv. the terrain is different. there's more woods and forests in the north, more planes and straight shots in the east. they know that. they also realize -- this is why they're pushing so hard for the longer, the heavier, the greater distance weapons because in order to get at those tanks and we look at those -- we look at that convey. we've seen a convoy like that before. it's mostly support. in order to get close to that, close enough to use javelins, they need to avoid being shot at by the russians.

the ukrainians know how to do this. they need the weapons. they need the support. they need the equipment we can provide. >> they know what to ask for. the lists are very targeted. >> they absolutely are. you hear it all the time. they still are talking about the air defense, whether it's weapons, whether it's ground to air, whether it's aircraft, they know what they have to do. they are asking for it. to be fair, the west is responding. nato is responding. the slovaks, the brits, americans, we're there. >> ambassador william taylor, bobby, thank you for spending time with us. still ahead, there's a question we've asked time and time again. what can be done about the rash of gun violence in our country? our friend matthew dodd will join us next. stay with us. us

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less than 24 hours after joe biden announced a new measure to reduce gun violence in america. advocates say that yesterday's moves were a big and important step. the violence that we saw just today shows us how urgent gun reform is in this country. how overdue it is. joining our conversation, matt dowd, political strategist, founder of country over party. also msnbc political analyst. it's a conversation we've had so many times. what are your thoughts? >> thanks, nicolle. i mean, another terrible day. we seem to have these every other day. in the course of this, i was thinking that subway stop in that area up until the year ago was the subways that my oldest son and his wife, my daughter-in-law, used every day. that same subway stop up until about a year ago. you know, the last data we have

available, more than 45,000 people in america in 2020 died from gun violence. that's more people in one year died of gun violence in america that have died throughout this entire war this ukraine. more people died in one year from america from gun violence. if you think about it and i know this gets into a political argument and all that, the stop five states for gun violence, top five, are alabama, mississippi, louisiana, missouri, and wyoming. and the bottom five states are rhode island, hawaii, massachusetts, new jersey, and new york. and there's a direct correlation to where there's lax gun laws, to where there's strict gun laws. in how much gun violence there is. and i, you know, bravo to the president for doing his thing on ghost guns, which i know some people on the right reacted to. all he did was say that ghost

guns should be treated like every other gun, which means they need a serial number and you need to go through a background check. he just said treat them like all other guns in this course of this as if that's some sort of problem. but we continued to have this last year in texas, and i'm a gun owner. i have five guns. we have more than 4,000 in people die in texas from gun violence last year. it's not a lesson we don't know. every single other democracy that is in the developed world doesn't have this problem. we are the only ones in the world with this ongoing problem. >> you know, i -- we don't know what we don't know about what happened today. a motive is not clear. but i'm afraid that we'll just move on so quickly because the

truth is everyone on the subway this morning is terrorized and they'll probably remain terrorized every time they step on to the subway car. and we don't ever deal with that trauma. we don't deal with or do a good job sort of staying with it and i wonder what you think of mayor adams' point today that while the shooting hasn't been classified as an act of terrorism, new york city was terrorized. >> well, it was terrorized and every time there's a mass shooting, it is not terrorism in its strict form, but it's terrorism in its emotional affect. i think part of the problem is we have these things happen and they keep happening and happening then nothing gets done and nothing happens. what that does to people's psyche is they believe nothing can get done. when in reality, we know every other country has done this. australia, england, new zealand

has passed laws that has prevented most of this from happening. we don't know what this person's background, any of that. you can't stop everything, but at least part of the way to get there is to begin to make the attempt and i think part of what the republicans do is they stop this so people just get used to it and then they feel they have no capacity to change it and so then they just operate from a place of fear, which is never a place to make a good decision from. then they say nothing can happen. i think that's been the goal of the pro sort of gun side of this that keeps any laws from happening is just stop it from happening in the moment then you begin to get people so emotionally used to it they throw up their hands and they say nothing can get done. i think what joe biden did is say we may not be able to prevent everything. we may not be able to overcorrect this in its totality, but we can do something. >> he finding the spaces where

he can take action then pursuing them seems to be the plan here. matt dowd, great to see you. thank you for spending some time with us. >> you, too, my friend. >> quick break for us. we'll be right back. >> quick break for us. we'll be right back. ♪ we could walk forever ♪ ( ♪♪ ) ♪ walking on ♪ ♪ walking on the moon ♪ ♪ some ♪ ♪ may say ♪ ♪ i'm wishing my days away ♪

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thank you so much for letting us into hour homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. the beat starts right now. busy news day. hi, ari. >> a lot happening. thank you very much. welcome to the beat. we begin with this man hunt unfolding in new york city. it is one of the largest man hunts in new york history. it's been going ten hours since a man opened fire on that crowded new york city subway today, shooting ten. the commissioner says the suspect put on a gas mask, detonated a smoke device, then just opened fire. you can see the footage here taken by people on the scene. officials have not released any photos of this suspect but they describe him as a 5'5" black

man. they c