i seamlessly transition from near to far. and see every detail in sharp focus. when you see no limits, there are no limits. book now at your local essilor experts to push the limits of your vision. varilux lenses by essilor. . as we come on the air, that big military win for ukraine. it's creates concerns russia could be on the brink of a major escalation. the information coming into us. backing up ukraine's plane, its missile attacks sank russia's key warships. all of it as president volodymyr zelenskyy says russia could use nuclear or chemical weapons. it is getting more and more tense after they sent more

shipments. we will speak with the foreign affairs armed services committee. people hit the roads, what you should know about rising cases in 23 states and about that newly approved breath test that has results ready in minutes. and twitter's board, rolling out the poison pill defense. what the company is doing today to stop a potential elon musk takeover. we got it all covered here on the show. we start with nbc news' courtney cuby at the pentagon and mike memely is at the white house. what are you hearing from your sources what u.s. officials think was behind the singing of that russian warship that was supposed to have strong defenses built in? >> reporter: yeah. that's right. so a senior defense official is echoing what the ukrainians have been saying about 24 hours from now. halle. that is ukrainian neptune missiles were fired after that russian warship. at least one. we are hearing two struck that

ship causing a fire and ultimately causing it hours later to sink. the defense official i spoke to about this, i said this thing, this ship is built for air defenses. request didn't any of its air defense stop these incoming knepp tunes? the u.s. isn't quite sure at this point. but there are three sort of options or theories that they are looking at. one is there was a maintenance issue that may have made the russian air defenses not working at the time. another, they may have simply been shut off. a third is they were fired at such an angle that the russian ship air defenses simply were not effective to stop them. this is a significant blow to the russian military as you well know, halle. there are only three of these types of ships in the russian military ars fal and now one of them is completely taken out. the u.s. still doesn't know exactly any numbers or the scale or scope of any russian casualties on this ship, but several defense official was i

have spoken with said, look, just given the nature of these cruise missiles, the neptune missiles that hit, the reality is russians did take some casualties in this fight. >> it's not just a deal. it's cast by experts, it's embarrassing. this is a humiliating defeat by russia. ukraine seems to be bracing for what comes next. a humiliated putin, embarrassed moscow looking to seek revenge with russia warning of more attacks where are you in kiev. >> reporter: yeah, we have been hearing that from kremlinologists and war experts that basically it seems like vladimir putin thought it was going to be super easy. he was going to roll his tanks across the border and take over at a lot of the escalation, the civilian casualties and what looks like the indiscriminant attacks. a lot of that experts have been attributing to vladimir putin doubling down, because he's invested so much in this fight,

lost so much in terms of international prestige and economics in terms of these sanctions, but he's willing to bet the farm and really, you know, impose more cruelty, even more than he already has on the ukrainian people, ukrainian civilian population. and that's a really alarming development. we heard from president vladimir putin over the past week. he has been warning this is a dangerous new phase. not only is there an increase in bombings again in kiev in the two weeks since it looked like most russian military assets left the environments of this capital city. she warning as you mentioned about chemical and nuclear weapons. there has been one alleged chemical attack in the south, mar open him, that hasn't been confirmed by international observe, but has really raised a lot of alarms, but the threat of nuclear attacks, that's something we heard from military experts that the russians could deploy what are called tactical nuclear weapons.

these are the kind of nuclear weapons that wouldn't necessarily raise whole cities to the ground in this hiroshima or nagasaki scenario. instead, it would be nuclear weapons that could be used on a battlefield against conventional troops. amongst other conventional weapons, it's dangerous, they would leave a nuclear residue that could last for generations. so this is something that is a dangerous new phase in this war. as you said, halle, it's all because president vladimir putin isn't getting what he wants and he does feel like he is humiliated and his back is up, halle. >> let me go to you at the white house there is a couple developments, courtney, are you a part of the reporting team on this, president zelenskyy in a call to president biden asked the president to declare russia a state sponsor of terror. we also have that new warning from russia to the u.s. in this diplomatic note that says u.s. and nato shipments, adding fuel

to the conflict could bring consequences. i know your team says the u.s. is essentially saying, this isn't the the red phone in the oval office. we're not going to over interpret this. we expect this. it is somewhat significant. >>. >> reporter: think about the headline the last two days, it's the significant transfer of even more sophisticated military assistance by the united states to the ukraine up to $800 million worth just this week in the form of more advanced weaponry, howitzers, armored vehicles, and these switch blades, these advanced killer drones as they're called to the ukrainians. well, as this is happening, the russian embassy here in d.c. sending to the state department of what's called a demarrech, a formal communication warning about what they're calling the irresponsible militarization of ukraine. now, for its part, the white house is saying they are receiving this most. they are not viewing it as thereening. as you say, this is not the red

phone in the oval office. but the white house is also touting the fact that this exists. saying it's a demonstration of the fact that the kind of assistance the u.s. is providing to ukraine is having a very real impact on the battlefield and we've heard the white house not necessarily using terms like defensive assistance anymore as they provide this equipment. the white house has been walk ac fine line throughout this process as you know, avoiding moves scene as escalatory. we are seeing that in two forms. one the call from zelenskyy yesterday asking president biden to consider designateing russia as a state sponsor of terror. this is something white house officials have been asked about in the past. secretary of state tony blinken just last month saying it was something they are considering. this is more than just a term of art that would be used. just as we have been talking about genocide. this is a designation that comes with real consequence, much more punishing sanctions that would be imposeed that come with this designation. four other countries are designated as such. the other concern on the part of

the administration, we're hearing it not just from president zelenskyy but bill burns, the cia director, who is warning the desperation we are seeing, the good news on the battlefield, right, comes with risks that the desperation as burns puts it on the part of russia could lead to the potential use of nuclear weapons. it's all a part of the balancing act this white house is monitoring as they await every next move to support ukraine throughout this conflict. >> only four other countries are designated state sponsors of terrorism in the eyes of the u.s., iran, syria, and cuba. what would the significance be as you are reporting president zelenskyy wants him to add russia to that list? >>. >> reporter: that's right, there are implications for it. we have a little more detail about that phone call. a source familiar says this was a very brief mention on is that call. this idea of designating russia as a state sponsor of terror.

president zelenskyy brought it up. but the source familiar says, look, this wasn't something they went back and forth for a long time. it wasn't president zelenskyy fully making the case for this to happen. it was a part of a longer and larger call that focused mainly on military assistance and aid from the united states to ukraine. we spoke with a number of officials about this. it seems other source familia are saying that this may not make a whole lot of sense from a policy consideration. it may not make sense they are reviewing it. in this case the russian military ought ones committing the majority of these potential war crimes and potential atrocities as opposed to the russian government sponsoring another entity doing it. again the biden administration is considering this. an administration official said they have a lot of other options they've enacted to punish russia

for their behavior and things they are considering. this is one possibility. >> thank you. i appreciate it. i want no bring in sarah jacobs from california. congresswoman, thanks for being on the show. good afternoon to you. >> good afternoon to you as well. >> let me pick up where i left off with my colleagues there covering the white house and the pentagon. do you believe that russia should be designated a state sponsor of terrorism? >> look, i know it's something that the white house is considering right now, something that president zelenskyy asked for. i think it's important that for every new too many that we use for every new pressure we put on putin and russia, we do it within a larger strategy, a broader strategy, because at the end of the day, we're trying to get them to change their behavior and to not do this doubling down and escalation which we know can have more horrendous consequences tan we

are already seeing. >> do you think then that it would be a doubling down, that it could create an es thatlation if the u.s. border changes that? i think it would change a diplomatic discussion at the moment. >> a state sponsor has real 77 consequences. it would go above and beyond the sanctions with we have already put on russia and the russian economy and putin, himself. so it would be continuing to add costs and pressures to putin and to the russian government for the actions they are taking and if we do do it, we need the make sure we do it within this broader strategy of trying to get them to change behavior. >> let me cc you about other headlines that emerged, starting about the reporting at the top of the show that senior defense officials tell nbc news the u.s. does believe that russian warship sunk after two ukrainian michelle's hit it? we have been hearing that from you craneian officials. now 23 are hearing it from one u.s. official.

can you tell us the significant significance of this moment and people are talking at the white house given their role in the committee. >> it's clear the ship's sink secretary a real strategic loss for russia and makes it difficult for this him the continue prosecuting parts of this war and the plan they have in place. i also think it shows the strength of the long-range missiles, the neptune missile similar to the howitzer in this new package of security assistance we are sending to ukraine now. but i also think it speaks to this larger thing, which is that we are getting the ukrainians the times of tools that have effective against what russia has and i think as we are looking at our own defense budget, as we are looking at what we need to be investing more in, we are understanding that some of these big shiny things leak the ship that russia had maybe aren't necessarily what we need moving forward. we seen the neptune, the

howitzer, the javelin and sting be successful against big ticket items russia has. >> you talked about the tools to ukraine, it is those tooshlgs weapons, the u.s. is getting this -- tools, weapons, the u.s. is getting this notion about the unintend consequences in the work embassy from the kremlin? >> look, i think that the demarresh that the russian embassy sent was affected. we understand that what we are sending to the ukrainians is clearly helping them in their fight, which is why russia does not want them to continue receiving these weapon shipments from the u.s. and nato partners and allies. around i think that we are already putting in place what we need to be able to support ukrainians if a chemical weapons attack happens. it's why the house are collect

war crimes as in ukraine so that we can work on prosecuing those two are committing the work crimes, they have long been calling for the u.s. to join the ippc officially as a member so we can do everything we can to make sure putin and the russians committing these atrasties are being held accountable at the end of this. >> why is it wrong in your view, i imagine, gifg given your position on the icc on joining them? >> look, i think there have long been concerns about what it would mean for u.s. culpability when it comes to our service members serving abroad. i think that there are things that we can do that can protect against that. i also think that it's important that we are following international law when we are conducting our operations abroad and why i have been leading so many efforts to make sure we are taking into account civilian

casualties in our operations, that we are doing human rights vetting. we are doing the our partnerships with countries around the world and i think that right now what we are seeing is this fight about what the new international order is going to be and whether it's going to be one based on goals and self determination and values, whether it will be one based on might making right. if we are on the side of rules and values, then we need to uphold those rules and values ourselves and we need to hold ourselves accountable as well as when we are asking other countries to do that. i think it's incredibly important both for this conflict and our broader national security moving forward. >> congress him woman, thank you. ahead, twitter launch ac counterattack against elon musk. what the company is doing this afternoon to avoid a possible takeover. plus, we are live in florida. now the ladiest state to

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. finding those easter eggs are a good spot, the dinner table may not be your only concern, covid cases climbing still across the country. trip adviser says a quarter of us plan to travel somewhere. so that has created concern among public health officials you may see an uptech in cases after that. we are seeing half the country as the fda offers first ever breath test. inspector systems claims their carry-on size. that important, carry-on seize breathalyzer device can detect the virus quickly. a couple minutes, three minutes to be specific after they get a sample. joining me is senior medical correspondent dr. john torres, lots to talk about this afternoon. first, let me pull that picture

up and get this breathalyzer test. it requires a trained operator to use. this isn't something you and i will have in our living rooms to check on ourselves and our kids here. pros and cons to something like this i would imagine? >> right, halry, this is not a home test. it will happen in screening centres that they have around the country in different cities. this is another toll in our tool box. this is something that can certainly help out. that's why i think the fda went with an emergency use operation. it took three minutes. so it will take about five minutes, really, the effectiveness depends. the reason i am saying that is it's very effective at telling you, are you negative, if it comes out negative and have you no symptoms. however, on the positivity side, it says you are positive, that effectiveness drops down to 91%. it's 99% on the negative side. 91 on the positive side. to the point the fda says if you get a positive test, you need to

follow that up with a medical authorization. if you are screening people to get into an event and people who don't have symptoms and they test negative and those are the ones you let through, you can be fairly confident they don't have the virus at this point. if somebody tests positive, they have to be tested. it's not very convenient. we don't know the price or availability sore when it's going to be available. but this can certainly help out, halle. >> let's talk about the travel weekend ahead. some families may have stopped doing masking or social distancing. what are your recommendations and what would you tell people who knight might be your patient i patient as they get to get on a plane or a train or a bus as millions people are. >> the first thing is you and i talked about, don't throw your mask. make sure you take them and extra ones with you. assess your situation. from are you going to be? are cases rising in that area or have they risen to a certain level that you need to be

concerned? are you going to meet with people immunocomprised and haven't gotten the booster shots or children who can't get vaccinated at this point, those under the age of five. you look at those situations, it might be that you need to mask up or social distance a little bit more, hopefully, everybody is fully vaccinated, has a beers on hand, is at the point you can be comfortable and enjoy the holiday, the main thing is to protect those around you. >> dr. john torres, thank you. how a conspiracy theory deployed around the world. an attempt to stop elon musks hostile takeover of a social network. we'll talk about that next. socik we'll talk about that next

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[sound of helicopter blades] without talking to your doctor. ugh... they found me. ♪ ♪ nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people have their money just sitting around doing nothing... that's bad, they shouldn't do that. they're getting crushed by inflation. well, i feel for them. they're taking financial advice from memes. [baby spits out milk] i'll get my onesies®. ♪ “baby one more time” by britney spears ♪ good to have you back, old friend. yeah, eyes on the road, benny. welcome to a new chapter in investing. [ding] e*trade now from morgan stanley. some developments in the test world today with twitter taking this big emergency step to try and stop a potential takeover by elon muck. here's what's happening. here's the deal. twitter's board just today moved to put in place what expert analysis call this poison pill,

a shareholders' rights plan. it lets them buy more at a discount. it also makes the company less attractive to somebody trying to buy it out, somebody like elon musk. that's hours after he, of course, ceo of tesla offered to buy the social media empire. in a letter saying he would reconsider owning any twitter stock if they didn't accept his offer. joining us is sarah fryer who has been all over what is fair to call a saga or a drama so far as relates to what happened with twitter and the past week. talk to us with sarah, how much of a crisis is this inside twitter? >> this is absolute whiplash for the company the company thought at first they had a friendly relationship with elon musk, who is a long-time contact of their former ceo jack dorsey and they said he was going to join their board around he decided not to join the board. so they look really caught off guard.

then he launches this hostile takeover bid. what my sources are telling me about this poison pim as it's known, is this a tactic to allow the board to take its time with this? and really discuss it and get elon musk to the negotiating table. because if he just outright buys this, that would cause untold chaos and we really don't know what could happen next. so, from the perspective of the board, of course, there are a lot of people who think it will be better if twitter is private, owned by people leak elon musk, people against it, really right now this company is looking in great trouble no matter what happens. if this board, if this deal does not go through, then their largest shareholder, might pull out and cause turmoil for the stock. if it does go through, elon musk must make twitter private and who knows what happens then. so i really think this is an

incredible turning point for the company, whatever happens. >> you talk about the idea of this poison pill defense, what it means. does it typically make a hostile takeover less attractive? in other words, what is the precedent here? while noting and remembering elon musk is not somebody who likes to track whatever the precedent is? >> reporter: absolutely. elon musk is a guy who goes for his gut here. but what's happening here, a poison pill is commonly used in a hostile takeover situation. we don't see it a lot. in the tech industry, have you companies such as meta, which owns facebook and snap, which owns snapchat, that have founder control companies. say if i want to change something about facebook, i could buy 10% of meta stock and convince them to do it. it's all up to mark zuckerberg, the ceo. twitter is not structured like that. anyone can buy twitter.

anyone can cause twitter to do something, which is why this company has been subject to activist investors, subject takeover bids in the past. this is something that is maybe more dramatic than we've ever seen. but this is a company that has certainly been through a lot of management turmoil and investor turmoil. >> why don't some employees want musk to take over the company? we have been talking to folks on all side of this thing? >> reporter: well, employees, there are some ideological differences that they have with how musk wants to run this. he calls himself a free speech absolutist and the company has done a lot of work in the past few years to try to make twitter a safer place. they've tried to reduce the amount of virlality of harassing comments and violent comments can get. in some cases take down accounts that they think are leading to cause violence such as president

donald trump's account, which famously right after the january 6th riots, they said president donald trump will be permanently band. that was sort of a pinnacle of this company going from this idea their former general counsel used to call them the free speech wing of the free speech party to trying to clean up its act and making people angry in the process. >> sarah fry frier. thank you, we will watch this 21 as it continues to unfold over the next days, weeks, however how long it takes, appreciate it. coming up, republicans in three states now restricting apportion access within three days of each other. we are looking at the probable legal challenges ahead. plus, how investing in crypto currencies may be a way to get more economic freedom and power. we are talking about that later in the show.

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. so florida has now become the latest republican-led state to put in place a new law that restricts women's access to abortion. it bans abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy and comes a day after kentucky put in place something similar and two days after oklahoma's governor signed a bill into law that makes it a felony to perform the procedure. kerry sanders is in ft. lauderdale, florida. kerry, the legal fight now over what's happening, not just in florida but in some of the other states across the country is all but certain to be unfolding relatively soon as here in washington. we have the supreme court to announce this ruling soon on one of the most significant challenges to roe versus wade. >> reporter: yeah. that law that you are talking about is the mississippi law, which is sort of the blueprint for what they've done here in florida, which says that in nevada you cannot get an abortion after 15 weeks.

unless the mother's life is in danger or there is a fatal fetal abnormality. no longer included would be the reasons to say that there was rape or incest. and so, statistically, when you look at it, based on the numbers today about 60,000 abortions are performed in florida in a year. only about 4800 happen in that post-15-week period. but all eyes are on this mississippi law and the supreme computer because the conservative justices on the supreme court in december, at least, indicated that they may actually uphold the mississippi law and if they uphold the mississippi law, that would then apply to florida and other states. and so really i think the attention is when does the supreme court rule on that? that's likely to happen in the coming weeks.

the supreme court doesn't give us the schedule, you know well, on when they're going to share their opinions. but it's coming soon. >> smart money in late june, right, kerry? we'll see. kerry sanders live for us there in ft. lauderdale, thank you for that update. turning to the west coast, one california senator is putting out a press release, a statement, not to tout some new bill or plan, but to actually push back on claims she is not able to hold her seat. we are talking about dianne feinstein, several staffers have noticed her memory is rapidly deteriorating. nbc news has not verified the chronicles reporting. in the statement today, we saw her ticking off her achievements and added in her word, the real question is whether i'm still an effective representative for 40 million californians, and the record shows that i am. i want to bring in ali vitale who walked across the street to

join us on set. this is not the first time she has faced questions similar to this. it is an incredible pushback by the senator around her office here. >> it's stunning when you see an article leak that, quoting anonymously but other senators, her colleagues, who are talking about the fact that they think she is not the law maker that she once was and having questions about her fitness to continue holding this office. i was particularly struck by one of the things she said to the san francisco chronicle when she called them the day after this story posted. she did that outreach. >> her office. >> she didn't talk to the initial story. he spoke to the board. she says, i meet regally lar with leaders. i am not isolated. i see the people. my attendance is good. i put in the hours. my attendance is good, i see people. i take the votes. i was talking to someone today, she is not, not doing the job. which technically is showing up

and taking the vote. in terms of where this goes, though, you can't make a senator resign in their seat and certainly that's not something that people are calling for right now at all. but it is sort of a reminder here that this is an older body. there are people there who are well into their 80s, including feinstein. i think the other piece that's striking is the people that talked to the san francisco chronicle, they're talking about the lends of her legacy, the trail blazer she was one of the women elected in the 1992 year of the woman that ushered four senators at that missouri she was one of them. i think there are questions about her legacy, now at the end of her career. throughout all of the initial allegations, there has been that question of, all right. but what about her legacy? this is someone who was and is iconic in washington. >> good to see you, thank you very much for staying withs. coverups, body doubles and

the pope, investigating a wild covid conspiracy theory that turns one person's life into a weapon for disinformation. that's iconic in washington.

that's next. that's next. >> . >> it feels like crypto is everywhere these days with new data putting the black community among the top investors. this has commission wondering whether digital economy can close the gap. germane, this is the question that are you getting into on your podcast. talk to us about what you found. >> halle, we all heard this story of people who became millionaires investing in crypto. but for many black and brown people, it's not about getting a piece of the pie. they're trying to get a piece of freedom. let's listen. >> reporter: crypto is everywhere, it's in ads featuring celebrity endorsements and sports endorsements where the mayors of miami and new york are receiving part of their paychecks in crypto currency. there is no doubt, crypto is hot. in the scenes that black and brown feel are fueling some of

the heat. a harris poll last year say a quarter of black adults own some crypto currency compared to 11 pars of white people. what is behind historically marginalized communities, black and brown once kept out of wealth-building financial systems. it's happening in upstart digital currencies. >> the thing about freedom is it spreads quickly. when people realize how they can get free. people will do things to get more free. even if that means getting into something that might be a little more risky. >> reporter: on a chilly day in d.c., a small enthusiasts and entrepreneurs of crypto came together to raise the awareness as a means of financial freedom for black and latino communities. niga roberts the founder and ceo of crypto black club, one of a few brick and mortar crypto exchanges in the country. she is traveling to 41 cities in

45 days, hitting non-white communities to educate them about crypto. >> i found myself young harriet leading my people out of financial slavery. it is time to take our finances into our own hands. >> reporter: she found adventure capital company that funds black crypto startups. how should black folks be thinking about crypto currency? >> they should embrace wit curiosity and a desire to understand. if we get this right and we're early in financing, createling, building this new generation of the internet and technology, then we can economically be free magnificently. >> reporter: but critics say the thing that makes crypto a lure from large communities, which is decentralization, lack of government control or oversight are the exact reasons most people should be extremely cautious. >> i am not an advocate of the current economic system. i am clear this is not the

solution sapped in part of an offensive distraction from us getting back to the questions of where do we get political power and how do we assure whatever wealth gets created is distributed so this level of inequality isn't possible. >> reporter: back at the rally, these advocates agree, crypto may not be a panacea, but they say it's still worth the risks. >> i guess we should be skeptical. but us staying here where we are is unacceptable. we have to move forward. we have to move forward with the best with the world we create period. >> the advocates i spoke with says, if you are interested in getting into crypto, couple things, one, research, research, research, never put in more than you can afford. they say that even though there is no magic bull tote cut down the racial wealth gap, crypto could be another tool in the arsenal in the economic revolution. halle. >> did anything in the course you were reporting on this surprise you as you were

learning more about this issue? >> i think just the fewer numbers. when we hear crypto, for many of us, myself included, we are learning about this. it can be confusing. there are so many people investing. also, people are making their own coins. a woman created a by black people for the brag community. i think it sounds foreign but a lot of innovation in the space. >> thank you so much. thank you for bringing that to us. you got to listen to "into america" wherever you get your podcasts. turning now to breaking news from the white house. the president and first lady releasing the tax returns from the past return showing they paid more than $150,000 at a rate of 25%. let's bring in mike memoli -- white house correspondent, nbc news correspondent, sorry. it's been a long friday. >> reporter: a long week. >> sifting through the returns,

what do we know. this is just coming out. >> reporter: literally just got these. this is an easter weekend and a weekend many american es dread. tax day. the white house putting out the president's and first lady's income taxes this year because some news is the fact that we have a first lady which for the first time has a day job. a community college professor. northern virginia community college. what we learned looking at the tax returns is joint income is $67,000 in income from the first lady's teaching job. of course it includes the president's -- $400,000 a year the salary as the president and prorated, of course. the biden's reporting some income from royalties on the book sales and also the income taxes for the second couple, the vice president and her husband

doug imhoff. they get the vice president's salary and there in the tax returns the vice president sold property in san francisco accounting for a more significant income and the vice president still collecting book royalties. i want to focus on two numbers that the white house is mentioning in their press release. 24 years, how many years of tax returns we have for the bidens and 18 for the vice president harris. >> that is very intentional. >> reporter: you know because presidents typically release the tax returns and a tradition for all four years but during the trump administration. >> thank you. i don'ten vi you on the task. thank you. if you watch with regularity, we like to track where the conspiracy theesh theories are. it comes with a host of

conspiracies. think the moon landing. jfk's assassination and the covid. many online pseudosleuths deciding everything to do with the virus is not how it seems. some people claiming without evidence the shot is rigged with tracking devices. it is not. a profit scheme or a government-run mind tool. also not. a new nbc news podcast is exploring a theory that hijacked the life of the woman it was based on. >> welcome to a sbefr net weirdest obsessions. >> that chick might actually be dead. >> it's a story about a regular person. >> my name is tiffany, the manager in c cu. >> a nurse that got the covid vaccination. >> offers us hope. >> then things went off script.

>> i feel really dizzy. i'm sorry. >> i look at the photographer like what's going on and fapts into their arms. >> i feel fine now. >> her name is tiffany dover and was fine except for one problem. the internet didn't believe it. >> let me bring in brandy. this is super interesting. this conspiracy theory that this woman died. she didn't. it's a conspiracy theory but her life became so up ended from this. >> yeah. it really was wild to watch. just to give people at home a little taste of it, imagine most of us on facebook or a social media platform and imagine every photo posted of your children, your husband and job, every

single photo and post was taken and sort of put on a truther bill board and used it to create this wild story about you, your family members and colleagues. it is disconcerting. for example, tiffany couldn't go on vacation without people combing over the vacation photos posted by a family member. you realize there's not a thick line between online and real life and when they get meshed it can be really scary. >> you have talked publicly about how when you heard about the story a year ago, right? you got very engaged with tiffany and what this meant and the microstory that told a bigger picture. explain that. >> yeah. i think as you know very well misinformation reporting is really putting out fires.

right? trying to find every lie and get to the bottom before you have to move on. this was an example. when tiffany fainted it was when the vaccines were first made available. a day that everybody was excited about and watching the local news stations to see the nurses get the shots in arms. people crying in joy. it was a glorious day and then this thing happened. the faint happened. what happened after that was all of the people in the world betting against this vaccine, anti-vaxxers, leapt on to the moment and blew it up and sort of took over a large part of the world. >> how do you help to push back on that? there's this -- i don't know this for a fact. right? i would imagine that some theorists that believe a body double jumped back up and pretended to be tiffany. like don't know that they're

necessarily the target audience for the podcast so how do you think about the engagement of people falling prey to these conspiracy theorys? >> i had so much time to sit with this one story and been able to think about the type of conspiracy theorists or people prone to believing them and i think in terms of dabblers and the true believers and there are people on the planet who give up the family, the dreams, the jobs to focus on conspiracy theories and when you invest that much of your life it is hard to prove to someone what they believe isn't true. the dabblers, we can reach them. that's what i hope to do with this. >> thank you so much. i'm looking forward to the podcast. i can't wait to listen to it. thank you. listen wherever you get the podcasts.

wherever you find them. that does it for this hour of msnbc reports next week. next hour with nicolle wallace and "deadline: white house" right after the break. " right after the break. i'm so lucky to get him back. your heart isn't just yours. protect it with bayer aspirin. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. thinkorswim® by td ameritrade is more than a trading platform. it's an entire trading experience. that pushes you to be even better. and just might change how you trade—forever. because once you experience thinkorswim® by td ameritrade ♪♪♪ there's no going back.

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it is 4:00 in new york. happy friday. an enormously significant confirmation this afternoon from