that's it for me this hour, i'll be on castro this weekend for at least someone in this. a few back here tomorrow at 6 pm eastern for more american voices. a man. >> hey, how are you? >> i'm doing great. >> i was gonna say, there anything you can do? because you do it all, and now you're getting into tv. so i got, asked anything you can do? >> a lot of things, but we won't talk about that right now. >> well, listen i gotta say, i enjoyed watching you tonight, and i look forward to watching again tomorrow, and hopefully many more nights as well. good to see you my friend. >> good to see you. >> take care.

good evening everyone, welcome to ayman. coming up this hour, president biden goes where otherworldly does have. not we means now that he is calling the war in ukraine genocide. plus, never before seen text messages implicate more congressional republicans and efforts to overturn the election. and then, the grassroots effort across the u.s. this working to combat conservative restrictions on abortion. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. we begin tonight with breaking news on the way in ukraine. another russian general has died. exactly according to russian state media. major general vladimir for aloft is now if these are the eight russian general to be killed since mcconville ukraine. you see weeks, you had high

ranking officers woven pushed on the frontlines after a series of battlefield defeats. we should note that nbc news has not immensely verified the generals that's, but today, ukraine authorities released this new video showing what they say is the city of kharkiv moments after a russian strike. and officials say that studies attack left at least one person killed and 18 wounded. kharkiv is just one of several cities that have been targeted by russia in the last 24 hours. document attacks elsewhere, including places like kyiv, kherson, and michaela. all that comes at the heel of the request by president zelenskyy. , he asked the biden ministration to call russia sponsor of terrorism. for people at home, this will trigger the most aggressive sanctions from the u.s., yet. with restrictions on financial transactions, and defense

exports, as well as sales, including foreign aid to russia. the u.s. does in fact follow through on this, russia will join a company of i'm full of countries. president zelenskyy's request coincides with what seems to be a new state of u.s. involvement in ukraine. this week, present biden ratchet that the rhetoric on moscow by saying this. >> the ability to fill up your tank should not hinge on whether a dictator declares war and commits genocide half a world away. i call it genocide because it's become clear and clear that putin is trying to wipe out ukrainians. >> those comments action like the first time that president biden has leveled such an accusation against vladimir putin. using that specific word of genocide. zelenskyy, pressed by, said

that biden's comments were actually true words of a true leader. i should be clear here that biden's assessment actually has no legal value. it's important to make that distinction, because here in the united states, it's actually the state department and not the president that makes the determinations on whether mass killings amounted genocide. populist takes years. the united states, your perspective, we have only made eight formal determinations of genocide since the holocaust. the most urgent one being the genocide in denmark. but he did not backup his words with action. back to fall to on that. we should note that they're ramping up more efforts to supply the ukrainians with weapons. this week, that administration announced another $800 million and military assistance where ukraine. then you pack includes weapons and ammunition like artillery systems, our and personal carriers, and the chance for of m 17 helicopters.

that eight miles from came at the same time the russia issued a new warning to washington. this week, moscow sunday formal diplomatic note to the u.s. that shipments of some weapons systems to ukraine were adding fuel to the conflict and could bring what they called, quote, unpredictable consequences. we mounted this because this is holden triplett, the former director of counterintelligence at the national security council. he's also the former deputy head of the fbi office in moscow. david roads also back with us is editor of the new yorker. he's an msnbc contributor. gellman it's nice to get you here. holden, on a side with, you get your action on the package about the administration. it also comes with a new promise of more and better intelligence sharing by the united states with the ukrainians. look how different academic on the ground?

i remember leon this conflict i asked other experts whether or not providing any kind of realtime intelligence that ukrainians could be seen as a provocation by the russians. the consensus of the time was yes. it seems though things have changed. would you come down on providing the thumbs for the ukrainians? >> i do think it has changed. i think it is implicit within the presidents government of genocide. he is escalating the support for ukraine. these weapons and intelligence could be considered offensive, who have mental, now north of the sport the united states has been giving was defensive in nature. that's still how they're basically been characterized, but does helicopters and tanks and specific weaponry being used, succumbing considered offensive. which is why we got a pretty song worded response from the russians. so i think this is absolutely an increase in support.

we saw getting very close those offensive opens ukrainians. i think the reason the square, because the president says genocide is been committed. >> david, if you take a look back at this week. there are more notes about moscow warning, unquote, unpredictable consequences. you had the director of the cia expressed concern about the use by russia of tactical nuclear weapons. although there's no evidence that that is and works as we. but when you look at the totality of this week, welcome certainly the most i'm not gonna mean that russia is warning of unpredictable consequences? >> i'm wearing a new phase where there will be a months long and bloody battle. in the donbas, and in the eastern region. there's a new york times story

today saying what will be tank battles unfolding. and absolutely applaud the biden administration for sending these weapons. they are the kind of weapons, the artillery rounds, that the ukrainians are gonna need to when and the donbas region. i think this is putin's last-ditch effort to declare this war a success. he's losing he's miscalculated, i think he's absolutely a workman. were crimes that men committed here. >>, yeah anna go back to the, holden, for a second. words like war crimes, genocide, this week the biden administration, specifically joe biden, use that word. as i mentioned, it follows the use of his call for a worker mistrial against vladimir putin. their diplomatic style of play here, is the president speaking off the cuff? because there's also the assessment that ratcheting of the diplomatic rhetoric on vladimir putin in russia means

that there's no exit route for him to walk down from. is nothing to lose, so to speak, if you know that you will end up at the hague, and he's been accused of committing, genocide. >> i think there's a little bit at play here. the state department is the one that can determine whether genocide happens. and i think that the concern would be that, once you've gone down the road, what is the off ramp for putin? but the other side to it, to, is it doesn't mean for the u.s. administration? if we declare that there has been genocide, and it continues to be committed in ukraine, we have limited support, that is what is still. and it is willing to support for ukraine. what does that say to putin, or to any other leader who might be considering similar types of actions? and, so i want to be very careful about essentially, calling out one of the highest crimes committed, or the highest crimes unit during the war. and then still giving limited support. and i think they're trying to be very careful with the wording here. >> yeah, and to the point of

diplomatic language, david, you had the president of france, after biden's comments, declined to characterize what the russian military is doing as genocide, saying his goal is to stop this war and rebuild peace, and not use rhetoric to escalate tensions with the russia. is there fear, even among our western allies, that this kind of language could potentially do more harm than good in the long run? >> i think the fear is that it's an empty threat. and the success, the credit for president biden, as offensively as worked with the europeans. out of much rather seen him announce, with the europeans, with the germans in particular that has governments, they believe russia is committing genocide. and then go at putin's jugular. and that is getting germany to stop buying billions of dollars of russian natural gas. ukrainians are running on the battlefield, the only thing that's keeping balloons washing going is german and european purchases of natural gas that

will, cutting that awful hard germans and european consumers, but, take your time. use the genocide label later as a tool to rally the europeans. and the european public to make that sacrifice. putin is losing, is in a very weak position this is last chance to somehow claim victory in eastern ukraine. but he's hanging on, economically. and that's why, rather than labels on return, cut off the sales -- sorry, the purchase of russian natural gas. strangle putin's economy, and his war machine. >> holden, let me ask you, finally, if i can, about the optics of boris johnson's visit to ukraine and kyiv, and walking around through downtown kyiv with the president zelenskyy. this, week present biden said that he was working with his team to determine whether he would send a senior administration official to ukraine. the press secretary, jen psaki, was asked about this. let me out play this for you.

so, while it might not be biden himself was signaling thing with sent that high-ranking officials, where there's apartments of the uk, bass even a high-ranking officially in the united states, that president, but even secretary of state, making the journey to the heart of the war zone, kyiv which as we noted today, it was also struck. >> i think it was on the very strong message that we are shoulder to shoulder the ukraine and we are supporting them. i think the concern would be that if something happened to them, eventually by the russians, essentially a dark on the middle of a cross fire amid a high-level u.s. official killed in ukraine deals would then be in a position where i felt like he needed to respond.

things could escalate very quickly. so i think the u.s. should be very careful about something anyone there would be anywhere close to the war zone just for essentially after a picture with zelenskyy. because it could lead to severe escalation. >> david, what are your thoughts, i'll symbolism, want significance? or both? >> i think, high on symbolism, and was significance. and this is where zelenskyy should be declaring that this is genocide. it's different when joe biden, the president of the united states, given the multi powerhouse, nuclear weapons we have, they go up as that russia have. you have to go slowly, and be deliberate. again, he is losing, so let's bring down the rhetoric, and continue supporting the ukrainians they continue putting that cannot pressure on them. >> all right, gentlemen, david

roads, hold on trump, but thank you for starting us off this evening. so, that we're gonna switch gears. when we come, back which republican makers are now being linked to the efforts to overturn the 2020 election? we have the names, why after this. e names, why after this this ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us.

♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things.

welcome to your world. your why. what drives you? what do you want to leave behind? what do you want to give back? what do you want to be remembered for? that's your why. it's your purpose, and we will work with you every step of the way to achieve it. at pnc private bank, we'll help you take care of the how. so tell us - what's your why? ♪♪ xfinity mobile runs on america's most reliable 5g network, but for up to half the price of verizon, so you have more money for more stuff. this phone? fewer groceries. this phone? more groceries! this phone? fewer concert tickets.

this phone? more concert tickets. and not just for my shows. switch to xfinity mobile for half the price of verizon. that's a savings of over $500 a year. switch today. xfinity mobile runs on america's most reliable 5g network, but for up to half the price of verizon, so you have more money for more stuff. this phone? fewer groceries. this phone? more groceries! this phone? fewer concert tickets. this phone? more concert tickets. and not just for my shows. switch to xfinity mobile for half the price of verizon. that's a savings of over $500 a year. switch today. we need a animal. this was an actual quote, believe it or not, and might not like that is something

going from ukrainian general speaking to his american counterpart. but actually, the saw republican congressman chip roy reportedly texted than mark meadows, just four days after the 2020 election. the very same day that joe biden was announced as the president elect. congressman roy said, we need i'm, will we need fraud examples, we needed this weekend. congressman roy and republican senator mike lee sent dozens of messages, like this, the meadow's between election day 2020, and the infamous capitol riot day, january the 6th. the messages were authenticated by the new york times as well as other outlets. and are now reportedly in the position of the january six committee. remarkably, both roy, and ali, stand behind those messages. joining me now is california congresswoman jackie speier. she is the member of the house intelligence committee. thank you so much for coming back on the program. we've been talking over the

past couple of months over many points but i want to get your action on these tax images messages from roy and julie. every time we think we learned the totality of the messages and the collaboration, if you will, something else drops and we're just as much stunned. >> i think it's just an indication that the committee has a treasure trove of documents that are incriminating. and the fact that some of these are leaking out, that they have much much more. firstly, android, both of whom are ardent supporters of donald trump, you could see how -- over the course of two positions, it evolved dramatically. there are moves to side with the president where they said he was fraud. and they said, show us fraud. and then there was evidence

there was not. really, -- they voted to certify the electoral college votes. so, very powerful statements from both being supportive of the president and then moving away from him. and i think we're gonna have a soon is that there was a clear conspiracy to overturn the election. there was an intent to call for martial law, and then president trump intended to take over the country under a despotic position. >> yeah, and that is a serious allegation and one that has gotten a lot of traction given orders emerged from the january six committee. but the troubling thing, congresswoman, is that congressman roy says he has no apologies for what he texted. yet a spokesperson for senator lee told the new york times that the most just tell the

story of a u.s. senator fulfilling his duty to utah on the american people by following the constitution. i mean, how does that make you feel? then you work at a branch of government, dear your public and colleagues boasting about their efforts to overturn the 2020 election, unapologetically. >> well, actually. i read it a little differently. they were saying they're willing to side with the president, then-president, until such point that it was clear there was no evidence. and, i think that's why we should focus on. there's no question that in the end, they were one of a handful of republicans, two thirds of the republicans voted to overturn the elections in both pennsylvania and in arizona. roy is not one of them. so, he actually, i, thing stood up to the. i don't agree with them on many

things, but that was a courageous display. two thirds of his colleagues did not vote to actually certify the election. >> no, and that's a fair point. it's a fair point about how he ultimately voted on a reflection of where you saw this was going after the fact that there was no evidence of fraud. but how do you think the january six committee should respond? now that these texts have been made public? >> i don't know that they should absolutely respond to texts that somebody got out. they play their cards very close to the vest. they've been very few efforts to leak information by any sides. and i would suggest the important thing of this, point is to get this information in front of the american people. it's time. and i think they're poised to actually open these hearings and be made aware of the documents they have.

the recordings they have. the american people have a right to know, at this point. >> i think the american people will be watching those hearings become public and get underway. congresswoman jackie speier california always a pleasure, thanks for making time for us tonight. >> great to be with you. >> coming up, inside the grassroots efforts to combat republican restrictions on abortion in this country. restrictions on abortion in this country [ chantell ] when my teeth started to deteriorate, abortion in this country i stopped hanging out socially. it was a easy decision -- clearchoice. [ awada ] the health of our teeth plays a significant role in our overall health. chantell was suffering, and we had to put an end to that. the absolute best way to do that was through dental implants. [ chantell ] clearchoice dental implants changed everything. my digestive health is much better now. i feel more energetic. the person that i've always been has shown up to the party again. wayfair's got just what you need to be outdoorsy. i feel more energetic. your way!

shop the biggest selection of outdoor furniture and furnish your habitat from you habitat. get a new grill and cook over an open flame. now that's outdoorsy! go wild on garden decor. find shelter from the elements and from predators. or just be one with nature. this year spend less and go all outdoorsy at wayfair. ♪ wayfair you got just what i need ♪ [♪♪] did you know you can address one of the root causes of aging by targeting all the cells in your body? try tru niagen. life as we know it cannot exist without nad. as we age, nad can decrease by as much as 50%. tru niagen is proven to increase nad, to support heart and muscle health,

and energy production that starts in your cells. address one of the root causes of aging with tru niagen, researched by the world's top scientific institutions.

inner voice (design studio owner): i'm over here waiting... ... looking intensely for a print that i never actually printed... ... so i don't have to deal

with that terrifying pile of invoices. intuit quickbooks helps you easily send your first invoice in 3 steps. simple. - [narrator] this is dr. katz. he used to worry about the world's oral health problems. - i think i've got it! we've been saying time and time - [narrator] then, he invented therabreath formulas, for fresh breath, healthy gums, dry mouth, and healthy smiles. - [dr.katz] wow! - [narrator] now, the world's mouths have never been healthier. - (sighs contentedly) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. again, roe v. wade is on the docket. and a couple months of now, if not sooner, the supreme court is expected to roll on a mississippi case designed to overturn the fundamental right abortion in this country. enter jessica roger, just goes new cover story for that line to chronicle underground network of activists who

covertly, and sometimes, legally, are trying to make sure when we keep the right to do. but at jessica rights, rule already feels unnecessary, because many counties don't have health clinics offers abortion. just got joins us now. thanks for making time for us. breakdown for us what abortion access looks like for the average woman in a red state in america. >> it's very complicated. as we, know nearly 90% of u.s. counties on have a clinic offering abortions. there have been more than 1300 restrictions since rolls rolled on in 1971. most of them designed to make it more difficult for women to access that kind of a care. for a lot of people, the time and money that takes actually access that care can be a huge wall, in some cases, which is why there is a grassroots that have sprung up and has been

active for years. abortion funds, by fuel support groups, clinic escorts, doctors. all this tells us how difficult it is already in the u.s. to get an abortion, even with a rule still the law of the land. >> and there are six states that have enacted abortion bans so far in 2022. 13 have, so-called, trigger bans which go into effect of roe's overturned. and the question, is if the supreme court does overturn it, or at least directing drastically weakens, it what is the day after that decision looks like? >> drastically different. because you did mention those trigger bands. i'm following on the heels of that, there are 26 states that are believed to be preparing to ban roe if the supreme court gives them space to do so. if you wanna looks like, we already had a preview, because the texas law, which was in effect just in the six-week ban,

and sent many women scrambling to find abortions elsewhere, if they could. if they could afford to do that. there were bottlenecks in neighboring states. there were clinics from washington state, the maryland. that was a rise in texas patients. we know texas has won in ten of reproductive age in the u.s.. so that was a pretty big double. no mention of 26 states -- with some very jumbled up situation. s -- wi>> can you tell us a little bt about the underground of abortion it works that you looked into? what did you learn about how they operate, how people find them, how accessible they are to women? >> yeah, well, and the activist will tell you that, some of what one might call the underground is actually hidden in plain sight. it's the people doing this unglamorous work, the abortion funds getting people where they need to be, in terms of funding and practical support and care. then there are other people who

realize that a different world is coming. some of them start speaking about this when trump was campaigning on an anti row platform, promising to do just what he did, which is stacked supreme court with conservative justices who wanted a chance to overturn roe. so right now, there are activists in mexico, who are gearing up to help woman access abortion. we know that one of the, more than half of abortions in the u.s. right now are accomplished with medication abortion. that's a protocol involving two pills. since 2018, they have been available from aid access, which is a european nonprofit. they are available all over the country. there is a website called plan c pills, and since they can be mailed, even though some places are moving to make that illegal, it's gonna be really difficult for people to put that back in the bottle. so bills are definitely going to a big part of whatever

happens next and underground. >> jessica, in your piece, you describe how abortion became so politicized in america. and it always is mind-boggling, because the overwhelming majority of americans believe in the right of abortion. can you share what you found about how this became such an issue? >> yeah, surprisingly, actually. because we know that most americans don't want to be row overturned. and if you go back, early on before scientists when people were, before they -- the quickening, which under british kamala was fetal movement, before that, they would offer forward doctors characterized as a blocked man sees. fast fast forward in time, and we see the medical can profession doctors who are not quite so together as they are delivering what they promised in terms of care. they're trying to regulate the

profession to drive out competition, including traditional healers and midwives, and part of that, which was literally called the physician's crusade against abortion. part of that was a savvy businessman over on the part of the physicians. and part of it was nativism and racism, in that we know, there was a lot of concern, anglo-saxon protestants, when they realize that many women of the middle and upper classes -- and it wasn't just people who are so-called desperate characters. literally, the doctor who lent this physicians crusade, said that keeping america in the racial makeup that you want to see literally rested on the loins of their woman. i mean, it's pretty wild. it sounds like the charlotte of language, when you go back and look at that history. >> yeah, just absolutely incredible, just to hear that kind of language. is there, jessica, a woman or any woman story, one woman

story, that you found particularly moving, or powerful in your reporting? >> so many of them. i mean, i spoke with one woman was 88, and was working with underground in the 70s. but i did speak with one activist on the west coast, who learned of a woman in texas, a young woman, barely a teenager, 13 years old, who have gotten pregnant, did not want to be, and she managed to get pills in the mail for her. they showed up right around the time that ban went into effect, and she literally made this teenager a little package with a novel, and some coffee, and just that kind of kindness to a stranger. and i think that's the sort of solidarity that some of these networks are hoping to create before and after whatever happens in june happens. >> it's absolutely incredible to think that this is the state of women's reproductive rights here in america, in the year 2022. jessica bruder, thank you so much for putting a spotlight on that with your excellent reporting. appreciate you making some time

for us. >> thanks so much. >> still ahead, desperate calls for justice is grand rapids michigan, following the deadly police shooting of patrick lyoya. lyoya. you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need? oh, like how i customized this scarf? wow, first time? check out this backpack i made for marco. oh yeah? well, check out this tux. oh, nice. that'll go perfect with these. dude... those are so fire. [whines] only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ ♪♪

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪

if you want to stay out of jail, you need to go good. ♪♪ this is a chance to find a better life for you and your friends. help grandma cross the street. yeah. he's gonna blow it. you think i can't do this? ow! >> on april 4th, a grand rapids, michigan police officers shot 26-year-old patrick lyoya and the back of the head. the shooting occurred following an altercation during a traffic

stop. lyoya, a local factory worker and devoted farther, died on the scene. and it's worth noting that lyoya was relatively new to this country. about five years ago, he fled civil war and the democratic republic of congo, seeking a better safer, happier life in america. tragically, brutality was waiting for him here. the video of the shooting is absolutely horrifying. a white agent of the state fires his pistol, execution style, into the head of a black man. now, this recording was released by the grand rapids police department, and certain portions were blocked by the police, not by nbc news. michigan state police are investigating the shooting, which is standard procedure anytime a local officer use this deadly force. and grand rapids chief of police, eric winstrom, released a statement after the incident, saying that he was committed to providing information as transparently and as quickly as the investigation allows. and the killing has inspired

local protesters, one can imagine. but otherwise, the exhibit appears poised to disappear from the headlines. whether or not the officer involved is charged, or even publicly named. look, i know there are so much going on in the world right now, both here and the u.s. and elsewhere. and all of that needs our attention. the war in ukraine, the republican attack on voting rights, lgbtq rights, inflation, covid, and more. and yet, we must find space to continue highlighting these tragedies. we cannot lose sight of the fact that unarmed black men are still being killed by police officers, in america in 2022. and with hope that george floyd's murder, at the hands of police, would actually be a turning point in this country, that police departments and city governments will going to enact changes that will make these shootings less frequent. but two years on, it is clear nothing has changed. in 2019, 1089 people were killed in police related

incidents. that is according to the nonprofit, mapping police violence. in 2021, it was 1137 people. so look, we must continue to highlight these tragedies, because until reform happens, institutional reform, at every level of government, it's likely that these events will continue to occur. and there will soon be another patrick lawyer, a black man who escaped civil war for a better life, who's now dead at the age of 26 here in america. coming up, i'm gonna speak with a former u.s. ambassador at large for war crimes, about the horse taking place inside ukraine. and what, if anything, can be done to hold russia accountable? accountable? (upbeat music) - [narrator] this is kate. she always wanted her smile to shine. now, she uses a capful of therabreath healthy smile oral rinse to give her the healthy, sparkly smile she always wanted. (crowd cheering) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores.

covid-19 moves fast, and now you can too by asking your healthcare provider if an oral treatment is right for you. oral treatments can be taken at home and must be taken within 5 days from when symptoms first appear. if you have symptoms of covid-19, even if they're mild don't wait, get tested quickly. if you test positive and are at high risk for severe disease, act fast ask if an oral treatment is right for you. covid-19 moves fast and now you can too.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. >> there is a sobering report

that has come out from ukraine's police. more than 100 civilian bodies have been discovered in the region surrounding the

ukrainian capital, following the withdrawal of russian forces. most of them, fatally shot. an indication, according to the police, the ukrainians are being quote, simply executed. this week, rolling stone detailed the complex and almost impossible process necessary to prove that vladimir putin's regime should be, and can be charged with war crimes. joining me now, the former u.s. ambassador at large for war crime issues in the office of global criminal justice. ambassador, thank you so much for joining us. as rolling stone noted this week, cases involving war crimes, they take a long time to get to the courts. and even when they go to trial, these trials oftentimes, and in acquittals. give me a reality check here, how realistic is it that vladimir putin will actually be held accountable? or even be charged? >> well, i think it's extremely likely that he will be charged. the international criminal court has jurisdiction, overwork rhymes committed, in ukraine since 2014.

the country gave it to the icc in 41 countries then referred it to the state parties, to the prosecutors. and there's no immunity for head of state or for defense ministers, or the foreign ministers, or anyone like that. and then, we have literally massive war crimes which have been committed by russian forces inside ukraine. and, it often happens, certainly won't have tribunal in the past, and i've prosecuted two of them and they yugoslavia tribunal within 45 days off milosevic beginning ethnic cleansing and kosovo. he was indicted by the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia. 16 months later, he could steal enough votes to stay in office, and 25 months later, he was in the hague. many people didn't think that would ever happen. the challenge, in many of the situations, is of course that, how do you do cooperation, how do you get the leader of a great power like russia remove their weapons to surrender?

how do you create a situation where people are pushing aside, because there's gonna be incentives to comply with an international order, the elimination of sanctions, there we entry into the international financial system. i mean, if you are serious about justice, we have to make russia's, you know economy, you know dependent, frankly on compliance with international law. because we're seeing massive defiance of it, and murder in these 900 bodies, represent executions. there is no way they're justified. they are work rhymes it's because they're civilians and they're widespread and systematic. they're also war crimes against humanity, and for that, he can be charged. others involved in the crime can be charged in ukraine, of course, and a recurring in prosecutor with the international assistance is working very hard to investigate the broadest range of crimes that are being committed, both in these areas

that were formerly russian occupied, where you had these brutal crimes against ordinary civilians, but also, of course, the bombardment, gone in a way that's entirely inconsistent with the laws of war. not against military targets, but in order to destroy whole cities like mariupol. and to in fact, prevent the civilian population who's received from receiving food and medicine, which clearly is an intentional crime of starvation, and also, part of the indiscriminate use of military force that it affects the civilian population as much as the military. >> so, let me pick up on the point that you said. because you raised a lot of several important points, i wanna go back to the new york times here for a moment. they released a month-long report documenting the terrors, just in the city of bucha, and what they faced their, including this map detailing all the atrocities, including constant sniper threats. i guess, my question to you is, how do you determine that what

happened in a place like bucha, hundreds of miles away from moscow, is based on the orders that were given from vladimir putin, and not some, you know, either rogue general, rogue officers who wanted to punish putin? because if putin himself is going to be charged, you have to demonstrate and establish that the events in bucha were directly as a result of the orders that he gave. or am i wrong? >> you don't have to do that. at the international level. otherwise, you can prove these crimes -- the leader, the commander, and the civilian commander in chief has responsibility for the forces under his command. and if he knows what they're doing, or has their reasons to know, and then fails to take action to prevent, or punish the conduct, he is responsible in the same way as if he put a bullet in the back of 900 human beings. it's not a dereliction of duty, it is a crime. and so, if you can show the

notice going up to putin, if you can show that these are regular units, that are within the command of russian army, and of course, it's important to build that structure and this information available to do that. you can win a case on what we call command responsibility. as a prosecutor, i'd like to do more than that. i'd like to get the orders. i'd like to see that this is part of a pattern of conduct, a way in which the russians, in fact, are terrorizing the civilian population, and doing it intentionally. and certainly, they have been intercepts of communication. russia has been extremely negligent about the radio intercepts, the radio frequencies. and the interceptions in which people eventually heard orders given, just kill them, just call them all! and that kind of thing further shows that this is not rogue elements that are out of control, but in fact, part of the strategy of the russian

army, and of putin. and even if there were rogue elements the obligation on putin is to prosecute those individuals. to take them out of the ranks, to start a court martial, do various things, like we did with people who run out of iran for instance. and then the people held above, can't be held responsible under certain -- but he's not doing that. as far as he's concerned, no matter who are gonna believe, me or your lying eyes, it's all fake. all these great journalists, all the satellite imagery from every source in the world, the court that corroborate this picture, is somehow all made up. well, that's absolutely preposterous. no person is intelligent as putin. >> we believe that, seriously,. though >> all the reason to believe that, and he's gonna -- what is army is doing. >> let me ask you really quickly, we're almost out of time. about 45 seconds left. but this week, and certainly your legal expert here between

the two of us, so you would know this. the president of the united states called what is happening in russia, sorry, which russia is doing in ukraine, a genocide. that is also a legal term. where do you come down on that? what is happening in ukraine a genocide? how would you evaluate whether or not is a genocide? >> well, it needs to be evaluated. and i'm not sure now if we have proof, walgreens against humanity. you have to show this intent to destroy a nationality, in whole or in substantial part. but the various aspects, the rhetoric of putin about ukraine that really being a country, the ways in which young people are being deported from these occupied cities, and sent off the polar regions, ways in which there really doesn't seem that there is this designed to eliminate the ukrainian nation, and to do it by their various violent acts. and it could qualify as genocide. in any case, we've gotta have great risk of genocide, and russia as, a party to the

genocide convention, is a block that can be prevented, and is not doing that. >> all right, ambassador stephen rapp, i clearly appreciate your insights this evening. thank you for making time with us. >> we should be with you. >> when we come back, here, in the u.s., the new york city subway shooting highlighted massive failures within the nypd. we're gonna look closely at that. and they have my thoughts on that, and more, next.

that oddly satisfying feeling when you don't do it yourself. >> new yorkers were left in

suspense this week, after a main hunt to catch that brooklyn -- mayor eric adams, he eventually rushed out in front of the cameras to share the news. >> my chair is new yorkers, we got him. we got him. >> all right so, good news aside here, this ordeal cracked open some ugly truths about new york law enforcement. the mayor's first reaction was to quote, doubled down on the patrol strength in the subway system. and that, of course, follows governor andrew cuomo's additional 500 transient to the city subways in 2019. and former mayor, bill de blasio's addition of another 250 just last year. now mayor adams is calling for even more cops on top of that. the nypd already has 36,000

officers. it has an annual budget of nearly 11 billion dollars. that is significantly more than the entire military budget of ukraine, that is currently fighting of the russians. and still, the most bloated police force in america was unable to stop a man from entering the subway, igniting smoke grenades, and using a glock pistol to shoot and injured ten people. subway security cameras well, they were busted. our responding officers radio, well, that wasn't working. he had to ask passengers to call 9-1-1 for him. and the suspect left police a treasure trove of identifying information, and somehow, somehow, still managed to flee all of those new transit cops by subway. and once he was above ground, he actually had time to stop. according to the crime stoppers line, reportedly from the suspect himself, finally tipped police off to his location. and he still managed to get away again.

in the end, the suspect was captured, in part due to sharp new yorkers, including a syrian border security camera technician who has become a bit of a sensation named zach. >> when i see the guy, he was, he has a back, and he was walking on the sidewalk. and i told him, this is the guy! i told the police, and we catch him, thank god! i do my best. >> now, when the mayor said that we got him, i surely hope that he was including zack in that collective we. now, i'm not calling for defunding the police, but it's clear there are better ways there's better ways to spend $11 million design for the city's police. maybe, we don't need more cops we just need better training. and radios that work. and while you are at it, you might want to face those down cameras in the subway. in fact, if the city needs the security camera technician, i actually know a guy. know a guy.