t-a-bowls are back. now starting at $8.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪ ♪ now starting at $8.99. nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people are taking financial advice from memes. [baby spits out milk] i'll get my onesies®. ♪ “baby one more time” by britney spears ♪ e*trade now from morgan stanley. if it's tuesday, russia's brutal new offensive in eastern ukraine has begun. as president zelenskyy bat vows to continue the fight and president biden huddles with u.s. allies. and the president heads to new hampshire as he faces yet a new set of political challenges at home after a federal judge overturned his administration's mask mandate for millions of domestic travelers. and later, how putin's war has prompted the worst global food crisis since world war ii.

and what one of the nation's top humanitarian foundations is attempting to do to fix it. that's ahead. welcome to "meet the press daily." i'm chuck todd. president biden is on his way trying to continue trips to battleground states. today, the important battleground state is new hampshire. he's there to sell the bipartisan infrastructure bill, an official visit, not a political visit, but it's very similar. iowa, north carolina last week, new hampshire this week. but the focus on his struggling domestic agenda comes as he continues to address the brutal war abroad. the russians have regrouped and rearmed, the second wave of attacks has begun, and it appears to be as brutal as many feared it would be. this morning the president held a video call with allies to discuss continued support for

ukraine as russia officially began its new offensive concentrating on the eastern part of the country, all while hammering major cities throughout the country, targeting what russia claims are military assets. russia's stated goal is to achieve the, quote, full liberation of donetsk and luhansk republicans. these are some of the images out of donetsk, where ukrainian officials said russian troops fired and killed at least five civilians. while ukraine may be outgunned, president zelenskyy said they will continue to fight. here's john kirby at yesterday's briefings. >> you can continue to see the russians are doing what we call shaping, trying to set the conditions for more aggressive, more overt and larger ground maneuvers in the donbas. we have seen indications in the last few days that the ukrainians not only have

defended bravely but they have been able to secure certain villages and towns in the donbas. >> as the fight for eastern ukraine intensifies, the fight for mario pole continues as well. it doesn't look great. the last remaining ukrainian troops in the besieged city are still holed up in that steel factory. one ukrainian commander says hundreds of civilians are sheltering in that plant as well. so to get the latest out of ukraine and out of the military strategy here, we've got matt bradley in kyiv, courtney kube at the pentagon, and former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. let me start with matt in kyiv. matt, this russian offensive began with some cruise missile strikes around the country. russia says they were aimed at military targets. were they in places like lviv and outside of kyiv? and were they successful? >> reporter: yeah, i mean, it

seems as though a lot of those military production facilities, it looks as though the russians have been targeting, they were targeted like weigh stations, transportation hubs that would have allowed for personnel, materiel to come in from west into ukraine. this was kind of softening the ground for russia, trying to keep troops, ukrainian troops engaged elsewhere many the country, which is what they've been doing in kharkiv in the northeast and some other places trying to peg down the ukrainian so they wouldn't be able to send reinforcements to the new front line or the old front line but now the new-new sort of front line for this fresh offensive in the eastern part of the country and also to attack some of the facilities that were used to make those neptune cruise missiles. the ukrainian technology that went into those missiles that then san it can "moskva," one of the worst hue mill nations

vladimir putin has faced since february. it looked like it was revenge for the "moskva," for ukrainian strikes into russian territory, that the ukrainians have not really commented on so far. so what we're seeing is shaping operations in the east as we heard from the pentagon. right now it looks as though president zelenskyy says, yes, this major in the ooefls has begun, but if it has, it's started with a whimper and not a bang. >> matt bradley, than you. courtney kube at the pentagon. courtney, whatever we want to say about the russian military strategy before the last 48 hours, it looks like they've tried to learn some lessons from their failures in the past. this feels a little more strategic, doing what they did targeting military facilities. we've been admiring the ukrainian military up until now. are they going to be able to hold up here?

>> reporter: yeah, so this will be a very different fight from the last almost two months here, chuck. so the shaping operations that we've been hearing about is exactly what we are still seeing. but they have been matched now with some ground movement by russian forces. the russians have been slowly trickling in more and more of these battalion tactical groups, two more in the last 24 hours or so, they're moving them into the east. why this is going to be different is it's going to be a much more concentrated fight in that eastern area. so you mentioned the word strategic. we're already seeing what is generally a russian strategy play out with these shaping operations. so we're seeing artillery fire into some of these areas when the russian gound offensive, a large movement of ground troops, seeing artillery fire in there to help shape the battlefield or prep the battlefield before the russians start moving in.

this map, among the areas we're seeing movement is izyum, which is in the south -- excuse me, in the east, and then down further south, southwest of donetsk, some ground movement of russian forces there as well. why this is so critical, again, this is the russians prepping the battlefield for a larger-scale offensive. this offensive is different because we'll see more short-range fires because it's a more compact and condensed area. so artillery fire, probably air strikes we've been seeing, the long-range cruise missiles an things more characteristic of the fight in kyiv, we'll probably see less of that in the coming days. in addition to that, we've talked about in the past, but i can't underscore enough how is russians know this area. they've been fighting there for eight years. they have some logistic support built in in the donbas and the

sea of azov in the black sea. so they'll have more logistical support than other areas. because it will be one large offensive in this area, they most likely will have the potential to be more successful than we've seen. the ukrainians, who you said have been fighting strongly, have been very valiant in other areas, the ukrainian military is also more condensed in this area. we're waiting to see if they disburse more in advance of that. if not, they have the potential to become surrounded by russian forces, a double development, and it could be a brutal, bloody fight for the ukrainian military in addition to the ukrainian civilians who are likely to get caught in the crosshairs. >> are we giving them the right weapons for this fight? there are some weapons we'd like to give they're not trained on, and zelenskyy is saying, hey, look, we'll pick it up fast, don't not send us a weapon

because you think we can't use it. what is that situation? >> reporter: so what they need is artillery so they have the ability to fire back on the russians. the u.s. is providing some of those now and some of the training for it. more than the artillery, the ability to fire it, they need the shells, the ammo. the ukrainian military according to a defense official i spoke with is going through thousands of these shells every single day. so think about that. the u.s. announced last week they were sending 40,000 artillery shells to the ukrainians. if they're going through several thousand a day, theoretically that lasts them a little over a week. that is before this major offensive even starts. that's something the ukrainians will continue to need. it's not going to end that need for ammo and artillery shells. in addition, they need any kind of air defenses they can possibly get to stop the incoming russian fires. the u.s. is providing some of that. there is talk allies are as well, including radar systems, the ability to know stuff is coming in before it does and the ability hopefully to defend e

against it. that's something we're trying to find out more if they're getting some of those defensive capabilities in the coming days, chuck. >> courtney kube at the pentagon for us. courtney, thank you. let me bring in mike mcfaul, our former u.s. ambassador to russia. we heard from sergey lavrov today and he said the new goal is liberating, air quotes, because that's what the russians want to do, the two republics in the east, donetsk and luhansk. do you expect now on may 9th putin to declare that he's got control of these republics and he's liberated them, regardless of the facts on the ground? >> first, chuck, it's really important what lavrov said. if you watch russian tv -- i'm watching it for you so you don't have to watch, chuck -- the language has changed. >> yeah. that's right. >> special military operation in the defense of donbas. they added that phrase, in the

defense of donbas, in recent days. so that means the bigger, larger military objectives of the war, swallowing up all of ukraine because ukrainians aren't real, just russians with an accent, that's off the table. de-nazi-fication, that's off the table. seizing the major cities, that's off the table. the russians lost the battle of kyiv so now they're shifting to the last possible thing they can do, liberation of donbas. remember for eight years they've had separatists that they've been supporting in parts of these two regions already, so this is a really small objective compared to where they were 55 days ago. but yes, it's all focused here, all in now, and they will do what they can to try to achieve that objective by may 9th. that i think is the new objective. i'm not going to pretend to predict that will how it will

go. i would encourage people to stop knowing how the ukrainians will fight. a lot of people were very wrong 55 days ago. let's see how they fight in the next battle for donbas. >> i understand what you're saying there. do you think the ukrainians have enough to win this fight? and what's the consequences of ukrainians losing this battle for the donetsk region? >> when i talk to ukrainian government officials of course they think they can win and prevail and maybe fight to a stalemate, which they don't want to say publicly. they have taken a lot of casualties. they've lost a lot of equipment. they don't have the shells as courtney said. and they want more weapons, right? so when the biden administration says we're sending 18 howitzers, they say, well, isn't that great, and the ukrainians say we want 80, not 18. they just want more. it's difference between the

ukrainian demaends and what we can supply and we're willing to supply. but they need more weapons, they believe, to fight the russians to a stand still in donbas. >> mike, is there a point here -- again, let me go back to the first par of that last question, which is, is it a strategic failure for the west if russia is able to lay claim to any piece of the donetsk region? >> i didn't answer your question, chuck, because it's a really hard one. i first want to keep underscor victories, because we tend to run to the next new thing. we need to remember the fantastic victories already. that's achievement for zelenskyy, his war warriors, and an i achievement for the u.s. secondly, this is the real

dilemma. if you remember weeks ago, zelenskyy hinted he would agree to disagree with putin about where the borders were but then he would agree to not use military force to change them. but that's when he was talking about crimea and the russian-held territories, parents of donbas. if putin takes mariupol and takes this bridge, that makes it harder for zelenskyy to negotiate. >> and, mike, i guess the thing that i don't understand why we're not thinking about, well, maybe we will, why we shouldn't fight this harder, if putin is able to pull this off just in the east, doesn't he basically choke off ukraine from energy? >> and exporting agriculture. i mean, if he has that whole -- you know, mariupol, that whole place, that has giant negative financial implications for ukraine and for the global

economy, by the way. it's both. so my own view is, yes, we have to be all in. more weapons, more sanctions. if putin loses, that is great for ukraine, our allies in europe will be reassured, and our friends and allies in asia and the middle east will also be reassured. if he wins, it's the exact opposite. we'll be spending billions and billions of dollars reassuring our nato allies in europe and our partners and allies in the middle east will be nervous, so i think the stakes are high for american national security interests right now. >> this interview is helping me understand why i could not get jake sullivan or ron klain in the last ten days to say definitively that ukraine has to win this war, that our policy is for them to win this war. they specifically will not commit to that. and you seem to be explaining why. fair? >> well, i would say two things.

putin has already lost this war. i want to say that and i want to say it loudly. because how you frame who wins and loses, you know, he didn't capture kyiv, he didn't kill zelenskyy, he didn't do a regime change, he didn't take kharkiv. so he's already lost the big battle. he's lost the war. now he's fighting to win one battle so that he can pursue peace, and there's probably why the american government officials don't want to talk about it. the big frame i think is unequivocal. ukrainians have won the war even if we don't know the outcome to the battle of donbas. >> well, i think you're right. they fought for the independence of their country. now the question is can they fight for all their borders. >> right. >> ambassador mcfaul, really appreciate your expertise and experience. >> certainly. coming up, a delegation of top house democrats, return from eastern europe meeting with ukraine refugees, a bipartisan

congressional delegation, they met with refugees, american ally, and u.s. officials. we'll speak with a democrat that was there about what they saw, what they learned next. and new political problems for president biden at home. as airlines say bye-bye to his administration's mask mandate. you're watching "meet the press daily." ♪♪ ♪♪ why don't you do cool spins? uh, people need to read it. i can't read it. [ chuckles ] that's 'cause you're like 4. 4 1/2. switch to progressive, and you can save hundreds. you know, like the sign says. maybe it's another refill at your favorite diner... or waiting for the 7:12 bus... or sunday afternoon in the produce aisle. these moments may not seem remarkable.

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welcome back. despite the continued violence, president zelenskyy has repeated his call for president biden to visit kyiv himself to witness the devastation first hand. no word from the white house on its plans with congress still in recess this week. some lawmakers are heading overseas to see the crisis spawned by this war first hand. joining me is one of those members of congress, jimmy panetta. he spent last week overseas with a bipartisan delegation visiting nato countries including poland and symbolically crossed the

border into ukraine. always good to have a member of the panetta family on the show. >> thanks, chuck. good to be here. >> let me start with what you saw and the importance of seeing and hearing stories versus watching them on tv. tell me the stories you heard of russian aggression from ukrainian refugees that you spoke with. >> yeah. that was obviously the most heartfelt part of the trip, was going to the border, crossing into ukraine, but then also going to the refugee centers just off the border in poland and hearing from the refugees the trauma, the atrocities, and every other horror that people are seeing on that they are witnessing in person and what's driving them out of their homes into the -- and i have to say the welcoming arms of poland. you don't understand what poland has taken on, and they really

are a linchpin when it comes to accepting these refugees, but more importantly, integrating them into their society. it was funny, when i got back, a lot of people asked, did you go to refugee camps, did you go to the tents, did you see tents? none of that. there's no tents. there's no refugee camps. there's refugee centers, temporary centers, but these poles have gone over and taken them into their homes and basically are doing a huge first step in trying to integrate them into their society, which i think is very commendable. refugee coming in and also armaments going out all through poland into ukraine. so definitely as i say, poland is the linchpin when it comes to this ukrainian war that we're dealing with. >> hearing the stories, seeing some of this stuff more first hand, has your views on what nato and the united states should be doing here at all changed? >> no. it's always been the same.

we need to do more and we need to continue to do more. that was the purpose of our trip, to let our nato partners know that we are democrats and republicans on that bipartisan trip in support of the efforts to support the ukrainian people, to bleed the russian government of its resources to wage this unjustified and unprovoked war, and to reassure our nato allies that we stand with them in this effort. and i do believe that it was that message that when we left each of our meetings, it was clear by the statements that were made by the government officials in poland, in denmark, in germany, they couldn't tell who was republican or who was democrat in those meetings. they just knew we were americans standing firm with our ukrainian partners, our nato partners to make sure that we continue to deliver punches to vladimir putin. >> tell me about the meeting with germany and whether you get the sense that they are, you

know -- how willing are they to essentially punish themselves short term to get the outcome that the western world is looking for? >> yeah. a good question, chuck. look, i think it goes back to the february 27th speech by chancellor stoltz where he basically admitted their energy dependence on russia. but at the same time, he took some crucial steps to become what they call him, the crisis chancellor now in germany, to basically show their support for the ukrainians and that they're upping their 2% of the gdp to their military spending, making germany the number three country in the world on spending on their military. they also then made that change providing armaments to ukraine, a policy they basically went against, a tradition they didn't do and now they're doing that. three, the admission that 50% of their natural gas comes from

russia. so it would be very difficult to cut that off right away. they're still going to close their nuclear plants by the end of this year. they're still going to have to -- it will take a long time to wean themselves off of fossil fuels from russia, but at the same time they're developing lng terminals and storage facilities for natural gas so that they can import them from other countries. there was an admission there, but there are also steps being taken by the german government, especially by chancellor stoltz, to basically say we have to do more, they're doing more, and it feels good to meet with the chancellor and to basically talk with him about this and acknowledge more steps we have to take together. >> if the russians end up essentially being able to say they have liberated or taken away from ukraine the donbas region completely, and even

though ukraine's sovereignty would be mostly protected, can we really sit here and say this was a success by the west if russia takes this bite out of ukraine again? >> these are the questions that are being raised right now. obviously, you have this full frontal assault in the eastern region by the russian military that we're witnessing over these last few hours, this bruteish attack on mariupol and basically trying to create that arc of occupation in that eastern region. that combined with the many atrocities that are being committed by the russian military at the behest of vladimir putin, the key thing is what we all have to deal with, how are we going to trust them going forward? what is basically the strategy right now in dealing with some sort of confession by russia, by vladimir putin saying, okay,

we're done now, we have the eastern region, we don't want any more? are you kidding me? there's going to be basically a lack of trust there that i think is going to be pervasive in any sort of future dealings with russia at this point. and so i do not think we could declare it a win. i do believe that's why now we need to continue to stop and supply armaments to the ukrainian military, to the ukrainians so they can wage the defense of their country and their freedoms going forward. >> congressman, it feels like a policy we're trying to arm ukraine to make sure they have a stalemate. you probably heard my last question to mike mcfaul. neither jake sullivan nor ron klain will say our strategy is for ukraine to win this war, period. >> it's interesting. and i don't normally reveal this, but since you started off the conversation with this, the

first question my father asked me when i got home was, well, what's the strategy? and that was something that really didn't necessarily come up, to be honest with you, in our discussions. and based on probably the reasons why what you're saying. but, look, i think despite that, i do believe there needs to be more done for a counteroffensive by the ukrainians at this point to continue to punch vladimir putin and the russian military in the face. as difficult as it may be, the fact is that, you know, russians have surrounded mariupol. they've seized it but they haven't controlled it. it's been 50-plus days for them to do that, just one town, and therefore demonstrate the thing that vladimir putin underestimated and that's the will of the ukrainian people and therefore we need to do everything we can to fulfill that and the fight for the ukrainian people so they get to a position they have their

freedom throughout ukraine. >> congressman pa net, that i think that's what we're all trying to figure out. does the west have the same will as the ukrainians are showing. good to talk with you. >> thanks, chuck. up next, president biden tries to turn his focus to his unfinished domestic agenda after a federal judge strikes down his administration's mask mandate for travelers. the administration doesn't appear to be appealing. n the ai, which to his bladder, feels like a mile. yet he stands strong, dry, keeping the leaks only to his eyes. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. before nexium 24hr, anna could only imagine a comfortable night's sleep without frequent heartburn waking her up. now, that dream... . ...is her reality. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts, for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it...

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welcome back. if you got on a plane or a train or any form of public transportation today, you probably noticed a pretty big change. yesterday afternoon the trump-appointed federal judge in florida struck down the mask mandate for travelers days after the centers for disease control extended it through early may. white house press secretary jen psaki called the ruling disappointing, but the white house has not yet appealed the ruling. they claim it's something for the department of justice to look into. already the tsa, major airline air years, amtrak, uber, lyft, all others have dropped mask requirements essentially the second the white house decided not to appeal. it's one thing for a trump judge to strike down an order from the biden white house and a different thing to let the white house let it happen without any legal pushback. it's not first time they don't fight back, don't defend their rationale. they just give you the emoji

shrug. we saw it when west virginia's joe manchin scrapped the entire president's domestic agenda in congress. we may see it with title 42. the biden administration, with the full power and prestige of the presidency, his party's power on the line this november, has repeatedly looked as if they're easy to roll. the president is on the way to new hampshire to talk about the issue of soaring inflation. mike memoli is on the ground in new hampshire ahead of president biden's arrival. mike, there's all sorts of conspiracy theories behind this mask mandate decision. one is they fully expected this judicial decision and basically welcomed it and decided they're washing their hands of it, which also seems to be an odd decision if that was it because why wouldn't they want credit for being able to tell people to take their masks off on

airplanes? what is going on here? >> reporter: interesting you had the white house box themselves in with a two-week hiatus and a decision whether to permanently lift the masking requirement. it's complicating the white house's response at this moment. but it also is a very interesting snapshot of the last two administrations side by side at the moment because jen psaki, the white house press secretary, was justbriefing reporters on air force one and this is a white house saying they'll leave these decisions in the hands of the scientists, the experts, the cdc. asked about whether the doj would with appeal, the white house says they do not interfere in the decisions of the justice department. contrast that with a judge's ruling yesterday, a trump-appointed judge, somebody who had been rated as not qualified by the american bar

association, and you have, you know, an open question about the administration coloring too much within the lines and who is really on the winning side here. but this is an administration that obviously is trying to figure out their next steps here, and in the meantime, the president is trying to get democrats back on their front foot. we're seeing the president this week do something he hasn't done yet as president, three different stops across the country, talking about his domestic agenda, focusing on things they have done, chuck, not things that are left undone. it was interesting as we're also seeing the vice president doing some fund-raising, some of the comments she was making last night, throughout her remarks speaking to democratic donors using the word optimism for their message, but have to answer why should i vote this year and dealing with the base pressure as well. >> that's for sure. basically, nobody's happy inside the democratic tent that might have been too big to occupy both

john kasich, joe manchin, and bernie sanders. up next, after being unmasked and undercut, the white house tries to untangle itself from a web of political challenges. a conversation about that after this break. ♪ ♪ aleve x. its revolutionary rollerball design delivers fast, powerful, long-lasting pain relief. aleve it, and see what's possible. get help managing your money for the life -- and years -- ahead. with fidelity income planning, we'll look at what you've saved, what you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when you're not working. a plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. along the way, we'll give you ways to be tax efficient. and you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time without the unnecessary fees. we'll help you go from saving... to living. ♪ play all day ♪

president biden has just landed in new hampshire on his way to a domestic policy event. you're yet to hear him land on the court decision that overturned the mask mandate. joining me from the white house, trymaine lee, and "new york times" correspondent peter baker. carol, this entire sort of process here, this isn't the first time where the white house loses a high-profile x and they just sort of throw up their hands, especially if it's politically unpopular or the decision is more popular than

them bushing back would be, and they just sort of sneak away. is that what we're going to see with the federal transportation mandate? are they going to pull the rug out from the cdc like this? >> reporter: that's what we've seen so far, chuck. if they were going to try to reverse this and issue a stay, the belief is they would have done that already, that at this point, while there's still room for them to potentially appeal this decision, that the window for issuing a stay has basically closed, it would cause a lot of chaos and confusion, and that's the last thing that the white house wants to do in terms of creating more of that. and you can see here where they're trying to walk this line. there are democrats i've spoke on the who said, look, the president looks weak here, he could have come out and owned this moment, this transition in the country, where people are taking off their masks on transportation. he didn't do that. instead, he's being led by the courts. the other side of that is other

democrats say, well, if he did come out knowing that, there's polling that showing democrats like these mask mandates, some of them do, and they're more inclined to mask up, so he risks offending those in his own party. what you're seeing is this sort of allowing the courts to make this decision even though you heard the white house press secretary jen psaki say moments ago that public health decision should not be made by the courts. what the concern is that some democrats have is that this just looks like a lack of leadership on really critical issues. >> right. very quickly, carol, have you heard back from the cdc? do they feel as if they're not getting the support from the administration and they're the scapegoats? >> reporter: the cdc has been, you know, the source of a scapegoat and a source of frustration for this white house for some time.

there is this -- officials i talked to this morning, they want to back the cdc here, but there's a bit of eye rolling about the fact this was extended a little bit and, you know, could they maybe have not done that, could we at least have got on the point of another week out where the president could have had a little more control of this situation. so there's some frustrations. it's not clear that's exactly targeted toward the cdc at this time. >> peter, this is not the first time, and, you know, as we laid out in "first read" this morning, there's a pattern here. joe biden can get rolled. that's what it looks like here in washington. whether you're a corporation, whether you're a democratic member of congress, republican member, this is an administration that, you know, push back hard enough, they don't push back at you. it's almost overcorrecting of the trump years. >> yeah. that's right. the trump years we learned that trump never gave up on a lot of

things or gave that impression, although he did sometimes quietly. when he had his travel ban struck down by court, he kept coming back until he finally found a version the supreme court would allow him to go forward with. you're seeing the opposite here, in effect, for joe biden. that's a progress with this base that wants him to be a fighter axe liberal trump, not this the way of violating norms and standards like trump, but in the sense of being a fighter or a real scrapper out there for their ideals and their policy. that's not president biden's modus operandi, as we've seen. i think carol gets it right. the ambivalence about this policy to begin with, they don't want to look like they're undercutting the public health, because that's what they accused president trump of doing, but thaw ear more happy to have this mask issue go away as a matter of politics because they've been beaten up so much about it. the problem is if this policy leads to furthering the next

wave of the virus so that, you know, in the months to come we see a worse result rather than a better result, that will impact badly both on the country and on the administration. >> that's what this looks like, carol, is it looks like they want to have it both ways, that if there's another surge in the virus, they could say we tried and, you know, hey, the courts wouldn't let us so that they don't have any ownership of it. frankly, it's the exact way they've managed immigration policy, right? they seem to be ambivalent on whether some of these things should be kept in place or not, and they're perfectly willing to let the courts, oh, remain in mexico? okay. that's again i think an example of a policy they wanted in place but didn't want to get their hands dirty. >> reporter: yeah. there is this sense that there's a hesitancy to step directly into the fray, as peter was just saying, that if they come down on one side or the other,

then -- and they make a decisive decision if the president does, that then you have to own it. and there's a reluctance in some instances to do that because they don't necessarily know what's coming around the corner. if you just take the mask mandate issue -- i spoke with an official this morning who said, like, well, if he did come out, even if the cdc deadline expired, they didn't further extend that, it's not like the president was necessarily going to come out and do some big celebration of that because then what if there's another surge, then he owns that. so again, and the concern from even some democrats is it doesn't look like he's leading. >> and then of course, peter, this gets contagious. look how quickly so many set of democrats are, you know, looking for different ways to -- and maybe that's what they feared the mask mandate would do, if they defended it, you would have had a whole slew of democrats

say no, we're for that ruling. >> i think that's right. there was a senate vote not long ago where a few democrats joined with republicans voting against a vaccine mandate, basically. the politics of this, you know, are complicated in that sense. it's remarkable, of course, we're at this point where something like a mask is political, but it is. it's a wedge issue and something that has been, you know, hard for this administration to find its proper footing. i think you're right. the question broadly speaking is do you want to look like you're somebody who can be rolled? do you want to look like you are in command of the dynamics or going with the flow? and not challenging this ruling may increase that perception they're whipsawed by events rather than being in command of them. >> it's tough to command any event, but you have to sometimes look like you're in command of it at times. carol and peter, thank you both. still ahead, how the war in ukraine is causing a crisis

around the world and is there anything that can be done about it as millions of people don't have enough to eat? i don't think we fully appreciate how important russia and ukraine are to fielding the world, particularly in the middle east. you're watching "meet the press daily." ♪simply irresistible♪ ♪ ♪ ♪simply irresistible♪ applebee's irresist-a-bowls are back. now starting at $8.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.

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my doctor said for my copd, it was time for breztri. breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. like no other copd medicine, breztri was proven to reduce flare-ups by 52%. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. if you have copd, ask your doctor about breztri. welcome back. up until about two months ago when the war broke out ukraine was one of the world's largest global suppliers of crops like wheat and corn. ukrainian exports are nearly

entirely on hold right now for obvious reasons. and while farmers aren't giving up, the foreign manipulates try tweeted these pictures of ukrainians planting the spring crops in bulletproof vests. there's still no guarantee those crops will ever be harvested or if there's any way to export them out of the country. the war is contributing in part to the prices in grocery store, devastating for those who rely on cheap grains to survive. the president at the rockefeller foundation, former usaid director during the obama years. america, we don't have a food shortage, yes, the price of bread may go up, but we don't have a shortage. a country like egypt that relies heavily on exports from russia and ukraine, how dire is the situation in some of these places? >> well, thank you, chuck, for having me. it's extremely dire. 2022 is likely to be the worst

for global hunger and starvation perspective, more so than any year since world war ii. the reality is if you are in egypt you're facing food import price bills, fuel cost that is are similarly up that much or more and paying out debt with high interest rates going up because of inflation all around the world. and you're doing that precisely when you're going to have a hotter and drier year by most meteorological estimates. so the reality is northern africa, the horn of africa, west africa, parts of latin america, parts of southeast asia will all face lower food production years at a time when food prices are sky high and only going up and it will lead to a tremendous shortage of food for vulnerable families in particular. >> so what can be done? what's the stopgap? i know what the long-term solutions need to be, but this is about now.

what can be done right now? >> well this is about now and, by the way, those photos of heroic farmers in ukraine with the planting is part of the solution but not the whole solution. the truth is american humanitarian and food assistance has been extremely effective over many decades and we know how to pre-position stocks of food. the resources to reach the people facing acute hunger and starvation. they need to be fed. and then in the medium term in the course of this year, the poor -- the lower income countries that are facing the biggest crisis in food are also the ones paying out more than $300 billion in interest payments and debt repayments. there ought to be debt relief for those countries to keep their economies and people

protected. the last time we saw a crisis like this 2008, 2009, 2007, there were 48 episodes of instability, political violence and the global food crisis. we have to avoid that this time by getting ahead of it with good humanitarian assistance and then investing in long-term agriculture. >> so give me an example of the most acute situation in this moment. >> i think right now the countries in egypt, algeria, afghanistan, in the horn of africa are big food importers. one story a colleague of mine doing work in agriculture in ethiopia pointed out people are talking about wheat. the reality is fertilizer prices have gone up 200%, 300% and as a result farmers are in the streets protesting.

the results we will see will be six, seven months from now when yields are much lower than they would be and that will only compound what is already known to be the, quote, unquote, hungry season where families just barely get by. that could lead to the kind of mass hunger we saw several decades ago in ethiopia and other countries in the region. we have to get ahead of it now. it's food, fertilizer, access to those items and a lack of aid and assistance as well. >> is there any grain -- can rice replace the wheat and corn issue in north africa at all? is there any alternative food? supply. >> there are alternatives. it's not just wheat. it's wheat, sunflower oil, as i mentioned, fertilizer which is what farmers in that region use to grow their own corn and other crops that they rely on.

and so the huge increase in prices is pretty broadly based across all of those commodities. >> rajiv shah, among the groups that's point on this topic in particular, former head of aid, really good to talk with you and get your perspective on this and thank you all for being with us this hour. by the way, you can help out the foundation, please do. this food issue is going to be worse and it creates more political instability and hurts a lot more people. we will be back tomorrow. msnbc's coverage will continue after this break. will continue after this break it's neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-week, deep wrinkles in 4. so you can kiss wrinkles goodbye! neutrogena®

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. to mask or not to mask? there are a lot of questions about the end of the transportation mask mandate, and for the next 12 minutes or so, we're going to try to answer

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