climate. we all have to care about cli ma. i'm zerlina. be sure to follow us on facebook, twitter, tiktok and youtube. more news is coming up right here on msnbc. and a good saturday morning to you. i'm katie phang. this news cycle it's been a whil whirlwind including last night's january 6th mark meadows case. several top republicans including jim jordan, matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene were present at the white house december 21st to strategize ways to overturn the 2020 election including pushing then vice president mike pence to reject on january 6th the legal slate of electors.

hutchinson also testifying that meadows knew in advance that violence was a possibility on january 6th but trump went ahead with "urging rally attendees to march to the capitol and take back your country." thanks to the disclosure of the kevin mccarthy tapes we have a clear look how the republicans lost the opportunity to push former president trump out of politics after january 6th but were weak and did not seize on that opportunity. incredibly amidst all of these new revelations, trump reportedly thinks he looks stronger. marlene sotomayor said trump reveled on his grip over the gop. alexander burns and jonathan martin of the "new york times" released the tapes as part of their reporting for their new book "this will not pass." in these recordings mccarthy planned to tell trump that he should resign, that of course never happened and just weeks after the violent insurrection, mccarthy made a special trip to

marla goe to capitalize on a photo-op with donald trump and he's back pedaling and claiming things are fine. you know, keep moving people, nothing to see here, right? here's mccarthy yesterday talking about his phone call with the former president. >> my conversation is very good because the conversation here is what they said we did, we never did. i never asked president trump to resign. we both talked about that. we've talked about -- >> reporter: did you speak with him about resigning? >> let me be very clear. i have never asked the president to resign. >> there is a lot to keep up with in this story so here's allie raffa on capitol hill. >> reporter: you can clearly hear kevin mccarthy saying he would urge president trump to resign after the events on january 6th. he also says that trump admitted

some responsibility for the attack on the capitol in conversations with mccarthy as well as mccarthy expressing just how frankly he says done with trump he is after january 6th but as you said, he is flat-out denying all of this and we know since this audio has been released, the former president and mccarthy have spoken at least three separate times and this is a scenario where you think the former president would be upset by something like this. this is obviously a confidant of former president trump, a friend and companion of his, but "the washington post" is reporting that trump is somewhat reveling in this moment, just the fact that he knows he is still the undisputed leader of the republican party, that he is still moving the pieces on this chess board, and when this news first broke of these audio recordinged, there were fears that mccarthy's quest to be the next speaker of the house would be over but right now it's not really looking like that is going to be the case. the former president was interviewed by the "wall street journal" late yesterday about

this, and he said that mccarthy and other house republicans who were upset with him after january 6th "realized they were wrong and supported me." trump adding this about mccarthy's chances of becoming speaker of the house saying "i don't know of anyone else that is running and i think that i've actually had a very good relationship with him. i like him, and other than that brief period of time, i suspect he likes me quite a bit." but the big question now, katie, is can mccarthy stay in trump and republicans' good graces for enough time to win the speaker of the house position if republicans are to take back the majority in the house in the midterm elections and whether there could be more audio recordings that have not been released that could potentially spell out some further trouble for mccarthy. >> thanks to allie raffa on capitol hill. coming up, i want to dig into what the mccarthy tapes could mean for president trump

legally and politically. i'll ask michael steele and msnbc analyst cynthia oxney. we turn to my home state of florida where governor desantis signed aggressive and controversial bills into law, two measures target disney in retaliation over its criticism of his so-called don't say gay bill. for more we're joined by stephanie stanton. stephanie, thanks so much for being with us. what does it mean to have disney's special tax status revoked? because it seems pretty unprecedented to have this kind of retaliation. >> reporter: yes, indeed, good morning to you, katie. based upon all of our reporting, it appears that the taxpayers here in orange county and nearby osceola county could be the real losers in all of this in the form of higher taxes. as you said, the governor yesterday signed into law that bill that essentially dissolved

the ready creek improvement district, the district set up some 55 years ago that gave disney the right to self-govern, to cover its own services, water, electricity, things that it wanted to build infrastructure, it did not have to seek any kind of regulatory approval from the county. we spoke to the orange county tax collector here who told us that district, the ready creek improvement district brought in about $105 million in annual revenue. at this point, it's still unclear how all of this will shake out because it doesn't go into effect until june of 2023, but it appears that, according to at least several people that we talked to, that the local taxpayers will have to bear the brunt of paying for some of those services, should they come out of the ready break district and we're told that could mean a tax increase of up to 20% on the tax bills so there's still a lot to be sorted out as to how this

will all unfold but as you said, opponents of the governor say this is nothing more than political retribution, many people believe that lawyers will soon be coming into play and katie, we have not yet heard a response from disney to all of this, so we are still awaiting that. >> ron desantis has been quite the busy bee. it hasn't just been this disney bill. he signed other bills including florida's new congressional map that he himself proposed. tell us a little bit about what's going on with that. >> reporter: yes, these new redistricting maps are also approved, signed into law by governor ron desantis. they were initially passed by the legislature on thursday as part of a special session and there was a lot of activity during that special session. we heard people shouting when the the show was coming up, we saw a group of democratic lawmakers who basically did a sit-in, in protest to all of this. it is our understanding at this

point that the new maps will create 20 seats that favor republicans and eight seats for democrats that will give republicans about 70% of control here in the state of florida, katie. >> thanks to you, stephanie stanton live in front of disney world. that is the latest. i want to know will governor desantis' power grab ever stop? who or what might he target next and how concerned should we be about florida's new congressional map that appears to significantly diminish the power of black voters? coming up i'll ask this to florida state senator chevron jones. turning now to ukraine, new comments from a senior russian general will plans to take control of areas beyond the donbas region. nbc's raf sanchez is on the ground in lviv with more. raf? >> reporter: russia has long said the goal of the so-called second phase of its invasion of ukraine is the capture of the

donbas region in the east. a senior russian general going further saying russia is looking to take the entire southern coast of ukraine. he says the goal here is to create a land bridge between crimea, which russia annexed back in 2014 and transniestria, a small break-away republic in moldova, russian speaking. it is not clear if russia actually has the troops to take the entire southern coast of ukraine. it's not clear if this is official russian policy but ukrainian officials from president zelenskyy on down are reacting very strongly to these comments by this russian general. they're saying two things. one, it gives the lie to russia's original claims that this war is about de-naziification of ukraine, protecting russian speakers in the east. this is proof russian is

interested in expansion through conquest. this is fascism imperialism. president zelenskyy said this is a sign russia will spread further into countries like moldova and potentially on into nato nations. meanwhile, in mariupol, those ukrainian fighters continuing to hold out in what remains of the steel plant a week after russia initially demanded they surrender. on the edges of the city, ukraine officials are finding a second mass grave, the first one two days ago in a town to the west, they are saying this grim pattern is a sign of russia trying to conceal evidence of war crimes and this may be just a small taste of the horrors we have yet to see committed by russian forces in mariupol. >> thank you to raf sanchez for that report in ukraine. coming up, all in the

family? another trump relative is set to meet with the january 6th committee in the coming days. this time it's don jr. his appearance is voluntary so what are his motivations here and what might he say about those text messages he sent to mark meadows just days after his dad's big loss? and later in the hour, punishing athletes for the sins of their leader? or a good way to send a message to putin? head over to twitter to take today's poll and let me know if you think the decision to ban russian tennis players from wimbledon is justified. former tennis pro and nbc sports analyst mary carillo will join me to break this down in a bit. before we head to break, here's dara brown with some of the top headlines you may have missed. police say a man opened fire from his apartment window injuring four people in a sniper-style shooting in washington, d.c. one of the victims is a 12-year-old girl. they are all expected to be

okay. officials believe the suspect killed himself when police were entering his home opinion inside they found a tripod pointing at the street with several rounds of ammunition and six guns. still no word on a motive. the french presidential election is one day away and the world is watching, incumbent president emmanuel macron is facing off against marine le penn. and strong winds are fueling ongoing fires in the southwestern u.s. the flames have burned dozens of homes in arizona and put new mexico communities in danger. more than 1,600 firefighters are fighting nine fires across the two states. more with katie phang after the commercial. your doctor gives you a prescription. “let's get you on some antibiotics right away.” we could bring it right to your door. with 1 to 2 day delivery from your local cvs.

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kevin mccarthy. "new york times" reporters alexander burns and jonathan martin shared more of mccarthy's january 10th call with house leadership talking about former president trump and what happened on january 6th. >> let me be very clear to all of you and i have been very clear to the president, he bears responsibilities for his words and actions. no ifs, ands or buts. i asked him personally today does he hold responsibility for what happened? does he feel bad about what happened? he told me he does have some responsibility for what happened and he'd need to acknowledge that. >> in an interview with the "wall street journal," trump denied taking any responsibility for what happened at the capitol on january 6th and the top of the show we talked about what the tapes mean for kevin mccarthy. what about donald trump and what happens now that the 1/6 committee filed its latest motion in court directed at mark

meadows and implicating some others? let's bring in my panel, michael steele, former chairman of the rnr and msnbc political analyst and cynthia, a former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. cynthia, i want to start with you. first i want to play comments from the january 6th committee member adam schiff talking to cbs news about mccarthy saying trump accepted some responsibility for the attack. listen to this. >> why is that revelation important to your committee? >> i think it is very important that kevin mccarthy has evidence the former president acknowledged bearing some responsibility for that attack on the capitol. this is an admission of guilt by the former president. >> and in that overnight court filing from the january 6th committee, the house's general counsel said "despite this and other warnings, president trump urged at tendees at the january 6th rally to march to the

capitol to take back your country." that sounds like an admission of guilt, in my opinion, by donald trump. am i wrong? >> no, i mean you're right but the problem is where is it admitted, what court of law? because admissions are only, i mean it's going to be worth something for history. it's worth something for the politics, but from a legal point of view it's only worth something if there's a lawsuit, if there's a case, if there's a criminal indictment, and that doesn't look likely to me. assuming the president was indicted and mccarthy was a co-defendant, you could get those stalts in, but that doesn't look likely to me. so i think it's more of a political story. >> even though the doj brought in a new prosecutor to look into possible criminal conduct that was committed outside of just what happened on the date of january 6th -- >> i completely agree. i want them to do it. my sources tell me there's

reluctance by the attorney general, even though the line prosecutors are pushing it. they've got 131 new prosecutors, they have this other new prosecutor looking at the trump issue, the guy from baltimore. there are signs that they are doing something but let's not kid ourselves. it's been a long time. we don't have any of the fake electors in the grand jury. they should be there. we don't have any of the other people in the grand jury, and the doj has not taken over this investigation like a normal prosecutor would do, so as much as i want it to happen and as much as i look in the tea leaves and see little signals that maybe they're starting to do something, i think we also need to be honest with our viewers, there is a reluctance by the attorney general as far as i can tell to get in the hornet's nest of the politic of a full-blown investigation, that directly and is squarely looking at the

president, and i think you know, it's a mistake, sort of like during the moment, ooh, something is coming. nothing came. it's a mistake to promise people look, the attorney general's hired a guy from baltimore, it's seconds away, we're going to see something. that's not what's happening. it is very slow and this is a very difficult prosecution of the president because he's very slippery and very good at it and he doesn't write anything down and he's rarely recorded, so i think it's a very difficult prosecution. what i see is some people at the bottom of that mountain putting on their shoes but nobody's climbing up the mountain just yet. >> somebody who is not hesitating about diving into the politics would be michael steele, so michael, let's talk about the politics of this, that's what cynthia was just mentioning. it's not just what mccarthy waffled on he thought trump was going to do. he talked about pence pardoning trump, michael. we know you don't talk pardons unless you did something criminally wrong. what does it mean that a top

republican like kevin mccarthy had a moment seemed to be clarity about trump and folded like a cheap suit? >> says to me one of two things, either he was lying to us about that clarity or he's lying now. i think in kevin's case it's all a lie. this is how kevin is interested in one thing, preserving kevin's position politically to become the next speaker of the house. that's the only thing that matters, and so in that moment of clarity in early january, where he's talking to his caucus, he was essentially playing one end against the other. i don't know. i doubt that he even said anything to donald trump. the reason being that he would fold like a cheap suit in front of donald trump. this is not a man who is going to stand up to donald trump and tell him sir, you must resign. sir, you must take responsibility. i believe donald trump when donald trump said kevin mccarthy

never said that to me. kevin's been lying to everybody, because kevin's about positioning kevin, and so you know, in many respects, he sort of took on the trumpian attributes' describes to ted cruz and marco rubio, where he's now lying little kevin and the reality for us politically is this is the man that the country's about to make the next speaker of the house. so if he won't stand up to trump, and he will lie to his caucus, where do you think we fit into all of this? i think cynthia's exactly right, that frustration on the judicial side, on the jurisprudence and the process of the law is equally frustrating on the political side, and so we're going to watch at the end of this, this committee goes away, come january of next year, when kevin mccarthy gavels in the new congress and they start prosecutions of democrats and

biden and hunter and all of that because that's the end game here. that's the inside promise, because there's a lot of griff to be made and a lot of voters to secure through that political effort. >> michael, very quickly, i only have about 30 seconds before we go to break. i did want to ask you, if this ends up being the ultimate jury of the american public, not in a criminal sense but in a critical sense, what are those open public hearings we're supposed to have in june look like? raskin says it's going to blow the roof off when they do this presentation. >> i go back to what cynthia said about you know, we've been here before. don't promise me something's going to blow the roof off. just blow the roof off and let us come to that conclusion like oh my god, that was amazing. the reality of it is you're setting up this hearing to produce something it may not produce for a number of reasons politically but then again on the back end, what does the justice department do with all of that? i think the american people

could be very frustrated by august or september with this process if they are not carefully crafting exactly how they're going to come to the country with this evidence. >> cynthia, my team's been very kind, gave me a little bit more time. i want to ask you major new developments overnight involving former trump chief of staff mark meadows and lawsuit against the 1/6 committee to prevent him from turning over documents. they filed a motion for sul summary judgment asking the court to reject meadows' legal challenges to their authority. trump went ahead with the rally and meadows was told the plan was having alternate electors which you mentioned, but he was told it wasn't legally sound but they went ahead with it anyway. >> right. >> what are the major takeaways from the motion that is in court? >> the summary will be granted

and the justice department will have to make decisions. he was referred for prosecution in december and still nothing. now there's an argument, if you're going to prosecute over something else, maybe you wait. if you are going to do that, get moving. that's all i can say. get moving. i'm tired of waiting and i think the american people are tired of waiting. it's time for some results. not only have the electors not been done but in the summary judgment there's a lot of new information, it's on the web, everybody should read it, even though it's very long. there's a lot of information about the overturn, trying to kick out the attorney general and use fake voting machines and everybody was going to resign. there's a lot of information in there. a lot was going on. it's time to move from the january 6th committee, which i adore, and support to the department of justice down the street. the time has come to climb the mountain. >> and the time has come for me to go to a break. my panelists are going to stick around. when we come back, we'll be

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the group says she violated her constitutional oath for encouraing the attack on the capitol and supporting the rioters, they point to incendiary comments like these. >> and this is an important time in our history. we can't allow this just to, just to be gone, you know, just to let it go. you can't allow it to just transfer power "peacefully" like joe biden wants and allow him to become our president because he did not win this election. it's being stolen and the evidence is there. i'll echo the words of many of my colleagues as we were just meeting together in our gop conference meeting this morning. this is our 1776 moment. >> from where i'm standing she sounds firm in her convictions. when greene took the stand she couldn't remember much of what see said or did surrounding at tack saying "i don't recall" or "i don't remember" dozens upon dozens of times.

in one cringe-worthy exchange greene tried to lie before realizing the plaintiff's lawyer was about to bust out the receipts. >> in fact you think that speaker pelosi is a traitor to the country. right? >> you're -- i'm not answering that question. it's speculation. >> you said that, haven't you, miss greene, she's a traitor to the country. >> no, i haven't said that. >> okay put up plaintiff's exhibit 5, please. >> wait, hold on now, i believe by not upholding the, securing the border that that violates her oath of office. >> uh-uh, there is a lot going on with this testimony but it could also have wider implications. cynthia oxney and michael steele are back with me. cynthia, the burden of proof is on the challenger to show that

greene incited violence and helped the insurrections. was that burden of proof met yesterday? >> i don't think so. i'm sorry to say but i don't think so. >> why not? >> for instance you showed that clip about the receipts. that wasn't about the insurrection. that was about the border wall. it had nothing to do with the insurrection. she said 8 million times "i don't recall" and he didn't, he had a couple of tweets but he didn't have, for example, he pressured her on did you ever call mark meadows and say that there should be martial law. when she said i don't recall, he didn't have anything to back up that. >> this was an evidentiary hearing is what you're saying? >> there was no evidence and the judge was an administrative law judge, not a regular judge who didn't really adhere to the rules of evidence, and all kinds of things came in, she took complete control, and he let it go. there were just clearly times

when he should have slammed down and sustained objections and he didn't. she rambled on about cnn, he did nothing. people think these cases are easy. they are not easy. they are hard and they are hard now because we've had so much stonewalling to get the evidence and while it's helpful for cases like this to go forward to try to get stuff, they didn't really have it. they didn't have what they needed. they needed to have a nexus between, from the time it happened and actually moving from a big rally to actually going into the capitol and doing the insurrection. they needed evidence on that engagement word, that word on how it moved from a peaceful rally into killing people inside, and they don't have that, and i wish they did. i think she encouraged it. i know in my heart she encouraged it but that's very different from what happens in a courtroom. people need to appreciate how

difficult this is. >> michael, whatever the outcome of this hearing, should someone with this kind of acute memory loss even be eligible to run for re-election? >> totally irrelevant. doesn't matter. i was watching that following twitter and responses particularly in the conservative universe. she's come out of this thing stronger than she went in. the reality politically is that, you know, she owned the courtroom. cynthia just alluded to that. she took control. she was smirking, she was laughing. she was clearly lying about what she did not remember, as she knew and got caught in that one moment oh, you actually have something that says what i said, and it is just stunning to me that these prosecutors, this prosecutor, i get t it's hard but go out and get the evidence if you're going to bring the case. enough that you can patchwork that evidence together to create the impression, just as she created an impression she was in

control, create an impression she actually is not in control here, but they didn't do that, so i see this is going to be a win for her and she's going to be emboldened in the new house under kevin mccarthy, she'll probably have a committee chairmanship. >> michael, everyone is looking at the outcome of this particular lawsuit as a potential barometer for other controversial gop lawmakers trying to run for re-election. 'interesting, though, this is not a jury that's going to decide it. eight not the judge even though the judge makes the recommendation. the person who decides her electoral debate is brad raffensperger who never found the missing 11,780 votes trump needed him to find. what are the chances that raffensperger tells the gop including trump he's still not going to play ball with stuff like that? >> you know, i think at this point it will be very hard for him to do that, depending on how the messaging comes out of this

hearing, i think politically raffensperger is not necessarily going to upset the apple cart more than he already has. he's going to be in a battle to keep his seat. they've already redesigned the law to come at him in his role as overseeing elections. so i don't see that necessarily turning, that worm turning in favor of, you know, raffensperger decision that would have marjorie taylor greene sitting on the sidelines in november. >> cynthia, before we have to go, maybe that's evidentiary hearing, the burden of proof wasn't met but the fact she kept on saying "i don't recall, i don't remember" and even michael, all of us knew she was lying. do you think there's some perjury there or do you not think that comes out? >> i don't know, depends what they can get. they need to win these battles on discovery. what we're learning is that there were all these meetings at the white house. >> yes. >> and did she participate in

those meetings? what are the texts involved between her and meadows? we don't have those. what are the texts between her and gaetz. matt gaetz was with her in the courtroom yesterday, they're buddies. there needs to be more evidence and then we'll have to see but the problem, "i don't recall" is pretty slippery. what you don't need is another loss. you don't need another loss. >> can't take an "l." in the few seconds we have left, though, in the filing from the january 6th committee it does specifically reference the fact that margerie taylor greene was at the white house december 21st plotting and dealing with, to overturn the election. why did that evidence not come out before this hearing that happened yesterday? >> i don't know that, but they did limit in the hearing the judge and the plaintiff's lawyers sort of agreed that the issue in the hearing was what happened between when she was sworn in and january 6th. so december 21 wasn't as important in this hearing and maybe that's why they didn't focus on it.

i don't know. when she came outside and there's that, "i just had the meeting with the president, we can't wait --" to me that's compelling. >> compelling, right? >> and it wasn't the focus and i think it's because of that 1/6 focus. >> we need to have cynthia and michael come back. thank you guys for being here this morning. >> you got it. >> thank you. coming up, ron desantis' seal of disapproval. the florida governor signed disney's punishment into law with desantis on a crusade to make disney world the least magical place on earth. who is next in the cross-hairs. plus why some are comparing his scorched earth action to richard nixon and his so-called enemies list. s list we exercise. i noticed i wasn't as sharp as i used to be. my wife introduced me to prevagen

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it's safe to say the happiest place on earth should be free from politics, but with the stroke of a pen, the magic kingdom has become the latest casualty of the florida governor's war on wokeness. >> this state is governed by the best interests of the state, not any one corporation. we're not going to let them take over the state. >> that's ron desantis dishing out major retaliation to disney for his party's so-called don't say gay bill. it strips the company of its special status in florida allowed itself to self-govern

collecting taxes and providing its own emergency service. if mickey mouse isn't safe, who is next? desantis' action harkens back to president nixon's enemy's list. he kept a list of enemies according to one aide he wanted to punish using the powers of the federal government. the list started with 20 names and over the years grew to 576. for more, we are joined by democratic florida state senator chevron jones. senator jones, always a pleasure to see you. let's be clear, desantis is targeting disney for its opposition to his don't say gay bill. why is it so dangerous to use the power of the state against individuals and now even corporations who simply just have a differing point of view? >> first thank you for having me, katie. what ends up happening with bullies is that as long as they know they can get away from doing what they want to do and

have followers that follow behind him they can continue to go as far as they want to. we're seeing now what governor desantis, is that he is going after anyone who does not agree with him, whether it's corporations or whether it's individuals from within his own party. he has made it clear within his own party primary people who do not do as he says, so governor desantis wants to play the governor, the speaker of the house and the supreme court justice, and that's authoritarianism at its best, what we're seeing in the state of florida. >> while his motives are retaliatory, shouldn't disney be required to play by the same rules any large corporation would have to in the state of florida? >> here's the thing. you look at disney, you look at universal studios who has two special taxing districts, all of these corporations are some of the largest employers of

floridians we have within this state and the fact that the governor comes after these individuals, these are people's livelihoods. this has been a place for over 60 years, disney paid their fair share and as a matter of fact, the governor also can't double talk. you can't give disney a tax break of about $163 million for annual taxes and say all right then you put the bill on floridians and then you tax floridians. you either support big corporations or not, and so the governor, you can tell this is petty at its best and retaliatory. >> let's talk about that tax issue. disney world straddles orange and osceola. these counties are poised to have to take on over $1 billion of debt owed by disney and residents could pay more than $1,000 more per household and

local property taxes, not to mention disney employs 80,000 people in the said. what is the political fallout of ron desantis and his other gop supporters? >> the problem is that these are not just democrats who work for disney. these are republicans also. i have just been looking at some of the comments whether it's son social media, you ask around people are upset with what the governor is doing. you're messing with individuals' livelihoods. here's what i will say. i will say that if governor desantis wants to go down this route along with my republican colleagues and start banning corporations, this free florida, you're going to have corporations not go to florida, they'll look for another places to go. these type of actions can only backfire on republicans, while you're trying to make yourself

this national figurehead, you're making yourself a national figurehead for all the wrong reasons and that will not affect you as president. this will not work across the country. >> senator, quickly, i only have a minute left. desantis signed a new congressional map into law, it's his own map, there were obvious protests from democratic house reps earlier this week, it creates four new republican seats while eliminating three democratic seats. a lawsuit has been filed. you said the map is unconstitutional and silences black voters. how successful do you think it's going to be in the court system? >> the checks and balances that have been put in place, katie, have been put in place for a reason. there's one place governor desantis cannot play king within our courtroom. i believe the people of florida in 2010 voted for the fair district act and i believe that is what will be upheld in court, not the racial and the racist maps that were passed out of the

legislature two days ago. i'm confident. >> senator, we certainly hope that there is justice that prevails. thank you so much for being with us here this morning. >> thanks, katie. thank you. the tennis world divided on wimbledon. with the controversial decision to ban players from russiania and belarus from this year's tournament in response to russia's war in ukraine. some labeled the move as discriminatory and unfair, my question are politics and sports always going to be poor bedfellows? we're going to discuss that next after this break. after this break heartburn... claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? mission control, we are go for launch. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪♪

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wimbledon is serving up controversy ahead of this summer's tennis tournament. the decision to ban russian and belarusian players is dividing. writing this is horrible, even

indefensible. banning individual players because of the actions of their government is a path with hypocrisy and pitfalls. novak djokovic spoke out saying when politics interferes with sport the result is not good. others say it's a sanction that helps us avoid world war three. in a time magazine op-ed, an associate compared it to the olympic committee's ban of south africa during apartheid. quote, when we talked about packages of sanctions, the global sports world responds with removal of the champion's league final, prevention of qualifying for world cup, those were the easiest things to do. wimbledon is another layer of that and as much as people say politics and sports should not mix the reality is they have always list. mary joins me to talk about that. mary, it's a pleasure to have

you, thank you for being here this morning. there are countless times, mary, where politics and sports have collided. novak djokovic's vaccine controversy, collin kaepernick kneeling during the anthem. should sports and politics be kept completely separate or is it just together? >> katie, we can go back to the berlin olympics of 1936, which hitler used to promote nazis. >> that's right. >> in the case of wimbledon, i think people should understand a lot of it is optics. wimbledon celebrate all things throughout their fortnite and there are great elegant examples what they can do. this wimbledon is the queen's platinum jubilee, it's also the century of centre court. i think wimbledon is afraid in

the royal box there's going to be important people needing to applaud a russian. so that's all part of it. it gets nuts. it really does. i'm sorry it's come to this. two of the top ten men players in the worlds are russian. what they're saying, the wimbledon club chairman refuses to allow itself, he says, to be used to promote the russian regime. i don't think the players are trying to promote the russian regime. i think most people in the world are very much against what vladimir putin is doing. >> you bring up a good point. some russian athletes have used their platforms to denounce the war in ukraine, one of of those russian players, andrey rublev, who wrote no war, please. he's now one of the athletes ban from wimbledon. do the bans takeaway the

opportunity, mary, to amplify protests of the russian invasion and it cheats russian oppositions from a much larger global platform? >> andrey rublev, not only wrote that on the camera lens after he won his semifinal match in dubai a couple of weeks ago, he won the doubles titles there with a good friend who is ukraine. and daniil medvedev, the world number two, won the u.s. open. rublev has a good suggestion. instead of banning him, he thinks all player prize money should go to ukrainian families in need. john millman said that all wimbledon profits should go to ukraine. there are other solutions to this. i don't understand going forward how if wimbledon does this the road is navigatable. i'm going to paris for the

tournament in a couple weeks, as of now russians are allowed. there are some team events in tennis and in those events russians have not been allowed to play because they have their flags on their back, it's nation against nation. in the case of wimbledon they're overstepping. i hope it changes. i think the only way -- they're also going against the rules of the grand slam events, the atp, wba, which says you cannot discriminate against anybody except by ranking. by ranking these guys should be allowed to play. i think the only thing that would force wimbledon to step back is if they -- if they threaten to boycott. all of them. and i'm not sure that will happen. >> mary, we're going to watch and see what happens at the french open. we'll tune in to watch you as well. thank you for being with us. >> pleasure. thanks for watching the

katie phang show. you can catch new episodes on the msnbc hub every thursday and friday. ali velshi picks up right now. i. today on velshi, russian forces take several small towns in eastern ukraine as fighting intensifies along a 300 mile front. plus audio clips exposing lies told by top republicans are now leaking at a furious pace. what the new tapes tell us about the role that donald trump may have played in the capitol hill insurrection and why key players in the scandal are still lying about what they said on tape. and a dangerous and little known front on the assault on abortion rights. how republican lawmakers are now specifically targeting rape and incest victims. and what's different about a series of stunning union victories and why they