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now, there's golo. golo helps with insulin resistance, getting rid of sugar cravings, helps control stress and emotional eating, and losing weight. go to golo.com and see how golo can change your life. that's g-o-l-o.com. a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone, to "alex witt reports." we begin with another devastating look at the tragedy unfolding in ukraine amid the discovery of what appears to be a second mass grave in a village near mariupol. it comes as president volodymyr zelenskyy is sounding the alarm warning of the invasion and it was only the beginning and the kremlin wants to, quote, invade other countries. meantime, back in d.c., a new court filing overnight from the house committee investigating the january 6th insurrection

revealing new evidence that the former white house chief of staff, mark meadows, was warned about the threat of violence in the days and weeks leading up to the attack. also, growing criticism after florida governor ron desantis signed a bill into law stripping disney of its ability to self-govern its orlando-area theme parks. we're going to bring a live report in a moment. first, a growing political firestorm on capitol hill. house gop leader kevin mccarthy addressing for the first time those leaked audio recordings of his private conversations about donald trump in the days following january 6th. let's go right to it and get more from capitol hill. welcome to you. what's the reaction to these tapes overall? >> reporter: yeah, alex, house minority leader kevin mccarthy initially denied reports of what he's saying in these newly released audio clips from "the new york times." and he said that in a statement, but that was hours before these

audio clips were released. late last night we saw and heard from him for the first time since they were made public, and he is blatantly denying everything we clearly hear him say in these clips. i'm going to read quotes from the audio clips. basicallily says -- i actually think we have sound that we can play for you from these clips of mccarthy, alex. >> the only discussion i would have with him is that i think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation you should. >> he told me he does have responsibility for what happened. and you need to acknowledge that. i've had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> reporter: and lots of republicans were saying things like this in the immediate aftermath of january 6th. what makes mccarthy's situation different is how very quickly he

pivoted back to supporting the former president. we so clearly saw him in the weeks after the attack traveling to the mar-a-lago estate and going so far as to take a picture with him. now most house republicans are staying quiet on this. we've reached out to several, multiple gop offices, we have not heard back. but house democrats, meanwhile, sounding off saying mccarthy, his constant denials make him lose credibility, frankly. and now january 6th committee member and democratic congressman jamie raskin is saying that the information in these audio clips that mccarthy said actually helps the january 6th committee's investigation. listen here. >> minority leader mccarthy's words that were captured on that tape in a discussion with the republican conference just reinforced everything we're finding which is that this was an orchestrated premeditated

assault on our system of government. and we have i think what will be a very riveting story to tell america about how this came about, what were the causes behind it, and what we need to do to fortify our institutions in the future against coups and insurrections. >> reporter: and continuing on that news about the january 6th insurrection, late last night a court filing was released by the january 6th committee in which it alleges that former white house chief of staff mark meadows was warned that the events on january 6th could lead to violence. but as we know, as we now know, alex, he did push for the former president's rally on the ellipse to go forward anyways. >> he did indeed. okay, thank you, allie raffa. we are also hearing some new reaction from donald trump himself about those tapes. i'm going to go right to vaughn hillyard from delaware, ohio. that is where donald trump hits

the campaign trail tonight. what is he saying about this as i say welcome to you? >> reporter: hey there, good afternoon. let's be frank here. the power structure of the republican party still orbits around donald trump who is stumping here in ohio today north of columbus, alongside j.d. vance, one of the republican candidates for the u.s. senate ahead of their primary on may 3rd here. and you know, i think that the story of vance largely alliance with the story of kevin mccarthy. individuals who doubted donald trump in the past, who are now standing side by side and defending him as the leader of the republican party. actually just last night, the "wall street journal" posted an article in which they interviewed the former president about those audio recordings of kevin mccarthy in the days after the january 6th insurrection. and i want to let you just see part of it there in which he says, quote, i think it's all a big compliment, frankly. they realized they were wrong and supported me. in that interview, he referenced

the fact that kevin mccarthy just three weeks after those comments, after that phone call in which he suggested that he would potentially urge donald trump to resign from the presidency, he came down to florida, to mar-a-lago, and stood there side by side and posed for a photo with donald trump signaling that the republican party was going to stand behind the former president. and look where we are more than a in -- more than a year later, donald trump is still very much the leader of this republican party. you know, i mentioned j.d. vance here, j.d. vance was one of those individuals in 2016 who didn't vote for the former president. and yet, you know, fast forward, he is now one of his biggest champions signaling that he was wrong to ever suggest that he was a cultural heroine at the time to the republican party and the country. he called them reprehensible, an idiot. fast forward to today, those two are going to be joining each other on stage here ahead of that may 3rd primary as donald trump tries to signal to the rest of the country that he is

still the most influential member of this republican party and ultimately the candidates he picks and that may include the likes of kevin mccarthy who is looking to be speaker next year. his head nod is where the power lies in the republican party. >> okay, thank you so much for that report from ohio. we appreciate that. let's turn now to the breaking news in the war on ukraine. right now you're looking live at ukrainian president zelenskyy. he is holding a press conference with reporters -- actually what you say there obviously is a reporter. trust me, there is a press conference under way. it comes as russia's attacks intensify. local authorities say a missile struck infrastructure in odesa earlier today. ukrainian officials say five people were killed. that includes a 3-month-old baby. also new today in mariupol, officials say russian forces have renewed their attacks on the steel plant where hundreds of ukrainian fighters and possibly civilians are trapped. let's go to matt bradley who joins us from ukraine. so let's talk about ukraine and

the approach to this new russian offensive. what do you know about that, matt? >> reporter: yeah, we're hearing from a general who was -- senior general in the russian military. he was describing as of yesterday, gives a glimpse of what russia's ambitions in ukraine are. the problem is we don't actually know this is the official plan and if this general actually represents vladimir putin since this is really just one man's war. this is vladimir putin declaring war on ukraine with this invasion. it's been two months, and we're finally hearing that vladimir putin and russia might have the goal of trying to take over the whole eastern part of the country, the donbas region, which has been at war with russian-backed separatists since 2014, as well as the whole southern coast. essentially rendering ukraine a land-locked country, but connecting another region in moldova, neighboring country to the west, of -- this region has

also been occupied by russian-backed separatists, very similar to donbas region. it's kind of seen as a mini donbas. so if he were to do that, if they were to achieve this goal, they could create a land bridge between moldova and the donbas region along the southern coast, and then, now, today we're seeing this lethal attack on odesa. a city that they would have to take in order to achieve that deal. all of this two months into vladimir putin's invasion. the two-month marker is tomorrow. also tomorrow is the holiday of easter. i'm standing in front of a church here where in the orthodox tradition we're already seeing parishioners lining up, being blessed by the priest. the festivities and the observance begins actually in the orthodox tradition the night before easter. and so a lot of ukrainians here. and you heard this in some of the social media video that came out of odesa after that attack remarking that president putin is continuing his war through

the cruelty of the easter sunday. this is something that a lot of people here, they treasure this holiday, and they're marking how cruel it is that vladimir putin is continuing his attacks. he refused to observe or to exceed to an offer by president volodymyr zelenskyy to have a truce over this weekend and instead is continuing his assault even as you mentioned on that steel workers in mariupol where 1,000 civilians and thousands of soldiers are thought to be bunkering down underground. >> yeah. hey, speaking of president zelenskyy, matt, we are just getting word that this press conference we've been following, and you've been speaking to us as it happens, so you may not have heard this, but apparently he's saying he spoke to british prime minister boris johnson who is pledging to help by sending heavy military equipment, britain's making that commitment. have you heard anything about that or at least the request that zelenskyy would make on that front? >> reporter: yeah, we're hearing that -- of course we've heard from president zelenskyy quite a

bit. two months into there conflict, president zelenskyy has spent quite a bit of time appealing to the world, addressing parliaments everywhere from britain and the congress in the united states to south korea and japan. this is a man who has gone around the world asking for help. and now finally, in this address, we're hearing that he's finally satisfied. he's hoping for more, of course, but he actually applauded the u.s. in saying the pace of donations of equipment, of lethal military equipment that would be used to kill russians, essentially bringing the u.s. and other western powers into the war in some way, in a way that does make some people, particularly germany as we've heard, quite uncomfortable. but now sounds like he's finally getting his wish. he finally feels as though ukrainian troops are outfitted with the most up-to-date weapons and that they're now in a position, within striking distance of launching counterattacks and taking back as he just said tonight, taking back land that was taken by the russians. and he vowed that they would be

taking back everything that was taken from ukraine. >> you know what strikes me, looking at this news conference, just the logistics of it. this looks like an official presidential news conference. i mean, yes, he's wearing fatigues, but look at the huge number of reporters there. i mean, this is not something we've seen, and i'm guessing that they're feeling pretty confident with security, that they're able to hold this kind of a news conference safely. what does that tell you? >> reporter: absolutely. i was actually just in kyiv a few weeks ago where everything in the central part of the city was very much intact. you go only 30 minutes outside of the city, and you will see horrific carnage and wreckage. there were dead bodies that have since been cleaned up, and we're talking about, you know, a russian occupation that was going on right outside of the city. but the russians were never able to take the capital. that's why reporters including our team, everybody is starting to move back into kyiv. security there is becoming more

secure, more sound. we're starting to hear finally of some embassies that are moving back into the capital. remember, a lot of embassies had either moved to the western city of lviv or into neighboring polandment but the capital is coming back to life. when i was there just a few days ago, i was walking around, i started hearing air raid sirens and they're frequent here, and i saw a woman rollerblading down the street as the siren was going off. the situation there, the mood there is just so much more calm. >> okay. well good on all of that. thank you for ad-libbing all those questions and answers and giving us perspective, as well. thanks, matt. joining me now is a member of the ukrainian parliament. welcome, i'm glad you're here. the reaction to those latest missile strikes in odesa, what's going through your mind? >> that war goes on. matt was absolutely right when he described the situation in

kyiv, it's much more calm, going back to normal, as it should be. at the same time ukrainians and the world alike cannot forget that the war is not over yet. russia is still advancing, it's just that they shifted their advances to other areas of ukraine. that means that millions of ukrainians elsewhere in the country are now suffering from their air strikes, from the artillery fire, and from the cold-blooded shots that russians are firing. >> yeah. and including in those areas is mariupol where a counselor to the mayor there says that today's evacuation attempts were halted. do you have any update on efforts to get civilians out of the city safely? >> efforts are being done every single day. when it's not organized systemic evacuations, the civilians are trying to leave themselves just by getting into their cars and

finding safe passage and hoping that the checkpoints which they pass that they can manage to beg the russian soldiers to let them out to safety. every time it's a gamble, a 50/50 situation. they may be let out if they've been to the ukrainian territories or may be re-routed into russia. that is exactly what happened with the evacuation situation today which was halted. so the ukrainians who were on buses leaving mariupol, they were told that, okay, now you can just go into russia or into rather occupied territories in the region which is a no-go essentially because what those ukrainians are being offered is to be -- to go into filtration camps where they are being searched, their phones are being looked through, and where evidence is being sought while these -- to see whether these ukrainians have been active in

the resistance against russian occupation. and if they have been, then their fate becomes unknown literally to anyone in the world. we assume that they are taken into interrogation centers, into torture prisons, and that they may be even killed. and that is not an evacuation operation -- >> absolutely not. in terms of being killed, this is terrifying with mariupol's city council saying that a second mass grave has been found outside that city. this one could hold the bodies of at least 1,000 residents. this comes a day after the images were released of a different mass grave outside the city. that one could contain as many as 9,000 bodies. it's horrifying to think about. what are you hearing about this? >> it's absolutely tragic. and the evidence, of course, we will be able to collect and to say exactly what was going on there once the city is

deoccupied and ukrainians at least regain control over all of these areas. it's crucial that we uncover the truth and that we don't allow the russians to cover up all the crimes they have been implementing. it's crucial for justice to be served in the world, and it's crucial for the world to know what's going on to prevent further situations like this. i imagine that everything we are hearing now is not just rumors, but it's going to be -- we're going to see more atrocities, and we have to be prepared for that. really what russia has done in the vicinities of kyiv, it were absolutely brutality -- i have no words to actually properly describe what was uncovered there. in mariupol, it will be probably the same thing, but to a larger extent. mariupol was a very densely populated city, over 400,000 ukrainians lived in that city. and it's quite clear that after russians blocked off all routes

to and from the city and there's no electricity, no gas supply, no water supply, there's extreme food scars sits, people are going hungry and some people are dying not just because of russian bullets but dying because they don't have access to the basic needs such as food and water. >> uh-huh. i'll tell you, i'm glad to speak with you despite the horrifying nature of part of this conversation. but thank you so much. do take care of yourself. for all of you, we're going to keep monitoring this news conference right now with the president of ukraine. and we will bring you further updates as we get them. meantime, with her seat in congress on the line yesterday, marjorie taylor greene appeared to suffer from memory loss. will that protect her from a lawsuit trying to prevent her from being re-elected? next, reaction from the group suing her. i don't remember. >> you're not denying it, you're just saying you don't recall? >> i don't recall. i'm not answering that question. i don't remember. i don't remember. i don't recall making that

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no, that's freaky. here are the other top stories we're following right now for you. the final is under way for pittsburgh steelers quarterback dwayne haskins in his home state of new jersey. the 24-year-old was killed this month when he was hit by a truck while crossing a florida interstate. it appears haskins had run out of gas. fire alerts are in place for millions of americans in the west and plains today. wildfires have burned dozens of homes in arizona and put many villages in new mexico in danger. high winds have been fueling these fires. one new mexico city reported gusts up to 93 miles per hour yesterday. and republican georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene testified at an unprecedented disqualification hearing. at issue is whether she is constitutionally barred from holding office because of her alleged role in the january 6th insurrection. greene said she could not recall

any conversations with lawmakers or trump officials about disrupting the electoral college count that day among other details she just could not remember yesterday. when did you first become aware that there were going to be large demonstrations in d.c. on the 6th? >> i don't recall. >> who put it on your calendar? >> i don't know. >> somebody your staff i take it? >> i have no idea. >> are you denying that under oath you that made that statement? >> i'm not. i just don't recall -- i'm not recalling saying specifically that. >> well, for more on greene's testimony i'm joined by jennifer taub, member of the legal advisory team for free speech for people, that's the group representing the voters behind the petition. she's a law professor at western new england university school of law. welcome to you, jennifer. i've got to imagine as a lawyer that is just so darn frustrating. you're licensing to someone say "i don't know, i don't remember," as if she's not paying attention and saying, "i don't recall, i don't know,"

yeah, it's beyond fruts traiting. but i know that your group sa representative greene should be knocked off the ballot because she violated a section of the 14th amendment that bars those who have engaged in insurrection or rebellion from seeking federal office. as you watched her take the stand yesterday, do you think your group can still make the case -- i mean, is she effectively saying, look, i don't know, i don't recall, i don't know what i did or said? is that a good defense for her? >> you know, alex, thank you so much for having me. and i want to just mention that free speech for people and our legal director ron fein is co-counsel on this case. there's two things that you've mentioned. one, what looks like is it perjury or is it just forgetfulness or stubbornness. and i just want to point out that you said i might be frustrated as a lawyer to watch that, but actually i teach white-collar crime and one of

the topics is perjury. what's interesting is under georgia law, what she did might not rise to the level of perjury. it sounds like she was coached quite well by her lawyer because merely being -- speaking rashly or inconsiderately and speaking even under a false belief about something might not be perjury, so that one instance where she claimed she had never called nancy pelosi a traitor and then when she was confronted and kind of remembers -- her demeanor was inconsiderate and did seem like she was speaking kind of rashly. furthermore, it's not considered to be perjury under georgia law if what you said wouldn't have the effect of -- effect of influence -- influencing the tribunal. and here to the extent that this alg, this administrative law judge, seems to be wanting to make up his mind based on the briefing and maybe not the testimony, it might be difficult to do that. but as for the really important thing that we're focused on, as

you mentioned, is whether she is and should be disqualified from the ballot to be on the georgia ballot for the u.s. house. and she absolutely should. and i just want folks to remember that what we're talking about here is something hardwired into the u.s. constitution. it's the same thing about qualifying for office based on your age or based on your residency, or based on your citizenship status, how long you've been a citizen before you can be a member of congress. and if marjorie taylor greene weren't the right age, citizens of georgia, like i did here, could challenge her. and so what we're saying here is it's clear that there was an insurrection at the capitol on january 6th. we all know that, and there have been cases showing that, right. it's also clear, and we saw the video, that marjorie taylor greene absolutely said that she did not want a peaceful

transition of power. what she is trying to do is fool us or convince us all that when she said she did not want the power to be transferred to joe biden peacefully that she's trying to claim that peacefully means what they did on the floor of congress as opposed to what happened outside that she absolutely encouraged. >> it's interesting, you're trying to do this in the court of law. i've got to think her constituents are listening to her and thinking, well, yeah, okay, this is somebody who represents us and our interests in congress. a, she serves on absolutely no committees whatsoever and can't remember anything she's done or said. you would think they would think why are we electing her because she doesn't know what she's saying, she's not really working for us when it comes to anything in terms of bringing money into our area or helping out some issues relative to our needs anyway. that said, greene testified that she never intended to promote violence on january 6th. but look at all these many

questions she deflected about all her activities in the lead up to the capitol riot. let's listen to what she said as to whether she ever recommended that donald trump declare marshal law to try to stay in power. here's that. >> prior to the inauguration in 2021, did you advocate for marshal law with the president of the united states? >> i don't recall -- i don't recall. >> are you saying it didn't happen or you're saying you don't recall one way or the other? >> i don't recall ever discussing that. >> okay. did you discuss that topic, the idea that there should be marshal law declared in the united states prior to the inauguration of president biden -- >> your honor, i'm going to have to object. i represent the president of the united states, and that's covered by executive privilege. she can't -- >> executive privilege? she's not a member of the executive, and this counsel is here on her behalf not on mr. trump's behalf unless there's something i missed. it's not a proper occasion, your

honor. >> she's having trouble remembering the details. all these claims of executive privilege, as well, you heard that from greene's attorney and someone who said i represent the president of the united states. what do you make of that? >> i think she's trying to dodge the question. i think she's trying to split hairs. the first question was whether she'd advocated, and she didn't remember. maybe the word advocate, it's kind of like what is the meaning of the word is. she's dodging questions, she's obstructing, and she's avoiding answering that because to the extent that she did advocate violence, what -- there would be proof that there is a linkage between -- between what happened outside the capitol, breaking in to the capitol, and the violence there, and the words that she used and her plot to try to overturn a valid election. so she's trying to do everything she can to convince the fact finder here, which is this

administrative law judge, that she deserves to be on the ballot, that she's qualified when she is not. >> yeah -- she's also been asked about this facebook post that she liked that indicated support for executing the speaker of the house. here's some of that exchange. take a listen to this. >> did you like a post that said "it's quicker than a bullet to the head would be a quicker way to remove nancy pelosi from the role of the speaker"? >> i've had many people manage my social media account over the years. i have no idea who liked that. >> okay. are you testifying under oath it wasn't you? i want to be clear on that. >> i am testifying i have no idea who liked that comment. >> does that response you heard, does that legally distance her from accusations she supported violence? i'm looking at you shaking your head. >> i have to say something, alex. that is so not credible. let me talk about my own personal experience. back that 2017 i helped organize the tax march. i was one of the co-founders of

that. we came together on twitter and helped rally people who were already organizing this at the grassroots nationwide. that was for tax day, april 15th, 2017. one of my biggest fears was that something would go wrong and there could be violence, and that violence would somehow taint what we were trying to do which was a peaceful, nonviolent protest, asking president trump to share his tax returns. and i want to say that any time i heard anyone say anything illegal, whether it was let's not file our taxes, i'm like, no, you've got to file your taxes, i was worried. we put in place all these kinds of guidance for people to help avoid any kind of violence. so in other words, if you are involved in -- she was encouraging people, she said there would be millions of people coming down, if you -- she may say she has no idea who liked that tweet, but there's no way she didn't know or worry about that. it was all over the news. we heard the testimony -- she said she never saw this "new york times" article.

back from march saying there could be violence. i don't believe her. i think she knew there was violence, and they are trying to use that violence, that pressure, the screaming, the violence, whatever was going to happen at the capitol to put pressure on mike pence, to put pressure on -- there was a lot going coordinating these efforts, and it's so clear from the other things we have seen that have come out. it's just not credible. i cannot imagine liking something like that or having anyone -- if i had people run my social media account do that. >> right. you'd want to be a lot more careful than she clearly is at this point. >> yes. >> all right, thank you so much. good to talk with you. meantime, imagine this -- the governor of your state gets in a fight with the largest employer and makes a move that will make your taxes skyrocket. is this happening and going over well in florida? is there more to come? some answers next. me answers ne. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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growing outrage and fallout to the latest moves by florida governor ron desantis. the potential 2024 presidential candidate signed a slate of new controversial bills into law that is pushing him to the forefront of the country's culture wars. desantis specifically targeting disney and recapation over its criticism of the so-called "don't say gay" bill. stephanie stanton is joining us from orlando. welcome. so what does it mean that disney's decades' old special tax status has now been revoked? talk about how unprecedented this is. >> reporter: good afternoon to you, alex. it certainly is unprecedented. and it appears based upon our reporting so far that taxpayers here innearbios yola county cou the losers in this. yesterday the governor signed a law that essentially dissolved the reedy creek improvement district. that was set up way back in 1967

that essentially gave disney powers to self-govern. that made disney in charge of things on its 25,000 acres in the orlando area, things like fire services, water, utilities, even land improvements that it wanted to make to where it didn't have to seek county approval. well now that appears to be gone based upon this new legislation. and we talked to the orange county tax collector. he tells us that the reedy creek improvement district collects about $105 million in annual revenues, and he says at this point with those revenues gone, nearby counties could be left to foot the bill. >> it could be a financial fiasco for orange county residents because reedy creek is an independent taxing district which means disney pays the same property taxes everybody else does, and it pays additional taxes to reedy creek. the moment that reedy creek doesn't exist, those taxes are gone. and all that debt and obligation

gets put onto orange county and orange county citizens. >> reporter: now the new law does not take effect until june of 2023, and the tax collector says when that happens, area residents could see -- again, this is his -- him saying this -- they could see a tax property jump of roughly 20%. now at this point, opponents of the governor say this is nothing more than political retribution against disney for speaking out in favor of the so-called "don't say gay" bill. and at this point, we have not heard from disney, but what is probably a fair thing to guess is that there will be some legal battles in all of this, and we still don't know how it's going to play out. >> there will be whether legally or taxpayers saying we don't want to pay 20% more in property taxes. thank you so much for that. coming up next, amid the sorrow in a final farewell, a cry for justice in grand rapids, michigan, and beyond.

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now to growing demands for the grand rapids police department to release the name of the officer who fatally shot 26-year-old patrick lyoya. the funeral for the black father of two from the congo was held yesterday. three weeks after he was shot in the back of the head by an unnamed officer following a traffic stop in grand rapids. national action network founder and msnbc host reverend al sharpton delivered the eulogy.

>> every time a young black man or woman is arrested in this town, you put their name all over the news. [ applause ] er -- every time we're suspected of something, you put our name out there. [ speaking foreign language ] how dare you hold the name of a man that killed this man? we want his name! >> well the grand rapids police chief says he will only release the name of the officer if he is charged with a crime. joining me now, charles coleman, civil rights attorney and msnbc legal analyst. thanks, charles, for joining me on this saturday about this. let's begin with the unnamed officer. what kind of precedence is there for withholding a police officer's identity after they are involved in a killing? i mean, should he be protected

at this point as the police chief says until he's charged with a crime? >> well, good afternoon, alex. what we're talking about with respect to withholding this officer's name strikes at the very core of the conversation around police accountability and police reform. america has a very toxic police culture, and its problem is enabled by extremely powerful police unions. oftentimes what we're seeing in this case is the result of police unions having agreements whereby they cannot release the names of these officers unless or until they are charged with a crime. and this is one of the obstacles, one of the barriers to having police accountability through transparency to community in different situations like this. so it is not necessarily unusual, but it is a function of the strength of different police unions which in grand rapids, michigan, happen to be very strong in terms of their influence. >> so the independent -- it's the independent autopsy reports that lyoya was killed because of the gunshot in the back of his

head during the struggle with the police officer. the state autopsy has not yet been released as they are awaiting a toxicology report before putting that together. what do these initial findings tell you about the potential for charges against this officer? >> what they tell me is we are likely looking at something which could in terms of by law be made out in terms of being a second-degree murder charge under michigan statutes. now whether we'll see that is a different conversation altogether, but it does seem that the facts lend themselves to the notion that this was an execution, this was mr. lyoya being shot in the back of the head by this officer, and based off of the different standards that have been set forth by the supreme court around use of force by police officers, this officer does not qualify. it's important to understand quickly that there are two governing supreme courts with -- decisions with respect to use of force and officers. the first says that it is not reasonable for an officer to shoot a fleeing suspect if that

officer does not have probable cause that the suspect is armed. we don't have that in this case. it is also excessive force which needs to be balanced genes community interests and public safety. it is not clear in any way, shape, or form how this man posed any threat or harm to the public since that would have warranted an escalation of violence in the way this officer took. by those standards set by the united states supreme court, it certainly appears that there is a pathway to charge this officer under michigan law with second-degree murder. again, that remains to be seen whether it will happen, but the framework absolutely exists. >> so this week the michigan department of civil rights announced that it is asking the doj to launch a pattern or practice investigation into the grand rapids police department. tell me what they would be looking for. >> well, pattern and practice cases can be established in a variety of ways. they can be established anecdotally where you decide to identify similarly situated

persons who have had similar experiences that basically corroborate one another or corroborate the notion that the department had a pattern or a practice of discrimination in a particular way or a pattern or practice of excessive force against a certain group of people. so they're going to be looking to identify specifics around the similarity of people who have been afflicted in particular situations by law enforcement officers, as well as the responses that were given and taken by these law enforcement officers. in addition to the anextdotal evidence that can be used to establish pattern or practice, they can use statistics. they will be using whatever statistics that they have around stopping police -- around traffic stops, around arrests, around -- >> you know what, you're exactly talking about what i wanted to ask you. i'm going to have my director put up some of these full screens because this is -- you know, big picture. again, this guy was stopped and killed during a traffic violation. so according to the mapping

police violence, 28% of the people killed by police in 2021, they were black even though, by the way, they make up just 13% of the population. as you can see, though, black people have been disproportionately killed by police for years. then we have this -- 10% of all police killings involve traffic violations. since 2017, mapping about 600 people having been killed following a traffic stop. i mean, are these big-picture stats going to be useful when thinking about what happened to patrick lyoya and how we consider policing practices as we go forward? >> i think they should be. i mean, these stats tell everyone everything that has been being said for literally years out of community by anyone who has been paying attention. and the reality is that they've gone ignored for far too long. the statistics speak for themselves. the question is what is going to matter when it comes to a conversation about large-scale police reform and as well as this individual case. far too often we see a finding

of systemic racism or systemic -- pattern or practices with respect to individual police actions and departments. what we don't necessarily see individual officers held accountable in the ways that they prompt these things. i will remind of you what happened in ferguson, missouri, where the department of justice found after the killing of michael brown that there was a pattern or practice of systemic racism within that police department, but yet they still were not able to hold darren wilson, the individual officer causing the death of michael brown, accountable. so it is my fear and concern that as they look at these things systematically, yes, that is very important and something that needs to be looked at across michigan and overall nationally. we still need to hold the officer that killed this young man accountable. >> charles coleman, thank you so much for yourin sights, sir. a reason to celebrate for some, reasons to worry for others. so what if the mask mandate on planes makes a comeback? anes ma? c levels.

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the biden administration announced that the transportation security administration will no longer enforce the federal mandate requiring masks on all u.s. airports and on board aircraft. [ cheers and applause ] >> there you heard it for yourself, celebrations spontaneously erupting on planes across the country on the announcement that a federal judge in florida struck down the nationwide mask mandate on public transportation. however, now, the justice department is appealing that ruling. but it comes after the cdc issued a statement on thursday saying masking in the indoor transportation corridor remains necessary for the public health. joining me now, i'm thrilled to say here in studio, sara nelson, president of the association of flight attendants, cwa. so glad you're here. lots to talk about. you look at this new a.p. poll, we're going to throw it up here and it shows that a majority of americans don't want the mask

mandate lifted. there's a full 56% who are in favor of travelers wearing masks, 24% opposed to that and anecdotally, i flew round trip from new york this week. my first flight on monday, that flight, completely masked up, everybody was. but my return flight was after the mask mandate had dropped and i was very curious to see. every flight attendant was wearing their mask. about 9 and a half out of 10 people were wearing their masks. it was voluntary. i took such comfort in that, seeing people who want to wear their masks. they still did it. >> yeah, they still did it. i have to tell you, when that ruling came out, there was a collective sigh of relief, and here's why. flight attendants have been wearing those masks 14, 15, 16-hour days because we're flying all day long. >> for sure. >> not just for a couple hours or six hours across the country, and enforcing this has been a real bear. we have had a lot of conflict every single day on the planes, so people -- so there was a sigh of relief at the same time, though, this was communicated

very poorly by the airlines, mid-flight so people were taking off with one set of rules, landing with another. and there are people who are immunocompromised and people who are flying with children or have children at home who can't yet get vaccinated, and we heard from members who were very concerned about this. we also heard from some who were very happy about it. and we heard from others who said, i'm just going to continue wearing my mask. >> right. right. and that was the good thing. you can. there's no shame in continuing to wear a mask. it seems perfectly normal and many, obviously, according to that a.p. study, they want this mask mandate to stay in place. and those people as well for reasons that you suggested there. but in general, let's take a look at some of these several videos that are circulating online. there was the one that we just played of course, announcing the owned of the mandate. there are some other controversial videos out there right now that show crew members appearing to be celebrating with passengers who are happy that, yeah, no more masks, yay. is there a reaction you have to those? i mean, is there any level of

professionalism that you're saying, maybe you shouldn't be celebrating with the passengers? >> i'm really, really sort of upset with the airlines because they set a tone here by advocating instead of continuing to do what they had done before, which was say, we're going to follow the instruction from the public health officials. so, they set a tone ahead of time, and then they pushed these messages to planes while they were in flight, and as i said, this has been very difficult on the front lines, so there were people who were happy, and this was coming from leadership at the airlines, so i think that we've got to take a moment here now and recognize what was done wrong. that is not how you roll out a policy decision in a way that is going to keep things calm, make sure everyone understands the rules, why they're in place, what they need to do to follow them, what the consequences may be if they don't. and we've really got to have -- we got to refocus people on the fact that flight attendants are there for the safety, health, and security of the passengers in our care. we need support from our airlines to be able to do that. and you know, i do thank the federal government for backing us up on that and also the faa

administrator coming out immediately and saying, listen, folks, we're going to make the zero tolerance policy permanent because this hasn't just been about masks. >> good. >> it has been about bucking the fact that flight attendants are there for your safety, we're going to give you instructions to keep you safe and everyone on board safe and you got to follow those and you can't come on board and be abusive or create conflict or worst of all be violent. >> yeah, no, 100%, and the uptick in violence has been extraordinary. it's been awful against flight attendants there. out of people's frustration. but here's my question. if this mask mandate comes back, and that is a big if, but were it to do that, is the jeanne out of the bottle? i mean, are people going to say, wait a minute, we don't want to have to wear masks again? there's a mandate. do you worry that would pose further disruption to the flight attendants and really some danger when they're on the job? >> well, look, i think that because things are so -- have been so politicized through these last two years, we can't even talk about this in a rational way, but let's be really clear. we had masks on the planes, and

we have been instructed as flight attendants for decades now to ask someone to mask up when there's an epidemic outbreak and they're coughing on the plane, for example. so this is not an abnormal thing. this is -- we usually stop the spread of communicable disease at transportation store. and when you're in that metal tube, you have a set of rules you don't have anywhere else. you can't bring a gun or a knife into my workplace. you got to practically undress to show you're not a security threat and you got to have that seat belt on because if you get thrown around the aircraft cabin, you're going to come down and land and hurt someone else too. so there's a set of rules that you've got to follow and flight attendants are there to give that leadership or enforce those rules, and get other people to help us. and that mask mandate could come back, but let's be really clear, alex. there are people who are traveling to the airport today where there's still mask mandates in place on transportation in certain cities, so you got to pay attention to what the rules are at the time and also, you know, we got to get back to, okay, let's take a breath here.

let's follow the science. listen to the recommendations from the public health professionals, and make sure that we're taking care of each other. >> yeah. give me five. you're the best. i'm so glad to have you here, given how much i fly. i'm grateful for what you do and i'm a jetblue girl and all the flight attendants keeping us safe in the air. we'll see you again soon, i hope. everyone, watch your calendar. there's a day coming up that could be critical in russia's invasion of ukraine. we're going to explain that in our next hour. ukraine. we're going to explain that in our next hour. hi, my name is cherrie. i'm 76 and i live on the oregon coast. my husband, sam, we've been married 53 years. we love to walk on the beach. i have two daughters and then two granddaughters. i noticed that memories were not there like they were when i was much younger. since taking prevagen, my memory has gotten better and it's like the puzzle pieces have all been [click] put together. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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