forever. this sunday, new battle lines in ukraine. >> another stage of this operation is beginning. >> ukrainian fighters pulling out in mariupol. >> we're still fighting. we destroyed one tank today. two armored flight vehicles and one armored personnel carrier. >> as russian forces take control of dozens of small towns, president biden announces another $800 million in u.s. military aid. >> he will never succeed in dominating and occupying all of ukraine. as new evidence of russian war crimes emerges. >> it's hard to imagine what

happened to these people. >> i'll talk to a top adviser to ukraine's president zelenskyy, deputy national security adviser jon finer, and to republican senator roy blunt. who recently returned from the region. and newly released tapes show congressman kevin mccarthy did want president trump to resign after january 6th. >> what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that. >> will mr. trump still support mccarthy's bid to become speaker? and -- we really need to finish delivering on some big deal promises we made during the 2020 election. >> i'll talk to democratic senator elizabeth warren about what she says democrats need to do to avoid disaster in november. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news white house correspondent, carol lee, former white house political director for president george w. bush, sara fagen, "new york times" peter baker and errin

haines, editor-at-large of the 19th. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press". >> nbc news in washington, the longest running television show in history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. i'm kristen welker filling in for chuck todd. while russia's grand military ambitions may have failed, vladimir putin's ability to cause massive destruction and suffering. remains undiminished and apparently unsatisfied. he struck militarily in the port city of odesa which until now had been largely spared. satellite imagery has captured evidence of what appears to be a massive grave site out of mariupol, the latest sign of what could be russian war crimes. mariupol remains the scene of a desperate stand by ukrainian fighters holding out against a siege putin says not even a fly should be allow stod escape from.

-- allowed to escape from. . russia hopes to capture the eastern donbas region and a russian commander now saying all of southern ukraine into neighboring moldova. president zelenskyy says u.s. secretary of state antony blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin are expected to arrive in kyiv today for talks on u.s. military assistance. we're going to begin our reporting this morning with a top adviser to president zelenskyy. igor shovka in kyiv this morning. welcome to "meet the press." let's get right to you it because, right to it because we do have a lot to cover. president zelenskyy has said that he's expecting a visit by the secretaries of state and defense. what do they need to accomplish while they're on the ground so that their visit is more than just a photo op? >> first and foremost, it's the delivery of weapons. we are thankful for the u.s. administration for having the delivery, especially the last

two announcements the u.s. president made, not only the amount, but also very important, which is the items which were declared. this is exactly the items, the pieces of weapons we need on field. we really need armored vehicle. we need assistance. we need tanks in order to defend ourselves on the ground, in order to unblock cities such as mariupol, in order to withstand the potential offensive of russian armed forces in the donbas. that's what we need immediately. that's what we need now, and that's what we need a bigger quantity. the main subject of the discussion with distinguished guest will be delivery of weapons. >> just to be very clear, do you need more of the weapons that you're getting or do you need different weapons? >> the weapons that we get now from the u.s. is almost these kind of weapons that we need. we definitely need more weapons

in terms of defending the sky over ukraine. because nato countries refuse to close the skies over ukraine. so we also need anti-missile systems and anti-aircraft systems. because daily and nightly, ukrainian cities are bombarded by the cruise missiles. you mentioned odesa yesterday, just eight injured and 18 wounded. a grandmother, a child, a girl three months. yesterday, the russian missiles hit the building. we also need to protect our sky. >> let's talk about what else is happening on the ground there. we know that russia has said that it now controls mariupol, a key port city. ukrainian officials have pushed back against that. they say that's not the case and in fact, there are still ukrainian forces that are holed up in a steel plant there that was bombarded overnight. can you give us the reality check though? does russia now have enough control of mariupol that it

controls it? >> no. that's false. russia does not control the city of mariupol. it controls some part of the city of mariupol. ukrainian armed forces are still in town. concentrated now on the asov steel plant and concentrated there together with the civilians and many ukrainian soldiers are wounded. my president suggested several times to have a humanitarian corridor in order to evacuate the civilians which are left on the steel plant and the wounded soldiers. he proposed to exchange them for the russian wounded soldiers in possession in ukraine. no reaction. today, turn to russian authorities to open the humanitarian corridors for civilians, including those living in the city of mariupol, because more than 100,000 civilians are still left in the city, almost wiped down and the people are living without, elementary conditions, without

food, without water supply, without electricity. that's where we need the attention of the international community. >> mr. zhovka, let me ask you about the attack, the russian commander who warned on friday, russia's goal is to capture the east and to the south and create a land corridor that stretches all the way into moldova. is that what you're bracing for? >> the first day was to capture, if not all ukraine but the major parts of ukraine in the capital city of kyiv, kharkiv, odesa. >> do you think they're moving into moldova? >> they can move anywhere they want, but we will not let them do this, because capturing the whole donbas is their dream, sto starting from 2014. i have to remind you, the war started not in 2022. the actual war of russia started in 2014 by capturing the crimean part of donbas. now they want to capture the whole donbas.

yes, they want to have the connection between donbas and the crimea. as far as the moldova is concerned, yes, we heard those announcements of russian officials who knows, you never know with russia, but yes, that could be a high possibly. possibility. >> it was reported on friday, the u.n. secretary general will meet with president putin this coming week to try to negotiate a peace deal. does the u.n. secretary general, is he authorized to speak on behalf of the ukrainian government? >> not really. not really. and this is not a good idea to travel to moscow. we did not understand his intention to travel to moscow and to talk to president putin. >> are there any hopes for these peace talks? what's the purpose then? >> i cannot tell you. any peace talks, would end with the result. i really doubt if those peace talks organized by secretary general of the u.n. would end up with any result. the u.n. should actually do more, not only in terms of political things, but in terms

of humanitarian, the u.s. is not lagging behind in ukraine in terms of humanitarian support in my country. it would be good if the secretary general would focus on this as well. >> okay, mr. zhovka, top adviser to president zelenskyy, thank you so much for joining us this morning on "meet the press". >> many thanks. >> joining me now is deputy national security adviser john finer. good to see you. welcome to "meet the press". >> thanks for having me. >> thanks for being here. let's start with president zelenskyy saying he is expecting a visit by the secretaries of state and defense. that he was very clear, he said, quote, they should not come here with empty hands, not just presents and cakes but with specific weapons. what will they be offering specifically on this trip? >> i would say a few things. we're in very close contact with our ukrainian counterparts, including those two secretaries, the president and president zelenskyy at all times. we've also been quite clear that if we are going to take a sort of high level visit to ukraine, we would not be announcing that in advance. i suspect that's an unsatisfying

answer but nothing to say further about that. in terms of empty hands, i would point to the last two weeks and ten days where the united states announced $1.6 billion to have a significant effect on the ground to enable ukraine to push back russian forces. >> we've been talking about the possibility of a high level trip for quite some time if such a trip were to occur at some point, would there need to be deliverables in order for it to be effective? >> we've been announcing deliverables, a fancy word for things we're providing to the ukrainians to enable their fight just about every day, if not every day, every week. we'll have more to say about that in the week ahead. >> you heard mr. zhovka saying russia does not have complete control of mariupol. is that the u.s. assessment as well. >> i would defer to the ukrainians who have a much closer ground level view of what's happening in mariupol. our understanding is that russian forces and ukrainian forces are continuing to fight in that city. and we are continuing to try to get the ukrainians as much assistance as possible to enable them in that fight.

>> i want to ask you about this russian official saying that the goal now is to try to build a land bridge into moldova. is it your assessment that that's a real threat? how concerned is the biden administration about that possibility? >> well, i think it's important to take a step back as my ukrainian counterpart did and point to the shifting russian war aims over time. we know very well russia's initial intention was to take over if not all of ukraine, the vast majority of it, to topple the government. because of the resistance they've met on the ground, again, enabled by u.s. assistance and the very brave fighting by the ukrainian forces, they've had to adjust. they're now focused on the south and east, that's quite clear. >> are they going into moldova, as well, do you believe? >> i think it remains to be seen but they're a long way from cities like odesa and certainly from moldova, to your earlier question, they have a lot of fighting still to do and we think the ukrainians are very effective in fending them off. >> if they did move into moldova or make moves in that direction, would that change the united states strategy at this point? >> we've shown an ability to be

nimble, to adjust our assistance and approach as the russian war aims have evolved and continue to do that over time depending on how things evolve on the battlefield. is the u.s. policy objective to defeat russia, can you say that definitively? >> our objective to enable the types of activity that allow ukrainians to win a victory in the battle for kyiv. russia intended to topple the ukrainian government. the ukrainians won that battle. we think that exact approach is going to be the way we follow through in the battles ahead and now focused on the south and east. >> also then, by that logic, is the broader policy goal to see ukraine defeat russia writ large? in our view, lost many of the war aims. intended to divide the west, and a nato alliance that's much more united than it's ever been and then to throw the ukrainian government, president zelenskyy continues. ukrainian democracy continues. russia more isolated.

the economy weaker. failing at virtually at every one of their initial objectives and our objective to continue that trend. >> you heard mr. zhovka express real skepticism about the u.n. secretary general holding talks with putin. how is the administration viewing those talks? are you skeptical or do you think there could be some progress that comes out of those talks? >> a very important principle for any negotiations and discussions diplomatically on the conflict of ukraine is that ukrainians should be the touch stone. nothing that goes on about the conflict of ukraine without close consultation and involvement of the ukrainian government. >> you heard mr. zhovka saying the u.n. secretary general is not authorized to speak on behalf of ukraine. is there any point to these talks? >> the conversations. we're in close consultation with partners and allies and we'll be proceeding along those lines. >> let me ask you about the new satellite images which appear to

show evidence of one, potentially two mass graves outside of mariupol. has the u.s. assessed that we are, in fact, looking at mass graves or are these evidence of more war crimes, jon? >> we've been quite clear we've seen significant evidence of atrocities, war crimes. you've heard very strong language coming out of our administration about the targeting of places like mariupol and elsewhere, that would be wholly consistent with how russia has been prosecuting this war from the beginning. >> have you confirmed those are new? new evidence of mass graves? >> nothing about the specific allegation but wholly consistent with everything we've seen russia doing. >> as you well know, president zelenskyy asked the biden administration to declare russia a state sponsor of terrorism. what's the latest update as the administration prepared to do that at this point? >> we're clear to look at that, as we look at a whole range after other additional steps that we take to hold russia accountable for the crimes that it's perpetrating on the ground

in ukraine, but i would say we're not waiting for the determinations to be made to impose costs on russia. costs that at this point, outside analysts say is going to lead to a 15% or more in the reduction of russia's gdp over the year and the impacts will intensify in the weeks and months ahead. >> jon finer, thank you so much for joining me on "meet the press". >> thank you. the u.s. providing $800 million in aid to ukraine. we talked about that with jon finer. president biden announced the aid package on thursday. >> the battle of kyiv was a historic victory for the ukrainians. it was a victory for freedom. won by the ukrainian people with unprecedented assistance by the united states and our allies and our partners. now we have to accelerate that assistance package to help prepare ukraine for russia's offensive that's going to be more limited in terms of geography, but not in terms of brutality. not in terms of brutality. >> joining me now is republican senator roy blunt of missouri who recently returned from the region.

welcome back, good to see you. >> kristen, good to be with you. the three big surprises in the last two months is the incredible resistance of the ukrainian, the almost rebirth of nato, and the lack of performance of the russian military. i'm sure putin is surprised by that and frankly, i think we are too. i've been on intel for about ten years and we didn't have any suggestion that any of those three things would happen in the level that they have. >> you did just return from the region and now of course, president zelenskyy has said he's anticipating a visit from the secretaries of state and defense. the biden administration, not confirming that visit, but assuming that it does in fact happen, what needs to happen in order for that visit to be effective to bear fruit? >> well, i think you always want to have some deliverable when you have a visit like that. >> do you expect they will? >> i think they'll probably be able to announce some things about the equipment, about

speeding up efforts there. in this case, it's just a deliverable to go. i think it's a good thing if they go and when they go. i think we ought to be thinking about reopening our embassy there, and if the ukrainian people can stay, i think our diplomats are willing to be there. i met with a number of them just last week. i think they're a little bit frustrated that they're barely outside the country, but they're outside the country and trying to manage all of the efforts of american volunteers. there are several hundred american volunteer groups trying to help people get food and shelter and clothing and those americans are there and i think the people who represent our country officially can safely be there now as well. >> let me ask you about something you said earlier this week. test fired icm, intercontinental ballistic missile but you said of vladimir putin this week, quote, he doesn't want to start a nuclear war. what gives you that confidence?

>> well, one, i think he's seen what happens in the war he started he thought he would win in a week. he's not prepared for that. they don't have an economy to support that. they've got more than they can deal with right now. >> do you have foreign evidence to believe that? >> this is just my instinct. he also said this week when finland talked about, and sweden talked about joining nato, well, if that happens, we won't be, scandinavia will no longer be a nuclear free area. it's ridiculous. they've got the nuclear capacity there. at leningrad. he's a bully. he's a bully and he keeps coming up with some new threat. frankly, at this time, he'll worry about what we will do as much as he will do and stop saying what we won't do, even if we know we don't do it, no reason to tell your adversary

in a situation like that where your red lines are. >> senator, let me ask you about the big story this week impacting your party. this is a new audio tape we heard from the top republican in the house, leader kevin mccarthy. began with revelations in the new book "this will not pass." authors released audio in which we hear mccarthy days after january 6th saying this about then president trump. take a listen and i'll get your reaction on the other side. >> we know it will pass the house. i think there's a chance it will pass the senate. even when he's gone. it's my recommendation he be gone. >> for context, it's important to point out before the audio was released, mccarthy said the words totally false and now said the tape was taken out of context. we understand he's spoken to former president trump and mended fences, but you just heard the audio, senator blunt. given the disconnect, how can americans believe what the top

republican in the house says? >> well, a lot of people are saying a lot of things in that two weeks. i haven't talked to the majority leader in the house about this, but he's been close to trump. frankly, when i first heard this, i thought, anybody close to president trump as kevin mccarthy was would know the last thing donald trump would do is resign or quit. it was a pathway, ten days to the end of this term. there was no way that was going to happen and i was frankly going to surprised that kevin would even suggest it might be a realistic suggestion to make to president trump. >> is it a credibility problem though that he came out and denied it and now there's tape that the world has heard that disproves his denial? >> well, you'll have to ask him that. my guess is you don't remember every conversation you're in exactly the way it occurred and maybe you remember it the way you wanted it to occur, but i've been, i'm the only one of two

people in the history of the country that elected leaders in both the house and senate. i've never been in the leadership meeting where you felt like you couldn't think out loud and apparently, they have a leadership where you can't think out loud. >> could it do his chances though to become the next speaker of the house should republicans win back the house? >> i think it depends on the margin. >> it could? >> anything could impact that. when you want to be speaker, you don't just get the majority of your members. you have to get almost all of your members and that's challenging, but i will tell you this. i think a lot of things will happen between now and november. i think one thing that's likely to happen is republicans will be in the majority. if that happens, nobody will work harder to make that happen than congressman mccarthy has. >> let me ask you about the senate and leader mcconnell. apparently, according to the same book. this will not pass, said to two long time advisers at the time the days after january 6th, quote, the democrats are going to take care of the sob for us. he said donald trump's behavior, quote, if this isn't impeachable, i don't know what is.

you are close to leader mcconnell, is that consistent what he was saying to you? i never heard him say things like that, he is a fairly closely held guy. at the end of the day, he didn't vote for impeachment and the democrats were trying to impeach somebody already out of office. i think my view has been, if president trump did anything that was illegal, there's a process for that, but you don't remove people from office who are already out of office. >> was it your gut reaction, senator, and again, you were involved in the broader conversations within your chamber that his actions were potentially worthy of conviction? apparently, mcconnell said he was considering that. did you consider that for a moment? >> no. >> you never considered convicting former president trump? one, it's not my job, and two, what i've said about that, whether it was president trump

or anybody who attacked the capitol, anybody who committed a crime there, planned a crime or committed a crime, there's a process for that and i'm not suggesting that president trump did either of those things, but there's a process for that, and it's not a political process. it's a judicial and legal process. i've been fully supportive of the justice department effort to prosecute people in the capital and also added to that, people who somehow were illegally planning activities on that day. >> did you ever hear leader mcconnell who said he believes there may be enough votes for conviction? >> no. >> let me ask you. because former president trump was out on the campaign trail last night, endorsed more than 140 candidates just last night. he repeated some of those mistruths about the election. do you think if he's the republican nominee, would you vote for him? >> well, that's long time before that, of course, i'll be out of politics by then. i'm not sure how active i'll be in politics in the future but i've always voted for the republican nominee in the past, and we'll see what happens. >> you've always voted for the republican nominee in the past. will you do so again no matter who the nominee is?

>> there's going to be another nominee, the democrat nominee. that's the choice you have to make. i suspect i'll support the republican nominee. >> will you commit to supporting the republican nominee, even if it's donald trump? >> it's a long time between now and then, with politics. so, i can't imagine that i won't. donald trump got elected because he satisfied people's need to send a message about their frustration with government. if he's the nominee again, that will because people are still frustrated with government and there aren't other republicans who meet that need. we'll see what happens between now and then. >> senator roy blunt, thank you for being here and your insights this morning. appreciate it. when we come back, the outlook for democrats in november's midterm election is bleak right now. senator elizabeth warren said she has a plan to fix that. i'll talk to the massachusetts democrat. that's next. reme

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welcome back. senator elizabeth warren ran her 2020 presidential campaign promoting the idea of big structural change and she hasn't given up on that idea. in the "new york times" this past week, the massachusetts democrat wrote, quote, democrats cannot bow to the wisdom of out of touch consultants who recommend we simply tout our accomplishments. instead democrats need to deliver more of the president's agenda, or else, we'll not be in the majority much longer. among warren's progressive goals, higher taxes for corporations and end to price gouging, some student debt cancellation and lowering prescription drug prices. elizabeth warren joins me now. welcome back to "meet the press." good to see you. >> thank you. good to see you. >> you write in your op-ed, senator warren, republican senators and broken institutions. you blame them for blocking the progress democrats had promised. but democrats control the house, the senate, and the white house. so why aren't democrats

responsible for breaking their own promises to voters, senator? >> my point is not to look in the rearview mirror. my point is to say, we've got nearly 200 days left between now and the election, and there are families who are trying to make the decision at the checkout line which groceries to send back because they can't afford them. there are millions of people across this country who are saying they are not ready for student loan payments to be turned back on. they simply can't afford them. there are millions of people across this country who say that prices at the pump, prices to try to buy a pound of hamburger have all gone up and they need help. democrats ran and always run on trying to make government work for working people. we've got nearly 200 days left. that's what we need to put our energy on. >> senator, i'm going to ask you -- >> if we don't, then we haven't been there. that's what we need to do.

>> senator, i'm going to delve into inflation, what you mentioned in a moment. i want to get down to brass tacks. what a deal might actually look like. senator manchin, of course, whose support you would need for any deal said he's open to supporting legislation with just three things. climate change, prescription drug costs and lowering the deficit. could you support a narrower version of a package that leaves out some of your priorities like universal pre-k and expanded child tax credits? >> look, some of the things we want to do are attack inflation head on and one of the ways we attack inflation head on is we bring down costs for family. so, for example, putting money into child care so that millions of women can go back to work, expands our capacity, expands the number of people in the workforce and that actually helps drive down inflation. >> senator, i understand those are your priorities, those are your priorities, and yet, negotiations have been stalled since december.

senator manchin, to some extent, senator sinema said they're not going to support one of the things you just mentioned because they are concerned it would add to the deficit, it would make inflation worse. would you commit to a narrower package, the package i just laid out, would you be able to vote for a bill that only included the three things? climate change, prescription drug costs and lowering the deficit? >> so the plan i'm trying to make is that we need to do more. yes, we need to do climate change. yes, we need to do prescription drugs and we need to make sure we're paying for it by making sure that giant corporations that make billions of dollars in profits and pay nothing in taxes are actually paying a minimum tax. and yes, amazon, i'm looking at you in that one and other corporations. look, we need to also authorize the ftc to go after companies that are price gouging. and we need to remember that it's not only what congress can do, it's also what the

administration can do. millions of people, student loan debt cancelled. mr. president, today would be a great day to cancel $50,000 in student loan debt for tens of millions of people across this country. my point is that we have nearly 200 days. and not just one negotiation going on, we should have multiple negotiations going on. there is a lot we can deliver for american families and we need to make that happen. >> let me ask you about student loan cancellation, which you have been talking about for quite some time. you want the president to do it unilaterally. two obama era economists warned against the president's extension of the student loan moratoriums during this time of inflation saying, quote, it's regressive and adding fuel to the fire of inflation. you are calling for more though. why does this spending make sense at this time when americans are desperate for

prices to come down? >> actually, what i'm calling for is to cancel a big chunk of student loan debt. >> they say that will add to inflation, senator. >> no, actually not paying student loan debts has already been baked in. but what matters is how we're going to be out there helping millions of american people. you know, keep in mind, 40% of the folks who have student loan debt do not have a college diploma. these are people who tried but life happens. pregnancies, working three jobs, mom got sick, had to move to another city, all those things but now they earn what a high school grad earns and they are trying to manage college level debt. in addition to that, we know that there's huge racial inequality here. african-americans borrow more money to go to school. borrow more money while they're in school. have a harder time paying it off when they get out.

it is the job of democrats. it is the job of the party in power to help make people's lives better. >> senator -- >> the president can do that one all by himself. >> senator warren, we learned this week in a leaked memo that bernie sanders is not ruling out a run in 2024 if president biden decides he's not running, we want to be very clear, president biden said he's absolutely running. here we are out with this op-ed. are you ruling out a run in 2024 should president biden decide he's not going to make another go? >> i'm not running for president in 2024. i'm running for senate. president biden is running for reelection. >> would you rule it out, senator? would you rule it out? >> you can ask it any way you want but i'm going to say the same thing. president biden is running in 2024 and i'm supporting him. >> okay. you heard my conversation with senator blunt about house minority leader kevin mccarthy. it was notable in your op-ed,

you yourself had sharp words about the democratic speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, for previous opposition to legislation that would ban members of congress from owning and trading stocks. now, of course, she said she now supports that legislation but it does raise the question. do you have confidence in house speaker nancy pelosi? >> yes. but let's be clear. one of the things that we should be doing as democrats is restoring some confidence in congress and the way we can do that is to ban all stock, individual stock, ownership, stock trading, buying, selling of any kind and that's true for any member of congress and true for their spouses. it's a step we can take right now to help restore some confidence that when people in congress act, not acting to try to line their own pockets, they're acting on behalf of the american people. that would be a good thing for us to deliver. >> let me ask you about something that everyone, really,

has been talking about all week. that is masks. as you know, this florida court ruled that the mask mandate was unlawful. there was a lot of confusion that followed that. now, of course, the biden administration is appealing that decision because the cdc has said that it's necessary from a health perspective. are you satisfied that the biden administration provided enough clarity on this issue when people really need it? >> i want to be clear about what's happening in the court case and that is, i believe it's important that it is the cdc and our health professionals who are well trained, who have all the data, who spend their lives in this area, are making the decision about what we need to do to protect public health and not a single judge off in florida. i think that's what the appeal is about. i don't think it's about getting masks back on people's faces right this minute. it's about making sure that over the long haul, when we don't

know what comes next in covid or, heck, we don't even know what comes after covid, we want to make sure that health care decisions and public health decisions are being made by public health officials. not a single judge sitting off by herself somewhere in florida. >> senator elizabeth warren, we covered a lot of ground today. thank you so much for joining "meet the press." really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. when we come back, the kevin mccarthy tapes heard round the world, or at least round the world of washington in mar-a-lago. the panel is next. too nobody told you? subway's refreshing with better ingredients, better footlongs, and better spokespeople. because you gotta you gotta refresh to be fresh

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heat makes it last. so you'll never sit this one out. new icy hot pro with pro-level contrast therapy. rise from pain. welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news white house correspondent carol lee, errin haines, editor at large of the 19th, political director for george w. bush, sara fagen, "new york times" chief white house correspondent peter baker. thanks to all of you for being here. great to see you. i want to start off by talking about leader mccarthy. we've all now heard the audio where he talked about the possibility of calling former

president trump and asking him to resign. he's out and basically saying this tape was taken out of context. here's what he had to say. >> no, i've never asked the president to resign or thought he should resign. what i was asked on the phone call was about the process of the 25th amendment, to walk through ifs, ands or buts. never in the process to ask president trump to resign. >> carol, as you know, leader mccarthy wants to become speaker of the house if republicans win back the house. does this doom his prospects? >> it's too early to know what it does to his ambitions to win speaker of the house. they have to win in november but president trump has a huge say in how this goes and a lot can happen between now and that vote. if it happens in january, the republicans that i've talked to are close to the president in the last few days, senate mccarthy on the edge but hasn't gone over the edge yet, but they leave open that possibility that the former president could eventually get there, and also would say that the president is surprisingly to them not angry

but sees this as, everybody was saying this sort of stuff at the time. as long as those who came around very early and got inside with him, then he's okay with that, but one interesting thing i found and the president came out in an interview with the "wall street journal" and said that he didn't like what mccarthy had to say but it was said. he was asked, will you still support him as speaker and he said, well, you know, is anyone else running and it was this shade. when asked someone close to the president about that, he always holds something in his pocket. we don't know what else is out there and he likes to dangle something for people who need him and that's what he's doing. >> carol hits at something that was a theme of the trump administration when we covered him that he may say something on day one it may evolve. what he's saying right now might not be how he feels in another month or so. >> yeah, evolve is a nice word for it. absolutely.

if you were kevin mccarthy's campaign manager, he wouldn't count on anything at this point. we saw kevin mccarthy do this in realtime. we saw him get up on the floor of the house during the impeachment after january 6th and said the president bears responsibility for this. he voted against impeachment but made very clear he was angry at the president at the time and then a week later, goes to mar-a-lago to pose for a picture and all this happiness and light again. so we had seen him flip-flop, in effect, on his view of former president trump. the tape brings it home in sharp relief, right? the thing i was struck by as much as anything else was for the president, it says a lot about this era right now that it was better for kevin mccarthy to be caught out in a lie, denying something he actually said than to be caught out saying something negative about president trump because he's more worried about that. >> sara, go ahead. >> as it came out, you see kevin mccarthy apologizing to president trump, then trying to kind of smooth over the relationship. this week really kind of brings into sharp relief where the

republican party is, right, from kevin mccarthy having to apologize and then trump at this rally in ohio with a very fervent base still and speaking to, you know, his, people who may have disagreed or said he was wrong or bear some responsibility but quickly coming around to his point of view and that they understand he still wields power over this party. >> let's hear his sound. he was out stumping for jd vance, one of the candidates in ohio and he made that point, i think, really so clearly. he just said it. let's take a listen and sara, we'll get your reaction. >> you know what, he's a guy who said some bad [ bleep ] about me. he did. but you know what? every one of the others did also. in fact, if i went by that standard, i don't think i would have ever endorsed anybody in the country, you want to know. they all said bad but they all came back.

>> the "he" he's talking about there is jd vance, sara, but what does that say about trump's script in the republican party right now? >> no doubt he's the dominant figure in the party and that will continue until the next presidential campaign. he may be a candidate for that and he may continue to be the dominant republican but somebody else might also emerge. it's just not in the interest of these candidates to pick a fight with trump. it hasn't ended well for anybody in office to go at president trump directly. so what you see playing out here by these candidates, by speaker mccarthy, hopeful speaker mccarthy is that in their political interest, there's no point in it so they quickly try to move on, and that's the smart political thing for them to do. >> what's interesting is this moment, he almost feels, and seems to be emboldened by it saying i can win them over. trump has always been quick to anger and quick to forgiveness. what trump measures is do you like him and like him in the moment and seems to sort of feed on the fight and enjoys the

fight and he enjoys winning and ultimately, what happens here is that he gets members who are at odds with him, sometimes over very legitimate things to kind of placate and come back around and in some ways, you can become more esteemed in president trump's eyes by doing all of that. >> looming over the culture wars, we saw it playing out this week in florida where they essentially voted to remove the special status of disney world for disagreeing with this law that bans discussion of gender and sexuality in school through the third grade, what critics call the don't say gay bill. carol, how much, as we talk about the midterms are culture wars going to factor in? >> there are republicans who think that the culture wars are a winner for them particularly on the transgender issue when it comes to parents. i spoke with the republican strategist over the weekend that said when it's culture wars and immigration, it's over, we win. there are republicans though that are concerned about the short-term benefits of that,

don't play out in the long-term. but democrats are struggling to come up with a response to all of this. >> why are democrats still struggling because we saw this, particularly in the virginia governor's race, for example, culture wars were front and center. and yet, terry mcauliffe, the democratic candidate for governor struggled to find his footing with how to address it. >> republicans know that democrats don't have a response to the culture wars, right, so they're continuing to do this. whether it's governor abbott out of texas or governor desantis out of florida. they know talking about these things that galvanize their voters is something that has been played to effect, it is a feature, not a bug of the republican play book going into november. >> all right, and we do have much more to discuss coming up. the battle over mask mandates. who gets to make the rules? that's when we come back. ck e fr! the only thing fresher than their bread is the guy reading this. subway keeps refreshing

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welcome back. we do want to note that in france today, a struggling president emmanuel macron is up for reelection. his opponent is the far right marie la pen, a french figure but now a shot at winning the presidency. le pen is critical of nato. admirer of vladimir putin and could compromise the support of the west. watching very closely this election. >> we don't have exit polls from the election. president macron with a lead around 13 points. likely to win this round, but the fact that she could get to 42, 45 or some of the votes says a lot about where france is and

russia, i'm sorry, europe is right now in this confrontation with russia. there's a lot of sentiment out there that is not in keeping with the unified tone of the nato against russia and that's a worry for president biden and the west. >> add it to the list of crises and complications of the biden administration is dealing with right now and sara fagen, i spoke with senator warren about the mask issue this week, the fact there was so much confusion in what to do in the wake of this florida decision that the biden administration has now appealed. >> we're at a point in this pandemic, two plus years in, where the public is exhausted and confusion has been a theme throughout this entire pandemic where we've seen the cdc and government, both administrations, put out pretty conflicting advice. the public gets on a plane, half eating or drinking, but we have to keep the masks on it doesn't make sense.

in the era of vaccines and boosters, people need to make their own decisions and these health bureaucrats should not be making these decisions and to allow this to continue, just, the public is exhausted from it. >> people may be done with covid but covid is not done with us and i think that that is something that is clear, but is not clear though is the guidance from our government at the federal, state, local level. we've got a lot of conflicting messages, right, and this is particularly concerning for parents and for other people who are vulnerable who really are looking for a consistent message on what they are supposed to do and this is taking us back to an era where there was a lot of confusion and people were really kind of having to navigate this on their own. >> you were in philly with real whiplash. >> in a matter of days, it felt like hours, you know, that the city of philadelphia had gone from restoring the mask mandate, becoming the first big city to do that and then no, no, never

mind, cases are down. we're going to take the mandate down. >> for the biden administration, just politically and practically, they put themselves in a box by saying that they were going to follow the science and let the cdc take the lead. they constantly put things in the cdc's lap, the other one of them, the justice department did that, waited for the cdc to say, yes, we want you to appeal this and then the grounds to have this authority going forward. when you talk to white house officials, there is this sort of frustration with the fact that they did put themselves in this box and now they're stuck with trying to manage it. >> they seemed flat footed this week. >> yes, they were. they were caught off guard by the decision. >> the situation in philadelphia, i think, is really what this is about. you have governments going in and imposing mandates or keeping mandates, and the people are upset. and this is politicians reacting to voters. this is what it is. we saw it in dc. all of a sudden, masks came off schools and it happened very

quickly. as cases are spreading, which they have been here, they're not going back. >> peter, final to you. how does this loom weigh in with the midterms because this is an issue not going away. >> it's not going away, to errin's point. covid's not done with us. i think we're done with mandates. they're happy to have it go away because politically, it's a mess but it hangs over everything. if covid is on the way back, especially if the cases are spreading, almost everybody, my wife's family has it right now, son has it, it means there's a continued damper on the public mood and spirit. they want to be past this and this has an impact on people in power. that doesn't help in an election if the public is sour about the way things are going in the country. even though you have a lot of good things you can talk about. >> fantastic panel. thank you all for being here. i really appreciate it. that is all for today. thank you for watching. we do want to say a very big happy birthday to chuck todd and chuck will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's

"meet the press." literally, every day as we speak, this is aid. if you're here in a few hours, this won't be here. it will be on a plane, on its way to some other means, on its way to ukraine. >> we're going to push as hard as we can, as quickly as we can to get them what they need. >> we want to see russian weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinding of things that it has done in the greater ukraine. >> the nation's top diplomat, and top military chief, with the highest level of visit to ukraine since the russian invasion began. meet with