. thanks for joining us on "the beat with ari melber." the "the reidout" with joy reid starts now the. >> good evening, everyone, we beginning truthout in france where emmacon emerged over the fascist marie le pen. his victory was never quarantined, but as 8:00 p.m. rolled on macron was declared the clear winner with roughly 58% of the vote. le pep's loss despite effectively clawing her way to the top by soft anything her politics and re-branding her party was a direct rebuke to the

growing ethnonationalism spreading throughout the country. take a look at hungary where viktor orban was re-elections after turning hungary into a white christian state that bans gay marriage and attacks liberal institutions, the press and controls the judiciary system. it should come as no surprise that le pen has received the backing of not just russian banks but of trump's most slovenly supporter, steve bannon, who was an active opponent of democracy. with all that said, le pen's loss is' resounding victory for democracy and for the french people who despite deep frustrations with the president shows democracy over extremism. the same unfortunately cannot be said here in america where the modern republican party is taking a page from orban's book and leaning hard in authoritarian socialism, where christian conservatives are waging a full-on jihad with those who disagree with their

anti-gay, anti-trans, ant immigrant views. look no further than the free state for some, florida, where ron desantis has waged a hypocritical war on diss anything, freaking disney. why? because they dare to push back on his hideous don't say gay law. last week the state legislature voted to dissolve disney's special reed creek district which allows them to control zoning and operate their own police and fire department and kept them from operating under other rules that other counties must use. i'm old enough to remember when the same republicans in 2019 had a heart attack when the san antonio council voted to remove chick-fil-a from the airport calling it their legacy of anti-lbgt behavior. flash forward to 2022 where florida republicans are proudly attacking disney's freedom of

speech and fake punishing them by effectively hiking taxes on hundreds of thousands of floridians to the tune of $160 million. that is almost a 25% tax hike on the people who live in disney's counties. on top of that they are passing $1 billion in disney bonding on every florida taxpayer to punish disney for speech. now naturally such a massive tax hike would make you think it is political suicide for desantis, but you dig a little deeper you realize why they just don't care. orange county and osceola county which would also be affected about chock full of democrats. orange county jerry demmings told an nbc affiliate that if we had to take over the first response and public safety components for reedy creek with no new revenue, that would be catastrophic for our budget in orange county. it would put an undue burden on the rest of the taxpayers in orange county to fill that gap, but, again, why would florida

republicans care? political punishment is the point. i mean, the guy who filed this legislative assault on disney, a state rep named randy fein, has also threatened funding for the special olympics, the special olympics over an argument with a school board members and because he didn't get invited to a dinner. yeah, it is that bad in the former sunshine state. representative charlie crist slammed desantis attacktics killing him am danger to society and a wannabe girl. today baby maga signed a bill that allows him to create his own police force that is tasked with pursuing election law violation. just lovely, the big lie will now have its own battalion of goons. i wonder who they will go after first. i think you can guess. joining my know is governor charlie crist of florida who is

campaigning for governor again, an office he previously held. congressman crist, thanks for being here. it's always good to talk to you. so just for those who think that i have -- what i just said is hyperbole, i want to quickly play for our audience this same man, representative fein, state representative fein, in a back and forth or two republicans, in a back and forth about the bill that punishes disney. take a look. >> is this bill not a direct result of representative roach saying if disney wants to embrace woke ideology it seems flitting they should be regulated by orange county. isn't that what this bill is? >> when you poke the bear or you kick the bee's nest sometimes issues come out, and i think that when the bee's nest got kicked based on how a guest in our state chose to comport itself, i think what ended up happening is the idea of special

districts were taken a look at. >> is there an opportunity for disney to change their mind and say we will disregard this whole woke agenda, we'll go back to what we originally dealt with, the state of florida, and would the governor then say okay, fine, you keep your status but let's talk -- we'll keep an eye own now. how does this play out for disney? a lot of people like disney and don't want to not like disanyanymore. >> sure, and, of course. >> the second speaker was the lieutenant governor of florida saying, yeah, sure, if they change their ways, maybe we'll change our mind and this idea of you poked the bear and now we're going to take a new look at special districts. they didn't, governor, did they, because they only took a look at one special district. they didn't go after daytona. they didn't do g after nascar, didn't go after the build, just this one. >> you're absolutely right. this is punitive and intentional and it's bullying.

disney can't express their right to free speech in the sunshine state anymore? i mean, this has got to be unconstitutional number one under both the united states constitution and the florida constitution. it is outrageous and then the notion that the governor is saying, yeah, you know in, a press conference where he signed the bill last week, are you doing this to like take out punishment upon them and he goes, yeah, that's what we're doing and just the -- to brazenlied a knit like that, you know. usually you would be maybe a little more subtle, but not this fellow, and it's -- it's unbelievable. you're a floridian, former floridian, and, you know, people in florida are good people. they are decent people. they are kind people. they deserve better than this, and it's -- it's disappointing, and it's heartbreaking. i wear these yellow wrist bands every day, and they say practice the golden rule every day which simply means do unto others as would you have done unto you. well, if -- if ron desantis, our current governor and i hope soon

not, ever learned the golden rule he's already evidently forgotten and that's astonishing to me, that you have this kind of attitude, but i think i've figured it out, joy. i think what's going on here is that governor desantis is so laser focused on the 2024 republican presidential primary and going against donald trump, he's trying to out-trump trump and doing these kind of things. he signed into law recently the most anti-abortion bill in florida history. he's gone after lbgtq kids. i mean, african-americans who want the right to vote openly and freely in the sunshine state, that's been made more difficult by legislation that he has signed, taking away drop boxes in minority communities throughout florida and also making it more difficult to use mail-in voting. fortunately a federal court already took that down, but they passed another one this session so we'll have to go to court

again to try to stop these things but it's one thing after another. it's almost like he goes to bed every night thinking what group can i punish tomorrow, women, african-americans, lbgtq, you name it, and he's not just gone offer disney in an anti-business fashion, you know. the florida chamber of commerce ought to back me instead of desantis for what's going on. >> yeah. >> and i'm more pro-business, but this isn't the first time. he did it to the florida cruise industry, too. >> right. >> because they wanted to make sure that people who came on the boats didn't have the virus. >> right. >> it's unbelievable, really. >> and i mean the thick is, you know, you used to be a republican and used to be a pretty solid principle among republicans that you don't choose winners and losers, that the government shouldn't be doing that and they shouldn't be using the tax code and the power, the raw power of government to pick wirps and losers. i'm going to put that graphic back up. there are 1,800 special tax districts in florida. this is not a thing that only disney has. they went and exorcised one, and

that one is where universal studios and seaworld and disney are, and if you could just explain as somebody who has had to administer the state as governor, when you do that and then you transfer the need to improve those disney rides and police and do fire services for disney, that then is the responsibility of orange county and of osceola, right? >> right. >> this is literally going to raise the taxes of every floridian and the whole state because the bond debt is now on the state. >> the whole hit is going to be about $2 billion. think about that. this will be the largest single tax increase in the history of florida under governor ron desantis. you know, what happened to less taxes, less government, more freedom from the republican party? apparently it's out the window. >> yeah. >> because it's all about authoritarianism. this is democracy versus autocracy, and i'm in favor of democracy. he tried to tear it down with

his anti-democracy legislation as it relate it had our voting rights. >> yeah. >> i served with john lewis, a wonderful civil rights leader who used to always tell me and any of my colleagues in congress who would listen, charlie, let me tell you something. the right to vote is precious. >> yeah. >> in fact, he said it's so precious it is sacred, something from god. it gives us our right to freedom, our right to express ourselves, whether you want to protect a woman's right to choose, lbgtq children or disney's right to free speech. it's unbelievable what he's doing, it really is. >> you're a member of congress now. i mean, the other thing that went somewhat under the radar, unfortunately, is that this governor demanded that his sycophant legislature literally eliminate val demings' district and al lawson's district, it's very particular, it's the same area, so now this part of orange county will lose its black congresswoman to be replaced presumably by a republican who he'll draw some crazy looking

district to force a republican in there, so he's taken away black representation, as you've said. he's taken away of the and the for african-americans to vote and passed this police force that will be sikhed on black floridians to intimidate them out of even being able to vote. do you even recognize florida at this point given what they ever doing attacking lbgt kids, teachers, threatening teachers were $10,000 fines and lawsuits just for teaching. >> yeah. >> do you even recognize florida at this point. >> no, i don't, i don't. i don't recognize it under his leadership, but i do recognize my florida, and i know more floridians are good people, just like you, and just like me, i hope, and -- and the notion is that they deserve better. real floridians don't want this. they don't want anti-women, anti-gay, anti-african american, anti-environment, anti-democratic leadership. they want to have someone that

can bring people together and make florida rise. we're the sunshine state. it's unconscionable. it's not right. it is not sacred as john lewis would say. it is absolutely the wrong thing to do. we deserve better. we better get better. help me beat him, charliecrist.com and we'll make a difference and bring the sunshine back to florida. >> we are out of time, but i have to snow that representative jones, a friend of the show, did endorse you today. >> he did. >> are you going to be able to motivate african american voters, voters of color, teachers, all of these constituencies that are being targeted, do you have a plan to motor vote those folks to actually fight back and vote? >> absolutely. well, listen, val demings will be our senate candidate so i love her and she will help us with minority turnout extraordinarily well. two of my three sisters, joy, were teachers. i'm a florida kid, graduated florida state university. i think you need to be a

graduate of a great state university in florida instead of where ron went harvard and yale. you know, we need somebody who knows florida better than he does and that's what i think is going to turn it out. floridians want somebody who cares about them, who cares about, you know, the issues that they are dealing with like, you know, high property taxes, high property insurance. >> yeah. >> you can't even buy a home in florida unless you're a millionaire or a billionaire. >> yeah. >> and those are the people who are supporting desantis. regular people are helping us. that's why we're going to win. it's all about people. not about money. >> high taxes that about to shoot way up, floridians. pay attention. congressman charlie crist who is running again for governor of florida, and i say a very nice guy. nice guys finish first. we'll see what happens. really appreciate you being here. >> coming up next here on "the reidout." we of eve seen the elon musk story before. the nation's wealthiest citizens not content to sit on their fortunes, tuesday to seek power and to exert control over the public square.

plus, a dramatic show of support for ukraine from two top biden officials, with defense secretary austin saying that ukraine can, can win this war. and the mark meadows text messages, the panic on the right as their insurrection turned violent. the coordination with right wing media and margie q greene's misspelled reference to martial law which last week said she couldn't israel. huh. "the reidout" continues after this. ael. huh. "the reidout" continues after this

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let me take you back to america's gilded age in the late 19th century. it was a time of rapid economic growth but also a period of growth materialism and blatant political corruption. the wealthy grew enwealthier and looked to wrestle control ever every facet of humanly. one of the most powerful and corrupt robber bearons of the time is saiding there at the table, financier jay gould. gould used every underhanded trick from bribing public officials to massively manipulating stocks. he had control of a railroad line and newspapers and for a time he single-handedly controlled america's telegraph wires, and with those wires jay gould controlled the flow of information in this country. fast forward to today. you can make the case we are living in a new gilded age where you have people with extraordinary wealth like elon mask and axios points out

looking to follow in the footsteps of people like gould, and they want to control everything from the courts to politicians to the leading forums for information-sharing, and today it became official. twitter accepted musk's $44 billion offer to buy the company and put control of this dominant social media platform into his hands. it is not enough for the richest man in the world to try to replace agencies like nasa and send people to near space. he also wants to control what he calls the town square. >> twitter has become kind of the de facto town square so it -- it's really important that people have -- have both the reality and the perception that they are able to speak freely within the bounds of the law. >> now elon musk will own the town square. with me now publisher of "the ink" and author of "winners take all, the elite charade of changing the world."

so my friend, what does mean for elon musk to privately own the town square? >> it's such a good analogy and love that setup except i would make one it is analogy from the period that you talked about. those people 100 years ago did not own portals into a billion people's minds in realtime. the nature of the technology is now such that if you are now elon musk or a mark zuckerberg or others, it is not just owning a newspaper other owning -- and owning the railroads and owning this and that, it is specifically this particular kind of straw into the live consciousness of a very large chunk of humanity at all times. there's studies that have been shown this power can be used to tilt elections if someone were to want to use it this way so what you're seeing right now, and i call it "winners take all" for a reason. this is the winners take all playbook. >> yeah. >> first, you just try to make

money. that's the foundational overriding goal, but if you just do that, you're going to have regulatory pressure, you'll have people mad at you after a certain point and you'll have all kinds of problems, so what you do is you take the spoils of that money-making and you buy political influence in washington. you fund super pacs and fund things like the federalist society, different approaches that you know well and then you start investing in rigging the discourse. it's not enough to rig law and policy. you want to rig the discourse. you want to make sure that you control the terms on which people can talk back at you. >> right. >> i'm curious what the safeguards are at twitter after this acquisition? do people get to read the dms of the leading dissidents and journalists and regulators in the world? i have dm'd with people who have worked in governments, people who have critical positions relative to all kinds of authority. i'm curious. what are the safeguards

preventing the world's richest man? i'm sure there are some. i would love to hear what they are, but this is truly the winners take all world where not as you said not one form of power but every form of power is used to purchase the next and up to the point where we're fully encircled and democracy itself is suffocated. >> you know, i would -- i would doubt that there would be very many safeguards. elon musk calls himself a free speech absolutist. first of all, that's bs because he has a long history of literally threatening to sue bloggers who say things he doesn't like about him or posts things about tesla he doesn't like. his history is it's free speech, sure, but don't say anything about me i don't like because i will sue you. he's also showing -- i think it's a tell and i don't know if you agree with this. the right has made multiple attempts to remake twitter. they have had getter, doesn't sign like a porn game. they have parlor and had gab which is full of nazis and it doesn't work because they don't want to talk to each other, they

want to talk to us. they want to talk to the culture. if they were where black twitter was not, they would be sad because they couldn't attack black people. elon musk tweeted today i hope that even my worst critics remain on twitter what is that's what it means. charles blow had already beaten him to the door to say i'm done. a lot of people wanted to get on countersocial because it's moderated and you can't attack people. do you see this as a tell that you can't recreate twitter, twitter without us, the regular people, isn't useful or entertaining to them? >> i think that's very true and i also think this free speech issue needs to be unpacked because like a lot of issues promoted like this, the actual think they are saying is not the usual issue. the actual issue, there's a peel like elon musk and certainly widespread on the familiarist right that this is a suppression

of ideas offer the right by social platforms and institutions. what's been going on there's been modest, pretty inadequate, modest slight efforts by some of these platforms to solve an actual free speech issue which is in a so many human beings feeling so unsafe and many, being bullied, being harassed and pittsburgh pirated and doxxed for being a female of color or both that you're actually limiting the amount of free speech out there because people don't want to play in that kind of sandbox. these platforms have understood that and have made faint modest efforts to address that by saying let's not -- let's not have as much misogyny and bullying, let's have a lot of it

vrm firm. p many of you know twitter that's been never shut down. they tried. elon musk lives in a world where the only kind of spree speech is white mench saying what they want to say. speech actually freer when everybody, not anybody but everybody has the opportunity have an account, table have a phone and can tweet but can feel safe, can know that they are not going to get harassed and can know that they are not going to get outed or pouted on by the astro it youred of stands of some very rich man, and this future in there would be actuallyin more equitable and terrifying teach: >> indeed there. was a time when anybody who was jewish on twitter if you

expressed views anywhere to the left of donald trump you would get into the oven response and people literally follow you so ten section after recall everything. without the ability to assault they are not entainted. >> correct. >> so they want to abuse and in their mind that's free speech, because as you said a certain type of person might be able to a race you. baby, you don't have the right to a race anybody. people can leave. they can chase to not in that space anymore and some people will. look, if i all want to follow me on countersocial i'm@joyanreed. there are still places can you go. still ahead, two top u.s. officials travel to kyiv in a show of solidarity has russia's push into ukraine's industrial heart line grinds on.

we'll be right back. ♪♪ s on we'll be right back. ♪

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we're going to do everything that we can. >> we don't know how the rest of this war will unfold, but we do know that a sovereign independent ukraine will be a lot longer than vladimir putin son the scene. >> secretary of state blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin met with president volodymyr zelenskyy over the weekend where they promised hundreds of millions of new aid to the country. president biden will nominate a new ambassador to ukraine, a position that has been vacation for three years since marie yovanovitch was chased out by the trump administration. this comes as russia continues its assault after the unprovoked and terrorist war. they are attacking multiple fuel and rail systems in central and western ukraine, and they continue to bear down on the beseenld port city of mariupol where the last of the ukranian resistance in the city, about

2,000 fighters, are holding up and holding on to a soviet era steel plant, the plant where 1,000 civilians are also sheltering has been continually pummeled by russia. while russia continues to have claimed to allow a humanitarian corridor out of the plant today ukraine contradicted that saying they haven't actually provided a safe passage into ukranian controlled territory. joining me now is former ambassador to ukraine william taylor with the u.s. institute of peace. i would be remiss, sir, if i did not cred et you with the idea that the first mentioned on the show that you thought the right people to visit ukraine, the right person to visit ukraine was secretary of defense lloyd austin and he did that along with secretary of state antony blinken. what do you think the significance of that is? >> it's as you said. it's a demonstration of the strong support of the united states for ukraine, and this support is not just rhetoric.

this support takes the form of weapons. this support takes the form of actually people being there in kyiv shaking hands with the president. this support is now going to be led by an ambassador out there, first time as you say in three years, a fully confirmed ambassador. that said there's been a good charge out there. she's done a fine job but it's good to have a senate-confirmed ambassador out there, so this trip has demonstrated that strong support and i'm sure the ukranians appreciate it. >> let me play a little bit of what lloyd austin said. this teamed really significant about what we would love to sing long term vis-a-vis russia. >> we want to see russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kind of things that it has done in invading ukraine, so it has already lost a lot of military capability and a lot of -- a lot of its troops quite frankly, and we want to see them not have the capability to very

quickly reproduce that capability. >> if and hopefully when ukraine wins this war, will one of the mistakes that russia made having essentially allowed the west to make ukraine's military more modern? >> joy, you're exactly right. let's be clear. it's when the ukranians win this war and just as secretary austin said, this has already hammered the russian military. i understand that the russian military has used about 70% of all of its precision-guided weapons. the number of russian soldiers that have been killed. we're talking about 20,000 according to the ukranians and others put the number at a very high level as well so they have already lost soldiers. they are using up their equipment. they are already down, and so secretary austin is exactly right. that said, we want the ukranians to win soon. we want the ukranians to win and push the russians out so that

they can regain their sovereignty. >> yeah, and what -- i would be remiss if i did not ask you what do you think is the impact and import of emmanuel macron being re-elected and particularly defeating a very pro-putin marie le pen? >> you said text actly. you said it exactly, joy, that is had the other person won, it would not have been good for the ukranians or for europe or for france for that matter, and so macron has been active. he's been very supportive with ukraine. he has recognized his -- his failure, frankly, to get putin to do anything serious, and so macron is the right person for this job right now in france. >> yeah, indeed. it's a good weekend definitely. we were all watching that french election with bated breath. ambassador william taylor, thank you, sir, really appreciate it. up next, new insights into republican efforts to overturn the election ant events of january 6th, from thousands of

texts sent and received by trump's former chief of staff mark meadows. we'll bring you the latest after this. meadows we'll bring you the latest after this allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. (all): all hail, caesar! pssst julius! trump's former chief of staff your tea trump's former chief of staff oh hi caesar. we were just talking about you.

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♪ baby got back by sir mix-a-lot ♪ unlimited cashback match... only from discover. new poligrip power hold and seal. clinically proven to give strongest hold, plus seals out 5x more food particles. fear no food. new poligrip power hold and seal. there's a pattern that we often see in the republican party. it's an illness really, driven by the urge to end democracy rather than turn away from trump. where do-nothing republican leaders say one thing in private and quite another thing in public. the latest receipts revealing such behavior obtained by cnn

come in the form of 2,300 text messages sent and received by trump's chief of staff mark meadows between election day 2020 and president biden's inauguration. the trove of text range from conspiracy theories to reaction to the capitol attack coming the from the usual suspect, trump's family, cabinet members, republican party leaders and elected trolls like marjorie taylor greene who on january 17th, days before biden's inauguration texted to meadows, quote in, our private chat with only members several are saying the only way to save our republic is for trump to call for martial law with marshall spelled wrong and another said sean hannity taking direct orders from meadows on coverage. hannity texts meadows to ask about turnout in north carolina. meadows said stress every vote matters. get out and vote. yes, sir. any place in particular we need

to push? >> yes, sir. what was that part again, sean, not being told what to say on your program? now keep in mind this is the same mark meadows who was told that plans to try to overturn the election using so-called alternate electors were not legally sound and that the events of january 6th could turn violent. this according to a court filing from the house panel investigating the attempted capitol coup. even so meadows pushed forward with the march that led to the assault on the capitol. here we are again. the right telling us one thing in public only to say something in private text, conversations and phone calls, only to deny the wrongdoing. better yet pivot and dodge which is exactly what house minority leader kevin mccarthy did today when asked about the leaked audio where he is heard saying that he would advise trump to resign following the mob assault on the capitol. >> i never told the president to resign. it was a conversation that we had about scenarios going

forward, but that's not really what critical 15 months ago. what's credit sal is what's happening on the border now. >> when text messages reveal that you plotted a coup and audio reveals you're a liar deflect against the backdrop of a fake border crisis. re cans, we know all your tricks including how to revive the big lie just in time for the election, and that is next. g lie just in timeor f the election, and that is next her y? because after all these emails my eyes feel like a combo of stressed, dry and sandpaper. luckily, there's biotrue hydration boost eye drops for instant moisture. biotrue uses naturally inspired ingredients. and no preservatives. try biotrue (music) who said you have to starve yourself to lose weight? who said you can't do dinner? who said only this is good? and this is bad? i'm doing it my way. meet plenity. an fda -cleared clinically proven weight management aid for adults with a bmi of 25-40 when combined with diet and exercise. plenity is not a drug - it's made from naturally derived building blocks and helps you feel fuller and eat less.

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♪ we could walk forever ♪ ( ♪♪ ) ♪ walking on ♪ ♪ walking on the moon ♪ ♪ some ♪ ♪ may say ♪ ♪ i'm wishing my days away ♪

♪ no way ♪ ♪ walking on the moon ♪ democratic congressman jamie

raskin, who is a member of the committee investigating january six, had a front row seat to the violence and mayhem of the january 6th attack. remember, he was there as maga goons try to barrel into the chamber. but at the moment that he describes as a chilling was when former vice president mike pence refused to leave the capitol as insurrectionists stormed the building. >> he uttered what i think are the six most chilling words of this entire thing i have seen so far. he said, i'm not getting in that car because the secret service agents who presumably are reporting to trump's secret service agents were trying to spirit him off of the campus and he said, i'm not getting in that car until we count the electoral college votes. he knew exactly why this inside coup they had planned for was going to do. >> joining me now is christina greer, associate professor at

fordham university. and -- at a former u.s. attorney. joyce, i want to go to you first because that is chilling and even when i first heard the story that when you heard that mike pence literally looked at those secret service agents and said i'm not getting into the car. there is one secret service agent that he trusted. the rest, he said i'm not getting in the car with these people. the more that you hear about the context of that, the more chilling it is. what does it say to you? >> you know, the basic secret service protocol is to get one of their protect east out of the theater that is dangerous. if something is going on. you have a violent insurrection at the capitol, the secret service instinct is going to be to take their protect ease and get them out of dangerous path. i think what we're entitled to hear, quite honestly, it is an explanation from mike pence of what he thought when he said those words and it should be public, it should be in hearings that the january six committee conducts. i know we have seen the reporting that he doesn't believe that he should testify.

and he should not have to. but i am reminded of a certain former secretary of state spent 11 hours testifying to the benghazi committee. i think mike pence can tell us the truth about what happened, what he knew, and what he meant when he uttered those words. >> right, because christina, there are two ways to play that scene. one, it's that mike pence is being valiant. and saying i'm not going to happen in the capitol while this is going on. i want to stay do my job. the other one is, oh, i know what they're going to do. i know that their plan is to get me out of the way and have grassley sit in my seat because chuck grassley is going to throw the election to trump. somehow there is knowledge that he understands what the plot is, right? those are the two ways to look at it. >> absolutely. and drawing, keep in mind, mike pence was very due to fall to president trump for four years. so, he knows the extent to which president trump began to unravel, especially after he lost to joe biden. he knew that he was definitely not willing to step down. and don't forget, on january

6th, so many of those protesters, insurrectionists, and traders to our nation, we're calling on hanging mike pence. so, he cannot trust that the president would stick up for him and protect him. i agree with everything that i said, but the only thing that i would slightly disagree with joyce is that we cannot trust mike pence to tell the truth. he carried donald trump's water for four years. so, ideally, it would be great if we had a vice president we could get on the stand to explain what his thought process was. but we saw mike pence lie consistently to go in lockstep with donald trump time and time again. so, i don't think we can expect any honesty out of anyone from that administration anytime soon. >> it is interesting. he was the victim, just like everyone else, there is a news drop to hang him. and yet he seems, for whatever reason, refusing to say anything. he can't possibly think he has a future in republican politics but he is a mom and it is questionable why. this is from the new york times. there's a filing that has new details about what's the white house was planning for on

january 6th and wet folks knew. testimony disclosed by the house committee, investigating the -- mark meadows, chief of staff, and former congressman talked about directing marchers to the capitol as congress certify the election. you know talk about this all the time. we're starting put the pieces together. if the white house is saying, we want marchers to go to the capitol, if marjorie taylor greene, who somehow couldn't remember it when she was doing her testimony, with literally tweeting, declare martial law, it is starting to seem like every single republican knew what the plan was. >> you know, this is the bright constitutional line that we are going to have to confront and i think the point for that is now because as americans, we have first amendment rights, not just for speech, but for assembly. we have the right to assemble in peacefully protest. and you can walk across that line into interaction and the central question here is what was the plan? who was involved in planning?

did it involve and plan to interfere with a certification of the electoral college count to interfere with the transfer of power? because if so, there is a point at which it is highly likely that it crosses over that first amendment divide into criminal conduct. even if it does not get that far, we don't know with all the evidence is out there. i think we have our suspicions about where that evidence lands. even if it is not technically criminal conduct, there is the secondary political question. do we as americans believe the people who would engage in the sort of conduct belong and elected office? belong on capitol hill. and the answer to that has to be a resounding no. that is why the work that the january six committee is doing to expose the truth is so important. >> and who they belong and governors mansions? david perdue at this weekend -- he is trump's choice to be governor of georgia. he is going after bryan king, who trump hates. he said on sunday that

definitively, in his view, the election was stolen. period. point blank. period. christina. which means, he is essentially saying that if he is governor, in 2024, he will make sure that the election is thrown in the right direction. that is the problem they have now. your politicians who are pledging to implement the big lie next time. >> absolutely. i mean, as joyce said, there is this line that so many elected officials are willing to cross. joy, what is really frightening is that he has a very strong chance of winning this primary. not only does he get the money, he has the support of donald trump, who is making the case to fellow georgians, that camp did not protect them against the election. he did not protect them and now they have a black and a jewish -- under girding so much of the ire that brian kemp is experiencing and was helping in this particular race. and not just the marjorie

taylor greene, but the josh hawley's -- physically supporting the protesters with his raised fists. there are so many republicans that just do not care about the rule of law or the constitution. and so, i am concerned about november 2022. and i am definitely concerned about november 2024, when there are so many republican elected people who are willing to be pledged to donald trump. or if trump decides not to ron, a donald trump two point oh, like the governor of florida. >> that is this plan, right? the challenge here we have is that you have multiple scores of republicans who are running, essentially promising that they will never let another democrat become president. that they will do whatever it takes. they're already pledging to do that. they might just be saying, that it might be asked to get them to vote for them a primary. or they might actually do it. let's go to one other thing. i will let you comment on this. you do now have donald trump in

contempt in new york. the judges have him in contempt in new york -- he is ordered to hand over the materials that letitia james is seeking. you'll be fined $10,000. do you think that gets enforced? and is there any other penalty that -- >> look, letitia james is an incredibly serious person and she has made that very clear throughout this investigation. this is a civil contempt, not a criminal contempt. that is why it is a monetary fine. and she could actually have asked the judge to impose more serious sanctions. you can be jailed for civil contempt until you hear the contempt by complying with court orders. she did not go there. i would look for her to a vigorously make the effort to enforce this. and even if there is the sort of situation, where trump tries to avoid paying the fine, it would be in his best interest just to pay the fine every day and let it go away. she will keep it on the front page every day that he is

holding himself above the law, that he is trying to avoid her inquiry into his corporate taxes. she will be, i suspect, vigorous in pursuing this. >> you know he is going to pay, it right? he is going to a sell up on us -- he is going to make his followers give him money and he is going to use their money. thank you both very much. chris hayes starts now. ris hayes starts now tonight on all in, -- scientists have a name for this kind of coup. -- >> new text messages and new filing from the january six committee, tonight, congressman jamie raskin on new revelations about the secret service, why mike pence refuses to leave the capitol with them and we are learning from thousands of text messages from trump's chief of staff, that showed refresh some fading memories. >> did you advocate for president trump to impose martial law as a way to remain in power? >> i don't recall. >>