new details as we come on the air over a house simultaneously it seems united and dried with house republicans meeting for the first time since the newly released audio recordings of kevin mccarthy came out. what the head of the january 6th committee is telling us about next step f steps. plus, why things got heated. also happening on the hill, the ds secretary with republicans questioning how he's handling immigration with new numbers showing more migrants at the southern border. he also -- to end title 42. coming up, we have the chair

joining us live one-on-one. we're also live in ukraine where officials are uncovering evidence of more mass graves in the city of mariupol. we're set to get an update from the pentagon this hour. any news from that, and you'll see it right here live. i want to bring in cnn sal va ka por to start us off this afternoon. let me start with you saha. there's a couple of buckets from these mccarthy comments that have made a lot of news and what we're hearing from the january 6th committee. they were told they would -- and i'm quoting here -- love to have mccarthy in front of the committee for a second time. >> they would love to have him. they have said that for several months, but mccarthy has made quite clear he's not going to voluntarily testify. the committee has one card to play, and that's a subpoena.

they have been very reluctant to do this with members of congress who have declined. of course, mccarthy sits at the run-up to the attack and the events of the attack and these new revelations show in stark detail just how disturbed mccarthy was at what he was seeing, how he was considering asking the president at the time to resign as a result of what happened as well as concerns he had that other allies have donald trump and congress were using rhetoric that could potentially insight violence. all of this is of high relevance to the january 6th committee. by the way, there's still no definitive account of that call that he was expected to have on that day. these are all highly relevant aspects to the committee's investigation. they want information, but they're unlikely to get it

without a subpoena. that's their only shot. >> you also, sahil, i know, as they left that conference meeting, some interesting details about what went down behind closed doors and the reaction mccarthy got from some of these members. >> that's right. that action including a standing ovation when he was in that room trying to explain himself and what happened in these private revelations. house republicans primarily above and beyond anything else just want to win the majority at this point. they don't want to all have to go home and answer questions about mccarthy and why there's a leadership change, and many house republicans secretly felt the same way mccarthy did in that moment. remember how hot tensions were when many of their lives were perceived to be in jeopardy, how angry they were at donald trump. before it became clear

republican leaders still stood with the president and most republicans ended up getting many line. so the reason some of them appear willing to let this go is if he has to go down with the ship, how many of them are going to have to answer questions as well about how they felt at that moment about donald trump. so at this moment, mccarthy appears safe in that position, and the most important statement relevant to him is was that has not arrived. we have not heard any criticism from donald trump turning on mccarthy. that would be the nail on the coffin. trump has a good thing going for mccarthy. that would be difficult to replicate with another leader. he didn't have that with paul ryan. he doesn't have that with mcconnell. >> let me bring you into the conversation here because jay martin alex in this peas, we have this audio that came out,

they write that of this dynamic that happened, that mr. mccarthy did not follow through on the steps republicans expected him to take. -- in the interest of advancing his own career. so talk to us about the advancement of kevin mccarthy's career here and what a lot of this is about, the potential that he wants to speakership if the republicans take back the house in midterms. >> yeah. he was denied the brass ring in 2015. he wants it. that's what he thinks about all the time. that's one of the reasons why he's so secure at this moment is because he's done a lot of fund raising, and he's done a lot of political favors for his own members and he's done hundreds and hundreds of trips and events and stocked up a lot of political chips inside the house republican conference just for a moment like this.

a couple of things. one, i think it's easy for mccarthy to reel against the press, and that's made it easier here was it was the new york times. they're liberal, they're out to get all republicans. and i think he's tried to use that and he claims he was misquoted and it wasn't accurate, and of course that's not true. mccarthy wants one thing, and that's to be speaker. that vote is january the next congress, if they're in the majority, and that's all he's focused on at this point. >> how about the dynamic with this heated moment between matt gates and steve that went down. saying in a tweet, mccarthy is not a leader. you look at gaetz, not particularly necessarily popular inside their own party in the halls of congress, right? so how much is mccarthy needing to walk the lines between them

and donald trump when it comes to the navigation of this? >> he really does have to. when you're speaker, that's the only -- on the board. with gaetz, he and mccarthy have a long feud going. it's fascinating could he get into it with scalise? he knows about political violence and knows what dangerous rhetoric is. now, the thing with marjorie taylor green that's so interesting to me is mccarthy's way when there's a controversy with these members is he kind of stalls when there's a big story. with gaetz under investigation for sex trafficking or marjorie taylor green, a number of issues. he doesn't let the press rail road.

he's had to do this a couple of times, they've worked out kind of an arrangement. he takes some heat for her, and then she owes him for that. so i -- you know, this is how he works it. he tries to make it all an inside thing, and he stalls. he's playing for time. when there's a new york times story happened, congress wasn't here when the first story broke, which helped him. when they got him, he had already worked the phones and his members. now, let's just say mccarthy is secure for the moment. there's eight months between now and a potential speaker vote, and a lot can happen in eight months. >> thank you both very much. we're going to stay on capitol hill because we're also watching this hearing on the department of homeland security budget facing some pretty tough questions on whether to lift title 42. that covid policy put in place

under president trump that lets the u.s. kick out migrants seeking asylum without hearing those claims. >> the question is very simple. what information do you have in your possession that your front line agents who risk their lives every day and some of them give their live every day that you have or don't have that you will lose some control of the border at least when title 42 is lifted? >> we have a plan that we have developed and we have been preparing to institute, and we have been implementing since september of this past year. >> nbc's alley is on capitol hill. >> yeah. this is not the only hearing that's going on about this. even this week, we have multiple cabinet secretaries from the biden administration for a variety of issues. for democrats especially up here

on the hill, title 42 has been the talk on everyone's lips because democrats are vexed on what to do about this going forward if there's a real divide in the party, though certainly moderate and progressive lines are the debates. you're seeing democrats who have tough races in 2022 taking stances for keeping this policy in place, putting them in line with some republicans, and what it leads to, especially on the senate side is some consternation about how they're going to move forward with this. it's also hanging up a covid relief bill before it went on break, so all these hearings factor into that larger debate. what we saw is that it wasn't just about title 42 but about the larger border problem at large. he tried to continuously make the point that when it comes to title 42, they do have a plan in

terms of winding it down, but they do expect to see a surge at the border and that comes after we've already seen months of record numbers of people coming illegally into the country. that's something republicans seized on. that's not the only kind of immigration that's happening right now. there were questions about ukrainians and how best for them to come into this country, so a wide-ranging issue on the topic of immigration. >> alley, thanks. let me bring in conman, democrat from california and chair of the -- caucus. thanks for being on. as alley laid out, you have some republicans not satisfied with the answers they've gotten when it comes to what the white house, what the administration will do once title 42 is lifted. are you satisfied with the plan in place now? >> well, it's a good plan.

it has to be implemented. we're going to need bipartisan support to ensure we get the resources needed to improve border efficiency, border management and address the root causes of migration. but all along, the republicans have blocked and voted against any reasonable solutions to the border situation because it's more expedient. i don't think they'll will be happy because it's their benefit to have political theater on this issue. >> there are some democrats who have concerns about lifting title 42. do you share the concerns of those fellow democrats, and what was your message to the president when you and your members of your caucus met with him at the white house? >> it is our position that title 42 policy is inkeed a public emergency health that should be dictated by the science.

it is not a policy for border management. therefore, we shouldn't use it to manage the border. we should be able to -- and look. the american residence cue plan was one of our greatest successes, and with the successes of biden administration, the transmission numbers are much lower. we have proven quarantine policies that work, vaccines that are ready available, and so in that regard, we should continue to lift title 42. that was our request to the president. in addition, we should augment and move forward the plan for border management, to modernize our border with digitizing of records to ensure that there are enough immigration judges, that we have enough social workers, caseworkers to ensure they get back into the court to hear their cases, and also address the root causes.

these cyclical patterns must stop. people are leaving because of the conditions in their home country, the lack of transparency, the poverty, the climate changes, so we need to create a system and act now in order to put an end to the cyclical migrations to the united states and work with our international partners. look. the plan is there. the effort is there. we need republicans to put up or shut up and make sure they come to the table and fix some of these solutions with us. we've seen great improvements already, and we're expecting to continue. what we don't want to do is go back to the time where republicans were in control where they used anti-immigrant hate and fear and cruel poll sis like ripping children from the arms of their mothers to try to keep people from coming because that didn't work. >> we talked about your meeting with president biden in which

all of this came up as did student loan debt. it's our understanding based on what sources told us about that meeting that there was a request to extend the moratorium on student loans in order to extend something like $10,000 worth of student loan debt. it sounded like the president was receptive to that. do you believe the president will cancel 10 k or more of student loan debt soon? >> i really hope so. he seemed very receptive. we asked for at least 10,000 and more if possible. so you know, this is very important for the spanish congressional caucus because although spanish are undercounted in the number of students in higher education, they are overcounted in the amount of loans that are taken due to many of our family's social economic status and the need to take out loans, and that will inhibit a student from hitting the ground running with

a career. many students come home, they're the first generation college students, they not only have to pay off the enormous student debt, but they're also the breadwinners in their family. so this is preventing the students and professionals from spreading that into the community for community economic development as well. we're hopeful the president will do that, so we're going to keep a close eye and continue to work with the president to achieve this. >> did he give you any indication of a time line of when that might actually happen? >> i think that -- you know, i don't want to put words in the president's mouth, so i think that we should be hearing something relatively soon. relatively is a big word. it's very weigh i know. and i'm intentionally keeping it vague because i do not want to put any words in the president's mouth.

>> thank you for being with us. next up, we're live with the latest on the war in ukraine, including what the white house is getting ready to ask congress for. plus, we're getting updates on the war in the pentagon. including what she's now said about another huge development as an american is released from russian prison. we'll talk to the family of another american who is still detained and who are left wondering when it will be his turn to come home. our discussion with david wheland in just a moment. wheland in just a moment that'. but it's not just about savings. it's about the friends we make along the way. you said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember.

as we wait for that update from the pentagon, we're just getting some new information from our team who say administration officials are telling them the white house is getting ready to send a request to congress for more help to ukraine. apparently, a fairly significant request as early as tomorrow the the goal is for that amount of

money to last five months. this p coming today after mariupol said there's new evidence of a third mass grave site near the city. the european union and nato are accusing russia of gas blackmail. nbc's cal perry is in ukraine, and cal, this word of new aid to ukraine and again, this is just coming into us from our team in the last couple of minutes here, obviously going to be welcome for ukraine who are continuing to put up resistance in the south and east. >> reporter: absolutely. what the pentagon has said, and we heard this from general austin, they're trying to project five months into what they think the conflict is going to be and look like. that's why we saw that long-range artillery coming in. you have a situation in the city that is under siege where the russians are inspringed in that

city with wr the ukrainians haven't been able to counterattack. if the ukrainians can push those russians back, then that long-range artillery comes into play. we have this economic retaliation by russia where they're shutting off gas supplies to poland and bulgaria. poland saying, we have prepared for this. we have 70% of what we need already in storage. bulgaria is a different situation. they're calling this blackmail. they'll be struck and hurt by this far more, i think. then you have this other front that's opened up. a very mysterious one, these explosions. at least three in the last 24 hours. i'm going to finish here because it's where we started. it's where is this conflict headed. these mysterious explosions, they are not taking credit for it, but they're putting out -- and this is a tweet. he said -- two of those are

cities, one is the ship, and there's the tweet. how can we not believe in karma for the murder of ukrainian children. so not taking credit for these attacks, but striking explosions on infrastructure targets. now, it's raising, i think, a little bit of fear here in kyiv because we heard from putin that he would consider striking in the ukrainian capital again, in the capital of kyiv where i am if these explosions continue to happen inside of russia. he's blaming ukrainian forces. these are all questions we hope to have answered in the coming days. what is happening and has there been a second front open up where ukraine is attacking more efficiently inside of russia. >> good to see you. coming up next, the result of minnesota's two-year investigation launched after the killing of george floyd.

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are now filing an appeal against that state judge's ruling, remember the one rereported here on monday which holds the former president in contempt because he didn't hand over documents they wanted into an investigation into his business. danny, let me turn the floor over to you to explain what's going on here and what this really means for that $10,000 a day fine which could be short lived or not. >> what's happened here is the trump team is appealing two major items, number one that, judge we we did try to produce documents. you're overdoing it by saying we cleatly zarded the order. we produced what we thought was important. and in addition, the law requires some prejudice that has suffered by the office of the attorney general, and the trump team says there was no prejudice, they didn't show prejudice, and they didn't show all of this by clear and

convincing evidence. that's the basis of their appeal. as a practice issue, this is the kind of thing that's good for litigation. discovery rules depend -- our entire civil judicial system depends on the honor system. we have no way of knowing what the other party has in their file cabinet. so if they don't act so this is a really important order, and i think a lot of folks are looking at this not just in new york's civil litigation but beyond because litigants need to be held accountable if and when they play hide the ball with discovery. >> danny, thank you. nearly two years after the murder of george floyd, a human rights spanl releasing a pretty damming report accusing the government and police department of a pattern of racial discrimination. laying out the findings just a

few hours ago. >> we found a pattern of race discrimination in how officers used force and conduct traffic stops against people of color, particularly black community members compared to white community members in similar circumstances. >> george floyd was killed after the police officer placed his knee on his neck. he was convicted of murder and pleaded guilty to violated floyd's civil rights. can you get pretty concrete here? what realistically do these findings here mean for minneapolis in a practical and not theoretical way? >> this means they need to come to a court ordered agreement on the next steps, on what changes and the time line of those changes will be implemented on this report.

this report is about 72 pages long. it has a lot of specific examples in how the state is saying the minneapolis police department engaged in race-based policing. you see some of the specific examples right there on your screen. you say they used more severe force against blacks than whites. it says since 2010, of the 14 individuals the department has killed, 13 of them were people of color or indigenous. it also says they excessively cite black individualed with skrorderly conduct. there's an example of how they use social media to target black leaders, setting up fake accounts to criticize the naacp. it will be between the two parties to come to a court-ordered agreement. >> thank you. an emotional day today for families of loved ones still

held in russia as they take in the news of former marine's release. this is set to show the moment that reid was being brought to a plane for today's prisoner swap. nbc news cannot verify when, where, and under what conditions this was shot. he had been accused of -- he approached a thousand days in custody. president biden in a statement welcoming him home and pledging we won't stop until paul whelan and others join trevor in the loving arms of family and friends. he referenced paul whelan there. he's also a former marine. he was sentenced to 16 years in jail over accusations of spying. he's been held since december of 2018. then there's brittney griner. her agent writing about how her

community is doing. they're doing everything they can to get her home. trevor reid's parents calling his release a testament to a response to they were having separate conversations. if you have been watching the show, you know we have spoken with them several times. they talked about when they met with president biden, a long-awaited meeting. watch. >> we discussed our son. we told him about how he is as a person. we told him about his resolve as a marine and how he's acted as a prisoner of war, and i think he was impressed by that. we told him how we feel about prisoner swaps because if nothing else works, we've always been told everything's on the table. >> i want to bring in paul whelan's brother, david whelan. david, it's good to be with you. this is a day of mixed emotions

for you and your family. how did you find out about trevor reid's release, and what's been going through your mind today? >> we found out about the release the same way we find out about a lot of things, which is through the media. i'm thrilled for trevor's family and dispointed for mine. i don't think there's any other way to put it. >> can you explain more? i know you said in a statement earlier today that, quote, who gets saved is the president's choice. president trump wasn't able to make those difficult decisions, it may be that president biden is unable to make them either. can you explain what you mean by that? >> at the end of the day, the president of the united states is the leader. they are the decision-maker. they have the concern of all american citizens in their control, and they have to make choices. they close to make a concession with russia to allow trevor to come home, and not a concession

to bring paul home. it makes it difficult for us to know whether there is a choice, a decision that can be made to bring paul home or if he was one of the americans who may be left behind for many more years than they should be. >> i don't know if you've had a chance to see, she responded to your statement. i want to play for you what she had to say. >> our response is that we are going to continue to do -- the president is going to continue to do, our state department officials and negotiators are going to do everything they can to bring paul whelan home. >> do you believe this administration will do everything they can to bring your brother home? >> i do. certainly since president biden's administration has started last january, they have been very communicative, they have been a lot more transparent about the issues facing hostages, about how they can go about releasing hostages, and it's a difficult business, and i

think that the disappointment we feel today has more to do with the fact that paul is in russia, and trevor was in russia, and we thought all the people in russia would come home together, and that's not the case. each individual, no matter what country, is going to be a different problem, and sometimes it's going to be successful, and sometimes it won't. >> one of the factors that seem to come into play was trevor reid's health. his parents were concerned he was getting extremely sick, hunger striking, et cetera. how is paul doing? do you have any idea? what's the latest update you have gotten? >> i think physically he's doing as well as you can in a labor camp. i think mentally he's shattered. he had a call where he learned about trevor's release, and he said, why am i left behind? he is doing the best he can.

while we can support him before sanctions cause us not to be able to do so, he'll be able to buy fresh fruits and vegetables to support his health. he's been able to call our parents. for now, i think he's in as good of shape as he could be. >> can you tell me anything else about this call? i imagine it was a difficult one to make or maybe a mixed emotionally for your parents to have to call him and say, somebody's coming home, but it's not you. >> yeah. it was very difficult. and i think it would be a very hard thing for a parent to say, particularly when you're in your 80s and you know you might not be able to see your son again and have to tell him, you may have to rethink your hope. i think we all had hopes that the u.s. government in the way they presented the issue and communicated with us, was doing more. and i think we're really back where we were during the trump

years was that there's a lot of talk, there's been a lot of talk today on media. there that be support of congress with the passage of house resolution 336 today. but at the end of the day, it's talk if action is getting paul home, and i don't know that we're any closer to that. >> when you speak of talk, i think many of your family members have been asking to meet with president biden. do you anticipate that happening? >> the president gets to make those decisions, and so far, he has decided not to meet with us. the president is a busy person trying to deal with a war against a european alley, so it's hard to know. i think it's very disappoint for us to be in a state that we don't have any idea that we're any closer to getting paul home. >> what would your message be to paul if you could get him one right now? >> stay strong, stay focused. focus on the long haul.

because we don't have any hope that russia will give concessions that would allow paul to be free. >> thank you. i appreciate you sharing more about what this day has been like for you. i know a lot of folks are thinking about you and your family today. >> thank you so much. next up, an exclusive interview you will only see here by a proputin oligarch who made all his money helping the kremlin is now changing his tune and helping take on vladimir putin. g take on vladimir putin.

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>> one of the richest men in ukraine, dmytro firtash made billions in long-supported proputin political forces in kyiv. >> translator: to believe in 2022 in the center of europe that such a massacre can be taking place, no normal person can believe it. >> firtash has made a career of trying to bet on the right party, the right player. >> translator: i was never pro-russian, but you have to understand that i'm a business man. >> so now firtash is doing something he's never publicly done before, taking aim at putin. >> translator: he is never going to come out victorious. >> if you could pick up the phone and call him, what would you tell him? >> translator: it's time to stop. there will be no victory. the longer this war takes, the worse it will be for the russian people. >> do you think your safety is a concern?

>> translator: i don't have a choice. >> here in the u.s., putin is accused of conspiring to pay bribes aboard and is funding extradition in austria. nearly $174 million, firtash has been living at this villa under house arrest here in vienna. >> what do you say to the indictment against you? >> translator: 100% not guilty. >> in that case, there's a specific filing that says you're an upper echelon associate of russian organized crime. what's your response? >> i have discussed with you that we are in the middle of a criminal case. how improper that statement in open court was, and we've instructed mr. firtash not to dignify it by answer. >> that's his spokesperson.

firtash has other connections to pollties. rudy giuliani held up a me home in part of an effort to fight his extradition. the memo talking about hunter biden. >> your name came up in connection with the impeachment of then trump specifically in effort to dig up dirt on hunter biden. did you ever try to do that? >> translator: i never took part in the digging up of information whether it be on trump or biden. the fact that i'm being dragged into this whole situation connected to giuliani, i never met him nor by phone or in person. >> the u.s. says you're a criminal. they alleged you're in organized crime. your homeland has you sanctioned. why is it do you think so many people allege so many bad things about you? >> translator: you know, when you want to know something about a person, you should look at who his enemies are, and then you

can judge what this person is worth. >> firtash says he would rather go back to ukraine right now and fight if prosecutors would let him and experience what he calls, the new ukraine. >> translator: we have to say a big thank you to mr. putin, and i believe we should be building him a monument in the very center of ukraine because he turned out to be the only politician that in the last 30 years managed to unite the country as a whole. >> firtash says he spends his days focused on a 24 hour public service channel with ukraine. it's as if they teamed up to come up with a way to inform ukrainians of how to survive the war, the things they need to know day in and day out as that country has been attack under russia. he has a channel that has been broadcasting the same information on youtube, hoping to get information into that country. hallie, it was a very

interesting interview and a very interesting effort in reporting here over the last six years that got us to this point. >> years in the making i was going to say. it's a fascinating look, and i appreciate you bringing it to us on this network. still ahead, potential warning signs in the first poll taken after his endorsement from former president trump. s endorsm former president trump

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a new poll on the pa senate primary is adding to some questions about just how firm the grip is on former president trump on republican voters. remember, the former president in this race backs dr. oz. only 2% of pennsylvania republican voters say that endorsement gave them a more favorable view of oz and so far he's lagging behind david mccormick in favorability scores and who republican voters say they're more likely to support. joining me is the national political reporter for the philadelphia enquirer. thank you for being back on the show. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> you wrote about the boost dr. oz was getting while noting months of attacks on him have taken a toll as we see in these unfavorable view numbers and

unlikely to support responses and important to note that your takeaway from this polling has been it gave dr. oz a bit of an edge and only about a quarter of the republican primary voters not as much as people had thought. >> that's right. this was the counterpoint even when trump made the endorsement from a number of republicans who had been watching the race is even before that endorsement there had been months and months and tens of millions of dollars of negative tv ads aimed against mehmet oz. those were aren't going to just disappear with the former president's endorsements. those negatives are still hanging on to him and reventing him from breaking away from the pack even with this endorsement. so we'll see now. he's got a rally coming up next friday with the former president and we'll see if that amplifies the support so far, but it seems that the dave mccormick team did such a good job of attaching negatives to him that it's preventing him from running away

from now. >> it shows top tier emerging which is mccormick, oz and kathy barnette and fewer people would be unlikely to support her than dr. oz and they're neck on neck on that question, if you will, talk about those implications. >> yeah, there's been a theory of the case that mccormick and oz are spending so much money attacking each other that other candidates that if those two tear each other down for a third candidate to slide in and actually win the nomination, but someone would have to emerge from the rest of the pack and right now it's looking like kathy barnette might be that person. she's emerging as either the top of the second tier or the third part of that top tier, and she's doing it, you know, with just a lot of grassroots campaigning. she doesn't have the same kind of money as those top two do, but she's traveling the state a lot. she's up pressed people in her public appearances. the issue is she's not nearly as

well known as the top two are. >> right. >> the question is as people take a closer look at her does that support stay with her? >> i want to get you on the democratic side. give me your quick takes there, john fetterman came in with a big lead over his opponents. >> the takeaway is easy. the race is static. fetterman has kept his lead throughout and it's fetterman and kenyatta, and it doesn't look particularly close. jonathan tamari, thanks. appreciate it. thank you for watching msnbc. we have highlights on the show @hallieonmsnbc on twitter and you can find me on show number two tonight and every week night at 5:00 eastern. "deadline white house is next after the break. "deadline white house is next after the break.

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♪♪ ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york and an incredibly revealing moment today on capitol hill that shows that the price of political survival in today's gop is complicit, and the party's ongoing cover-up of the deadly january 6th insurec. the caucus met for the first time since alex burns and jonathan martin released audio of a phone call between house republican leaders in the aftermath of the january 6th attack. audio that we played on this show yesterday of what kevin