alone. >> she responds when you see children wearing masks as they play should be no different from a response to seeing someone beat a kid and walmart. call the police immediately. >> a new scary variant is another liberal cover-up for joe biden's ongoing and many failures. >> very responsible indeed. coming up this hour on the mid house on show, elon musk's fundamental misunderstanding of democrats and republicans, my final sign straight. then, expect a political writer who thinks trump can be stopped in 24. just by calling him a loser, repeatedly. can really be that simple? i'm not sure. plus, five years after danika became the first openly transgender legislature, lgbtq rights and more peril than ever. she joins us to discuss the fight, i had.

>> for decades, now americas grand old party has benefited heart to the right on every issue imaginable. and not just to the right, but to the extreme paranoid conspiracists fringe of american public life. the conservative movement as a whole has become infinitely more reactionary, xenophobic and authoritarian. i thought that was undeniable, that everyone who is sane and sensible new this. everyone, apparently, except the world's richest man, elon musk, billionaire love child of a four-time forum, zambian emerald mind, is in the process of taking over twitter. and i'm sorry to say, handing that platform on a platter to the far-right. you don't believe me? think musk is a genius in all

walks of life, that he's a complicated complex character, with no obvious politics? sorry to disappoint you. in fact, some of you may be familiar with a certain viral mean that must shed a few days ago. the thrust of the meme is rather simple, between 2008 and 2021, america's political left has moved drastically further to the far left. but america's political right hasn't shifted one inch. it is unfortunately a far from novel, though it is and argue that routinely whining about the election of bill maher, sam harrison andrew sullivan. it's that go-to darling talking point of very particular tribe of mostly white, mostly male, mostly middle aged south described abundant class. they have no problem parenting right-wing republican propaganda. i mean, imagine seeing marjorie taylor greene and lauren boebert and ron desantis math textbooks, greg abbott busing migrants to washington, d. c.. and saying, democrats, they are the crazy extreme ones! so what do musk say in response to all of this? well, they claim to change their talking points about policies, and it's more about atmospheric evolution. politics feels differently,

they say, there's been a high shift as gen z might put it. for a moment, let's leave aside the development of the facts, don't care about your feelings, folks, suddenly very touch with their feelings. the, let's engage with their contingent earnestly. in 2008, biden lost that democratic primary to a significantly more liberal opponent, barack obama. he was subsequently pragmatically selected as obama 's vp, specifically because he was a moderate blue dog hair, ever so moderate and ever so palatable to the american electorate. joe biden, the milk toast moderate, is now in 2022, the standard bearer of all democrats. he's the head of america's liberal party, so in the white house, he alongside pro-coal conservative west virginia joe manchin, said their liberal left agenda. wow! real radical left! now, let's consider the republican body will recall in

2012, nominated one mitt romney to spearhead their chance for the white house. yes, mitch romney now, rhino pariah matrimony. in ten years, it went from gop leader to bleeding heart woke outcast. a man who we must note, never shifted a single, on a single one of his policy positions. he's the same metro me on every issue, but his party has gone way to the right than him. so tell me again how it feels like the democrats have gone rogue, that they happen to launch a coup, that i missed? did they suddenly start accusing their opponents of eating babies? i mean, it's easy in american discourse to talk simplistically about the fall far left and the far-right as to equally dangerous fringe blocks. elon musk has done plenty of times just in the past week. but here's the difference. america's far-left wants to give us free health care and free childcare. america's far-right wants to give us white supremacy and no democracy.

and this asymmetrical polarization of u.s. politics would be laughable, if it went so horrifying. we're living through an unspeakably dangerous moment, the qanon, pro neo-nazi faction of the republican party is poised to expand dramatically, come the midterms. with just two years away from donald trump, very possibly reseason executive power. if that happens, we may look back on this past week, as a pivotal moment. when a petulant and not so bright billionaire casually bought one of the most influential messaging machines, and just handed it to the far-right. i'm joined now by molly john fast, a contributor to the atlantic, and author of the weight what newsletter. norm fainstein, discovered the american enterprise institute and author of multiple books on gop extremism. and see sean ali, and editor at msnbc daily. thank you all for joining me. let me start with you, noah. you've spent years, decades, studying political polarization, studying our two parties. you even within books about it. what is your take on this mosque talking point, that democrats have moved far to the left, and republicans haven't shifted at all? >> i don't know whether he's just trying to troll everybody,

or if he really believes it. if he really believes it, it's absurd, of course. you know, my initial response to his tweet was to give him citations for some of the things that i and tom have written about this. plus others, where evidence is very very clear. and we're looking at things that are clear at the elite level, elected officials, party officials, and at the mass level. there's just no question that this is asymmetric, as you said, mehdi. and one other thing that struck me, as i listened to the dinner last night, was the closing statement by trevor noah, where he talked to the press about how we have these pressures freedoms, we can speak back and we can speak truth to power.

what if the russian journalists have them? think about it. and i thought at that time about elon musk, and how his views are actually echoed way too much by our mainstream press, which treats all of this as, all sides do it, and that false equivalence. and it means that the extremist who are trying to destroy our democracy get away with it because the public doesn't get it. and what he's doing now is reinforcing that fiction. >> you're right. you're so right. most people don't follow politics closely and efforts very easily. far, far-right, they're the same, and take and equidistant position between the two extremes, and it's not just musk doing that. i mean, vast swaths of the american media, sadly. molly, if you think, if anyone thinks america's far-left and far-right are equally dangerous, surely, they must be suffering from some form of brain fog, but it's important to point out,

it's not just mosque, it's many people in our media and in our public sphere. what is behind this unhinged, not just for musk, but the broader media, and on musk, molly, what do you make of it? is he just a very simple person -- he came on the show if you days ago and she said to me, he's complex. don't mark him, he's actually a smart guy. we should just dismiss him as a symbol ton, but every day, i get more evidence that he's a simpleton, or he's a far right-wing or just taking center stage. >> i do think he's being courted very hard by this far-right fringe, and you see it. you see joe rogan and those types are working very hard to sort of charm him. he does seem to be a person who likes it when people are nice to him, right? so is quite upset with the left because he has all these labor problems. he has, you know, a lot of workers complaining about racism and sexism, terrible sexual harassment complaints and racism complaints in the factories. so there's, you know, there is a real move to try to unionize. but also if he doesn't like. i think he's a person who likes to be liked, and that's really what it is. he's working really hard to make it his friend. the other thing i would say about him, and with all these guys, and you've seen this also

with lamar, you know, so much complaining of, you know, everyone so white, so woke, they don't let me tell my jokes. but you know, old, rich white men have since the beginning of time, complained about young people, like this is not new. you know, the older rich white, you've got everything, of course you are threatened by young people. of course you are mad, of course you don't like their beliefs. i mean, think about the 1960s. like this is not some new phenomenon, old rich white men are always very threatened by young people. so as much as i understand it, i think their fault in some ways, and it's on the mainstream media for reporting this incredulously, and not saying like, this is a rich guy who does it want his factory unionized. >> i can't believe it was this discussion about both sides, what's, 16 months after we watched the first insurrection in modern american history at the nation's capital. this is happening in some vacuum, fine, but it's just bizarre to me, and you're right about some of his interactions on twitter. for a guy who goes on and on about far left, far right, we should be in the middle. he only seems to be to respond to some of the worst far-right characters on that health side that we all love and hate,

twitter. let me ask you this, what do you make of this line that we hear from the andrew sullivan's and bill mars and elon musk's of the world. forget the tape that it shows that the democrats haven't moved significant the left, but republicans have moved to the far-right. forget all of that. it's about how you feel, it's about the cultural power of the left and places like twitter and academia and the media. what do you make of that line of argument? >> well, i think it's sort of very convenient, sort of argument to make that's based on lies and feelings and the sort of cultural sphere. but the reality is that the way that power is distributed in our society has a lot to do with the materials of things. corporate power and the sort of extreme concentration of power among the top 1%. i think the bigger issue here right now is that elon musk is claiming that he's operating twitter, or he wishes to

operate twitter in a neutral way. but obviously, is making field judgments about who's on the right and who's on the left, and who's more influential. and twitter did a study the other day that shows that right-wing politicians for example are amplified more by twitters algorithm. and that they're not sure why that is happening. but let's say, elon musk takes over twitter, and he now has sort of the keys here. and the pentagon now is making judgments about about whether or not the right matters more or less than the left. he could end up tweaking the algorithm to benefit one group more than that other. it is very concerning. other day that shows that right-wing politicians for example are amplified more by twitters algorithm. and that they're not sure why that is happening. but let's say, elon musk takes over twitter, and he now has sort of the keys here. and the pentagon now is making judgments about about whether or not the right matters more or less than the left.

he could end up tweaking the algorithm to benefit one group more than that other. it is very concerning. >> yeah. you also got this idea that, couple of things he just reminded me of. number one, pit crews is tweeting the other day, and musk's taking on twitter, taking over twitter. i've got 200,000 more followers now. i've got 5 million, with -- no he doesn't, he shows you had 4. 8 million followers on twitter before. how is that censorship, which i have just found hilarious. and this idea that elon musk, like donald trump, people actually buy into this idea that a right-wing billionaire is somehow not part of the elite. i love that idea as well. norm, let's talk serious stuff, though, about the consequences for the nation. the qanon neo-nazi faction of the gop's and all likely about to grow, after the midterms. the gosar's and greens in this world are gonna get new allies. trump could very possibly be reelected as president in 2024. is there any chance that the gop can come back from the brink? how dire is the state of conservative politics right now? >> very, very, very dire. what i worry about is, if they win the house and senate, and

there, you know, odds on favorites, at least to take the majority in the house, there is no incentive for them to get back to being even the semblance of a normal party. it would be a very conservative party, but when that isn't determined to blow up our democracy, and to impose horrible conditions on women, on people of color, burning books and a whole lot more. and as you say, mehdi, if you look at the candidates who are running now, they are all of the louis gohmert, marjorie taylor greene variety. they are trying to tie themselves more to trump. i don't think kevin mccarthy would become the speaker, if the republicans win a majority. it will be either jim jordan type, or there may well be a donald trump, moving into that position. we are a long distance away from returning to any kind of normal political party in a way from a fanatic cult. >> molly, i'm gonna ask you the question i often ask you, and that i seem to ask every day on

twitter these days which is, how is a republican party that represents an open goal every day, every morning, every night, there's a new revelation, there's a new crazy claim, there's a new bunkers camp that the running for office. how is that party able to escape unscathed, where are the democrats? why are they not putting the ball in the back of these empty nets? >> unbelievable! i think about this all the time, i mean, look at even alvin bragg in new york. he had a really tight case for something that a lot of real estate people do, where they changed evaluation of their properties to not pay taxes. i've actually even known people who have gone to jail for this. they were never prosecuted. i mean, alvin bragg, we just elected him. and he gave up. so, it's really scary. i mean, thankfully, still the january six committee exists.

the hope is that merrick garland is going to follow those criminal referrals. i mean, he still has not gone that with the meadows. i mean, i hope he does. there are four or five criminal referrals he hasn't followed through yet. so, january six committee is doing a really good job there, doing a really thorough job. a lot of things are coming out, but ultimately, democrats have a smaller and smaller window, in which to hold trump accountable. and if they don't do it, and if they don't produce a narrative, there is no stopping them from doing it the next time. >> we're out of time for this segment, but my panel, please do stick around. we're gonna carry on this conversation after a short break. still ahead, next diplomacy went to kyiv today. should joe biden go as well? i will ask our panel.

>> house speaker nancy pelosi that a congressional delegation

to meet with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy in kyiv today. that now makes speaker pelosi the highest ranking u.s. official to visit ukraine during the war, they took their photos a visit by the secretaries of defense and state. so is it time for president biden to go to kyiv as well? let's ask our panel who still with us. norm ornstein, molly jong-fast and zeeshan aleem. norm, what do you think, should president biden go to kyiv? i feel like it's gonna be the right thing to do. let's be honest, politically midterm election, with his approval ratings pretty bad. >> i have mixed feelings about this, mehdi. it's a dangerous thing and you know, the house speaker and that delegation which included some of the finest members of the house, i think every time we're out there publicly expressing our solidarity with zelenskyy, it's good. more important is that we have a president who is started in the policy, and i think they've done an excellently brilliant job of providing the resources necessary for zelenskyy and these incredible ukrainians to fight back. so it's a public relations

move. it would benefit them politically. i don't put my president into a war zone at this point. >> fair enough. the shaun, let me pick up on what norman mentioned, policy. something we were discussing earlier on the show. when austin was in kyiv, he said one of the open u.s. war insist to degrade and weaken the russian military. at what point do you think it's justifiable support for the ukrainian government and military to become perhaps a more questionable proxy war against russia by the u.s.? >> yeah, i mean, it can be very problematic. i think right now, the problem that biden has said is pretty judicious. you know, a single lot of military aid that they've sent, initially with defensive weapons, and are pivoting towards offensive, more heavier weapons. and of course humanitarian aid, that's coupled with the sort of spencer move, the sanctions against moscow. i think that's been pretty effective. i don't think that there needs to be escalation further. and i also think that potentially, with the sort of

you know, if biden were to make a surprise visit to kyiv, that might be something that shows solidarity. but there's one downside to it, which is that moscow might sort of interpret this as sort of this shifting more through a way a war of self-defense on behalf of ukraine, and increasingly towards a proxy war. and if that's to happen, then what happens as russia becomes more concerned with saving face. and they may have more incentive to take it even further, and tomorrow tracked in more brutal conflict. so i think it's important to sort of stay focused on allowing and aiding ukraine in its capacity to pursue self-determination, self-defense, and not make this sort of inter imperial great bauer's fight. >> fair point. molly, let me ask you this. the house passed a ukraine democracy defense land lease act, by a vote of 400 and 17 to 10, this week. i'm sure you were shocked to hear the ten, who voted against it, including matt gates, paul

gosar, marjorie taylor greene. the far-right of the congressional republican party is still keeping this pro putin stance. why aren't we hearing more from the democrats about this? i could ask the same question, but i want to keep asking it. this is a very unpopular stance in america right now, not backing ukraine. why there are no costs for the republicans that are doing this? >> it's like political malpractice. i mean, remember freedom price, remember republicans, all these democrats lost their seats because they wouldn't support this war that had nothing to do with 9/11, right? here we have a situation where we have a very popular little country, it's all about democracy, you know? they were completely unprovoked. it's a very popular war. people want the president to

look strong, which is why i actually think it's good for him to go to ukraine, because i think that russia so unpredictable, you can't know what it's gonna do. putin's just acting in a totally insane way. i don't think that makes any sense for biden to worry about that. i think that for biden to go to ukraine, he's showing that he's pro democracy. and we are in a country right now where one party is not pro democracy, right? so like that's a big dip. and we're watching these ukrainians, and in some ways, america's getting to see what the stakes are, right? these autocrats could be coming back here in, you know, 2022 and 2024. so i actually think that it's very good visual, and i think democrats need to align themselves with this idea that they are pro democracy party. they are pro people voting. they are pro, you know, free and fair elections. and in that way, they're very

different than the matt gates and the marjorie greene's, and then mitch mcconnell's. >> i think it would send a powerful message. i've taken all this point about the security angle, and i take zeeshan point about the escalation. but of the prime minister of the ukraine can go, and the speaker of the house can go, i think it would be a very nice visual for the president. both sending a message to the world and sending a message back home. joe america. we will have to leave it there. fascinating conversation. molly jong-fast, norm ornstein, zeeshan aleem, appreciate all of you. thanks so much. >> still ahead, transgender lawmaker roadmap for protecting lgbtq kids and made the right vicious attacks. but first, richard louis is here with the headlines. rich? >> good evening to you again. stories we're watching for you this hour, police fatally shooting one of the suspects involved in alleged gunfight at a festival in jackson, mississippi. authorities say several shooters exchanged gunfire on saturday there, five people were injured. u.s. marshals are offering $10,000 for information leading to the capture of a corrections

officer, and an escaped murder suspect. officer vicky white and casey white, no relation, went missing during an inmate escort to an alabama courthouse hearing. white is considered missing and in danger. and several european countries, they're easing covid-19 travel restrictions. those boarding flights to greece will no longer have to show proof of vaccination or a negative covid test. and italy is dropping vaccination requirements for entering some public venues there. more off the mehdi hasan show, right after this. eggland's best. the only eggs with more fresh and delicious taste. plus, superior nutrition. which matters now more than ever.

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opponent was a 13 term incumbent, republican bob marshals marshals virginia sulfuric reined chief homophobic proposed a bar bill that would limit transgender peoples access the public bathrooms. danica won that election against martial, becoming the first openly transgender person to serve in any u.s. straight legislature. and she has since won reelection, ten times she has a new book out this week called brenda page, and it's out at a time when republicans are doubling down on martial style homophobia and transphobia. virginia delicate danica rome joins me now. thank you so much for coming on the show, congratulations on the new book. republicans have increased, not decrease, they're anti-lgbtq attacks since you entered politics five years ago. what has that been like for you to witness that republican intensification of bigotry? whether you see it on fox, whether you see ron desantis and his, don't say gay bill?

>> to be honest with you, while you see the stuff happening and so many other states and everything, i've led the charge in virginia for actually taking care of constituent service by stigmatizing the brave people were elected to serve in the first place. which is why we've now passed 32 of my bills and to law and my two and a half times in office, including ten bills to feed hungry kids while i'm still working on legislation. with everything dealing with actually getting prosthetic device coverage for amputees, to making sure that we got 28 here in the district. i'll tell you, what when you single out and put people are elected to serve, one day, so those trans kids might just switch on you. i have been here, and it happens across the country, it can happen anywhere. and i'm telling anyone to be who you are, be that, well and thrive because of who you are, not despite it. which i write a lot about own -- >> in your book, you talk about

speaking to a conservative radio host who tried putting you down on what age you think is appropriate to talk to gets about transgender-ism on transgender rights. he tried to misconstrue your words and say, you wanted this taught to kindergartners. it opponent bob marshall also tried to use that against you in 2017. i just want to ask a very straight question, which is, how does someone like yourself, both a lawmaker, someone who is transgender, how do you talked a lot of people out there, not just conservatives, but you know and i know, a lot of people who are panicked and paranoid about what is taught in school to young kids. how do you talk to them and reassure them that, you know, this is not grooming? this is not sexual education, it is not being re-written in some bizarre way. how do you deal with it? the first thing is, let's just talk about the very basic premise of, let's just be nice to each other. i like to think that any parent, any given student wants to respect and to be kind.

that means not calling other names, if we just had a very simple conversation, i think these are times that are very easy to understand in that regard. and one of the things we talk about here in burned the pages is what happens when you have lawmakers or actually starting to push these martyrs out of people who just want to treat trans kids negatively. or and having that, and that's why we passed about two dozen equality bills in our two years and having the democrats trifecta in virginia in 2020 and 2021. at the same time, we certainly have a lot more work to do, and i'll tell you that, nothing else, i really hope that people across the country right now can see, that look, if you have, in your district, and your states, politicians who are attacking trans kids, then they shouldn't be politicians anymore. and that we need people to step up and run for office. and part of my job, my work as the executive director of america's a trained democratic women to run for office. and that's why i'm really

asking for it today. step up, run for office, because we need, you and we need to really bad right now. >> they shouldn't be politicians anymore, you say. sadly, they are standing in to the high ranks, in 2024. one last question, danica roem, i'm sure you've been following the news on elon musk bang twitter. it's not being reported that must come around idea after conservative, supposedly sacrificial upside the babylon b, suspended for misgendering assistant secretary rachel as man of the year. what does this mean for the future of twitter? if, mosque then your nerve to, there is sympathetic are okay and willing to turn a blind eye? >> i don't give a damn about elon musk. i'm much more concerned about helping out my constituents, and protecting them from being discriminated against in school and any other place. what's billionaires are doing when they're wasting $44

million on the stuff, when they can be feeding every congregate in america so many times over, i just don't have the capacity to really care about what he wants to do compared to the very basic essence of making sure that all of my constituents, that they are treated fairly, and they are being respected by the very people elected serve them. >> i thought a lot understand your sentiments about not giving a damn about elon musk. the problem, is sadly, that voters hold a lot of hate speech and bigotry. but danica, rome congratulations on the, book thank you so much for appearing on the show tonight. >> thank you for inviting me, it's good to be here. >> coming, up is it actually a way for republicans to stop trump if he runs for president again in 2024? i'm not so sure myself, but but journalists, mark weaver bits here to make the case. o make the case. o make the case. so you can get back in sync.

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running for president? >> i am, but you've got to get through of course this year. that's an option that's on the table. >> even if president trump runs, you will run? consider running. his candidacy won't affect yours? >> no, it won't. there's not a factor in my decision-making process. >> that was arkansas governor, gop governor, you saw james this morning, suggesting that donald trump will get him off a 2020 presidential run.

other republicans are taking a far more cautious, currently approach discouraged by trump's continued governance. and, yet a group of anti trump republicans say they have a plan or a strategy maybe to topple trump, detailed atlantic says, quote, of treating a one impeached former president, and errol parent. in other, words don't worry about hurting special boys feelings. that's his argument to the author of the piece. personally, are my doubts whether the strategy has an intensive working against trump. and let me ask the man himself he joins me, now he is a analyst for msnbc. mark, thank you so much for coming on the show. i wish you were right and the piece was 100 percent on. and when you lay out is fastening in your essay. i wish it was viable, but i just don't see. i feel like it's a bit of a

liberal fantasy about a gop that no longer exists because your entire argument rests on a republican challenger repeatedly calling trump a loser, which he is. but which i don't think will work because the republican party don't think he's a loser, do they. they think he's a winner. >> that is correct, and look, an argument is only so good as they're someone willing to make it. and someone willing to actually carry the approach of providing. it so another publican challenger. so i do think that there is an extremely basic facts about donald trump. one loss records, if you only re-completely a zero sum about winning. all republicans presumably want to win in 2024. don trump has lost for himself, and former republicans, pretty much every step of the way starting in 2016. and, it's sort of amazing to me that there are not more republicans who are willing to lay out how much he has lost. he has been the first

republican -- he's been the first the president in 100 years to lose the house, the senate, and the white house in a single term. he was the first president in 100 years to lose jobs. he left office with historically low approval ratings. he lost to joe biden, and we know a lot of people the republican party do not acknowledge that. they claim not to believe that. but, it's in fact true that he lost. is a story room. and they know that. if people are going to try -- if republicans are going to try to come up with an alternative, and if you're, right as unclear if they do or not, they want to do this. it is incumbent upon them to do this at a very early stage of the 24 campaign. >> yes, and 100 percent agree with everything you just said in terms of the factual description of donald trump's loser in us. the problem of, course let's

just pull, up i think have a graph of the latest polling on how many republicans think donald trump won or lost the last election. i think 21% of republican voters think joe biden's victory was legitimate. 21%, which is truly shocking. it's not shocking anymore, but it should be shocking to see that number before. and mark, i read your piece, and there were two crucial words i thought they were missing from it. one is fox, and the other is facebook. and so the argument that some of your interviewees make, is that republican challenges and message the republican base. but that base, of course, is an information bubble. it's cocooned off from reality. and the facts about trump, you just masterfully outlined, they're getting their fake news from facebook. they're getting their trumpist propaganda from fox. we have to address the messaging challenge here for any reality based trump challenger. >> you do, but i think that the messaging only can be effective, and it is been overwhelmingly

effective for donald trump in for fox, in the absence of a counter argument. there's never been so many republicans who will privately say, they know the truth to be completely otherwise, and we're so content to wave the white flag. and i think that this is a product of straight-up you are either cowardice, or not just wanting the hassle of being mean tweeted about. getting all kinds of threats, getting their arms out of the. base is the most unfamiliar and frankly tiresome story we have been following for the last five or six years. it never changes, but i would argue that donald trump is in a far more wonderful position now within the republican party that he might have been two years ago, four years ago. because, frankly, again, the record is much stronger now to say that republicans, you know, they can lose to them. i think in some ways, the democrats best bet in 2024 is republicans nominating him. thing a lot of democrats would not want to get into that point, but i think, i think is a very beatable republican. >> i agree with you that he is more vulnerable than it was years ago, but, let's pull up some more polls.

one order poll this week shows trump had 83% favorable deal with gop voters. and ron desantis second with 69%, that same poll also shows trump reflects gop values for 40% of gop voters in desantis and second place and 25%. mitch mcconnell at seven, list cheney at six, tells you everything. so, i agree with you that he is more vulnerable than before, but if he's vulnerable to a guy, ron desantis was running to his right, not as left. he's not going to be sergeants and who reads them in 2024. it's gonna be someone like ron desantis who wanted to say if you got a booster shot. >> this is 100 percent true. look, these are all very imperfect messengers. the fact is, are they gonna do this at all? ron desantis is someone that donald trump was uniquely scared of him. but he certainly knows that desantis has quietly taken those trumpy credibility and fascism self as someone who actually can get things done.

i, mean he can start with a little cold wars on the same way that republicans have looked at donald trump to do the same. and he's actually got into the state that people in the republican party perceived to be working. and on desantis is a much lower key character. so, i've no doubt that donald trump, when he decides to start on, and will do his best of ten limb from limb. characterize him, sort of, caricature among away that he does. but, look i do think that if republicans want to coalesce some kind of alternative to donald trump, or some people out there who can make that argument. and it can be compelling. >> yes, indeed. ron desantis, for me, he's with more competent and less charisma. but i'm looking forward to it. i feel like why can they both lose when they go against each other? one last question for you, i was in the white house correspondents dinner last, and joe biden only joked --

half joked there on his remarks about the six years for his presidency. assuming joe biden, given his age, decides not to run again in 2024, who do you think the best democratic candidate should be to take on trump or desantis? i don't think it's going -- if you believe polls, kamala harris is not that person. i think a lot of democrats would say that biden, most democrats would prefer biden to step away if you can. but they also live in total fear of donald trump coming back. and i think it's entirely likely that if biden decides not to run, they'll be a pretty open primary. i don't think kamala harris will have the clear floor. they will have another big free-for-all, which might be a healthy thing for the democratic party, because, first of all, would make them younger. because, presumably, the candidates will be the next nominees for the party are considerably younger than joe biden. so we will see. honestly, it's very early, but it's not that early. >> quick last question, 30 seconds left, i mentioned the

white house correspondents dinner, you're famous for chronicling this town. the elites. the political immediately so much in the sea, but did you think about the return of the white house correspondents dinner? >> well, it's interesting. i worked for the new york times over the last 16 years until about two months ago. , and we were not allowed to go. our editors thought it was just a bad, cozy look. and we just had to stay. and i don't have to mess. it was my first dinner, i want to wait for the first time in a long time. it was strange, it was inescapable to think about the potential superspreader element. i think i don't mind you or anyone else was there of that. but, it was unusual to be there. it, was in some, ways familiar. , and you know, we got through the weekend, and here we are, sunday night. >> yep, we did. i tested negative today, i wore my mask last night. mark leibovich, think you for your time. >> thanks a lot. >> when we come back, it is the

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marks the start of asian american and pacific island heritage month, or aapi month, which has since 1970, eight been all about recognizing the contributions of asian americans and pacific on the americans to this country. one obvious area that we've seen these contributions and's health care. as the l.a. times reports, the health care system relies disproportionately on indian doctors, with one in ten physicians identifies indians. and i just indian american doctors, but pakistani american doctors, filipino american, korean american. it was asian american doctors, disproportionately represented on the front lines in the fight against covid over the past two years. some of them lost their own

lives while saving the lives of other americans during a deadly, ongoing pandemic. tonight, as the son of an asian doctor. as the brother-in-law of an asian american physician who's been selflessly treating dozens of covid patients over the past two years, and as a relatively newly minted asian american myself, i want us all to be paying tribute to asian american doctors. and these are doctors who are not just fighting covid in hospitals, but also to public policy level. think of people like ashish jha, an internal medicine doctor came to america as a teenager, a child immigrant from india. he's not the coronavirus response coordinator at the white house. dr. vivek moore the, an internal medicine doctor who came to america h three, a child of immigrants from india. he's not the surgeon general of the united states of america. think of all the asian american doctors, asian women doctors you've seen on this network as a medical contributor. gusts on the show. think of all the asian american medical doctors, indian, filipino, puck stunning, and

the rest, we've treated you and your families over the years. and let us all please recognize their contributions, their hard work, their sacrifices, as we kick off we'll be right back here next sunday, at eastern. you can now find the show at the msnbc hard on peacock. it's part of a new experience where you can stream some of your favorite msnbc shows on the map. you can find the msnbc hub the brows and stream my show anytime you like. new episodes of the mid-essential will be posted every evening, monday through thursday, so we'll see you on peacock tomorrow. for now, from me, have a good night and goodbye. from me, only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ night and goodbye.

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