time with us on "the both" with ari melber. always find me online @ari melber. you can always tell us what you think we need to odd to this show. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. ♪♪ >> good evening, earn. we begin "the reidout" tonight with the defense of democracy at home and abroad. over the weekend house speaker nancy pelosi met with ukranian president volodymyr zelenskyy in kyiv vowing that the u.s. would support ukraine until the fight is done. pelosi, second in line to the presidency, is the highest ranking american leader to visit ukraine since the start of russia's invasion. here at home at the white house correspondents dinner in washington, d.c. we heard similar messages from president biden and host trevor noah who shared comedic and urgent takes on stepping up to save democracy right here in the u.s. >> i stood here tonight, and i made fun of the president of the

united states, and i'm going to be fine. i'm going to be fine, right? [ laughter ] ask yourself this question. [ applause ] if -- if russian journalists who are losing their livelihoods as you were talking about, steve, and their freedom for daring to report on what their own government is doing, if they had the freedom to write any words, to show any stories or to ask any questions, if they had basically what you have, would they be using it in the same way that you do? >> not the enemy of the people. the truth matters. american democracy is not a reality show. it's reality itself. >> the first amendment is in peril because democracy is in peril. the authoritarian impulses of trump are not behind us.

they are very much still here. the infamous phone call trump once made to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger asking him to find the votes to steal the election in his favor. that phone call is now the center of a criminal investigation, what may be the biggest threat of criminal prosecution that trump currently has ever faced. in atlanta today, a special grand jury was selected for the investigation into whether trump and others illegally tried to influence the 2020 election in georgia. we also learned a bit more about that phone call, according to cnn, during the call, a reference pittsburgher aide fired off a plea for help texting then white house chief of staff mark meddos, quote, need to end this camp i don't think this will be productive much longer. let's save the relationship. that isn't the only investigation, of course, as the january 6th committee aims to wrap up its fact-finding phase. it has asked three republican lawmakers to cooperate with the panel and share what they know about the deadly attack. those lawmakers are congressman andy biggs, mo brooks and ronny jackson. jackson quickly declined the offer telling nbc, quote, i will

not participate in the illegitimate committee's ruthless crusade against president trump and his allies, unkweempt predictable response from a trump sycophant accused of harassing staff and drinking while serving as white house physician and late today congressman biggs participated he won't be participating in the illegitimate democrat-stlizing panel and calling it a sham. these republicans are trying to shield someone who tried to stealth presidency. he also wanted to shoot unarmed civilians exercising their first amendment rights. remember during the george floyd demonstrations when trump had to hide in his underground bunker while protesters clashed with police near the white house. well, according to a forthcoming memoir according to markenser trump said can't you just shoot them, shoot them in the legs or something. it didn't happen but it very well could when one day a different trump cabinet agrees to shoot officials and a different official is more than willing to find enough joins.

joining me is the former assistant watergate prosecutors and coheat of "sisters-in-law cohost and coauthor of "uneke wall." welcome to boast you. jill, i want to start with you because you have previous experience with an authoritarian president. it's child's play what richard nixon did. nobody even knows if trump is going to run. what he is has metastasizeds into the whole parliament have you a governor in florida who has pushed for a law that says that protesters can drive their cars into and hit protesters, and that was directed at black lives matter protests to make protests in florida damn near illegal only at directed at george floyd era and black lives matter and he has secret police

force are for election law which will be targeted towards voters of color. trump supporters, isn't it more dangerous because it's almost infected every republican official? >> absolute you are 100% correct, and that is i think what's scaring so many people in america now is exactly how close we came in the past to losing our democracy but how dangerous it is going forward because all of the republicans who participated in this and those who are now running for office who weren't even in office before who have adopted the same trumpian policies are putting their past learnings to work, and it could be much worse, and if cook doesn't get its act together and pass some laws or fix existing laws like the electoral college act to prevent a takeover and ignoring the will of the people, just throwing away the votes of americans, we will be in very serious trouble.

it's something that we all, every one of us, has to be concerned about and has to go and work to make sure that not only we vote and that other people vote but that our votes are count, that we elect secretary of states who will count our votes as they were cast. >> you know, dr. dieson, you know, the metastasis is total. i mentioned desantis is also blocking the right to vote and stripping black representation. he have's doing everything trump does, just without the sense of humor. so, you know, i have no doubt that if he were president he would then not only utilize the powers that trump attempted to utilize but that he would be more effective in doing it because they are also at jill wine-banks just indicated, they are putting in place from top to bottom, from the secretary of state's office to local city council to school boards people who think this way and they have put them everywhere, and i haven't seen much to -- to push it back. let me give you an example.

there's -- this is the people who actually do get prosecuted. one of these guys who was an insurrectionist, one of the grunts that broke into the capital, 56-year-old former nypd officer has taken the old self-defense argument that police normally use in situations where they harm a civilian. he tried to apply that to his defense. he didn't succeed. he actually was convicted, but, you know, all of it is then usable to then be reinterpreted for trumpism. >> there's no question about it. this is not an individual. this is not a personal vendetta. this is not an individual assault. this is a pathology that haynes saided the body politic. if we're talking about covid as a metaphor, then this is something that has spread broad and wide in the body politics especially in trumpocracy in american culture. this is a return to reconstruction, post-reconstruction, when white folk who lost a war but who won the battle of interpretation got on their haunches so to speak and rolled hard against black

people through violence, through voter suppression, through intimidation having denied women the vote, having denied african american and people who didn't own property, they were angry at the prospect that america would now live up to the true american of its creeding a dr. king said. what we're seeing now is the manchurian candidate has nothing on donald trump. you have to go to fiction and the outlandish imagination that is at the further ends of paranoia to even conjure the prospect of what we see going on. we had essentially an american president would was complicit with a nation that has now gone to war against another nation, and he gained justification for that. he preferred the words of putin to the words of his own, you know, intelligence agencies so, yes, we see at the very local level, at the police level, at the law enforcement level and

god forbid at the jurist prudential level with the sitting benches here as well as these feckless, spineless, uninspired politicians who give into every whim of donald trump and when donald trump is not there, they still have a machinery in place that will destroy the infrastructure of democracy if we don't raise the red banner of warning and resistance. >> you know, i mean, jill, just think about georgia for a second. think about it. the next time brad rafns pittsburgh worry do it, right this time he did stand up to it. there was a movement clarity and a movement moral clarity for even, you know, kevin mccarthy when -- you know, when the walls started crashing in and the gates started crashing in and they were overrun with these maga people on january 6th. pretty much most republicans had the -- the normal reaction, but they are all now willing to do it. you know, i don't doubt for a second that the next brad raffensperger if he doesn't win his seat back will do it next time. let's go to some of the things

that i -- that i see stories and now i see america in them. there is a russian oligarch who spoke out, he's a multi-billionaire, he was, against vladimir putin. he spoke out against the war. we just -- we just talked about the war. he was essentially threatened by the state, by the kremlin, and his bank was -- his presence in the bank is a problem. they said the statement of your share holder is not well. we'll nationalize your bank. they threatened to nationalize the bake if he was still involved. he was forced to then fire sale his share of the bank. that idea of punishing an individual corporation for speech sounds, wow, that's russia. no, they are doing that here. they are doing it in florida to disney. laura ingraham has said on fox that they will do it to every company that couldn't comply when republicans are in charge. rick scott, the former governor of florida has written a man photo and he said we'll get you,

any corporation works doesn't comply when we're in charge. there's no difference between the ethos except the kremlin also has lethal potential attacks on people who don't xlimpt your thoughts? >> my thoughts are it's horrifying. i had the privilege interviewingp ruth guot and as she was describing a fascist dictator starting with mussolini, the character tricks that she described were chilling because she was describing donald trump. she was describing putin, and that is terrifying because once that starts to slide, then we have lost our democracy, so it -- it's something that only we can protect. when you mentioned brad raffensperger, i don't know what he would do the second time. we'll have some idea when he decides how to handle the disqualification of marjorie taylor greene because it is up to him whether she stays on the

ballot, whether she was guilty of insurrection. he may not have the courage to do it and stand up to the trumpist, and you're right. it's not just trump anymore. it is desantis. it is mo brooks. it is that whole category of people, so i -- i hope he's strong enough to stand up to it. i don't know enough about what the evidence is. he may be right in not barring her from the -- from the ballot, but they are preparing by what they learned in trying to overturn this election how to do it better, and unless we fix the laws so that they can't do these kinds of things, so that the vice president can't just willy-nilly say i'm not counting that vote, there has to be evidence. there has to be something more than that, and the hearings i think will be very important. i look forward to them to hearing the evidence all put together in a compelling closing argument so that americans of both republican and democrats

and heart facts and hopefully listen to them and not just continue with this business of i'm only listening to fox news interpretation. i'm listening to the original of this. >> let me play jonathan martin. i'm not sure, republicans seem to be focused on nationalizing anti-abortion laws and passing a national ban on abortion. that seems to be sort of what they are cooking up at the moment. not saving our democracy. i'm not sure anyone of them would talk about it. here's jonathan martin talking about the hold trump still has on the party. >> he still is the leader of the republican party. each the candidates he's not endorsed, those he snubbed. still kissing up to him, mepging his name in their speeches and tv ads so that tells you everything about the grip he still pass. >> that was on "the view" earlier today. dr. dyson, all the political incentives are to go further in the maga direction not to pull back from it, so how do we pull back from it? >> sure. they are loading their automatic

weapons with maga so the truth is they are beyond truth. you know, i listened to my gracious colleague here, speak with the authority of a jurist who looks at adjudicating competing claims. one claim over here, one claim over here. we look at evidence and decide what's true. they are beyond truth. they are beyond fact. they have already announced alternative facts. now they have alternative truths. they live in an alternative universe and the problem with them is that they are enforcing their created imagined world as the real world. they are supplanting what our deep principles of democracy, justice, freedom, equality. they are supplanting the -- the declaration of independence, the bill of rights with their own vicious assault upon freedom. isn't it amazing that -- that trumpists and first amendment people, people who are republicans, you are now the ones undercutting freedom so, yes, his hold is extremely strong, and unless they loose that vice grip of death they

will go down with it, but we will be going down with them as well. >> yeah, unfortunately so. a lot of alarming stuff going on. jill wine-banks, dr. dyson, thanks for being here. next on triedout, no, laura ingra hamm, it's not acceptable to be forced to work into your 70s to pay offer your kids' college loans. snow shower elizabeth warren joins me on the student debt crisis and a deep dive into the mad, mad world of tuxer carlson and now he bills, and i quote, what maybe the most racist show in the history of cable news, unquote. and one last chance for justice. late today the three centenarian survivors of the tulsa race massacre got some very good news as they made their case for reparations. "the reidout" continues after this. "the reidout" continues after this we've got bonnie right here on a video call. we don't take kindly to video calls. oh, in that case just tap to send a message. we don't take kindly to messages neither.

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this andine i want to pay off student accident an insult to the senior citizens, to the people who paid taxes, to people who decide, you know, do i want to buy meat this week or pay for my medicine? that's hogwash. you've got so much jobs. you've got a great economy. let them work and pay off their bills just the way all of douse. >> that's certainly rich coming from someone whose judicial campaign owed $600,000 of unpaid bills for more than a decade, burks okay. janine piro is, unfortunately, not the only person on the right with a bad take on student loans

as president biden considers forgiving some student debt. laura ingraham tweeted my mom worked as a waitress until she was 37 to help pay for our colleges even help with loan repayment, loan forgiveness, just another insult for those who play by the rules. i don't know, back in the '80s before she became a fox news star, laura who graduated from the ivy league dartmouth college in 1985 and virginia law school in 1919 worked for a top new york law firm as a speech writer in the reagan administration and clerk for justin clarence thomas. way too look out for your mom by letting her pay off your student loans by slinging hash as a waitress into our 70s instead of picking up the tab for her, lawyer a. i feel like laura did us a huge favor by explaining modern conservatism in a nutshell, perfectly. put the working class on the feel even if they are family while the affluent and rich eat. and while they maybe cruel, republicans aren't dumb. they know that if president biden and democrats actually do something about student debt, it

could ability rate is young and progressive voters who overwhelmingly prefer democrats when they vote and so they have introduced a bill to try to block biden from doing just that. what about voters in the middle who say, hey, i paid off my loan so other people should be able to do it as well? well, see, that argument is usually presented without a lot of context. take this report from georgetown which points out that today two out of three jobs require an education beyond a high school diploma. while in the 1970s three out of four jobs required a high school diploma or less, so a college degree is not a luxury, it's a necessity for most people who want to earn decent wages, a literal ladder into the middle class, but the price of college has skyrocketed from 1980 to 2019. the cost increased by 169%, that is not a typo. while worker pay for those aged 22 to 27 years of age has increased by just 19%. that is the mismatch, y'all. you need the degree, but the

degree puts you into so much debt that you can't get ahead and that means your contributions to the economy are also limited. that is how we've gotten to a world where 43 million americans, collectively 1.7 trillion owed in student debt. that's a number that will only keep rising. with me now is senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts. senator, thank you so much. i really appreciate you being here, and i will note that i graduated, i had a lot of scholarships and graduated with about $15,000 worth of debt from harvard in 1991, but the whole cost of a harvard education back then was like $22,000 a year. >> yeah. >> our kids, each of their educations cost double that. so do you urns the sort of moral hazard argument that people make when they say why can't you pay it off? it took me like a decade to do it. why should people not get their debt paid off? >> so, let's start on this -- this question about who it is who is carrying that student loan debt. you know, it's not harvard

graduates. i appreciate that you had some, but reality is more than 99% of the people who are carrying student loan debt are not graduating from ivy league college. in fact, 40% of the people who have student loan debt do not have a college diploma. think about that. these are people who god bless them. they tried, right? but. >> yeah. >> life happened. pregnancy, they were trying to work three jobs. their mom got sick, the family had to move to another town. whatever it was, they weren't able to make it through to a diploma, so now look at the position they are in because they weren't born into a family that can pay for it but they tried, they now earn what a high school grad earns, but they are trying to manage college level death, and it is crushing their bones. so i see this as a moment where we just have to kind of decide

what kind of a country do we want to be? what -- what is it that we think we do to build a future? and -- and i heard laura ingraham say, you know, the answer is make them work until they are 73. >> unreal. >> that is that is in fact the official position of the united states government. >> yeah. >> in fact, did you know that tens of thousand of people who are living on social security have had their social security cheques garnished to pay for student loan debt, and sometimes it's their own because, you know, mid career they went back, tried to get a diploma. a lot of times though it's because they guaranteed a debt for a beloved child or a beloved grandchild. >> right. >> now, we can decide as a nation, just keep grinding on those people as hard as you can. squeeze every last nickel out of them and watch them get deeper and deep near debt because you hit them with penalty fees and

raised interest rates if they stumble and can't make it. or we can decide as a nation that we actually are all better off if people try to get an education. those who succeed, it helps them individually, but it helps all of us, and, look, that's not a novel idea. when i went to college, i graduated from the university of houston when it cost $50 a mess ter, 5-0, and the reason that i could graduate from a college that could be paid for on a part-time waitressing job was because american taxpayers invested, and they said, you know, kid, if you're going to get out there and try we're going to support you and help make that happen because that's what we want people to do. we want them to try to get an education. we don't want to the just grind up their bones when they try and can't manage the debt. >> you know, the thing about this argument that i think is so

disingenuous, senator, is we're acting as if the government doesn't constantly forgive other kinds of debt. rich people will take out tens of billions of dollars to make a shopping mall and go into bankruptcy and there's special prints just for reach people. donald trump got his debt forgiven five times that way. >> mm-hmm, mm-hmm. >> so the thing is how have we gotten to a point that the government without a second thought, steve mnuchin back he was in business, you need money, here's a check and when people who are regular people, say i would like some regular money they say get out and work. >> that's exactly -- you know, i'll tell you part of reason for that. part of the reason for that is just plain old the reach people got lots of lobbyists. >> yes. >> and lots of pr folks and lots and lots of friends whose campaigns they have donated to. >> yeah. >> folks are struggling with student loan debt, they don't have a big lobbying arm to get out there for them. all they have got is each other. but -- >> that's right. >> that is the key that you mentioned earlier about voting. this is something that's very

popular, activates voters up and down the spectrum and understand it's very popular among people who have student loan debt. >> mm-hmm. >> but it's also popular among people who don't. >> yeah. >> a majority of americans who do not have student loan debt say i want to see us forgive a chunk of student loan debt because most of them know somebody who does. >> yeah. >> a beloved friend, a child, you know, a co-worker. they see what's happening to people and how student loan debt, trying to pay for an education. >> yeah. >> instead of education being the thing that's the equalizer, everybody gets to be on a level playing field, it actually is tilting the playing field further apart. it's dividing people more economically. >> absolutely. >> and that's not the america we want to be. we can do better than. >> before -- before i let you go. i would be remiss if i didn't ask you about this story that ran today which is not shocking

but it's not surprising but it's shocking. republicans pushing a totally different subject a national abortion ban. is that something that the senate -- the senate democrats are bracing for, an attempt by republicans to take their supposed federalism, throw it in the truck and try to been abortion nationwide? >> of yeah, yeah. actually you're exactly right. yes, we are graced with this. no, we're not going to let this happen. we'll fight them every inch of the way, but actually these two store advice something to do with each other, and i want you to look at where the democrats are and where the republicans are. the majority of americans. americans who have debt or don't have debt, are americans say cancel student loan debt. the overwhelming number of americans say keep "roe v. wade" as the law of the land. the republicans are on the short end of the stick on both of those. in a democracy we know what the world ought to look like, a

whole lot less student loan debt. >> yeah. >> and a whole lot more protection for people who want access to abortion. >> yeah. >> the republicans are fighting us every inch of the way. you know, my view is bring it on. we need to be ready to fight them back. >> they have a minority position, but they are aggressive as a all get out. senator elizabeth warren, thank you. i want to have you come back and talk about emusk in another show. thank you so much for being here. still ahead, how the poster child for america's white nationalist movement and putin's lead apologist is turning the fears of older white conservatives no a ratings bonanza. we'll be right back. ratings bonanza. we'll be right back. ♪i'm so defensive,♪ ♪i got bongos thumping in my chest♪ ♪and something tells me they don't beat me♪ ♪ ♪ ♪he'd better not take the ring from me.♪ looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪

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♪♪ and we told you many times thon show about tucker carlson's obsession with trying to recast american racism to present white americans as the oppressed group in this country and the so-called ruling class is threatening everything his loyal viewers believe in. >> they don't care what you think. they want to control your mind. they want you to do what you're told. they want you to kiss the ring. they are not sentimental. they want power. they want power. they hate you. they want to hurt you. they call you a racist. they call you a racist. they want to control what you do. of course, they want to control your children, do, and they want you to do know it. they couldn't be clearer about it. >> a "new york times" reporter is out with an exhausting investigation of tucker's life, career and fox show and has inter -- and has viewed more

than 1,100 episodes of that show. his stunning solution that the frozen tv dinner era oversees the most racist show in the history of the so that teaches loathing and fear. the fixations that fester by white nationalists is by design. a former employee says tucker is going to double down on the white nationalism because the minute-by-minute shows that the audience eats it up. a political reporter for "new york times" joins us. this is excellent reporting. one of the things is the power that turkey seems to wield in the building and the sort of viciousness with which he's gone after other people at fox who question him in any way. is that something that lackland murdoch encourages? that environment doesn't seem healthy >> you know, it's hard to say who encourages it. it's not punished at fox. we documented two examples, two

in particular, where pretty junior people at fox complained that his rhetoric without either making be a you be safe working environment for some colleagues, a muslim colleague being just attacked with racial slurs online and -- and the second incident in which a reporter said that white supremacy is in fact real. it's not a hoax and carlson heard about this somehow. he was on vacation at the time. called her from a blocked number and yelled at her shut up. shut your mouth. this is from a guy who talks about how everyone wants to shut his viewers up, big tech and liberals and so forth, so with that kind of thin-skein behavior i'm not sure he was punished for that, and you can see that it's basically that he's able to wield his power and say what he wants on air. he isn't reeled in. in a previous era on fox, if someone goes too far, someone like roger ales come back in and

benches them and tucker is not benched. >> the thing, is you know, fox news, you know, roger -- what rupert murdoch sort of discovered, it's really literally no different than what rush limbaugh used to do to be honest and i used to listen to rush limb bock when i was doing talk radio because he was top of the craft. you want to listen to see what he does. it is a tactic if your audience as you point out in your piece, this is a 22% white audience, an oldest audience, the oldest audience in cable news out of the three cable news networks and if you're -- if that's who you're talking to, what rush used to do, you know, his shows were on all these little rural stations all over the country and he was constantly feeding that very white, largely rural audience constant nervousness, you know, constant sense that you're being besieged, that black people are coming for you, the brown people are coming for you. the immigrants are coming for you and are taking your stuff would sort of boil down. that's what his message was, whether it was women and

feminists, that everyone is taking from you. roger ales and rupert murdoch just did that on fox, too. what is tucker doing that's different from what rupert set up, what rupert murdoch set up, because i feel like that's been the a trajectory the whole time. you report that had tucker is doing something different. what is that or what is the difference? >> look, a big difference is that carlson is taking themes and ideas from the underbelly of the far right, things that appear in the old days on be there which was a site on the daily stormer on, you know -- >> a nazi site. >> the daily stormer is nazis. >> neo-nazis. >> yeah. >> that's right, and these ideas are then polished up whiteley and presented and presented. i'll give you a great example. everybody knows in april when he got a lot of flack for defending replacement they're but in fact it wasn't the first time. it's been a growing part of his broadcast since 2017 when he was put in the 8:00 hour.

there were 400 episodes of the show, joy, which he embraces a version of replacement they're which is a conspiracy theory that says that an elite cabal in either the europe or the u.s. are conspireing to replace the native-important population of american with people who are foreign born and it's often muslims, european context or people from latin america or africa in the american context. on the very far right it's blamed on jews with, and in the polished-up version it's blamed on the ruling class and that's the version you see on tucker carlson tonight and you see it tonight. >> for those watching the show, when those men were chant, the young men, neo-nazis were chanting jews will not replace up. that is replacement therapy, the embodiment, that jews are conspireing to replace white americans with non-white americans. why does it work for a business member? >> chris wallace left, you know,

come of their men traitors left who wrote tore the big conservative magazines, shephard smith who was very popular at the time left. why does it work as a business model? >> i think that the more that news becomes jarring to a certain viewer and unpleasant or has facts that run pleasant, it's harder and harder to keep that audience and show them real news and the tension becomes greater and greater. i think a lot of those guys left because it was just too hard, and i think fox was not too unhappy to see some of them go because the viewers didn't always like seeing those points of view, seeing straight news or fox versions of straight news, everything you see on nbc but it was there. i think the second reason, is look, this is a programming edge and you're looking for stuff that will rile people up and get them angry and fearful every night, so in the search for that edge i think that carlson and his team found that if they just borrowed some of this stuff from

weird science, from the far reaches and give it a polish it was very powerful and it is powerful. a former colleague of carlson who calls this strategy rage inflation. it's not just enough to get them angry. have you to really spin it up, and as a cable audience declines which it has for every network, including this one, have you to find a way to squeeze more juice out of the lemon hand this is how they figured out how to do it. >> by the way, it's also saved what had been a failing pretty middling cable news career for tucker who y'all remember he used to work here. he used to work at msnbc, he tried cnn, tried msnbc. this is a mod they will has made him a lot of money. it's very popular, and i don't think he minds that he has to borrow from neo-nazi websites to make it happen because it's working for him. nick, great reporting. thank you very much. appreciate you being here. up next, a ruling late today by a district judge in oklahoma gives survivors of the 1921 tulsa race massacre a last chance for justice. stay with us. massacre a last chance for justice stay with us

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everywhere. >> we deal with it every day and the thoughts of what greenwood was and what it could have been. just before last year owes 100th anniversary of the tulsa race massacre, the three remaining survivors testified about what they had endured. it was one of the worst atrocities of terrorist violence in american history, a mob of white men bombed, burned and looted the prosperous greenwood neighborhood in tulsa, oklahoma known as black wall street. over two days of horrific violence, as many as 300 people were slaughteredch the search for mass graves continues to this day. now, they will get an historic chance to make their case in court for reparations from the city and from other entities. today a tulsa judge heard arguments in a reparations lawsuit filed by those survivors and ruled this a trial can go forward, denying a motion to dismiss the lawsuit. attorneys for the survivors argue that the events of those two days in 1921 created an

ongoing public nuance for them and their descendants. it comes at a critical time viola fletcher, lessie benningfield randall and one other to see the reparations in their lifetime. you'd have to act three, all are centenarians. the oldest viola fletchers turns 108 years ago. joining me now is the founder of justice for greenwood and civil rights attorney. thanks for being here, mr. simmons. congratulations on moving the case forward. what does that mean in regular person terms? >> joy, thank you for having me on. it means that we -- we still alive, you know. that's the main thing that we wanted to have happen today was to be able to move forward this case. it's never before in the history of this issue for over 100 years, a case related to the massacre been able to move forward and we've been able to do that. that's the great news. the unknown is we don't know

exactly what's going to happen next because a judge only ruled from the bench which was unexpected to say that she was going to allow a part of a place to move forward. we don't know exact part is moving forward. we know we will have another day in court and we know we're still back when we did the story around the anniversary, we show this new york times interactive. it's jarring to see it, and it just shows the scope of what was destroyed, let's see if we can show it. we have this beautiful area, known as black wall street, it was prosperous and literally, this mob, a january 6th style mob came, burned, looted, shot people, drag people out of buildings, and just destroyed it. let me play for you with the mayor of tulsa, gta buying and told my friend and colleague tiffany cross when she went out there, and asked whether there

should be prepared for that. >> with you specifically, the biden family, as i'm sure you know, in slaved nearly 1000 people. and you inherited that wealth from the family, where the african americans here in the community had their wealth taken from them. so, when you say no cash payouts, i think people look at it and say, wow, you inherited wealth, you inherited your position life because of enslaving people who look like me, how do you reconcile things to that was then, and we don't owe you anything from that now? >> because you are asked me about reparations for an event that was a criminal act, 100 years ago. >> what would you say to people like the tulsa mayor who say, it's happened, it's over, no one knows anyone anything. >> i would say he was wrong, and that is what is our cases around, it was a criminal act, he's right about that.

it's not about what happened about 100 years ago but it's the continuing harm the continues to today, this public nuisance law is pretty powerful, because it states if there's a train act like the tulsa race massacre, and there's continuing harm, which there is, until that harm is abated or eradicated, and the public claim is still a valid claim, that's been a law in oklahoma since 1910. it's been affirmed on many occasions by the supreme court. mayor biden is wrong, it's unfortunate that he'd say something like that, it's unfortunate that he represents so many people intercity who have that type or attitude, you're showing the pictures that you're showing -- we're happy that a judge is giving us this opportunity for it. >> how did miss viola, miss lexi, and miss van ellis react to the case?

>> absolutely, it was just the greatest feeling for me personally after working with hundreds of survivors die without seeing these opportunities, to have those three in court with us the entire time, they were elated. i looked back, i want to talk to uncle red, he was just bawling and crying. he had told me, and summit text message a couple of days ago. let them, know they're trying to wait for us to die, but we're not going anywhere. that's the best feeling in the world, it's unbelievable. the humidity was there, it was packed, it was literally standing room only, just really excited about the team we put together. my colleagues, and my co-counsel's. just to get the small victory, we've got a lot of work to do, but we're excited about the opportunity. >> well, i'm always happy, we never do much good news on the show, thanks for so much for being here, please tell viola, and lexi, and uncle red. they were six and seven years

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speeches and tv ads, they want to support. that tells you everything about the grip he still has. >> that was the new york times jonathan martin talk about the hold of the former president, who lost by 7 million votes has over his party. with primary season now upon us, we're about to find out of that holder starting to fade, in georgia the early voting has begun on may 4th. on ohio, voters go to the polls tomorrow. let me tell you, it's a race to the bottom. a string of republican senate candidates to pamper the florida retiree. >> president trump -- i delivered ohio for president trump. >> the 2020 election was stolen from donald j trump. >> i don't think questioning, and trying to find a legal way of overturning the election is in any way treasonous or even slightly illegal. >> these people know that i supported trump in 2020. >> up until april 15th, it was a wide open race, josh mandel

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