with covid. there's a percentage of covid for people who do end up suffering an infection. >> thank you there. doctor, we feel like we just got started. we'd love to have you back soon to talk about the pandemic. thank you for joining us today. thanks for all of for getting up "way too early" on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. i do not believe that brett kavanaugh will overturn -- >> president will overturn -- >> you have obviously full confidence? >> i do. >> and now other things that susan collins believes. hot dogs are made with only the finest ingredients. >> i do believe. >> her childhood dog chumley is fine and living on a farm upstate. >> absolutely. >> charlie manson will be remembered more for his music than anything else. >> yes. >> that guy calling and asking for her social security number is really from the irs. >> hello, this is susan collins.

>> and susan collins will believe any lie no matter how obvious. >> i'm susan collins. and i've approved this message. well -- >> wow, that's an interesting -- an interesting commercial. willie, it worked in may, she won by nine. you got to say. >> it works. are hot dogs not made of the finest ingredients. >> no. really. okay. this morning, we have more on the fallout from the supreme court. chief justice john roberts confirms the leaked draft opinion that would overturn roe v. wade is in fact authentic, as democrats focus on the potential ruling. republicans zero in on the leak, assuming without evidence that it came from the left. >> that's really far-fetched. >> we'll assume why that assumption might be premature. plus, trump-backed j.d. vance wins the republican

primary in ohio. how will the guy who will once called himself a never-trumper. >> also, a guy who stabbed ukraine in the back. a guy who said that we needed to have the federal government seize all of the assets from the ford foundation because they were insufficiently loyal to donald trump. yeah. that guy. he's going to go up against centrist democrat tim ryan who won ohio's primary race last night. >> okay. we'll get reaction from congressman ryan when he joins us later this morning. also, the latest from ukraine, the first civilians evacuated from mariupol steel plant reached safety as the european union proposes a complete ban of russian oil by the end of the year. and breaking news overnight, comedian dave chappelle attacked during a show in hollywood by a man who jumped on stage with a knife.

chappelle is okay. >> did you hear about this willie. >> yeah, that's a terrifying moment. thank god he's okay. we'll get into the details of it. but the man was brandishing something that looked an awful lot like a gun which turned out to be a knife. but dave chappelle is okay. that's the head line. >> and chris rock ran up on stage, yelled will, is that you? is that you? >> it's in the new york post. >> come on. >> it's in the new york post. >> if i have to reach over to your shot -- >> no, that is the official newspaper of "morning joe." and -- well, i'll tell you what, we're going to tell you the whole story. but read the "new york post" hold on, willie is looking at the official newspaper of "morning joe." >> yeah. >> do you see the story there? >> i'll have to find it -- it was late breaking last night. >> you're wasting our time.

>> this is the paper of record, more on that story. >> yeah. >> wasting our time. >> along with joe, the time -- along with joe, willie and me, as you can hear, we have former aid to the george bush white house and state department alise jordan, and host of the circus on showtime, nbc news affairs analyst john heilemann. >> oh, my goodness. let's go. we begin with the latest developments on that leaked supreme court draft opinion overturning roe v. wade in an extraordinary step, chief justice john roberts confirmed the document published by politico, it's authentic. but noted it doesn't represent the court's final decision. roberts said he has directed the supreme court marshal to investigate how the draft became public. in a statement, he wrote in part this, to the extent this

betrayal of confidences of the court was intended to undermine the integrity of our operations it will not succeed. the work of the court will not be affected in any way." willie. >> it's fascinating, mika, how republicans handled this in the last 24 hours. much more focused on the leak that roe v. wade the strategy part of the talking points from senate campaign arms to be, quote, compassion on abortion policy. a statement reads this way. this is a draft opinion -- >> hold on, hold on, hold on! willie. did you just say the republicans position was to be compassion on abortion policy. >> yes. >> was this scott, the same guy who said we need to tax poor people, to be fair? >> yes. this is their talking point, anyway. we're about to hear the highest reaches of republican leadership echo it again and again and again. this memo from the campaign arm

reads in part this way, this is a draft opinion so we'll wait to see what the final decision of the supreme court is in the coming months. the leak of this document is troubling and indicative of the radical left's mission to undermine the institution of the supreme court. >> oh, my, that's wrong. that's the worst part. >> and the leaker should bed found, fired and potentially prosecuted. they're saying this is leaked by a democrat, or by a progressive, where there's no evidence of that whatsoever. here are the republicans staying 0 than message. >> whoever did this leak should be prosecuted and should go to jail for a very long time. >> i don't know who did it. i hope we find out because the person or persons who did it really struck a blow against the rule of law. >> do you take personal credit for abortion rights likely to go away for millions of people in this country? >> yeah, i think the story today is an effort by someone on the inside to discredit the

institution of the senate. >> republicans are also assuming, without evidence, that the leak came from the left. yesterday, a reporter offered senator ted cruz another possible scenario. here's part of that conversation. >> senator, what do you think of a liberal clerk who leaked this? do you have information that suggests that? >> because i'm not immoral. because i live on planet earth. let me answer your question, because this is obviously an attempt from someone who is unhappy about the direction the court is going to put political pressure on the justices to change their outcome. that is the only reason this gets leaked. you know that you're a reporter in washington, d.c. >> can i offer a difference? >> sure, let me hear your pin. >> and it was a previous draft one of the justices changed

their view and supported the decision. that's a completely reasonable scenario? >> you know what, i find that ludicrous, but if that's the case, maybe you'll win a pulitzer. >> it's not ludicrous. i do believe with senator cruz that it was leaked by someone unhappy in the direction the court was going and which direction they were moving. the right wing machine always turns into overdrive. always. by the way, i've just got to say, a compassion abortion policy for rick scott? lindsey graham and the republican party? when you have all of these states that are actually going to have no exceptions for rape, no exceptions for incest. no exceptions for the health, mental health, of the mother? i mean, it's shocking. they're talking about compassion. no. they always kick into overdrive.

whenever the subject of the u.s. supreme court comes into play, especially abortion. and it moves to shift the blame from monday's supreme court leak to those crazy people on left. the crazy people. "the wall street journal" editorial page suggested it was engaged democrats leaking the document for political gain in november. what a plotting nonsensical measure. wouldn't somebody actually know better if that works on the "wall street journal" editorial page. to let the opinion come out closer to the election. it's not about the leak. the story's actually about this radical decision. and it's later in the summer, it's closer to the election, and it motivates people that much more. of course that makes perfect sense. but, of course, there is nothing that made sense about right wingers' argument yesterday.

other right wing law professors actually -- they belong to the crazy radical center they produce from elite ie ivy schoo like yale. does that law professor mean like the crazy law students and crazy undergrads to graduated from elite institutions who led an insurrection against the united states government on january 6? those crazy ivy leaguers? or maybe it was j.d. vance a guy who spews conspiracy theories, stabs ukraine in the back and demands, demands that the federal government seizes the assets of the ford foundation because they are insufficiently conservative. of course, not. they weakly blame liberal clerks on the court because of how radicalized democrats have come over the last few years about the supreme court. i want you to think about this. they actually -- i don't know how they do this. i'll be honest with you. i know them.

i was in the party for years. what was i thinking it. but these people, these are the same people, these are the same people that stood and gave standing ovations to clarence thomas and jimmy thomas. how quaint that jimmy thomas' ideological brothers and sisters are delivering lectures on how the right wing has politicized the court. you can believe that b.s. so to the left would be more likely to leak the draft opinion because they don't respect the court or its rules. oh, really? like clarence thomas being involved in cases that directly impact his wife and her text messages? if only the left could show the restraint of j.d. clarence thomas, lindsey graham and the rest of the gop, oh, what a

wonderful, wonderful world it would be. the plotting argument that alito's majority had no reason to leak the court's decision assumes it was still the majority. three months after it was written in february. unlikely that somebody on the hard right was really pissed off that a justice moved away from alito's really harsh right wing diatribe on abortion. and instead, moved more towards roberts' way. it's a classic, hey, we've got the receipts, buddy. we've got -- don't even think about moving away from alito and taking a more nuanced path. because we have the receipts. you know, maybe that may be why the chief justice's statement started with a declaration that the leaked document, quote, does not represent a decision by the

court or the final position of any member on the issues in this case. you know to me, i could be wrong, maybe ted's right, maybe i'm wrong. but if you are just looking at this in the most machiavellian way possible, it makes far more sense it was a fanatical law clerk on the right who leaked a document to stop one of the conservative members of the court from going away from alito's position and a more nuanced path towards a destination. john heilemann, you hear all of this, all of this rambling on from the far right yesterday. and you know, when it first broke, you said, oh, okay, somebody was pissed off on the left. then i actually thought the thought, wait a second, that's not what happened. i want to talk to jonathan

lemire in a second because jon and i had a discussion. most conservatives, people who follow the court and know how the court works were telling jon and me throughout the day, this looks like somebody was moving away from alito's harsh position. and they were trying to be nailed down, by holding up this february opinion going, look, look, it's done. this right wing turgeon opinion on abortion, this is going to be the law of the land. don't even think of moving away from this position. and so, they leak this at the same time the concurrence is which is the time period now, the concurrences are start to going around. this is when john roberts starts working on kavanaugh. this is when john roberts starts working on amy coney barrett saying listen, we're conservatives here but we also have to protect the institution, guys. let's sit down and talk. what say you, john heilemann, regarding my 15-second question.

>> a great question, joe. a great question. you can read it back to me again? >> yeah, i sure can -- so, maybe -- >> look, i think -- in my experience, there are different kinds of leaks motivated by different kinds -- by different kinds of motives. if this is a strategic leak or a tactical leak, whatever you want to call it, a leak with purpose, the likelihood it's a leak as you suggest by someone on the right who maybe not angrily but in a cold calculated way saw happening what you're talking about. i think much more likely it would be kavanaugh than coney barrett. but could be either one of those. but the prospect of upholding the mississippi law but ending up with a concurrence -- a plurality opinion written by alito with three justices signing on to it. and then roberts writing a concurring opinion with two

justices along the line, you're talking about, which would take away the force of alito's position. he would not have a majority opinion that was governing the case. and so you would validate the mississippi law. but overturn roe v. wade. that that's some conservative decided to do this from keep that from happening. to keep a fracturing from happening on the right. i think there's a very plausible theory. there are leaks in our business and maybe i've had benefits of it various times where people reacted in irrational and emotional ways, people just get mad. if that's the case it's more likely to be created on the left. if you're asking where i put my money, i'd put it on a cold calculated clerk than on a blindly enraged left wing clerk in that situation. and i guess, what i'm trying to say, joe, the two words you like best of all -- you're right. >> okay, alise, you've been

listening patiently. we heard mitch mcconnell. only played a bit of that, he was asked again and again about the fallout. you're focused on the wrong thing. the story today is a leak. he was offering a lecture to the journalists in the room. you've been in the government, you know how things work, what do you think. >> i was frozen over. i agree with ted cruz. i can't believe that i'm saying that, but i think we're getting a little too cute here and too complicated. and you look at the time line of this, it's been a couple months. how many people have access to this draft? four or five clerks per justice. some admin people. probably under 100 people. that's still a fair amount of people. this isn't treated like a classified document. the offset is not that great.

it could be a spouse. there are many possibilities. we just don't know. but the idea that a conservative would do it to pressure justice kavanaugh seems to -- that just seems to good way to really back fire and get justice kavanaugh to dig in on his original position. if this person, if that was the position, i would say it stands a chance of back firing. but i really think it's not that complicated and we kind of need to keep it simple sheer. >> wow. i'm shocked by a couple things here, elise. but i want to touch on the part -- something you said that i wrote down here. because you say that it could have been a spouse of a member of the supreme court. do spouses on the supreme court actually get involved with this kind of thing? >> you know that was an interesting theory that was floated to me yesterday. that i hadn't even thought

about, because there wouldn't be -- this isn't like a classified document that it's against the law to show someone. you wouldn't think that a spouse would see an opinion. but it's paperwork. if it's something you carry -- >> like ginni thomas. >> exactly. exactly. >> so, there you go. there's a possibility too. >> there are many. >> there are many possibilities. and again, ted could be right. the people we talked to yesterday could be right. but, mika, there have been more than a few takes on why it could have come from the right. >> there are. and i think it is important to bring this up, because this has never happened before. this undermines the confidence in the court in so many ways. this is a very, very negative event for the u.s. supreme court. and the actual draft opinion itself, if true and if comes to pass will have unbelievable consequences for women. so, here's another take. a yale professor and former

supreme court clerk tweeted this. i assumed a liberal clerk leaked the draft opinion overturning roe. now, i think much more likely it was leaked by a conservative fanatically committed to every word of alito's monstrous opinion. timing, she continues, the draft was circulated in february. if a liberal was mad about it, why wait until april to send it to politico? the opinion will be out in june. what are the benefits of releasing it early? and a big downside, the focus on the leak itself instead of of the opinion. if you work inside the course, you know that the most concrete impact of the leak is to lock in this opinion, essentially as is. any edits at this point reveal jockeying between justices, undermine the majority and the court itself, embarrassing to the majority. and a university of texas law professor tweeted this. suppose you're a conservative justice committed to overruling

roe and casey. there are five votes for that result at conference. and justice alito circulated a draft opinion memorializing it. now, dissents are coming and you're worried about losing the majority. what do you do? >> i think that's the most important thing, about losing the majority. as you know, john heilemann, following politics as closely as you follow politics, i would say overturning roe v. wade had been the holy grail for many people regarding the supreme court. but i've got to tell you, when i was campaigning through the years, i can tell you that overturning roe v. wade was the holy grail for many conservatives, in all of american politics. it was goal number one. and if you think that you've got that insight, if you've got a majority opinion and somebody starts moving away from it, or even if they don't, you want to lock that down. you want to memorialize it. >> right.

>> but i would suggest, essentially if you think you're going to lose it. because, again, to politely disagree with ted cruz and elise jordan -- >> oh, joe. in the same sentence -- >> elise jordan, let me put it this way, to politely disagree with the cruz/jordan argument, if you're holding four aces, you hold four aces. >> yeah. >> but you don't do anything. if you start losing, you have to move. and it looks like that's probably what they did. but, again, think about how close they are right now to releasing the holy grail of their right wing politics. >> right. well, also, joe, you think about this, one of these things is true on both sides right now, the tribal philosophy on the left and right is intense, right?

you can imagine, you know, if you're in this case, in the conservative court, you know what kind of pressure there would be immediately if this were -- if this got out ahead of the actual opinion being issued. if you're a conservative trying to lock in that majority, as you said, joe, you know the pressure now on justice kavanaugh. i would say that this pressure exists even now that this has happened. the right, it is looking at justice kavanaugh is locking at justice coney barrett. and if they were now to deviate from the position that they took when they signed on with the opinion in draft form back earlier this year, imagine the wrath of the right towards those justices, in the way that the right has turned on john roberts. if you're brett kavanaugh or amy coney barrett, you like to say that you're immune. or that you're immune or you're not influenced in any way by the conservative movement and by the politics of this. but we know that that's not true.

and we know that's one of the most powerful clicks. as powerful as progressive pressure would be on a progressive justice. in a similar situation if you had this situation inverted. the clan of conservative judicial scholars and judicial activists, centered on the federalist society and some other quarters of the conservative movement is just as intense, right? you can't been on the supreme court in donald trump's administration. you can't get appointed if you're not on a federalist society list. brett kavanaugh, amy coney barrett owe their positions to the federal society. and to that, the pressure of that group. and so if you're a conservative wanting to lock those people in, what's a better way to do it, than hold them up, for the release of this draft opinion and say, they were there. they were true believers. keep them in those positions. keep them in the majority. >> well, think about sandra day o'connor. think about how she was ville

fied from the right for years because she deviated on roe v. wade. and now, you've locked these two down. how likely is it that brett kavanaugh or amy coney barrett will want to move away from that position. again, the roberts' statement, how important it that the roberts statement, mika, at the very top is saying, hey, wait a second. >> yeah. >> nobody's made their final decisions yet. >> you mentioned sandra day o'connor. joining us former prosecutor in new york. carlie weinstein, she was a clerk for sandra day o'connor and then judge merrick garland. she's now an nbc news analyst. what makes the most sense to you in terms of what happened here? >> i'm with joe and jon and amy who was actually my colleague, we clerked together for justice owe can connor. i think this is most likely a

leak from a clerk from one of the justices in the majority. i think that the keys there are chief justice roberts and the timing of everything that's happened here. we know that chief justice roberts was not in the majority. that he floated from oral argument a softer position, tried to play around with the idea that viability was not so central to roe v. wade. so it was possible to uphold this mississippi law without going as far as this draft opinion does. and the opinion that came out rejected that idea. so, now, it's his turn to circulate a concurrence, as amy writes. and i'll tell you something that surprised me when i was a law clerk at the court. they don't really debate, the justices, throughout their work on a case. they only get together one time formally to talk about their views about the case. that's right after the argument.

they don't hang out at the watercooler talking about what to do. the rest of their conversation, after that first meeting happens through the paper. so when a draft circulates and a concurrence circulates, that's a really big deal. that's when everybody gears up to see what's going to happen next. and i would guess given what chief justice roberts has said about the case and the general posture about wanting to keep the temperature down that he was trying to either peel away a vote as we talked about or to soften some of the sharpest spikeiest parts of this draft opinion, perhaps to make a play for introducing a rape or incest exception. maybe to be a little bit more sympathetic about precedent. and how women have relied on roe and casey. and the best way to keep people away from going with him, was to put this out there. and as you said, to try to lock

them down. >> tali, good morning, with mitch mcconnell, i'm going to put the leak aside for the moment. i'm going to talk about the practical questions around this draft opinion if it does in fact become the opinion of the court come june and roe v. wade is struck down. there are obvious immediate consequences in 13 states that have trigger laws. what legal resource and recourse does a woman have in those states and others that put in these laws that either outright ban or effectively ban abortion there? what happens to all of these women in the country? >> yeah, so the number is somewhere between 13 and 27 states where women would wake up immediately after this decision unable to get an abortion in their home state. and i've seen data that shows that, on average, a woman would have to travel 280 miles, rather than 36 miles to get to her nearest clinic.

even after the texas abortion ban went in effect, clinics in neighboring states became overloaded. the wait times there grew really radically. and of course, timing is really important when you are looking to get an abortion. they don't really have legal recourse. that's why they moved from the practical having to get out a place of jurisdiction, a place like new york or illinois where we do have a right to have an abortion that is enshrined in state law. but, you know, legally, the picture is really dim. and many states also have things like telehealth bans. or bans on being able to get pills, the kinds of things that you might be able to work around, even those are being shut down.

>> all right, msnbc legal analyst tali weinstein, thank you so much. clerk to sandra day o'connor. >> so, willie, we have different viewpoints here. most of us struck on this believe it was most likely leaked by somebody on the right. and somebody who tried to influence a decision either to change a vote or to soften things up, as tali said, maybe to add rape and incest exception. on the other side of it, of course, you have the cruz/jordan position. and, willie, just a programming note, the ted and elise podcast will be going on, we'll have greater detail today. >> wow, wow. >> ready to announce that, elise, how exciting. >> the rollout. this is just something. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> quickly before we go to break. we like it do this, talk. >> go ahead. >> mika, can you talk about, i'm

sure elise can do the same, your phone yesterday just blew up. the text messages, the calls. the people that were so concerned about this. i spoke to a member of my family, they went -- well, they went to a courthouse in another state to protest. people i have never known to be actually involved politically, this really sent shock waves across america. and especially women. and it wasn't -- you know, usually, i see these protests in front of the supreme court, i'm like, okay. the usual suspects on both sides go out. >> no. >> this was nationwide. this struck such a chord nationwide. women especially are so frightened by what alito wrote. >> i heard from so many women, women i never hear from, many generations. and a lot of frustration that weren't taken seriously when trump was first elected. when they were marching.

when they were trying to have their voices heard. and i mean, the bottom line is here, voting matters. every election, every time possible. and who we put in office matters. and i think women feel at this point that everything has been pulled back. everything they've ever fought for. and in this draft opinion, if it comes to pass. and it is a really, really, really bad moment for women. >> yeah. >> and we are feeling -- feeling like they -- elise, maybe you can help me put this into words. but it's -- it started with trump, and his election. but women in their gut knew something was very wrong. and that the end of a lot of our rights was potentially in the balance. >> yeah, i mean, this is going to be huge and seismic. and what i find most upsetting

about it, if this goes through as written, it's going to just further segregate the country, essentially, politically. and in some states, you have autonomy over the medical procedures you choose on your body. and in other states, you don't. and women who are poor are going to be disproportionately affected. and affluent women are overall probably going to still go about their lives as usual. and so just how this affects, you know -- how this fits into the broader scheme of american politics in this moment right now. and i just, you know, i wish that perhaps instead of donating to hopeless senate campaigns in kentucky against mitch mcconnell, perhaps, a better use of that energy and that money would be to go and to organize in places like mississippi and alabama and louisiana where

women need better health care. >> yeah. it takes us back decades. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest from hard-hit mariupol. russian forces are stepping up their attacks and attempting to storm that steel plant where hundreds of civilians are still holed up. plus, when it comes to ukraine, cities have been destroyed, thousands have been killed, but some experts say putin is actually showing restraint. admiral james stavridis joins us next to weigh in on that. also ahead, donald trump's pick, j.d. vance won last night's gop primary. ohio's open senate seat. >> wait, wasn't j.d. vance the guy who said if you're a christian, done vote for donald trump? >> yes. what that means for the midterms and trump's hold over the republican party. we'll have tim ryan who will face vance on the ballot this

november. and as we go to break, a programming note, on saturday, symone sanders sits down with an exclusive interview with first lady dr. bill biden. watch the conversation on the premier of symone right here on msnbc. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. right back.

biden: we have a crisis: the price at the pump. our prices are rising because of putin's actions. we need to double down on our commitment to clean energy. building a made-in-america clean energy future will help safeguard our national security. it will help us tackle climate change. this is a challenge of our collective lifetimes. there's no more time to hang back or sit on the fence or argue amongst ourselves. so let this be the moment that we answer history's call.

♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪

we turn now to the war in ukraine where russian forces resume bombardment of that watered steel plant in mariupol. hundreds of ukrainians and civilians are sheltering there. according to officials the russians tried to storm the factory after a temporary

cease-fire ended. two women were killed and ten others injured in the shelling. they also appeared for another urgent truce to evacuate more civilians from that factory. meanwhile, the first batch of evacuees reached the safety of ukrainian territory. evacuees who endured the weeks of shelling described the horrors while inside the plant. some are worried about their loved ones still trapped inside that sprawling mill. >> it was risk. it was risk. but they wanted to get from mariupol so, we decided it's worth it. and i have other relatives still in mariupol. perhaps one -- my uncle is in -- is in forces. so, i don't know where he is still. so, we're waiting. >> local officials in mariupol

say about 200 civilians and more than 1,000 fighters are still holed up in bunkers below the plant. joining us now former nato supreme allied commander, retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis, analyst for nbc news. the story from civilians leaving behind husbands and fathers continuing to fight. you have to marvel at the fighters who remain inside the plant. but why has it been so difficult to open the corridors to just get the civilians out at least. they're lifting drips and drabs come out and start attacking again. why not release all the civilians? >> if you're vladimir putin, you want to continue to be as harsh and terrorist as you possibly can on the population of ukraine. so what you kind of like is, oh, i'm going to let a few people out but, hmm, by the way, there are still hundreds trapped there. by the way, willie, before you even get to those trapped in the

steel factory, there's still probably 100,000 ukrainians in that city. holed up, under perhaps slightly better conditions. but they're at risk as well. putin wants to signal all of that. >> putin made a big show of saying we're refocusing the war on the donbas. on the eat. reconstituting his rooms getting closer to the border, better supply lines all that. and yet, it's still moving slow. what is going on with the russian military in the latest offensive in the east? >> yes. this has all of us very focused. and i'll give you three possible explanations and in kind of descending order of probability. number one top of the list, talkman's razor, go with the simpleiest explanation. and that would be incompetence. there's no magic wand that's been waved above russian forces

so the same lousy tactics that leads to procedures you sawed in the north are probably at play. so, number one, maybe they're just not that good. number two, i like this one, confusion in moscow. people around putin not quite sure what's going to happen next. an isolated president. and if i put myself in these shoes of russian commanders in the field, i'm going to be real conservative. i'm going to go real slow. i don't want to make any big mistakes because i don't feel confident with the leadership behind me. and number three, and i like this one the least and i think it's the least likely, is that the russians restaging, getting ready to go, may 9th, tuesday coming up, victory day speech. putin wants a big flashbang out of that. let's wait and see what happens tuesday. i'm still going to go with door number one. >> simon, what i don't

understand, how nato leaders have been able to come over, eu leaders have been able to come over. american leaders are able to come over, trains are able to come around the country. every time one the leaders there it's like they're rubbing putin's nose in it. why in the world, i mean, it seems to me even if you're like a 19th century armed force, you could tear up a country's railroad tracks. why haven't they done that? >> a big part of it is lack of capability in terms of precision-guided weapons. to take out a train line, think aboutit for a minute, that's a narrow target set. so, you've got to be able to really put precise fires on a very discreet spot. they haven't been good at that. they're really good add turning artillery on innocent civilians in apartment buildings. but to get at those railheads,

that's a u.s.-level precision-guided strike. >> i was going to ask you that. and i'm asking this for the benefit of our viewers who may not know all the things that you know, but if you were still running nato's military operations and you wanted to tear up railroad, railroad system infrastructure in a country in central europe, would it take you 15 or 20 minutes to do that? >> i will say this -- >> i'm serious. aren't the russians supposed to be one of those powerful armies? i'm asking, if you decided you wanted to take out a rail line in any country, how long would it take you to do that? >> a matter of hours, not days, if necessary. and, frankly, it's not just those kind of precision-guided fires that we're really good and we're discovering the russians are really bad at, i just keep

coming back to logistics. you know, it's boring to kind of figure out how do i get the artillery shells 600 kilometers downrange. how do i get that intelligence in the hands of my planners. all of that stuff isn't sexy. that's not "top gun" kind of stuff. but that's what war moves on, exclusion, competence, logistics. that's really where they're failing and that's where you're seeing our side of the fence putting the hands of ukrainians full of the tools of war. we're really good at that stuff across the board. >> yeah. >> well, you know, admiral, what i always say logistics eats strategy for lunch -- wait a second, that was you. >> yeah. >> i love it. and it's especially true in this war, isn't it? >> it really is, it's a foot race on two sides of a war zone. and the russians are losing a foot race to the best in the world. by the way, it's not just the u.s., we're seeing the other 29

nations of nato -- by the way, more good news for our side, if you will. and bad news for vladimir putin. on the heels of whatever vladimir putin says on 9 may, look, in a matter of days after that, for finland to formally apply for membership and look for sweden not far behind. two terrific militaries that are going to be joining us formally, i think, and i hope. >> all right. coming up, we've got a lot to cover. political stories, congressman tim ryan will be joining us at the top of the hour. walter isaacson and amy walter will be joining us for a huge conversation on the supreme court draft opinion that was leaked. but we continue the conversation after a break looking at david ignatius' piece on the war in ukraine. >> as david explains, they ran the ukrainians around in

circles. now, it's just the opposite. it's dominance on the part of ukraine and its allies. >> we'll be right back. can a company make the planet a better place? ♪♪ what if it's a company of people working beside friends and neighbors? pursuing 100% renewable energy in our operations. aiming to protect, manage or restore millions of acres of land. and offering you more sustainably sourced products so you can become part of the change. so, can a company make the planet a better place? at walmart, we're working on it, every day. (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ ♪ i've been to: pittsburgh, parkersburg, ♪ ♪ gravelbourg, colorado, ♪ ♪ ellensburg, cedar city, dodge city, what a pity. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪

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♪♪ it's 51 past the hour. live look at philadelphia this morning. >> that's beautiful. >> what a beautiful shot. >> yes, it is. >> so, david ignatius has a new column for "the washington post" entitled "russia is losing on the electronic battlefield." and david writes in part, among russia's most costly mistakes when it invaded ukraine was the expectation that it would dominate the electronic warfare part of the battle. instead, russia has stumbled and lost its way in the little known realm of intercepting and jamming communications an increasingly essential element of military success. ukraine's success has been remarkable, in part, because of

the widespread initial expectation among u.s. and nato commanders that russia would dominate the electromagnetic battlespace in this war. when the history of the ukraine war is finally written, the chapter on electronic warfare may be one of the most telling. and one where u.s. assistance was both least visible and most helpful." >> and we -- admiral, we read these stories about what's going on in ukraine, and sometimes, i just get the sense that we're not hearing the rest of the story, as paul harvey would say. of course, we hear about when generals get targeted and shot because they're having to use cell phones. you know what's behind that is obviously electronic assistance. but talk -- there's so many things that are happening on the ukrainian battlefield that are happening because of this

electronic -- and superiority that ukraine has. can you give in that for the viewers? >> i can. david's piece is spot-on. and kind of adding to david's front about losing on the electronic front, they're also losing on the pure information front. what i'm holding in my hand is, of course, a super computer that everybody in ukraine is walking around with. it can video, it can provide intelligence, it can go point to point. it can broadcast enormously. that is another done of this electronic war alongside what david is talking about. and here's the real point, joe, we ask help to the max, without putting any boots on the ground. we can put all the electrons we want in the ukraine and that we're doing that. and finally, final thought, cyber. a lot of mystery about why we haven't seen a massive russian cyber attack. one explanation, vladimir

putin's kind of holding it back like it's another explanation it's blunted by forces. again, you can move the electrons where it's hard to move the boots. >> all right. retireded admiral james stavridis, great to have you on. >> by the way, i talked about that lunch, mika, you know where we're going to have that lunch? >> where? >> admiral, we're going to pensacola. >> i'll be glad to show you the museum in pensacola, we'll go to the old bar, a piece of history. >> called what? >> the monkey bar. >> the monkey bar. i've been to the museum several tiles but i've never been to the monkey bar with an admiral. >> a lot to discover at the monkey bar. >> right. in. >> pensacola. coming up from never-trumper

to fierce supporter of the former president. we'll look at j.d. vance's evolution on donald trump. plus, comedian dave chappelle was attacked on stage during his set. we'll have the latest on that developing story. and top democrats are promising action to protect abortion rights. but what are the odds it can actually pass in congress? we'll have more on that, at the top of the hour, "morning joe" will be right back. dove knows we damage our hair a lot my hair i curl it. i have to use a lot of heat new dove hair therapy shampoo & conditioner with ceramide & peptide. it nourishes at a cellular level to rescue damaged hair. discover 10 x stronger hair with new dove hair therapy rescue and protect.

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republicans assume it came from the left. but a closer look at the facts suggests otherwise. we'll discuss the legal implications of the potential ruling. and the impact it could have on the midterms. and speaking of the midterms, the candidate backed by donald trump, j.d. vance won his senate primary in ohio last night. he will face congressman tim ryan in the general election. and congressman ryan will be our guest later this morning. john heilemann and elise jordan are still with us. joining the conversation we have the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire and publisher, editor-in-chief of the cook with amy walter. amy walter joins us. we'll start with ohio where j.d. vance is now the republican nominee for senate in that state. vance who was a big critic of donald trump back in 2016 won a tight race in the primary, after

trump publicly backed him about three weeks ago. he will face democratic ohio congressman tim ryan. this fall, for the seat that's being vacated by retiring senator rob portman. congressman ryan will be our guest in just a few minutes. meanwhile, in ohio's gubernatorial race republican mike dewine secured the nomination in his bid for re-election. former dayton may your nan wehle won nomination for governor. and a race between an establishment democrat and progressive left candidate. and the mainstream congressman shontel brown defeated nina turner. writer for the conservative website the bulwark, tim miller, had this take on the two takes after the ohio primaries. quote, for the second time in a

year, shontel brown has demolished nina turner, extending the streak over the progressive left. meanwhile, congressman j.d. vance, an insurrectionist who recently argued an authoritarian potus should ignore the supreme court. and said he doesn't care what happens to ukrainians to the senate. the parties are not the same. wow. >> yeah. so, amy, talk about what happened last night. how did vance win in ohio? >> well, he had the benefit of a really fluid field, first of all. this was -- there were a lot of candidates as you noted. and nobody really got much traction in this race, even though candidates spent a lot of money. i think it was something like $60 million spent on television. donald trump coming in at the last minute, giving j.d. vance

enough of a bump to get over the top. as you saw, he doesn't win a majority of the vote. he got something like 30% of the vote. it was enough to get him into first place. what's interesting to me is not just that the donald trump candidate won, it's that the rob portman endorsed candidate came in, i think, in fourth, very far back of the pack. it wasn't that long ago, you all, that rob portman won in ohio. he won in 2016, outperforming trump by seven points in that race. it wasn't that long ago, 2016, that john kasich easily won the primary in ohio pop those kinds of candidates they're no longer there anymore. donald trump's party is now the party until ohio and the party across the country. >> and you know, we looked so much in states like florida, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, ohio, there's been

such a sea change in ohio. you look at the results coming in last night, boy, in the rural areas, trump's word in ohio still gold. i mean it made all the difference in the world for j.d. vance. trump still has a massive way so far perhaps it's a small base of support in the republican party, but whatever it is, the more rural, the better j.d. vance did because of that trump endorsement. now, j.d. vance, the venture capitalist turned midwest was once again extremely against trump. and then he was for him, tweeted things about how much he loved mitt romney taking down donald trump, he'd go on charlie rose, he wrote for "the new york times," i think they profiled him on "60 minutes." >> he was a star. >> he was an elite's elite.

he's an ivy leaguer. all of these guys are ivy leaguers these days, aren't they? roll tide. and a venture capitalist, a guy from silicon valley, talking about how grand silicon valley was, with all of his money. well, msnbc showcased some of vances deevolution or evolution, whichever way you want to look at it. >> as somebody who doesn't like myself, the elites would write about donald trump, right. i'm a never trump guy. i never liked him. >> he's the best president of my time and he revealed the corruption like nobody else. >> i can't stand trump, i think he's obnoxious. >> i think he was a very good president. >> i take it you're not a trump supporter from what i've read, is that a fair assessment?

>> yeah. i didn't vote for donald trump. >> i'm 37 years old, certain the best president of my lifetime. >> consider how vance's professional bio is basically a hit list. he was a coastal banker and venture capitalist. an ivy league elite from yale school. a self-styled literary lecturer who mused about extremism in magazines like "the atlantic." and then -- i'm out of fingers on this hand -- and then, he pursued a perch within the coastal elite, pushing a trendy book where he claimed to explain the rust belt of the midwest, while writing from the coast. and then taking that tone, hillbilliology, to spend as much time as he could talking to his media elites about the rest of the troubled nation. vance also deleted his old tweets that slammed trump as,

quote, reprehensible and arguing that god wants better than trump. >> cultural outsider. i didn't come from the elites. i didn't come from the northeast or san francisco. >> you're out in san francisco now, right? >> that's right. >> working for peter till. >> yeah, i work for went of the venture capital funds that he co-founded. the things i care about are not about silicon valley. one way or another, i found my way to silicon valley. you think about the folks building the future and companies i just want to be involved in that. >> he's a yale educated lawyer. great opportunity. went to yale, got a law degree. >> i do think basic human honesty, it tends to pay off in the long term, or at least if you're honest it tends to pay off negatively. >> i'm sick of the big tech companies shutting us up. let's be honest, ladies and gentlemen, stealing the 2020

election. >> so, it's all on tape. it's all there. he's a hypocrite, he lies all of that. turns out last night, doesn't matter. >> doesn't matter. >> donald trump endorsed him. he apologized to something to donald trump. donald trump said look if i held what everybody said about me, i wouldn't have any politics. it didn't matter in the end, as long as he pledged allegiance in the end, his poll numbers went up last night he won by nine points. >> it turns out there were two audiences where it doesn't matter, having a total flip-flop from hating donald trump and loving donald trump. the first is donald trump. trump doesn't care. >> right. >> he forgives everybody as long as they come around at the right home and genuflect in the right way and kiss the ring. he doesn't hold grudges. he wants to stem that blessing and claim credit. in this case, the other people

who don't care are trump voters. and trump knows that. i give him credit in one sense. he put his -- he put his info macho on the line here and said, you know, i'm going to show everybody there were skeptics, including me, i'm like, i don't know, it seems like j.d. vance is getting a rise out of this. it turns out that last tailwind, without the polls in the race as amy pointed out the race was fluid. there were a bunch of republicans in the race. in the end, three or four who conceivably could have won last night it wasn't close last night. he's got almost a ten-point victory over josh mandel who was easily the winner in the field until donald trump endorsed. and i feel the bitter bile rise in my note when i say donald trump will brag about this today. >> sure. >> in the limited sense, you

know, in the limited sense that he demonstrated that he still has enormous power over his own party and their primary electorate. he'll be right. he has bragging rights on this today. but i'll also say this, this is a candidate -- ohio is becoming increasingly red in presidential elections. it's almost not a swing state anymore. sherrod brown has won three times. this is the kind of candidate that tim ryan can beat. if you look at the sherrod brown playbook over three victories, that's the matchup, blue collar democrat against an extremist republican. that's still a place you can win in ohio. >> we're going to talk to tim ryan in the next hour where he plans to beat j.d. vance. >> certainly, former president trump's endorsement record is actually spottier than he wants to acknowledge. he did, he put himself out on this one. vance was down.

trump got him over the finish line. and mandel wanted to grab trump as well. they'll could s could. and trump could have backed a candidate who could potentially lose this fall. speak to us, elise, that is a pattern we can see in georgia too, right? >> i think donald trump game out of the gates, the may sweepstakes for endorsements this is a good one for him. looking forward to pennsylvania senate, what's going to happen there, dave mccormick versus dr. oz. donald trump is going with dr. oz who is a full-fledged election denier and a strong ally for him in 2024, should he need that kind of backing.

then we go to georgia and it's different. in the governor's race, brian kemp versus david perdue. brian kemp is going to win handlely. the senate race is not one even in dispute with herschel walker. but you look and you can see the differences where donald trump's endorsement actually matters. so was this an early victory that means nothing? no, i don't think so. i do think it pushed him over the edge. you're going to see, you look in pennsylvania, it's very likely to push dr. oz over the edge, too, in places where a local leader has already established their track record. it's going to be harder for trump to have some impact. >> the latest developments with that leaked supreme court draft opinion overturning roe v. wade. in an extraordinary step, chief justice john roberts confirmed the document published by politico is authentic. but noted it doesn't represent the court's final decision. roberts said he had directed the

supreme court marshal to investigate how the draft became public. in a statement, he wrote in part this, to the extent this betrayal of confidences of the court was intended to undermine the integrity of our operations, it will not succeed. the work of the court will not be affected in any way. conservative columnist brett stevens has a new piece for "the new york times" entitled "overturning roe is a radical, not conservative choice." he writes in part, what is conservative? it is above all the conviction that abrupt and profound changes to established laws and common expectations are utterly destruct touf the respect for the law and the institutions established to 81 hold it. especially when those changes are instigated from above, with neither democratic consent more

broad consensus. it's also a matter of originalism to avoid an arbitrary discretion in the courts. alexander hamilton wrote in federalist number 78, it is indefensible that they the judges should be bound down by strict rulings and precedents which serve to define and point out their duty in every particular case that comes before them. let's bring in professor of history at tulane university, walter isaacson. and senior opinion writer and columnist for "the boston globe" kimberly store, former trial attorney. and co-host of sisters in law podcast, amy walter is still with us as well. >> amy, let's go back to you for a second because i am curious about the political fallout from this possible supreme court decision. you know, i thought, going into 2020, that susan collins would pay a fairly heavy price for

claiming to be pro-choice throughout her entire senate career in maine. and then, of course, she supported brett kavanaugh. and may be the deciding vote here on overturning roe. and she -- she teamed up with the federalist society, fund-raisers and many other ways that are pretty shocking to a lot of people in maine. and yet, she won by nine points. at the end of the day, abortion seemed to play no part in that race. what have you found about how some of these supreme court battles have played out in the past? and how do you think the ending of roe will play out in the future? >> that's such a good point, because we've had abortion battles for years and years now. we've always had roe as the fundamental sort of umbrella. and now that is actually gone.

i don't know that we can take those past lessons and apply them to the upcoming elections. and so, i do think that is a really important thing to remember. we are really into new uncharted territory, that it's dangerous to make assumptions about past precedent. at the same time, we know when it comes to the issue of abortion, it's much more complicated than it looks like on paper. the idea of overturning roe is very unpopular. but when you scratch beneath the surface and you ask things like, well, how do you think abortion should be regulated? should it be as little as possible? should there be some regulation? a lot of regulation? be legal completely? that's where things get a little more complicated. and a little more opaque. and most voters are not only let's do 100% no limits. or let's ban it completely.

they're somewhere in the middle. so, i do think where candidates themselves, especially in the statewide races, this is going to fought really most profoundly at the gubernatorial level and or the state attorneys general races. but where the candidates themselves go on this, if they put themselves, basically in that middle section, that, to me, just politically is a safer place to be. going at it either end of this, that's where you turn a contested race into a battle over that issue, instead of what we know voters right now, especially are focused on, which is just the overall environment when it comes to the economy, inflation, things like that. >> so, judge roberts, kimberly, has said this document is authentic. i'm fascinated as to what the sisters in law podcast will be talking about on this in terms

of just gut reaction. i want to hear your gut reaction. but also since the document is authentic, even if tweaked, as this comes to pass, if this happens, what does this mean for beyond the massive setback in women's rights that it will put on the table, what does this mean for other rights down the road? other consequences for women? >> yeah. that's a really important point, mika. actually, this is an emergency podcast the night that this document leaked to get our gut reactions at shock at the way that came out and shocked at the breadth of justice alito's opinion. not necessarily shocked at the outcome. keep in mind that laws in places like texas allowed to stay in place, restriction laws that indicated to us for a while that roe v. wade was in the crosshairs and would likely be overturned this term.

what at least for myself, i didn't expect, i thought perhaps the court would overturn it without overturning it and inch slowly into this territory, at least a little more slowly, by upholding these laws and claiming somehow they don't violate roe. instead this was just a full survey attack on roe, taking it down and eliminates it that due process right. rights that aren't specifically stated in the constitution but protected for decades, for generations, by court opinion. and these are things like the privacy right that roe was predicated on, that protects things like marriage rights. that protects against contraceptive rights and laws that prohibit what people do in the intimacy of their own homes. so i'm very concerned if you apply that same analysis that alito did, any of those protections could fall.

he tried to say that abortion was different. trying to distinguish it by saying by preserving life. but if you look at the analysis it could apply to any number of areas so this is a much broader opinion than i was expecting. >> walter isaacson, it's been a half century now since roe v. wade, a '72 decision that struck down texas law that banned abortion. this has been the holy grail for many conservatives, for evangelicals for that period of time. now it appears they're on the door step of having that overturned. you can speak to the history of the struggle around this war, and just how big a deal this is to both sides, if it does come to pass in june? >> you know the fictional character tom dooley said, the election returns, it was a wry thing but that wasn't the way it was for most american history. for most of american history, it followed a precedent.

it was above the waves of politics and we see something pretty shocking, which is the supreme court tends now to be more partisan and more politicized. and it means on something like abortion, that there's going to have to go back into the political arena. you're not going to be able to secure rights through the courts that you're unable to win on the battlefield of politics. and it goes back a bit to ruth bader ginsburg pretty famous 1992 speech right before she got put on the court, saying by doing it the way the supreme court did in roe, it pulled it out of the political battlefield. perhaps it would have been better had this evolved in the political battlefield. now, we're going to see, because i certainly think elections, especially the midterms are certainly going to turn on the issue of abortion rights. >> you know, kimberly, i remember when i was first campaigning in '93 and '94, in a district that jerry falwell

called one of the most conservative in america. i would be surprised how people would say they're pro-life, and whisper, you're not pro for turning roe v. wade, are you? so i follow up with what walter isaacson just said which is there have been a lot of people campaigning in a lot of places that have been able to hide behind the big bad wolf of roe v. wade, who now, if this does go back to the states, are now going to be exposed and are now going to be making decisions on rape and incest and whether you're making a 13-year-old girl who was raped by an uncle or a father, whether you're going to really make her carry to term. or somebody with severe mental health challenges. whether you're going to really take this absolutist position that they've always been able to

take, as long as roe v. wade was there in the way. what do you think about how this actually going to scramble american politics, if in fact, roe is overturned? >> yeah. i mean, and not to mention, joe, the cases in which people are just trying to get health care. women who may have complications during their pregnancy and need lifesaving care and won't be able to get it because there's no exception for health of the mother. keep in mind, going back to your original point, by and large, a decade from now, two decades ago, five decades ago, americans survived in keeping roe v. wade as law the law of the land in keeping abortion legal in circumstances in the united states. this is against that popular grain. it's also important to note, this is the result -- this didn't just happen overnight. this is the result of a long sustained very well-funded conservative campaign let by

conservative groups and members the christian right, to install members of congress. members of local governments in place, who would install judges who would be willing to overturn roe v. wade. this is why we are where we are. so, as you said, yes, now these members of congress, members of state offices will face an election season. what we don't know, and this gets to amy's point is exactly how this will play out. i know there's a sentiment this week that this will send voters, angry voters to the polls to make a chance. perhaps it will. we haven't been in this place before. we have been in place where is we saw, for example, george floyd killed and that not result in a flood of elections that were holding people accountable for not passing police reform. we saw sandy hook not result in outrage of killing of children in a school to pass gun reforms. i don't know how this ends in november and beyond. but it certainly is a point

where that is the power is now. the courts are what they are. they will be for a long time. if there's change that is going to happen, it will have to be done by the electorate. >> yeah, walter, i think we're only too old enough to remember a time when abortion just wasn't an issue. in the republican party. jerry falwell made it that. i brought up falwell before, suddenly with the moral majority and falwell in 1980, this suddenly became an issue. i grew up a southern baptist. you know, southern baptist convention, in certain states, actually came out in support for a women's choice. and i know that there are a ot of where i grew up looked catholics who have been against abortion. but being anti-abortion was always something that the catholic church took a firm stand on. but it's just so bizarre that

being an evangelical has been reduced politically to abortion. and that conservatism has been reduced to abortion the way it has. it has become the defining issue. and for people that think that it was always this way, talk about a time pre-1980, this just wasn't the case, this is an issue that republicans and conservatives began using to draw a wedge on culture issues between conservatives and liberals. >> and i think this is a very important point for what's happened to america in the past 50 years. is these issues have become much more partisan and divided, the two parties, in the way that the parties have not been divided on cultural lines before. in 1973, when roe was decided, it was decided by republican supreme court. a decision, very strong decision written by justice harry

blackman. a republican appointed by a republican. and back then you had large numbers in the republican party, you know from barbara bush to the elder, to many in the republican party who were part of planned parenthood, who believed in these things. likewise, you had democrats, i mean, look at both sides. you had democrats, especially in my home state of louisiana, but pennsylvania, as you know, that were ted -- >> ted kennedy. ted kennedy was opposed to abortion. >> what's happened in american life in the last 50 years, these partisan issues have divided the party on warring camps on deeply ideological things such as abortion. it's driven moderates out of the republican party. and driven people who are strongly pro-life out of the democratic party. and this great sorting is a very bad thing for, you quoted

hamilton and the federalist 78, supreme court is supposed to follow precedence. and we're not supposed to have everything divide us this way. i think it was, as you say, a concern group of evangelicals that decided to make -- that did make abortion the issue. and a litmus test for being a conservative republican in america. >> all right. walter isaacson, kimberly atkins stohr and john heilemann, good to have you on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," steve kornacki joins us from the big board to break down last night's primary results out of ohio, and what they mean for the midterms later this year. but first, armed services committee member congressman jason crow is standing by. he joins us on the heels of his trip to ukraine with house speaker nancy pelosi. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. oe." we'll be right back.

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with a 2-year price guarantee. call today. russian forces are stepping up attacks across ukraine again, hitting key infrastructure around the country. local officials say at least six train stations in the central and western parts of ukraine were hit yesterday. a number of explosions also rocked the western city of lviv, near the polish border damaging three power stations there. the city's mayor reported attacks knocked out power and disrupted water supplies in some areas. he also said two people were injured in the attacking. lviv largely has been a safe haven for diplomats and tens of thousands of ukrainians fleeing. it's also been a may have transfer port for major weapons coming into the country. joining me is congressman jason

crow of colorado, a former army ranger and recipient of the bronze star. congressman crow was part of the delegation to visit ukraine over the weekend with nancy pelosi and met with president zelenskyy. congressman, it's great to have you this morning. you got to sit across the table from president zelenskyy. what did he want from you? >> good morning, it was quite an honor to sit with president zelenskyy for almost four years in kyiv. it's really clear during that time that he's become an incredible historic wartime leader. his clarity, his focus, his mastery what's going on in the battlefield but also with the people of ukraine was mind blowing. he's an incredible man. it was a great opportunity. we sat down, i actually had the opportunity to talk to him for quite a while where we just talked about weapons, what systems they need. he understands what's going on. they need long-range drones, rocket missile weapons, that can

be engaged in the south for long distances and they need anti-ship missiles to open up the port of odesa and get food out to the rest of the world. because vladimir putin is trying to use food as a weapon. they've blockaded food exports. and the ukrainians need anti-ship missiles to stop that blockade and prevent hunger throughout the world. >> and some of that is included in the $33 billion package that the president laid out last week. you have experience on the battlefield. i'm curious in your conversations with president zelenskyy and what you saw inside of ukraine, your assessment of how ukraine has held up so well. beyond held up, but pushed back from the russian military, away from kyiv in the outset. and holding its own in the east to the russian border. why is that ukrainian military doing so well? >> they just defied all expectations. i think this is a reminder for everybody, armies on paper don't fight on paper.

it's not like you have a force sitting there on a ledge are and it marches off the ledger. it's real people doing the fighting. what ukrainians have shown, they're a proud people, they're a fierce people. they have ingenuity, and they have prowess on the battlefield and willing to fight for their hometowns. and the russians are fighting an unjust war. they were not prepared to fight this. they're committing war crimes, systematic rape of young children and young girls. blockading the food aid. the russians know they're fighting that war and that's why there are morale issues. so, as we continue to provide weapons to ukraine they will and will win this, but we have to move fast. >> congressman crow, what was the best estimate of russian casualties since the beginning of the war? and is it serving that the

russians have taken so many casualties and are still continuing on the fight, a point, you know, at a point in mod determine warfare that most armies would have, you know, proceeded, negotiated, but they seem to be sticking in there. what does that say about the potential for this to be a protracted conflict? >> the russian casualties are extremely high. some estimates are more than 10,000 killed in action. more than 25,000 wounded in action. to put that in perspective, russians went in with over 110 tactical group. each tactical group is about 1,000. we think they only have 70% of their combat power available. we think world wide, about 20% of the russian military in their combat units have been degraded. that's worldwide. so, they have taken severe casualties.

thousands of tanks, armored personnel vehicles. but the difference is vladimir putin controls the media. he controls russia. he's autocrat. he continues to control the tanks and this is why this is a military victory won on the battlefield by ukrainians. >> congressman crow, nice to have you on the show. i know the delegation as went to poland. while there's such intense fighting on the battlefield and strategic implications, options, and decisions to be made, there's also the story of the millions of refugees that have walked over the border into poland. and poland just openly taking them in. which, again, imagine any country doing this. taking millions of refugees in over the course of months. what did you find and hear from the poles when the delegation

went to warsaw? >> well, the polish people are doing unbelievable work. we had a chance to meet with the ambassador and spent some time with him. what he told us, you have a country of 38 million that has taken in over 3 million refugees. so they've actually increased the population of the country by 10%. just in warsaw alone, the population of warsaw increased by over 25% in the last months as they opened their doors. these aren't tent cities and they are opening their homes, providing food, welcoming their neighbors. it is truly an amazing sight that you see, poland open up their hearts, their minds, their wallets for their brothers and sisters in ukraine. because they know in europe, they're all in this together. this is a russian invasion against europe. against the world. and they're going to stand up and prevent it from spreading. >> congressman jason crow, thank

you so much for coming on the show this morning. and coming up, fresh off his senate primary victory in ohio, democratic congressman tim ryan is our guest at the top of the hour. plus, the reporter who broke the story about the leaked draft from the supreme court will be back with us this morning after chief justice john roberts confirmed the authenticity of the document. and we'll tell you about a scary scene overnight in los angeles. dave chappelle after being attacked on stage. what we're learning about the person who rush the comedian with a knife. that's all ahead on "morning joe." (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪

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it's 45 past the hour. a live look at 30 rock, a rainy day in new york city. let's take a look at some of our morning papers from around the country. the times union reports that new york governor kathy hochul has selected congressman antonio delgado as the state's next lieutenant governor. replace the lieutenant governor last month on corruption charges. and to atlanta, where the telegraph reports that a special grand jury has been selected for the investigation into whether former president trump and others attempted to illegally influence the 2020 election in the state. the investigation has been under way since early last year. a district attorney requested a special grand jury to help the case move along. and according to "the

courier-post" new jersey's ban on plastic bags begins today. grocery stores and retailers will no longer give out single use plastic bags. and most businesses, except supermarkets can provide paper bags. shoppers, though, are encouraged to bring reusable bags. willie. los angeles police say comedian dave chappelle was attacked last night on stage. chappelle was performing at the hollywood bowl. authorities say a man rush on to the stage and tackled him. police say the man was armed with a retractable gun that is a knife blade. chappelle was uninjured. he went on with the show. we'll have more reporting on this incident in the next hour. chris rock performed earlier in the evening was stepped to have stepped out on the stage and said was that will smith? >> oh, boy. a report from ohio after trump-backed candidate j.d.

vance won yesterday's republican primary. and the democratic nominee for senate in that race congressman tim ryan joins us at the top of the hour. also ahead, a manhattan judge refuses to lift a $10,000 fine against donald trump. plus is the premium court opinion eroding trust in the judicial system already. one of our next guests says the supreme court legitimacy already is lost. "morning joe" is coming right back. back from prom dresses

to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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sanctions. the bloc has found it much harder to reach consensus on imposing measures that could reduce or fully eliminate russian oil despite weeks of talks. two eu nations, hungary and slovakia are demanding exemptions due to their heavy dependence on russian energy. the european commission which is the executive arm of the eu is proposing a complete ban on all russian oil. but noted it would not be easy for some of its member states. a manhattan judge has refused to lift the $10,000 a day fine against donald trump. the former president remains in contempt of court for failing to comply with the subpoena from new york attorney general letitia james. trump appealed the contempt ruling and asked the court to stop the payments while it plays out. the financial means he continues to owe 10,000 a day every day from april 26th. that's totaling $90,000 as of

today. trump had been ordered to turn over documents in the ag's civil probe on march 31st. james office has been investigating the trump organization's business practices for more than two years. she has previously said that the trump organization engaged in fraudulent or misleading practices. in a statement just last night, trump called the probe quote the greatest witch hunt in history. that's a good one, jonathan lemire. i haven't heard that one before. where did he get that one? >> he needs some new material, he has been using that line for a long time. that $90,000, that starts to be real money, especially for someone who is not as wealthy as he portends. the real take away from this is that in new york, this, the civil case being pursued by letitia james is really where the energy is. we know in reports that the

criminal case being investigated by the manhattan district attorney has long been almost been put aside, that the grand jury is not going to be renewed so it appears that trump is going to evade prosecution there but the civil case certainly cob an impact on his wallet if nothing else. we should also keep a careful eye on the events proceeding in georgia, and that grand jury just empanelled. legal experts think there's far more legal peril there for the former president than in new york, and we wait for the developments from the january 6th committee and their hearings coming up in a couple of weeks. >> a lot of moving parts in the legal world for former president donald trump. still ahead, donald trump won ohio for j.d. vance last night, proving he still remains a force in the gop. but what will happen come november. we're going to talk to democratic congressman tim ryan about that next on "morning joe." ongressman tim ryan about that next on "morning joe.

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it is one minute before the top of the hour as we launch into the 3rd hour of "morning joe," a live look at capitol hill this morning. and the closely watched ohio senator race now sent trump-backed republican candidate j.d. vance will face centrist democrat tim ryan in the general election. steve kornacki will be at the big board just ahead, and congressman ryan will be joining us in just a moment. plus, the fallout continues from the supreme court after chief justice roberts confirmed that leaked draft opinion that would end federal protection for abortion is indeed authentic. we'll discuss the shock waves being sent through the u.s. legal and political system and what it means for women. plus, the political reporter

who first broke the story is back with us this morning with more. also, the latest from ukraine, the first civilians evacuated from the mariupol steel plant reach safety as the european union proposes a complete ban of russian oil by the end of the year. we'll get analysis from retired admiral james stavridis, and clint watts will be at the big board showing us the latest with the troop movements in ukraine. welcome back to "morning joe," it's wednesday, may 4th, hump day, elise jordan, and jonathan lemire are still with us. >> and of course from the ted and elise podcast available on apple or wherever you get your podcasts. or you can find her on twitter, if you want. we're going to start with the latest developments on the leaked supreme court draft opinion, overturning roe v. wade, chief justice john roberts confirming the document

published by politico is authentic. roberts said he has directed the supreme court marshal to investigate how the draft became public. willie, this has never happened before. >> it hasn't, and republicans really want to focus on that leak more than the potential decision. the strategy, part of a memo of talking points from the senate republicans' campaign arm to be quote compassionate on abortion policy. that's from the republican party. a sample statement reads in part, this is a draft opinion, so we'll wait to see what the final decision of the supreme court is in the coming months. the leak of this document is troubling and indicative of the radical left's mission to undermine the institution of the supreme court. it's wrong and the leaker should be found, fired and potentially prosecuted. we note there that they seem pretty certain that it was someone from the left. there's no evidence of that. republicans for the most part have been on message. josh hawley of missouri tweeted it should go without saying that

if a justice leaked this, he or she should face impeachment. here are reactions from other senate republicans. >> whoever did this leak, should be prosecuted and should go to jail for a very long time. >> i don't know who did it. i hope we find out because the person or persons who did it really struck a blow against the rule of law. >> we spent decades trying, you're responsible for the 6-3 majority, do you take personal credit for abortion rights likely to go away for millions of people in the country? >> i think the story today is the effort by someone on the inside to discredit the institution of the senate. >> democrats say that the president of roe being overturned and the restrictive trigger laws coming into effect without exemptions or rape and incest, will shock the public and motivate voters in november,

what is your response to that, how does that change the midterms? >> that's not the story for the day. the story for today is what i just said. >> if roe is struck down, do you see a need for federal abortion restrictions, legislation in congress? >> look, all of this puts the cart before the horse. we have three supreme court clerks, and they all explained the procedure. and our entire conversation today was about what i've just been talking to you about, and you need, it seems to me, excuse the lecture, to concentrate on what the news is today, not a leaked draft but the fact that the draft was leaked. >> so i'm sorry, the old white guys, mitch, is going to tell us what the story of the day is. he's going to tell us what the story of the day is. that's rich, mitch. you're going to tell us about

the rights, the 50 years of rights, the decades of precedent that has just been spit on and thrown away in this draft opinion. might be tweaked a little bit. but the bottom line is this is setting women back in so many different ways with so many different consequences, and you're going to tell us that the story is the leak. really? the leak is fascinating. it's historic. it's never happened before, and whoever did it, it's interesting because i think we're going to find out who did it. i think some people already know who did it, and i think a lot of people are already alluding to who did it, and it's not who you think, mitch. but even if it is, that's not the story we care about. okay. the story that women across america and the men who love them or the men who might like sex care about is our fundamental right to abortion that this draft opinion overturns and that's the story, just to give you a sense of news

judgment and what people care about, that's what they care about. just -- i just had to say that, i'm sorry. that was disgusting, that was sickening to watch, to tell us what the story is. to tell the press what the story is. to tell us women, who are at the focus of this story, our rights what happens to us, our health care, our daughters, our sisters, our mothers, you're going to tell us what the story is, a leak in the supreme court. it's fascinating. it's unprecedented and there is a fantastic trail to be followed there, and it should be, because that shouldn't happen. chief justice john roberts even said that. it's a story. but it's not the story. okay. get it right. for once in your life. >> whoever did leak that, any republican or democrat, whoever leaked that, first of all, they should be disbarred.

they should never practice in their entire life. if there is a law that can send them straight to jail, they should be sent to jail, but all day yesterday, the right wing noise machine that churns into overdrive whenever the subject of the united states supreme court comes into play moved quickly to shift the blame for monday's supreme court leak on those crazy people on the left. the "wall street journal" editorial page suggested it was enraged documents leaking the documents for political gain in november. i mean, come on. you got to do better than that. that is such a plodding, nonsensical argument on so many levels. it would be so much better, instead of making this story about the leak, making the story actually about a 50-year precedent, a 50-year constitutional right. >> confidence in the court. >> being overturned in the most radical of ways in the harshest of language. it would be much better if you just let that happen in july. because that's closer to the election.

it will cause far more outrage, and it's a much cleaner argument. you know, other right wing law professors bemoaned the crazy radicals that are being produced from a leak, ivy league schools. oh, really. like j.d. vance, like the guy who said that the ford foundation's assets should be seized, and they should be seized because they're not sufficiently pro trump. or maybe the insurrectionists who actually led an insurrection against the united states government on january 6th. or maybe all of those ivy leaguers whose few conspiracy theories who are glib best about ukraine and again, who want us all to forget that they took part in an attempt to overthrow a peaceful election and presidential campaign. they blame liberal clerks on the

court because of how radical democrats have become. that's what they claim, and how they politicize the process. think about it. isn't it quaint that ginni thomas's ideological brothers and sisters are questioning you on how the left has radicalized the court, suggesting they would be far more likely to leak the draft opinion? yeah, yeah, ginni thomas who supported the insurrection, ginni thomas who would write the president's chief of staff and they would both talk about how jesus wanted an insurrection against the united states,mented to undermine democracy or maybe clarence thomas, a guy who didn't recuse himself from case after case that had to deal with his wife's involvement. if only, if only these left wing radicals that we're hearing are being produced by liberal law

schools and sent to the supreme court, if only they could show the restraint of ginni and clarence thomas or lindsey graham or the rest of the senate gop. the plotting argument that alito's majority had no reason to leak the court's decision assumes that it was still a majority decision three months after it was written in february. more likely, actually, that someone on the hard right was angered that a justice moved roberts' way. it was a classic, we have the receipts moment. this may be why chief justice roberts' statements started with a declaration that the leaked document quote does not represent a decision by the court or the final position of any member on the issues in the case. that makes far more sense that it was a fanatical law clerk that leaked the document to stop

from moving to roberts' path to a pretty radical destination. >> extremely radical. >> i want to get back, elise, to what mika was talking about because -- and the reason we talked about the leak was because it's all republicans wanted to make this about yesterday, and they were pointing fingers at the left. we don't know who did the leak. you and i may have a difference opinion. one thing we can all agree on and that you know far more about is how this is going to impact not just young women in mississippi but single moms in mississippi. caitlan flanagan wrote in her moving piece on abortion a few years ago, it's usually single moms or married moms that for one reason or another are forced to have an abortion. in states like mississippi, states like alabama, and states across the deep south, you're

now going to have also girls who are victims of rape and incest who are not going to have that option anymore. >> that's the human tragedy of it, and that's what the story is all about. and you know, we can talk and speculate about the leak because we want to know -- we want to be able to predict what the outcome of this seismic decision is going to be, and so, you know, as we are talking about who possibly did it and what their motivations are, that's personally what my interest is just to try to gain some understanding of the motivations and where this actually is in the state of play. it does seem, though, that if this is the end of april, and this is something that's going to come up at the end of the term, i think it, unfortunately for those who support roe v.

wade, and want it to continue to be law of the land, i just am thinking that this is probably leaning in the other direction. >> right. >> let's bring in the reporter who first broke this story, senior legal affairs reporter at politico, josh gerstein and dahlia withwick who writes about the courts and law for slate and hosts the podcast amicus. good to have you both with us. josh, judge roberts confirmed your reporting yesterday, the authenticity of the document, and elise was just talking about the timing of this. given the timing, is roe v. wade, is it dead? >> i don't think it's an absolute done deal because i still think we haven't played out the potential impacts of the unprecedented event of the opinion being leaked and published. i mean, since that hasn't happened before, we don't know,

does it mean it stiffens the spine of certain justices who might want to bring down roe v. wade or might be open to that idea and therefore they don't want to appear to respond to any type of public pressure. that was a very kind of defensive statement by chief justice roberts yesterday, you know, aside from the acknowledgment that the draft opinion we published is, in fact, authentic. or does public reaction and a fear of actually taking this, you know, very significant step cause one justice, which might be all we're really talking about here to pull back from the brink a little bit. that said, you know, it's worth remembering, mika, abortion rights have retreated a fair amount in these states we're talking about over the last ten to 20 years to the point where i think there's six states that have one abortion clinic in the entire state, and states like texas where, you know, you have the massive, massive state and

very very few places you can get an abortion. let alone if for some reason you find you need it in the second trimester, you know, good luck to you at that point. >> but given that judge roberts says this will not impede the work that's being done, the leak, you just referred to the fact that there could be reaction to the leak within the court, and you know, jockeying, but does this draft opinion have a chance of being drastically changed between now and june? probably not or is there a possibility? >> i think there's very little chance that it would be drastically changed. perhaps some harsh edges or some of the harshest language could be tweaked. whether or not we see an opinion like this by the end of june, by some members of the court, but is there any chance that what appears, and based on our reporting at least in the initial stage of the process is

a majority of the court willing to take this step to bring down roe v. wade. does someone in that group waiver, and when joe referred earlier to the "wall street journal" editorial, that seemed to be an effort to tell the conservatives in that block, don't waiver. justice kavanaugh, perhaps justice barrett, take the full step, don't be afraid to do it, and don't break off at our reporting, and the reporting of some others suggests that chief justice roberts may be inclined to do. >> i want to talk through your piece a little bit. it's titled the supreme court's legitimacy is already lost. quote if the supreme court indeed strikes down roe v. wade, years of conventional wisdom about the courts and its concerns about its own legitimacy will be proved wrong. the staggering lack of regard for its legitimacy is exceeded by its vicious disregard for the real consequences for real pregnant people who are 14 times

more likely to die in childbirth than from terminating a pregnancy. the mississippi law has no exception for rape or incest. we will immediately see a raft of bans that give rights to fathers, including sexual assailants and punish with ever more cruelty and violence women who miscarry or do harm to their fetuses. the days of pretending women's health and safety are paramount of concern, be afraid of what comes next in terms of personal autonomy and liberty for lgbtq protections and the right to contraception and equally afraid for the abstraction of an independent and principle judiciary, no matter what happens next, that is already lost. dahlia, i'll let you expand on that a little bit. we're not completely surprised by this draft opinion that we saw based on the oral arguments, reaction in court last december. what are the impacts as you see them to this court? >> i think that one of the things that's really tricky, and

i guess you all teed it up at the top of this hour is that we have to hold two ideas in our heads at once. one is that we should, of course, with all due respect fo mitch mcconnell, be focusing on how this is going to affect women, pregnant people. i think we are looking at as i looked at in the piece, a huge up tick is going to come of charges of women who miscarry, and harm their fetuses: all of that is coming and it is existential, and we should be talking about it at the same time we need to be talking about the legitimacy of the court itself, and that doesn't mean focusing on the sort of agatha christy, who done it. i don't think that's where we should be focusing, but we should be focusing on the court is dealt a crushing blow, and that's what you heard in john roberts' statement yesterday. this is an absolute gut punch, not just to the justices, their ability to sit in conference and talk freely with each other.

there has been a presumption of absolute secrecy at the court since the founding and certainly in the last five decades there has been an absolute lockdown on this kind of information getting out with a handful of exceptions. so not just the legitimacy of the court's intramural conversations and trust but a massive national crisis of legitimacy in an institution that i don't think we can afford to lose confidence in, and so one of the things i was trying to sort of play out in that piece is it's not good for the political right or the left to have a court that started this term with a 38-40% approval rating, the lowest since gallop has been polling is going to go further south, i fear, and that's not good for any of us. >> good morning, it's jonathan lemire. i wanted to go a little further on what you were just talking about. far long time, the supreme court was one of the few institutions in the country that seemed to be

beyond reproach, above politics. many, at least on the left argue that changed in 2000 with the gore versus bush decision and it has been a slide ever since. are there efforts -- can there be efforts, things they could do to prepare that in terms of the public perception but also internally that will these justices in the wake of this leak, no matter what side was responsible, how can they trust each other? >> well, i think that the court faced this full with, as i said, these extremely low approval ratings, and well earned. really, this was a self-own because it was based on things like the shadow document making a bunch of very very controversial decisions late at night without an order, without briefing, right, that's how the texas bounty law came into effect. the court comes into this term with a huge amount of national concern and suspicion, and instead of doing anything as you suggest to be more transparent,

to do things out in the open, to be less partisan, less sharp in their language to each other, the court decided largely to blame the press and individual members of the court. we had justice alito saying that it was the press that was bringing the court down in the public estimation. we had justice barrett saying it was really the press's fault for misrepresenting what the court was doing, and even justice breyer saying there's nothing wrong, we're not doing anything different. we're good friends, all getting along, we're all above politics, look somewhere else, and all of that happened instead of the court taking a look at they have no ethics rules, no code of rules that applies to itself, it doesn't disclose, frequently does not disclose its own financial conflicts of interest. the court could have, i think, when it saw that the public

respect and esteem for the court was spiraling, the court could have done a whole bunch of things, internally and externally, and chose to do none of them, and chose instead to shoot the messenger. that's how we got where we are. >> and josh, you're obviously the messenger of the latest big story on the supreme court. i'm wondering what the reaction has been to you, toward you, and also curious about the court's lack of transparency throughout this process, whether it may actually bring up a need. some people are suggesting that perhaps this process needs to be more transparent. >> well, i certainly agree with dahlia that in many of the cases the court handles these emergency cases in the so-called

shadow docket. you know, it doesn't do a good job explaining what it's doing. in fact, one of the weird aspects of the way it handles those cases which often involve elections and other matters of great urgency, is that sometimes the dissenters explain why they disagree with the court's position, and the court never explains why it's acting or why it's not acting, which is an utterly bizarre outcome, and, you know, i do think there have actually been some moves by the court to try to offer some brief explanation in more cases. but there's still, i would agree that there are a number of criticisms of the court that they're not as transparent as they could be. you know, without opening necessarily their internal deliberations to c-span, you know, to quote president obama from a while back. i think there are many things they could do like open their arguments to c-span, you know, that there are things they could do to bring themselves into the

modern era. they have been kicked there a little bit by covid, there's no doubt they fully embrace the significance of the role they have, and in some respects, the court is operating on a horse and buggy basis here in 2022. >> slates, dahlia and josh gerstein, thank you for being on this morning. ahead at the top of our 4th hour, we'll speak with nbc news justice correspondent pete williams for his latest reporting on this. let's move to ohio, now, where congressman tim ryan is the democratic party's choice in the state's senate race this november. the moderate democrat easily won the nomination, defeating two lesser known challengers. yesterday, he promised to focus his campaign on the people. i want you to be a part.

i want you to bring republicans to our events. i want you to bring independence to our events. i'm telling you, we have to care about each other. we have to love each other. we have to care about each other. we have to see the best in each other. we have to forgive each other. we have to show some grace, and we have to put workers front and center in the economy in the united states of america, not the hedge funds, not the banks. >> ryan will take on trump-backed j.d. vance who won the republican primary battle. and ohio's democratic nominee for u.s. senate congressman tim ryan joins us now. he's in his car. i love it. he's on the run. >> congressman, good to see you. >> middle east got to go. >> he doesn't have time. he's moving. >> campaigning door to door. >> so congressman, it seemed the take last night was that the lines have been so divided. republicans and democrats are so divided against each other,

especially in states like ohio that it's a pipe dream to think that you can get any republicans on your side. what do you say to those people? >> that's going to be the beauty of getting them on board. the big number last night, joe, and mika, great to see you guys, it's been a while, is that matt bolen, who was the anti-trump candidate in the republican primary got 23% of the vote. he said the election was legitimate, he didn't go kiss trump's ring, and he got 23% of the vote, and those voters are going to become ryan voters, we're going hard after them. you add into that the eastern european voters, we're getting a little wonky here, but in cleveland, toledo, ukrainian americans, the poles, the lithuanian community, they find j.d. vance or j.p. mandel repugnant, and his comments on ukraine, so there's a lot of

people here. plus the economics, i mean, j.d. vance rns quite frankly, i think has already disqualified himself. he said, you know, this country is a joke. and he said he's not comfortable in ohio anymore. those are two disqualifying statements for somebody who wants to represent ohio in the united states senate. >> congressman, good morning, as you know much better than any of us sitting here, your state is moving red. the last two presidential elections, donald trump won by 8 percentage points. j.d. vance hitched his wagon to donald trump, was down by 10 points, won by 9 points. how do you fight as a democrat in that state, the trend toward republicans. >> again, j.d. vance only got a third of the republican volts so it's not like trump endorsed him and it was this overwhelmingly 70 or 80% of republican voters went for him. again, this anti-trump candidate got almost a quarter of the votes. ohio is not a red state.

it's a red, white and blue state, it's an economic freedom state. it's a state that wants to focus on building stuff, investing into infrastructure. sherrod brown has won three times as a democrat, a current sitting democratic senator here. people in ohio look at the candidate, and they say who's most ohio, who's fighting for us, who's coming to see us, who's talking about taking on china, building, you know, building the industries of the future, like building the batteries, building electric trucks, building electric cars, how do we get our natural gas from eastern ohio to eastern europe. we can knock vladimir putin's legs out from under him. i have been talking about this and fighting for these things for 20 years, and j.d. vance, with the $10 million check from a silicon valley billionaire who wants to pretend like he's an ohio guy, we're going to kick his rear end up and down the

ohio river. >> congressman ryan, good morning, jonathan lemire, great to see you again, the trends in ohio, at least on the presidential level have gone decidedly red, you know, and those are some head winds that could face you and other democrats elsewhere in the country. the race may have changed this week with the leak of the draft opinion from the supreme court that suggests that roe v. wade could be in danger. i want to get your sense as to how that will impact the race that you're running. >> it's going to have a big impact. joe was saying earlier, this is a freedom issue for women. this is an issue of freedom for working class women and moms. in ohio, where we have very extreme laws around abortion, rape and incest. so basically j.d. vance and these other folks are telling a mom or a young woman that if she

gets raped or if there's incest, that the state, the government, is going to make you have -- bring that pregnancy to term. that's insane in a free society, in a country that's been built on the value of freedom. so when you look at, again, back to the matt dolan candidacy and the republican primary, i think that affected his numbers because he primarily won in cleveland and columbus, and a lot of those suburban areas because i think those voters find that position repugnant, and those are going to be tim ryan voters. i think it's going to have a big impact. >> congressman elise jordan here. you clearly are on the ground campaigning and talking to ohioans about the challenges that they're facing. what are you hearing from your constituents and from voters about rising inflation, and are you concerned that the biden

economic agenda could potentially be a downside to your candidacy and tie you in with that as a democrat. >> you know, i can be in cleveland with home health care workers or i could be down along the ohio river, you know, talking to service workers at a mcdonald's, and you're absolutely right, this inflation issue is real. it's hitting people hard. and i think, you know, that we need to pass an immediate tax cut for working class people. again, the child tax credit, we need to advance it. the earned income tax credit, we need to advance it. a general tax cut for working people to advance it. these folks haven't done anything wrong coming out of the pandemic and anything else. we've got to put money in our pocket. i'm trying to push anybody in washington who will listen to pass this to have an immediate impact on these workers. i think when you're trying to do this, the medium and long-term is, bring these supply chains back. i mean, there's a reason we're

having all of these issues and all the real smart people over the last 40 years. let's get rid of the jobs in america, and ship this stuff to china, and now we need it, and we can't get it because of their zero tolerance policy. short-term tax cut for working people, and small businesses who may need it. and in the mid to long-term, we've got to fight to get these supply chains back into the united states in places like ohio. >> ohio's democratic nominee for u.s. senate, congressman tim ryan, where are you going next, you're on the -- i guess you're leaving. >> like willie nelson, on the road again. >> yeah, we go everywhere, man. we're going to be in dayton, we're going to be in toledo, and so we're -- cincinnati, we're making the rounds today. >> okay. enjoy. thanks very much for coming on the show this morning, and still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i hope the guy in the backseat is okay. >> they're fine. >> vladimir putin has been called a war criminal for

bombing women and children in ukraine. but some military analysts say things could be worse? much worse? we'll explain why they think putin is actually showing restraint. a hint, it is not out of the goodness of his heart. also ahead, comedian dave chappelle is said to be okay after he was attacked while performing in los angeles last night. we'll have the latest reporting on what happened there. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions,

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the deputy commander of the far right group said at least two women were killed and ten other people were injured in the shelling. he also appeared for another urgent truce to evacuate more civilians from that factory. meanwhile, the first batch of evacuees from the factory reached the safety of ukrainian controlled territory. the evacuees who endured those weeks of shelling described the horrors they faced while inside the plant. some of them remain worried about their loved ones still trapped. >> it was a risk, but they wanted to get from mariupol, so we decided that it is worth it, and i have other relatives still in mariupol, perhaps one of my uncle is in the forces so i don't know where he is still. so we are waiting.

>> local officials in mariupol say about 200 civilians and more than a thousand fighters are holed up in bunkers. joining us now from our nato supreme allied commander, retired four star general james stavridis, chief international security and diplomacy analyst for msnbc news. you hear the stories from the civilians who have been released leaving behind husbands and fathers who continue to fight. you have to marvel at these fighters who remain inside the plant. but why hasn't it been so difficult to open these corridors and just get the civilians out at least. they're letting dribs and draps out and they continue to attack the factory. >> if you're vladimir putin you want to be as harsh and terrorist as you can on the population of ukraine, so what you kind of like is, oh, i'm going to let a few people out, but by the way, there are still hundreds still trapped there, and by the way, willie, before

you even get to those trapped in the steel factory, there's still probably a hundred thousand ukrainians in that city holed up under perhaps slightly better conditions but they're at risk as well. putin wants to signal all of that. >> putin made a big show of saying we're refocusing the war on the donbas, on the east. reconstituting his troops, getting closer to the border, better supply lines, all of that, and yet it's still moving slow. what is going on with the russian military in this latest offensive in the east? >> yeah, this has all of us very focused. i'll give you three possible explanation in kind of descending order of probability. number one. top of the list, go with the simplest explanation, we were just having a segment on that a moment ago. go with the simplest explanation and that would be incompetence. there's no magic wand waved above the russian forces so the

same lousy tactics, techniques and procedures up north are probably at play. so number one, maybe they're just not that good. number two, i like this one, confusion in moscow. people around putin not quite sure what's going to happen next. an isolated president. and if i put myself in the shoes of the russian commanders in the field, i'm going to be real conservative. i'm going to go real slow. i don't want to make any big mistakes because i don't feel confident with the leadership behind me. and then number three, and i like this one the least, and i think it's the least likely is that the russians are restaging, getting ready to go, and that on may 9th, which is tuesday coming up, victory day speech, putin wants a big flash bang out of that, so let's wait and see what happens tuesday. i'm still going to go with door number one. >> admiral james stavridis,

taung. -- thank you. and coming up, dave chappelle attacked on stage in los angeles. thankfully chappelle is okay, and brings to mind another incident of a comedian being hit while telling jokes. that's next on "morning joe." e . that's next on "morning joe. (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ ♪ i've been to: pittsburgh, parkersburg, ♪ ♪ gravelbourg, colorado, ♪ ♪ ellensburg, cedar city, dodge city, what a pity. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ your spirit is stronger than your highs and lows. your creativity can outshine any bad day. because you are greater than your bipolar i, and you can help take control of your symptoms

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los angeles police say comedian dave chappelle was attacked on stage last night. he was performing at the hollywood bowl when a man rushed up and tackled him holding a weapon. nbc news national correspondent miguel almaguer reports. >> reporter: chaotic moments on stage for comedian dave chappelle tuesday night after a man attacked him during his set at the hollywood bowl. los angeles police confirming chappelle was attacked during his live show by a male suspect armed with a weapon called a

replica gun that when discharged correctly ejects a knife blade. in video footage posted to social media, a man is seen running on stage and tackling the 48-year-old comedian during his set at the netflix is a joke festival. the lapd says the suspect was in the audience, attending the show when chappelle was about to exit, the man jumped on stage, rushing at him, attempting to tackle him. it's another incident with a comedian on stage after that oscar slap seen around the world. >> will smith just smacked the. [ bleep ] out of me. >> and in an only in hollywood twist, video posted last night showing chris rock joining chappelle on stage after the attack. >> was that will smith? >> in recent months, chappelle has been criticized for including what some have described as transphobic material in last year's netflix comedy special, the closser, but

there was no immediate details regarding a possible motive. uniform security hired for the show intervened, pulling the man off chappelle, detaining the suspect. video shows security restraining the suspect backstage at the hollywood bowl. and show a man on a stretcher being placed in an ambulance. lapd confirming that the man who rushed the stage was taken to the hospital for injuries and evaluated. chappelle was not injured in the attack. after the incident, chappelle seen returning to the stage with actor jamie foxx. fans cheering him on. a wild night for the comedian that was no laughing matter. >> that was nbc's miguel almaguer reporting, and earlier this hour, we spoke with congressman tim ryan who won last night's democratic primary for u.s. senate in ohio. still ahead, steve kornacki breaks down the results and previews the congressman's general election battle against

republican j.d. vance. "morning joe" is coming right back. j.d. vance. "morning joe" is coming right back

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eric judge hit a home run. a blue jays fan who retrieved the ball handed it to a young boy wearing judge's 99 shirt. >> that's really cute. >> he smelled the ball. smells like evil. >> no. that was kindness, joe. >> look at that. i hear all the time that canadians watch "morning joe." they're so kind. if that happens in new york, obviously we've never seen anything like that at yankee stadium. it was a nice moment. >> so cute. >> we have to talk about the

evil empire, because you just had alex, a fan of the evil empire, put up this horrific -- it's like sports porn, porn outrage. 18-6. the yankees have won like 78 games in a row now. the red sox, we're lucky if we can scratch off a win or two once a month. right now, yankees are looking really tough. they're more conditioned this year. they're not drinking beer in the dugout or smoking cigarettes. of course, they got rid of their catcher, who wouldn't even bend over to tag a runner out at home plate. >> there's always that. they set aside that late '70s lifestyle that held them back for so long. the yankees have now won 11 straight. it pains me to report the red

sox did manage to win last night. they're fortunate that their early season struggles are overshadowed by the celtics. they won last night, beat the bucs. red sox are not doing much of anything on the field right now. back to that video clip, canadians are the best of us. it was instant that this fan caught the ball. he celebrated for a split second, saw the yankees fan there, the kid. immediately without hesitation handed it to him. the kid burst into tears. my own children would have burst into tears had they been given that home run ball. that's because it was judge's ball. >> look at this. >> my kids would be like, what, take this away from me. had that happened in the bronx, it would have been the other way around. the adults would have snatched

the ball from that poor child's hands. >> we love canada. let's bring in right now somebody who loves canadians buying his books. it's mike lupica with a new book "robert b. parker's revenge tour" which is the tenth installment in the best selling sonny randall series. >> kids love that. >> parents love this. mike, before we get to yet another best selling book, let's talk quickly about the yankees run. why are they so darn good this year? >> they're playing better defense. the starting pitching has been so much better than people thought it would be behind garrett cole. the bullpen has been unhittable. you can never go wrong with boston college. they have a kid named michael king whose era is .061 coming

out of the bullpen. he described shaq's appeal as this country loves great big action heros. that's what judge is. he's got nine home runs. the yankees are going to wish they signed him because he decided to play it out and boy is he playing it out. >> "robert b. parker's revenge tour," this is the tenth installment of the sonny randall series. >> yeah. it's my fourth. joe, i am the luckiest guy writing. i get to go from working with james patterson to continuing the characters of robert b. parker. sonny randall is a boston private eye. this is the kind of private eye that mika would be if she had become a private detective. in this case, interestingly enough, she's hired to find the missing offense of the boston

red sox. i'm just kidding. two cases have sort of become one case. people who love robert b. parker because i'm also in the fall going to write my first spencer novel. i bring in spencer and hawk about halfway through. it's such a fun story. she is such a great character to write. i tweeted out this morning this is a good week to have a smart, tough, independent woman as your main character. >> amen. >> nice. i love it. >> congrats on the book. while we have you, let's get you real quick on the other big sports story, the nba playoffs have sort of captured the nation's attention. the games have been really good. what has grabbed your attention to this point? >> the kid in memphis. i don't think the grizzlies are going to win the title. he had 47 points. he does things that you think

are physically impossible in midair. i think at one point he scored 15 points in a row. i still think the warriors are going to end up in the nba finals, but this kid has become the human highlight show. he just does things you can't believe and he's up against steph curry last night but he's the guy you want to watch. and your celtics, by the way, came back big time last night against the defending champs and may look like about 57,000 threes. this has been a great time for the nba. >> it really has. we just want to thank you for coming on and talking about robert b. parker's revenge tour. it's on sale now. we're at the top of the hour so we've got to cover some other stories, but please come back. i want to talk about the book some more and talk about that missing boston red sox offense.