if it's wednesday, it's election result day out of ohio. voters tested the power of trump's endorsement on the right. democrats had the turn out on the left. what it means for the midterms ahead. plus, the bombshell leak of a draft supreme court ruling overturning roe is scrambling the political landscape already. as a nine-term house democrat is attacked for his stance on abortion by his democratic primary rival. and president biden addresses the eu's proposal to ban russian oil imports. it's a big move for the eu and germany as putin's forces continue their assault in eastern ukraine. welcome to "meet the press daily." if it's wednesday, it means voters voted somewhere

yesterday. a bunch of votes cast in indiana and ohio. essentially kicking off midterm season. the primary season, givings us our results from the first senate pry their in the 2022 cycle. a chance to begin answering some key questions about the power of the trump right and the progressive left at the ballot box. as we head into what is becoming a more chaotic midterm environment. we'll start with the race we all had our eyes on. including the former president. jd vance came out on top. eight points ahead of his closest challenger. less than 33% gives you the nomination. in less than three weeks vance went from middle of the pack to victor after receiving the former president's support. we should note, nearly 60% went with someone other than vance. many of the other candidates were trying to be as trumpy as

vance. >> i have absolutely got to thank the 45th, the president of the united states, donald trump. thanks to the president for everything, for endorsing me. i got to say, a lot of fake news media out there, and there are some good ones back there, and bad ones, too, let's be honest. but they wanted to write a story that this campaign would be the death of donald trump's america first agenda. ladies and gentlemen, it ain't the death of the america-first agenda >>well, it simply passed a first test. the tests get harder. vance will take on the democratic congressman tim ryan who easily secured his party's nomination yesterday. and the gubernatorial race, trump did not endorse but sort of his image was certainly projected on to the primary race. the incumbent republican governor mike dewine won the

nomination. he received 48% of the vote against outspoken trump accolades. it tells you there is power to trump's endorsement or nonsupport. in just a few moments, we'll talk to dewine's democratic challenger, nan whaley who won the nomination yesterday despite being outspent by a good degree. what can we take away from yesterday's races? it's a potential sign that progressive strength is ebbing. in a rematch of last year's special election, primary incumbent democratic congressman shawn tell brown blew out nina turner by a whopping 33 points. last time around, brown won by six points. we'll get to that in a moment. it deserves its own sub segment, if you will. on the republican side, it's only one state's worth of data but it looks like a trump

endorsement may not get you all the trump votes. it can be enough to take you to the top of the crowded field. if you're a trump skeptic, you better be an incumbent with a long history in your state. it looks like the republican electorate might not have enough appetite. how did this break down in the last 10 days in the race? we have been covering the races on the ground. steve kornacki will break it down for us. von, two weeks ago, j.d. vance, josh mandel, mike gibbons, even matt looked like a coin flip race. it was a race to 25%. >> reporter: 18 days between trump's endorsement and last night's primary 20 percentage leap. you know, donald trump's influence on the election was

notable here. we had talked over the last two weeks to a great number of folks who were hesitant about j.d. they had great reasons as to why they should be based off comments he made in 2015, 2016, 2017. now he'll be the nominee out of ohio on the republican side. donald trump may have some losses in 2022, but there is undoubtedly a reality that by years' end this republican party will be even more molded into his vision. you know, j.d. vance is going to be taking over for rob portman, who is retiring. walked away with 6 percentage points of the entire republican electorate here. two weeks from now, we're looking at pennsylvania, pat toomey who voted to convict donald trump will be out of office come the end of 2022. even if donald trump's candidate doesn't walk away with it. mccormack will be in the molded mind set of trump. those are the realities here.

it's a big first win for him. >> it was interesting to me that j.d. vance he was a goodwiner, if you will. he was magnanimous to everybody including matt dolan. what do you make of that? i guess it meant like guys like portman rallied around vance. >> reporter: he put out a statement and said he's behind vance. in the republican electorate, he walks away with about 22%. he was the only candidate who said he would not have objected to certifying joe biden as the winner in 2020. that is where there is a reality here within the republican party. even look at the likes of mike dewine and the secretary of state who, you know, had been surrounded by some figures here. he was thought of at one time as being a little bit more of a protector of the old guard. but he was ultimately on the rally stage two weeks ago with j.d. vance and with donald trump. here in ohio, the land formerly

of john kasich is very much in the donald trump wagon now. >> i want to play a little bit of a clip from tim ryan. he has a ton of money to run against vance because the left is not j.d. vance's polarizing, it means it should help ryan spend some money. he's already spending it. let me play a clip of the ad and ask you about ryan's strategy. >> j.d. vance left ohio for san francisco to make millions and invest in companies that profit from globalization and free trade. he became a celebrity. cnn analyst, and a big hit in washington cocktail parties. now vance said he feels out of place in ohio. he wants to represent you in the senate? what a joke. >> all right. tim ryan is making it clear he wants to see who is more ohio and who is more washington. i get the message he's trying but he's an incumbent member of congress. is it going to work? >> right. i think he's going to be going around the state like he has the last days.

i know him and whaley, mayor of dayton who will be the democratic gubernatorial candidate who will make the case here, you know, they better understand here the state of ohio and j.d. vance was, you know, out of those cocktail parties here. i was talking with tim ryan yesterday and he said he would make the abortion case here front and center as part of his campaign. arguing that individual freedom means something here. you know, i think for the democrats in the state, you've got to look at jared brown in 2018 was able to pull off his own re-election bid with a six-point win. it's going to be an uphill battle here. >> that's for sure. von hill yard on the ground, thank you. let's bring in steve kornacki at the big board. steve, i know what jumped out at me was turn out. when you look at 2018, 2022, look, it's one state but it's an important state. it got a lot of attention. the turn out numbers look pretty bleak, if you're a democrat.

>> i think that's the thing as we get more and more primaries on the board, chuck. is there a disparity in terms of party enthusiasm in 2022. as opposed to what we saw in 2018. remembering that 2018, obviously, was a great year for democrats. it was a democratic way. we're wondering if 2022 is shaping up similarly for republicans. we've had three states now go in the primary process here. we can start to compare a little bit. indiana is incomplete. there's two we can look at here. start with texas. in march we had a texas primary. overall democratic turnout in texas was up 4% from where it was in 2018. on the republican side, in texas, it was up 27%. so you saw much more significant jump there on the republican side. now, again, in every one of these states, there could be extenuating factors. there was the race for attorney general on the republican side in texas. a couple of things that might juice turn out. again, that's why we look to see

if there's a pattern. indiana incomplete. we'll see if it joins us. we mentioned ohio. and this is what ohio looks like. democratic turn out down 27% in their primary. relative to 2018. on the republican side, turn out up 28%. again very similar to that number you saw in texas. again it's a hot senate race. national attention. open primary. maybe there were some democrats who thought, hey, you know, that's where the action is. i'm going to vote in that race. you know, tim ryan suggested that maybe there were democrats there voting for dolan in the republican primary. now you got two states where you've got republican turnout up near 30%. you have two states where the democratic turnout is just not tracking with that relative to 2018. so north carolina and pennsylvania and these states coming up. we'll see if it becomes a pattern. >> you could stretch it back to november of last year when we saw disparities in turnout on the right and the left in certain base constituencies.

>> south jersey, you know, it was the republican area. the core republican area. it hit the turnout it dwarfed what you saw in north jersey, which is the reason it was a three-point race. reason enthusiasm. >> yeah. we've seen it in the polling. you're starting to see it here again. two is not a pattern but two is concerning, if you're on the d side of the aisle right now. steve, thank you so much. making our first national appearance since capturing the democratic gubernatorial is nan whaley. the first woman to be nominated by a major party for governor in the state of ohio. welcome to "meet the press daily." >> good afternoon. >> let me start there. you won your primary and you got outspent. that's good news for you, i manage. when you see the turn out, how concerned are you? >> look, i think we have to always be paying attention to

how people are coming out. certainly the republicans in ohio also decided to have two primaries this year. another one coming in august because of the rick mass and the gerrymandering they won't fix. i know you have covered that extensively. there was a lot of confusion because we didn't even know if we had a primary until about 30 days before it happened. >> last night in your victory speech, you wanted to make -- you seemed to want to make potential common calls with those that ran against mike dewine in the republican party. some of them were rather trumpy. and the reason they ran against them perhaps are not the same reasons you're running against

him. >> we've seen over and over there's a real frustration about people being forgotten and ignored. particularly by the state house. you know, our state house has been called the most corrupt by the fbi in the country. and, chuck, that takes some work. when you have a governor who has been in office since i was 10 months old, we see real opportunities of really getting to the focus of investing in communities and families. and i think that's what this is about. people get to different solutions. we all agree that our state house needs changed and we want them to give us a look. >> how central do you believe the issue of abortion is going to be in your general election campaign? given what we think is coming from the supreme court, thanks to that leap >>well, i think it's a huge deal. it's something we've been talking really on this race in the primary and in the general

because of how extreme mike dewine is on the issue of choice. you know, mike dewine prides himself in being the most anti-choice governor in the country. he says it himself. he's the most pro-life governor in the country. he's already directed the attorney general to institute the heart beat bill, should the roe piece we saw come into fruition. just last week, we had an extreme legislature on the trigger ban they were moving through say that it was an opportunity. now mike dewine has said nothing on this. and i'm calling on him to say what does he think about this? does he think, you know, people that are human trafficked and raped have an opportunity when they don't get to make a choice between themselves and their families and their doctor. that's how extreme it's getting in ohio. ohio is a pro-choice state. we had a poll about four years ago that showed that 61% of ohioains believe in women's choice. these kind of extreme ideas

where mike dewine is in the hospital room is a big problem for ohio women across the state. >> can you sketch out your position on this? where do you draw limits on the issue of abortion? >> well, look, i think that we need to make sure we have access. i've fought with pro choice ohio and planned parenthood to keep our clinics open. i think it's a personal decision for women. i don't think government should be involved in it. i think it should be between the doctor and the family and the woman that is going through this. i thought that my entire career. we don't see that. we see that, you know, if roe likely to fall, that, you know, rich people in ohio will get to be able to fly to illinois or new york and poor women won't have that opportunity to make these type of decisions. there's been a lot of coverage lately about what kind of women get an abortion. it's usually someone that is

tough situations their family and what to do. i'm proud of the support i've gotten from planned parenthood. we need to make sure that women have access. we've seen already how devastating this can be in texas. it will be worse in ohio. >> just to clarify, you you don't believe there should be any government -- any sort of government-passed limitation on when a woman gets an abortion? >> i think this between a woman, a doctor, and her family. i don't think mike dewine should be in the room when these decisions are being made. these are tough, personal decisions. right now the discussion in ohio is whether or not a 13-year-old who is raped the -- it has gotten incredibly dangerous. now we're looking at making decisions that are very, very extreme because we have the most extreme governor in the state.

-- in the country. >> if you're elected governor, you may be dealing with gerrymandering. a super majority in the legislature which could override your veto. you saw it in neighboring kentucky. a democratic governor vetoed a fairly radical bill and it got put into law anyway. are there any powers you have as governor to prevent a similar situation in ohio? >> certainly it's a big deal for us and we're disappointed that the governor didn't pay attention to 73% of the public that voted for fair districts. that's a huge challenge for us. there are other opportunities that the governor in ohio can protect access by, you know, appointing a pro choice head of public health in the cabinet to really work on access and work on those opportunities. and, you know, secondly, it should not be lost that the

districts, the state house districts will be redrawn in the next governor's round. it could, if they do their job, we could have fair districts. something mike dewine is not willing to do. >> obviously it would have a direct correlation with what the abortion law in ohio may look like. nan whaley, democratic nominee for governor of ohio. thank you for coming on. the political issue that could scramble l the midterms. how abortion has taken the center stage in texas. we're live in the lone star state next. in the lone star state next

under district attorney gascón, i prosecuted car break-ins. all repeat offenders, often in organized crime rings. but when chesa boudin took office, he dissolved the unit and stopped me from collaborating with the police on my cases. now home and car break-ins are on the rise because repeat offenders know they can get away with it. chesa boudin

is failing to do his job. there's a better way to keep san francisco safe. recall chesa boudin now. welcome back. as we spoke about with nan whaley, abortion will be a big part of the midterm conversation. a message from president biden yesterday was, quote, it will fall on voters to elect pro choice officials this november.

less than three weeks until texas primary runner, jessica continues to highlight the differences between herself and the incumbent on a range of issues. now including abortion rights. so, garrett, you know, sometimes i look at a campaign and i see them shift gears. and i look at it and think, oh, they must be behind. what is the state of the runoff? >> well, it's interesting. i was down here a couple of months ago before the primary and the main thing we talked

about was the fbi investigation that quaire was involved in. that didn't materialize in the primary. we haven't heard from the fbi since. the abortion leak has given the race another central issue around which to revolve. you saw sisneros calling on the leadership to endorse her. she had elizabeth warren speaking at a fund-raiser last night. warren hammered them on the issue. specifically abortion and immigration are the two key contrast issues here. and in my interview with cisnero is this morning, she tried to raise the stakes on the women's health protection act, which passed the house last year on which it was the only democratic no vote.

tick sums up the way she's trying to frame the end of this race. the idea of him atz joe manchin of the house. and in an interview tonight with the rally with clyburn. i sunt he might not be uncomfortable with that framing if you turn it around a little bit as someone helped hold the majority in a seat that he believes has uniquely qualified to hold and cisneros might put in jeopardy if she becomes the nominee in a south texas district that may be trending more toward republicans over time. >> as for her call on leadership, we've seen it, i believe. correct me if i'm wrong, i know jim clyburn is campaigning for him. it would be unusual if the house leadership didn't support an incumbent here.

skblr typically speaking the house leadership will back it. and the fbi investigation still hangs out over this entire race. we have not heard from the fbi since the raid. he told you he's cooperating with the investigation. maybe argument he's not a target. but that's from him and not from the fbi. that piece of this is still hanging out here. but, again, no sign of house leadership going along with cisneros' suggestion to stay on the sideline. >> an important word he used was koochting. i have a feeling he may get more details for us later. garrett, thank you. we'll take a deeper dive later today on chuck toddcast.

i spoke with two democrats. we wonder if we control the lead of the midterms. get it wherever you get your podcasts. abortion, trumpism, rising inflation, president biden's job ratings. what it means for the white house and the midterm. what it means for the white house and the midterm. >> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? safelite makes it easy. >> tech vo: you can schedule in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> man: looks great. >> tech: that's service on your time. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ if you have type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure you're a target for chronic kidney disease. you can already have it and not know it. if you have chronic kidney disease your kidney health could depend on what you do today. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga is a pill that works in the kidneys to help slow the progression of chronic kidney disease. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men,

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welcome back. hours ago president biden gave remarks on the administration's

effort to lower the deficit and lower cost for families. the president took a stance on abortion this week. and he seemed to be test driving a new midterm message. here it is. >> one part of the next things that will be attacked because this megacrowd is almost extreme political organization that is existed in american history. recent american history. >> it wasn't the first he made during the remarks. definitely sort of a new framing that the white house has. the president's concerns come on the heels of an election night in ohio. the first big midterm primary. abortion is quickly moving to the top of voters' minds. it could be a potentially seismic shift this year. i have a pretty expert panel on set to discuss the developments.

>> what i take from the r side, i think it's going to be counter intuitive from a lot of conversations. it's a conversation that the trump guy wanted trump's endorsement and took him to cross the finish line. trump guy didn't get a third of the vote. right. i think there's a way to look at

this. you're looking at trump's endorsement. you're not getting a third of the vote in ohio and going i don't know how much power he has to mobilize and move his vote in a primary. i know how he can do it in a general election. i'm not sure about a primary. >> what do you take away? >> i take that the democrats are maybe at risk of colluding themselves with the power of the abortion issue to help them. the abortion issue is drives intensity among the most committed democrats. it'll raise money, boost turn out in all kinds of districts, and democrats always win. and at the same timings the party away from the issues that matter in the parts of the country where control of the house and senate will be decided. back to the part of the country where the democrats win easily anyway. >> this is where i'm curious about the biden message day.

i think they're looking. at the end of the day they all want a message. he's got to deliver. >> yeah. they get a choice. not a referendum. it seems to be step marked. >> it seems to be step one. the question he was asked is what are you going to do next. he didn't actually answer the question. there's not really a next step to take here. yes, the biden administration is looking into things they might be able to do on the federal level through the agency level. but when you get to the hill, the conversations i've been having with senators for the last day and a half is they want to do a vote on some version of the women's health protection act. the reality is nothing has changed since the last time they did that when it failed. and the republicans are making it, frankly, a little bit hard to make this a referendum because of the way they have messaged on this. they have every turn pivoted away from talking about the substance of this draft opinion and instead turn to talking about the leak as it felt. >> i think that's telling.

>> yeah. stunning. >> and it's multiple pro life bills. >> there are so many elected republicans are that are scared. >> yeah. it's telling. and mcconnell didn't want any part of this yesterday. it's telling. there's very few times you have a dynamic changing moment. >> yeah. bush 9/11. could it be a dynamic changing moment? we talk about ohio. ohio is a state where you see the democrats open up a gender gap the way we did nationwide. nationwide, you know, democrats are winning women voters by better than 10 points. it becomes very interesting. i know your point is that let's talk about something else. but if you're a woman today and they are stripping your rights away from you to control your body, i'm sorry but that's the thing. >> see this is what i was warning about 90 seconds ago. the reason the republicans are running away from the abortion issue, it's not because they're

scared their side is unpopular. they're running away because they know the election is about food prices. it's about gas prices. it's maybe -- >> if the election is about food prices, they win it all. >> right. >> but the democrats are going to say we don't want to talk about food prices. we want to talk about the threat to abortion rights. you're making the same mistake as the republicans are trying to avoid and you may not have any choice because you have so much money, so much energy. >> yeah. >> here is what -- >> yeah. here is why i degree. is the mobilization energy mobilization is a problem democrats have. if you look at young voters and vote es of color and certain segments. >> yeah. that's what alito does. >> right. it's not there are more voters on the republican side. you see the ebb and the flow and you see the flow back in the midterms. this is an opportunity for democrats to mobilize and energize a group of young voters and young women voters in a way of no other issue they have.

they're not mobilizing and marching because of gas prices. >> you won't be able to know that until you get to november. i think for the last 49 years, most of those young women have been under the impression this is not something they even have to worry about because it was settled precedent. to your point, republicans are able to run away with it. they know they're not earning any points. for democrats, it's an unproven theory of whether or not it will elect fie voters. by the way, democrats are lagging in the enthusiasm. >> i assure you, we won't let the republicans run away from the issue. women's groups have already put up front $150 million behind this. >> that was even before. >> they are not going to be the run away from the issue. >> yeah. and that may be exactly they're not running away from the issue. they're running to the issue. it puts them on the train to nowhere. an election about food and gas prices. >> i disagree. >> look, how would you, i mean, you've got to address voters' concerns. >> yes. >> where they're at. >> yes.

>> and you can't just do. >> no. you have to -- you have to chew gum and walk at the same time. >> yes. >> you can talk about pocketbook issues. every democrat can talk about. you can talk about health care issues and that. at the same point, you can mobilize voters. it's not that difficult. it's hope and fear. >> we're in fear politics now. it has democrats the house and the senate in 2018. >> i'm not -- to understand this realistically. i am a guy that gave hope. >> last guy ran on it. >> and triablism is about driving fear of the other. here is an opportunity for democrats to put some fear in women voters their rights will be taken away. >> here is the sort of analytical way i look at this. the democrats now have their fair message. republicans already had their fair message.

if this is our politics now, which is grievance and fear and fire voters up, then the playing field might have gotten more level. >> except the party coalitions are not symmetrical. the democratic coalition is bigger but made up of four pieces. the republican is smaller but fewer pieces. it's easier republicans to deliver cohesive. democrats can't do that. >> biden was trying to do that. >> it's not going to work. you cannot make the -- you cannot drive the democratic coalition as if it were the republican coalition. you have to understand it's a bigger more shambling entity with more pieces and culturally conservative parts. >> and outside the court yesterday, voters repeatedly were saying biden needs to do something. democrats need to do something. i think if there's nothing to be done, which was the case, then you do sort of run into the

issue of democrats for the last several years have been saying give us the majority and we'll give you these protections. these expansions to health care. whatever. now they have come up at a place where they have the majorities. technically. i know we understand how the filibuster works. but a lot of voters look and say we gave you the majorities. you're not giving us the things you said we were going to do. i sort of wonder at what point that's a diminishing returns. you ask for the majority so many times and not deliver. >> quickly, i can agree with you there's a lot more pieces. there's a thing called narrow casting. and i think democrats can narrow cast voters who are, in fact, less energized around these other pieces and this is a way to narrow cast particularly around younger women. >> one thing that hasn't changed. the swing voter in american politics hasn't changed. it's a noncollege educated white woman and college-educated white woman. >> i don't care.

>> meaning this issue -- it's sort of like -- >> yeah. >> i don't believe the swing vote anymore. i don't. it's so polarizing i don't believe in it. i think the republicans get it. the side that energizes and turns out their vote the most is going to be the side that wins. >> somebody has to win. the persuadable -- >> yeah. >> it decides five states. >> i don't know if that's true. >> and democrats you have to remember while their party is bigger, their base is smaller. if you're doing turn out politics, that means that goes to the republican advantage. >> millennials are the largest voting block in the united states now, potentially. the largest voting block. when they vote, they vote overwhelm bli. >> yeah. >> and, you know, worked for biden and in 2018 and it got barack obama the back to back majorities. >> this is a conversation that will not end. [ laughter ] >> thank you. >> before we go to break, we have important covid developments. the cdc is reiterating its recommendation that americans

wear masks on federal transportation. despite the federal judge that struck down the mask mandate to go through the middle of may. the agency is urging travelers age 2 and over to wear well-mitted masks on planes and trains. cdc said its basing the recommendation on current covid data. cases have risen more than 50%. about to hit 1 million deaths from covid. that staggering number into perspective it would be like losing a little more than the entire population of both tampa and milwaukee. h tampa and milwaukee. lemons. lemons. lemons. the world is so full of lemons. when you become an expedia member, you can instantly start saving on your travels. so you can go and see all those lemons, for less.

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russia is expanding assault on ukraine as europe proposes the most drastic measure yet.

the prospect of a resolution seems less likely. mariupol's mayor lost contact with those holed up in a steel plant for weeks. senior pentagon official tells nbc news the majority of russian forces left mariupol. russia is confirming it did attack power substations in western ukraine in the city of lviv. officials said it is impacting the train system. russia said some of the targets for supplies and weapons and warned it could target nato transports in the future. all of this comes as the eu proposes a ban on russian oil imports by the end of the year. it's a sign that europe is preparing for war. it's a sign, though, that some holdouts are starting to unify. a potential blow to the plan, hungary's foreign minister said they would not support the plan. it must be approved unanimously.

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for free information. (soft music) ♪ volodymyr zelenskyy outlined

three phases to the war. the first phase of halting of russia's offensive concluded. phase two is expelling russian forces from ukraine. the third is restoring so, chuck, he's laid out a process. they're preparing for this.

they're -- what he doesn't want to do is it was signed under duress. do you have a sense that that's incompetence?

>> if they make a mistake -- if they make that mistake, they're in it. they don't want to lose that. they know that. >> if they do destroy all these -- >> they're very resource. >> that was the first thing in my head money all right, germany's finally there. not an easy decision.

he's got his own politics to deal with there. the minute it's announced, here -- >> this ban on importing russian oil doesn't apply to hungary. hungary has a small percentage of that. even if they import some oil, it's not the billion dollars a day. the germans pay a lot of money to the russians every day as do the russian european nations. the hungarians not that much. >> do you think putin might put pressure on orbonne? >> probablybut hungary has not succumb to that pressure. it's been subject to it, it hasn't voted with putin and like the u.n.

so it has withstood some of that pressure and if they get a carve-out to allow them to buy oil, they can hold their nose and support it. >> what's going to happen on may 9th? what is your thinking of what putin's up to? >> victory day for president putin. i understand that the parade, which is supposed to be this big deal is not going to be such a big deal. he doesn't have that many tanks to run across. >> they've been destroyed, right? >> even the ones that haven't are old and they rumble across red square. so that's going to be unnoticeable. does he announce a full-blown war? he's losing, as you've talked about before -- >> you think needs that because needs the troops? >> he needs the troops. he's looking for syrians, he's looking for libyans, for the gogner group, he can't get the

belarusians. will the russians support this war? we'll see. >> what should nato's response be if it's a full declaration of war? >> the nato response should be continue to do what we're now doing in larger volume. we need to recognize what this means for ukraine. we're there with the ukrainians. we want the ukrainians to win. in order to have them win, they need the support, the weapons, the artillery. >> as a former diplomat, the issue of proxy work, there's a debate. there's some that want to vigorously push back whenever some say don't call it a proxy war. that's russian talking points. they want to call a proxy war. but you look at this and what we're doing, it looks like and walks and quacks like a duck, if it's not a proxy war, what is it? >> this is a war that we need ukrainians to win. so whatever we call it, we

should support the ukrainians with everything we've got. >> it's not more important to us than ukraine, though. is that the difference between a proxy war and not a proxy war? >> ukraine is important. it's more important to them, by the way, than it is for russia. let's be clear. but also for us, this is democracy and autocracy. >> good to see you, sir. i can't believe that's our last story of today. thank you all for being with us this hour. msnbc's coverage will continue with katie tur after the break. e with katie tur after the break we eat healthy. we exercise. i noticed i wasn't as sharp as i used to be. my wife introduced me to prevagen and so i said "yeah, i'll try it out." i noticed that i felt sharper, i felt like i was able to respond to things quicker. and i thought, yeah, it works for me.

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i'm halle jackson in for katy tur this afternoon. the federal reserve is getting ready to announce its decision to hike interest rates again. the second of seven of these kind of moves predicted for this year. here's the deal. economists think the feds are going to raise rates by half a percentage point today. we're going to confirm that for you as soon as the announcement is made official, probably within the next 60 seconds by the time i stop talking. the feds are also going to announce its plan to shrink its balance sheet, which translated into human english, another way to say pull money out of the economy. it's another tool for the fed to reign