what do you think is most important about the draft opinion? we might take some of your ideas or questions and work them into future coverage. that does it for us. "the reid out" with joy read is up next. good evening, everyone. happy cinco de mayo. no, it is not mexico's independence day. it is the celebration of a defeat of napoleon iii's army. a fitting theme as ukraine holds out and as american women do battle against an english jury list from the 17th century. take a look at this guy. his name is sir matthew hail. he was quite simply dumpster fire of awful. he was against abortion. he had two women executed for practicing wish craft, an opinion that established a model for the salem witch trials. he didn't believe in the concept

of rape saying it was easy to make. the instruction is known as the hale warning. he didn't have much use for charges of marital rape either. in his book, history of the pleas of the crown he wrote, quote, the husband cannot be guilty of a rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife, meaning that a wife was a man's property and, therefore, he cannot commit a crime upon her nor can she refuse her consent. interestingly or rather horrifically, justice samuel alito in the leaked opinion draft that would overturn roe v. wade cites that book in his argument to end abortion. citing hale as an historical authority not once, not twice but nine times in a 98 page ruling, mathematically that's once almost every ten pages, hale was one of the people alito relied upon for one of his most extreme assertions, that, quote, an unbroken tradition of

prohibiting abortion from 17th century english common law to the late 20th century. that could apply in almost everything. contraception, interracial marriage, women's rights to vote and while we have been talking about this leak and its implications during this terrible week in america, i have got to say it's the contempt for me. the utter contempt that alito's rule breaking screed made towards women. this hatred of women and the idea that we are no more than wards of our fathers and then of a husband and if not of the state simply because we are female. that is the unbroken tradition in this country. make no mistake, they're coming for all of it. this is the conservative, the

extremist that has been driving to repeal the 20th century. the century that warped america by enshrining women's rights, gay rights, non-white immigration. alito might say it was not meant to apply to anything else other than abortion, hear what he said in roe versus wade in 2006 and ask if any thinking person should believe him. >> roe versus wade is an important precedent of the supreme court. it was decided in 1973 so it's been on the books for a long time. it has been challenged on a number of occasions and i discussed those yesterday and it is my -- and the supreme court has reaffirmed the decision, sometimes on the merits, sometimes in casey based on stare decises.

when it's been challenged that strengthens it. >> the magic words. calling roe v. wade an important precedent of the supreme court. now let's talk about what this means in the real world. in louisiana there is a fetal personhood bill. the bill recognizes the human personhood starting at the moment of fertilization. this means performing an abortion would be classified as homicide even if roe versus wade is not overturned. joining us is melissa murray and michelle goldberg, columnist for the "new york times." melissa, i want to start with you on this. before we get to louisiana law, i want to get back to the contempt thing because i am not a lawyer but i read through what

i really read as a screed. i read supreme court decisions before, and usually they're very lawyerly, you have to understand law, they have citations. this read like a screed. then when i later discovered who exactly -- i was able to read up on who matthew hale was, i was like, oh, my goodness, this guy is channelling one of the most anti-woman, witch burning woman hating figures in all of human history. your thoughts? >> well, to be fair to justice alito, a number of states have championed sir matthew hale over the years. it's been quite recent that many states have repealed their exemption for marital rape. he lived for quite a long time in the law books of many states, well into the 20th state. show me you hate women without showing me you hate women. this opinion is not just absolute, it's absolutist in its objections, its antipathy for

choice and it's clear contempt for the idea that the decision to become a parent is so fundamental to the person, so fundamentally changes a person's life that it cannot be a decision that is formed under the compulsion of the state. he rejects this entirely and, again, i think makes it clear that the idea of choosing for yourself is something this court will not tolerate, certainly not now. >> michelle, you know, the thing that's so wild about this whole originalism thing, which i can recall a lot of republicans hectoring judge ketanji brown jackson, originalism, if you go back to the original conception of this country, first of all, melissa and i weren't even people, forget about us, but even women who were white women were considered absolutely the property and ward of their husband to be transferred to their husband, even any property. women didn't even ip her the property.

whatever they had went right to the husband and an unmarried woman was burned as a witch. they were unmarried, widows, people untethered to a man which is the only thing that grounded even white women in humanity. so if you are an orange allist, you essentially want to go back to that original conception of women who even 50 years after black men were given the right to vote, they were still denied it. your rights and thoughts? >> you're right. what's so chilling about this decision or one of the things that's so chilling is if you take the schema seriously, the only rights that are seen as constitutionally legitimate are those that have a deep history in the american republic and nobody, except for white men, has rights that have a deep history from the founding of the american republic. these were all sort of modern achievements, right? these are all -- women got the right to vote in the beginning

of the 20th century. many of the other rights that were won were towards the -- in the middle or the end of the 20th century. and so the idea that because they were not there 200 years ago, 100 years ago, i mean, i believe one of the citations in alito's opinion goes back to the 13th century. the idea that sort of something gets -- is more legitimate because it has been around for hundreds of years just ensures that only the most right wing conception of human rights will have the force of constitutional law. >> right. by the way, not even all white men. only white men with property. if you were not a property owner, you could not vote in the orange allist conception. let me go back to some of these footnotes. i talked to you a lot about the footnotes. clarence thomas, who's one of the more ironic members -- i don't know what he would think because he, too, claims this

originalist belief system. there was a footnote that referenced eugenics. this is one of the most common talking points among forced birth people. other amicus briefs they talk about the proponents. they note that some such supporters have suppressed the size of the african american population. this is the black person version of arguing against abortion. they'll try to talk about the woman who was the sort of progenitor. they do this all the time. he did in his screed. >> i've written a harvard law review article about eugenics. it has its again know sits that justice thomas filed in a shadow docket in 2013. it had a flourishing life in the lower court. many former clerks who are

judges cited it liberally. the idea is the disproportionate incidence of black women is harder, the vestiges are there for the purpose of stamping out black reproduction and black political power. justice thomas, i think it's a very canny move. it's reframing the meaning of abortion and women's equality and gender justice to being racial genocide and racial justice. you don't need to cite it in this opinion. i had argued it could be a way to overrule roe versus wade by saying this is an act of racial injustice. we've overruled many cases in the past to remedy those racial injustices. that's not the case here. justice alito is focusing on roe versus wade's untethering the

constitutional text and the untethering of the deep roots. he doesn't need to do this. it is once gratuitous but also sort of lending a groundwork of what is to come, this idea we are changing the social meaning of abortion, we are casting this as eugenics and we are laying the surveillance of women of color, minority communities in all aspects of their intimate lives. >> the forced birth side cites plessy. overturning roe would be like the overturning of plessy. they are establishing the rules plessy was citing. you can't ride on this bus. what do you make of this constant lean on plessy as their excuse and they're trying to put-back the same states rights plessy was talking about. >> no, melissa. >> i think it's absolutely

ironic. it's exactly as you say. plessy upholds whether to be a system of apartheid or not. this is returning to the states to be a system of reproductive apartheid or not. it is being cast this is the ground that will overrule the constitutional ruling that was plessy/roe versus wade. >> let's play hillary clinton. hillary clinton on this opinion. here's what she said. >> this opinion is dark, it is incredibly dangerous and it is not just about a woman's right to choose, it is about much more than that. any american who says, look, i'm not a woman. this doesn't affect me. i'm not black, that doesn't affect me. i'm not gay, that doesn't affect me. once you allow this kind of extreme power to take hold, you have no idea who they will come

for next. >> you know, michelle, you know, there's a trust us that they keep -- you know, these justices keep saying. they get on the -- you know, the deus when they're being confirmed and saying, trust us, trust us, starre decises but we knew they were lying. when alito says, trust me, i only mean this to be abortion. then they said it about bush v. gore and then they cited it. is there any reason for anyone who is gay, anyone in a gay marriage, anyone who cares about, i don't know, keeping, you know, segregated schools from getting a tax break which they're also mad about, isn't everything now on the table? because it all is down to the right to privacy. it's all based on the same right to privacy that he's essentially thrown in the trash? >> yes. yes. he says in the opinion that abortion is different because it involves, you know, the taking of fetal life for, you know,

potential life. he puts it a couple of different ways, but that's just him -- he's not offering a legal principle about why he's different. he is like you're saying, saying trust us, we're not going to apply this precedent to a whole host of other social issues even though conservatives, many conservatives very much intend to relit at this gate things like brown versus the board of education, not that that's a privacy law. but to relit at this gate, as you said, huge parts of the 20th century. the other thing you sort of hear trust us about from certain republican commentators. people talk about the impact on women who have miscarriages, women who are pregnant -- who want to be pregnant and have something go wrong and there's also a sort of trust us, no, of course prosecutors don't want to target women for having miscarriages, but we already see that happening. you already see women all over

the country who are suspected of doing something that harmed their pregnancies being investigated, in some cases imprisoned. there was a carve out for women who got abortions. now that carve out is gone. >> and by the way, in louisiana this law as it has been written and amended would make anyone who had an ectopic pregnancy subject to investigation, anyone who had a miscarriage, anyone who tried to get in vitro fertilization. they can outlaw contraception, anything that prevents fertilization. that means birth control, iuds. don't just believe me, look at the law they're trying to pass in louisiana, the republican state senate and state legislature. they're going to pass that law and it will get signed. louisiana will be the first to go. melissa and michelle, thank you very much. next on "the reid out," new reports on the warnings that january 6th could turn violent. why was nothing done to prevent the deadly insur rekt from

happening. it's still donald trump's party. private comments are very different from their public mag ga fielty. >> the election of the president matters. the election of the president matters because he's the one that puts the justices on the court. >> simone sanders joins me with her first interview with dr. jill biden and the launch of her new show on msnbc. "the reid out" continues. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> man: looks great. >> tech: that's service on your time. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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a new report this week confirmed that two social media companies, facebook and parlor, gave advance warning to officials of the potential of violence at the capitol on january 6th. according to a report by the government accountability office, the fbi and the department of homeland security were aware of plans for that day. the gao report confirms earlier media reports the washington post reported the fbi received numerous reports of numbers of people vowing to confront congress. one source told the post that director ray worried that any

public statements might be asking for a desperate president to come after him. the new gao report seemed to contradict statements director wray gave last june. >> certainly we were aware of online chatter about the potential for violence, but i'm not aware we had any intelligence indicating that hundreds of individuals were going to storm the capitol itself. >> with me now, joyce mance, professor at the university of alabama school of law. are you as disturbed as i am by what chris wray said and what he seemed to actually know about potential violence? it sounds like there was a lot of concern about being fired, less concern about that than informing the public of potential violence. >> it seems like it would be highly appropriate for the january 6th committee to ask the director to visit with them and

to testify to clean this up in essence because it's alarming either way. did he have this information and conceal it or is it possible he wouldn't have information about a proposed attack on the capitol. part of the committee's job here is going to be if we need new laws, new information to prevent this. wray holds a lot of information. >> donald trump said hey come to the capitol, it's going to be wild. he kept saying we're going to have a -- come to this wild protest on january 6th. he kept channelling people to january 6th. i had law enforcement friends saying stay away from the capitol on january 6th. i was constantly saying, something bad is brewing here because everyone seemed to be hearing about it. people were putting it on

facebook. people were saying they're going to do this. is it possible that the fbi director and capitol police were either completely unaware of it or was it more political that they didn't want to seem to be targeting the president's supporters by taking action in advance? >> so that's what the american deserve accountability for, right? we can speculate about a range of possibilities but chris wray knows the answer. he's been quiet about this, perhaps appropriately so but now as this gao comes to light, joy, it's important to understand that this is sort of a stepped down version of the report. there was information that was withheld because it was deemed sensitive. this report speaks perhaps in more general terms than the information that is in the possession of the gao about both the law enforcement and the intelligence agencies that had knowledge in advance of january

6th that there was this potential for violence and none of the answers here are good ones. was it a political move that caused them not to take action, was it a failure of knowledge sharing? none of these are good looks. whatever the answer is, the committee needs to get to the bottom of it. steps need to be taken to make sure there's no repeat of this in future elections. >> i kind of feel like it's pretty clear. if they felt there was a big black lives matter rally on the mall on january 6th, they would have been super prepared, would have had the national guard out there, they would have been ready. let's talk about the oath keepers that was involved in the january 6th insurrection. there's a guy named william todd wilson. he pleaded guilty on wednesday. he is talking. he joined stewart rose in a hotel shortly after the attack and he listened as rhoades made a phone call to an unnamed trump

intermediary. he heard rhoades repeatedly implore the individual to tell president trump to call on groups like the oath keepers to forcibly oppose a transfer of power. the person on the line denied rhodes request to speak directly with the president. what do you think this indicates? stewart rhoades and these other oath keepers, they definitely seem in their own minds to have a plan to use violence to keep trump in office. what does this say about whether trump knew? >> so, i'm not sure that we can actually make a final\decision based on what we've heard here about what trump knew. prosecutors have sufficient evidence to nail down the prosecution of rhoades who was the leader of the oath keepers, yale educated lawyer who appears to have these contacts. we don't know, presumably doj knows, we don't know from this

recitation that comes in an attachment to a plea agreement, precisely who this person rhoades reached out to was. it's clear doj should be able to convict him. with that comes the possibility that they can do what prosecutors like to do in these large conspiracy cases, they can move up the chain. they can flip rhodes who might prefer to cooperate and share information in an effort to limit his exposure and you move closer and closer to the people who can actually tell you what was going on in the former president's mind. that's the key. that's where prosecutors need to end be up. people who were most responsible absolutely must be prosecuted, but we also need to know the truth about what happened here. >> yeah. indeed. what does it say to you before we wrap here that the president's son is willing to testify but, you know, members

of congress, mark meadows, the former chief of staff are not. his son is talking. >> all of these people, with the exception of the president's son, took an oath to uphold the constitution and the notion that they would be unwilling to come testify to congress about an insurrection. we're not talking about the scope of executive privilege, we're talking about an actual effort to interfere with the smooth transfer of power. this is despicable so we can protect our democracy from the next assault, whether it's short term or long term, the whole goal here is for congress to build our institutions into smaller versions of our self. anyone who's ever taken that

oath has -- >> somebody has a cat. >> that's my lovely cat. the vance cats have strong views about insurrection. >> they clearly do. they can come on any time with their mom. they're definitely welcome. thank you, joyce. the disgraced twice impeached president's cult-like ripon the republican party would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerous. your projects done right . with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done.

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the disgraced twice impeached president's hold on the republican party is as tight as ever. david perdue is the latest republican to be heard saying one thing in private and another in public. the atlantic journal constitution reports on audio by jonathan martin and alex burns in which perdue outlined the strategy from a runoff days after. quote, there are people who voted in an anti-trump way, voted for biden and voted down the list that we think may come back to us in this plea for split government. running as a bullwart against a democratic president would have meant telling the truth and admit that trump lost. the horror. now he's trying to take down governor brian kemp. >> first off, folks, let me be

very clear tonight. the election in 2020 was rigged and stolen. all the madness we see from the biden administration, all that started right here in georgia when our governor caved and allowed radical democrats to steal our government. >> that helped perdue win trump's endorsement. many other trump sters were caught talking out of their mouth. like kevin mccarthy who we learned yesterday discussed using the 25th amendment to remove trump from office but worried the process would take too long. the cult of maga was on display last night in pennsylvania where in a particularly odd moment one candidate raved about the former president's most ludicrous idea. >> ambassador sands, when you were ambassador to denmark president trump offered to buy green land from denmark. what did you think of that? >> he was the third u.s. president to make that and i

thought it was an awesome idea because he's a deal guy. >> green land is not for sale. dr. oz repeated one thing. >> president trump endorsed me calling me america first. desperate dave, dishonest again. once again president trump endorsed me. i will do that for the very reason president trump endorsed me. the reason president trump endorsed me, he gave a lot, was he knew i would win in november. >> did president trump endorse you, dr. oz? i couldn't get that from your statements. it remains to be seen if that is enough to win over pennsylvania voters, the former president will appear with oz at a rally, maybe he'll remember his last name. although the cult of trump was so strong getting it was so strong that it wasn't a problem

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trumper calling trump hitler. last year he was told he had to suck it up to go full maga to get their votes. then as vanity fair put it, vance became the trumpiest candidate he could be. he wrote a series of bad takes on twitter some of which called for mass civil disobedience, calling indigenous people a fake holiday and calling lebron james one of the most vile people in our country. he wasn't the only maga bro who won on tuesday. there's j.p.majewski who wore a quanon show on fox. of course, he was also in attendance on january 6th but claims he didn't participate in any violence baselessly blaming that violence on the u.s.

government. joining me is charlie sykes and tim o'brien from bloomberg opinion. thank you for being here. charlie, it is like -- in one part it's theater, right? this j.p. majewski guy, he made a let's go brandon video. that's ridiculous, right? he's in a let's go, brandon, video. it's dumb and ridiculous. they all have to take the walk. they all have to walk the plank, right, including people like david perdue. they have to hand them the words, hand them the script and say it. i wonder if you can sort of elucidate for us, what is in it for them? trump's record is so-so. he's won some. he's lost some. why are they doing it? >> j.d. vance, this is his ticket to the united states senate and he was willing to make these compromises. he was willing to engage in

self-incrimination and repudiate the past. he was willing to say and do all of the things you described and the reality is it worked. it worked not because donald trump made him do it, that's certainly part of it, but also because this is apparently what the maga base wants now. this is what the republican base is looking for and so, you know, he made a calculation that he was going to make himself the ultimate fake poser shape shifter. he has a good chance now of becoming a united states senator. that's why they do this. it's an indication of not just donald trump's control over the republican party because i think we know that but also how deeply radicalized the base has become. and you're going to see this ongoing competition, who is more fringy? who is more maga? who is willing to poke the liberals more. expect more radicalization and you really saw it play out in

ohio. >> right. think about it, tim, just let's take j.d. vance for a minute. if he should win that seat, tim ryan is in that race as well, who owns him? trump or peter thiel or is it like joint custody? >> or tucker carlson. >> three. yeah. >> peter thiel putting money into it. trump advising him on performance art. the premiere performance artist of the american political theater on the far right is donald trump without parallel. and then you had tucker carlson amplifying andendorsing. it was more than trump that elevated vance and other candidates that trump has

anointed, oz in pennsylvania, david perdue in georgia don't enjoy healthy leads right now. in fact, perdue is well behind kemp and it's neck in neck in pennsylvania. so i'm not sure trump alone anointing someone is going to be a sure-fire thing, but when you get these other forces at work around them, like vance did, when you get far right money plus far right media propaganda, it's deadly effective. and i think that's one of the reasons that trumpism is going to outlast donald trump and i think we all have to get used to the idea that even if trump leaves the national stage, wedding white nationalism to propaganda and nationalism has become a very effective brew for the republican base. they're going to continue to do it. you're going to get candidates across the country who are adopting that because it works, an emotional relationship with

voters is often deeper and more effective than a policy relationship with them. trump proves that and so you will have desantis, holly, cruise, abbott and all these other clowns mimicking trump because it gets them in office. >> you know, what it says, ron brownstein has written about the demographic realities. look, don't count on white republican women to run to the democrats because of abortion because they're going to keep voting for republicans. if you think of a way a state like "high owe is gerrymandered. she won it by 26 points in 2020. northwest ohio. now it's gone from d plus 16 to r plus 6. they've gerrymandered the hell out of these. they are locking in what is a very white nationalist tinged

core. >> no, i agree with what tim just said. people do need to understand whether you want to call it trumpism, whatever you want to call it, will outlast donald trump. donald trump, you know, is very, very careful not to have any daylight between himself and the base and as the base becomes more wedded to these very extreme positions, you know, he will -- he will go along. he will be reluctant to break with them. but, you know, saying j.d. vance did this because it will work and he might be united states senate. one of the things when you go in on the extreme narratives, how it will play in the general election, how it will play in a state like ohio which has trended republican.

is j.d. vance and the kind of things he's saying about ukraine, the kinds of things he's been saying about authoritarianism, will that play in the general election? we don't know. there is a chance that by taking that out, they will put these states in play, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan. >> there is a core that is driving the republican base right now. but that's not all the people who vote republican. there are people who still just like the tax cuts. if you are a qanon or saying white replacement, if that goes too far and down the road moderate tim ryan can beat them in a state that re-elected and reelected and re-elected sherod brown. >> you know i love you, and charlie i love you too, but it

might be because i'm irish i'm less optimistic. we're sort of always expecting the worse. >> i'm not either. >> yeah. but i think, you know, i think but i think, you know, i think we have ugly, ugly battles ahead san francisco is

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get a great deal on this limited time price with internet and voice for just $49.99 a month for 24 months with a 2-year price guarantee. but here's what she said on the call today. lead draft opinion overturning roe v. wade. >> as a mother, as a grandmother, what would you say to young women right now? particularly, young women who are upset about the possible erosion of their belief to make decisions about their own bodies. >> i guess the first thing i would say is that, how shocking it was when you heard the news.

and john i got the call that, it had been leaked. the president matters, the election of the president matters because he's the one who puts the justices on the court. but if this goes the state level, our state legislators are going to matter to. so, people have to get involved. >> simone sanders, host of the retina show simone, joins me now. congratulations on your show. this is a very empowered first lady, much like michelle obama. she is still teaching, she has a doctorate, she's a very empowered person. what did she say, and how did she -- how does she reflect on the richer great direction with the country's going and particularly around roe v. wade? >> you know, doctor biden remembers a world before roe v. wade. and she goes on to talk about it in that clip that you showed about the need to stand up and vote. she essentially says, elections

of consequences, and they matter. she talks a lot of the president's matters. it gives a call to action i feel like, she also though, later in the interview, she talks about her independence and our independence was very important to her. and i think that something that particularly in the state in time, i asked a question, what do you say to young women who are upset about their rights essentially being rolled back? and she is juxtaposing that moment with their comments about interventions. i think it's absolutely fascinating. i can wait to have people see the rest of their view. >> what do we learn that we didn't about luck to biden in this interview? >> i think you will learn her dos and don'ts from reality philippine. but also think that you will learn about, she became a wife and a mother the same time. so she talks about, and the interview, the first time that beau and hunter called her mom. she talks about the importance

of teaching to her. she actually give some advice to teachers across the country for this moment than right now. and also, she talked a lot about their trips. she talks about her conversations that she's had in advance of the trip with some of the people that you will be meeting with. so, i encourage people to watch. >> well, i have to ask you, speaking of empowered women, you recently came to the white house as everyone knows, and another very empowered and special person that renal, karine jean-pierre announced that she will ascend to the podium on may 13th. i have to ask you to reflect on that of somebody who was worked for our first vice president, our first black woman vice president, to see a black woman had that podium. give that your flex on the. >> i think it's one part inspiring. i had opportunity to work with her, and i know her socially. i think that this is an important moment, enjoy. remember when you first got your show on 7 pm, and however

on across the country, i know every black woman i, know they're excited. they're black black at black women in primetime. and it is inspiring to see you every single day. well monday through friday, honey, but every single day. that's inspiring for us. and it is the same for karine. and i tweeted today that there are so many young people in this country that are going to dream bigger because of her today. i'm excited for her and i shouldn't dwell, and i can't wait for me 13th. >> well, we're also excited for you, my ear. what can we expect from your show, which is appropriately titled, simone? what do we expect? >> simone, one word. you are gonna get the news you need to know, from politics but culture. so, we're gonna dig into topics with our culture critics, our panel of closure critics. we're gonna political panels. are gonna go beyond. we're gonna talk to local people, local journalists

they're gonna talk to people that know. so i'm excited. excited for this weekend. i don't people tune in. >> congratulations again, simone sanders, thank you very much. we'll be tuning in. be sure to watch the premier saturday at 4 pm eastern right here on msnbc. that is a nice read out. all in with chris say starts now. read out. all in with chris say starts now. tonight on all in. >> we are calling him to use the insurrection act the summer. he did not do it. and he at the last moment could've done. it >> is the closest contact you had between someone charged with seditious conspiracy and the president of the united states. tonight, what we know about who's storage was talking about inside the white house. then, -- >> it is an outrage that we have five justices on the supreme court who lied, lied in their confirmation h