we'll show you what key senators are saying about the legislation and what the strategy is here. plus, whiplash on wall street. the dow suffers its worst day since 2020, erasing gains from the day before and increasing concerns a recession could be ahead. former defense secretary under president trump, mark esper, speaking out about the time trump wanted to launch missiles into mexico. we'll have the story from esper's new memoir as reported in "the new york times." staggering. we'll have that and more ahead. joe is under the weather this morning. along with willie and me, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle and president of the counsel on foreign relations, richard haass with us. let's begin with the new reporting, that vladimir putin's most embarrassing loss to ukrainian forces came out of shared intelligence from the

united states. the premier ship in the black sea sank after it was hit by missiles fired by the ukrainians. moscow claims it sank because a fire on board caused ammunition to explode. it happened after ukrainian forces asked american intelligence about a ship sailing in the black sea. the u.s. confirmed it was the russian ship and gave the location. the u.s. was not involved in the decision to strike the warship. willie, this obviously raises a number of questions. >> it does. richard haass has a few comments about that. this was days after the reporting that officials said american intelligence has been helped to kill russian generals. ukraine claims to have killed 12 generals on the front lines. american officials didn't give a

specific number of deaths that were the result of the shared information. officials pushed back against the idea that the u.s. was explicitly providing the information with the intent of targeting russian military leaders. yesterday, pentagon press secretary john kirby clarified how the u.s. shares intelligence with ukraine. >> we do not provide intelligence on the senior military leaders on the battlefield or participate in the targeting decisions of the ukrainian military. the ukrainians have, quite frankly, a lot more information than we do. this is their country, their territory. they have intelligence capabilities of their own. ukraine combines information that we and other partners provide, with the intelligence that they, themselves, are gathering on the battlefield. then they make their own decisions. they take their own actions. >> as mika mentioned, admiral kirby will join us this morning at the top of our third hour. let's bring in co-authorclusive

moskva, carol lee. great to see you. how did this come to pass? i guess the question for you on the reporting side of it is, why do you suspect that american officials are so interested in getting the word out publicly that they are helping directly in this war effort against russia and perhaps providing vladimir putin with some of the propaganda he craves? >> sure, willie. well, the way it came about is, as you'll recall, there was a lot of speculation when this ship sank on april 14th, about whether ukraine had help in sinking that ship. what we've learned from u.s. officials is that they did. that the u.s. helped them identify and locate this ship. after the ukrainians had asked the u.s. about a ship that was sailing in the black sea south of odesa, and the u.s. responded and said that it was the moskva and here's where it was located,

u.s. officials said they didn't know what ukraine was going to then launch, the missile strikes on the ship, and the u.s. didn't play a role in that specifically. there's a little bit of trying to distance themselves from that, though we know they provided the intelligence. the result of this was one of the most humiliating moments for the russians in the ukrainian conflict. also a big morale boost for the ukrainian forces. i think, to your question about why people are talking about this now, is there is -- for reporters, we want people to tell us things that maybe other people don't want out there in the public, but there's been a lot of focus on the military, the actual equipment that's been provided to ukraine, and there's this whole other piece that's happening that's really helped the ukrainians get on the footing that they're on at this particular time. we reported last week, for instance, about other elements of intelligence sharing that have allowed the ukrainians to

avoid having some of their missile defense systems struck. to really put them on a better offensive than anyone would have thought. so i think, at this point, there's a little bit of distance there. the concern, though, is, among some officials in the u.s. government, is that this could be provocative if this is out there in the public. look, part of this is vladimir putin isn't stupid. i mean, he could -- there was plenty of speculation about this. he can put things together on his own. but having it out there, having it talked about sort of adds to that humiliation. there is concern that there could be some sort of reaction. then on the ukrainian side, you've heard some officials including former officials say that this is something that they don't like because it just makes them look like they don't know exactly what they're doing. >> so i want to keep carol for her great reporting and more questions there, but, richard haass, there always is this question of whether or not, oh, the russians will see this as the beginning of world war -- they will take this as the

united states getting involved or nato getting involved. but we really don't know where that line is. i mean, so the question is, first of all, what's the point of releasing this information? secondly, what does it matter? russia is going to decide what that line is. >> well, the point of releasing this information is there is no point. this is just a lack of judgment and a lack of discipline. a little bit of the old world war ii, loose lips sink ships. this is what bureaucracies do, they leak. i think the danger here is two-fold. if one of our goals as the secretary of defense said, is to weaken the russians -- and i'm not a fan of saying that publicly -- but, arguably, put putin is not losing to ukraine, he's losing to the west. it makes it easier to explain why russia is running into difficulties. second of all, if we are a direct protagonist in this war, it weakens some of the barriers against escalation. obviously, we don't want that to

happen. plus, the ukrainians, this takes it away from them. we want the focus here, mika, to be on ukraine. their defense against an aggressive russia. why do we want to put the microscope on ourselves? >> mike, as we've been talking about the last couple days with the "new york times" report on intelligence, perhaps leading to the death of these generals, this is all of a piece of what the united states is providing to ukraine. it is physical equipment, yes, but it is also training and intelligence. >> it certainly is. it has been since the inception of this war, willie. but i have to tell you, i've been a bit surprised. i think, richard, perhaps you were, as well, at the length of cooperation involved in the story yesterday in the "times" and the story today. about the russian ship. carol, i'm wondering, at the start of this war, there was a very -- a lot of reluctance when you would ask about our helping them, helping the ukrainians with targeting, with

intelligence, with almost the immediate amputation of the russian command and control capacity, but specifically about targeting. the people i spoke to would say, "no, no, we're not going to talk about targeting. we're not going to target about that." what has happened, do you think, to clearly open the door to cooperation with members of the media, reporters like you and others, to get these stories out with our thumbprint all over it? >> well, i think there's been -- first of all, some time has gone by, right? that always -- when you have distance from specific events, that can make a difference. but this is also something that the u.s. has been a little bit more public about. there have been conversations about intelligence sharing when members of the administration have testified on capitol hill. there was some real questions raised by the -- the administration was put on the defensive when there were questions raised by members of the intelligence committee about

whether the u.s. was sharing enough intelligence. the ukrainians, at times, have complained about not getting enough information. so i think all of that combined. then, you know, i can't speak to people's motivations or where our sourcing came from, but this is an aspect of the conflict that is playing a very significant role. it's not something that, to this point, has been talked about so much. now that the conflict is going on for months and it's continuing to drag on, there seems to be a more willingness to put this out there. i will also say that there's so much more that we don't know and, you know, there are things we do know that we are not reporting. there's things the u.s. government is doing that we won't know for some time. >> so on the ground in ukraine, fierce fighting is raging at that steel plant in mariupol, as russian forces mounted a final

push to take the last bastion of resistance in the devastated city. a ukrainian commander said yesterday, quote, heavy, bloody fighting is taking place inside that factory. drone video here shared by ukrainian's far-right regiment shows thick smoke at the complex. nbc news hasn't been able to independently verify when this video was shot. this as an adviser to ukraine's internal affairs ministry alleged the russians had breached the mill with the help of a former worker who knew the layoff, including the tunnels and the bunkers inside. in his nightly address, president volodymyr zelenskyy reiterated that russian shelling is nonstop. adding, quote, just imagine this hell. there are children. he also said that, despite relentless attacks, ukrainian fighters have refused to

surrender. meanwhile, the u.n. says an evacuation convoy is on its way to the plant and is hoping to evacuate more children today. we'll be following that. also, first lady dr. jill biden is traveling to europe to spend the holiday weekend on the ukraine border, meeting with refugees. she left from joint base andrews overnight. the four-day trip to romania and slovakia is her second solo international trip after leading the american delegation to the summer olympic games. dr. biden's trip will include a special mother's day visit to a refugee checkpoint on the border of ukraine. the first lady will survey the site and tour a school for refugee children. her trip follows a series of recent high-profile visits from u.s. officials. house speaker nancy pelosi led a congressional delegation last week to ukraine's capital, kyiv. she met with zelenskyy.

the secretary of state, the secretary of defense also visited the capital city and did the same. president biden was in poland near the ukrainian border in late march. willie, the united states consistency over the course of time showing their support in many ways, including with these visits which really shows symbolically that they are behind ukraine. >> every week. today it's the first lady of the united states. last week, it was a congressional delegation led by speaker pelosi. a week before that, you had secretaries blinken and austin there, as well. meanwhile, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy continues to speak to world leaders, current and former. george w. bush had high praise for the ukrainian president after a conversation. the george bush presidential center posted photos to social media of the two speaking virtually yesterday morning. bush was honored to talk to zelenskyy, whom he called the winston churchill of our time. he thanked the ukrainian leader for his leadership, his example, and his commitment to liberty.

the former president also saluted the ukrainian people for their courage and said america will continue to stand with them as they fight to defend their freedoms. richard, zelenskyy has masterfully reached out to foreign leaders, including former foreign leaders like george w. bush. kept in touch, you know, addressed parliaments, addressed congress, talked about exactly what he's going to need as this long war continues. now sitting down with george w. bush. >> 2008, on george w. bush's watch, that's when the process of potential nato enlargement was opened up at the summit. it is a degree of bipartisanship. we don't have a lot of that in foreign policy or anything else. the fact that many republicans, obviously the administration of democrats in congress, are all pushing the same way. good thing. the other thing this suggests is the other reason some of this intelligence may be coming out, might be possible the administration wants it out. early on, they were criticized for quote, unquote, not doing

enough to help ukraine. clearly, we're doing a lot. you have the $33 billion package the president proposed. this intelligence support, the training. there's been a series of articles. essentially, what the administration is doing, they've cast their lot. they've gone all in for ukraine. they may simply want it all known. coming up on "morning joe," former defense secretary mark esper recounts the moment donald trump asked whether the u.s. government could fire missiles into mexico. then pretend it wasn't the u.s. who did it. oh, my god. we'll dig into details of that stunning revelation. plus, a look at where market futures stand this morning after the dow plunged 1,000 points yesterday. also ahead, we'll be joined by the chairman of the house democratic caucus, congressman hakeem jeffries. we'll talk to him about his party's midterm messaging when it comes to abortion rights, and what's the strategy? also, new safety concerns about johnson & johnson's covid vaccine.

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19 past the hour. the food and drug administration is telling anyone 18 and older to not use the johnson & johnson covid vaccine unless necessary. this follows the cdc's recommendation in december to get one of the other vaccines. both agencies cite the risk of a rare and possibly fatal form of blood clot known as tts. the fda says through mid-march, it's confirmed 60 cases of it following a j&j shot.

nine of them deadly. to date, close to 19 million doses of the johnson & johnson vaccine have been given in the u.s. we'll be following this. rudy giuliani, trump's former personnel lawyer, has canceled an interview with the january 6th committee that was slated for today. according to his attorney, he originally agreed to a transcribed interview, but told investigators he would not partake unless he was able to record it. the committee denied his request. in a statement, the committee spokesman called giuliani an important witness to the conspiracy to overthrow the government. that if he refuses to comply, the committee will consider all enforcement options. giuliani was subpoenaed by the committee back in january along with three other campaign attorneys linked with efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. willie? this morning, "the new york times" is reporting former

president donald trump once proposed using missiles to destroy drug labs in mexico. it is one of the revelations in a new book from former defense secretary mark esper. titled "a sacred oath." quote, when mr. esper raised various objections, mr. trump said, "we could just shoot some patriot missiles and take out the labs quietly." adding, "no one would know it was us." mr. trump said he'd just say the united states had not conducted the strike. mr. esper wrote he would have thought it was a joke had he not been staring mr. trump in the face. the "times" reports trump asked esper if the military put together troops on the streets after protests and riots erupted in the wake of george floyd by police many minneapolis. referring to the demonstrators, former president trump reportedly asked esper, quote, can't you just shoot them? esper reportedly described trump as a, quote, unprincipled person

who, given his self-interest, should not be in the position of public service. you'll remember esper was fired by trump after the election was called in favor of joe biden. we reached out to trump's team for comment. nbc news hasn't yet seen a copy of esper book. he will be a guest on "morning joe" next tuesday. mike barnicle, fascinating, perhaps unsurprising revelations, but it joins the list of former trump officials who sort of found jesus when the book deal comes. >> mark esper, secretary of the defense, sits with the president of the united states, who proves by his utterances, is quoted in mr. esper's book, that he is unstable. as secretary of defense, he shuts up about it until the publisher hands him a check. these people ought to be banned

from coming on and promoting these books. >> well, we have him on tuesday. >> starting wednesday, yes. >> what do you think, richard? >> look, as a former administration official, you know, worked for four presidents, there's certain things you have to keep quiet. it's part of the deal when you go into administration. but when you see things beyond the pale, against the law and so forth, you want to push back privately. if it is going to go ahead, that's why people should resign. they should resign in principle and explain it. to simply sit on things that are clearly unacceptable, that presidents or officials ought not to do, mike is right, it raises fundamental questions whether people met their obligations. they don't work for the president as the person. they work for us. >> there is the argument, mika, we'll put out there, and we look forward to talking to secretary esper on tuesday about all this, that these men, like general milley, like various secretaries of various cabinets, if i leave,

look who is behind me. they had some duty to serve as a guardrail or barrier to these things. the next guy might say, yeah, donald trump, you can launch missiles into mexico and pretend it is not us. >> i think it is impossible to understand what it was like to be in the shoes of someone who was working directly under president trump. carol lee, there are now countless stories of people coming out of that white house with even worse revelations than the ones we saw out loud. you know, the president didn't have much of a filter at the time and said the most stupid and dangerous things right on the world stage. i think stunning the media and desensitizing his constituents to what our values are. i mean, this is a man who spoke openly about shaking down volodymyr zelenskyy for dirt on joe biden. so i do kind of -- i'm kind of

with mike barnicle. i kind of wish somebody would have spoken out in real time. >> yeah. what's really interesting about this, mika, is it echoes what former national security adviser john bolton wrote. in the sense that the overarching theme, according to the "new york times" story, in esper's book, it was all for former president trump's re-election. everything was political. his decisions were motivated by his own standing politically and his ambitions. that's the lens through which we've seen a number of these stories be told through. that was the motivating factor. what's also striking is that unlike john bolton, secretary esper was at the forefront of some of the most serious decisions and things that were going on in any administration. he was the secretary of defense. the way he describes the president wanting to use the military, and some of the

president's aides, apparently, according to the "new york times" story on the book, including steve miller sending 250,000 u.s. troops down to the border, things like that. what is also striking about this is esper talks about, to everyone's point, he thought about resigning. in fact, we reported while he was still secretary that he had written a letter, a resignation letter, that he would keep around, a just in case. he says the reason that he stayed is because president trump was surrounded by yes men. well, esper's name, particularly on the hill, was yesper, because he said yes to the president and didn't stand up to the president. part of what you're seeing here, and we've seen these before as everyone noted, is this reputation laundering book. we'll see if it works. but the stories in here, setting aside the motivations and what esper kept to himself, are really striking.

>> you know, richard, you spoke about working for different presidents of both parties. and part of the depressing aspect of this tale from mark esper's book, and it's just the latest as carol pointed out, is you wonder what happens to people who have some intellect, clearly, some experience, clearly, and what happens to them when they're in the oval office with the president of the united states, and do they not realize that the oath that they took to perform their duties is to the country, not to the president? so these things occur repeatedly with different cabinet members. we've all read the confessions now. you wonder, what happens to their courage and their sense of what this country is all about? >> there is a great story by bob strauss, mr. democrat from texas. he was against the war in vietnam.

finally gets an audience with lyndon johnson. he was determined to say why the vietnam war is a mistake. he gets in the oval office, and his courage deserts him. he gets the lyndon johnson treatment. by the end of the meet, he was saying, "mr. president, you're doing a great job." he then says he went afterwards back home, took a shower, felt humiliated by what he hadn't done, and he promised, if he ever got a chance to meet with an american president, he'd always tell the truth from that point on. he did. >> nbc news white house correspondent carol lee, that nickname, yesper, is painful. thank you very much for being on this morning. we'll be asking about that. coming up, we're headed to wall street for an early look at the markets after the worse trading day since the start of the pandemic. plus, incoming supreme court justice ketanji brown jackson takes the bench at a tumultuous time for the high court following the leak of a draft opinion to overturn roe v. wade.

eugene robinson says judge jackson must wonder what she's gotten herself into. gene joins us next with his latest column for the "washington post." we'll be right back. when you join ihop's new rewards program, the international bank of pancakes, and start stacking pancoins toward free food, you get a smile on your plate. download the app and join the rewards program today. biden: we have a crisis: the price at the pump. our prices are rising because of putin's actions. we need to double down on our commitment to clean energy. building a made-in-america clean energy future

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33 past the hour. friday morning and the start of a rainy weekend in new york city, as we take a live look at the top of the rock. all right. let's talk about something else that's kind of gloomy. growing concerns about the state of the u.s. economy after

whiplash on wall street. the dow jones industrial average lost more than 1,000 points yesterday, its worst day since 2020. it wiped out a huge rally on wednesday after fed reserve chair jerome powell helped reassure investors. he said the fed was unlikely to raise interest rates as aggressively as many on wall street expected. joining us now, cnbc reporter frank holland on this. first of all, talk about the drop yesterday. what are we expecting today? >> well, i mean, right now, futures are down slightly, not down big. after yesterday, it's been anything goes environment. we've been talking to people all morning on cnbc. a lot of thoughts about the jobs report that's coming up later today. could be a factor in the markets, may not be a market on the -- factor on the markets. when chair powell said the fed isn't actively considering a 75-point hike in june, at first the markets responded well on wednesday. we saw a rally. then people slept on it and

said, wait a minute, what did he mean by not actively considering? kind of the old "dumb and dumber" joke, are you saying there's a chance? that's creating uncertainty on the markets today. >> you mentioned the jobs report which is coming out at 8:30 eastern time. we'll, of course, bring the numbers live. frank, what will we be looking for in the numbers? >> economists are expecting an increase of 400,000 jobs for the month of april. that's actually a slight decrease in the growth we saw back in march of 431,000 jobs. we also know on tuesday, we learned there's about 5.5 million more jobs than workers here in the u.s. as almost a record number of people quit their jobs. the question is where can we actually see growth? we see gains in hospitality and travel. that'd be the sign of an economy that's continuing to strengthen. if those sectors had issues finding workers or we see reductions in workers in the areas, a lot of questions about the growth. >> cnbc's frank holland, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> willie. time for must-read opinion

pages. joining us is pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of the "post" eugene robinson. and "commentary magazine" and also an msnbc contributor, noah rothman. keeping the pandemic weird at the insistence of your wife, though you're not sure how to take it. >> i'm more attractive than i was before, according to her. >> right. >> i'm going to look at it on the bright side. >> cover a little more of your face is what she is asking you. looks good, noah. >> thanks. >> let's start with "the gop can still blow it." noah writes about even heavily favored candidates can quickly shift based on who is running. you write, in part, quote, robert "rj" regan should have cruised to victory in a district that voted republican by 26 points and which donald trump won by 16 points in 2020. the primary is all that should have mattered. tuesday night, regan lost a special election to his democratic opponent, and it

wasn't particularly close. this cautionary tale could have broader relevance with primary season fully upon it. tuesday's senate primary race in ohio, trump-endorsed candidate j.d. vance emerged victorious. it is unclear which vance ohio's republicans will get for their votes. the thoughtful, ivy league educated author and elite lawyer with somewhat nationalist sensibilities, or the idealogically malleable provocateur who never met a fringe figure he wouldn't legitimize. whether he believes what he says or not, he spelunked down the same lunntive rabbit holes. vance is the favorite to win his race in november, but so, too, was regan. the last thing the gop should want is for local races to become referendum on individual candidates rather than an up or down vote on the democrats record in office. despite the many advantages republicans enjoy today, a bad

candidate can still lose a winnable race. it's always true, noah. j.d. vance is an interesting case, as you say. he was one guy for a long time. he's now presented himself as this trump-loyal republican. having people like marjorie taylor greene, don jr., matt gates in to close the deal for him in the state of ohio. ohio voters seemed to like j.d. vance, at least in the republican primary. do you believe he can blow it as other candidates can? >> i think he can. he has much better prospects. he is a smart candidate, a smart guy. he can present himself as an electable figure that perhaps papers over the statements he made on the campaign trail as a primary candidate. but the statements he did make were ranging from just paranoia to the incandescently stupid. the notion here that we have fentanyl -- he talked about the idea that fentanyl is a conspiracy designed to kill maga

voters. that's a quote. i'm not making that up. the idea the border crisis has been engineered in order to punish people that the president does not like. these are the sort of statements that haunt you. the issue set that republicans should face or should be, you know, touting are blindingly obvious. it is the economy. it's cost of living. it's general incompetence in washington and the president's record in office. and democrats record in office, unified the last year and a half of government. anything off that message is off message. it is off brand. it's the sort of thing that can alienate the voters you need to win. a bad candidate can lose a race even in good partisan territory and a good political environment, or else we'd be calling sharon engle, roy moore, todd aiken, senator. these are the things that can swamp a candidate and can make the candidate the issue rather than the political environment. >> noah, can you give us an autopsy on how regan lost? how crazy was he? what'd he say?

what'd he do. >> the general stuff that's attractive to the online right. if you're in that environment, you can think it has broader purchase. the sort of -- obviously, 2020, relitigaing 2020. somehow, using some mechanism to avenge that loss and, you know, wave the bloody tunic of trump's presidency. vaccine skepticism is another. made some flippant comments about rape, which will be a big issue if we overturn roe. there's a lot of republicans who can put their foot in their mouth by saying things on abortion that reflects sentiments that are popular in the online right but are broadly -- that american electorate is broadly hostile to. of course, if you'reparanoid, he called feminism a plot conceived by jews. >> it is a jewish program to degrade and subgugate white men.

>> it is incredibly fooler to give voice to it, to pretend the sentiments have broader purchase. if you think they do, you're not representing the people you should be representing. in that district, he lost not only by 12 points in a very red district, but 8% of voters wrote in a protest vote. they couldn't stand this guy. we've seen it on the republican side, when primary voters elevate bad candidates in places where they should win, like alabama. you can lose. >> the bloody tunic of the trump presidency. >> gene robinson, this is the central issue for many of the candidates, the 2020 election, still an election almost two years ago. regan and others sort of positioned themselves as these rapid defenders of donald trump. they tried to de-certify the results and keep joe biden from office. j.d. vance espoused the same argument. there is an interesting snapshop of the case in the state of

georgia. brian kemp is up against david perdue, who leads every conversation and debate with, "the election was stole been 2020." he, though, is down by 25 points. it is a case-by-case thing. >> it's a case-by-case thing. look, that may be what the most involved and online republican primary voters want to hear. it may fire them up, and it may get you a nomination. i don't believe that's what the general election, electorate, wants to hear. they'll think that that's crazy because it is crazy. we know what happened in 2020. most americans know what happened in 2020. it's going to get a lot of these candidates in trouble. i mean, i think j.d. vance absolutely can blow a race that, on paper, you would say he ought

to win. i think he certainly can lose that race in ohio. i think, you know, his democratic opponent, tim ryan, is happy every time vance strays onto that, you know, far, far right path. >> now, we have the issue of abortion that has been thrust into the run-up to the midterms, gene. in your latest op-ed for the "washington post," it's entitled "ketanji brown jackson must wonder what she has gotten herself into." you write, in part, judge ketanji brown jackson must be having second thoughts when she takes her seat on the supreme court. she will be joining an institution whose out of control majority values religious dogma and raw political power over the freedoms our constitution is supposed to guarantee. and she'll become a junior member of a club that

increasingly ses filled with an mosty. justices thomas, gorsuch, kavanaugh, barrett, and alito are in charge and will be effectively running the court for years to come. jackson will probably enjoy pleasantly collegial relationships with some or all of them. if she is a smart and skilled jurist as she seemed during confirmation hearings, she might occasionally persuade one or more of them to agree with her analysis on an issue. realistically, she must know until the court's roster changes, on most hot-button cases, she will be limited to deciding how passionate her dissenting opinion should be. gene, i couldn't agree with you more. i mean, that's the reality inside the court. the reality that she's entering right now is also there is an investigation under way. there is this unprecedented

leak. trust in the court, trust within the court is broken. that's going to be fascinating to watch play out as they try and determine how this draft opinion was leaked. but then there is the democrats and how they play this in the midterms. >> right. >> because i have to tell you, chuck schumer doing this vote to codify abortion rights, to have two republican senators at least, you know, show their vote because there's some religious institutions that wouldn't be exempt from this and, therefore, they won't vote, i just don't know what it does. i think it is noise to people. i think there is a better way, possibly, to talk to americans about this constitutional right that appears to be taken away. >> yeah. i do think -- i assume democrats will find a way to communicate this message to americans. because this is a huge, huge

deal. i mean, if you read -- >> huge. >> -- justice alito's draft opinion, he says it's just about roe. it doesn't affect other landmark decisions. but his reasoning absolutely puts those other -- many other decisions in the crosshairs of this court. including the decision that guaranteed the right to contraception, to decision that voided laws that outlawed sexual relations between people of the same sex. the decision that -- the decision that legalized gay marriage nationwide. those decisions rested on the same logic and reasoning of roe and incited roe. if you get rid of roe v. wade, they're just standing out there

without support. you can guarantee they're going to be challenged. what is this court going to do? there is not a logical way to strike down roe. you can uphold all these other rulings, i think. i'm not a lawyer, but i've read a lot of court decisions. so this is a powerful message, i think. even if you just stick to roe, this is a decision that affects, you know, more than half the american population, you know, in a very visceral, personal way. it affects, really, all americans in a substantial way. and it is way out of step with where public opinion is. i realize public opinion on

abortion is more nuanced than some people will give it credit to be, but it is -- but it is not where the alito decision is. >> right. >> so i think this is a powerful issue for democrats that changes these races, changes these midterm elections, you know, in a -- >> it definitely could. >> we'll just have to see what happens. but this, you know -- sometimes you say this changes everything, and it really doesn't. this does change everything. >> in that political context gene is talking about, it's been fascinating to watch republicans handle this story over the last few day. they've achieved, it appears, the holy grail, 50 years fighting to pull back roe versus wade. yet, the messaging from leadership all the way down is this is a story about the leak. it undermines the supreme court. one of the last institutions we thought we could trust, and it was above politics. they don't necessarily want to talk about the substance of what

happens next because outright banning abortion is flatly unpopular in this country. >> it is. i think republicans in washington have played this pretty smartly. first of all, there's this idea abroad -- this has not happened yet. it is smart to keep your powder dry for when it does. we could be having arguments of things that may not occur. that's wide on their part. there is idea abroad which talking about this leak -- which is serious. first time we have a draft opinion either to influence proceedings in the court or undermine the institution is something we should talk about and take seriously. the idea that it somehow undermines the overturning of roe or overshadows or eclipses this is crazy talk. that's a crazy idea. nothing is going to overshadow roe. we can spend two days talking about -- >> that's what republicans have explicitly said. mitch mcconnell said, the story is the leak. you ask about the substance, the story is the leak. >> it's not going to be the leak when the decision comes out, though. when it comes out, we'll talk about this. i'm not a lawyer either, with respect to gene. i do think there is a way that

republicans can talk about this, particularly the idea that because roe is decided -- was decided in a way that drew these rights from not only the bill of rights but the 14th amendment, equal production clause, it was tortuously decided, it brings into account all the other equal protection rights that shouldn't be a part of the conversation. they can talk about that. second, republicans would be smart to defer to the court's logic and remand this issue to the states. if they play to the idea that this is an issue for the federal legislature, that's exactly the territory democrats want to fight them on. they want this to be a federal issue. republicans should say, this is a states issue. courts decide it. this has nothing to do with us, especially on the federal level. we're out of it. >> gene, last word on this. >> well, i don't think that's going to work. i mean, this is a right that has been guaranteed for 50 years nationwide. and, yes, there has been a constant fight about it and that

fight will continue whichever way this decision comes out, but i don't think you can un-ring that bell. i really think going back to a state-by-state, patchwork set of different abortion laws where it's completely banned in one state and, across the border, it is completely allowed is not workable. it's just not workable, i think, in today's america. this is going to be a very, very big deal politically, potentially for the rest of our lives. we're going to be fighting over this. >> decision in june likely. we'll see how it plays in the fall. eugene robinson and noah, thank you, both. the new york mets pull off their biggest comeback in 25 years. had even mike barnicle rooting for the mets last night. >> yeah. performance at fenway park not seen since the days of babe ruth.

>> oh, stop it. turn this off. >> historic day in major league baseball next on "morning joe." this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last.

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deep center. he'll come in to score. the mets take the lead. unbelievable! >> starling marte with the rbi double that capped a seven-run ninth inning rally. bringing the new york mets back from six down at the start of that inning. it marks the mets' largest ninth inning comeback in a quarter of a century. they beat the phillies, 8-7. adding major league leading 19th victory to their win column. in boston, we saw a two-way performance at fenway not seen since the days of babe ruth. pitching at the historic

ballpark for the very first time, the angels superstar, show ohtani got strikeouts and hit from the plate, as well. rbi single smoked off the green monster in left field. knocks his own number 17 off the scoreboard. the angels beat the red sox, 8-0. the loss sinking boston to a last place tie in the east with the orioles. yankees had the night off. first place yankees. last place red sox. for now. yankees had the night off, so they were at the garden taking in the new york rangers first round win against the pittsburgh penguins. >> owned by the boston red sox. >> look at that, hammering down. rizzo, judge, lemahieu,pounding beers on the jumbotron. let's start happy with the mets. they're great, fun. they're having a great season.

>> flipping through the channels last night, as you know -- >> try to keep him away from the red sox. >> i have no life. i'm looking for baseball games. i get the mets, top of the ninth. down 7-1. no name people. >> yeah. >> i mean, lindor hits a home run to lead off the top of the ninth. he's a big star. jd davis, nimmo, key base hits. they come back to win the game. they are a fun team to watch. a really fun team. >> really? he was so excited, he went on the twitter machine. >> he did. you tweeted in favor of the mets, a rare tweet from mike barnicle. >> i'll tell you something, halfway through the tweet, i'm thinking, how stupid is this? on the other guy, ohtani, he is unbelievable. >> unbelievable. >> he is an absolutely legitimate reason to buy a ticket and watch a baseball game. >> that's right. >> 85% of the pitches he threw yesterday, as i watched, 85% were strikes. >> unreal. >> incredible. >> they couldn't --

>> 98, 99 miles an hour, boom. >> this come out and hit third in the lineup and hit as well as he does. richard, in our lifetimes, we have not seen it. >> no. i mean, there's a couple of reasons to watch baseball. he's number one. mike trout, number two. there's some players today who are as good as we have ever seen. it is a treat. >> it is. for now, what are we, 24, 25 games into the season, richard, our yankees for now look great. injuries are coming. we know that. >> i know. but the idea of a subway series, really, come on. you can almost feel it. you can almost feel it. >> i can't. [ laughter ] >> mike is mourning this morning. >> richard needs to stick to golf or maybe foreign policy. >> phil mickelson, $40 million he's reported to have lost in betting. >> what about this new golf league over in saudi arabia? >> they are putting it together. >> greed on the part of the players. so-called sports

saudis are looking to cleanse their reputation. >> big names playing along, mika. >> sand trap. >> there is a connection between golf and foreign policy. richard, well done. good job, kid. we'll give you another chance. coming up, from dead russian generals to a sunken warship, u.s. intelligence is having a major impact on the war. but the pentagon is not taking credit for what's happening in ukraine. also ahead, we'll explain how lawmakers in louisiana are taking anti-abortion legislation to a whole new level. we're back in one minute. orkouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences.

now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. it is the top of the second hour of "morning joe." welcome back. 7:00 on the east coast. live look at new york city. this morning, we have another report on how u.s. intelligence

is helping ukraine in the battlefield. first, on taking out russian generals, and now about sinking russia's largest warship. we'll talk about whether or not releasing that information is helpful to ukraine. pentagon press secretary john kirby will join us to talk about the extent to which the u.s. is actually involved in this war. plus, the chairman of the house democratic caucus, congressman hakeem jeffries will be our guest to explain his party's plan for abortion rights if roe is, in fact, overturned. we'll start with the ukrainian fighters which may be making their last stand in mariupol inside that steel plant, as russian forces move violently to seize it. this as nbc news learns how u.s. intelligence helped lead to the sinking of that russian warship. nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella has more. >> reporter: nbc news reports

u.s. intelligence shared with ukraine helped lead to ukraine's sinking of the russian cruiser moskva, one of the most embarrassing setbacks russia has faced since the start of the war. the news coming on the heels of a "new york times" report that says the u.s. has given ukraine realtime battlefield intelligence. american officials said it led to the killings of russian generals. nbc news previously reported the u.s. does share intelligence, but the pentagon denied targeting generals. >> we do not provide intelligence on the location of senior military leaders on the battlefield. >> reporter: in ukraine, the mariupol steel plant facing assault. artillery exploding and smoke rising, seen in this video shared by the ukrainian national guard. a ukrainian commander saying they're under attack from the air and ground. we're fighting heavy, bloody battles, he says. hundreds are believed to still be hiding under the plant. many of them women and children. after about 100 were evacuated

on sunday, including tatiana, who was hiding underground for two months. i'm terribly worried about the civilians and wounded soldiers still there, she says. an adviser to president zelenskyy claimed the russians want to declare victory in mariupol by may 9th, when russia celebrates its defeat of the nazis in world war ii. russia denies the claim. as the battle rages for mariupol's steel plant, those who fled wait and hope. anna is six months pregnant. i wanted my child to be born in mariupol, she says. we bought an apartment. we were fixing it up. we just never thought we'd be in this situation. now, she says, it's hard to see a way back. >> joining us now, u.s. national editor at the "financial times," ed luce. former spokesperson for the u.s. mission to the united nations,

hagar. she worked at the treasury department. hagar, i'll start with you. as we watch this sort of unfold, this last stand at the steel plant, there are so many atrocities that have already been committed across ukraine. what is it that the united nations can do to be effective in this, if anything? >> there are limited things they can do. one of the things, first, is that they can build the list of atrocities and evidentiary, an indictment, of all the atrocities committed by the russian soldiers and military in ukraine to help with future accountability. one of the things we used to say when i was at the u.s. mission to the u.n. is that accountability will be served at some point. and so if -- this is something that can help with the international criminal court, for example. especially if the russian government falls or changes

hands in power, and you see it all the time. you see it in sudan, liberia, other cases. one of the things the u.n. did successfully was establish a safe corridor for those trying to evacuate from mariupol. but it's been few, only a couple hundred every day. the evacuations continue. that's something they've been able to do with the international committee for the red cross. >> you say that -- excuse me, mika. go ahead. you say that, but in coordination with the international red cross, the united nations, the fact that they haven't just done it is appalling to many people. appalling. >> it is. oh, i would agree with you, it is appalling. the u.n. is feckless. it is facing an existential crisis. syria already showed that at the u.n. ukraine only exposes that -- those flaws and how broken the system is even more. i completely agree with you. that's why i want to be clear, the only things the u.n. are able to do is build an evidentiary of atrocities,

meaning collect evidence. that's it. and try and help with the safe corridors. otherwise, they're unable to end this conflict, which is part of their job. the secretary general is unable to mediate conflict. his number one job. obviously, russia is, as a security member, as a veto-wielding power at the security council, they are going to block russia if anybody wants to kick them out, they'll block sanctions. they'll block any kind of peacekeeping mission. they will block everything in ukraine. so i want to be clear, the u.n. is not something we should look to to save this situation. there are just minor things they can do. >> the question, understandably, always is, what more can the united states do? what more can the world do? but let's pause and look at even the last three weeks. $800 million aid package from the united states. another $800 million. last week, a proposed $33 billion package. these are the kind of investments, as we heard from secretary austin, that we believe now we can weaken the

russian military. these seem to be the investments that say the united states, europe believes ukraine can defend itself and push russia out and win this war. >> that's right. i can tell you, having been on the inside, that the u.s. government doesn't give that kind of military aid. this amount of military aid this quickly is unprecedented. they wouldn't do it if, one, they didn't think the ukrainian military could win and that this aid would bring an end to this war. number two, if they didn't believe that it was critical that our assistance were critical in this war, in particular. that's because this war matters a lot to the international world order that has been established since world war ii. it matters to democracies. it matters to other countries that aren't part of nato, that could be aggressed by russia or other dictadictatorships, by th. it is something, clearly, they think matters and that could be successful. >> so unprecedented aid for sure

coming from the united states and surrounding countries, ed luce, and also these reports of intelligence being shared that might be leading to the deaths of russian generals and also the embarrassing sinking of the moskva. it can't be lost on vladimir putin that his ship sunk. ultimately, it's the ukrainians who are executing this. do you think it matters if the united states is revealed to be as sharing this intelligence? >> it certainly is a different quality of intelligence leak, signifying u.s. involvement, intimate involvement with targeting generals than we've seen before. i think this is slightly less understandable than some of the earlier preemptive, so-called preemptive intelligence leaks, which were kind of, as we discussed before, messing with putin's head. giving him the idea that he can't trust anybody around him.

these leaks, the one about the moskva and the one about the targeting of up to 12 russian generals being killed, look like domestic bragging. this looks more like american intelligence agencies or officials, rather, claiming credit on the american stage for being really effective. i'm not sure how wise that is, both in terms of protecting sources of american information but also in terms of provoking russia to escalate this war. if you can trace the death of particular generals to specific u.s. intelligence knowingly supplied, that's a different kind of intelligence leak. so i'm a little wary of the latest round of leaks, i have to say. >> ed luce, as we look at the ukrainians holding on, just holding on with every last bit of energy they have to that

steel plant in mariupol, if and when the russians take over, don't know how many civilians will be able to get out before that happens, you really think ukrainians are just going to let that go? first of all, it is an important land bridge strategically. secondly, it doesn't appear to be in their nature to say, okay, we've been holding out in this steel plant. we've been fighting for the last drop of blood. we'll let it go now. >> i don't see that happening. it is extraordinary if you think about it. >> it is. >> any day in the last 40, 50 days, mariupol could have fallen and it hasn't. the resources the russian military have focused on not just mariupol but that steel plant, in particular, and, yet, they still aren't able to claim that they've taken the city. it's extraordinary. the ukrainians are fighting to

the last person, in the last corner of the last labyrinth of this steel plant. clearly, putin would like to say on monday, may the 9th, the victory of the fascism parade, that he's taken mariupol. that's 72 hours from now. given the russian military's inability to clean it up, i doubt very much he is going to be able to say that. so this is a real testament to the tenacity, inch by inch, of ukrainian resistance. >> hagar, what do you make of the nuclear rhetoric out there? some of it is coming from the talk show host set in russia as they joke openly using a nuclear weapon on new york city. but vladimir putin hasn't shown red lines for himself. he is attacking humanitarian convoys. he is killing civilians. he is killing women and children at train stations. how seriously do you take that talk from putin? he's smart enough to know that

if he launched even a tactical nuclear weapon, it'd mean very, very bad things for him and his country. >> he is. it's hard to say because the russians talk a big game, but they don't bluff a lot. there aren't a lot of examples in our recent history where the russian government, under president putin, has bluffed. often, including, by the way, with regards to this invasion. but the fact is, they've been making these threats since the very beginning of the invasion of ukraine. it's only escalated. as we have continued, we and nato partners have continued to increase arms and arm shipments to ukraine, that rhetoric is increasing. now, sergey lavrov has said that the threat of nuclear war is, quote, considerable. and i don't think that that means that new york is about to be blown up like these russian tv hosts joked. i thought it was very immature, frankly. it gives a very -- it is a lack of understanding of how nuclear war works. the russian government knows it would be muture.

-- mutual. we have hundreds of satellites that monitor russia's nuclear activity. we can see that. we have just as much strength on that side. they do know that. that said, we haven't talked about a nuclear war or the threat of nuclear war this much in decades. that's something to be said. so the fact is, we have to monitor it closely. you always have a threat, i think, of nuclear weapons being used in ukraine. >> ed luce, i want to jump to another topic because you've written about the fed and the recent rate hike. you say that, in a way, the fed has lost the plot in all of this, especially as it pertains to inflation. explain what you mean. >> well, the fed, you know, spent most of 2021 saying that inflation was a transitory problem. it was brief. it was passing. it would go away. therefore, the fed's extraordinary accommodative stance of keeping zero interest

rates but also buying tens of billions of dollars worth a month in mortgages to, you know, keep the property market booming, that that was all okay. this inflation was going to go away. i think the fed really was late in recognizing. it was behind the curve in recognizing what more and more economists, not just larry summers, but many, many people throughout the year for saying. this is lasting. we have global supply chain issues. we had a massive stimulus. we've got a lot of money chasing a limited supply of goods. that's created a 1970s style sort of in-built inflation. it is trying to catch up. when i say the fed has lost the plot, this hasn't happened for many years. we haven't seen inflation for decades, really. you know, you can't blame them. they're only human. but they are behind the curve. that means they might have to raise rates by more, risking

u.s. recession, than they would have otherwise had to have raised them if they had spotted this sooner. >> ed luce, "how the fed lost the plot," you can find that in the "financial times." hagar, thank you very much for coming on, as well. we appreciate you both. still ahead on "morning joe," pentagon press secretary john kirby is our guest on the heels of that reporting about how u.s. intel played a role in the sinking of a russian warship. plus, what the draft ruling on abortion could mean for lgbtq americans. we'll read from jonathan capehart's timely new piece for the "washington post." and a look at the front pages from across the country, including a huge walgreens settlement with florida over claims the company exacerbated the state's opioid crisis. you're watching "morning joe. "we'll be right back.

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unconscionably dispensing enormous quantities of the painkillers. the settlement calls for $620 million to fund community walgreens denies any wrongdoing. in connecticut, the f applications for retail cannabis data from the state's department of consumer protection shows that15,000 applications have been submitted. a dramatic jump from several thousand applications just last week. clearly, there is an interest. "citizen times" in north carolina. the number of people in the united states who died from gun violence reached a record high in 2020. the total number of people, average of 124 people across the country died each day. that's a 15% jump from 2019.

the "star gazette" reports animal rights groups in new york are challenging the $230 million the horse racing industry receives every year. the groups argue the states should direct the subsiies to education. the challenge comes amid a series of horse deaths and waning attendance at racetracks. racing advocates say the decision would kill racing in the state of new york. and up in maine, the "morning sentinol" gives a warning on fresh water fish. hi forever chemicals in fish that exceed the cdc's recommended amount for consumption, mika. >> there you go. coming up, chief justice john roberts makes his first appearance since the supreme court leak. he had a warning for the person that made that draft public. also, former secretary of

state hillary clinton says the consequences of overturning roe v. wade goes beyond a woman's right to choose. we're going to have her comments straight ahead on "morning joe."

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this opinion is dark. it is incredibly dangerous, and it is not just about a woman's right to choose. it is about much more than that. and i hope people now are fully aware of what we're up against. because the only answer is at the ballot box, to elect people who will stand up for every american's rights. any american says, look, i'm not a woman, this doesn't affect me. i'm not black, that doesn't affect me. i'm not gay, doesn't affect me. once you allow this kind of extreme power to take hold, you have no idea who they will come for next. >> that's a really good warning.

by the way, in his first public appearance since the release of that supreme court draft opinion, chief justice john roberts spoke at a judicial conference in atlanta last night and called the leak absolutely appalling. he added, quote, if the person behind it thinks it will affect our work, that's just foolish. federal law enforcement officials are not involved in the investigation into who released the document at this point. the justice department's view is that the leak did not constitute a federal crime. of course, as we learn more about how it happened, maybe that could change. the senate will vote next week on a bill to codify into federal law a woman's right to seek an abortion. majority leader chuck schumer announced the vote yesterday, which is scheduled to take place on wednesday. the motion, which needs 60 votes to proceed, is widely expected to fail, potentially with unanimous gop opposition. when a slightly different

version of the bill was voted on in february, it was opposed by every republican senator, along with joe manchin of west virginia. manchin was asked yesterday about where he stands this time around. >> i haven't seen the legislation. i'm anxious to see the legislation, what they're going to be doing, how they're going to present it. i really am. >> and in another blow to democrats' hopes of getting the bill passed, republican senator susan collins of maine, who claims to be in favor of abortion rights, announced yesterday that she, too, would be voting no once again. this just days after expressing dismay at the possibility that conservative supreme court justices misled her about their positions on roe v. wade in order to secure her confirmation votes. in an exclusive interview, msnbc's symone sanders spoke with the first lady about her reaction to the leak supreme

court draft opinion that would overturn roe v. wade. take a look. >> as a mother and as a grandmother, what would you say to young women right now, particularly young women who are upset about the possible erosion of their ability to make decisions about their own bodies? >> well, i guess the first thing i would say is that -- how shocking it was, actually, when we heard the news. joe and i got the call that, you know, it had been leaked. the president matters. the election of the president matters. because he's the one who puts the justices on the court. but if this goes to a state level, our state legislators are going to matter, too. so people have to get involved. >> let's bring in symone sanders. her new show "symone," premieres this weekend on msnbc, starting with a wonderful interview with dr. jill biden. symone, i got to ask you about

the democrats and their strategy moving forward. i don't understand this vote to codify abortion rights, which is destined to fail. what does it prove, except that republicans still stand in their corner on this, which will rally their base? >> i think you're asking the right question, mika. thank you, guys, for having me this morning. notably in that interview, the first lady did not say what people need to do is ensure that their legislators vote for this bill that's going to hit the floor on wednesday. she talked about the need to elect folks, and she's explicitly talking about the midterm elections. i think senator chuck schumer is trying to show that senate democrats are doing something. you know, show this urgency, even though he knows he doesn't have the votes to pass that bill on wednesday. let alone debate about the bill. >> so what would -- i mean, if you're advising democrats about their strategy to the midterms,

how would you put into words what has just happened here? isn't this an issue, finally, where you could actually bring some republicans over? i know a lot of republican women who are like, whoa, this is one thing i'm for, and that is the right to choose. is this, perhaps, a very important tool in a strategy toward the midterms, where they could have a very clear message about the republicans, and what would it be? >> i think -- definitely, it could be. i think we heard a glimpse of that from the president this week. he was asked again, i do believe in the last 24, 48 hours, particularly about the leak. he talked about the fact that this is more than just abortion. this is about a right to privacy. i've heard a number of other democrats describe this vote as a -- this potential overturning as a gateway drug to other assaults on other rights. and so i do think that that

would be a persuasive thing for the midterm elections. i also think, mika, that folks should talk about this as a criminalization of women, criminalization of abortion, criminalization of those who aid women in getting the health care they need, if that health care is an abortion. criminalization of doctors. there is a bill that's going to the floor in louisiana today -- or pardon me, in the coming days, specifically about making -- getting an abortion a homicide. this is extreme and crazy. i think that's how people should talk about it. >> i think it fits into what the president was saying, trying to sort of paint the right as what they are. i mean, especially trump right. in a way, i wonder if it is even more simple than that. they don't need to work so hard. democrats need to stay focused. i wonder if you agree with this. and say, you know what, they want to overturn your constitutional rights. do you like your rights? republicans don't like your rights.

number two, what have they gotten done? they've promised all sorts of things, health care, nothing. absolutely nothing. number three, they're crazy. they hold on to conspiracy theories. they follow donald trump down a spiral of lies. they stand by him even though this guy wanted to bomb mexico and lie about it. it seems simple to me, symone. >> mika, some people need to go ahead and clip this and show it to the folks in their districts. i 110% agree with you. i think it is not all republicans, right, but it is enough folks not speaking up to where i have a question mark. so i think that's -- >> right. >> -- what this midterm election is going to come down to. what has gotten done? who is standing up for you, people at home? and are we for the extremes? i feel like, honestly, mika, we're living in the -- or we're about to be living in the early days of the "handmaid's tale," and i don't think many women across the country want that.

folks have to take a hard look at what is happening in their districts, in their hometowns, in their state legislators, see what their gubernatorial candidates are saying, and make decisions about what kind of state, what kind of commonwealth, what kind of america they want to live in. >> first lady jill biden is traveling to europe, as you know, symone, to spend the mother's day weekend meeting with refugees on the ukraine border. she left from joint base andrews overnight for this four-day trip to romania and slovakia. before she left, you asked her about her relationship with the first ladies of ukraine and poland. >> since you are going to the slovakia-ukraine border, i'm wondering, which you spoken with mrs. zelenskyy? >> i've gotten a letter from mrs. zelenskyy, and i've also spoken to the first lady of poland. she gave me her list of things they needed. so, you know, i think it's -- i mean, we're in a conversation, but it's not really, you know,

one-to-one. though i did talk on the phone with mrs. duda. >> symone, looking forward to your show starting. what is your goal for the show? >> mika, my goal for the show, you know, "symone" is news to know from politics to pop culture. we talk a lot of politics but we get into pop culture. the first lady talks passionately about the fact that her independence is very important to her. i think that is fascinating at a time where, as we just discussed, many women are uset and concerned about their rights getting rolled back 50 years. we'll get into that. i have a segment we're branding all about culture. i have a political panel. we'll also have our culture critics, mika. we're going to get into the weeds and go beyond the headlines. i'm just so excited. i can't wait for people to see us this weekend. >> i love it. welcome aboard, symone sanders. >> thank you. >> we'll be watching the premiere of your new show on

msnbc tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. willie. >> congrats, symone. we'll be watching. joining us now, congressman jeffries of new york, chairman of the house democratic caucus. just want to get your reaction to what we've seen all week, this leak first reported by "politico" that re versus wade likely, not for certain yet, but likely will be overturned come june by the supreme court. what is the fallout in the 8th district of new york? what do you expect to see? >> good morning. great to be on. people are incredibly alarmed. this is a radical right-wing runaway republican-sanctioned assault by this supreme court on our freedom, on our constitution, on really what we stand for as an inclusive democratic society. so the battle lines have been drawn, and the stakes are very crystallized. you either stand on the side of

freedom, or you stand on the side of tyranny. you stand on the side of a woman's freedom to make her own health care decisions, or you stand on the side of government-mandated pregnancies. even in the case of rape or incest. you stand on the side of the constitution, or you stand on the side of the cult which wants to impose its values on the rest of us. >> so what are you telling, mr. chairman, people in your district but also just democrats? by the way, not just democrats, as mika points out, women and their families across the country are deeply concerned about what may be coming here. what are you telling them in terms of recourse? what can you do as a political leader? what can citizens be doing right now? if the supreme court is, in fact, going to overturn re versus wade, there's nothing they can do about that, but what is next? what recourse do they have? >> it's important to get active, get engaged, and get into some good trouble. i think from my standpoint, that

means exercise your right to protest. in the first amendment, to petition your government, to demand that the government act in ways that are consistent with our values. i think an initial step means making sure state legislative bodies across the country are not rolling back the woman's right to choose and her freedom to make her own health care decisions. that we can strengthen those rights as we've done in new york state. but it is also going to be important not just to protest, not just to petition your government, but to vote. vote like your life depends on it. because your quality of life clearly depends on it. >> congressman, let me ask you to look into the future six months from now when the fall elections occur. what do you think will drive more people to the polls? what we're talking about right now, this soon-to-be issued opinion, overturning roe versus wade.

looks like that'll occur. or the cost of gasoline, groceries, cost of living, and probably the fact that we'll be in a recession at that point? what do you think will be paramount in voters' minds? >> well, it'll be an all of the above approach, i believe. everything is at stake. this is an extraordinary constellation of issues. i certainly hope we're not in a recession and don't believe we will be. although, of course, these are uncertain economic times. in many ways, i think, led by president biden, we're in a strong position economically. good paying jobs created over his first 15 months. that's a record in american history. 3.6% unemployment. fastest rate of economic growth we've seen in 40 years. deficit has been reduced. we're dealing with inflationary prices and pressures. food and gas prices high. legislatively, we'll act decisively, led by speaker

pelosi, to deal with the challenges. hopefully we'll see improvement in the fall. we're going to continue to work hard on these kitchen table, pocketbook issues affecting the lives of everyday americans. while at the same time, making it clear that the stakes are incredibly high in terms of the republican right-wing radical, reckless attack on our freedom. this is just the beginning. i agree with former secretary of state hillary clinton. >> mr. chairman, in addition to the price of groceries, people in your district are concerned about crime. certainly, mayor eric adams was brought into office with the number one issue for voters being quality of life. the spike in crime rates in new york city. how is he doing on that count, and what more should be done to bring down crime in districts like yours? >> he is doing incredibly well. i think he set the right tone and focus as he's made clear, consistently, public safety is the prerequisite to prosperity. communities that are hit the hardest are those similar to

ones i represent in central brooklyn. for far too long, they've been often left behind. i think both making sure we strengthen the relationship between the police and the community with neighborhood-based policing and law enforcement initiatives that respect the constitution and fairness and address the drivers of crime, not randomly go after people who may just be black and brown wearing the wrong things. i think that's going to continue to be important. then investing in youth empowerment, youth programming, enrichment programs, things that give young people productive outlets so they're not lulled into doing destructive things. >> before i let you go, mr. chairman, i want to ask about the redistricting fight that's going on in the state of new york right now. if you can explain for our viewers what exactly has been going on. the "times" reports national democrats are making a last-ditch attempt to get the maps, which favor democrats

reinstated. why is it an important issue for you? >> redistricting is incredibly important because it basically determines how the voice of the people will be able to be expressed, both for state legislative lines and congressional lines, for a ten-year period of time. so the most important principle for me is making sure that everyone has an opportunity to weigh in. the highest court here in new york state has thrown out the lines, both congressional and state legislative, claiming that they were in violation of the constitution. two things have now happened that are extraordinary. one, instead of giving the legislator the people's representatives, the opportunity to cure the defects the court may see, which happened in every other part of the country, it has grown this case to a judge in stubben county, in the village of hope, closer to

pittsburgh, cleveland, and toronto, than it is where the majority of people are located. a single hearing today that almost no one from down state new york can get to to have their voices heard. we have to open up this process because if there is a fair process, not a flawed process, we'll get fair lines. >> hearings in the village of bath, about 300 miles from new york city, as you say. chairman of the house democratic caucus, congressman hakeem jeffries, thanks for your time this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead, mika, what do you have? >> senate democrats likely don't have the numbers to codify abortion rights into federal law. governors are stepping up, though. illinois governor jb pritzker joins us to talk about his pledge to keep his state a safe haven for a woman's right to choose. plus, we're watching out for another indicator on the health of the u.s. economy. following the worst day on wall street since the start of the

pandemic and fears of a recession. we'll have the new jobs number ofs numbers when they cross from the labor department. plus, the courtroom battle playing out in virginia between amber heard and actor johnny depp. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ biden: we have a crisis: the price at the pump. our prices are rising because of putin's actions..

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graphic testimony in her defense against a defamation claim brought by her ex-husband johnny depp. miguel almaguer has the details. >> i couldn't breathe. >> reporter: detailing disturbing allegations of physical and verbal and mental abuse. >> my head was bashing against the back of the war. i remember just trying to get to breathe to tell him that he was hurting me. >> reporter: the sortid and defamation trail putting amber heard on the stand to describe her view of their toxic relationship. >> so ashamed of the names we'd call each other. it was awful. >> reporter: testifying for a second day, the actress said dep's drug use triggered violent fights her providing photos of dep passing out in hotel rooms or floors after consuming

cocktails of drugs. behind the scenes of their red carpet appearances, the couple accusing each other of mental torment and bloody physical attacks. >> miss heard would get up set, angry, and argumentive and violent. >> reporter: johnny depp's $50 million claim comes after the actress wrote a 2018 op-ed about surviving domestic abuse though never naming depp. he said heard's allegations cost him his career. and she said her life was destroyed by dep. after days of damaging testimony, an explosive hollywood drama that no one wants a role in. >> nbc's miguel almaguer with that report. willie. >> some news out of louisiana

where lawmakers now have advanced a bill that would expand its homicide law to include abortion. meaning women who end the pregnancy and doctors who perform the procedure could be prosecuted. opponents of the bill say it could also restrict in-vitro fertilization and some types of emergency couldn't raw sepgs because it would grant constitutional rights to an embryo at moment of fertilization. john bel edwards would not comment on this most recent bill. the measure now heads to the state's full house of representatives. louisiana is one of those 13 states we've been telling you about that would immediately ban abortion if roe, in fact, it overturned come june or july. mika, this takes things a step further. we'll see how it advances, whether it goes through the louisiana legislature and whether the governor supports it. but making abortion a homicide

in louisiana potentially. >> and this is sick. and this is such an epic betrayal an so many levels and this draft opinion does seem to the fact that might be inevitable. it might be tweaked a little bit but decades, decades of precedent. a constitutional right is going to be overturned. thank you very much, donald trump. and his choices for the supreme court. this matters, your vote matters. for so many reasons including this epic betrayal of women and anybody who loves them across america. jonathan capehart has a new piece in "the washington post" entitled "alito's draft ruling on abortion is a warning to lgbtq parents." until the leaked draft opinion that would overturn roe v. wade was published on monday, i didn't fully understand just how dependent my same-sex marriage is on a woman's right to choose

an abortion. now i do. and i'm terrified. without roe, the foundation for the 2015 decision that legalized same sex margin is gone and the more than 568,000 same sex margins performed since then including my own could be invalidated. fight for women's rights is all our fight. it always has been. but thanks to the leak of alito's draft opinion, i know that it is not just a matter of solidarity, even if the final ruling in the next month or two isn't as radical as the draft opinion, what alito put forth is a clear warning to lgbtq americans that our rights could be striped next. hillary clinton made this warning that this is just the beginning. and this is crazy town. this is such an unbelievable betrayal. this is a constitutional right being overturned and this is

something that the democrats need to rally around and get people to vote for -- for candidates who are going to preserve a woman's right to choose. it matters this much. still ahead, pentagon press secretary john kirby joins us at top of the hour. we'll ask him about the u.s. intelligence that is being passed on to ukrainian forces. also ahead, we'll look at how civilians caught on the front lines in ukraine are finding creative ways to defend themselves. "morning joe" continues in just a moment.

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it is the top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." look at that beautiful lush look

at the white house. it is friday, finally friday may 6th and we're following new reporting that u.s. intelligence left behind some of ukraine's biggest wins on the battleground to taking out generals to sinking russia's largest warship. how involved is the u.s. in this war? pentagon press secretary john kirby will join us in just a moment. plus, the possible overturning of roe since the fight over abortion rights to the states with both sides rushing to take action. we'll talk to j.b. pritzker who has already a expanded abortion rights in his state. the april job's report is due out in about half an hour from now and we'll bring it to you live when the numbers cross. but let's begin with the latest from ukraine. as the fighting rages on in war-torn mariupol. nbc news correspondent aaron mclaughlin reports.

>> reporter: the sinking of russian cruiser moskva, russia's pride of the black sea shocked the world after two missiles struck the vessel on april 14th. this morning u.s. officials telling nbc news, that happened with the help of the united states. americans identified and located the vessel when asked by ukraine officials. this video appears to show the moskva after it was hit sitting low in the water with smoke billowing. the u.s. did not know in advance that ukraine was going to target the moskva and was not involved in the decision to strike the official said, adding the intelligence shared was meant to help ukraine defend itself. the news after yesterday's "new york times" report citing unnamed senior american officials, that the u.s. is providing intelligence that allow ukrainians to target and kill a number of russian generals. on thursday the pentagon responded. >> we do not provide intelligence on the location of senior military leaders on the battlefield.

>> as the russians work to clear mariupol so that citizens could mark monday's victoryory day this man said. as russia prepares to celebrate the end of world war 2. while bloody battles rage at the city's old steel plant where hundreds of ukrainian fighters an civilians remain trapped inside. overnight president zelenskyy saying the russian shelling is ongoing. just imagine the hell, he said. a hell that mariupol photographer said is all too familiar having fled the city just days ago. his images are chilling, including the photos of a diary written been an 8-year-old boy whose family was injured in the shelling. a page from the diary reads, my grandfather died, the boy writes. i have a wound on my back, torn skin. my sister has a head injury. my mother has a whole in her leg. he reads the final words of the boyez diary entry out loud. >> my trip to mariupol is --

>> the haunting portrait of innocence lost to war. >> erin mclaughlin reporting from kyiv for us again this morning. joining us now, john kirby. admiral, it is good to have you on with us again. let me begin with the new nbc reporting this morning about the american role in the sinking of the moskva, the flagship for the russian military. what exactly was the american role? our reporting said that ukraine saw a ship out in the black sea and that is that the moskva and confirmed that and that is the ship and that is where it is. is that accurate. >> i'm not getting into the specific of the intelligence that we provide ukraine. i think you could understand that. we do provide them information about russian units, both at sea and ashore. that allows them to help to continue to defend themselves.

that is part of the information that we've been providing them now for weeks. but it is not helpful, i don't think, to get out into the particulars and specifics of that. we didn't provide them specific targeting and we were not involved in their decision to strike that ship. >> so it is fair to say there was some role by the united states in identifying the ship at least. >> yeah, i'm not going there, willie, i'm not going to get into intelligence we're providing ukrainians. we're doing it every day to help defend themselves and we'll continue to do that and one of the best ways to continue to do that is to not talk about it publicly. >> and what is your view of the nbc report but "the new york times" before that the united states was sharing intelligence about the location of leaders in the russian military, about this information getting out to the press and then to the public. is that helpful or hurtful to your cause? >> it is definitely not helpful. it is hard to see how it is helpful for sources to be talking to reporters about intelligence that is being provided to ukraine to help

defend themselves. and you saw me at the podium, we provide them to be useful and timely information about russian units. but we're not giving them targeting information for senior military leaders on the the battlefield. it is unhelpful and unconscionable for some of the leaks and people talking about specifics on the intelligence that we're providing the ukrainians. we want to continue that process, to help them defend themselves and part of that is not just the materials or the weapons and it is the information and we want to preserve an protect that information going forward. >> do you agree that leaks like this help vladimir putin make his case that propaganda that we're not just fighting ukraine, we're fighting the united states and we're fighting the europe and the west and this is a world war, proxy war for the united states. >> yeah, i absolutely do. in fact dimitri peskov said something similar yesterday, acknowledging that this is just

the united states now involved in some sort of proxy effort. so it is not helpful. and again, i mean, when you talk about intelligence, the less said the better. and if we want to be able to continue this effort to help ukraine defend itself, we need to protect that kind of information. so again, totally irresponsible that people are out there talking about this. >> so admiral, every day when we talk about the issue of the war in ukraine, and it is every day that we do it, as you know. in addition to wars like targeting, the words logistics comes up almost every time we talk about the war. >> yes, sir. >> and a lot of people out there think that the word logistics makes take a right and a left and you know the street signs. could you, from your experience, explain to our audience the difficulty, the degree of difficulty for the russian army in moving an army across the battlefield with all of the component parts, mechanized units and what that encompasses.

>> there is an old saying, an army moves on its stomach. that is a plat way of saying any army in a operates on ground needs to have supplies, food, fuel, ammunition and spare parts and if you don't properly plan to have that material available to your army as it tries to move forward, then you won't be able to move forward any more. or at least you won't be able to move forward as far as you want and that is what we're seeing in the donbas right now. the russians have made uneven incremental progress not very far or fast and one of the things that we believe that is the case because we think they are worried about getting too far out ahead of their supply lines. they did that in kyiv and it cost them the battle. that is part of the reason. they're still trying to figure out and fix their logistics and sustainment issues. they don't have a process to provide support and resupply to troops in the field. they use paved roads and

railroads and they don't have a nimble process like we do. and it is continuing to cause a problem for them. not to mention, mike, that it is the spring there and so it is very muddy. and so they are now limited to pave roads an railroads to get stuff to their troops. they can't go off road right now. >> so admiral, just looking at map, you could see the strategic importance of mariupol to the russians. what the concerns about what is going to be happening in mariupol over the next 24, 36, 48 hours especially as we lead up to may 9th, victory day in russia? >> yeah, some day they're going to write a book about the resistance in mariupol. or many books. it is just incredible that they've been able to hang on in that steel plant and force the russians to devote fire power and effort to mariupol. they are still bombarding it. you've seen the video and you're showing the video. we know they still have russian troops dedicated to mariupol and

some have left to go north and they're there because the ukrainians are still fighting back. and we know they're fighting bravely and that the ukrainian armed forces are trying to get help to them but not able to do that and obviously we want to see all of the civilians that can leave safely. >> and what is the possibility of getting more civilians out of there realistically? >> i mean, i think we would love to see that happen. and i know the red cross is working on this. but it is -- unfortunately, it relies on the russians and their good will and them actually making good on their word to allow these people to get out. they've let some out but it is not clear that all of them are out. so again we call on the russians to do the right thing here. first of all stop bombarding mariupol, but short of that, to do the right thing from a humanitarian perspective and let these people out. >> what do we know about how many ukrainian troops we have that are still remaining in there to fight this, what their

stockpiles are, what do we know about what is left in there to hold up the fight? >> we don't know a whole lot, mika, to be honest with you. we think there is at least dozens, maybe a hundred or more, we're not sure exactly how many are there. you've seen they've posted some videos about their willingness to continue to fight. but also that they're obviously short on food and water and ammunition. and there is no way to get things into them right now. the ukrainians have for not for lack of trying, are not able to get them reinforced. so it is a desperate situation but they continue to fight on and they continue to force the russians to devote energy, efforts, fire power on mariupol and they have not been able to take that plant and they therefore, no matter what they say, the fact that their still bombing mariupol tells you that they don't believe they've actually taken mariupol. and obviously you looked at the map, it is a strategic location on the azov sea and allows them a better land bridge to crimea and as we've already seen, their

taking some of the forces that were devoted to mariupol and they want to focus now on the donbas. >> what is the level of communication if any, between the upper echelon of our milt and the pentagon and the russian military in moscow. >> right now, unfortunately, it is almost nonexistent. not for lack of trying. secretary austin has tried reach minister shoygu. and general over in the russian ministry of deefrs and they're not picking up the phone. i don't want to make it sound like we're trying to call them every day. but it is not nor lack of trying here at the pentagon. there is no coordination or communication. and right now where we are in this stage of the war that, kind of communication would be helpful. i'm not sure that we'd be able to make a major impact on russian decisions but think having an open line of communications is a healthy thing and unfortunately that doesn't exist right now. >> pentagon press secretary retired rear admiral john kirby,

thank you very much for coming on this morning. and the senate will vote next week on a bill to codify federal law, a woman's right to seek an abortion. even though the democrats don't have the votes. they're doing this. meanwhile, if the supreme court does overturn roe v. wade, states are jockeying to either protect abortion rights or pass even harsher bans. nbc news correspondent morgan chesky has latest from fort worth, texas, a state already home to one of the nation's most restrictive abortion laws. >> reporter: overnight chief jifs john roberts speaking out about that the draft opinion blasting the unprecedented leak as absolutely appall ug. according to "the washington post." and vowing it will not effect the court's work. but across the country, states and activists on both sides are getting ready. texas is at the epicenter of the abortion rights debate. it is one of 13 tates with so-called trigger laws that

would ban abortion with the exception for the health of the mother if it is overturned. beto o'rourke is seizing on the law abbott signed last year. >> this is not about life, this is about control and this is about power. this is about controlling the lives of the women of texas. and taking power away from them. >> reporter: abbott is focusing on the leaks draft opinion itself, issuing the court to issue it. >> i think the majority of the opinion in this case must be issued this week to show that united states supreme court will not be intimidated. >> louisiana also would outlaw abortion if roe is overturned and the legislature is going further. advancing a bill that would criminalize the procedure, meaning abortion providers and mothers could be charged with homicide. bradley pierce helped write the bill. >> we believe that abortion is cruel. and it is the taking of an innocent life and we should make that illegal and there shouldn't be some exception for mothers.

>> reporter: connecticut governor signing a sweeping bill into law offering expanded access to abortion for providers and parents including those from out of state. first lady jill biden in an interview airing this week on msnbc urging abortion rights advocates to step up efforts in their states. >> the election of the president matters because he's the one who puts the justices on the court. our state legislators are going to matter, too. so people have to get involved. >> nbc's morgan chesky reporting for us from texas. joining us now, democratic governor j.b. pritzker of illinois. thank you very much for joining us this morning. and i know you've signed several acts in your state to expand reproductive rights. first of all, what is your reaction to this draft opinion? >> it is appalling. and frankly women everywhere and their allies are terrified.

because their criminalizing in most states in the united states, they're criminalizing women's reproductive rights and women's health and i'm pleased to say here in illinois, anticipating something like this several years ago, we guaranteed a woman as right to choose. we passed the reproductive health act. we eliminated the old laws, the trigger laws on the books that would have reverted us back to being a pro-life state. so, in illinois, any way, we're an island in the midwest. but there are women all around us that are going to be swimming to get on to our island to exercise their rights and guarantee their freedoms. >> are there any other things that you can do within your realm of power to at least make sure that the right to choose exists in your state? and i know a lot of companies,

not a lot but some are stepping up and even offering their employees travel expenses being covered to go to states where they could get an abortion legally. what else can you do given that this law is going to be overturned? >> yeah, there is more that we could do. and here in illinois, just to be clear, we've already started that. we've been doing this for more than a year. that is creating regional centers who help out of state women seeking to exercise they're reproductive lives, helping with travel and lodging and so that they could exercise toz rights. so those are things that we're doing and obviously we're going to have to expand those because every state around us, iowa, missouri, kentucky, indiana, wisconsin, they all either already have restrictions on

abortion, or when the supreme court would seem to be overturned roe v. wade shortly, when they do that, those trigger laws in those states will take effect. >> and just from your understanding of the law and if this comes to pass and maybe tweaked in some ways, we don't know what the final opinion will look like, but this appears to be the direction it is going. what does this open the door to? >> well, you know, you're right to ask this question because this is far beyond just an attack on women's rights and women's re proive rights in particular. they're coming after marriage equality next. they're coming after birth control. they're coming after employment and housing protections for marginalized communities. honestly, i've never seen a more virulent attack over that has been occurring and culminating

with this first decision. but you could say more cases that republicans in other states are attempting to take to the supreme court so that they could reverse rights and that seem to have been established now for decades if not for half a century. >> governor, you're a democrat. and you obviously know that the democrats control the white house, the united states senate, the united states house of representatives. what is your feeling about the fact that senator schumer has scheduled a vote next week to take place in the senate. it will fail on codifying abortion rights. what is your sense as a democrat, the impact that this feeling of utter powerlessness that the democrats have in this country today, even controlling the white house and the senate and the house, what is the impact that has on the average democratic voters? >> well, let me remind you that the senate is 50/50. and even among the democrats, there is at least one senator

who is anti-choice. so there is not a pro-choice majority in the united states senate. and then similarly look at the states. there are a majority of states that have republican governors leading them. and so this is not a -- well democrats control everything. when it comes to the issue of abortion rights, democrats are not in control or at least pro-choice people are not in control. so you know what that means. we've got to elect more pro-choice democrats to the state houses and we've got to make sure state legislatures, governors and senators are elected who are pro-choice. and i, by the way, believe we're going to see a tsunami of support for pro-choice candidates all across the country. we're already seeing it. you saw protests just the other day on the first night that this news came out. think about what it will be like on the night they issue this

decisionch and then for months thereafter, people will be activated just like they were in the women's march on january 21st of 2017. >> democratic governor j.b. fritzker of illinois, thank you for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you, mika. >> thanks. and still ahead on "morning joe," molotov cocktails an barricades and bulletproof vests, every day ukrainians are making whatever they can to defend their homeland. we'll have new reporting from the front lines. plus the latest in the search for a murder suspect. and a corrections officer who casually walked out of an alabama prison with the murder suspect. and we're moments away from the april jobs report. we'll bring you the numbers as soon as they come out. the new data comes after the worst day on wall street since the start of the pandemic. and coming up in our fourth hour of "morning joe," steve kornacki is live in louisiana breaking down the field for tomorrow's

kentucky derby. and then on sunday, it is sunday today, willie, what do you have planned? >> i have an academy award winner for you. mr. sam rockwell, one of the great actors of his generation. won the academy award a few years ago and now starring in what could be knock on wood for him a tony-winning performance in american buffalo, the david mammet classic. a new revivalal with sam rockwell and laurence fishburn and darren chris. a great sis down on the set on the stage of american buffalo with sam rockwell coming up over on nbc this weekend on "sunday today." . and we'll be right back on "morning joe." and we'll be rig bhtack on "morning joe." hma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma.

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to ukraine but billion dollars in new weaponry. that is part of the ukrainian strategy to defeat russia. nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley got a closer look at how civilians are getting creative to prepare for battle. >> reporter: you could call it ukraine's new national passtime. >> and we have two choices to throw the bottle. we call this bowling style, like that. and baseball style, like that. ivan used to be a builder. now he teaches the art of the molotov cocktail. >> the u.s. just give $33 billion in aid, high-tech weapons. is this still useful in that kind of fight. >> yes. for normal people who didn't have the war, everybody could do this. everybody can throw this. women, men, old men, children. >> reporter: even me.

so the u.s. had pledging tons of high-tech weapons, but for ukrainian civilians, this is a big part of the arsenal. and ukrainian have used them here in zap oreeshia, billboards advertise the best places to toss them at russian tanks. yet even ivan admits that the molotov's medicine is mostly placebo. >> it is more than psychological thing. it is more than a weapon. >> they feel like they could hold the power in their hands. >> yes. >> litly. >> yes. >> they could do that at home. in a -- in the kitchen. can make this. and protect your family. >> reporter: but ukraine has shown tremendous success in the face of superior weapons and overwhelming force. showing their strength comes from solidarity and a sense of purpose. the civilians who come it to this hold warehouse aren't just

getting an education in espirit de corp, they will sew vests for body armor. >> we work three shifts, 24 hours a day. >> reporter: in war time every rosy could become a riveter. >> >> can you doing haute couture, like runway model stuff. >> i was a designer of accessories and clothes and shoes. >> this is for sniper rifles in and you design this and made this and everything? great. >> reporter: much of the civilian made material will go to civilian soldiers. the militias who still rank among the most effective fighting unities. here old cars are striped and smelted into body armor. and russian weapons are used to test them. >> have you ever been shot while wearing one ever those plates? >> no. but i know guys who have. and this stuff that they're

making here, it really saved their lives. >> reporter: now the whole world is rallying around ukraine, the country is brimming with the finest new weapons but they're mass produced, store bought. >> you are getting a lot of high-tech equipment from america but do you feel like the stuff you're building here is just as good? >> the war is pushing our technology to develop faster. as the war continues, we're catching up. >> reporter: and for these ukrainian volunteers, even with all of the help, they still prefer it home made. >> that was nbc's matt bradley reporting from near the front lines in ukraine. coming up, this morning the manhunt for an escaped convict is expanding. along with the search for a corrections officer who likely helped set him free. what officials are saying about the investigation next on "morning joe."

. welcome back and now it has been over a week since an alabama convict escaped from jail, apparently with the help of a corrections officer who had been visiting him behind bars. nbc's sam brock has the latest. >> a full week into a frantic manhunt and casey white and vicki white are still nowhere to be found. >> you don't know what region of the country they might be in. >> we have no idea. >> reporter: the u.s. marshal releasing a batch of new photos featuring the towering 6'9" with distinct tattoos depicting the logo of a white supremacist gang. and showing what she would like with darker hair. it is likely both have altered their appearance. they branched and task forces

across country aiding the search. though they can't specify the number of resources, the agency does confirm outreach to border countries saying everything is on the table to find the pair's location. >> we have been in contact with cvp, board patrol, homeland security, and we really rely on those relationships to kind of communicate some of that intelligence. >> reporter: vicki and casey white who are not related walked out of the lauderdale county jail last friday with the highly regarded deputy taking the capital murder suspect by herself breaking protocol. >> and now he has a possible murder of his then girlfriend christy shelton. her death in 2008 was previously ruled a suicide. >> so casey white was with my mom the night that she committed suicide. nothing was really ever investigated. >> shelton's daughter who asked

us not to use her name or show her identity, flagging the case to authorizes. >> we're still advocating my mom's story and letting all that get heard because i don't feel like she even had a fighting chance in getting justice for what happened. >> reporter: case y has now finished without a trace with his former jailer. authorities believe the pair is likely armed an considered them desperate and dangerous. >> that was nbc's sam brock reporting. an coming up, a look at morning papers including a staggering new measure on the gun violence gripping the nation. that is next on "morning joe." and, we're back! it's time to see which chew provides the longest-lasting flea and tick protection.

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time now for a look at morning papers n. pennsylvania the standard reports u.s. regulators are limiting who could receive johnson and johnson covid vaccine due to the ongoing risk of rare but serious blood clots. fda said the shot should only be given to those who cannot receive a different vaccine or specifically requested it. the tampa bay times reports florida has reached a $683 million settlement with walgreens. lawyers argued the pharmacy chain has contributed to the opioid epidemic but dispensing enormous quantities of the painkillers. the settlement calls for $620 million to fund community treatment and education programs. walgreens denies any wrongdoing.

in connecticut, the middletown press reports that the state has received a surge of applications for retail cannabis operations. data from the state's department of consumer protection shows that over 15,000 applications have been submitted. a dramatic jump from several thousand applications just last week. clearly there is an interest, willie? >> absolutely. let's look at the citizen times in north carolina. reporting the new data from johns hopkins that the number of people in the united states who died from gun violence reached a record high in 2020. an average of 124 people across the country died each day, that is a 15% jump from 2019. the star gazette reports animal rights groups in new york are challenging the $230 million the horse racing industry receives every year. the groups argue states should direct the subsidies toward

education, the challenge come as mid horse deaths and waning racing. in maine, the morning sentinel reports that health officials have issued a warning against consuming freshwater fish from seven bodies of water in maine. officials say they found high levels of pfa, known as forever chemicals in fish that exceed the cdc recommended amount for consumption, mika. >> coming up, what does this scene have to do with the supreme court? >> is everyone okay? >> what happened? >> did anyone see? >> someone drove a hot dog shaped car through the window. >> driver is gone. somebody call the cops. >> we need to find that driver. >> they could have killed someone. >> whose car is this. >> yeah whoever did it, just confess, we promise we won't be

mad. >> what? >> conservatives say they are on the hunt for whom ever leaked that draft opinion on roe v. wade. but perhaps they don't have to look too far. new york magazine jonathan chait joins us next on "morning joe." my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured.

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49 past the hour. we're back with breaking news economic news. april jobs report is out and it is showing the u.s. added 428,000 jobs last month. the unemployment rate remained unchanged at 3.6%. let's bring in cnbc dominic chu with a look behind the numbers. what does this tell us? >> so generally speaking what we have here is a jobs report that

is overall fairly positive. you mentioned the headline number, pretty big beat. the unemployment rate was slightly worse than expected. economists were looking for it to tick lower down to 3.5%. but the average hourly earning is going to be where a lot of focus is going to be given the big inflation narrative that we've been talking about for months. are rising prices not just for goods for services going to be hurt or helped by people making more money? average hourly earning came in slightly lower than expected. .3% higher and month over month that means it is 5.5% higher on a year-over-year basis roughly in line with expectations so people are getting paid more. other issue is the labor force participation rate. are the higher wages causing more people to come off the side lines and get back to work. for right now it appears as though it is a little less certain here.

62.2% is the labor force participation rate. reason that is, it is lower than the previous month. as to those unemployed, the underemployment rate, that ticked slightly higher from 6.9% to 7%. as for the sectors and industries that are leading the job gains right now, it continues to be leisure and hospitality gaining 78,000 jobs. manufacturing added 55,000 and transportation and warehousing services added just around 52,000. by the way, construction was flat in terms of jobs growth. so on balance, mika, i'm not sure how this report overall will change any kind of narrative when it comes to either the federal reserve in its campaign to raise interest rates to fight inflation or the biden administration in its plans for the economy going forward. this is really going to be very

interesting, mika, about whether or not this jobs report does anything to change the calculus for changing interest rate by the fed down the line. >> that is where i was going next. so the fed raises rates by half a point and trying to stem some of this inflation hitting 40-year highs. unemployment is remaining where it is. it is a low rate. more jobs that we could fill in this country and the cost of groceries and gas are going through the roof. what is the impact of that half point hike and perhaps more to come in a couple of months. >> there is no doubt, if the fed is going too raise interest rates, you will see costs of borrowing go up. you'll see cost of lending go up. that means if you're carrying balances on anything from a home mortgage to an auto loan or even a credit card bill, those things will start to get more expensive. the curious about this is if the interest rate picture continues to go higher. the u.s. government's cost of

servicing its own debt will continue to go higher as well. all of those things are weighing on the federal reserve and the treasure department as well. the curious issue that is being raised right now by a lot of folks on wall street is whether or not that inflation picture or the jobs picture can be altered in a way that would change the fed's course. here is what i would say. they have two important legal mandates. price stability, which you could argue is not happening right now, because as you point out, willie, have inflation at 40-year highs. the other mandate is full employment. you are right now closer to that full employment picture so the fed may feel as that has runway to continue on interest rate hikes to stem the inflation or price stability side of things but, yes, americans from main street to wall street to k street will all be seeing higher costs of carrying balances going forward. that is not going to change unless the inflation picture does.

>> so, dom, on that score itself, the inflation picture, with regard to jay powell, what you could hear on wall street about jay powell from people who do business every day on wall street in terms of the soft ip flation for months prior to it exploding over the past few months. what do you hear? >> here is what i hear. what i hear right now. what i hear right now is yes, in many ways the fed got caught behind the curve a little bit. the idea that the fed had talked about the transitory nature of inflation for months. and for the most part, many on wall street really believed it. a lot of experts not just economists but those people who are investors and traders out there believed that narrative to be true. the issue then happened with a series of events not the least of which was the war in ukraine, all of the other commodity cost inflation issues that go along with that as well as fuel price, fuel price issues, all of those things then put the fed in a very difficult spot.

because it was about credibility at that point and right now the investors i've talked to say that jay powell is the right guy for the job. he's handling the best way that he can. but the credibility is at issue here which is probably why from an interest rate standpoint that the fed has to make sure that it gets this thing under control. because if it is legal mandate is price stability and it can't do that. then the fed share is going to be very, very much hot seat like he is already right now. >> cnbc's dominic chu. we'll see you in about half an hour to the opening bell. and now back to the supreme court and that draft opinion that was leaked. and a netflix clip we showed you a few minutes ago in the tease. >> is everyone okay? >> what happened? >> did anyone see? >> someone drove a hot dog shaped car through the window. >> driver is gone. >> somebody call the cops.

we need to find that driver. >> they could have killed someone. >> whose car is this. >> yeah, come on, whoever did this just confess, we promise we won't be mad. >> what? >> so what does that have to do with the supreme court? conservatives say their hunting for whoever leaked the draft opinion that would overturn roe v. wade. but our next guest said they might not have to look that far. see, there is the hot dog guy. in a knew piece for new york magazine, jonathan chait now notes how, quote, several days before politico received the draft of samuel alito's ruling, the wall street journal published an editorial cage illy describing the court's internal deliberations and that the editorial got quite specific by the internal break down of the vote. jonathan asked, if a bank employee stole a small amount of money from the safe and a few

days later there was a huge robbery from the same safe, who would be your first suspect? and jonathan chait joins us now. good to have you on with us. so, what are you deducing from what the "wall street journal" put in their editorial that connects us to the big question of who leaks the draft opinion and why does it matter? >> yeah, i want to be clear that i have no idea who leaked this and it definitely could have come from the left. but i wrote this because so much of the commentary from the right laz simply assumed that the leaks that come from the left and ignored the fact that we have a smaller leak three days before from the "wall street journal" that had the same effect they're de crying, which is to put public pressure on the justices to rule in a certain way. that is the reason why they say this leak is so dangerous, because it subjects the justices to this kind of lobbying and that is exactly why the "wall street journal" was leaked this

early version. and they really had the inside scoop on the breakdown inside of the court. >> this is a really big mess of infraction on the court to enact like this, it is being investigated by the marshal, judge roberts saying he's looking to the person who did this. how do we know it is a person and one person only and how do we know it is someone directly related to the court or perhaps more people? i just think there is a lot of different questions that people are making assumptions from the get-go that there is just one leaker. >> no, you're absolutely right, we don't know if it is one leaker or who did it and which side did it. i think the strange political dynamic is that republicans didn't want to talk about the substance of roe being overturned so the leak became the message. and mitch mcconnell was all but explicit, we want to talk about the leak and we don't want to talk about abortion rights and

roe. so that led to the situation where conservatives were foaming at the mouth about the leak and assuming it was the left that was doing it and calling for them to be disbarred or charged or put to death or whatever. so i think the rhetoric just got out of hand without any real, you know, a look at who might have done the leak in the first place. >> john, we were talking about this earlier. fascinating to watch the approach. this has been the holy grail for conservatives and for many republicans and now that it is here in front of them, they don't want to talk about the substance or the ruling, they want to talk about the leak. what do read into that? >> it's fascinating they've been pursuing this goal for 50 years. but as everyone said, it the dog that caught the car they don't want to discuss it. i think in a way the conservatives have been protected from the demands of

their most right-wing faction by roe v. wade. right, they didn't have to put up a vote measures that would criminalize abortion, that would subject women and doctors to the legal prosecution that would ban abortion in the first few weeks of a procedure so now all of a sudden the things -- that ruling is insolated from are right front and square of the political debate and they're not ready to enter that world yet. >> jonathan, a assume like you, massive amounts of pieces for the hunt for the leaker and yet among all of the things that i've read including in your fine piece in new york magazine, i have not read a certain date when this draft opinion may have been written. it could have been written a couple of months ago. it could have already been rewritten. have you read anything that would give a date certain around an approximate date certain of when it was written? >> no and the speculation i've seen is that this was an early draf