that is our show. thank you so much for watching the cross connection. i will be back tomorrow next saturday at 10 am. they with us because alex witt has the latest. >> hello my friend. i like all the wonderful and adorable sentiments you were sharing about karine. she is so well deserved. it is going to be great dealing with her. now that jen psaki wasn't fabulous. >> jen is great to. they are both office awesome. >> a great want two out of the office. i'm glad that you talked about that in your earlier our. >> happy mother's day, alex. >> thank you. my two kids better send me cards. that's all i gotta say. thanks my dear. see you next week. >> bye. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> a very good day from oil to all of you from msnbc in new

york. we begin with breaking news and a live look at the supreme court. this is where protests are expected in support of abortion rights. rallies are planned for across the country after a leak of a draft opinion indicating a landmark decision in roe v. wade, protecting the federal right to abortion, could be overturned. today, we are getting a sense of how americans feel about that potential decision in a political poll. 50% of respondents said that roe v. wade should not be overturned. in a yahoo gave poll said 51% said roe v. wade should stay. in a cnn poll 66% of those servants said they do not want them to overturn roe v. wade. conservative justice clarence is speaking out against it in atlanta. he said, quote, we cannot be an institution that are gonna be bullied into giving the outcomes you want. the fighting for abortion

rights is headed for a big day on capitol hill next week. the senate is expected to vote wednesday to codify abortions nationwide. tammy baldwin joined msnbc earlier to discuss these efforts. >> i do believe that the american people need to know where their senator stands and the senators stand on this issue. we need to take this information and bring that to the polls with them this fall. >> while ukraine is bracing for a bloody weekend ahead of russia's victory day commemoration on monday. fire rages on the steel plant in mariupol where ukrainian fighters have been making a last stand against russian forces. official in ukraine say that missiles hit two locations in the northern sumy region and that cruise missiles were fired at the odessa region. first lady, jill biden, is

visiting the ukrainian neighbor of slovakia. she will be spending her mother's day at the slovakia's border with ukrainian refugees. she is going to meet up with them. earlier in the day, the first lady visited a public school in romania's capital that is hosting ukrainian refugee students. reporting for us right now, we have msnbc julia outside the supreme court in washington and allie raffa covering the president in delaware. welcome to you both. we will start at the supreme court of the saturday where the protesters have returned every single day since monday's leak of the bombshell draft opinion to overturn roe v. wade. julia, i know a lot of protests are expected today. what is the expected there other than the rain that is dampening the spirits or are people still turning out? >> alex, i have to tell you, there are a lot of people here despite the weather and the rain from all across the country. we have been talking to them all morning. they are here. mothers, daughters, men, they

are all here to support the women's right to choose and to support reproductive rights as the supreme court, according to the draft, is poised to overturn roe v. wade. we have been talking to a lot of people, as i mentioned. i want to introduce you to renee. as you can see, by her shirt, she had on abortion. she works for we testify. it is an organization that protects or for reproductive rights across the country. i want to ask you. why is it for you to be open and vocal that you had an abortion. >> i think it is critical for us to talk about our abortion stories. a lot of people do not realize that a lot of people have loved someone who has an abortion. there's so much shame and stigma and talking about pregnancy, is sex, and health care in our country. when we share about abortion stories we open that conversation and makes you realize that abortion is part of our reproductive of freedoms that create families and is

critical to this nation. >> rene, we talked about this earlier, she is from chicago originally. obviously, illinois, the blue state that is going to keep protective measures in place if roe is overturned. we are talking earlier about how women are going to be traveling hours to get an abortion. they could overwhelm clinics in illinois. can you talk about how this is going to have an impact and stress the system? >> people are already having to travel. that is with roe in place. with the trigger bans and the criminalization of abortion across the south and parts of the midwest, they will have states that are going to see an influx of people who need abortions. what is worrisome is that those clinics are going to have longer wait times, people will not get care, and then there will be people who, no matter how much money it cost, they will not be able to travel like undocumented people and incarcerated people.

everyone he said access to abortion, anytime, for any reason, in their communities. >> thank you for sharing that piece and story. these people have been located at the barricades that put up earlier today. they were put up after the insurrection happened. we have not seen a police presence here but we still see people, women, children, lining up despite the rain, alex. >> that capital fence is needed around the supreme court to given the demonstrations. thank you, julia, for that. the senate will hold a vote next week to codify roe v. wade. the likelihood of it getting the 60 votes needed to pass is slim to none. joining me now is allie raffa in delaware with the president this weekend. ali, has anything changed to suggest that the democrats will be able to pass this? >> alex, the short and honest answer to your question is no. we saw democrats rally in the aftermath of the leaking of

this supreme court draft but no amount of unity can change the hard facts and the math. the democrats hold the majority in both the house and the senate. they lack the votes to get this passed or the filibuster to get past. despite this, they know the vote on wednesday will be one of the most important that the democratic party overtakes. let's hear nancy pelosi yesterday. >> republicans would like us to talk about the leak. we are talking about your life. the life of women in our country and how we have a calibration of all of this in a roe v. wade and how we must have it be in strained as the law of the land. they will make charges about it. we need to say very clear, very focused, about what it is and what it means in peoples lives. >> alex, you will remember, this is not the first time that

they tried this. the women's health protection act passed overwhelmingly in the house last year about when it got to the senate, joe manchin sided with republicans. the bill went nowhere. there is also a slim down version vice susan collins. what is the bill that they plan to vote on on wednesday going to look? like we heard some of these senators on the drafting team that is drafting the new version of this bill say that there will be minor modifications. we know the two gop senators have said that they have issue with some warning in that draft that says medical providers who refused to provide women's with abortions to religious beliefs could face penalties and consequences. chuck schumer said on thursday that that specific wording will not be in the new bill. regardless of the outcome, alex, the vote is symbolic. it is going to keep the issue

at the top of minds of voters leading into november. schumer said, on thursday, at the press release you are showing video, of that this is meant to put all senators across the political spectrum on record of where they stand on abortion and abortion rights leading into the midterm election, alex. >> we got that. ali raphael, thank you for that. for more on the potential and to abortion rights in the united states, let's bring in simone sanders. her new shows, simone, gabe used tonight at 4 pm on msnbc. i dubbed today simone saturday all day long for you! we are so happy to have you and super great on your first interview with lady jill biden. you asked her about a prevailing issue right now. what did she tell you about her reaction to the lead of the civil supreme court that will overturn roe v. wade. >> thank you, alex. doctor biden talked about how she was shocked and how her and

the president were alerted by the draft decision that she could not believe it. i think it is important to know that joe biden has lived in a world without the protection of roe v. wade and with the protection of roe v. wade. essentially, she made the case to folks that this is going to come down to elections at the state level and people have to vote. as a mother and as a grandmother, what would you say to the women right now? particularly, young women who are upset about the possible erosion of the ability to make decisions about their own body? >> well, i guess the first thing i would say is that how shocking it was. when we heard the news, joe and i got the call that it had been leaked. the president matters. the election of the president matters, because he's the one who puts the justices on the court, and if this goes to a state level, our state

legislatures are going to matter, too. so, people have to get involved. >> so, doctor biden goes on in that interview to talk about her trip to ukraine. she also talks about her legacy as first lady. i also get a little rapid fire in there, alex, asking her about everything from -- to her cats, willow, also to her reality tv habits. so, i encourage people to turn into they get 4 pm, we've got a wide ranging interview with dr. biden and other guests as well. >> i'm sure it's going to be a blockbuster our. very excited for that, and i want to hear the back and forth, the rapid fire between the two if you. that will be fun. so, simone, let's talk about this setting. we know it's tip effects vote wednesday to enshrine into federal law, but it's all going to be blocked by republicans. so, i know allie raffa was reporting on this, but in your, mind what are democrats looking to prove by forcing a vote on the measure? it's about getting senators on

record and therefore, involving their constituents, hey, here's where we stand? >> i think it's a little bit about getting folks on the record, but if you note, this is largely coming directly from the senate, directly from shut senator schumer, you have not telling the white house, at, least i have not heard anyone i've spoken to or my colleagues at nbc news about the white house talking about this vote. which, i've heard from the white house, is a warning that this is essentially an opening two other rights being taken away and question. the rights to privacy. i've read an article the other day about governor of texas, governor abbott, talking about the need to challenge the mandate to educate children across the country. so i think that will senate democrats think this is important for their purposes and getting folks on the record, i think the broader democratic apparatus is focusing on bringing the alarm on this and trying to get people to key in on this november. >> if you look at the cascading

impact, per se, of it roe, economists will say it will lead to worse economic outcomes for women, meaning poor states could get poorer, women will face prosecution, and it's going to make criminals of the health care providers who perform abortions. some are warning that some rights to marriage equality, contraception, and more could also be at risk. so, considering all of this, how do you think democrats need to re-shift their messaging around ambush in politics? big picture, ahead of the midterms? >> i think it's really important to underscore that support for roe v. wade, even for folks who don't necessarily, personally agree with, and wouldn't themselves consider getting and abortion, consistently, polls over 60%. as, in every poll, there's new research out right now, i do think the cruelty is the point there. the criminalization of not just doctors but women who seek the health care that they need in the form of an abortion, people

who make eight those women in seeking the health care that they need it. the criminalization of those people is what i think no one, whether you are a democrat, republican, independent, anyone who says hey, i don't like these labels, i don't think people think women should be thrown in jail for the getting an abortion. that sounds extreme. but frankly, in many places across this country, if, but not even if, it's just a when, roe v. wade is overturned, that is exactly the kind of lost that are on the books. that will and can be enforced. and i think that's the kind of message, if you will, that democrats should take going into the midterms as well. >> next question. what do you think is going to drive more voters to the polls? if it abortion rates? do you think it's concerns over inflation, the rising cost of living? >> you know, i think it's going to be a mixture of a number of things. i will note that there is the general election in ohio, the primary, and turnout was low. so, i think that we are not,

prior to this past week, i didn't think we were going to see as high of a turnout as folks were looking for from 2018 to 2022. i do think not just inflation, but you also have a war raging in ukraine, right? it president biden has reasserted americas itself on the world stage, if you compare that to his predecessor, donald trump. so i think there are a number of things that are going to cause people to wants to make attention and go to the polls. i just really think that folks, democrats have to do a better job of not just telling people to vote in november, there are primaries that are happening. turnout is low in those primaries. i don't know what's going to look like in a general election, come november 2022. >> very good point. okay, symone sanders on symone saturday, well done. thanks for getting us early there and we're looking forward to everything. >> thank you. i look forward to do. >> all right, all. good and for all of you, you

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this weekend could be critical for ukraine and its fight against russia. russia is holding a full dress rehearsal in moscow's red square earlier today for monday's victory day parade. ukraine is bracing for brutal assault ahead of the commemorations. in mariupol, more civilians have been evacuated as heavy fighting rages on in the azovstal steel plant. that is where the last defenders have been holding up for weeks. president biden has signed off on another hundred 50 million dollar in military aid for the

ukraine. the u.s. has exhausted the approved in march and has called on lawmakers to vote for more. he will meet with president zelenskyy tomorrow along with other u.s. allies. we are joined by gray in ukraine. every week that passes leaves us amazed that they are still funding fending off the russians. tell us more about mariupol and that steel plant today. >> and i can tell you, alex, we have stunning music coming in. it is breaking news from the deputy prime minister of ukraine. i will read it to make sure that it is right. it came in the last few seconds. she said that the presidents order has been carried out. all women, children, an elderly have been evacuated from azovstal. this part of the mariupol a humanitarian operation has been can pleaded. it sounds like that, today, they have been able to rescued

all of the women, children, and elderly that were pinned down inside of that steel plant. that is something they were walking working on for sometime. the humanitarian corridor has been very fragile and falling apart at times because of the intense fighting. the report out today in the last few seconds it's from the deputy prime minister says that all of the civilians are gone from that facility. you can read that to mean that the men and soldiers remain there and continue to fight. it is an area that they will fight in until the bitter end to retain as far as ukraine is concerned. it has intensified and is moving into the monday victory day celebration by russia. we know that there are more frequent bombings going on in the donbas region and it hits odessa today as well. there is no reports of serious injuries or death with those missile attacks. we do know that the ukrainians

are making some progress by pushing russian artillery units back into kharkiv. it pushes them back of fire enough that they cannot reach the city as far as firing their weapons. this is good no news on the ukraine side. as the fighting intensifies, we continue to see refugees pouring into the western part of the country, where we are right now. this is lviv. we talked with the mayor and this is what he had to say about the current situation. >> we placed containers in different locations of the city. first of all so people can be fully integrated and to have the best location in this city. they need to have the best accessibility to the public transport, to hospitals, to schools, to other facilities.

>> my apologies. that is the chief architect in lviv talking about modular housing that they put up to accommodate a lot of the people who have been transferred here because they lost their homes and lost everything to the east. you can hear the mascara behind me. this is in the square. there are people out on a saturday evening in lviv. i can tell you that president zelenskyy has warned people across the country not to feel a sense of normalcy going into this time on monday. he is urging people to pay attention not only to the air raid science runs which we heard today, but also to other news coming in from across the country. >> i gotta say, the refugee crisis with a 5 million strong in ukraine is a blessing to have all those women, children, elderly, having been evacuated. literally, you got this a couple of minutes ago. that is something that we have been following. we started last weekend and

watched a trickle. there were 8200 depending on your sourcing that were coming out. it was precarious at best. we are grateful to get this news that at least the women, children, elderly have made it safely out of that plan. now they joined the ranks of the refugees. jay gray, thank you for that comprehensive report from lviv. we will see you again. we are going to general mcafee. what does that tell you that they got all those people out of the planned. of course, men and fighters remain holding things out. >> it is a surprisingly good news. this incredible defensive mariupol by the ukrainians takes a lot of combat power for the russians. they delayed the timetable. it reminds me defensive baton in world war ii. now, the final days are coming. it is fortunate that the civilian population that has been evacuated, many,

undoubtedly, would have been killed by the russians, and the thousands of fighters that remain will, apparently, you go down fighting to the death. >> general, i'm curious your reaction based on how long we have worked together. i know what you are going to say here. because doing nbc news reporting on u.s. intelligence helping ukraine, all that they have been providing to them and that they have been able to sink the largest warship which sank after catching fire from missiles. there are generals that have been killed. i believe it has been a dozen. the u.s. put out a statement saying that it did not know in advance that ukraine was going to target the ship and was not involved in the decision to strike. tell me your thoughts about that information being released publicly. is there any benefit to that?

is there an upside to that? i know you are protective of information getting out there for good reason. >> i echo at best. putting it out publicly in the sense that it came from the u.s. a television service or from congress, who knows, tends to rub putin's face in the matter. they were an active participant in the war. this is provided the millimeter artillery and the ship missiles. we provide lethal aid. the way that washington works and the inter agency process, there are debates among lawyers and the department of justice, state, you name it. a lot of this is a weasel worded attempts to say we are not belligerent. we are providing background. we have a massive intelligence capability. we have satellite systems.

and as an intercept that we find transmitters. we provide ukrainians with a low case and 20 transmitters. that is a command post. we would like to elect to hit it. the last time we did that we killed over 200 russians. we provided information on moskva, which the ukrainians took action to sink. i do not make a lot of it. it was a mistake. normally this is a south political on the executive branch or on the intelligence agency. i'm proud in the agency's effort and trying to get credit for it. it is harmful. they should not be doing this. >> so, how concerned are you that russia uses this information to justify further tactics and further reactions of u.s. involvement to escalate the score. how will the u.s. explain? give me a quick look at what

you expect this weekend ahead of the celebrations on monday. you know putin wants to get something that he can celebrate publicly. >> putin is in a mess. his army is largely incompetent. they are cruel, rapacious, committing war crimes. they're invading a civilian population and has destroyed a good bit of sovereign nation. he is driving the population into anti eternal slider. there are tense economic sanctions and he has become a pariah of state. by the way, he will never win the war. he is never going to occupy all of ukraine. he just does not have the tools to do it. he is calling up conch trips now, and may 9th he will do something to attract internal attention to his victory day on the 9th of may.

i would advise a russian army of not having a parade in mariupol. you will be a target. >> amen to that. four star general and my good friend mccaffrey. thank you for showing us your allegiance. we appreciate it. new reactions to the comments of justice clarence on the roll view lead. what to make of this headline? we are classifying abortion as a homicide advance by louisiana lawmakers. this is up next. lawmakers. this is up next.

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all week long, with demonstrators rejecting the courts possible actions. and the subject came up about an hour ago, as vice president kamala harris gave the commencement address at tennessee state university. >> in the united states, we are once again forced to defend fundamental principles that we hoped were long settles. principles like the freedom to vote. the rights of women to make decisions about their own bodies. >> this comes after new reaction from supreme court justice clarence thomas, speaking at a digital conference in atlanta yesterday, the conservative justice who sided with the majority in that lead draft opinion, briefly addressed the political outcry agitation. he says, it bodes ill for a free society. we are becoming addicting to wanting particular outcomes, not letting with our country don't like. we can't be an institution that could be bowling you into the

outcomes you want. the offense earlier this week are some thumb of. that let's bring in harry lippman, former u.s. attorney and host of the talking feds podcast. welcome to you. what is your reaction to these comments by justice thomas? >> alex, i mean, the irony is so thick you wonder if it's maybe a clarence thomas impersonator. among other things, this is a guy who spence's lifetime trying to take a battering ram to all the supreme court major precedence. he's now saying people don't respect the law enough. that's even leaving aside all the controversies in gendered as is. it's just, you know, remarkable. he really is leading with his chin, let me put it that way. >> let me say, dripping with irony there. i'll take a look with this draft opinion, justice samuel alito writes in, row was agreed to sleet wrong from the start. the constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly

protected by any constitutional provision. so, keeping in mind, let's look at the way this is written. there were no women there to ratify the constitution. there were no female legislators, no judges at the time. women, for the most part, were unable to vote. so, what do you make of the reasoning that alito laid out in this draft opinion? >> it's really impoverished. look, i'll give you an analogy. there were also no african americans to vote. we now know that of course, you have a right to marry someone of a different race. if you used ali those analysis, though, you never would. it's just not the analysis they use for everything else. he's singling out abortion in a way that just doesn't hold up with the jurisprudence of the entire court accepts. i think he's going to be really efficient rated in the defense. of course, the five might still, you have to imagine, they were very thoughtful about taking the step in the first place, so that doesn't mean they'll be

dislodged. that's the power of five. >> and following the leak of the draft opinion, harry, president biden said that every other decision relating to the notion of privacy is now thrown into question, although alito does right it will not undermine many decisions really rooted in privacy protections. it's the reason to be concerned that gay marriage, contraception, other rights like that could be in jeopardy if roe v. wade falls? >> heck yeah. the reason he says it's assistance is just because he says it isn't, but when courts say things, they give reasons and principles, and these reasons and principles that they're using to strike down roe would strike down a lot of things, other things the president is mentioning and more. so, it's only by their grace whether they decide to do it or not. >> in terms of striking down, to your point, 13 states have these so-called trigger laws, and that says a portion will be almost immediately outlawed within their borders, if the court overturns row. lawmakers and luis again, as

you, know they are saying the trigger law, in fact, isn't even enough. the state legislator, advanced a proposal there this week that classifies abortion as a homicide, defining personhood at the moment of fertilization. support for this bill, they're saying it shouldn't hinge on the supreme court's decision. but what does this bill signal to you? do you think this could survive a court challenge? >> look, i think it could, and there are other things like it's coming. if alito's opinion is adopted, alex, the question the courts supposed to ask is, is there a rational basis for thinking that life begins at conception? now, that is a really question that is precarious to serve up the legislators, but is there a rational basis? yeah, i guess there's a rational basis, same thing with any other kind of economic legislation, and it could and it's maybe should survive,

which goes to show that the analysis of saying there's no right is deeply, deeply flawed. >> i just want to remind folks watching here, as we take a look at how trump's appointed judges address the question of roe v. wade being settled law in their confirmation hearings, there are, free here's ago. >> so, a good judge will consider as president of the united states supreme court, worthy as treatment of precedent like any other. >> one of the important things to keep in mind about roe v. wade is that it has been reaffirmed many times over the past 45 years. >> row is not a super president because it calls for is overruling have never ceased. that doesn't mean that roe should be overruled. >> gorsuch, kavanaugh, and barrett there. are you surprised by what happens? >> that's right. look, there's a little mini what they're doing, they can point to a half inch of room they left themselves. if the country, overall, and

senator collins, for example, take it as a shoehorned that they weren't going to take this step, it's did. so yeah. this is quite a betrayal. >> okay, harry lippman, we'll see you again. coming up next, a major clue surfaces in the man hunt for that escaped inmate and corrections officer. it's a breakthrough discovery. ce it's a breakthrough discovery. now i'm down with rybelsus®. mom's a1c is down with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪) in a clinical study, once-daily rybelsus® significantly lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't take rybelsus® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop rybelsus® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction.

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we're following for you right now. rescue crews are searching for survivors after an explosion at a hotel in havana, cuba. it killed 26 people and injured 70 others. they blamed a gas leak that destroyed the historic hotel. police in tennessee have released pictures of this 2007 ford s edge suv. it was used in the escape of an alabama and made. it was found abandoned on the side of the road south of nashville. they've been searching for the inmate, a casey right, and the corrections officer that helped him escape over a week ago. more than 100 children have gotten sick from a mysterious hepatitis outbreak. it killed five kids and required others to have a liver transplant. the cdc says that the cases span 25 states and all of the children have ended up in the hospital. more than half of them had a previous virus infection. the cdc has not confirmed a link between the two illnesses. democrats are counting on the

abortion issue to boost voter turnout for the midterms. will it put the democrats in an advantage? democrats in a advantage? ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy.

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elections as the issue of abortion takes a center stage. the supreme court a draft opinions that would overturn roe v. wade that caused a seismic shift in where was already expecting to be a contentious cycle. democrats are hoping the decision will energize voters as new polling from research shows that the majority of americans said that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. joining me now is adrian, democratic strategist and former aide to the biden harris campaign and kirk bardella, advice to the dnc and dccc. good to see you both. les first, adrian. how much of an impact using this will have on the upcoming midterms and driving people to the polls?

>> alex, it will have a significant impact. you just showed the polling there. they have shown other polls that upwards of eight out of ten americans uphold roe v. wade. the fact that republicans want to have this battle right now going into the midterms, in a cycle that traditionally favors the party that is not in favor, is beyond me. you will recall, in 2018, they drove it democrats because they were disgusted by the overreach of republicans and donald trump. they are going to come out again. they will support the party that wants to uphold roe v. wade and is doing everything within its power to elect the democrats up and down the ballot where the government oriole elections will matter. it is going to come down to state control and who can make sure that there is still reproductive health care access for women in those states. it will have a dramatic impact. i think it is unfortunate that we have to face this reality

that we are facing. i do think it is going to have a significant impact on the midterm elections. >> i want to get your take on that, kurt, but also the fact that some gop candidates and elected republicans, who spent a portion of their careers champion knowing this move, that they only talk about the action around the leak itself not the contents of the draft. what does that tell you? >> it tells me that what we are talking about right now is that it is right. they realize the political peril they put themselves into going into the midterms. they have done something that is incited, excited, and mobilized the democratic party at base. for months we have seen a stories and polls about how republicans have a big advantage into the midterms and have an enthusiasm gap, all the polls say it's against democrats and histories against democrats. now they have ignited the

single largest block of voters in a democratic party on an issue that is 2 to 1 against them. a new poll that came out by yahoo says that democrats have overtaken the congressional ballots lead in this race. when given the choice between a pro-choice democrat and a pro-life republican it goes to 13 points on the side of the democrat. this is just a week into this, alex. it will get worse for republicans who are still going out there and saying that now they want to go further and want to restrict women's rights to contraception. the urge to the right that republicans are embracing right now are going to be one of the single biggest reason that they make history in november but they will be on the wrong side of it by losing in a huge blow. talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. >> adrian, there are also the democrats in congress who are working on the legislation. they want to codify row. as our capitol hill team is reporting, it is unlikely to have anywhere close to enough

votes to pass. democrats are using this as a rallying cry, get out in vote in november. there are democrats who are saying, we did vote in 2020. the party is controlling congress and white house for a year and a half and yet a, passing legislation like this, is an overwhelming hurdle. do you understand the frustration? >> absolutely i understand the frustration! we are a big tent a party. unfortunately, when you are in a big tent party you do not always agree on everything. it is frustrating. i understand it. at the same time, alex, it is very important that congress takes the scope of next week. we need to get members on the record. we need to get members on the record, especially republicans, in terms of where they support on whether they want to codify roe v. wade. it is extremely important. alex, i hate to be a pessimist here but we are starting to run out of options as democrats. there is a chance that the supreme court does not overturn roe v. wade. we are certainly not going to

operate under that theory. what we can do now, alex, is go down to the states and make sure that gretchen gets reelected in a michigan. we want to make sure that we will win the governor's a race in wisconsin, when it in georgia with stacey abrams. there are are a lot of races that matter right now, alex. it is not just congressional races but it is statewide races. the secretaries of state and the estates are going to be the ones on the frontline defending women's rights to choose in those states. that is where the control and the power really centers right now. >> can i ask you a question, kurt? why don't democrats legislate as liz relentlessly as republicans to? do you think running on what is at stake instead of what is accomplished is effective? >> i think there is no question, alex, that democrats have a record of two with

infrastructure and what they've done with covid relief or what they have done with the economy. there are things that are historic in terms of the scope, scale, and size, of what democrats have passed. we have to get out there and talk about it. we need to make a real for the american people. the reason why the supreme court situation is so important and such a game-changer is that it is something that strikes to the very heart of individual freedom. it is a more tangible way than about all the other things that we talked about day in and day out. we talk about this election and it is about saving democracy and preserving democracy. this is an idea. it is not a tangible as a woman's right to choose, a woman's right to make a health care decision. it is a woman being forced to go through with a pregnancy that is unwanted. i think that this issue makes things a lot more concrete for democrats and for voters. and there's other policy issues and broader themes that are hard to grasp and wrap your

arms around. i think that's why, for republicans, it is a danger zone. we look to earlier and republicans do not want to talk about it that much. >> we need to wrap our arms around this one single topic. i usually throw a couplet you. we will do this next time. thank you both. good to see you. pro-choice activists are protesting and preparing for a mother's day action. we have live pictures to show you when we come back. hi liz! that is our reporter. we will see you back in one second. r reporter we will see you back in on second

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