making it illegal for pharmacists to tell patients that ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are not effective to treat covid, even though that has been shown by multiple studies. so, if we are going to let covid circulate, relatively unchecked, which appears to be the current policy consensus, well then for the love of god, we need to do everything we can to use the tools that we have, which we have developed, to reduce the risk and disruption it poses. that means really putting our back into the effort to develop a next generation of vaccine, and drugs, and getting things that we have like paxlovid to everyone who needs it. it is an abomination if congress, particularly the republicans in congress, walk away from that basic duty. that is all in on this thursday night. msnbc prime starts now with ali velshi. good evening, ali. >> well said, chris. it is good to have you back. you have yourself a great evening, we will see you

tomorrow. thank you all at home for joining us this hour. at the start of the year, it was a bit of an open question. when the select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol take the unprecedented step of subpoenaing fellow republican members of congress so that they could testify before the committee. and, did the select committee even have the authority to do it. >> do you think you are going to have to subpoena a sitting member of congress? >> i think that there is some questions of whether we have authority to do it. we are looking at it. if the charges are there, there will be no reluctance on our part. >> with the authorities there, there will be no reelecting from our part. at the time, benny thompson was reluctant to issue subpoenas. i doubt it, he told the associated press, there is no precedent to force that compliance. with the months since, revelations have come to light,

which would force the committee to grapple with a different question. how could the committee not subpoenaed these members? because after conducting nearly 1000 witness interviews on obtaining over 100,000 documents, one thing has become clear: efforts to contest joe biden's legitimate election victory were not limited to the trump white house and sham lawyers and conspiracy theorists. elected republican lawmakers were deeply involved in these efforts. they were integral to the presidents plan to overturn the elections of the 2020 election. a mind-boggling 147 house republicans, look at them all, objected to certifying president biden's victory on january 6th. literally hours after their own workplace was ransacked by a violent mob. but for a smaller cohort of trump die hards, they went far beyond voting. text messages from champs chief

of staff, mark meadows, a loan document his interactions with more than 40 current and former republican members of congress regarding efforts to contest the election and the january 6th riot. we have learned that a previously unknown number of trump's allies in congress attempted multiple postelection white house meetings at which republican lawmakers strategized about ways to prevent biden from taking office. they discussed pressuring the vice president, and getting rid of justice department leadership replacing them with more compliant, trump approved choices. direct witness testimony to the committee confirms they did so even after being advised by white house lawyers that what they were doing was plainly illegal. and while the committee clearly has documents, and witnesses who could attest to those facts, they have yet to hear from those republican elected members themselves. and so today, in a move that

surprised some, the committee subpoenaed five republican members of congress as part of its investigation into the attack. the five recipients had either had conversations with president trump that day, spoke at the rally prior to the attack, or played some role in plotting with trump officials to overthrow results of the 2020 election. all five had previously been asked for voluntary testimony. all five have declined. now, the letters announcing the subpoenas were short. they were on a single page compelling the lawmakers to appear before the committee for a deposition by the end of the month. the most notable recipient, the top republican in the house, kevin mccarthy, whom we know spoke to trump on the day of the attack, multiple reports are clear that mccarthy and trump got into an expletive late shouting match as the attack was unfolding, recent audio unearthed by new york times journalists, and first played on rachel's show, showed mccarthy telling his leadership team shortly after the attack

that what trump did was atrocious, and totally wrong. he said that he would call upon trump to resign. he also told colleagues that trump acknowledged responsibility for the attack. in fact, in plain view of everyone on the house floor, five days after the riot, mccarthy said that trump bore responsibility for the attack. of course, that was after he forgot about all of those concerns and made a pilgrimage to mar-a-lago just a few weeks later to take a nice picture. to make amends. post for a photo with the dear leader. and then there is jim jordan who attended many of those white house meetings in which strategies were discussed for overturning the election. the ohio one was texting white house chief of staff mark meadows before the riot suggesting ways to overturn biden's victory. jordan also spoke to trump multiple times on january six, just how many times you ask? it is unclear. >> on january 6th did you speak with him before, during, or after the capitol was attacked?

>> i would have to go -- i -- i -- i spoke with him the day after. i think after. i don't know if i spoke with him in the morning or not, i just don't know. i mean, i -- , i don't know when those conversations happened. but what i know is that i spoke to him all the time. >> also subpoenaed today, scott perry, chairman of the house freedom caucus. he was apparently the architect to the plot to replace justice department leadership with a trump crony he wanted to declare a doj letterhead that the election results were invalid until legislators in swing states that were won by biden that they should delay certifying their results. we also learned that recently prior to january 6th, perry supported the idea of quote, directing thousands of angry marchers, and quote, from the rally over to the capitol that day. the alabama congressman middlebrook spoke of the january 6th rally that day

urging the crowd to quote, fight for america, and carry the message to capitol hill. former staffer mccarthy recalls on the day of the riot, brooks was cheering on the mob from inside the house, as the attack was underway. from inside. brooks, like the others, also attended various white house strategy sessions to overturn biden's win. recently, brooks has admitted that trump has repeatedly asked him to illegally rescind the 2020 election and restore him back to power, including several times in the past six months. i don't know how brooks himself was going to do that, but anyway. finally, the end arizonian congressman andy biggs is credited with coming up with the idea of holding protests at the capitol that day. and addition to attending white house meetings, and attempting to convince state legislators that the election was stolen, he was allegedly involved in seeking a pardon for those involved in protesting the election that day. all five recipients of today's

subpoenas blasted the committee, calling it illegitimate. a witch hunt. and a charade. brooks even doubled down with a statement saying in part, the 2020 election was stolen. and donald trump is the rightful winner. which was not the question that was asked of him. but notably, precisely note of today's subpoena recipients explicitly stated that they would reject the committee's request. and while they rail against the illegitimacy of the committee, it is notable that the courts keep disagreeing with them. and after, ruling judges promote points on the ideological spectrum, including trump appointed judges consistently ruled the opposite. that the investigation is properly constituted, that it is doing something important, and that it has a right to the information that it is seeking. today, the chairman of the committee, bennie thompson, said he hoped the republican members of congress would comply, quote, as hundreds of other witnesses have done. the clear implied threat there

is that they don't, their story will be left to be told by someone else. >> how integral is their testimony and whatever they might have to say to the investigation into the june hearings? >> well, we would present at the june hearing what we found in the investigation. i would hope that those members who have been identified as having information will come forward. if they don't, then we get to present the findings of our investigation. without their response. >> without their response? so what happens now? outside of ethics investigations that congress, there is no precedent for members of congress issuing subpoenas that they're sitting members of congress. today, members of the committee were repeatedly asked about whether they were worried about the precedent that this could set, and the potential for retaliation in the event that republicans take over the house in november.

here was congressman jamie raskin's response. >> this is an almost unprecedented step. this is rare for members. what do you say about what that does to the broader workings of the institution? >>, are unprecedented events, so people have asked -- for members of congress in the future, if there are coups and insurrections. and i guess that it does. >> we have got a lot of questions, unfortunately my first guest is the perfect person to answer them, the four mentioned congressman, member of the january six committee, jamie raskin. we appreciate your time, thank you for being with us tonight. >> delighted to be with you. >> let me ask you about this. you have mentioned that you have every reason to believe that a republican member who

has been subpoenaed today, the five members, will comply with the committees requests. is that glass half full? or do you believe that to be true? >> it is glass half full. but it is based on probably more than 90% of the people we have been interested in talking to. there are people who have come forward and voluntarily cooperated with the committee. look, it is the whole basis of our legal injustice system. which is that if people have relevant elevens to -- we -- are whole justice system collapses if that does not take place. so if crime takes place either a major crime like a coup, or an insurrection, or any other kind of crime, and that someone is a witness to, it they have a legal duty to come and to testify. and if you think that you are --

your testimony could implement you because you are not just a witness but a participant, you can invoke the fifth amendment, privilege against self incrimination. and our committee respects the constitution. including the fifth amendment. those are really your only choice as if you have got relevant evidence. and the vast majority of people understand that. the vast majority of americans understand that if they received a subpoena tomorrow from a court, or from congress, they would comply. so we just have a tiny, miniscule part of the population that thing somehow the skate above the law. >> do you expect, let's say they either voluntarily comply, or are compelled to comply, do you expect to get new information from them? or are you expecting them to verify information that you believe you already have? >> well, if they testify truthfully, which of course they are legally bound to do, if they are sworn in, than under the laws of perjury, we will receive a lot of new

information. and some of it might be export -- some of it might help them in terms of their public image, and understanding of their role. but as the chairman indicated in that little exert that you invoked, if they do not come forward, we are just going to release the information we have got. and then of course, they will go back to their talking point of how this is a partisan, bipartisan investigation, including the former chair of the house republican congress, and so on. if they have got information about what happened, this is a deadly serious investigation into and attempt to topple our form of government. we came very close to losing it all on january the 6th. and i would hope that someone who swears an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic, would have a sense of legal, civic, and patriotic duty to come forward and to give their

testimony the way that the vast majority of people have. and they of course are excluding people like steve bannon, and mark meadows, and scavino, and navarro. >> i thought it was interesting when mel brooks talked about. that the president, former president of the united states, has contacted him several times to, i don't know do wet, overturn the election and was in the ratification. i don't know what he is asking millbrook's to do. i am not quite sure when mel brooks is capable of doing. but middlebrook's has asserted that they want to hold, a special election for the presidency. have you uncovered whatever that plot is? >> well, he makes an essential point because this is a continuing effort to overthrow our system. donald trump's supporters, like mel brooks are out there saying that donald trump is the rightful winner, and we are

very curious about what mel brooks is referring to when he talks about continuing efforts to get congress to rescind to the election. they're of course is no provision in the u.s. constitution for recision of an election. any more than there is a provision for the military to seize the election machinery, and re-run the election which was another plot they had, anymore than there is justification for the vice president's step outside of his constitutional role and simply unilaterally reject electoral college votes cast by tens of millions of people. so all of these are counterfeit efforts to replace our real constitutional order with something that would put donald trump back into office. and as you can see from congressman brooks in a statement, that effort continues. >> congressman, i have a copy of the mueller report, it is bound, and all of the lawyers interpreted it have all signed it for me, it is like a yearbook.

i am hoping that is not what happens with the january six committee. i know that is a responsibility. because you do not have the wherewithal, the ability, eight to change laws and fix the guardrails that are broken. but what can we reasonably expect to happen? because i am very worried about the things that you come on and warned us about. what are underway. and i am worried, what happens if nothing happens with all of the information you have? what happens if your report falls in the woods? >> well, that can happen. because it is unthinkable that that would happen. we are in a struggle for our democracy. this is the fight of our lives that we are in. autocrats are on the march all over the world. we see the ultimate destination of this kind of authoritarianism, and violence, and lying in ukraine today where donald trump's buddy, vladimir putin, who a number of my colleagues continue to revere and idolized, are

engaged in daily war crimes, a sovereign nation where people want nothing other than their freedom, and their democracy. and so, we understand that there is a struggle to defend democracy all over the world, which is besieged from moscow to mar-a-lago with all of the autocrats and believes in tyrants and dictators getting together against democracy. so, this set of hearings, and the report that will follow, is a message to the country. because what we have under house resolution 503 is a requirement as a committee that we determine the exact events of what took place, the causes behind them, and significantly wet needs to be done in order to fortify our constitution, our institutions, and our values going forward so that we are not subject to further coups, insurrections, and authoritarian attacks on our democracy. >> and you are satisfied that you will have an answer to that third part? when needs to be done? steps that we can actually all take whether there is a

government or states to not ever have to go through this again? >> yes. and you will see some of that began to surface in the hearings. you will see a lot more of it in the reports. and there will be more action by the committee. we have operated in a truly bipartisan, and truly unified way to try to live up to the very serious mandate that has been imposed on us. and we take it seriously. and we are looking at everything that must be done to protect us going forward in the future. because this century is turning out to be a very unstable one where the autocrats, and the racists, and the antisemites, and the ultranationalists are on the march against the democratic peoples and governments of the world. so we are trying to look at this and a really serious way from the ground floor, do we need shuttered proof glass in the office buildings? in the capital? all the way through the electoral count act? the insurrection act, the

electoral college, all of it. we are going to put these questions to the american people. because we have to be very serious going forward if we are going to continue to be a democratic society. in america, democracy is either shrinking, and traveling away, or it is growing, and expanding. and we have got to get our democracy back on the growth track. >> we are on the wrong side of that equation. thank you sir. maryland congressman, jimmy raskin, member of the january six committee, we appreciate you tonight as always. thank you. we have got much more tonight to come, including new developments in one of the investigation surrounding donald trump. stay with us. stay with us

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tonight on the winning investigations surrounding former president donald trump. today, the new york times reports that the justice department has opened a grand jury investigation into how classified white house documents ended up in donald trump's florida home. you may remember that earlier this year, at the national archive discovered that 15 boxes of official white house records, including sensitive and classified materials have somehow found their way to trump's private club and residents. the national archives referred the matter to the justice department, who were planning an investigation into the matter. now that investigation appears to be underway. according to the new york times, justice department prosecutors have already issued at least one subpoena to the national archives, and have begun making

requests pay interview people who have worked in the trump white house during the final days of his presidency. the times also reports quote, the investigation is focused on how the documents made their way to the residents, who boxed them up, whether anyone knew that classified materials were being improperly taken out of the white house and how they were ultimately stored in mar-a-lago, according to a person with knowledge of the matter, and quote. the news of this investigation comes as congress's own investigation into the final days of the trump presidency is also wrapping up. as i mentioned before, january 6th investigators have now subpoenaed five republican members of congress including the republican leader, kevin mccarthy, to testify about what they saw and discussed in the lead up to january 6th. joining us now to help us unpack all of this as a former united states attorney, the coast of the sisters in law podcast, joyce vance. good evening, good to see you. >> good to see you, too. >> let's talk with the

mar-a-lago stuff. i am old enough to remember the days when a federal investigation into the potential handling of classified information was enough to cost hillary clinton a chance of the presidency. how big a deal is this investigation into boxes of potentially classified material but where relocated to mar-a-lago? >> it seems to me that this is a big deal for a lot of different reasons. first off, this is an investigation nobody knows where it is headed, and whether or not there was intentional criminal misconduct. but one possibility that the former president was involved in something that was criminal here. this investigation we should read as a signal from merrick garland, probably an unintentional one that was signal nonetheless, that he is willing to pursue criminal cases that may involve the former president of the united states. people who thought that that was not an option for this justice department, i think that this case gives them reason to reconsider those opinions. you, know it is also a very

serious matter just on its own. doj needs to figure out what was in those 15 boxes of documents, was there is some sort of a leak, was this classified information distributed in an improper way, and if so who was responsible. but the statute makes it a crime simply to remove classified information and to store it in a non secure location. so, there is criminal conduct involved here if someone knew what they were doing when they did this. >> i want to talk about january six. you just heard i had a conversation with jamie raskin who seems confident that at some point these five republican members of congress who have been subpoenaed will show up for their depositions before the end of the month. assuming they don't, jamie raskin seems to be more positive than i am about these things, let's assume they don't. what happens? what should or can congress do to enforce these subpoenas? >> i am not sure that congress

really has to enforce these subpoenas, and to be honest, time is running a little bit close to go to doj and ask for prosecution. because of course, as you and i have discussed before, doj does not get involved in cases with politicians who are actually on the ballot. too close to an election, and all of these representatives will be on the ballot come november. so that maybe a little bit of a long shot here. but if i am one of the people presenting the story of january six to the american people in these committee hearings, i am happy with or without this testament. you know, if i have, it that is great. i hear these folks version. but if i don't have it, i am telling the story through staffers testimony, and documents, and then i get to make sure the american people understand that these representatives, these elected officials, were not willing to come and talk about a coup. they weren't willing to give evidence. in a criminal case, prosecutors cannot tell jurors that a defendant declined to make the

statement. because that scene is a powerful piece of evidence that the jury might use to assume that a defendant who might have not made the statement is guilty. there is no such prohibition in these committee hearings. and folks on the committee will be free to instruct people to make the logical, inferenced from congress, from members of congress, who are not willing to come and talk about a coup attempt. >> joyce, always great to get clarity from you. we appreciate it. former u.s. attorney joyce vance, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> up next, the efforts of right or wrong. to release a wrongly convicted man from death row, and the politicians who were standing in the way. and th politicians who were standin in the way in the way time. it's life's most precious commodity, especially when you have metastatic breast cancer. when your time is threatened, it's hard to invest in your future. until now. kisqali is helping women live longer than ever before

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deputy sheriff william hardy was shot and killed while off duty working at a security guard at a hotel in birmingham, alabama. police were determined to crack this case, apparently at any cost. they arrested five men in connection to the murder. in 1998, they wound up convicting this man. he was sentenced to death. he has been on death row for more than 20 years. but he says he did not do it. that he did not commit this crime. and he has been outspoken about his innocence for all of these ears while sitting on death row. now, more than 20 years later, some of the former judges, prosecutors, and the jurors who

convicted him are agreeing with him. they also say he did not do it. or at least, he deserves another chance to defend himself. the story of how this happened shows a multi engine failure in our criminal justice system. one that we have seen too many times before. in mississippi, with curtis flowers, and sabrina smith, and so many others across the 27 states with the death penalty on the books. here is what happened in alabama in the case of divorce johnson. first, when the police arrested five men suspected of shooting the off-duty police officer in 1995, ballistics showed that only one gun was used in the shooting. so they could not have all pulled the trigger. the police decided to let three of the five men they arrested go, but they kept deforest johnson, and one other suspect, a man name august 4th. and charged them both for the same murder.

that happened where both men had witnesses who could testify to the fact that they were on it nightclub at the other side of birmingham when the shooting happened. both men or charged and tried separately. the prosecution did not try to argue that the men committed the crime together. they cannot decide which of the men did it. so they tried two different theories of the case, in two separate trials, claiming that they had proof beyond reasonable doubt that, i don't know, both of them did it? either of them did it? one of them did it? they didn't know. so they let the juries decide. that happened based on the word of one unreliable witness, 15 year old yolanda chambers. according to the washington post, even the prosecutors in this case have admitted that since the 1995 murder, chambers quote, had told more than 300 lies about who was involved and what she knew. that was the person who was the primary witness in the case against deforest johnson's

friend, and he is the man who named johnson as the one who pulled the trigger. she came forward as a potential witness only after the governor's office announced a 10,000 dollar award for anyone who gave information leading to an arrest. her mother told police she had information about the murder, but she did not. at that point he was in the position of either providing information, or doing jail time for lying about it. she later reported feeling pressured to give some kind of information. before one of his criminal trials, chambers even admitted that she had lied. she said that she had done so because of that pressure. quote, they was yelling at me, you know. don't you know you can go to jail for this? and that's all i was thinking. that's all i had put in my mind, jail. i don't want to go, so after he was putting all the pressure on, me i went on and said that i was there. maybe if i would go on and say i was there, maybe all the threats and everything will end. and a quote.

chambers accusations should have been painfully and obviously false. but apparently they were not. both men went to trial for capital murder. just ahead of the trial, the estate offered him immunity if he would say that to forrest johnson was the one who murdered the officer. he refused. he told his attorney quote, i see that they won't charge me if he said i did it if it were the true i would say it in the heartbeat but i am not lying for anyone, including the cops. ford's trial ended in a hung jury. that favorite acquittal. johnson story went on and the witness who told 300 lies wasn't even the worst of it. johnson was eventually sentenced to death after a laughably poor case. as a former chief justice in the supreme court put it, there was no physical evidence, no eyewitness testimony, no police confession.

the states case relied entirely on a woman who said that she overheard a three-way jail phone call in which a man referred to himself as toforest johnson admitted to the crime. the woman had never met mr. johnson, and she did not know his voice. but her testimony was enough for the jury to convict. it turns out that the woman was paid $5,000 for her testimony after the trial, a factor which was never disclosed to mr. johnson or his lawyers. in fact, his lawyers did not find out until 2003, and did not have proof until 2019 when the state turned over this -- a copy of the check and a former signed by the judge authorizing the payment of $5,000. johnson's legal representation works against him as well. according to the washington post, johnson's attorney who admitted in a court filing that he lacked the necessary experience for a capital case. the lawyer wrote, the

defendants attorney does not have the expertise in criminal investigation worked investigate the facts and interviewed the witnesses surrounding the alleged crime with which the defendant is charged. the defendants attorney has no former shining in criminal investigation, nor do they have the capabilities and time to interview all of the potential witnesses and conduct all of the investigation necessary and essential to provide the defendant with an adequate defense. and the quote. no experience, no training, no time to investigate. it trifecta of trial disaster. the court later agreed to give him a private investigator. they only provided funds for someone, well, someone no one would want. johnson's current lawyer is described as, quote, a brain damage, alcoholic, racist, suicidal, homeless men who had already been fired from at least one capital case from incompetence, have been operating without a business base license for at least five, years and could barely manage

his own day to day affairs. end quote. perfect guy for the job. now that all of this information about this botched case come to light, numerous people want this justice for toforest johnson. former chief justice of the alabama supreme court, he has come out against the case. he asks quote, why is toforest johnson still on alabama's death row? overtime, the state's case has fallen apart, and there is no substantial evidence that mr. johnson is innocent. the district attorney in birmingham believe -- the lead prosecutor from mr. johnson's 1998 case supports a new trial. the former attorney general has also come out against his conviction in an op-ed for the washington post where he writes, as a lifelong defender of the death penalty, i do not lightly say what follows. an innocent man is trapped on alabama's death row. three jurors who voted to convict johnson have also called for the jefferson county circuit court to throw out johnson's conviction.

they publicly expressed disappointment in the trial. one said, quote, when you look back at all of the stuff the jury did not know, i feel like we were used like pawns in a chess game, not even knowing we were being used. it is all very disturbing to read all of this now. johnson's defense now has ten witnesses who put him in a different part of town at the time of the murder. and yet justice is not any closer. this week, the alabama court of criminal appeals rejected johnson's claim that prosecutors committed misconduct. so, the court upheld his conviction. despite that setback, johnson still stands a chance at an entirely new trial, but alabama's governor and attorney general could easily end this all right now. the governor could pardon johnson, the attorney general could drop the case, but so far they have not. why? what is the holdup? the reporter who helped bring this case to national attention joins us after the break. joins us after the break

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- common percy! - yeah let's go! on a trip. book with priceline. you save more, so you can “woooo” more. - wooo. - wooo. wooooo!!!!! woohooooo!!!! w-o-o-o-o-o... yeah, feel the savings. priceline. every trip is a big deal. one of the reasons we know to forest johnson's name and his story is that in a 2019 washington post column, they wrote an opinion essay titled an illusion of justice. laying out an extensive detail the facts of the case that sent mr. johnson to alabama's death row where he is now spent half of his life. quote, this is a story about a wrongful conviction. it's about witnesses who were rewarded for allies and threatened for telling the truth.

it's about overly aggressive law enforcement, a soup pine judiciary and almost comically ineffective representation. and how all of these things remain on death row who nearly everyone now agrees is innocent. even the man who prosecuted him now doubts his guilt. it's a story about the lives ruined along the way. and it's about the murder of a much like deputy that because of all this, remains unsolved. all of those aspects of the story were true three years ago and given a setback to mr. johnson's case this week one of state appeals court upheld his conviction, they remain true today. the case is far from over, though. the district attorney is trying to get a new trial. alabama's governor could pardon johnson. and the attorney general could drop the case. joining us now is readily bilk, oh he's the washington post columnist who wrote that piece for the washington post and help johnson's case corner national tension. mr. bell co-, thank you for being here tonight and thank you for bringing the story to the nations attention.

how did you get started on this? would first review to toforest johnson's case, given that there are many people on death row who claim to not be there for the right reasons. >> part of my beat as a criminal justice system and part of that is reaching out to defensive tierney's and keeping in regular touch with a few of them throughout the country. and so a couple of attorneys that i had interviewed that were correspond with on other cases reached out to me. and one thing i found over the course of my career covering the speed, defensive tierney's handle a lot of cases in a lot of people that they represent are guilty. even though the system can be unfair, they tend to only reach out to a journalist when they're really really mad about a case and when they're really certain that the person is innocent. so as i started doing more and more reporting on the case in talking to the attorneys who were involved. it just became clearer and clearer that this was a real injustice that had gone

unaddressed. >> so all of this stuff that i tried to outline, things that you wrote about that show all of the things that seem to be wrong about having but convicted mr. johnson. it all became very narrow this week because the alabama court of appeals ruled against mr. johnson's claim of prosecutorial misconduct. because the money paid to a key witness in this trial. that seems to be one little piece of this whole thing. but for mr. johnson, it's a complete setback. what is his best chance for getting justice when so many little things went wrong to get him the death penalty? >> this is one of the huge problems with our system. so once the jury returns a guilty verdict in the case, the system just switches from a presumption of innocence to prioritizing the preserving the finality of the verdict. and the idea here is that we want to preserve jury verdicts, particularly guilty verdicts because if we let, if we start overturning them left and right

at the first sign of a badge trial or an unfair trial, then it'll sort of erode the integrity of the system. -- that's an illusion of integrity, that's an actual integrity. actual integrity is correct your mistakes, addressing mistakes. fixing these injustices. but the courts make it extremely difficult for people who are innocent to bring evidence, there is a phase in your trial or in your case called post conviction where this is when you get access to the police files in the prosecutors files. and this is where you're most likely to find evidence of your innocence that could establish or innocence. it's most likely we are likely to find plus misconduct and prosecutorial misconduct. but our system also means when you get to post conviction, that is the time of the courts are least likely to reopen your case. so as soon as you get access to all of this evidence that could potentially for you, the courts make it almost impossible for you to get back in. and when they do, it's piecemeal, it's one issue at a

time. and they tend not to sort of, once they ruled on an issue they're not going to, it's very difficult to give and go back and look at a later. but i do think we use it is very important. right now, he is caught in the system. and the alabama courts are sort of limited by case law and omitted by these post conviction rules about how they have to listen to some of these evidence. i don't get excuses the ruling but it is, it sort of explains it. the album attorney general and the 11 of governor don't have those excuses. they could end this tomorrow. they could free this guy and mr. johnson and end this injustice tomorrow. and why they have an after, even before my article, there's been publicity about this case. why it's been three years. there's just a sense of urgency and i think that's really what's unforgivable here. >> yeah, they've got the same evidence that you know about. bradley, thanks for reporting on this case and keeping it in the front four from four. us radley balko is a criminal justice columnist for the washington post, we appreciate

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and the occupied west bank today where the palestinian presidential compound, is stage one memorial service was being held for -- she was a longtime correspondent for al jazeera, a palestinian american woman. and yesterday she was shot and killed while reporting on a raid by israeli forces in the town of jeanine and the occupied west bank. she died after being shot in the head, though she was wearing a helmet. the producer was shot and injured as well. they were wearing it clearly labeled press jackets. both were veteran journalists, and where they're doing their jobs, bearing witness for those of us who are not there. the situation in the occupied west bank has been heating up for a while now. unfortunately for the past five years or so, the united states

has been largely absent from the conflict but the violence has been escalating. one of the great difficulties in this conflict which palestinians argue goes back to the 1948 exodus of some 700,000 arabs from their homes when the state of israel was founded is that it is sometimes hard to parse who is telling the truth from what is actually going on on the ground. which is why journalists like shireen abu aqla matter. they are there in the thick of it. exposing themselves to very obvious danger. bearing witness without power can be held to account, and hopefully one day this fight, which has gone on for far too long may and. al jazeera and other reporters on the scene quickly attributed shireen abu aqla's shooting to the forces that were carrying out the raid. they believe she was shot by palestinians. the prime minister of israel himself then circulated a clip from this video. israel's prime minister saying quote, there is a good chance that armed palestinians who

fired wildly are the ones who led to the unfortunate death of the journalist. here is the thing, an israeli human rights organization that documents human rights and the west bank joe located the video. you can see the location of the shooter in the video. it is on the lower right of your screen where the text is. and the location where shireen abu aqla was shot is in the upper left. this video now which is sped up is walking between the two points, they go down an alley, around the corner, down another block, around another corner, and then down another very long road. they say this demonstrates the shooting could not possibly be the gun fire that hit shireen abu aqla and her colleague. the israeli government has since backtracked on his earlier statements, and the official told the washington post today that israel is now investigating the possibility that one of its own soldiers killed shireen abu aqla.

and israel's defense minister conceded late last night, the shot that killed her may have come from the israeli side. fights over attribution of violence are by no means new, but this video in the history is really blaming of a killing that may have been caused by its own military on someone else without actually having mailed that information down it's a terrible way for a nation-state to react to a journalist being killed in a conflict zone. their conflict zone. shireen abu aqla was it 51 years old. she becomes the 17th journalist to be killed this year. many of them covering conflicts. she will be buried tomorrow in jerusalem next to her mother. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow. it is time now for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, good evening my friend. ali. and we are going to start off with adam schiff tonight, because he's a member of the committee that has issued these historic subpoenas to members of the house of representatives, the january six committee, he'll explain those subpoenas and his hopes for them. and also