here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour. if it's friday, it's republican panic time apparently in pennsylvania as the party grapples with a pair of surging far right candidates. just days to go until vote night. later i will speak with former president trump's pentagon chief who is now calling trump a threat to democracy.

mark esper joins me here and says what he saw and why he's speaking out now. welcome to "meet the press daily." i am chuck todd. there's panic in pennsylvania among some republicans as the party faces, you can call it, a monster of its own creation. some fear it could cost them in the battleground state that could cost them the senate. kathy barnett, the candidate drawn from the far right world that has been curated and seated by former president trump and his allies. judging by how everybody is acting in the last 48 hours, she's ahead in some tracking polls because all of a sudden a world of hurt is coming down on

her paid for by oz and mccormick. it could cost them the seat being vacated by pat toomey, somebody who voted for impeachment of the last president. now in an exclusive interview, barnett told my colleague that her notoriety may be new but her campaign has been around for a year and she believes it represents the true will of pennsylvania republicans. >> yes, i was trying to tell whoever would listen that when i am walking into these rooms that were filled, and i would ask people, who in this room are new to politics since 2020, and

almost half the room would raise their hand, almost every single time about half the room, and i kept saying there's something new and going on and we need to pay attention for this. >> and barnette is under scrutiny. >> you're stoking fear within the gop right now. what do you say to those in washington who are concerned about your candidacy? >> i will see you on january -- on may 18th, and i look forward to working with them, to win a very important seat. not just in pennsylvania, but for our nation. >> republican ange angst also in

another race. lou republicans are ringing their hands about the rise of candidates in one of the battleground states. frankenstein has been created and now turned against the republican leadership. and joining me on set, leigh ann caldwell, and an anchor of washington post live, some of you may remember her from her days at nbc news, an adviser to bernie sanders and adviser of the more perfect union. welcome to frontrunner status for kathy barnette. it shows how the ecosystem has changed particularly on the

right side of the aisle. her rise in many ways is a creation of this misinformation world of sort of republican trumpism, and now they are trying to stop it. do they have enough time? >> that is that the million-dollar question, chuck. this is a major, major twist in perhaps the most high stakes race of the midterms. listen, a lot of people did not see this coming, but here from the ground up we have been spending a lot of time in pennsylvania. here's sort of what has been happening here on the ground. you have oz and mccormick have been battling it out with attack ads, and voters have been watching that happen and have not been thrilled with that. a lot of the voters we have been talking to see the two frontrunners, and they see the attacks and buy them but buy them from both sides.

for months now i have seen voters looking for the different option. and barnette meanwhile has been traveling thousands of miles across pennsylvania in rooms with voters and you heard her say, something different was happening and a lot of people were listening to her on the ground and were on the internet instead of watching those tv ads buying what some of the other campaigns were selling. now you see this rush, chuck, to see the op-ed research, and we sat down with her earlier this year back in february at the republican state committee meeting here in pennsylvania, and she all predicted this, and she said people are looking at these two guys with big money, and they are from out of state and we are here and talking to voters, and she was not wrong. her campaign is going to have to be prepared now. what happens when you are a

frontrunner, the attacks start coming and we are seeing old tweets resurfacing, and islamic and homophobic tweets that we asked her about. >> i believe it's very unfair to take a snippet -- i don't know how many characters that is, and say, okay, we're going to take this clip and this is what she meant, right? we have no beginning and no end, we don't know what the context was. >> it says it's a corner stone of islam? >> i don't think that's me. i never would have said that. >> chuck, the heat is going to keep turning up for the next few days on barnette. we will see how their campaign responds. that's the million-dollar question, is it too late? have folks already made up their minds? you see the numbers going up, chuck. >> there's a couple more pieces

of the interview i will play, and i will let you go to get back to more reporting, but thank you, darsha. in this case, i think this is a pretty good analysis of the republican primary. take a listen to what she said about the frontrunners, the other frontrunners in the race besides her. >> there has been very little vetting taken place with these two quote, unquote, frontrunners. so -- but the only thing i believe most people were interested in is they were very rich and they were spending a lot of money. i think it's going to say a lot about who is the republican party. is it true all you have to do is a name i.d. and a money and that's all it takes to get through? >> i talk to supporters who are very supportive of trump, and

they want to know more about oz and his position on abortion. they don't know. she's right. that's what is going to hurt, hey, she's not vetted. are you? >> also when the former president donald trump said it to endorse in this race, he went with oz, if you look at his, quote, unquote, record, the least conservative and unknown and he's on television, and people in daytime television knew who dr. oz was, and maybe that was the qualification for the former president to endorse him, and that helps dr. oz for a while and now you have a person that is coming from behind, because, like you said, people don't know who the candidates are. >> here's the irony -- donald trump, i want to put up the full screen. kathy barnette will never be able to win the general election

against the radical left dems. if she is able to do so she will have a wonderful future in the republican party and will be behind her the whole way. donald trump sounds like a bunch of republicans talking about donald trump in 2015. but this is what i mean when frankenstein -- take a listen. >> you organized buses for january 6th, and seeing what happened in the aftermath of that, do you regret being part of that at all? >> i feel about january 6th the way the left feels about the summer of 2020 when you had black lives matter. we need to be very mindful of what is it, and cancel culture is real and i am experiencing it and it's not coming from the left but some of those from the right. >> jim, you know, it's -- they are trying to stop her. she sounds more supportive of trump than either oz or

mccormick. >> shades of bronze coming up the middle. >> yeah, we see this a lot when you have two people that beat each other up. >> exactly. >> the third gets the benefit. >> i know folks inside kathy barnette's campaign, and they took trump's statement as an endorsement and it sounded like that to me. and i always thought pennsylvania would be the toughest to hold, and it's proven to be right. >> we could have barnette and not mccormick to discuss. >> that would be great. >> yeah, there's a remaking of the party going on. i think you sense an anti-establish mood. >> i do. >> an anger towards who the leadership deems to be frontrunners. if you are a big name in politics and you said this should be the candidate, screw you, and i still get to choose

here. i saw it on the left, too. and i think it's going to go to lee's benefit. >> the democrats are so angry at washington leadership. they are all sitting there and i think this is conor lamb's problem. he has the terrible position at a time the democratic party is going what are they doing up there? give the guy in the cargo shorts. >> absolutely. there's a -- washington leadership, schumer, mcconnell, et cetera, they think about electability, but they try to determine electability months before the primary happens -- >> don't the voters get to decide the electability? >> right. one thing that will be fascinating, especially on tuesday in pennsylvania, and after what happened in ohio last

week with j.d. vance winning, the makeup of the republican conference could be so difference, and advance replacing possibly portman, and toomey was well versed on economic policy, and we will see who wins the senate race. >> the republicans have two in pennsylvania, and kathy barnette. >> yeah, they are in serious trouble there. again, i will go back to what i said before. i knew this was going to be a problem. we are not offering candidates that can win, and to go to leigh anne's point, and yeah, you know, voters don't care about that anymore, but they used to. >> it reminds me when republicans put up roy moore in

alabama and you have mccaskill won, and -- >> mcconnell has been worried about this the whole time but he's powerless. >> the power for the biden team, too, is to think about it as not just pennsylvania, but there will be an argument about do these people reflect the modern party. >> and the two of you know this as former campaign managers, and so pennsylvania, no early vote. if this were florida, georgia or texas with the early vote they could have banked traditional primary voters, and pennsylvania is not an early vote state. >> it's early voting without being early voting, so to speak. >> right. >> i have no knowledge of any program that these guys are running at all.

>> pennsylvania laws make it very difficult. they never had a huge mail-in thing. what does it mean for the senate? here's trump trying to find them a better candidate and he can't control his own electorate anymore. >> no, but the seeds have been sewed. this is years and years, like what you said at the beginning, the leaders accepting and playing into the far right fringes of the party. >> they cultivated it. they didn't tell it to go away. >> you have leader mccarthy who embraced them, and leader mcconnell in the senate has not embraced it and has not done anything to tamp it down, and this is what you get. >> it's amazing to me how cautious mcconnell has been. his history doesn't show that at all. usually he does get involved and

he tries to be the king maker. with trump he's just trying to keep his head above water. >> usually he is dispensing a lot of money and endorsements and putting money behind what he thinks is the establishment pick, and seemingly he is afraid of trump and not wanting to go after an endorsement. >> i don't think he's afraid to trump, and if he thought it was -- >> don't forget how unpopular mcconnell is in the republican electorate, and put it this way, i don't think pat mccory would want mitch mcconnell's endorsement. >> mcconnell has a lot of money in his super pac. >> and yeah, he has dragged down -- >> trump has poisoned republicans against mitch mcconnell. again, they have done this to

themselves. they are literally shooting themselves in the electoral foot. good to see you. still to come, a one-on-one with former president trump's pentagon chief who is now calling the former president to democracy. former secretary mark esper will join me. and then we will get the latest from kyiv, coming up. you're watching "meet the press daily." watching "meet the pres watching "meet the pres daily.adaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start—with about 10 minutes of treatment once every 3 months. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if a sample is available. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

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slaying is our business. and business is good. unbeatable internet from xfinity. made to do anything so you can do anything. welcome back. as we discuss former president trump's hold over the republican party, one of his former cabinet members is speaking out about what it's like serving under trump including that time when he thought the republic was, quote, getting wobbly. he would praise his military leaders, and he would tackle

foreign issues, and esper joins me now. his new book is called "a sacred oath." secretary esper, i have a lot that i would love to discuss about the book, but there's a thing that nags at all of us in journalism, and that's the fact you waited until your book to tell us these things. would you ever have told us these things would president trump won re-election? >> yes, i would have told you these things and would not have been in office. the reason i waited is because i knew if i told the stories at the time i would be fired. >> so. >> which is the president's

prerogative, yes, which is, so? i wanted to stay in the job and advance a really good agenda going on at the pentagon, and proposing a new navy and taking care of our people, and at the same time beating back or reshaping some of the outlandish ideas coming out from others. on top of that i did not know who was coming in behind me. i was concerned it would be an uber trump loyalists. i could have resigned -- >> there was a lot of uber trump loyalists. >> and i spoke to many and they said you need to stay. >> i say this, and i understand your rational, and here's you on may 15th of 2020 praising the president. i have this date down for a reason. here it is. >> thank you, mr. president, for your leadership of the bold and astoric initiative, and thank you again for all that you have done. we will get the job done.

>> according to your book, six days earlier, the president met with you and top military leaders and members of the joint chiefs of staff. you write the following, i couldn't imagine a poorer performance and then six days later you praise him. you misled the public? >> no, not at all. president trump had a lot of accomplishments, and lower taxes and rebuilding the military, and building the wall and so forth and so on, and there were moments i thought was good leadership, and operation warp speed was a great success. others have complimented him as well for it. those are two distinct things. >> all this praise, and then -- here it seems like you were privately constantly worried about the president. is that fair to say? >> certainly after june 1st. i came out on june 3rd and

publicly rebuked him, and before that i came out in january of 2020, i did not support attacking historical and cultural sites. it was not all bad and it was not all good. at times i would come out and say what was appropriate to the moment to the president and other times not. >> if he won re-election, and you knew for five months of his behavior, and june 1st was a marker for a lot of you, and i accept that line of demarcation. you still did not tell us before the election. do you at all have any regrets about that? >> i feel better today about it. like you, i was watching the polls. president trump was behind president biden at the time. i could see where things were going, and i thought given the position i occupied at the head of the department defense, and

given ideas of being proposed to the point of where we should strike venezuela, i thought i was better to be in the position from preventing those from happening. >> general milley said he would not execute the order. >> this is what you have to understand about the pentagon. general milley has no authority. he's an adviser. milley did a great job trying to explain this to people, but he's not in the chain of command chuck, and that's why the position there matters so much. >> does trump have the temperament to be president? >> no. >> when did you know this? when did it become clear to you this man is not -- >> it was crystal clear to me on june 1st. he was yelling and ranting about the issue happening in washington, d.c., and that was the pivotal moment for me. that's what resulted with general milley and i coming up

with the four nos. >> tell us about that? you went through it and i think it was important that you had these, and the fact that you had them, again, i am trying to square, why didn't you warn the country? >> as i write about the book, there's a time after impeachment in january of 2020 and it seems we moved to a new level, if you will. the white house brings in fresh troops and i say more loyalists and we see more outlandish ideas of troops to the border and striking mexico and so on, and then we can't allow no strategic retreats, no unnecessary wars, and no use of the military, and i struggle with this. i consulted with folks. many times i would talk to my wife, and she said famously, if you will, as your wife, please quick, and as an american, please stay. >> when you saw him do with

ukraine, hold aid hostage which looks even worse in hindsight, was that not a moment before june 1st -- >> let's expand that. he included javelins, and supported -- yes, i think the aid should not have been held up, and we pressed him on that. at the end of the day i said it then and i will say it now, i don't think it made a material difference with regard to what is happening in ukraine. >> when you saw what was happening on january 6th, i am guessing, number one, you were glad you were not there, but -- >> you think if you were there you think you would have handled things differently, and i got fired and i did my duty as i saw

it. >> post election, did you see january 6th coming? did you have a feeling you would start to play these games. >> no. i write about this in the book, and keep in mind people say you waited two years, and i finished the book four months after i left office, and i thought at the time he would contest it in certain states and he would not be the first president to contest certain states, and it would fadeaway and reconcile, and i didn't see and i don't think many people saw january 6th coming. it was a horrible and tragic event and i write about that as well. >> it does seem as if you saw the potential of his irrational behavior, and suddenly it came to fruition on and around january 6th. looking back now you still have no regret about speaking out sooner? >> no, because i don't think it would have made a material difference. he lost the election. what is the complaint? he lost the election.

>> there's a lot of people in the country that thinks his complaints are legitimate, and they are beyond illegitimate. >> what was getting to the election without political interference involving dod, and i talk about the final days where i am concerned about troops being deployed after the election, and me leaving would have left the dod leaderless when we are fighting covid and have troops in the streets and seven months without dod leadership before, and i thought stepping away would have been the wrong thing to do for the country, but great for me, chuck . >> you know how comfortable he

is looking up to putin and -- do you think his instinct to the authoritarian leaders, and why do you think he seems to hold them in higher regard? >> he puts people in two categories, strong and weak. i don't understand it, and it's something you had to factor in and try to put into your calculous as you handled issues, but i can't explain it. >> there is a lot of people that would look at you you waited to tell the best stories when you could make a dollar off of it. >> i wanted to tell the story and i think it's critical for the american people to know the mistakes i made and the successes i achieved and et cetera. i wrote this in four months, right after i left office and suffered through the dod review process for about ten months. look, it's important that the

american people know these stories. i am not the first secretary of defense to write a book. all my predecessors have. >> you guys denied stories that turned out to be true. >> name one that i denied. name one i denied. >> i will not violate agreements other reporters made. i will not violate that. there are plenty of things that seem to be denied by the pentagon that were later confirmed. >> you would have to cite it, and if i didn't want to talk about it, i wouldn't talk about it. there's always going to be questions about when should you say this? democrats complained you shouldn't release a book while you have a sitting president. this is not new news in this regard. >> that's a fair point. former secretary of defense, mark esper. certainly making a lot of noise during your book tour.

best of luck. >> thanks, chuck. the extraordinary step taken of subpoenaing five republican members of congress, and how far are they willing to go to compel the testimony? that's next. you're watching "meet the press daily." next. you're watching "meet the press you're watching "meet the press daily. [ screaming continues ] that's cool. we'll finish up here. bye! [ roars ] [ screaming continues ] that's why you go to the restroom before the movie starts. get epic protection for your dominion with progressive. you never know what opportunities get epic protection for your dominion life will send your way. but if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or psoriatic arthritis, enbrel can help you say i'm in for what's next. ready to create a bigger world? -i'm in. ready to earn that “world's greatest dad” mug? -i'm in. care to play a bigger role in this community? -i'm in.

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investigating january 6th, and they have taken the next step and subpoenaed five republican members, and they expect the five republican members, including kevin mccarthy, to cooperate with the subpoena, and now based on reaction, compliance sounds far from certain. >> i think this is an illegitimate committee and they don't have the authority to issue subpoenas in my opinion so we don't want to dignify what they are doing. >> does that mean you will not comply with the subpoena? >> i have not seen it so i can't tell you if i am going to comply or not. >> look, my view is they want to go after their political opponents. >> the fact they sent it to the press before they sent it to the members proves it's about headlines and the whole thing is a charade. >> and congressman mo brooks

said he would wait and consult with the other subpoenaed members before he will comply, and he has been back and forth about telling more stories especially after trump pulled his endorsement. all five members were asked to testify at the end of the month ahead of public hearings in june, but a lengthy court fight could delay that and then here to answer a couple of the legal questions is a former federal prosecutor and msnbc analyst, carol lamb. this is one of the cases where it's taking place in one branch of government. you have operation separation of power issues, and is congress the judge and jury here? >> yeah, that's the right

question to ask, chuck, because congress may be the right branch to ask, but it depends on how they decide to go about this. they can take one of several options. they can do what they did with steve bannon and they could -- and mark meadows, and they could refer it as a criminal content on a house vote over to the department of justice for enforcement of the criminal subpoena -- sorry, enforcement of the subpoena in a criminal process, and that's if they decide not to testify pursuant to the subpoena, and that puts the subpoena in the hands of the justice department and that's a slow and deliberative process the justice department has to go through. to date they only proceeded with the subpoena enforcement with steve bannon. they could try a civil enforcement proceeding in the

courts, and that also takes time. they set a strict timeline to get the hearings done by the end of june. and the possibility that you raise, they keep it within the legislative branch and they try to find something they can take away from the members or a sanction that could convince them to testify, and will that really persuade these members to testify? i think there's a big question mark there. >> i have one idea that could persuade them to testify, carol? that would be this. do they want their subpoenas complied with if they are in the majority? >> that comes to the unprecedented nature of this. you know, chuck, i think that when you are looking at this picture as a -- as is the committee going to, quote, win, by getting the subpoenas

complied with, or are the representatives going to win by playing out the clock, i think that's assuming that the members of the committee really think they will comply with the subpoena. i know statements have been made to that affect, but i have to think realistically the committee doesn't believe all of these members will comply with the subpoenas. what is the game end here given the tight timeline. the end game is it comes to a point before you have these open hearings, and it comes to a point where you have to say, all right, they have not cooperated voluntarily so far, which they haven't. we are just going to do it. we are just going to subpoena them with an actual official subpoena, which is an unprecedented situation and we are going to put them in the position to either comply with it or be the first sitting representatives in congress to defy a subpoena from the house. >> carol, i guess i would throw

in one other, you know, as a news organization when we are reporting a tough story and the person we are reporting it about, we want to give them a chance to respond, hey, there's allegations and here's what we have and we want to make it clear, we gave you plenty of time to respond, and this could be the reason they did this, they know a lot of what they did, and they may tell a story and they would say we love a clarification, but they refuse to tell us their side of the story. now the committee can say we gave you ever chance, and in fact, we tried to compel you to give your side of the story. >> there's no question, chuck, and something in criminal investigations as well, you often say we have the evidence from third parties we gathered and if you want to testify in front of the grand jury we will give you that opportunity, and if you decide not to do that, don't come back and say you didn't give me a chance to explain my side of the story.

that plays into this move a great deal. >> carol lam, always good to get your expertise and clarification on all this. thank you. and then one russian soldier faces the first war crimes trial in kyiv. that just ahead. you're watching "meet the press daily." you're watching "meet the press you're watching "meet the press daily.ss brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour. for copd, ask your doctor about breztri. breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler

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ukraine, my colleague, erin mclaughlin joins us, and i want to start with you and i want to talk about the war crimes trial. this is one, and how many talk war crimes trial. this is one. how many more in the queue? how many more are they investigating? is this just one of many or one they want to use to make a point? >> reporter: well, this is just the tip of the iceberg. there are potentially thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of war crimes allegations, potential trials, especially when you look at some of the horrors, especially in mariupol. this man admitted he turned

himself in. the prosecutor made it public, alleges that this 21-year-old sergeant shot and killed a 62-year-old ukrainian civilian. he was traveling in a column of russian tanks moving towards the russian city of sumi. that column came under fire, they took out the lead tank in the column. from there he and three other russian soldiers tried to make an escape. they hijacked a volkswagen and drove it toward a ukrainian village. as they approached the village, they saw the civilian on the bike. he was on the phone. they sort of assumed that he was calling for ukrainian backup and they shot this particular soldier following orders from another soldier in the car shot and killed him. that is the case stated by the

ukrainian prosecutor. we have yet to hear his version and his attorney declined to comment on the case. it is a court-appointed attorney. this particular attorney is a private attorney, a ukrainian. it's potentially a very significant moment for the ukrainian judicial system. and in speaking to the prosecutor, she is adamant to get justice in this case. >> it shows you that everything is still working as a democratic nation. let me bring in clint watts here. we had a little breaking news, which is that turkish president

erdogan may reject to finland and sweden coming into nato. we know that erdogan and putin have had their on again-off again ties before. give me the update. for this week have the russians made progress or lost progress? >> chuck, i would say on aggregate lost progress. here's why. last week we saw the ukrainians in the northeast very close to kharkiv advance east tens of kilometers. when they did that, they put pressure on the command line that goes down to izyum. the russians need to take that location so they can create a larger envelopment. they have not been able to advance. this is also where there's reports of a general meeting with a lot of senior officers,

potentially being injured there and lots killed. it's causing the russians to have to move back north and essentially have to defend their rear lines. that is a setback for them. that's the lie blue area around kharkiv. and in and around luhansk. there are many individuals in the ukrainian military who use the new artillery pieces and you're starting to see the switch blade drones deployed for the first time. that is going to be devastating for the russians. in the south, those troops in mariupol for the russians are being deployed northern for donetsk. while going there, they need a

russia. how motivated are they to advance north they've been in intense fighting when things aren't going well. particularly in the south and east, what is success? you've got to believe in the cause, you have to believe in the plan, you have to believe in your leaders and in each other. i think russia is 0 for 4 and ukraine is 4 for 4. >> does making a big public case of the war crimes trial have an impact on the morale of russian soldiers? you can't help but wonder if it might. >> i don't know at this point but it is an interesting sort of contrast to what the russians have been hearing. imagine you're a russian soldier and you thought this was going to a cake walk, you meet resistance and you see your comrades being detained and being tried for war crimes.

the question is do they know about it, are they even aware? i think it will trickle through over time. it will take some time. either way i think it's the right thing to do because what you're seeing is the russian way of warfare that is often ignored on other battlefields. syria and chechnya are examples of this, ignored. >> you're right, it is important for the world to get an idea of how they're trained in combat. thank you all for being back with us. i'll be back on monday. msnbc's coverage will continue with katy tur after this break. e with katy tur after this break kevin, no! not today. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. today capitol hill finds itself once more navigating uncharted territory. the house select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol is in a new phase of its investigation, subpoenaing five sitting members of congress. minority leader kevin mccarthy, andy biggs, mo brooks and scott perry and jim jordan. none have said they will comply, at least not yet. >> congressman, jim jordan, will you comply with that subpoena om