about the absurdity of clarence thomas dealing with any cases dealing with january six and how crucial his recusal is to ensure that justice is truly done. if thomas doesn't remove himself, they will have no one else to blame for the destruction of americans fate of the idea that the highest court in the land still possesses an integrity that is beyond reproach. but, to recuse himself would require clarence thomas to do the right thing. so, i am not holding my breath. thanks for watching the katy van gogh, velshi starts right now. van gogh, ve >> good morning. it's sunday, may 15th, i'm maria teresa kumar in four ali velshi. we begin with the latest on a deadly mass shooting in upstate new york. at least ten people are dead and three more wounded after a white 18 year old gunman, dressed in military style attack co-chair, opened fire at a supermarket in a predominantly black

neighborhood in buffalo, new york. according to officials. the government has been arraigned on first degree murder and is being held without bail. his next court appearance is scheduled for thursday. a senior law enforcement official told reporters that the parents of the suspect are distraught and are cooperating, and they say the suspect recently purchased weapons used. which included a semiautomatic rifle, a hunting rifle and a shotgun. 11 of the victims are black, into our white, according to officials. investigators say the gunman livestreamed the massacre on social media service twitch and that he was motivated by racial hate. >> this was pure evil. straight-up racially motivated hate crime, from somebody outside of our community, outside of the city of good neighbors, as the mayor said, coming into our community and trying to inflict that evil upon us. >> a racist alleged manifesto

was posted a line under the suspect's name on thursday night. sources tell nbc news that the suspect appeared to have written, etched on the weapons, the n-word. according to photos of the weapons that law enforcement sources confirmed nbc news belong to the suspect. another one had, quote, here's your reparations written on it. the justice department and fbi are investigating the crime as a hate crime and a tragedy of, quote, racially motivated extreme violence. joining me now, live in buffalo, new york, is nbc correspondent jesse kirk. jesse, what's the latest on the investigation? >> well, we know from a senior law enforcement official that authorities are looking that alleged manifesto you mentioned, which appears to contain racist antisemitic tropes. and that manifesto alleges, again this is all alleged at this point, it is not been directly confirmed to be linked to the suspect. but this potential manifesto for the suspect claims that he

became radicalized in an extremist form because he was bored at the start of the pandemic. and in the aftermath of this, we are looking at ten people killed, according to authorities. three more injured. and officials told us last night that all but two of the victims were african american. which goes in line with what they're saying about this allegedly being a hateful rampage. that suspect now faces one count of murder in the first degree and we expect, later this morning, according to the city of buffalo, to learn the names of the people who were killed. we know one of the victims, according to officials, was a security, guard a former buffalo police officer who apparently fought back. authorities say the security guard shot at the suspect but the suspect, we are told, was in tactical gear and apparently had enough armor on that he was able to continue his rampage. in the process, according to officials, shot until that security guard among the ten

people that were killed here. just to put this into context, this is the fourth mass shooting at a u.s. grocery store in little more than a year. and, of course, this is just barely a month after that mass shooting in a brooklyn subway tunnel in new york city. hours from here, but in new york state. that, is of course, going to be top of mind for new yorkers here. we can see the community out here this morning. we see, flowers candles at, here we do expect a vigil about an hour and a half from now here in the community. trying to make sense, of course, of something that is truly senseless. >> and pc news correspondent kirsch in buffalo, thank you so much for your reporting. joining, the nbc news national security analyst clint watzke. author of messing with the enemies, surviving a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians and fake news. also with me is roland martin, host and managing editor of hashtag roland martin unfiltered, the ceo of blackstone network. and he has a new book coming

out, white fear, how the browning of america's making white folks lose our mind. clint, thank you so much for joining me. and roland, i want to start with you. clint, because there are so many parallels that came to me when we are hearing the unraveling of the story, the fact that he was a young man that purposefully got into his car and drove it to a another city to cause maximum harm to a community of color. he left a manifesto, he wanted to -- he got inspired and radicalized online. all of the seems to check the same box, the same list, as would happened in el paso, tragically, almost two and a half years ago. could you talk about those parallels? and is the radicalization happening at such extreme cases online that it is spilling out in the real life? >> yeah, that's right, maria. if you look at the manifesto, you also look at what's the individual did in buffalo, he pulled strings from many

different attacks before him. his manifesto reference as many of the attacks that have come before him. in fact, there was a man named taryn, you might remember, an australian who did a mosque attack and live streamed it in march of 2019. many of the part of his manifesto reference carrot, he's not in these communities at st. parent. instead of having an ideology they write a manifesto, that manifesto is then referenced by those that follow them as and essentially a playbook. as well you're going to do when you undertake an attack. when you look at a social media footprint as well, from what we can tell, the attacks that trap back to him, he was planning this in an online community for at least two months. in, that he lays out very succinctly and very step-by-step details what he plans to do. i would also just reinforce that this is quite common in these online communities.

one of the biggest barriers of the last two years has been the pandemic, essentially there wasn't enough targets, wasn't any way to do targeting or even mobilize. i think that vowels has come off. this is really concerning, because these often create a contagion where other white supremacists, racially motivated, around the world see an attack like this, in this attack. it inspires them to essentially carry out another attack. i'm worried about the contagion effect. i'm also worried about how difficult it is for law enforcement. as you said, he drove 200 miles, that is similar to what we saw on the el paso attack. he is livestreaming, which is very technical to police online. that's something we've seen at least twice, as terrence did in the new zealand mosque attack. there's a lot of indications here but it's hard to piece together where the attacks might unfold. >> well, i think this is something, that sadly, amongst

our communities we talk about not loud but behind closed curtains and at our dining room tables we talk about the fear of white supremacy and targeting communities of color, african american, latino, asian. what do you say, now? because oftentimes, roland, people say it wasn't really a hate crime and they try to make it less and then the blow it actually was. this man had, in his hands, a gun that said here are your reparations. what do you say to folks that try to say that we are over qualifying the rates in hate in the united states? >> the only thing that i have been quiet about, when i was on cnn and 2009. i remember we are often ready to go on, and i said to john, we are re-living in the age of white minority resistance. it was all after the election of president barack obama. i have been yelling this from the rooftops for the last 13

years, that's why even working on this book, white fear, for the last three years. but we have to understand is that what you have in this country, you have people who are angry and afraid that america is changing, becoming more multi cultural. you've got politicians, you've got republicans talking about this whole replacement theory. you've got conservative radio, conservative bloggers, fox news literally making millions and billions off of this. they are purposely pushing the buttons of white rage. and so, we have to understand that. the fbi director has talked about the greatest threat being domestic terrorism, white touristic terrorism. if not some muslim shooting up someplace, it is white people in this country that are angry and upset because the country that they have known that has been theirs is changing. and we need to understand, this will not be the last time. so, this mass killing is on the

far end of the spectrum. but how do you deal with individuals in political power who are literally saying the exact same thing that he said in his manifesto? and they are the ones who could be in charge after the midterm election. we cannot overlook this. >> so, plant, let's talk about that. your expertise, oftentimes, is very much what happens in the closed web. how people get radicalized. but roland puts up a great point, we have members of the republican party that are talking about replacement theory in their political ads. we have a whole network that is dedicated to talking about the rise of a multi cultural america, that makes them feel an easy, and directly blasting it. when you talk about it contagion, how do we control this? under president trump, he actually dismantled one of the units that was, its whole focus, what's the counter white nationalism. what do we do when our

leadership, sadly, seems to be part of the fire that we are experiencing right now? >> when political leaders, elected leaders, media leaders start picking targets and start demonizing populations, you will see an uptick in violence and you will see an uptick in individuals that move to violence. it's called stow-tastic terrorism, the ideas you can't determine where any single plot will be because of mediated, over the airwaves. but there is target designation. we see this in terms of the language and the rhetoric used by different political groups. in the online environment, i would tell you that the it is ten fold. especially in the younger generation. when you heard director right go to these meetings, when he speaks a different places, he routinely emphasizes that the populations he's worried about in terms of terrorism are racially motivated terrorists, white supremacists. and where did they emerge from? they emerge from the online communities. and why does that difficult to

detect them? because they're not operating a groups. these are young man, just like you see there in that footage, who are being radicalized and mobilized online. they coordinate together, they inspire each other and, in some cases, they actually form cells overtime. this is the inverse of what we saw after 9/11. the american terrorist problem is about white supremacy, it is about online mobilization and it is a bad access to weapons. we act like this is some sort of aberration, it is not. what's different between international terrorist and domestic terrorist over the last 20 years? international terrorist often don't have access to targets, they don't have access to the weapons. but who does? an 18 year old, here, has access to weapons. an 18-year-old who is radicalized, what appears to be very recently based on his postings over the last two years. he can quickly go, outgained those weapons, and do it legally. there is no screening mechanism. there is also reports already

this morning that this individual may have been known to law enforcement may have made a separate threat about a potential mass shooting at a different time. so, there are indicators out there, but we're not responded to it. if it's international terrace we absolutely would. >> i think you underscored -- >> maria, -- >> go ahead, roland. >> i really want us to understand that this is american history we're talking about. this has been going on for 400 years. the response to the rise of a minority group has a vote this response. black people have experience this terror for centuries. we need to understand that, it's not just this new phenomenon. and, so it is directly tied to the advancement of people, the fear that they are taking our jobs, they're taking our resources, they're taking our women, they're taking our money. we're not going to relinquish this power. we better understand, this will not be the last time we're dealing with this here. this is white fear.

>> clint, roland, i think what you guys are both talking about is very much the rise of a multi cultural america. this is very much an experiment in democracy, we've never seen this on earth. we recognize, when we say a multi cultural democracy, we're talking about 140 million americans who are people of color. and so, we are going to have to resolve, we're going after is all that together and we're going to have to have more frank conversations. because what makes america so special is the fact that we are diverse. clint watson, roland martin, thank you so much for the expertise on such a really sensitive, difficult topic. we'll bring you all the latest developments on the mass shooting in buffalo throughout the show. plus, more breaking news. finland announced earlier this morning that it will officially apply to join nato. we'll go live to kyiv, ukraine for reactions and for the latest on the war. and yesterday, thousands of people took to the streets and cities across america, demanding abortion rights be protected. what else can be done, next on msnbc. next on msnbc.

so you only pay for what you need. (emu squawks) if anyone objects to this marriage, speak now or forever hold your peace. (emu squawks) (the crowd gasps) no, kevin, no! not today. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it. usually. and in it. mostly. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour. do your eyes bother you? because after all these emails my eyes feel like a combo of stressed, dry and sandpaper. luckily, there's biotrue hydration boost eye

drops for instant moisture. biotrue uses naturally inspired ingredients. and no preservatives. try biotrue what happens when performance... meets power? you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ dove knows we damage our hair a lot my hair i curl it. i have to use a lot of heat new dove hair therapy shampoo & conditioner with ceramide & peptide.

it nourishes at a cellular level to rescue damaged hair. discover 10 x stronger hair with new dove hair therapy rescue and protect. open talenti and raise the jar. to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to all five layers. raise the jar to the best gelato... you've ever tasted. talenti. raise the jar. [ doorbell rings ] my fellow xfinity customer! watchathon week was a resounding success! young man! [ snoring ] and, even though it's now over... you can keep watching the hottest shows all year long... ...on netflix... ...prime video... ...starz... ...and hbo max! just say “watchathon” into your voice remote to add a channel or streaming service.

abortion rights supporters are not giving up the fights despite a looming supreme court decision that appears likely to overturn roe v. wade, as soon as next month. tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets across the country yesterday to show their support for preserving abortion rights in america. these protests were in reaction to the draft opinion which released two weeks ago showing that the majority of justices are prepared to strike down roe versus wade. while justice alito's draft opinion is not yet the supreme court's final decision, much of its content has already been picked apart and discussed. one phrase in particular is drawn a significant amount of ire. in a footnote, justice sylvia references that quote, the domestic supply of infants relinquished a birther within the first month of life and available to become adopted has

become virtually nonexistent. he is quoting a 2008 cdc report there. but the rhetoric towards doctrine as an alternative to abortion in this draft opinion has drawn comparisons to the dystopian society in the handmaids tale. justice amy cohen we barely made a similar argument when she referenced safe haven laws in december, when the supreme court first heard this case. it matches the cruelty of forcing women to carry a pregnancy to full term by presenting adoption as a supposedly compassionate alternative. but that is not always the case. we are gonna discuss this in more detail with somebody studying the reality of the welfare system, and how it affects the children and families involved. roberts joins me after the break. we will be right back. will be right back. rition, sleep, immune system, energy...even skin. and before you know it,

healthier can look a lot like...you. ♪ ♪ cvs. healthier happens together. if you have type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure you're a target for chronic kidney disease. you can already have it and not know it. if you have chronic kidney disease your kidney health could depend on what you do today. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga is a pill that works in the kidneys to help slow the progression of chronic kidney disease. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. and don't take it if you are on dialysis.

take aim at chronic kidney disease by talking to your doctor and asking about farxiga. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪far-xi-ga♪ every year we try to exercise more, to be more social, to just relax. and eating healthy every single meal? if only it was this easy for us. >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. this dad and daughter were driving when they got a crack in their windshield. [smash] >> dad: it's okay. pull over. >> tech: he wouldn't take his car just anywhere... ♪ pop rock music ♪ >> tech: ...so he brought it to safelite. we replaced the windshield and recalibrated their car's advanced safety system, so features like automatic emergency braking will work properly.

>> tech: alright, all finished. >> dad: wow, that's great. thanks. >> tech: stay safe with safelite. schedule now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ being connected. it's vital for every student. so for superintendent of public instruction, tony thurmond, it's a top priority. closing the digital divide, expanding internet access for low-income students and in rural areas. it's why thurmond helped deliver more than a million devices and connected 900,000 students to broadband over the last two years - to enable online learning. more than 45,000 laptops went to low-income students. re-elect tony thurmond. he's making our public schools

i am joined now by dorothy, robert director the program

andre science and society. she's also the author torn apart, how the health care system -- in developing a safer world. thank you so much dorothy for joining us. so many questions, especially in the eve of which is having a, buffalo new york. but the first one to get your take on this quote that is cited in the brief that was leaked on by alito, basically saying that the domestic supply of -- a reference to overturning roe v. wade. what's the meaning of this, and how does this it with you? >> well, what he means is that there is a, need a demand, for children to be adopted by more privileged people from less privileged people. and that there is not enough children to meet the needs. and what that means to me is that treating children to be adopted as if they are commodities, as if they are

part of a market of supply and demand. and actually, that is the way in which the adoption industry functions include states. it has always function. it is a system that mirrors the racial and other inequities in america and around the globe. so that it is always more privileged people adopting less privileged children. it is based on a system of coercion, whether we are talking about private adoptions and mothers relinquishing their children, as being anticipated here, in the case of banning abortion it would be coercing women to have children in order to put them up for adoption for other people. there is also the public adoption, and of our foster care system, which is an

extremely coercive in punitive and terroristic system. you have to remember that all of the children in foster care, and there are over 400,000 children in foster care today. so those who are so-called available for adoption is only because their parents rights have been terminated, forcibly, by the state. they have been taken from their families. so this image of giving up children to save them from either people who would have had abortions or from families who are seen as not treating their children well, is a system of what i call family policing. it is coercing people and they are mostly from politically marginalized communities. disproportionately from black communities, native communities. there is a long history to this

separating children from these communities. and because of this, whether we are talking about people who are forced to endure their pregnancies against their will because of bans on abortion and the overturning of roe v. wade, or whether we are talking about children taken forcibly from their families in order to make them available for adoption, this is a violent and coercive system that mirrors social inequities in our society, including race and class. >> dorothy, something you have highlighted is the fact the roughly 20,000 children the door h of adoption and when the ag out they don't have family ties and oftentimes they don't have studies, they don't have the readings that so many children have. this is not really about adoption it is more about adopting a certain type of child, sadly. i want to ask, you because i

think this is so closely tied to what happened in buffalo and the conversations that we are having around abortion and who has access to it and who doesn't, they basically say that it was racially motivated, something that was really interested to me is the great replacement theory was quoted in the manifesto of this person who did this heinous crime. and that is not so dissimilar about what we are talking about now. he also talked about the low white birth rate since the census came out in april, when we learned for the very first time of the white population in america actually declined for the first time in the decades. what does this speak to you that they seem to be the silos of this conversation which seemed to be hat happening parallel, pointing in the same direction >> it is very much connected. underlying anti abortion rhetoric inaction is the idea that white woman should be having more babies to build up the white nation.

and so as you just mentioned, the babies who are most desired for adoption by white people are white babies. and there is a long history of white male supremacist ideas that white woman should not have abortions because we need more white children in america. and this is what the shooter was referring to by replacement theory. the fear that there are not enough white babies being born in america to replace the population, the white population. and that it is dwindling. and therefore, we can see the connection between this white male supremacist idea of building up the white population in opposition to the growth of the non white population in america, and the idea that white woman should not be having abortions. there is this small antiabortion idea that black

women having abortions is a form of racial genocides. justice thomas has referred to this, and that is just a false idea of what is behind the anti-abortion movement. historically, and today. the main solution that white supremacists watch for black women having babies is to sterilize them. it is not to give them the freedom of reproductive rights. antiabortion is a movement to dominate people. and it is then connected to the adoption and fostering of the industrial complex, which also is based on coercion and based on inequitable hierarchies in our society. >> dorothy,.

>> dorothy, i think that you are underlining is very clearly, i think for the audiences might be the time that they're hearing it so clearly, that abortion bans and for sterilization of women of color, none of this is by itself in the silos. it is with this world view, this myopic worldview, that sadly does not reflect the country that we're living in. for the, robert there's a lot to unpack there, but thank you for spending time with us and dropping so much knowledge on our audience this morning. >> thanks, maria teresa. >> ukraine continues to successfully push russian forces out of major cities in the northeast. next, we'll go for the very latest on where the fighting is 22. you're watching velshi on msnbc, we'll be right back. nbc, we'll be right back. lemons. lemons. lemons. lemons. look how nice they are. the moment you become an expedia member,

you can instantly start saving on your travels. so you can go and see all those, lovely, lemony, lemons. and never wonder if you got a good deal. because you did. (vo) every business, big or small, coast to coast, needs internet that can keep up with its demands. verizon has fast, reliable internet solutions nationwide. so you can power your business to do more. find the perfect solution for your business. before treating your chronic migraine— 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more you're not the only one with questions about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start—with about 10 minutes of treatment once every 3 months. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if a sample is available. effects of botox®

may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. plus, right now, you may pay zero dollars for botox®. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. godaddy payments offers fast and secure payments for customers at the lowest transaction fees. so you can keep more of the money you make and continue to grow your business.

if you've got it, we've got you. start today at godaddy.com/payments entresto is the number one heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists and has helped over one million people. it was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto. >> we've got some breaking news on the ukraine front. finland has announced plans to apply for membership of the northern atlantic treaty

organization, otherwise meadows made no. the nordic country shares a border with russia and has held neutral status for decades. sweden is also considering joining the military alliance. we're also learning more about the apparent russian return. the military says russian troops were leaving the city after weeks of bombarding. it the russians are now turning their attention to the eastern donetsk province. meanwhile, in mariupol, which is now mostly russian controlled, officials say the city is on the brink of humanitarian crisis. yesterday, advisers of the city's mayor posted on telegram, quote, drinking water still inaccessible for the majority of mariupol's residents. it's necessary to go a long ways to water supply points, bottles are carriers. this is as president zelenskyy says he still tried to negotiate the safe evacuation of several ukrainian fighters, trapped in that region. and, overnight, british intelligence officials released new information that suggest putin could be ready to take more desperate measures in ukraine. officials worry that putin plans to accelerate the rate of

his offensive, despite the fact that it looks like the russian army may have lost about a third of its ground combat forces. erin maclachlan is in kyiv, ukraine. erin, this news about finland officially announcing its intent to join nato is significant. what is the next step for finland? >> hey, maria teresa. you're right, it is a big deal, especially considering that four years finland has exercise neutrality when it comes to being a member of the nato alliance. and, if it does join, it will effectively double the size of the alliances border with russia. now, today's announcement follows what's seems like a very tense conversation between russian president vladimir putin and his finish counterpart, yesterday. in which putin told the finished president that joining nato would be a, quote, mistake. the finnish president responding, saying that the fed led security situation has changed markedly, given russia's war in ukraine. which finland is firmly against

and clearly concerned about. in terms of the next steps in this potential stumbling block on friday. the turkish president announced his skepticism about sweden in particular, but also other scandinavian countries joining the nato alliance. citing sweden's backing, or a parent, alleged backing of kurdish militant groups. now, the white house says it's looking to turkey to clarify those remarks. noted a topic of conversation at the nato foreign ministers meeting that is happening this weekend. meanwhile, here in ukraine, as the war goes on in the east in particular, with russia suffering setbacks, ukraine blowing up russia's attempt to cross a key river. the british defense ministry saying that russia has suffered significant losses. overnight, there was a big morale boost for ukraine. they won the euro vision 2022 contest, collusion orchestra,

which is a ukrainian wrapped band. one with the song stefania which was first written for the lead singer's mother, but has since become a war anthem. following their performance, the band faking the audience for their support, as well as calling for more support for mariupol, the devastated port city that you are mentioning there in particular. president zelenskyy saying that the sound of victory soon will also be heard here in ukraine. he's vowing that next year, the eurovision song contest will be held here in ukraine, as is the custom. maria teresa? >> i actually caught that. the eurovision song, it was moving but also talks about how culture could change minds and hearts. so, nbc's erin maclachlan, thank you so much for joining us from kyiv, thank you. like other nations, the united states has considered reopening its embassy in kyiv, ukraine. a top diplomat from the embassy joins me, right after the break. r th break.

try boost® today. (driver) conventional thinking would say verizon has the largest and fastest 5g network. but, they don't. they only cover select cities with 5g. and with coverage of over 96% of interstate highway miles, they've got us covered. to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash.

bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. >> u.s. secretary of state

anthony blinken, in germany today. meeting with foreign ministers from nato and sweden and finland. the government of finland now says the previously neutral company does, in fact, intend to apply for nato membership. joining me now is cut sunac heavy, -- at the u.s. embassy in ukraine. earlier this week, she led the team a diplomat says a return to kyiv to map out plans for a full return to the embassy. thank you so much for joining me this morning. i think the biggest news right now coming out is that finland is considering joining nato, and this is one of the reasons putin claimed that he was going into ukraine. because ukraine was thinking about joining nato. how does this change putin's plans? how does this change the war? >> well, i don't know how much

it changes the war. but when i can say is that this is just another example of the failure of president putin's war against ukraine -- allies. instead, he is uniting them. he thought he could weaken nato, he strengthening nato. not only is the strengthening it but he's bringing it closer to his borders. which is something he said he didn't want. so, i would just say that finland and sweden's desire to join nato is just another example of the strategic miscalculation that putin took when he invaded ukraine. >> christina, one of the things that we're watching is that putin is now threatening finland and sweden, saying that if they do take this charge there will be consequences. but to those consequences look like, potentially? and how is the united states preparing to combat them? >> well, i feel like those are

just empty threats by president putin. he already has lost a significant part of his military and most of the rest is focused on ukraine. so, i'm not quite sure what sort of threat he can prevent. he likes to saber-rattle, he likes to threaten his neighbors to bring them to his will. but i think, with finland and sweden, his failed to do it just like he's failed to do it and ukraine. >> so, now that you are back in ukraine, you had a visit back in ukraine, what does the atmosphere look like they're? how are they planning for next steps, in this russian invasion? >> i can tell you that all of the ukrainian officials i've met with, including, yesterday, president zelenskyy, are absolutely energized and ready to fight as long as it takes to win. they want their territorial

integrity back, they want to push russia out and reclaim their borders, as they were before. they are very energized and motivated to do that. there is no waning of desire or will to win in this battle. i would say -- ukraine, at least in kyiv, there are still missile worn fairly frequently. but, honestly, the ukrainians just go with the flow and are getting back to their lives. part of their lives is, of course, fighting russian aggression, but also small shops are starting to open, restaurants are starting to open, small businesses are starting to operate. the ukrainians are not letting the russians dictate how they live their lives or dictate how they let their city function. kyiv is still not back to the

lively city that it was a few months ago, but life is here and people are working hard to make sure that the city is sustained and that the economy can keep going. >> so, one of the places that has been discussed on how putin might be able to strike back, something that has been on the radar a lot of u.s. politicians, is a possible cybersecurity attack in the united states or another nato countries. do you still see that is a possibility? >> well, russia does have some cyber capabilities. we are working very closely with ukraine, as our other international partners, to help defend ukraine against cyberattacks. but also the broader global western world. so, i know the united states is focused very closely on also making sure that our own cyber defenses are strong, that we are able to know if russia tries to do something and we're able to thwart it.

we are, as we said, working with ukraine but also western europe to ensure that they could do the same. -- russia has not been able to make significant inroads on their cyberattacks, even in ukraine, where they are physically attacking. because of the work of all of us, all the partners and allies, to keep them from doing so. >> kristina kvien, the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine, thank you so much. it's good to hear that ukrainians are trying to get the life back in order, as difficult as it may be. coming, up what does it feel like to win a poll surprise after foot in your heart and soul into a project? take a listen. >> guys, we won a pulitzer! we won a pulitzer, we won a pulitzer for swab! i never even thought of running a pulitzer, and we run a pulitzer! >> maria joins us on her award-winning podcast suave and

changing the face of journalism, when we return. ournalism, when we return this tux. oh, nice. that'll go perfect with these. dude... those are so fire. [whines] only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it. usually. and in it. mostly. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour. what happens when performance...

meets power? you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. >> there are many ways to you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪

report on a story and deliver the news, and a few of those ways fall under the umbrella of what some might call capital jay journalism. that is to say, traditional. not only the room for passion and heart, but it can actually be the missing ingredient to so many stories. just ask veteran journalist

maria hinojosa, who just won a pulitzer for her latest podcast, suave. the podcast is literally 25 years in the making, you heard that. right maria hinojosa and david swab a gonzalez, the namesake of the podcast, first met in 1993 well staying at a correctional institution in pennsylvania. at the time, suave was serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for a crime he committed when he was 17 years old, a minor. they stayed in touch, as a source for other stories on the incarcerated population and then as friends. although the podcast focuses on one, man it is telling the story of thousands of other people sentenced to die in prison for a crime they committed as a minor. suave's got, regiment deeply personal and full of heart. that's what makes it so good. just listen to this exchange at the very start of one of the episodes. >> what's going on? just talk to me. suave, i'm talking to you, what is going on? >> i'm cool. >> suave, forget that maggie is

in the room, forget that -- >> i'm cool, i'm cool. >> yeah, but tell me what just happened? >> i never thought i would be locked up in a room like this again, i'm cool. >> i know your cool, sweetie, you're out of prison. >> i just had a little flashback. >> okay. >> it's too real, it's too real, it's to real. it's, like damn. the reality is, i had a life sentence. there is no parole in the state of pennsylvania for lifers. when you're a life or they say to you, where do you want your body sent to when you die? so, you've got to mentally prepare for the worst. but i made it. i made it out, so, i'm good. >> you're making me cry, actually. the fact that you're having this reaction to this room. it's just a studio, it's a dark little constructed studio. the both of us are crying about

a frogging studio. >> to most people it's probably a studio but to me it's a space where i spent a portion of my life in. >> i'm thrilled to be joined by maria hinojosa, newly minted pulitzer prize winner and founder of ceo f media group and host of suave. maria, i had to tell, you i had to call you when i first heard this. for our audience, it's important to know that you are one of two latinas in history to win a pulitzer and you didn't have an organization that you founded. so, so much kudos to you, maria. i want to ask you, how was it for you to cover this story in a time that, clearly, at one moment he is a subject and then he became a friend? how are you able to differentiate those bases, as a journalist? >> actually, to be honest with you, maria teresa, thank you so much for calling me and having me on the show and celebrating suave with all of us.

it feels like a community win. when suave was in prison, for 31 years, during that time we will be talking i always told, him you can't really be my friend. a friend is someone who is there when you need them. that you can call and just be like, what's up. you can't call someone in prison. so, i always said that, for suave, i was a lifeline, i was a friend but suave wasn't really a friend. he was someone who i, knew i had a relationship, with who was a source. some when i sent christmas cards to. but, now that suave has gotten out, that's where there is more of a friendship, actually. i'm documenting, and suave knows this, we know this, what it's like to actually build a friendship after you've been imprisoned for 31 years. that's part of the documentary work that we're continuing to do. and suave it's such a willing partner and human being, he's now going to be a part of our

team of producers, which is kind of extraordinary. to bring a source and recognize his value as a producer as well. i just feel like what we did was, as you said, we brought heart and the heart connection was through christmas cards. >> maria, what you're talking about is up and in journalism. this idea of bringing a subject into your production company and having him tell stories from a perspective. i think that is extraordinary but also revolutionary. but, at the end, you're also doing old-school journalism with this traditional format. speak to why that is needed and why we, perhaps, need those types of in that conversations now more than ever. >> look, the reality is that the data shows that, overwhelmingly, all of the mainstream media, the buck stops with white, cis men present during heterosexual, of

great means, many of them from the ivy league. i, to, and from the ivy league. many of them are my friends and buddies. but you can't have a journalism that basically, that's the prism through which you see everything. so, when you create a small company like -- and you're just going to do it. i'm 60 minutes, now i have the person that's making these decisions. you do it knowing that we are so fact based journalist, such journalist. we wake up and were journalists. but we also have a lot of possibility to take risks, because it is a small company, a nonprofit supported by human beings and philanthropy. that's how we're able to do this. the risk is not to prove anything, it's just being true to our voice. i think that's what the pulitzer is for. maria teresa, [speaking spanish] . i don't even remember or know that my team had submitted.

that shocked that you see was real -- >> i wanted to ask you about this. what was so compelling to me was when you said we, we want this. i think, that when you said we, it was the people behind the scenes, it was suave, but it was also the community. recognizing that stories are powerful and can could change minds. but there's also the personal aspect of the journey for you. your family had to be a part of this journey. can you speak about this? because, oftentimes, we don't realize all the challenges that journalist put forth to bring these beautiful, intricate stories to life. >> maria teresa, how did you know? right after i was screaming and everything, i wanted to my husband studio, because of course we're still working from home. he's an artist. i just started crying. i was like, look, honey, this is yours. what's human being has a companion area and says sure you can talk to someone convicted of murder and have a call. i was there for the visit, i

trust you. this is a win for my family who sacrificed a lot, because i would always take suave calls. when he called me i'd stop when i was doing and i would talk to suave, so that is a sacrifice. for my fellow journalists, and four out of st. creatives, it is about finding a partner that believes in you and your work so much. and also processing the sacrifices. so, i'm making a lot of external copies for my husband, and spending more time with the family. because this is really a win for them. and suave send it to, the second we had a chance to talk he said you know your husband is the man because i don't know if i could let my life do what you did. >> mucho scratchy asked a ham. and thank you for joining me, pulitzer prize winner maria hinojosa. >> gracia's. >> speaking of journalism, ali

velshi recently had a conversation with margaret atwood, author of the handmade tale. that was eerily prescient, just days before the draft opinion overturning roe v. wade lead to the public. there's an extended version of the conversation streaming exclusively on peacock that didn't air live on velshi, let's take a listen. >> the excuse for all of these laws that you've been talking about it's really a religious one. it's based on a religious belief and let us say here that we must distinguish between a belief, an opinion and actual evidence based factual knowledge. the difference is that you can prove or disprove the third one, but you cannot prove or disprove the first one. a belief is a belief, it's not evidence based. and opinion can be either based on a belief or on a set of

prove-able facts. all of these ideas that a cluster of cells with a human being, a belief. >> let me ask you about what you're thinking to 1985. it's a dystopian novel, it's about a future that could be bad. in this particular, case bad for, women but really bad for everybody. bad for democracy, bad for society. there's some winners on it but it's kind of grim, generally. >> [inaudible] >> do you feel better or worse about the future in 2022 they needed a 1985? >> oh, i would say quite a lot worse. >> catch the rest of that extended version, streaming on peacock right now. and more meetings of the velshi banned book club will be streaming on peacock to. other books elections will be announced every week on twitter. straight, ahead the very latest