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personality mehmet oz, and mccormick. kathy barnette is right now trailing in third place there. we'll have more on the state of the contest, but we'll start with the results of the republican primary race in the pennsylvania governor's contest in which the gop has now doubled down on its pro-insurrection brand by nominating someone who was at the capital on january 6th, someone who faces a subpoena as we speak from the select committee investigating the insurrection and someone who could very well end up under scrutiny for doj for appointing a fake slate of doj electors. that man doug mastriano, he rocked to a primary after a twice-impeached ex-president who endorsed him. pennsylvania's leading far-right figure funding busses to shuttle supporters to the rally on

january 6th 2021, that preceded the attack on the capitol. during his run for governor he has bard the news media from attending his campaign events and the qanon conspiracy theory. it is difficult to understate the potential impact of an insurrectionist running, potentially running one of the country's most important battleground states. nbc news reports this, quote, should mastriano prevail in the general election, he will be able to appoint the secretary of state to oversee elections and his choice would re-set the state's voter rule so everyone would, quote, have to re-register. mastriano may be the election truther and he will not be the last as nbc's vaughn hillyard reports doug mastriano, arizona, carrie lake, michigan, james craig and rebecca kleefisch,

they'd each be tasked with certifying the 2024 election. revealing a republican party that has turned its back on our democracy is where we start. amy stoddard for real clear politics is here, plus the founder of punch bowl news and msnbc political analyst nick sherman is back and also the chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university eddie godd and jonathan lemire and the co-host of way too early. president biden has returned to the themes and public messages that animated his candidacy for the white house after the deadly kkk rally in charlottesville

that resulted in the death of heather heier and in terms of how he talks about his presidency and the other party, talk about what you efrng they're making of this mastriano win in pennsylvania. >> this president has said nothing short that democracy is at stake and those are his words in buffalo i was and part of the pool of reporters that traveled with him there to western new york where he paid tribute to the ten people killed by a gunman fueled by racist ideology, and then we heard from the president call out a need for the gun control, but also denounced the hate to tear apart the democracy and there's no question that is fueled by donald trump and his big lie and we have another republican candidate in states across the country who have been vying for trump's endorsement.

trump mastriano got late in the game, and lou barletta who he defeated was one of the original trumpers. he supported donald trump since 2016 and stayed with him and yet at the end of that race, trump showed no loyalty in return and that's typical and went to the winner instead with mastriano. this white house is concerned because mastriano has reappointed the voter roles who will oversee the election notification in 2024 and we've seen that slow process of trumpists running for governor and secretaries of state, trying to as one white house adviser put it, finish the job in trying to steal the 2020 election, they'll be far better positioned in the inside in state governments this time around in 2024. that's the concern and that's why so many democrats want to

hear more from the president like he said yesterday. even if this is out of his federal powers, he can use the bully pulpit to decry this and mobilize democrats to defeat candidates like mastriano. >> jonathan, you put it so perfectly. it's not about partisan or primary politics. we're not on the air because of the intramural republican primary in pennsylvania captures our attention as the most important story today. this is about the ascending power of a post-trump gop that's against democracy and against a free and fair results of an election and those are the people that are winning and to your points about democrats wanting to see president joe biden forcefully defend the democracy, if not just the democratic candidates running against these folks. it seems like that is a message that this president would be willing to take to the country. >> yeah, and he has before and we heard from him go to the

national constitution center in philadelphia and speak powerfully about the need to protect voting rights. you'll recall in january he traveled to atlanta again making a renewed push for federal legislation to protect the vote. of course, those efforts didn't go anywhere and that's the fear here from democrats or from this white house is there's only so much he can do and there is a sense of real powerlessness with the margins and the senate's 50/50 and the filibuster is not going anywhere and there will not be federal legislation to do this, so therefore all he really has is the sound of his own voice and the power of the bully pulpit and certainly that's what the president has shown that he will carry and there are democrats that are frustrated he's not doing more and as i reported in the last few days, this is a white house that's sharpening his attacks and the time for bipartisanship has made successes and infrastructure and they're dealing with a

republican party that says they don't want to play ball. they don't want to deal with us so we'll make this about contrasts and we'll tell the country how different we are from them, and president biden and rick scott in particular by name and his tax plan, though he hasn't wanted to name yet those espousing the racist replacement theory that fueled the shooter over the weekend. that could change, too. certainly, this is a president that understands what's at stake with the very democracy and i am told we'll hear more about him in the weeks and months ahead. >> amy stoddard, you've counselled democrats to take the message from democracy and something liz cheney talks about in her role as vice chair of the 1/6 committee and frankly in all of her public appearances as she's being challenged now with the backing of kevin mccarthy for telling the truth about 1/6.

the mastriano point, let me show you his take on elections. >> i don't even know how this happened in mark. we could send 50 years ago men to the moon and we can't have a safe, secure election in philadelphia, pennsylvania? what's going on here? it's got to be by design. >> the resolution is we'll take our power back and we'll need support of the leadership of the house and senate and we're getting there on that. >> hold it. hold it. i think we have breaking news. >> you're saying you'll get a joint resolution to go forward and the republicans control the house and the senate to go forward to basically take the power back from the secretary of state and put it in the state legislature to put forward the electors? >> that is exactly what we're going to do. the governor comes out and says no fraud, nothing to see here and the secretary-general picked biden so from the get go there was a problem. >> none of that was true.

the vote there was recounted. there were at least 16 lawsuits brought by rudy giuliani who actually located himself in pennsylvania, lucky pennsylvanians along with his kabal for a while and they went before judge after judge after judge. they could not prove the allegations that mastriano has now ridden to victory in the state. how do you fight? because it's easy for us to say it, it's probably hard to do on the ground. how do you fight the disinformation that had the gripped the republican party and those riding it to victory last night? >> well, that will be a challenge and it has been since the early morning hours after the election in 2020 when donald trump tried to tell everyone he'd won and it was being stolen by fake votes that they were finding in, you know, special boxes in suitcases and it was all a hoax. josh shapiro who is running to be the democratic -- he's the

democratic nominee for governor was helping as attorney general prosecute these crazy cases that giuliani lost and would be a very effective messenger fighting against this disinformation. >> the things mastriano said, he is a dream candidate for donald trump and lou barletta, the former congressman as donald trump points out could not secure the endorsement of former president trump because he wasn't the big liar like mastriano was the big liar of the big lies. he took six busloads of truthers to the january 6th rally. he tried to steal the 2020 election. he intends to steal the 2024 election. democrats might want to hear from joe biden, the president, on this. i think we want to hear from republican candidates across the country about whether or not they're supporting doug mastriano. they have their panties in a bunch about this.

they don't know what to say yet. there are reporting from politico that leaders in the republican party in pennsylvania and key donors are going to back josh shapiro, the democrat because mastriano is so crazy and he'll be a dragdown ballot from oz or mccormick and potentially members of congress. i'm looking forward to see what mcconnell has to say and we will learn who will back this big liar of all big liars and it's going to cost the party. >> i mean, you're such a nut that you're going to drag dr. oz as sort of the headline in all that. i want to share with you, jake sherman that our friends at the bull work write today. remember how mitch mcconnell put it after stating clearly indefinitely that trump was morally responsin for january 6th? the democrats will take care of the son of of a bitch for us. mcconnell is wrong.

they didn't because republicans couldn't bring themselves to side with the democrats for one vote on the basic issue of protecting our democracy. now trump is all, but guaranteed to be the 2024 republican nominee. republicans are still feeling cheeky about how shapiro will win this in a lock that shapiro will take care of a son of a bitch for us and they're cleaning their own house for them. i know you're reporting constantly details the view from inside these rooms that mccarthy gets a standing ovation for saying these things and not acting on them that trump was responsible for january 6th and had to go, but because he didn't act on them he retained the support of his caucus. in this case, if democrats are able to do what jonathan is reporting they would like -- the president and the party to do, and if mastriano does prove a drag on the ticket, what is the

view from inside, not what they will do because you've made clear and i think you've been proven right. they will do nothing, but how would they feel about an insurrectionist winning the nomination? >> i think on the bull works point i didn't catch who wrote that piece, but i actually think, and i'm in the minority here perhaps. i actually think the january 6th committee and this is based on reporting conversations that i've had, i think it's going to be quite damning and quite damaging to trump i think it will be far more cogent and coherent because we've seen congressional investigations in the past get away from themselves. there are a million examples and probably the mueller report is the best example of that and we don't have to go over all of that again. i think the january 6th committee when they do their

report and hearings, it will be quite damaging to the republican party and specifically for the trump administration, that's number one. that's number two. what we reported this morning, republicans are not only sitting pretty at the moment. they're sitting probably prettier politically than they've sat in 12 years, and i'd say right now the republican party, the same republican party that we just talked about that has not lifted a finger against trump is up eight points in the generic battle in battleground states is the average and the unnamed democrat in crucial districts by eight points. now why is that such a big deal? on its face, eight points is a lot, but when you consider the democrats have a built-in four-point advantage on the generic ballot, it means that republicans are not only winning right now in the house which is

the base of the trump support, but they're winning overwhelmingly. so their theory of the case, let's not talk about trump. let's not talk about january 6th. let's talk about inflation and the dynamics being played out on the economy. it's being rewarded for their silence on trump and on january 6th and and i think it's important to internalize for people because that shows that this kind of misbehavior is being rewarded and it is misbehavior because i will say january 6th was a violent attack insurrection on the capitol for which nobody really, besides the folks outside the capitol, nobody has truly been held responsible. now to john's point, i -- i trust john's reporting a thousand percent, and i think it makes sense that the president would take a sharper line against people who promote

racist theories and things of that nature. i don't know -- i'm not saying it would have an impact and i don't know what that impact would be. if democrats want to change this in this election to whatever they want to change it to, they need to start. they need to start today because at this point with the data that we have, this is dccc internal polling and republican internal polling and democrats are getting absolutely trounced in the districts that matter most to retaining or limiting their losses in the house. we look like, based on this polling that we reported on this morning, we look like we're shaping up to have a night with republicans taking dozens of seats in the house of representatives and not withstanding. this is again, two years after the most significant attack on our democrat see, on our capitol

that was undoubtedly, i don't care what people say on twitter, it was undoubtedly encouraged by the president of the united states who said let's march to the capitol and that people walked to the capitol, if you're someone who cares about repercussions, these are troubling data points. >> so that is probably right now the likeliest scenario. democrats won't succeed in changing the conversation, and they need to arg knowledge that the storyline, and to kids hospitalized today and believed to be associated with the difficult nature of getting your hands on baby formula in the united states of america 2022 or democrats can decide to, you know, roll the dice and say maybe people want to live in a

democracy ore maybe we'll try that message because it's not going to be worse. when i worked in politics your 32% working on "larry king live," maybe it will help, maybe one person watching will think more of you, but i guess my question for you, eddie, is if you want to take a different question that the broader country or a broader frame for the country, it seems to me that there's a bigger question to ask americans. what mastriano prove side that the things that trump, and he wasn't allowed into the pennsylvania republicans' final events. the thing that trump played cutesie about qanon. what's qanon? it reported to not go down for which is inciting a deadly insur

insurrection. donald trump doesn't think that's a good story for donald trump, but the hook for the republicans is that they helped. cassidy hutchinson testified in a transcript that may or may not be on its way to doj. we don't know. the 20 republicans in the white house were part of the plan. it seems to me, eddie, if you want to make the election more about baby formula and the election you have a runway to do so. >> absolutely, nicole. i agree with you 100%. it seems to me that it makes all of the sense in the world to paint the republican party and those who identify with it as in some ways committed to a kind of liberal agenda. >> these people were clearly anti-democratic in their idea ol ye and antidemocratic in the effects of what they've done over the course that hide in so

many years and he's participated. >> we know he's against covid mitigation policies. that means a million people who are dead, he doesn't give a damn about. in he's a poster child of christian nationalists we talked about right? what does it mean that we're talking about issues, policies that matter to everyday folks? we have to. we can walk and chew gum at the same time, but we have to at the same time say we are concerned about these issues, but these people, they are a danger to the very framework of our democracy such that we can't even get off the ground to address those issues and we become complicit in this, shall we say, avalanche that threatens to overwhelm the foundation of the republic. >> yeah. we need all of you to stick around. when we come back, i want to

turn to pennsylvania's too much maga to go around, maga world, senate primary race. it's still too close to call. the ex-president is advising his chosen candidate to claim victory and throwing around baseless accusations of cheating. we'll go live for a report on what voters had top of mind yesterday. plus, whoever wins that nomination will face john fetterman. he's a unique democratic candidate that doesn't fit into the usual political molds. is he the face of an evolving party who will need to come out swinging to beat back the radicals there? later in the program the january 6th select committee not yet ready to share fully what they've learned with the justice department. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" returns after a quick break. don't go anywhere. returns after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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battle for pennsylvania senate is still too close to call with republican voters split, torn between trump-endorsed celebrity dr. oz and hedge fund executive dave mccormack. they spent millions of there ares attacking each other and living in other state, not pennsylvania. about 20,000 mail-in ballots are still to be counted and the race will likely end up in a recount and about kathy barnette, after a really surprising and jarring last-minute surge of support we talked about here, she's now more than not points behind oz or mccormick and still a third-place finish for the denier and january 6th supporter.

dasha burns. you had great reporting on how she was surging and what is your theory of how she ended up in third place, dasha? >> a couple of factors at play here, nicole. the months and months and millions and millions of dollars pent by both oz and mccormick attacking each other on television, and this is why the voters i've been talking about here for months have been so confused and undecided and many of them until the very last minute and that opened the door for the third candidate to come in and provide a bit of an alternative. she also did ride the wave of the supreme court leak on roe v. wade. she had a staunch stance on abortion, her mother was raped at 11 years old and that is why she holds the beliefs that she holds and people do come out and vote on that issue. i'll tell you, today i've had

fascinating conversations with voters and that shows you anecdotally why we're here and why we still don't have a report and why it's so darn close. i've been talking to voters for months. for example, bruce fein, and he was very skeptical of oz and didn't feel that he represented pennsylvania values and wasn't from the state and didn't feel he could relate to the average pennsylvanian. i called him this morning. guess what he told me? he cast his ballot for oz. >> why? >> he said he wasn't expecting to do so. he voted at the last minute, and thought there has to be a reason why trump supported him. similar story, and she was leaning toward mccormick, actually and she watched the

trump rally held for oz and after that, started leaning towards oz again and trump called in to an oz rally and bashed mccormick and bashed barnette and lo and behold, she and her husband wound up voting for oz. a gentleman named ken. we met ken at an oz rally where he was interested in oz, but more interested in barnette and just a couple of hours ago he wound up voting for mccormick. >> wow. why did he vote for mccormick? it was an electablity kind of vote. i'll tell you, voters have just been so confused and there's been so much on the air and there's been so much on the internet and they've had a very hard time wading through this all and most of the people i talked to didn't make their final decision at the very last minute here, nicole. >> dasha burns, your reporting

there has just been stellar, in a league of its own. i think we'll be talking to you and calling on you often. a.b., jonathan are here are trump advisers are inside the wasp's nest. even fox news in prime is divided between oz and mccormick. mccormick is the husband of dina powell, donald trump's second most senior policy adviser. dina powell still close to the ex-president's daughter and son-in-law, ivanka and don junior. just explain this mash pit within maga world? >> i think it's viper's nest. either image would apply here and this was a lot of jockeying

among these three candidates all vying for donald trump's endorsement. you just outlined, also, with dina powell and also ex-trump staffers, hope hicks and others also joined that campaign, and trying to, frankly, a pretty blatant effort to win trump's endorsement and mccormick who spent much of his life and a much more mainstream republican shifted pretty right himself and embraced a lot of trumpist beliefs in order to win that endorsement and to be more palatable to the deep red voters in pennsylvania, but that did not get the endorsement and trump went to the biggest celebrity in the race and that's what tipped the scales in his direction, as well. in his case, dr. oz and it's a problematic endorsement for oz in pennsylvania and leesburg, pennsylvania and a pretty republican area and any time oz

showed the image on the screen the trump booed and in fact, kathy barnett may have been the most trumpist of the group, but some of her previous stances, notably her anti-islamic beliefs were complimentary of her in a statement said it was a bright future and he backed oz and now we wait and see who wins. it is a razor-thin margin and it seems safe that barnett will stay third. oz and mccormick is a few thousand votes is the difference, and i think there is some irony here considering how much the former president of the united states donald trump railed against mail-in ballots and it is the mail-in ballots that will wage here and just to declare victory which is what he did in 2020. >> so, jake, i take all your points about the structural dynamics of the coming elections

in which they'll be held, but mcconnell backed mccormick. is he watching this closely or does he not care? he'll rely on those wins? >> no, i mean, the senate republican leadership is watching this very closely. i think they've indicated they'd be comfortable with oz or mccormick, and i think they view this in a very different way than trump does, nicole. it couldn't be more different and mcconnell only cares about electing a candidate who can win, and i don't think he thought kathy -- i don't think the republican leadership thought kathy barnett would be able to win, but she surged too late, i think, for their operation to get it to snap into gear to do anything about her, and they didn't have to do anything about her anyway, but they view this through the lens of who can win, number one and who will be less problematic in the senate for the leadership to handle, and i think that they

believe either mccormick or oz. oz has done rounds up here on capitol hill, nicole and many senate leadership folks have met with oz and feel he would be a problem for them and that's how they view this. can you win? will you be a problem for me? will you be a problem in doing the problem and tackling of government and raising the debt ceiling and funding the government. by the way, we as the media and whatever we are, prognosticators completely misjudged a lot of these republican candidates on that -- on that kind of definition. we thought tommy tuberville would be this giant thorn in the side for mitch mcconnell and he's been in lockstep with republicans in washington since he got up here. so i think that's kind of the frame through which they look at this. >> jake sherman, i have more reporting to do. thank you so much for sharing your reporting and your insights here today. a.b., i want to come to you on

something that jake says is more structural and i don't know if it's a strategy or a reflex, but you've got trump already calling on his hand-picked guy to just claim victory. the disdain process of free and fair elections with integrity is already being stomped on by donald trump. i mean, i don't know how many more times we can warn the country and give examples of a, b, c, d, all of the way to z and here it is again. the person that donald trump endorses wins the primary is not a problem like doug mastriano is for the entire ticket and the entire party in pennsylvania and the prospects of that battle ground for republicans in 2024 and the next presidential election and if the candidate is not a problem. if the establishment believes that mccormick and oz can play

ball then trump is the problem because if he doesn't get who he wants he's either going to play the big lie and not endorse mccormick or he's going to stay quiet and then slip either later in the season, comments like it was -- it was rigged and mccormick is a globalist and he's the same as a democrat anyway which he already did in georgia many months ago when he told people to rally that basically electing stacy abrams who was the same as re-electing brian kemp. so mitch mcconnell and those in the dwindling republican establishment i think are in for a summer of pain because it's either a loon like mastriano or a reasonable candidate this trump either doesn't get behind or flagrantly defies in the general election. they don't know what he's going to do, and he is going to help democrats. we don't know how much or where, but on the margins, he definitely will. >> that's a great point.

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issues. it really is two different sides of the coin. >> that was gisele fedderman on "morning joe" given the differences between her husband john fedderman between the senate and the republicans. the one-term lieutenant governor who dominated the race with nearly 60 days of the vote just days after suffering a stroke and hours after receiving a pacemaker is a very different kind of democrat. he's one that the party did not pick or predict, but it now sees promise in his uncommonly and unpartisan approach to policy relate ability and voter outreach. they hope he and give the party a major and decisive win in the senate contest against his potential red wave that sherman is talking about. president joe biden said this, democrats are united around john who is a strong nominee, who will win a tough race and he can win in november and while we

await the results of the gop primary, one thing is clear. these candidates are not your father's gop. they have fought a malicious, chaotic primary campaign to be the most extreme and they have shown people their authentic selves that whoever emerges will be too dangerous, too craven and too extreme to represent pennsylvania in the u.s. senate. let's bring in our conversation, the reverend al sharpton host of msnbc's "politics nation" and he's with us on set. eddie is still around. so let me back up from sort of the fetterman race and just ask you about the state. it does give us this vivid, fresh example of what the republican party is, not that any of us here have lost sight of it, but i wonder if you think that helps democrats were sharpen their message in november. >> whether they do it is always the problem.

>> why? >> because i have for the life of me never been able to figure out why somebody who politically steps in the ring and busts you in the mouth why you're afraid to fire back, but just the reluctance of some of the democrats to really go to battle when there is no mid ground. i mean, we're going into the second year of the biden administration and not one republican would even break on a vote in the senate. so at what points do you stop this fantasy of bipartisanship by those that are extreme in the republican party, that have seen to successfully hold hostage the moderates to where you're just going to have to go for it? and i think they have the opportunity to go for it with the voters this november if they take them on. when you look at what has happened on the call with the women's right to choose, with this leaked memo of what this opinion may be leading to in the

june decision of the supreme court. when you look at what's happened in buffalo when i'm on my way. all of these things are things people are passionate about, and that's where you have to turn people on to turn them out and i'm not saying you should politically exploit them. these are the things that you claim to represent, but if you don't aggressively show the difference between you and them, and those of us fighting the cause will not get people in office that are at least on our side of the issue. >> there's time to fix it, and i guess this is the frustrating part of the conversation for 44 minutes. i mean, the republican party has sent or has at least nominated in the case of mastriano an insurrectionist. >> right. someone who was at the january 6th insurrection and he participated in the actual coup plot, the fake electors' slate. the republicans haven't denounced him. they're not sure what to do

about him and no one has attacked him or criticized him. the replacement theory conspiracy is being -- there was a mass shooting committed and a racist rampage to place on saturday in this country. it's wednesday. >> right, and instead of, you know still being in shock and the repercussions of the heinous crime. you haven't moved on. you're going there and the president was there yesterday, and that shooter shared -- the shooter was responsible for the shooting, but he shared an ideology with the most watched host on fox news. >> right. >> not a single republican that i have seen has said he'll never appear on that show anymore. how do you hold the republicans accountable for what they're doing in plain sight. >> if you're not challenged then you will continue to do it. i'll give chuck schumer yesterday. he did yesterday. you need to start saying that you will not tolerate this kind of behavior in the biden politics and there are some

things that are out of bounds. the right wing will denounce democrats for dealing with democrats who have been mainstream activists and they said oh, no. these guys are extreme or they did something or said something 30 years ago. we're talking about people that did things last night and they did not denounce them and question them and we don't take them to task, and i think we've got to tell the democratic party that we cannot be, for lack of a better term, the political punks of 2022. >> eddie, the minute i stopped believing that it can all change is the minute that this show stops because i do think it is so early for many, many months. we weren't talking about baby formula a month ago. so much can happen, but my question for you is the republican party is now being led by its voters. we know from the tapes that "the new york times" reporter shared

that kevin mccarthy see it the same way all of us do, they're galled by it, and they don't have the you know what to say it or deal with it publicly. they see their voters are leading all of their decisions. i think the democratic base is ready to have this fight, to be reassured that one of the two parties stands for democracy and stands for a free press and would never ban as doug mastriano did and why can't the democratic voters leave their party to a more aggressive posture? you know, this is a question i've been trying to answer myself and maybe it has something to do with the reticence and the recklessness of the party leaders and it has something to do with the consulting class and it may be a carry over of the third way that is the democratic leadership conference and it's a complex answer, nicole. i'm sitting here thinking about the conversation over the course of the show. i know we have to talk about the

horse race, but how we're talking about it and the ways in which we're -- in some ways normalizing these liberal actors is so dangerous to me, and i'm thinking of the way in which folks are talking about fetterman and his candacy and what's underneath it and the way they're talking about tim ryan and what's underneath that. these are different democrats and they're appealing to that particular voter that can hold off the red wave. we know exactly who they're talking about. here we have, again, the way in which race, the underbelly of race is dictating our politics in very interesting ways and in some ways moves the democratic party about. how do we respond to those working-class white voters who are disaffected. how do we get them to vote for us? we can't go too far in our condemnation because one if three americans believe in race replacement theory.

part of the reason is to understand how complicated it is on the ground and how complicit our attention to the political process, i'm not saying that well. how complicit sometimes our description of political processes happen to be with the very ways in which race overdetermines so much of our politics itself, if that makes sense. >> no, it does. i shire your views. i think i share the horse race and polls in the coverage about them. we'll try to make this a place where we cover this responsibly. we have to sneak in a break. stick around. we'll be right back. a break. stick around we'll be right back. my mental health was much better.

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i just want to travel some distance in -- do you still have hope that the questions that people are asking in november can be questioned where it is obvious that the democratic party is the only one for saving our democracy, for protecting the rights? do you still think the questions can be reframed ahead of the midterms? >> i think the questions can be refrained but i do not have faith they'll be refrained -- reframed by the leadership of the party. i think those of us that represent certain things that need to be dealt with like the racial and biased attacks across the board, blacks and latinos and jews and asians, we've got to a's those issues and women's groups have to raise those issues. if we sit back and wait for the party to do it, the party didn't lead the civil rights movement.

or the women's movement or the anti-war movement. i think -- >> the movement led the politics. >> the movement led the politics and the party had to catch up with all of us and i think that's what is going to happen in 2022. as we see -- we're living in a time, nicolle, where in my parents -- grandparents' time you had the ku klux klan. even they would cover themselves with hoods. now you have racial terrorists that livestream themselves killing us. there's no shame. it's like let me show you what i'm doing and it's me. this is more dangerous than it was when they were lynching us and at least would cover themselves with hoods. we can't afford to sit back and wait on some precinct captain or some weak member of the established democratic party to speak up when we're getting livestreamed lynched in broad daylight and they are trying to weigh whether they're going to

offend some imaginary voter that isn't going to vote for them anyway. >> you both answered different questions with the same conclusion and i guess my question to you, eddie, what does that conversation look like? who leads it and how do we have it here? >> well, you know, obviously activists have to lead it. i think you do this work. people in the media, we have to do it. the president has to use his bully pulpit. i keep thinking and have said it before, we have to condemn the horror of those who hold replacement theory or whatever the hell they're calling it these days, those that promulgate it on their television shows and alike. we have to understand it's easy to attack the loud racists. remember, he's identifying -- this community, because it's in buffalo. and buffalo is the seventh most segregated city in the united states. he's identifying this particular place because black people,

31.something percent are living under the poverty line. he's attack it because tops is a special place because prior to it coming there it was a food desert. we live our lives daily in such a way that reproduce the understanding that some ought to be valued more than others. there is a spectrum, nicolle, from that person who committed that insane, murderous act to these people who are criticizing all the stuff that we think a multiracial democracy entails. we have to understand how commit sit our daily lives are in the production of this monstrosity and this evil. >> eddie, do you -- do you -- and i don't like to ask if you're optimistic. i want to put it a different way. do you still hope we can have that conversation ahead of november and end up in the right place? >> we have to have it. >> yeah. >> otherwise, the republic is many doed. we have to have it. i can't be hopeful in that

sense, right. you know, we have to have it or the republic is done. >> but i think we also must remember, look at 2020, it was the movement around george floyd and others that drove the turnout that put biden in and that brought the senate democratic seats -- >> to georgia. >> -- to georgia and the democratic party didn't lead that. we all led that george floyd movement and i think that's what's going to happen now and i think buffalo and i think the supreme court is going to be the impetus of it. >> let's keep having that conversation here. rev, eddie, thanks for spending time with us. when we come back how the january 6th committee is responding to that request we told you about yesterday for interview transcripts from doj. don't go anywhere. doj don't go anywhere. it's the number one heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists. entresto was proven superior at helping people stay alive

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the reality is, we are conducting our own investigation. and obviously if they want to come and talk, they're perfectly welcome to come and talk, and we have talked to them on other

situations, but we can't give them full access to our product. that would be premature at this point because we haven't completed our own work. >> wow, hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. that was january 6th select committee chairman bennie thompson giving detail on that block buster reporter that broke, news that the justice department requested transcripts 6 interviews the january 6th committee conducted in its sprawling investigation into the deadly insurrection. that news first reported by "the new york times" which writes this, quote, the move is further evidence of the wide ranging nature of the department's criminal inquiry into the events leading up to the assault on the capitol and the role played by mr. trump and his allies as they sought to keep him in office after his defeat in the 2020 election. the reporting of the doj's request is a sign that attorney general merrick garland is

following through with what he told the public back in january as he faced mounting criticism that the justice department had not taken enough action against those responsible for the insurrection. >> the justice department remains committed to holding all january 6th perpetrators at any level accountable under law, whether they were present that day or were otherwise criminally responsible for the assault on our democracy. we will follow the facts wherever they lead. >> but as you heard at the top in the committee chairman bennie thompson the congressional panel is not yet ready or willing to indiscriminately hand over transcripts. while the committee wants to make sure we are supporting the work of the department of justice, we also have our own institutional equities that have to be weighed and as the chairman points out, simply

turning over files is not the way to win those equities. they will have to be weighed in a specific case-by-case basis. the committee has made clear it is still working forcefully gathering more information and more testimony especially as it awaits for responses to the subpoenas it issued to five house republicans last week and preparing for public hearings that are set to get under way in a month. today we learned of one person's testimony that is not being sought, ex-president donald trump. nbc news reports house investigators are unlikely to call him to testify in explaining the committee's thinking, chairman thompson says this, quote, we're not sure that the evidence we can receive could be any more validated with his presence. i think the concern is whether or not he would add any more value with his testimony. but the chairman did not rule out calling for testimony from former vice president mike pence. testimony from pence would be significant, that the committee is still speaking with his

lawyers. he said it is unclear whether pence will eventually sit for an interview. politico reports this, quote, pence could serve a unique role to the panel, as he could function as both a witness to attempts to overturn the election as well as a victim since he was targeted by trump supporters who attacked the capitol to prevent congress from certifying joe biden's election. and that is where we start the hour with some of our most favorite reporters and friends, neal katyal is back, former acting u.s. solicitor general, now a georgetown law professor bus luke broadwater who broke that story 24 hours ago and eugene daniels is here, white house correspondent for politico, the co-author of "playbook," also an msnbc contributor. this was the conversation that sort of broke into our programming yesterday and consumed i think about a half of it and i wonder if the committee's response, thompsons

this? >> right after the story broke, bennie thompson went out to the reporters and said basically like we're not going to turn everything over to the justice department. we're going to go case by case with them. this is part of a negotiation. my understanding is there are certain things they want from the justice department. they view this as sort of a coequal branch of government. we can share some things with you if you share some things with us but we're not going to do all the work do these 1,000 interviews and turn them over to you, no questions asked about getting anything in return, so this letter functioned as sort of an initial entry to this negotiation and now they'll be getting down into the weeds about exactly which interviews

do you want to see and what can you give us in return? but, you know, i think a lot of the base is going to want to see the january 6th committee cooperate fully with the justice department and give them as much evidence as possible. the base wants to see aggressive investigations from the justice department and i don't think they want to see the committee slowing things down so, you know, this is a delicate political dance for the members. they do a lot of work, gather a lot of evidence, do want to get information to the justice department but also don't want to slow down anyone's investigation. >> luke, what kinds of things could the committee be seeking from doj and if it's not, you know, the specifics, what kinds of things would they want help with? >> you know, i've asked that several times and haven't gotten a very clear answer but i was told justice is further along on some aspects of the investigation than the committee

and has more insight into certain avenues. this may well be where some the rioters or extremist, you know, they're very in-depth dimes and criminal investigations there, so it may well be they're looking into that part of the justice department probe and maybe justice is a month or two months ahead of what a committee is at -- it could be a shortcut for the committee to get some of that information. i'm speculating here because i haven't gotten a good answer on that, but justice is further ahead than the committee in certainly some aspects of the investigation. >> well, and, neal, let me bring you in. luke and his colleagues have reported that in those cases related to 1/6 for the insurrectionists themselves, the insurrectionists were being asked questions that tied, you know, at least some of their motive or understanding of what they were doing to trump and pence, you know, and if i'm muddling that at all, luke, jump in.

but i believe some of the questioning had started to inch a couple of months ago, by late february to whether or not they were there because they believed it was what trump wanted them to do and probing any of those connections. i wonder what you think the committee might want in return from doj before it turns over transcripts. >> well, you know, i wasn't one of these people, nicolle, who yesterday thought this was the most momentous story ever. luke's story was great and important but part of the reason, congress wants to protect its work product for now and not turn everything over and engage in this kind of food fight about who gets to see what, when, and so, you know, one thing that perhaps the justice department is ahead of congress on is internal executive branch communications like from jeff clark, the guy who is trying to lobby to be the attorney general, the justice department presumably has an easier time getting those records than does the different branch of government. so it might be that that's what congress is trying to get at.

i mean, my view on this, there's going to be this food fight for awhile but ultimately all this information is going to be shared with the justice department so it's a when question, not an if question. we're not dealing with something like the trump's white house which is, you know, trying to stonewall investigators at every turn. the justice department obviously needs this information, criminal prosecution is the most important function here and so they'll get it. so to me this story was significant, luke's story because it confirms what the justice department has been telegraphing between the lines which is, hey, our investigation is a lot broader than what some of the reporting says. this suggests it is broader but it doesn't mean that the investigation itself has moved on and information has been shared. it will, not yet. >> so what -- can you just give us the source of examples where inside doj they would want something that they couldn't go get themselves? i mean, is it really a time-saving measure, or is it really something they haven't

probed yet? why would they want all the transcripts from the 1/6 committee, neal? >> because they haven't done that work themselves. in an ordinary criminal prosecution with some little layer of congress involved, it's the justice department that wants to go first. that's the ordinary rule and for really important reasons, congress sometimes messes up investigations, think about oliver north where they immunized witnesses and that undid the criminal prosecution later on. it tainted things and so generally that's the justice department's role is to say, we'll go first, we'll investigate. here that didn't happen. now, it might not have happened because this isn't like any other congressional investigation. this among the most serious congressional investigations ever in the history of the congress. you've got really experienced federal prosecutors who know how not to mess up a prosecution working for congress here. so you could imagine that what's going on here is that the

justice department made a concerted decision, will let congress go first, it's a bipartisan committee and let them gather the information and we'll look at it after they get it. that would be unusual to be sure, nicolle, but it is certainly a possibility and it's certainly something that people like me who really do believe trump acted as -- in a grave threat to the rule of law in this country, we hope that's what the justice department is doing is just waiting, getting congress' information and assimilating it with their own. >> let me play for you what liz cheney thinks the criminal conduct under scrutiny should be. >> these nonprivileged texts are further evidence of president trump's supreme dereliction of duty during those 187 minutes and mr. meadows' testimony will bear on another key question before this committee, did donald trump through action or inaction corruptly seek to

obstruct or impede congress' official proceedings to count electoral votes? >> neal, i guess the question i want to press you on and understand is that the question before the committee, whether trump through action or inaction corruptly sought to obstruct or corrupt congress' official proceedings or is congresswoman asking that because she believes that as you do that doj isn't? >> well, it is a question before the committee and it should be before the committee whether or not there's a belief that the justice department is looking at it or not. it's perfectly within the purview of the committee to do that, in effect, after she made that statement, the committee itself filed a brief in federal court saying we believe that donald trump did do those things, to corruptly on rukt an official proceeding and a federal judge in california very respected one agreed and said it's more likely than not that trump violated these statutes, so what the committee has done is basically look at that question, gather at least some of the evidence, present it to a

judge and what we're going to hear in june is further evidence about that but also about a broader set of question, not just about trump's involvement but others in the january 6th attack. >> so let me read you something that maggie haberman tweeted. former meadows' aide cassidy hutchinson went back for a third interview today. members of congress hutchinson said had discussions of overturning the many election. andy biggs, debbie lesco, mo brooks, matt gaetz, marjorie tailor green, louie gohmert and lauren boebert. the usual suspects plus. i wonder, eugene, if you think that this sort of news that luke broke but that we don't know

additional information about, if that changes the calculations for any members in terms of how they deal with the january 6th committee or if you think those were sort of hardened. >> i think for the folks that you -- especially a lot of folks you just mentioned, nicolle, they're probably hardened to that idea, right? these are folks who don't want to be seen as being cooperative, whether that's with the doj or whether that's with the january 6th committee. i will say obviously the department of justice can charge whereas the committee in congress cannot and so they don't have as much leeway to not participate if the doj wanted that participation. i think something that's really interesting here is that for months and months folks in the white house, democrats at large have kind of been grumbling that they wanted the justice department to move quicker. they wanted to see the justice department do an investigation that was tougher and what luke and his colleagues have broken

proves that they have been doing that this entire time, right? that, you know, you saw the attorney general make that promise that they were going to follow the facts wherever they may lead and they've been doing that and so the white house, folks in the white house that you talk to today after this stuff has broken are saying this is, you know, are breathing a sigh of relief because they have been wanting to make sure that this is taken as seriously as possible especially because they believe that the president believes all his aides believe this is much bigger than just one election, right. they are thinking further ahead. and they know that congress doesn't have the power to throw people in jail. they're hoping that the doj is able to find something to make sure that this doesn't happen again. not just, you know, punish the folks who did it in -- on january 6th but also make sure that this doesn't happen again because it's something that is dangerous for this democracy. >> you know, eugene, we spent a lot of time in the last hour covering the primaries and the participation and cheerleading of the insurrection and then the

broader effort to install people who believe the lie about election fraud which is that donald trump actually won but bill barr was in on some conspiracy with the biden campaign i guess to make it not han. it's so wacky it's hard to share on planet earth but important for these conversations to be rooted in what's happening on the other side. 48 states are looking at 400 laws to restrict the right to vote based on that wacky lie that there was fraud, that attorney general bill barr didn't catch and profused to prosecute and chris krebs just let go as the chief of alex perez securities in 200. that has seeped in and the lie about fraud represents a graver threat to our democracy now ahead of 2022 and 2024 than it did in 2020, so i guess my question, eugene, is on these twin probes, both the january 6th committee and whatever doj is doing that we don't have a great picture of, are they

looking to protect democracy from the future? i mean i know that's not doj's mission in any context except the most opaque national security one but how does that change with the 1/6 committee produces at the end? >> yeah, as they continue to see folks like doug mastriano in pennsylvania, an election denier, what is the governor of pennsylvania going to do if president biden were to win in 2024, were to win his state? right, i talked to an aide in the white house about that today. that is a concern they have. that concern is also shared with folks on the january 6th committee. it was unclear, i think, you know a. a little bit last year. people were trying not to believe that the big lie had infiltrated as much of the electorate and more importantly the candidates on the republican side and is becoming clearer and clearer as we continue through the midterm and the primary season that it's in there and

that one of the big winners, i guess if you were to call it that, that we've seen over last night and over the last few weeks is that people who believe in the big lie, people who are anti-democratic and want to, one, still overturn the 2020 election and who have basically shown us that they -- if effected, you know, whether that is this a secretary of state position, whether that's as governor. >> yeah. >> they would do whatever they can to make sure that their guy wins, their guy or gal wins, that is not how democracy is supposed to work. people on the january 6th committee understand that and they are hoping, especially as they do those primetime hearings, most importantly that they're able to tell the american people that. so as the voting goes, as -- especially in the general election, as the voting happen, people understand that this danger is still around and more importantly it's much more dangerous moving forward. >> you know, i wonder, luke, if you have any sense that liz cheney sees her choices in any

way like that sliding doors movie, right? she decides to stand with democracy. she gets purged from republican leadership and now at odds with the ascendant energy in the party that she and her father before her have served their whole lives. what is your sense of sort of the key missions for the public hearings as they're obviously in one of their final investigative pushes but getting ready to take this case to the country? >> you know, i've talked with congresswoman cheney about this very subject and she -- she really views it as a mission to sort of save the party. she's hard heartened when she does see candidates win against rivals who embrace the big lie, you know, that doesn't always happen in these primaries, in fact, trump seems to be winning many more than he loses but there are certain governors who won easily against trump backed

candidates or governors who are denigrated by trump who have won and she thinks the republican party can be saved if they can convince enough people to stick with the truth and to reject these lies, these conspiracy theories and, you know, you have that again this week when she put out the statement about replacement theory, condemning that and saying the party needs to condemn this stuff. it can't just turn the other way and look away and fund raise off and purge the craziness and encourage the hate and bigotry but she's -- her voice is getting fewer and fewer. people like liz cheney in the barth, it seems, and so these hearings are a chance for her to roll out the evidence that she has found on this committee and try to run back some segment of the party and i do think she thinks that a strong republican party is necessary for american democracy to be successful and

we're even hearing democrats say that, pelosiization said that recently so there are a lot of people who even on the democratic side they are rooting for liz cheney to bring back the party from trump if that can be done. >> yeah, and i mean i think there are people, you know, we know from your colleagues' tapes, we mow mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy see it the same way but won't say it out loud. it's an incredible moment in this, kneel, luke, eugene, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. when we come back, we'll turn back to last night's primary elections and how they underscore what we've been talking about how extreme and potentially dangerous the republican party is getting in service to the ex-president's lie about the 2020 election. our friend, matthew dowd and cornell bauscher will be our guests after the break. the battle from mariupol may be over. the ukrainian fighters continue to make gains against the russian invaders. and it's starting to dent the kremlin's rock solid

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in terms of warnings having to do with the health of our american democracy, some of yesterday's results are flashing red lights, right? as we mentioned far right republican doug mastriano who was at the united states capitol on january 6th who has advocated for overturning the results of the 2020 election in pennsylvania is now the party's choice for governor there. it is a sign that not only is extremism tolerated in today's

republican party, it is celebrated, lifted up and promoted above others. joining us now is matthew dowd, political strategist and founder of country over party and joining us cornell belcher, president of brilliant corners research. i don't want to start narrowly but widely with both your observations. i'll start with you, cornell. >> you know, i think we spend the show and our conversation about sort of how donald trump is the center of this and how we connect all this back to donald trump. but, i got to tell you for me, he's connected to this and i say that because what i'm seeing now and what i'm feeling now in the country goes back to 2010 when i heard it start slowly and it started to build and it was we're losing our country and

we've got to take back our country and it turned into a scream. we got to take back our country that led to the 2010 election. i think all is within this. donald trump is a strong man or figure head for it but if you look at what happened across the country, in the republican primary, it's uneven -- donald trump's endorsement was uneven but what was clear in the primary results is that people who want to rig the system to overthrow our democracy did very well in the primary last night. >> so, cornell, what is the pushback to that, to what you've diagnosed is out there in the country? >> the pushback to it is -- i hate to be so blunt, nicolle, the country isn't going to get wider unless there is a secret plan you know about. the country isn't going to get wider so we've got to get along, right? you can't take your country back. i mean, this fear of the other

and fear that you're losing power because people of color are growing as a voting population and elections aren't going exactly the way you want it to go, we've got to get beyond because we have to compete as one tribe, not multitribes if we compete and win the future. that sort of a message we have to take out there. i've never been one to bash trump supporters and call them bad people or evil people or even -- but what i will say to them is there got to be an understanding, you know what, it can't be you versus me or america is going to lose. >> yeah, i mean, matt, look, you tell me what you saw yesterday. we'll go from there. >> well, i'm going to probably go on with what cornell says. i think the sooner we get off the trump candidates won or lost the better and more accurate of an assessment of what's going on.

for me i will trace it back earlier than 2010. it's -- i actually think you saw elms of this in 2008 and it really, really started to begin in many ways in the mid '90s as fox news launched in 1996 and had started appealing to a certain audience and then more and more and more appealed to that audience and changed the republican primary. nicolle, you know as well as anybody on in that in 2008, sarah palin for all her craziness and outrageousness and she was trump before trump was trump in all her stuff, she was drawing bigger crowds among republicans than john mccain, the nominee was. and when i saw that and she said outrageous stuff and all kinds of crazy stuff but republicans loved her and so that to me was you started to see signs of the precursor and i think the sooner we get off that element and

understand that this is a fight that's much bigger than many democrats have been prepared to fight in this, i think the arguments over policy points and all that need to become -- go into the rearview mirror and need to raise the race to our freedom and rights are at stake and who we are as a country is fundamentally at stake. all people can argue about ideologies and dogmas and argue about some specific policy thing and student loans and all of those things, you can argue about all of that, do it after we ensure that democracy continues in this country because what we saw in pennsylvania and what could occur in pennsylvania in one of the largest electoral swing states of the country, if the republicans are elected in that because mastriano has already said, he's already said he didn't believe in the election results. he appoints -- if he's elected governor he appoints the

secretary of state of pennsylvania, it's not elected separately and so, yes, if the alex perez are at stake, i think democrats need to raise this up higher and have an argument. i think what occurred in the democratic primary in pennsylvania was very good news for the democrats. if i were somebody drawing up a drawing board of who could win in pennsylvania and paired fetterman with josh shapiro and young african american who got nominated for lieutenant governor as a ticket, it's a great ticket to travel around the state in because they represent different constituencies and appeal in different ways, but they all must in my view have the same exact message which is this is fundamentally about freedom, rights and our democracy, that's what -- let's argue about everything else later. that's what's at stake. >> cornell, i hear democrats and all the reporting suggests that democrats view the results almost as certainly as jake sherman reported the trends show

them that inflation and other economic woes are intractable. are you still brainstorming? tell me the state of optimism for the democratic -- i say that because i worked in the white house where the midterm history was bucked. it was 2002 and our democracy was on the line and it was an issue. can democrats sort of buck that midterm history by making this argument about what matthew is talking about or should they? >> you know -- >> are you asking me, nicolle? >> i asked cornell on this. >> i think -- i think we should, in fact, take a page out of bush's playbook. look, because there was something big that happened that changed the dynamic. it was 9/11. we need -- democrats need something to change the dynamic of this. talking about raising -- you know, look, i think we should raise the minimum wage and have lower health care prices, i think we should forgive college debt. the point about all this, those

are small box issues. you're not going to change the dynamic -- the fundamental dynamics of this midterm race because of your position on health care or because of your position on costs, right? those are important bedrock issues but not dynamic changing issues. i think republicans have given us two dynamic changing opportunities here. one is around and you're seeing polling, women are an enthusiasm for voting among women is going to change and i think because of the abortion -- because of the abortion issue it is potentially a game changer because if i get into the weeds on this, nicolle, if you look at the gender gap from 2010 and 2014 elections they were very small gender gaps compared to 2018 and 200. does this give us an opportunity to have a gender gap in an election that looks more like 2018 than 2014. i think that was a good outcome

for democrats and another piece about this, it's spot on. what is the bigger issue to change the dynamic around this? it is democracy. it is that people like me are not going to fare very well and women are not going to fare very well if america is not a democracy anymore and i think that's a bigger issue than health care costs. >> i really want to drill down. i don't want to lose this but i have to sneak in a break. stick around. i really want to -- i wish i had a whiteboard. i want to write down what this sounds like. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. anywhere. we'll be right back. >> >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. in one easy appointment... ♪ pop rock music ♪ >> tech: ...we can replace your windshield and recalibrate your advanced safety system. >> dad: looks great. thanks. >> tech: stay safe with safelite. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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matt dowd and cornell belcher are back with us. matt, what does this sound like to broaden the conversation? the economy is on people's finds. it's what people are talking about so no one is saying that you don't take these issues cornell is talking about to the voters. what is that broader plate look like? >> well, i mean i think this is strategically in how you have to look at this strategically. first you have to identify who are the voters that you need to affect in this to win these races and obviously one is motivation and motivating democrats and i think all the things that cornell and i talked about are very motivational for democrat, their right, their freedom, democracy, all of that. it's also a series of things that persuade per suedables and to me the group and you and i

talked about this before. the 10% of voters who dislike joe biden and dislike donald trump simultaneously and are worried about inflation and the economy and also they're worried about our country. they're very pro-choice. they want gun reform. they're worried about how neighbors treat neighbors and why people act like they do regardless of race and sex and all of that so i think first you identify that and then you have to be exceedingly consistent. i've said this to you before. we talked about this before. the number one issue in 2004 in every single poll was the economy. we never talked about the economy. we talked about national security, day in and day out. it was in every single piece of mail, every single ad. on every radio and every single speech george w. bush gave around the country. it was national security and politicians have to realize that sometimes their consultants take a poll and say there are these issues and rank this way. what politicians should do in a moment like this is lead voters

is to instruct voters about what really is going on in the country and what really they should care about. listen, infant formula and the fact that we're having a hard time getting it and inflation is bad, but it's temporary. the loss of a democracy is permanent and that's what i think voters, the way you would relate to voters and the way you engage with voters is in that way. i don't care what a poll says on what any issue is. politicians if they do it right can make -- can put this campaign in a place that voters fundamentally raise the stakes of it and they say, aha, i get what the election is about and i know what i need to do. >> you know, cornell, i quote this fictional character all the time but annette bening's character in "the american president" says to the president, you know, election day people care about what i tell them to care about. do democrats still believe that? >> i can't tell. >> me neither. >> i'm so happy that you brought

that point up. far too often -- i'm a pollster but far too often my swob is 23409 to tell you what the top five issues and say this is what you build your campaign around. but far too often in our political consultant circles that's what happens. and as opposed to, you know, the convictions of the candidate saying, you know, this is what -- why i'm running for office. this is what's near and dear to me and so i'm going to dominate the conversation, i'm going to define the debate. it's not rocket science and all three of us are political hacks. we know it's not political science. >> none of the three of us would have done it, correct. [ laughter ] >> so it's he or she who defines the debate ultimately wins the debate. if this debate is simply about inflation and the economy being bad, by the way, you know, the point earlier, congress is always the top two issue.

democrats are going to lose the house. >> all right. wait, so i know we're out of time. we have to do this every wednesday. can we do this, matthew and cornell, tell you how to win elections, right? it's free. i think otherwise it's not. thank you so much. >> nicolle, i just want to say one more thing of hope and optimism. >> please. >> i disagree with what was said earlier. i really think that if done right democrats can keep and expand the senate. i actually think they're going to win in pennsylvania because fetterman i think is the perfect candidate there and whoever is nominated, oz or mccormick and i think the democrats have a shot at keeping the house in this. this idea it's all a fait accompli. >> can i say this -- i do too and i think that events are so dynamic, i mean, if you do what i do, sleep with your phone under your pillow months and years after 9/11 because the world is on fire and democracies are under assault and ukraine matters because as democracies

rise and fall so does ours and i guess what i come back to is how can i see the democrats' prospects rosier than the democrats to and that's what i want you to help me answer every wednesday. i just made that a thing. how do you like that. matthew dowd and cornell belcher, thank you so much. to be continued. when we come back there's some really important and significant developments to tell you about on the ground in ukraine. we'll have a live report from our good friend cal perry after a quick break. y after a quick break.

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we're following a whole bunch of important stories coming out of ukraine starting with news that for the first time in three months the u.s. embassy in kyiv is open, secretary of state antony blinken saying today in a statement that operations have resumed in the ukrainian capital. increased security as life in kyiv attempts to return to normal. also the russian soldier accused of war crimes for shooting a civilian in eastern ukraine late february has pleaded guilty. that plea comes as russia has threatened to hold war trials of its own with ukrainian troops who were finally evacuated from the steel plant this week in mariupol. nearly 1,000 fighters are reported to have left the plant. some of them are carried out on stretchers and taken on buses to towns controlled by russian backed separatists. ukrainian officials say they are seeking to agree to a prisoner swap to control their release. the fall of the steel plant completes the capture of

mariupol giving russia its first and really its own significant victory in a war that has consisted of multiple roadblocks for putin and the kremlin and news of another major blow to the russian strategy, after decades of neutrality finland and sweden formally applied for nato membership bolstering the power of the appliance and hoping it would deter russia from any further aggression. let's bring in nbc news correspondent cal perry live from kyiv. bcoverage which you've been dog there which is so important and this week has been stunning. take us into what you're covering today. >> reporter: so, what we're looking at out and really this week and what we'll be talking about is the way the war is presented inside each country. we've been talking about this since the beginning. what you have going on now is this trial of this russian soldier, 22 years old, he pleaded guilty today. tomorrow we will hear testimony from eyewitnesses including other russian soldiers who will testify that he executed a

62-year-old man on a road four days after the initial invasion. while that's happening, you have the surrender at least this is how the russians are portraying it, the surrender of close to a thousand ukrainian soldiers in mariupol in and around the steel plant and you have video of them being processed and this is the video of them being processed by russian soldiers and becoming prisoners of war. as you said the ukrainian government was hoping there would be a prisoner swap but in the last 12 to 24 hours commentators, politicians in russia and the news broadcasts in russia showing this video have they'd that the men and women who were captured will be put on trial for war crimes and further than that what we've been hearing on russian television is that these are the nazis that vladimir putin and senior officials have been talking about for years that need cleansing in ukraine. so you have going on here and i should say without sounding too old or like a father that this war is being fought on telegram

and social media. we receive most of the video now off telegram and it's being chaired on chat groups with hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. there is one chat room ukrainian based 2 million followers, a russian group, 500,000 followers so you have these moments of propaganda, some of them are re. being shared widely. one of them just very quickly, this was a the battlefield in kharkiv. you have the military pushing russian forces out of villages. fstz you had a platoon of 10 or 15 soldiers make their way to the russian border, pull out their cell phones and post a video. they had to make their way through russian lines. we understand the lines are broken. russian troops are pulling back. this is part of that video. but the statement that this makes that ukrainian soldiers can remove that border post, that yellow and blue border post pose in front of it and make their way back is not just a battlefield gain, but it's something that's going to be used both here and with the

ukrainian officials hope in russia as a sign that the tide is turning. >> i want to ask you about both counties using a trial. i guess the major distinction would be in ukraine, the russian soldiers and the russian government we know because vladimir putin lifted up the russian soldiers carrying out atrocities. that's not where this soldier is accused of carrying out his execution of a 62-year-old civilian. but i guess the central distinction is that the soldiers in the steel plant were not nazis. that's what they will go on trial for. in ukraine, this young sol engineer did commit war crimes. how did you examine the fact that they are both using the theetices of a trial, but one country is using the truth and the other the fabrication at the root of this war.

>> welcome to the conversation that's happening inside the work space and inside the ukrainian government. it has to be part of the reporting. part of my reporting has to be the system here in ukraine is very different than the court system in russia. this young russian soldier is accused of murdering a 62-year-old man. and we will hear testimony to that fact. it's happening inside the ukraiian court system, which is trying to provide justice for both the ukrainian people and this russian soldier. the trials that are going to be happening in russia are different. they are going to be show trial ps. they are going to be for domestic consumption. they are going to be to try to scare ukrainian soldiers. those are the facts. now when you take a step back, there's the propaganda warily ing out here. we live in an era where facts don't seem to matter as much. where news is no longer valued. and nowhere is that more true in russia where it's so highly controlled where the government picks and chooses what people can see. that's when the trials are going to start to matter. >> because so much of this war is being waged on telegram, i'm

going to ask you to curate some of twha that looks like in the future days and weeks, if we can do that. i would love to see that. you're right. neither country is watching this broadcast, but in their encountries they are turning to the telegram channels. thank you so much. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. k break for. now, where were we? [ cheering ] this is remington. he's a member of the family, for sure. we always fed him kibble we'll be right back. it just sed like the thing to do. but he was getting picky, and we started noticing some allergy symptoms. we heard about the farmer's dog and it was a complete transformation. his allergies were going away and he just had amazing energy. it's a no-brainer that remi should have the best nutritious and delicious food possible. i'm investing in my dog's health and happiness. ♪♪

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes. "the beat" starts right now. >> thank you. i'm here as you can see with steve kornacki for a special edition of "the beat." thanks to you. the votes are still being counted. the nation absorbing these key results and a few upsets after voters hit the polls in five states. >> we're going to win this campaign. we're going to win this campaign. >> this race in pennsylvania may be the hottest thing going. >> john fetterman is now the projected winner in the democratic senate primary. >> cnn projects the congressman ted budd wins the republican senate nomination. >> now projecting that doug