to win, but even so, that one, to my eyes, to my mind, is actually the most astonishing of all of the races in awful states that are holding elections tomorrow. it is basically a shoonz for this i guy and that is amazing. so we got that story, and that coverage coming up this hour. and we have some expert help this hour as well on the potential impact, the potential consequencesth of a very unexpected high profile resignation from a russian diplomat today. not only resigned from the russian government, he put them on blast over putin's invasion of ukraine, and putin's corruption and whatai putin has done to russia, and one of the consequences of that in terms of

public morale, and the sort of guise of public morale in russia andle potentially one of the consequences for that guy who resigned today, so we'll get expert help on that and a bunch of news and we will start with something that took more than a year to figure out. it was last year, last january, one week after thela january 6t attack on the u.s. capitol, a member of congress came forward thater day, with a hair-curling allegation, about other members of congress. and you'll for give me for saying this, i think you'll know what i mean, this was not like a usual suspect who brought forward this allegation, it was not a, you know, particularly, you know, another way to describe it is unavoidable for comment member of congress, this is not a member of congress who you see all over television, who is known for making hyperbolic claims, who sometimes said things just toms get on

television. in fact, this allegation came forth from a member of congress who doesn't much like going on tv at all. this is a member of congress who did a decade on active duty in the united states navy.vy flying helicopters in missions all over the middle east and europe. the navy in fact trusted her enough that they put her in charge of overseeing the relationship between the navy of the united states and the navy of russia. she's a naval academy graduate. she has a law degree from georgeton university. a very serious person. and she came here, on this show, exactly one week after the attack on the capitol, and she made a very serious claim here. she said that on january 5th, the eve of the attack, she had seen groups being given tours of the inside of the capitol complex by members of congress. now, the reason that is unnerving is because when the mob breached the capitol and

broke in, the following day, on januaryll 6th, it was an uncann sense among a lot of members of congress that this mob should have been lost and not known where to go, the capitol complex is a very big and confusing place, they seemed oddly oriented. they seemed like they knew where they were going. what is even more worrying about it, january 5th, the day before they attack, there shouldn't he been any tours of any kind happening inside the capitol complex. this is a time when the capitol washe closed to the public, clod to all tours, and let's be honest, this was a day, january 5th, the day before trump had called for a wild protest of his supporters in washington,t thi wassu a day when this member of congress and other members of congress wereth bracing for potential violence in dc around that wild rally that trump had planned forru his supporters th verysu next day. so it was a little unnerving. and what were members of congress doing, showing people around inside the capitol

complex one day before the attack? >> i'm a former navy helicopter pilot, i served for almost ten years, and so at every duty station, whether it was any overseas place i was, i would enterov as a military member, w would receive a security brief. and that security brief would, we would be told to look for things that were out of place. look for things that were odd. and look at them with an eye toward security. and so if somebody was loitering around a helicopter, on the tarmac, that would be questionable to rmme, for examp. and so i arrived in the capitol the week of the 6th and i was very concerned about the violent crowd, the violent extremist groups that were come together capitol for the, called by the president and i told my staff not to come in that day, to work remotely to not be anywhere near the hill and i was really shocked when i got into the

house office building and saw these groups inside. and what was so shocking is as you mentioned, visitors aren't allowed inne the capitol comple. you know, since march, since the start of covid, that has been shut down, all tours are shut down, that was during the last congress, andth it was reiterat on january 3rd, in the new congress, that there would be no tours allowed, even tours given byd, members. so to see these groups around the capitol complex, was really striking. it was so odd to see them that my chief of staff called the sergeant at arms to say what is going on? >> congresswoman of new jersey, she said thatom her chief of stf actually called the house sergeant at arms onus january 5, on the day before the january 6thor attack, to say hey, what are seeing here teams off. this stands out to us from a security perspective. this is something that shouldn't be happening, at any time right

now. let alone the day before the big event is planned in washington. hered chief of staff called the house sergeant at arms to raise the alarm and say what is going on here and the following day thefo capitol was attacked. and it was a week after the attack a that congresswoman of w jersey made these claims public. and shees made a request, it waa form of a letter cosigned by 33 members of congress and requestedme that the sergeant a arms and the u.s. capitol police and the senate investigate this matter and we write today to request an immediate investigation into the suspicious behavior and access given toav visitors at the capil complex on the day before the attack on the capitol. many of the members who signed this letter including those who have served in the military are trained to recognize suspicious activity and members of our staff and we witnessed an extremely high number of outside groups in the capitol complex january 5th.

this is unusual for several reasons including the fact that accesscl to the capitol complex has been restricted since public tours ended last spring with the pandemic. andla the tours being conductedn fuse, january 5th, were a noticeable departure and procedures that limited the number of toursed at the capito and the tours were so concerning that they wereur reported to th sergeant at arms on january 5th. visitors encountered by some members of congress on this letter appeared to be associated with the rally at the white house the following day. members of the group that attacked the capitol did seem to have an unusually detailed knowledge of the layll joust capitol complex. given the events of january 6th, the ties between these groups inside b the capitol complex, a the attacks on the capitol, need to be investigated. it b is important that we feel safe in the halls ofim congress we applaud the sergeant at arms and the u.s. capitol police for their efforts but the fact remains thereth were unusually large groups of people throughout thely capitol who cod only have gained access to the capitol complex from a member oe congress or a member of their

staff. congresswoman, and 33 other members of congress signed on to the letter asking for an investigation and asked a series of detailed questions that would in effect help them investigate the circumstances, too. it was very disconcerting. very disconcerting allegation.nc and that night, that letter was sent to the capitol police and the sergeant at liarms, that nit one week after the attack, i asked the congresswoman here if she knew whoe did it, if she kw which members of congress might have led tours like this. might have effectively helped the attackers case the joint, do reconnaissance on the capitol complex. she told me she wouldn't tell me who it was. she wouldn't say it publicly. but she would report what she knew to a i formal investigatio. >> do you know which members of congress or which congressional staff members would allow these groups into the capitol and were showing them around? i knowan that you haven't talke publicly about that yet.

but do you know, have you conveyed that information, to for example the house sergeant at arms. >> we have asked that other members, over 30 other members have asked for an investigation. that investigation has started. and ites is now ongoing. so we're not talking about exactly the people that i saw that i willop be conveying thato them. >> that investigate has started and it is now ongoing. again, that was last january. more than a year ago. this is a week after thea capil attack. and that makes this, you know, more than a yeares now that we' beena trying to get to the botm ofg this story. as the congresswoman told us that night more than a year ago laste january, an investigatio had been started into whether members of congress really did this and if so who, and if so, why. a few days after that interview here on this show, house speaker nancyis pelosi confirmed that i fact the u.s. capitol police were investigating this matter. then the following month, in february of last year, congress

man tim ryan, oversight for the capitol ghpolice, he told us on the show that federal prosecutors will be reviewing theec matter and the u.s. justi department will be looking at the matter. and we a don't know which membe of congress were potentially implicate and which members of congress might have done this. until all of a sudden it got sort of easy to figure out. because last spring, and into the summer, while those investigators were apparently under way, again congresswoman, nancy pelosi, tim ryan, all told this, that investigations had begun of thisth matter. and wild those investigations were under way, this guy kind of raised his hand, republican congressman barry loudermilk, emerged basically from nowhere to release an oust blue statement saying he and other republicans had checked this out. they hadre looked at all of the security footage from january athri and they wanted to assure everyone that this whole allegation was debunked, there was no one who had any tour of

the capitol building on january 5thl the day before the attack. the republicans later followed it up with a republican staffer describing this supposed review insu detail to the herald newspaper,ai telling the hill tt the republicans watched every second of the security camera footage fromam inside the capit complex on january 5th, telling the paper, quote, there were no tours, no large groups, no one with maga hats on, there's nothing in there remotely fitting the depiction in the letter. congressman barry loudermilk went so far as to file a former ethics complaint saying she was the real criminal to have the temerity tori claim that any memberme of congress had led a tour of the capitol complex on january 5th. how dare she suggest such a thing, she should be suggestingd for even such a thing mightst have happened. congressman barry loudermilk, one of the most amazing names in

congress, by the way, yes, congressman loudermilk why are you personally so jazzed up on this issue? why does this allegation that a member of congress, or more than one member of congress, led a tour of people, on january 5th in the capitol complex the day before the attack? congressman, why you? why doesco this make you feel s defensive and you have to start threatening theha person who ma theth allegation. no one said anything about you connecting theai issue. why does it bother you so much? i mean at this point, it's not like the most suspenseful thing in the world, right? the psychology here is very transparent. this is one tiny embarrassing noise away from the principle saying he smelt it dealt it hypothesis. so yes, as you have no doubt concluded,av sure enough, late last week, we get word from the january 6th investigation that in fact,st it was congressman barry loudermilk who investigators want to speak to

now of a tour of the capitol complex that he personally led on january 5th. oh, you're kidding, right? the guy who said definitely no one led a tour on january 5th and anybody who says there was a tour on january 5th, they themselves should bey investigated, it turns out that's the guy who led the tour on january 5th. crazy, who could have seen that coming,av what a twist. so, thursday last week, was the day the january 6th investigation said hey, congressman loudermilk, we would like to talk to you, because you led a tour on january 5th. in response o he released a new statement that contrary to his earlier denials he now admits he did lead a tour of the capitol complex ons january 5th. he ald mitted that in print on --d he admitted that in pri on thursday and on friday, he released ada video saying he wa only being persecuted for giving that tour that he previously denied,io only being persecuted for it because the people on the tour were wearing red baseball

hats. >> on january 5th, i took a family with young children and their guests who were visiting washington to lunch, in a cafeteria in one of the house office buildings. so what was so awful about this family that caused the committee to make false accusations about them? well, some were actually wearing red baseball caps. >> a family, with young children, and also their guests, the tour that he led on the 5th and they were wearing red caps. first he said there were no tours given and anybody who says there was aan tour should be reported to the ethics committee and investigated and further detailed it, if there was a tour, which thereth wasn't, definitely no one was on such a tour wearing a rede maga basebl cap, and now a it turns out, ye, there was at least a tour led by him, the tour he led of all of the people wearing the red caps. congressman barry loudermilk got caught out by the investigation on this, on thursday, he talked to it on that video on friday and guess what happened on

saturday. guesses what happened next. you probably guessed this, too. a statement from donald j trump, barry loudermilk has my complete and total endorsement. so this very serious-minded congresswoman came forward with this one curdling allegation over a year ago, this particular congressman has not just been denying that allegation,st he ss that he has seen the proof that this definitely never happened, and has been mounting an attack on the congresswoman ever since, trying to getan her in trouble r making this allegation, and now, itki turns out it was him. it at least was him. itm. might have been him plus others. but at least h him and he did i despite all his denials he has been caught. now what happens? joining usno now is congressman democrative of new jersey and navy veteran,de thank you for being here tonight. i appreciate you making the time. >> thanks so much for having me, rachel. >> so we dide, talk about this here, over a year ago, a week

after the attack on the capitol, and ie asked you that night if you knew who the specific members of congress were who had led these tours that you had described and that you wanted investigated. i have toou ask you now, i haveo idea if you'll answer me but i have to ask you, was congressman barry loudermilk one of the membersmi of congress who you kw who had done this. >> that's right, rachel, as we discussed about a year ago, i had seen those tours being given, on january 5th. and then the next day, of course, the capitol building was attacked. and i had pledged at that time to get to the bottom of that, to determine who was responsible for the tours, and which member of congress, and to ensure that that person was held accountable and we see now that the january 6th committee has done just that,ha they've investigated it and it appears from their letter

that they have evidence that representative loudermilk conducted those tours, although he himself admitted that and has confirmed the concerns that i had. so what is so chilling to me about this is it reminds me really of my time as a federal prosecutor, when you saw people trying to shut down investigations, or intimidate witnesses, and here, you have a member of congress, who actually now, newly evidence has come ou andnc reporting has come out th he was onin a radio program on january 6th saying that he led a tour and that some of the people on that tour went to the insurrection theen next day. but if i may, he was saying, not only that no tours took place, but then filing an ethics complaint against me for wanting an investigation into what those toursnv were doing. so let that sit with you a minute.

a member of congress filed an ethics complaint, lied in that ethics complaint, about what he knew was going on, on january 5th. and now, we see that video that you just showed that in fact, he was giving tours. so that to me is something really incredibly chilling of this process, and that's why the january 6th committee, it is so critically important that they get to the bottom of what led up to the events on january 6th so we can ensure that that never ever happens again. >> do youve believe that congressman loudermilk is the extent of this? were there more members of congress who you believe were involved in this? is it a problem that is limited tole him? can you comment on that at all? >> well, i think that that is what we have called upon the january 6th committee to do, and certainly we've seen different things coming out in various

hearings in the senate, about who may be involved, but really, i think that's what we're hoping the january 6th committee will tie together for us. and certainly from what we've seen so far, from the chairman, benny thompson, so the vice chair liz cheney, this bipartisan committee has worked diligently to get to the truth, to make sure that they are working as hard as they can, to ensure this never happens here in our country again. >> in terms of the sort of investigative fire power that's been brought to bear here, this allegation that you first made, has now been borne out by the january 6th investigation, more than a year later, it is sort of one of the most discrete provable simple and yet terrifying allegations that surrounds actually the way things went down in the lead-up to the attackth and during the attack itself. it makes me wonder how you feel about what you've been able to

observe about your level of confidence in the effort that has been put to clarify this, to investigate it. we've heard, we've had it confirmed from speakerad pelosi that the u.s.pe capitol police s looking into this matter, we had itlo stated by congressman tim ryan, that this is something that federal prosecutors were looking at as well, the january 6thth investigation has now publicly confirmed that they have investigated this,io that they have looked at the evidence, that the evidence directly rebuts and contradicts the denials from republican members of congress on this matter, are all of the investigations that have happened all sort of oars that are rowing in the same direction? has there been people, have there been different investigations working at cross purposes, how confident are you in thew fact that this is all getting, taken right down to the brass tacks? >> rachel, as a former federal prosecutor, i oversaw investigations like this, and certainly as you alluded to, these were bets when all of the

agencies working together,th sharing aginformation, sharing what they found, and i think what t we've seen thus far is t january 6th committee, despite a lot ofmm adversity, and some witnessesdv refusing to testify including members of congress, they have certainly gotten an incrediblego amount of informatn about what led up to that event. and i am very hopeful that people will continue to come forward with what they know. because this was probably for me the darkest day in our nation's history. you know,io as i was on the flo of the house, as i tell people with a cell phone in one hand and a gas mask in the other, i simply could not believe that we were beingve attacked because t president of the united states did not want to concede in our democratic election, and he sent people over, other americans, to attack us, as we worked to certify the election. this is the heart of our democracy. we have all taken oaths to the

constitution. i can't even tell you how many times i've takeho than oath as sit here. i took it for the first time when i was 18 years old, i took it when i was promoted throughout the navy, i took it when i was at the u.s. attorney's office, and the federal prosecutor, and i took it again when i entered into the house ofn representatives and the beginning of this session. and i have submitted, committed to guard our constitution, to support and defend it from all enemy, foreign and domestic, and to bear true faith and allegiance to the b same. and every single member of congress has taken that oath and every single member of congress now owes it to this country, to stop putting any of their personal ambitions, any of their self steeling, they need to put thatte aside and need to rememb their oath and get to the bottom of this and they need to make sureof that this democracy thate all love dearly is still instability for our children and

our grandchildren. that's what i'veen committed to do. >> congresswoman sherrill, democrat of new jersey, navy veteran, thank you for your time and thank you for comingte backo put the other book end on this story and we will continue to watch it as it unfolds. thank you. >> rachel, thank you for staying on this. t as you can tell, i think it is incredibly i important. so thanks. have a great night. all right, stay with us. we'll be right back. night. all right, stay with us. we'll be right back.

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february 24th of this year, the day russia invaded ukraine. this aggressive war unleashed by putin against ukraine and in fact, against the entire western world, is not only a crime against the ukrainian people, but also perhaps the most serious crime against the people of russia. those who conceived this war want only one thing, to remain in power forever, to live in pompous tasteless palaces, and live on yachts comparable to cost to the entire russian navy to live with complete impunity to. achieve, that they are willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes, thousands of russians and ukrainians have already died, just for this. he goes on to say, quote, i staten islanded to be a diplomat and have been a diplomat for 20 years. the foreign ministry has become my home and my family but i simply cannot any longer share in this bloody whitless and absolutely needless ignomy. the diplomat's name is boris,

his statement, also took a direct shot at his boss, russia's long time foreign minister, which again, they're equivalent of our secretary of state. he says of their foreign minister, that he quote went from a professional and educated intellectual, whom many of my colleagues held in such high esteem, to a person who constantly broadcasts conflicting statements and threatens the world with nuclear weapons. and this resignation is fascinating, that final point is very provocative, right, this guy who just quit, the highest profile diplomatic resignation since russia started this year, he is a nuclear nonproliferation expert. after he quit today, he told "the new york times" he was disturbed by the nonchalance by which some of his fellow russian diplomats chatted about possible nuclear strikes against the west. that is also a thing that is apparently increasingly happening on russian state controlled tv. he said of that talk, they think if you hit some village am america with a nuclear strike,

then the americans will immediately get scared and run to beg for mercy on their knees. quote that's how many of our people think, and i fear that this is the line that they are passing along to moscow. joining us now julia davis, a columnist for the daily beast and tracks russian government controlled television and prop ganda. i appreciate you for making time to be here tonight. thank you. >> thank you very much, rachel. it's my pleasure. >> he raises this issue, in his resignation letter and in follow-up interview, including with "the new york times," saying that the nonchalance and the frequency of discussion about what a good idea it would to be use nuclear weapons, he is a long-time diplomat, as an expert in the field, finds unnerving. i have to ask, in your monitoring of russian state television, if you're seeing what he's describing. >> absolutely. and it's so refreshing to hear someone who is an insider like him to address it, because it's become redundant. every single day, they bring up

the idea of a nuclear strike against ukraine or against the west and it's a nonstop chatter that has been basically normalized at this point, if you could ever normalize anything as normal. they have become a larger, more dangerous north korea, in their rhetoric. >> and this is changed, to be clear, this isn't a constant, this is something that has changed and become more frequent, over the course of this war, over the last three months? >> absolutely. they followed the putin's lead when they said if anyone dares to interfere on what is going on in ukraine, they will be met with such retaliatory action that they have never contemplated or have seen before, and on state television, they repeatedly are reiterating what they meant is a nuclear strike, and they repeat that with a great sense of pride, that that is one thing that they know the west fears, so they like to constantly repeat it and

convince the russians, or attempt to convince them, that even if they have to die for the motherland, there is no better way to go. >> from your monitoring of this type of propaganda, the state-controlled television, in russia, do you feel like that should make the west, that should make the american government, that should make us as people observing this, more fearful about the prospect that putin might choose to use nuclear weapons in either, either in some tactical way or in some strategic way, do you feel like the saber rattling that you're seeing there should make us feel like this is a more acute threat or do you think this is just a sort of generic sign of belligerence and chest pounding that might not translate directly into a nuclear worry? >> we should remain clear-eyed about russia's capabilities but at the same time keep in mind that they are saying it for us to be afraid for the west to

stop helping ukraine. so it's definitely posturing, and we need to see it for what it is. and it's the only thing that they could threaten us with. they can't threaten us economically. there's not much they can do for us basically so that is one weapon at their dispose thal they like to saber rattle with, and their motive is to make us fear them, and that's exactly what they're hoping to, do and that should be the opposite of what we do. >> the russian government has yet to respond to this resignation, at least as far as i know they have not responded yet, what do you expect their reaction to it will be or do you think they will just pretend this didn't happen? >> i can safely predict what they will probably do. they usually follow the same exact script in this type of instances. they will say he's a traitor, they will claim that he was offered some sort of a reward by the west, and he sold out, and

this is the way that they will portray him. especially because his letter was so scathing, because he referred to navalny's investigations about lavrov's extended family, taking advantage of the luxury properties, and putin's palaces, all of those based on navalny's investigations, so they will certainly try to claim that he is a quote-unquote traitor, simply for exposing their corruption and not being willing to put up with their war mongering and the acts of aggression that they have engaged in. >> julia davis, a columnist at the daily beast, a russian media monitor. thanks for being with us tonight. helpful to have you here. >> thank you very much. >> much more ahead tonight. stay with us. >> much more ahead tonight stay with us bed. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because every green thumb, 5k, and all-day dance party starts the night before.

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here's a little quiz. can you identify these three gentlemen. if your idea of a fun party is identifying recent lesser known government officials this is a fun party, right? they are all former u.s. treasury secretaries. one treasury secretary from the george w. bush years and the other two from the obama years. if you got that, congratulations. you're going to kill it at the next pub quiz trivia night. of course one of the things that treasury secretaries do is they have to travel around the world to discuss financial stuff, occasionally for example they

have to travel to the middle east, to the persian gulf countries to talk oil prices or they encourage investment in the united states, or whatever. these are all photos of those three treasury secretaries, visiting the persian gulf states but there aren't all that many photos of them because there weren't that many trips and those three guys over the space of a decade over two different administration, all three together visited the persian gulf states eight times. eight times in total between all of them. now, how about this guy, do you recognize him? more recent. the guy who held the same job, donald trump's treasury secretary steve mnuchin during trump's one term, the four years he was treasury secretary, you know how many times he went to the gulf states? at least 18. the last three guys went eight times in total between them. and mnuchin went 18 times just himself. that's a 12-hour trans-atlantic flight to visit his friends in the gulf, probably more often than you visit your friends

across town. i mean his three predecessors, eight times combined over a decade, mnuchin 18 times in four years. why is that? well, new reporting from the "new york times" suggests one answer to that question. treasury secretary steven mnuchin was visiting saudi arabia and the united arab emirates and qatar and kuwait to stir up new investments for himself. not for the united states. which is a thing that's called self dealing. and it is a thing that we're not supposed to do. last month, "the new york times" reported on truly remarkable sums of cash that the various gulf monarchies had invested in private projects being run by steven mnuchin. as well as projects for trump's son-in-law white house adviser jared kushner. and the monarchy started paying out these funds almost as soon as those guys left the trump administration. last year after trump was out of office, the saudis gave steven mnuchin a billion for his new investment fund. they gave jared kushner $2

billion. and they did this even though saudi arabia's own investment advisers explicitly recommended against it in writing, because they determined that, kushner had no experience, he in h-no other investors, their due diligence on kushner's operation showed that they are quote, unsatisfactory in all aspects. but still, the saudis gave $2 billion to jared. why is that? well, his father-in-law's administration had bent over backwards for four years to try to protect saudi interesting starting with making saudi arabia trump's very first foreign trip as president, something no president had ever had done and no other president ever will. trump and kushner and steven mnuchin defended the saudi's autocratic defacto ruler after he rounded up and imprisoned hundreds of royal family members after he stopped a blockade of the u.s. ally in qatar and signed off on an operation to ultimately kill and dismember a

"washington post" journalist. all of that favor and protection over the course of four years has got to be worth something, right? a couple billion at least. especially if donald trump might be president again one day. so there's this sort of implicit quid pro quo in that situation. remember how good you were when you were in office, and how about, remember how good our administration was to you when i was in office, now how about you put some money in my pocket and invest in my new project and that quid pro quo with kushner is icky enough but it somethings that kushner and mnuchin might have been using their pocks to tee up these money-making enterprises before they left office. right before the 2020 election, kushner and mnuchin unveiled a new u.s.-government-backed investment fund that would ostensibly raise millions of dollars for projects in the middle east and throughout the trump presidency, kushner and mnuchin kept flying all over the middle east on the taxpayers

dime to supposedly raise money for the government fund and made three treep trips between the election and inauguration of joe biden. he was on the way back from saudi arabia and steven mnuchin was on the way to saudi arabia and mnuchin cut his trip short because of the capitol attack and he did extend it a couple of days to try to squeeze in one more meeting with the leader of saudi arabia. here is the thing. all of these meetings were supposedly about the u.s.-backed investment fund. the times describes it as quote little more than talk with no accounts, no employees, no income and no projects, the fund vanished when mr. trump left office. except kushner and mnuchin did later raise billions from all of those countries they were scrambling to visit in their last months in government. and they didn't raise it for any u.s. government fund and which appears to never really existed, they raised it for themselves. three weeks after leaving office, mnuchin was talking about a plan he had, a few weeks

later, he had detailed investment plans on half a billion from the emiratis, and kuwaitis and a half billion and the billions from saudi arabia, mnuchin and kushner both took the government officials who had ostensibly been working with them on this government project and installed them at their new private ventures where they would get the money. and in april of last year, when mnuchin sent the saudis a roster of the top executives at his new private venture for him to invest, in one of the managing directors was still at that moment employed by the u.s. treasury department. and this isn't even like speeding up the revolving door between government and the private sector. this is like there's no door. it means you go to work for the u.s. government, and in the name of the u.s. government, you raise money for yourself. on the one hand, it feels like, you know, another bit of

corrupt, from the trump administration that has stuck to our national shoe and on the other hand it feels like blatant, it cannot possibly stand. hold that thought. possibly stand. hold that thought.

in the distant hard to pronounce foreign country, if a high-ranking government official and a high-ranking family member related to the country's leader repeatedly did big favors for a troubling foreign monarchy, and then as soon as they left

office, that family member and that high-ranking official personally collected billions of dollars from that same monarchy, for their own private business ventures, you might say, you know, wow, the former soviet union is really corrupt, or wow, yeah, those countries that end in "stan," they are sure unreformed in their corruption and they'll never make it as a real democracy like us or you might say yeah, it is crazy that the united states of america put donald trump in the presidency, and then what did you expect once he was in there? "the new york times" has new reporting, now reveals that trump's son-in-law jared kushner and secretary treasury mnuchin, apparently met with foreign governments, and shoveled billions of dollars in their private ventures as soon as they left office.

it is not a far away land. one of those who broke the story is "new york times" correspondent kate kelly. thanks for joining us. >> thank you, rachel. pleasure to join you. >> what are the meetings that mr. kushner and mr. mnuchin took as government officials and the later investment in the foreign officials with the foreign governments to make the massive investments in ventures for those men? >> i think those business meetings built the relationships, and kept them warm at a time when boelt both occur ner and mnuchin were mere weeks away or just a couple of months away from leading office as trump stepped down so they got to know their foreign counterparts, in kushner's case, these were rulers of countries, these were other senior officials, but also importantly, the heads of sovereign wealth funds, or you know, the large government investment funds run by many countries and notably in the persian golf. in mnuchin's case and you

pointed this out in your intro, 18 countries over 14 years which had a huge cluster toward the end of the administration in 2021 helped him get acquainted with the investors who mere months late we're invest in his funds. we also know the abraham fund you mentioned, the $3 billion, at least that was the goal, u.s. government-backed fund, that was meant to fund development projects in places like palestine, where israeli checkpoints would be improved and modernized, among other things. that was something that was on both of those official's item agendas, as they toured the gulf, in those final months of office, to talk about building enthusiasm and support for the fund. but as you noted, it doesn't really go anywhere. what did go somewhere, right after government, is jared kushner's private equity fund equity partners and steven mnuchin's private equity found. >> and i describe this as self

dealing, somebody who is not an expert and a lay observer, the dictionary definition of somebody using their public position, their access to government resources, potentially even their actions as government officials, to set themselves up for private gain. is that fair? in terms. layman's understanding of that. and as an extension of that, is this potentially illegal behavior? >> well, that was obviously one of the top questions we were asking ourselves, rachel, as david kirk dlpatrick and i reported on this and what we discovered from talking to ethics expert, this is quite legal. if we as americans want to see this kind of activity ceased in the future, we need to probably codify some new rules an regulations that prevent one from seeking outside investments from former government counterparts once they leave office. and in the state and executive branch. but right now this is quite legal. self dealing is a little bit more of a term of art.

but sure, i mean depending on your perspective, i think that that is something you can say. there are laws that govern your participation as a government official in matters that substantially or personally affect your financial position, or that of your immediate family. i'm sure you're familiar with it. 18 usc 208. but in this case, theoretically applied here, it is really hard because what you need to establish is a quid pro quo. so both parties in this case, a sovereign wealth fund and these officials would have to know there was sort of a two-part transaction going on that resulted in them receiving this money. and i think, i don't know that that's the case, i wouldn't want to suggest that it was, but in any case, even if it were, very hard to demonstrate for a prosecutor. >> right. certainly to prove it in court, of course. kate kelly, "new york times" correspondent, with the

ground-breaking reporting, thank you for helping us understand it. i appreciate your time. >> thank you. we'll be right back. stay with us. nk you. we'll be right back. stay with us

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thanks for joining us. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. voters in five more states head to the polls in another big primary day. the most closely watched, in georgia. where the power of donald trump's endorsement and tolerance of his big lie will be put to the test. not only in the race for governor, but also for secretary of state. we'll also go live to alabama where senate candidate, surged in the polls after donald trump pulled his endorsement of the republican congressman. plus, the latest on the baby formula shortage. another shipment expected to arrive tomorrow. we'll tell you where it's

headed.