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deadly insurrection and that threatens to unravel our democracy, well, it's on the ballot in several states today in gop primaries that are just as much a measure of the trumpification of the republican party as they are a test of the disgraced ex-president's political power. in georgia, governor brian kemp and secretary of state brad raffensperger are facing primary challengers entirely because of their refusal to overturn the results of the 2020 election there. trump's conduct in georgia is notably under criminal investigation now. a pair of trump-backed candidates, that would be former senator david perdue and congressman jody hice are hoping to unseat republicans kemp and raffensperger. "new york times" reports this, quote, along with representative jody hice, david perdue is running a campaign that's almost single mindedly focused on trump's baseless claim that the 2020 presidential election was stolen, and in true trump style, perdue is ending a campaign that

is staked on a lie just with his racist dog whistle, but with a waysist bull horn. from "the washington post" reporting on that race, former senator david perdue who's trailing in the polls for georgia's gop gubernatorial nomination. on monday attacked stacey abrams, running unopposed in her primary by claiming she's demeaning her own race. georgia voters are widely expected to reject the conspiracy theory and race peddling david perdue, it's worth noting that governor brian kemp is no great defender of democracy either. he's running on a record that includes signing a sweeping voter suppression law, and he refuses to say a single bad thing about an ex-president who tried to strong arm him into rejecting the vote count of the voters in his state. "the washington post" reports that in a press conference monday, kemp said, quote, i had a great relationship with trump. i've never said anything bad about him. i don't plan on doing that.

i'm not mad at him. i think he's just mad at me. and that's something i can't control. 8th graders everywhere want their text chain back. the other target of trump's rat in georgia, brad raffensperger is running against a congressman who was a big-time player in the failed trump coup plot. here's how nbc news describes him, jody hice. hice who trump endorsed hours after his campaign, voted to reject the certiied election results in georgia and pennsylvania on january 6th even after a mob of trump supporters stormed the capitol. in a since deleted instagram post on the morning of january 6th, he wrote this, quote, this is our 1776 moment. hice was also among several republican members of congress who were involved in a planned effort to pressure vp mike pence to overturn the 2020 election by discarding electoral votes from

certain states won by president biden. the bulwark reports this, quote, hice is so committed to installing a donald trump autocracy against the will of the voters that he walked away from his congressional seat to run for the much less glamorous job of georgia secretary of state. the georgia primary is providing a snapshot into the radicalized and trumpified republican appeared. former republican congressman david jolly is here, the chair of the serve america movement and an msnbc analyst. and "politico" reporter for "axios" and with me at the table for the hour, donny deutsch. alexi, start with you. take me inside what you're watching and what part of this story is not just from a gop civil war front but for anybody who cares about small d democracy front, which part of this is most interesting to you? >> thank you so much for having me. today is definitely a very

interesting primary day. you cannot talk to democratic gubernatorial candidates on the record, off the record. however, without them sharing this human moment where they're kind of having an almost existential crisis, and they say, yes, we're talking about the threats to democracy on the trail. we're talking about the different visions between the parties, but at the end of the day, this is an existential moment for these folks who are running against some of the most extreme republicans we've seen in a really long time. you're talking about the georgia primary. we've seen increased turnout there. the thing that i'm watching and i have reporting coming on this later today with my colleague andrew at "axios," republicans are determined to make the big lie bigger because of the turnout numbers we're seeing in fwa. they're using it to say that it's evidence that there's no voter suppression, and that's not just republicans in georgia. it's republicans here in washington and across the country telling us they're planning to make this another corner stone of their so-called election integrity campaign messaging. of course as you know, and as

democrat s will argue, that's just not true. there are so many other factors that contribute to turnout as you know well. the type of candidates that are running, the profile of the campaigns, which obviously republicans have higher profile contests than democrats this time. so i think that's something we're going to watch. how republicans are trying to twist this mis and disinformation around voting into saying, oh, our voter suppression laws, they're not that bad. they're not actually working against democrats. >> david jolly, it would be funny if it wasn't so sick. the voter suppression laws target communities of color that by and large don't vote in republican primaries, which is precisely why the laws were crafted as they were. >> yeah, that's exactly right. look, there is a concerted effort to reduce turnout among historically democratic voters and largely communities of color. that cannot be swept away in any of these conversations or analysis of races. that's true in the secretary of state race in georgia, it's also

true in texas, florida, and other states around the country. i think it's an important theme that you and alexi hit on. even as we analyze what is the power of donald trump in his endorsements, every other republican figure have endorsed this platform of voter suppression, this platform of culture wars of angry immigration policy, of dividing the country, not uniting it. we saw it in pennsylvania. oz had the trump endorsement. kemp he has nothing but flattering things to say about trump and trumpism. so yes, the imprint of an endorsement matters. i think in the larger analysis, the entire party has already shifted to trumpism. that's not going back. >> david, let me follow up with you. i think that's right. and i think measuring the outcome as a read on trump's powers is the wrong measure. i think the outcome of the republican party is totally and

firmly in the grips of anti-democratic policies, whether it's describing the media's enemies of the people and keeping them out of an event as happened in the final days of the pennsylvania primary. whether it's passing voter suppression laws predicated on a lie. there was no fraud. just ask bill bar or liz cheney. the idea that any of these races are going to yield a republican who's going to be pro-small d democracy is a fantasy. . it is. it's just maga with a smile on your face. look at what glenn youngkin did in virginia, look at rhonda sanchez in florida. it's very much a mitch mcconnell approach. we're still going to advance the hard right conservative culture war voter suppression, antiimmigrant, xenophobic maga platform. we're just going to do it without hugging donald trump, and we're going to do it with more of a smile than more of the angry snarl. that's the only difference here. i think for national republicans who are trying to emerge,

though, there are strategic messages in the young kin camp, desantis brand. you cannot be adversarial to donald trump. you must be complementary to it, but once you get in that complementary lane, it's okay to not hug donald trump the personality so closely, as long as you're adhering to his platform and to his populism. >> so it's really -- it's a sad commentary, but it's also an incredible opportunity for democrats because i haven't seen any of these candidates on the republican side have to face questions about where they stand on the leaked supreme court opinion, which is in opposition of -- if it leads to statewide bans on abortion that exclude the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother, you're at about an 80% issue for democrats. when you talk about whether or not we should have faith in free and fair elections, you're at about a 70% issue. access to the polls is a 66% issue. people supported the substance of what was in the voting rights legislation that never made it through the u.s. senate. what do you see as sort of the

read on these republican primaries and the opportunity for democrats? >> i think the republican primary, i think race is on the ballot. two you gov polls, 61% of trump supporters, almost two-thirds believe in replacement theory. they actually believe -- i don't have to go through the litany, they actually believe it. and another stunning poll, 48% of all republicans say it's not necessarily important for their leaders to condemn white nationalism or racism. i want to say that again, one in two republicans say, no, that's really not an issue for me. you put those together. >> explains why they don't want the history of race in the country taught. >> so that's what's on the ballot here, and you put that together, the replacement theory, the racism with roe v. wade versus the big lie, you would think the democrats would be able to cobble together a kind of overall anti-democracy

message that has not somehow still been resonating with voters. . they have not been able to find a way to kind of weave together, yarn together the fear factor -- i talked about this last week -- that you really got to frighten people. because the republicans are not putting anything on the table. they're not talking about any issues. >> the problem is nobody should be weaving or knitting, they should take up a sledge hammer and hit people in the head. >> you just summed it up very, very well. they're not playing hard enough. i keep coming back to this theme. they're not really laying it out there and putting all those pieces together to say this is what you're voting for. oh, and by the way, democracy's on the line because if you vote for this guy jody hice your vote in the next election won't matter because here's what's going to happen. >> i want to turn to the raffensperger contest. let me play what raffensperger was in the middle of in 2020.

>> it doesn't pass the smell test because we hear they're shredded thousands and thousands of ballots, and now what they're saying, oh, we're just cleaning up the office, you know. i don't think that -- >> mr. president, the problem you have with social media, people can say anything -- >> no, this isn't social media. this is trump media. it's not social media. it's really not. it's not social media. i don't care about social media. i couldn't care less. social media is big tech, big tech is on your side, you know. i don't even know why you have a side because you should want to have an accurate election and you're a republican. >> we believe that we do have an accurate election. >> this is to me, alexi, the moment when trump breaks with the republican party actually. what he's saying is to be a republican is to be corrupt, is to join an autocracy, a kleptocracy, something more familiar in vladimir putin's russia, frankly. does this hang over the contest

for raffensperger in the race with hice or would he like this to be ancient history himself? >> unfortunately this election fraud narrative is not going away, and while raffensperger was doing the right thing by not allowing trump, or doing his bidding, he is part of a republican party that elected officials at all levels are buying into this big lie. i mean, look around raffensperger in his own primary, in his own party. donald trump has been very successful in recruiting people on the explicit intent that they will run on a campaign to overturn future elections. they are proposing laws that would make it easier for them to do that if they become secretaries of state in places like georgia, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, nevada, arizona. these are battleground states that matter not just for 2022, not just for 2024, but really as you've been talking about,

nicolle for democracy and the way that people are able to participate in it moving forward. so raffensperger might feel like he's on an island now. another thing that i'm watching that i'm sure you all are, is whether how these republicans who make it through primaries against donald trump and his candidates are able to moderate or if they feel the pressure to become more partisan, to embrace trump more because they know that populous desire appeal that he brings is still present to an extent. >> david jolly, what has been erased from our politics on the right is this measure of a person's -- forget about character. that disappeared in '16 -- but of their strength, and it's this inverted measure. it's about your weakness. it's about your servitude, your slavishness to trump's lies. i've never seen an inversion in terms of a voter metric happen so quickly, that being a strong leader is now not valued by the

gop base. it's about how weak you are to trump's lies. >> and i think in addition to the leadership lens, we can apply moral authority lens. we can apply a judgmental lens, and i'm careful to do that. what i mean by this is this is their guide. donald trump is their guy. he's been their guy since they all decided he was. i was in congress during that '16 cycle, and there were very few of us who wrestled with whether or not to support trump. i ultimately decided not to, but everybody else fell in line. the day he secured the nomination, paul ryan said to the media, i'm not quite there yet, and it made news. but you know what? he got there, and so did kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell and david perdue. go down the list of republicans, they said, okay, this is our guy. and so when we saw the election fraud, when we listened to that tape of donald trump and the secretary of state in georgia, donald trump was speaking for paul ryan and kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell and every single other republican that empowered him and elevated him.

this is their guy. this is their platform, and until one of them comes out and publicly rejects him and says he's taking us in the wrong direction, and i want to get us back, forget about it. they're all in this lot together. >> and here is someone who would like to be in that lot, this is georgia senate candidate herschel walker, donny. >> one of the things that certainly motivated president trump in giving endorsements to various candidates has been whether or not they accept his claim that the election was stolen. do you think the election was stolen? >> well, i don't think -- i think -- i think reporters say that. i don't know whether president trump said it. he never said it to me. >> he says it over and over again, please. >> no, no, no, he has never -- i've never heard president trump say that. >> that's like three great questions for me, this is like tuesday's brain teaser. one, has he met trump. two, has he watched fox? >> right. >> and three, you know, what reporters is he talking about? >> he's -- i guess he's watching just espn's sports classics and old georgia football games.

for him to say that donald trump has not come out and say the election was a lie and stolen. >> that's literally all he says. >> this is a guy that is ahead 60%. he's up 60 to i think the next person is 8%. this is the republican's best offer. i want to just go back on -- i want to distinguish between trump and trumpism. i feel -- and there's a lot of qualitative and quantitative -- that trump himself is losing somewhat of the grip. trumpism is not. trumpism is alive and stronger than ever. i feel it's interesting that there's -- they're trying to sell a fresher version. when you listen to trump now, it feels dated. feels like yesterday's news. there's something about him. you don't hear about him a lot. you don't see him a lot, but there's something about him -- >> where is he? you're right, but where'd he go? >> yet, trumpism is alive and well and frighteningly so. >> say more about that because i think the pennsylvania race is -- i mean, the final burst was a candidate who ran as maga

without trump saying it belongs to all of us, but she didn't prevail. i mean, what do you think the sort of -- >> yeah, i think, look, we see what's going on with kemp. trump could not have gone any more all in on perdue. he called in instead of showing up at a rally. it does not seem to be -- i think the way kemp said it best, ask you made fun of it rightfully so. i'm not mad at him. he's just mad at me. >> it was so insipid, it was so dumb. >> there is this -- youngkin started it. i'm not going to poke the bear, but i don't have to hug and kiss the bear. i think that's a little bit of what's going on here. but trumpism is alive and well. i still -- and i know i'm in a minority. i still don't think he's going to be the candidate. i really don't for a lot of reasons. we don't have to go into it here. >> we should, but i mean, i think, david, what donny's getting us to is why this matters. and i actually can't be made to care or brought to care about civil war in the republican party because to your point,

there wasn't a war. tragically the time to have a war is when a guy that bragged about grabbing women between the legs became the nominee. that was when a war would have been appropriate. is he us? are we him? and they didn't have a war. as you said, they fell into line. there's not a republican civil war going on. as donny just said, there's this insipid tap dance around trump to get all the benefits of trumpism. how do you break that fever? >> yeah, so very importantly. the future of the republican party remains in trump's -- i won't call it an ideology, in his platform of populism. very importantly, it will not -- the shuttle will not be handed off to somebody who is adverse to trump, a liz cheney, a hogan, somebody like that. it will be somebody who has been complementary. it means that all that infests the party today will continue to. i actually agree with donny's analysis exactly. i would add one thing to it, the strategy then of youngkin and kemp and particularly ron desantis in florida rests on

waiting donald trump out. if you're not able to actually topple the king, then you're putting all your chips on the table on just the passage of time, and that holds a lot of political careers and a lot of political futures in balance because we still have not seen somebody willing to take on trump directly. they just want to support his platform, and that platform is at the heart of what we're talking about today, an antidemocratic authoritarian, xenophobic culture war divisive anger platform. that is today's republican party. i use these words carefully, but i started saying it more and more, there is an anti-christian theme in today's republican party. this whole what would jesus do constituency, absolutely not. it is adverse to what jesus would do. i think what democrats should do is call republicans on their hypocrisy base rooted in faith, and take back that faith argument from a party today who is acting with with values antithetical to the christian and faith-based movement.

>> that would be a political earthquake. some of the political radicalization taking place inside the church, that sounds like something that alexi's going to probably hear on the campaign trail too. we have to sneak in a break. let me just tell everyone what's going to happen. no one's going anywhere. when we come back, a former election official who knows firsthand how democracy is on the line in georgia tonight will be our guest. he's the lone republican in georgia who stood with democrats to speak out against the state's restrictive new voter laws. he'll join our conversation. plus, the ukrainian president sitting down with "axios" saying he is no longer as eager to meet with vladimir putin as he was in the earlier days of the war. why he says that's the case and what the war looks like over these next couple months. former zelenskyy adviser will be our guest. later in the program, the state of michigan trying to figure out how thousands of fraudulent signatures helped get several republican candidates who are now in danger of being disqualified on the ballot. all those stories and more when

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♪ wayfair you got just what i need. ♪ humans and dinosaurs can coexist. i could use your expertise. we're on the verge of extinction. let's all try to stay positive. . from my point of view, they intentionally misled the state senators, the people of georgia, and the people of the united states about this to cause this conspiracy theory to keep going and keep the disinformation going, which has caused this environment that we're seeing today. >> i wonder how it feels trying to push back against the president of the united states who is making all of these claims? >> it's like having a shovel in your hand and trying to empty the ocean. >> that was georgia elections official gabe sterling just a

few days after the january 6th insurrection about dealing with that tidal wave of disinformation around the 2020 election result unleashed by the ex-president, his supporters, and their allies in the media that led to the deadly attack on the u.s. capitol. more than one year later, the big lie remains the fault line for republican politics in his state with sterling's boss, secretary of state brad raffensperger facing a really tough primary challenge from congressman jody hice who was actively involved in discussions with the trump white house on specifically how to overturn the 2020 election defeat for donald trump. as one elections expert told nbc news, quote, if trump is running again, hice will find those 11,800 votes referring to the now infamous january 2021 phone call in which trump asks raffensperger to find 11,779 votes for him. joining our conversation, the former voice chair of the dekalb

county board of elections board. i've watched this race, and i've wanted to talk to you about it. tell me what for you is on the line in these primaries tonight. >> simply democracy, nicolle. it's tough to believe after having been involved in republican party for 30, 35 years that somehow georgia has become the epicenter in this election cycle and then when you think about it, look no further when you're talking about the state of the republican party, look no further than the candidates running for governor and lieutenant governor and secretary of state. i mean, you've got a gubernatorial candidate who her campaign slogan is jesus, guns, and bibles, and a former baptist minister and current congressman who is actually propagating the biggest lie of all. obviously he doesn't think that the thou shalt not lie commandment is something that applies to him or the former president. >> do you think on the stump they're aware of how dishonest

these claims are? even the lesser evil, which is kemp and obviously raffensperger they supported a voter suppression law also predicated on a lie about a lack of integrity in georgia's election. there was no fraud in georgia's election, was there? >> that's right. there wasn't the widespread fraud that has been propagated over the course of the last 15, 16 months. and as you probably noticed with alabama congressman mo brooks, the minute that they lost the former president's support, that's when they finally somehow deep down found the courage to actually speak up, which i think is sad. i think as david jolly had mentioned, you know, this is a very strange republican party now. it's really become a platform for the flat earth society. >> and that obviously the sort of captain of the flat earth society is the ex-president. how is his presence felt in georgia during these republican primaries? >> sure. well, certainly he's got the

soap box, but i am -- and i've been heartened by the fact that increasingly you do have former officials and certain, certain candidates who are willing to speak out. thank god for the -- those who are running for office who actually have the courage to speak up or at least in the past, you know, many months ago had the guts, the courage to stand up for our results, right? >> so there's a criminal investigation now into the ex-president and the conduct in your state, which you were on the front lines of. what are the stakes of sort of holding accountable those who furthered the big lie and of making sure that people understand just how close we came as a country to having a big and important state like georgia, if raffensperger hadn't walked the line, if kemp hadn't certified the accurate count, donald trump's coup attempt could have come even closer. >> it's frightening to actually think that somehow it came down

to, you know, these individuals and their ability to stop the -- stop his attempt. i think one thing that we are -- i suppose i'd compare our democracy to maybe the -- in the parlance of wall street, basically a company with shareholders with a more short-term focus as opposed to being long-term focus. in that regard, you've seen these accusations and allegations continually be propagated without the due legal objections and accountability, and that's what frightens me. i remember george schultz using the term trust is the coin oaf -- in this case democracy will die when trust is no longer the coin of the realm and there are no guardrails and no forms of accountability to basically repel these lies and allegations because it's basically extremely

disruptive to our country. >> you are someone i wanted to talk to today. we may call on you again when these results come in. thank you so much for spending some time with us. >> thanks, nicolle. i need to turn to breaking news. if you've got kiddos in the room, maybe turn it down. there's horrifically tragic news to tell you about, a shooting at robb school in texas. two people have been killed, at least 13 have been injured. reports that many of those injured are children. the shooter is in police custody according to local law enforcement. i'm going to bring our coverage frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counter intelligence as well as an msnbc national security analyst. nn in these early hours, there's so little we know. there's so much we feel. you hear about a shooter and you see the location is an elementary school. what are your questions? >> motivation goes to the heart of my questions.

i'm thrilled to hear that this person's in custody if the initial report is correct. yet here we are again, nicolle, talking about something that we never want to talk about, and this comes within 24 hours of the fbi releasing its annual report on active shooting incidents in this country. what they're telling us is there's been over 50% increase in active shooter increase in the last year. there's been a 97% increase in the last five years. people who think we don't have a gun problem in this country are deluding themselves, and if you correspond that with the increase in background checks being done because of increased gun purchases, we've got more guns, a record number of guns being purchased on the streets more accessible to people than ever before. we have more people being killed in these incidents which speaks to assault type weapons, extended magazines. we've got a problem in this

country that is not being dealt with, and nicolle, we don't have an atf director. the agency that is supposed to enforce our nation's gun laws has no leadership of any formal nature in the last seven years. >> those failures today contributed perhaps to two children being among the 13 reported dead in the shooting that we are covering. we are expecting a news conference from local authorities any moment now. those authorities will tell us what they know, but i think, frank, what we already know is that, again, children have been failed by our culture with rampant guns and people who wish to do harm, even to the innocent among us. >> there's a tandem problem of mental health, plus access to guns, and that equals people who shouldn't have guns getting their hands on them, yet we seem completely unable to do anything about that. we study each of these

extensively. the fbi studies these full-time. they have a unit that does nothing but study these. if you don't translate that study and analysis into concrete actions with regard to who should have access to guns and where and when, then we will continue to have this problem. we need to get the facts right on this whether it's two dead and 13 wounded or 13 dead. >> it's two dead. there are two children dead, and there are 13 injured. they're being treated at a hospital. there are, to be clear, two dead. they are children. and there are 13 injured and being treated for those injuries right now. thank you, frank. >> initial report i saw -- and again as you said, preliminary reports are often wrong, is that the shooting began outside the school and the shooter may have found some kind of refuge in the school and hunkered down there. but the good news, if accurate, is he's in custody. he or she. they're almost always he's.

the fbi report telling us yesterday of the 61 active shooter incidents last year, 60 of them were committed by males. that's another thing we need to look at in terms of what is motivating males in particular to act out violently in our society. unprecedented school security these days, armed school resource officers in many schools. we'll have to learn whether such a resource officer existed here in this school, whether that might have helped in texas where this is happening about 77 miles west of san antonio. it's not unusual to have teachers armed in classrooms. we need to learn whether that was the case or whether any of that seemingly helped in this regard. >> so here's what my colleagues at nbc news are able to confirm at this hour, and, frank, thank you for making sure we are putting out the most accurate information.

two law enforcement initials are confirming that two children are dead following the shooting. an 18-year-old suspect is described, frank, as not at large at this time. what would you imagine is happening with that suspect right now? >> well, boy, this is reminiscent of just a couple of weekends ago in buffalo where we had an 18-year-old shooter. whether you're looking at radicalization due to religious reasons or whether you're looking at someone ready to commit violence, that key age group, 18 to 25 is where this happens. and then the fbi report yesterday, we're looking at extending that into the early 30s. so what's going on with this? he's being interviewed, if he hasn't retained counsel and invoked his right against self-incrimination. his residence, there will be a search warrant executed where he lives so they can get in there and determine whether there are other dangers. police officers these days have to be very careful about that because sometimes there are

secondary devices, bombs, booby traps within a residence or a vehicle so they'll approach that very carefully. i'm sure they're writing an affidavit right now for a search warrant. they're trying to locate his family, his parents. there will be extensive interviews done about what his background is. they'll eventually get into his devices, and they'll start looking again at what happened here. was this a personal beef with someone outside the school that ended up simply in some kind of barricade situation in school or was the school part of this plan to begin with? all of this very early on. we need to get those answers because we need to start to take action, for example, as new york is doing because of buffalo. they're looking inward at what happened with regard to the mental health referral that happened with the buffalo shooter and whether that should have been entered into a system that would have precluded the purchase of guns. is there a juvenile issue that's

been found here? will we find that here? is there a history of mental illness? should we be thinking about expanding the criteria that gets into the background check system, to include juvenile experiences with mandatory mental health confinements or referrals. all of that should be in play, but i fear, nicolle, that none of it is in play on a federal level because we have a congress that seems uninterested in taking action. >> again, if you're just joining us, we're covering the most heinous kind of breaking news that you could ever tune in for. we're sorry for that. two children are dead after a texas school shooting in ewe value dee, texas. it is west of san antonio. texas is a huge state, frank, but the horrors of el paso are also coming to mind as we cover another shooting in that state. >> well, and yet again, you've cited another active shooter

that happened to be in that teenage group as well, and we know from our studies of international terrorism and radicalization that young men in particular are looking for a cause, can be prone to violence if they find a cause that motivates them to violence, and part of the solution here is just being a larger part of reaching out to people in this age group and giving them something to belong to that doesn't result in violence. that's something everyone should be able to agree to. we'll learn more about the gun here. we'll learn whether it was legally acquired, whether he purchased it or whether it was a gift. whether it was stolen or not, whether there were mental health signs and warnings or not. but there's one thing, nicolle, that i just beat this drum whenever we have these tragedies. that's this, while the governments at state, county, and federal levels are wringing their hands trying to do

something is and not really succeeding at it, we've got to take some responsibility to learn the warning signs and indicators of violence. today, i put out because of buffalo and because of the fbi report, i did a repeat on my podcast of a show where i interviewed the head of the fbi's threat assessment center that studies every active shooting incident. i want people to learn the warning signs and indicators. don't be that person that sits back and says i knew something was going to happen here and i did nothing. if there's nothing else we can do, we can pick up the phone and report our concerns about somebody. >> well, and frank, because this is america, we tragically have three school shootings we could study specifically. i mean, what, if you look at columbine and parkland and newtown unites if anything the shooters there. >> disturbingly, they have histories with law enforcement, particularly if you're talking about parkland, florida. if you're talking about gosh,

wisconsin, a history of school officials knowing there's a problem there. buffalo, a history of the police interacting regarding a mental health concern, so the question is follow-up. are we doing this right? clearly not. how many times do police have to go to a young man's home, in the case of the parkland, florida, shooter, and write notes like this is trouble. there's nothing we can do. we have red flag laws. we need to use them more. every state should have them. every state should exercise them. they work. red flag laws for viewers who may not be familiar allow law enforcement to not walk away from an incident that concerns them, but rather say we're going to hold onto your weapons right now. you're going to have due process. we're going to figure this out, but until we can figure it out, we're taking your weapons because we believe there's a pending threat. that works, but it has to be

utilized. >> it is tragic that you can sit in a live moment where children are among the dead at a school shooting at an elementary school in the united states of america and call to mind other tragic shootings at schools. this is who we are. david jolly you have represented a state that is tragically the home of the parkland shooting. what are your questions at this hour? >> david jolly, are you still with us? >> i am. >> as you watched this, having represented florida, the country went through the horrors and the tragedy of the parkland shooting, what are your first questions as a former elected official when you see news like this come in? >> i think how we will react as a culture, as a country, as a government, as a congress, as a

legislature, and will this time be any different? we've had the opportunity, frankly the three of us, you, frank, myself, a number of others on air now to attend to a number of mass shootings, and you know, we choose the emotion. i think every american does. is it outrage? is it anger? is it activism? at some level it's shame, right? shame that we have not fully addressed the issue of hearts and minds in the country, shame that we've not addressed the legislative posture, the system of laws to prevent this. shame that we've accepted it. but i got to share a personal moment, nicolle because i think in some ways my wife and i today are every american family. we had the opportunity, i have, to celebrate with much of the audience the birth of our children. today was the day we went to tour the school that we hope maybe our kids go to, and we shared that excitement as a husband and wife, it was a new

chapter. and we were aware. we saw kind of the code red signs within the school, what to do if there was a shooting and i realized other parents have come before us on this. this isn't new or unique to us, but as the news broke, you know, that joy met with reality of what every american family has to deal with and the anxiety of dropping your kids off at school, and i think that's where the shame maybe has to be a part of this as a culture, and to the extent as a culture we can translate that shame to activism, impart that shame on a legislature, on a congress that has failed us repeatedly. myself as well, one of the greatest regrets that i will always carry is not having done more on this issue. there should be some shame in that for all of us and when will it be different? when will we see this and react differently? we hope it's this one. we hope it's this shooting, but it may be the next one. >> david jolly, families, these

images that we're just getting in are the worst kinds of things you can see come through. these are families likely waiting for news of their -- of their babies. this is an elementary school. this is a live shot of families, the aftermath of a live shooting, mass shooting at an elementary school in uvalde, texas, two children are dead, 13 have been injured. they are being treated for those injuries. frank figliuzzi, when you think about how often this heinous ritual, this picture we've aired before, we've seen parents in parkland, we've seen parents in newtown. i grew up in sort of the shadow of columbine, and we're now watching parents of the youngest of kids that go to school waiting for news of their loved ones. what are your thoughts?

>> this happens according to the fbi statistics just out, it happened over 60 times last year, nicolle, active shooters as defined by the fbi. and again as your gut is telling you, i think we're seeing an increased number of these. you are absolutely right. the report just out tells us over 50% increase over the last year. 97% increase in the last five years. and so we need to do something about that and again -- >> frank, let me interrupt you. frank, i'm sorry. texas governor abbott has just confirmed that 14 children are dead. one teacher is dead. 14 children have died in the texas city of uvalde in a shooting. the 18-year-old suspect is described by law enforcement there as not at large. 14 students are dead today,

frank. >> you know, i don't even have words, nicolle. if you're a parent, if you're not a parent, it doesn't matter. this tugs at your heart. if you're a law enforcement officer, and that's something i can share with others, i know someone. i went to high school with someone who became a police officer in connecticut and was a sergeant responding to the sandy hook shooting. he says it was the worst thing he's ever experienced in his life, that crime scene. he came out of there and told the other police officers that he was responsible for, if you do not have to go inside that building for an official purpose, do not go in there because you will regret it, and that is what first responders and police officers now west of san antonio are going to experience, the most horrific crime scene of their lives that they have to professionally respond to and process and make a case for, but they have to do

it through horrific emotions that are tearing at them at this time. >> and what is the profiling start to look like? how does that take shape, frank, of a shooter who would kill 14 children and one teacher? >> well, so sad but we actually have a template here, don't we? we have a go by. and that's the newtown shooter and then the age group we're talking about, 18, we've seen it over and over again as recently as the buffalo shooting a couple of weeks ago. the el paso walmart shooting, the parkland shooting. this is something that behavioral science folks at quantico, the fbi academy are all too familiar with, but to get into the details and categorize this particular shooter, they're going to have to tear into his devices, his reading, his searches, his friends, his parents, all of that will become clear probably quite rapidly is my guess. the targeting of young children in particular is something that

is studied because it often comes with modeling the behavior of other shooters. so don't be surprised. again, this is very early. we don't know this. we don't know if there's a beef against teachers or something in this school, but don't be surprised if we see this shooter modeling or emulating or just praising past shooters at school shootings. don't be surprised if we see internet searches that involve sandy hook or perhaps the parkland shooting. don't be surprised if the buffalo shooter somehow influenced this person in some sick and twisted way. >> frank, i remember the reporting that you're talking about and to this day to be in newtown is to feel all of that grief and all of that trauma and

all of the heinousness of what a human being can do to babies, the victims were 5 and 6 years old. teachers were among themment such an eerie, eerily reminiscent in terms of our early information that we have on this shooting. again, texas governor governor confirmed that 14 students have died in a shooting in uvalde, texas. that's west of san antonio, texas. one teacher was also killed. an 18-year-old suspect is not at large, so we assume that to mean, frank, in police custody. >> well, you know, it's very careful language, isn't it, not at large. >> indeed. >> it doesn't say "in custody." it could be that the shooter is deceased, and that could be at his own hand or it could be -- >> oh, frank, frank, you're so smart and you're ahead of us. from the governor, from governor abbott, the suspect is dead. so it seems like you were deducing that from the language of the statement, weren't you? >> yeah, and again, not unusual

to see an attempted suicide there or we may have a situation where school resource officer or armed teacher took action and engaged or simply a quick response by law enforcement. we'll find that out. but again, suicide is not unusual in these cases. the unique aspect of targeting school children, elementary children, often, again, this is conjecture, but it's based on experience, often comes with the notion that i can make a name for myself if i get -- i can get maximum publicity if i hit an elementary school. i want to talk about that for a second, because the fbi report i've been referencing that's come out just yesterday actually, the fbi took a position on how to deal with this in the media. so it's something we should all be paying attention to. and that is, they believe in the no-name philosophy, which means that they don't believe we should be using the shooter's

name, even after the shooter is identified. they don't believe we should be feeding the desire for attention. they believe we can actually help mitigate the -- a future, the possibility of future shooters by them realizing that we're going to focus on the community. we're going to focus on the law enforcement responders. we're going to focus on the victims and their families. we're going to focus on those heroes who took action. we're not going to mention the name of the shooter. that's something the fbi has just taken a position on within the last 24 hours in their report. >> you know, frank, with your careful guidance, we have never, on our show, named the buffalo shooter, and i -- when you talk in the earliest minutes after news breaks about how deeply a shooter like this studies past mass shootings and massacres, particularly of children, some of that law enforcement guidance makes a whole lot of sense. i want to do two things.

i want to update anyone just joining us about the breaking news. it's of the most heinous variety. a mass shooting in texas has brought the deaths of 14 elementary school students today. one teacher has also been killed. texas governor abbott confirms that the suspect is dead. i want to share some other information we have about the shooter. this is from governor abbott, who made some remarks in texas and described the shooter as a 19-year-old male who resides also in uvalde. it is believed that he -- again, this is governor abbott's information. abandoned his vehicle and entered the robb elementary school with a handgun and he may have also had a rifle. that's not yet confirmed. the governor says he shot and killed horrifically and comprehensively 14 students and also killed a teacher.

i want to bring in my colleague, morgan chesky, who is familiar with this part of texas. he's on his way to the scene of this tragedy. morgan, what can you add to our understanding of today's tragedy? >> yeah, nicole, good afternoon, just getting an update from texas governor greg abbott within the last few minutes. i'm a few minutes outside uvalde right now and i have seen no shortage of several dozen texas state troopers speed by, headed to the scene where this heartbreaking situation is playing out. as you mentioned, this began late this morning. we know that uvalde police were initially dispatched to robb elementary around 11:45 a.m. to reports of an active shooter. we have a press conference here that we expect to happen within just the next few minutes where we hope to learn more about the circumstances involving their response and what took place when that shooter entered that school that was quickly placed on lockdown for hours.

we know that, i believe, some teachers are still under lockdown orders right now as the district works to reunite students with their parents at a safe location. i've spoken to several people who live in uvalde, and the shock is tough to put into words right now. this is a community of just about 15,000 people on the edge of the texas hill country, and it is not a place, nor is any place, one that anticipates a tragedy like this. we'll have a full report coming up later tonight on nbc "nightly news," but again, texas governor greg abbott reporting those 14 students killed in uvalde and that one teacher. nicole? >> morgan, we had reports of some students perhaps receiving medical attention. is it your understanding that everyone that had been targeted by the shooter has either lost their life or is there another group of students that's

currently suffering from their injuries but receiving care? the numbers seem to suggest that everyone that the shooter targeted has lost their life. >> reporter: the numbers suggest that, nicole. we know that uvalde memorial hospital confirmed that two people have lost their lives, and 13 were being treated at the hospital. we'll hopefully confirm that in this press conference set to take place here again in just a few minutes from officials there at the scene. obviously, there is a lot of unknowns at this hour, and that's why we're hoping to gain some much-needed clarity here very soon. >> morgan, i know you're on your way to the scene and preparing for your reporting for nightly, but if you get there and you learn anything new, please wave an arm and we'll get you right on the air as soon as you have anything for us. thank you so much for joining our coverage. frank figliuzzi, i want to read something else that's in governor abbott's update. he confirms in his statement that the shooter is deceased and

is believed that responding officers killed the shooter. >> yeah, again, the statistics are showing, from last year's study, that the police are getting -- and again, this is a proficiency you don't want to get as a law enforcement officer, because of experience, but they're getting proficient at eliminating the threat of active shooter once it's started. the number of active shooters last year that were neutralized by law enforcement has -- is the highest it's ever been, and so sadly, why is that? it's because of experience. it's because our police departments are having to rehearse, drill, exercise, practice, and it's because more of these active shooters are willing to be taken out and killed for whatever cause, whatever twisted cause they have. but that's what the studies are showing us.

more law enforcement response, engagement, more elimination of the threat by law enforcement. >> frank, david jolly, i think, spoke for every parent who's very young child comes home and describes their first active shooter drill. for my son, he was in preschool, and what he learned was that they had to be very quiet and not to make any noise so that the bad people wouldn't hear them. talk about what our kids go through in preparation for what you said is a tragic thing that law enforcement and very young students, as youngs 3 and 4 years old, prepare for active shootings in their schools. >> you know, we talked about the police getting better at response. schools are getting better at doing the active shooter drills and lockdown exercises in a way that frightens children far

less, and some of the best school districts that i am aware of happen to be in colorado, probably no coincidence, because of the shooting there at columbine. but those kinds of drills that are done well and not in a frightful way involve telling children, it's time to listen. we're going to do a listening drill. you're going to listen to everything the teacher says, and in order to do that, you've got to be extremely quiet. and let's see who listens the best. and in some elementary schools, i've seen drills that involve, hey, you know, there's a bear loose outside or there's a tiger loose outside and we're going to lock our doors until that animal goes away. but we'll have to be very quiet so that they don't hear us, but you know, that's where we are right now, getting better at police response, getting better at not frightening children, all for a very frightful reality in our society, which is that we're killing ourselves in record numbers.

>> if you're just joining us, i want to update you on the tragedy that we are covering. it's 5:00 in the east. we are covering a mass shooting at a texas elementary school in the town of uvalde, texas. it is west, about 77 miles west of san antonio, texas. texas governor abbott has confirmed that 14 students have been killed -- 13 have been killed and a teacher has been killed as well. morgan chesky of nbc news confirmed some of the details of the law enforcement response. at 11:45 a.m., law enforcement in uvalde responded to an active shooter call. texas governor abbott confirms that the suspect is deceased. it is believed that the responding officers killed the shooter. what we know about the shooter, we are following frank

figliuzzi's guidance on not naming him. his name is known. he's a 19-year-old male who resided in uvalde, texas. it is believed that he abandoned his vehicle and entered the robb elementary school with a handgun, and governor abbott says this, "he may have also had a rifle. " but that was not confirmed at the time of texas governor abbott's public statements. what is happening now, we are waiting a press conference from law enforcement officials in uvalde, texas. we understand that the students who have been killed are the -- we don't know for certain if there's anyone still at the hospital. as our reporter morgan chesky reports, the numbers suggest that the shooter's victims have been killed. frank, as we await this news conference from law enforcement -- actually, let me bring david jolly back in before

we do that. there is something about this first briefing that sears your mind. i remember the first newtown briefing. i remember the first parkland briefing. i remember the first buffalo briefing. the news doesn't tend to get better after these first reports. >> yeah, i think as a news conference is held, it personalizes it, right? we will learn more about the school. we will learn more, ultimately, about the children as they're identified. we will learn of grieving parents, and i think, look, you know, i spoke earlier about culture and politics. uvalde, texas, will now hold a place in american history alongside parkland and sandy hook and columbine and all the other mass shootings, but in this case, on a school campus, and i think we ultimately, then, will get to, are there political ramifications? are there legislative ramifications, i suppose, we should keep it in that lane. and i think history suggests there will probably be very little. the one point of optimism is after parkland, the state legislature,

republican-dominated, did come together and pass a red flag law that frank was speaking about earlier. so, i think as we learn more, we will grieve with the families. we hopefully will grieve as a nation. we will hope there is some activism and action that comes out of this, if not in congress, perhaps in the texas state legislature. >> david jolly, they are still burying the dead in buffalo, new york. the rev was here yesterday from funerals there. we are a country that does not finish burying the dead from one mass shooting before we are drawn to another one. >> and we do nothing. i mean, we just -- the four schools i mentioned kind of roll off our tongues, but then we also know the synagogue in pittsburg, we know san diego, el paso. we know the shootings in buffalo, the orlando pulse nightclub. we are a nation that is unique in the western world where somehow we've adopted this theory that more guns make us safer. but if more guns made us saver, we'd be the safest nation in the

world and we're not. and one of the scariest places in the country today is at elementary schools as parents take their kids to school tomorrow. for many schools, this is the last week. this is a time of celebration. but until we move that anxiety and that fear and hopefully that shame into actual legislative activism, we're failing ourselves, and we're failing our kids. and to be honest, like, look, every member of congress sits there today with their own personal journey. yeah, they're protected and insulated by election laws and by a party, but guess what? they have a personal legacy on the line, and maybe we start reminding them about their personal legacy. are they doing enough today to prevent 14 kids from being killed tomorrow in another public school? i would suggest they're not. and why don't we hold them accountable and suggest that they act now? >> 15 families today having the worst days of their lives. 14 students and one teacher a has been killed in a mass shooting in uvalde, texas.

we're awaiting a news conference from authorities there. but we do know that the shooter was 19 years old, stopped his car, abandoned his vehicle and entered the robb elementary school with a handgun and governor abbott reports he may have also had a rifle. joining us now, former secretary of the department of housing and urban development, the former mayor of san antonio, texas, which is not too far from uvalde, julian castro. thank you so much for being part of our live coverage. it is the worst kind of breaking news, as you know. but please tell us a little bit about what you know of where this tragedy has taken place today. >> yeah. thanks, nicole. it really is the saddest news that we can get, and unbelievable to have, essentially, another sandy hook situation a decade later. uvalde is a tight-knit community about an hour or so west of san antonio. a place of a lot of hardworking folks, folks who know each

other, classic small town there in texas. very surprising that something like this would happen in a town like uvalde. obviously, every parent's worst nightmare. i have a child, a 7-year-old, who is in elementary school now and i think as david was mentioning, parents are looking forward to the end of the school year and having their kids home for the summer and to think that something like this has happened, especially in such a tight-knit community like uvalde, this comes against the backdrop, of course, in texas of a state that has been one of the most lax states when it comes to any restrictions on the possession of firearms. just recently, the state instituted what's known as constitutional carry, basically, anyone over the age of 18 without getting a traditional permit or going through any training can have a firearm.

they've resisted in the legislature any kind of restrictions on ownership. of course, the leadership here in texas from governor abbott to lieutenant governor patrick and others have been steadfast supporters of the gun rights movement so that's the backdrop of what's happening here in texas. >> i hate to ask this question, because i think if newtown taught us anything, if parkland taught us anything, it's that at the federal level, nothing ever changes, but do you believe the fresh horror of 14 elementary school students gunned down today before lunchtime in uvalde, texas, changes the national conversation? >> you know, like a lot of folks, i hope that it does. i hope that this gives us the wake-up call, the shock to the system that we need and let's be specific here that it gives a few politicians in washington who have been standing in the way of being able to get

something done on common sense gun control the courage to actually cast that vote. we thought that we were there after what happened in newtown. it didn't happen. perhaps everything that we've seen, including what happened just a few days ago in buffalo and now this tragedy today, will give folks the moral courage that they need and the common sense that they need to finally cast the right vote and start making sure that all of us are safer starting with our children as we see here today. >> they are still burying the victims of the mass shooting in buffalo. i said it a minute ago, the reverend al sharpton has been at some of those services, and what are your concerns about the clip at which this seems to be happening in america today? >> well, this has become part of who we are as a country. it's become part of our culture. and it's unbelievable that we

can accept this as the ordinary course of living in the united states of america. the free availability of guns has not made us safer in the united states or here in the state of texas. we have to recognize that each time one of these incidents happens, it's not an outlier anymore. it's not something that is unique or that is different. this happens all the time, and we have to put a stop to it. >> frank, i want to bring you back in to our conversation as we await this first press conference from law enforcement officials in uvalde, texas, as the secretary's described it, about one hour west of san antonio, texas, 14 students have been killed today by a 19-year-old shooter that the "new york times" describes him as 18. our age for him is 19. at your recommendation, frank, we know his name, we won't broadcast it here on my hour by

the governor of texas describes him as having a handgun and perhaps also a rifle. what is the solution in a place like texas to making sure an 18-year-old doesn't have a handgun and possibly a rifle? >> well, as we've just heard, as of september 1, this year, texas made it extremely easy to purchase a gun without any license, permit, or training required. they're quite proud of that, and i know people are going to look at our discussion, nicole, and say, look, this is a time for grieving, why are they talking about legislation? why are they talking about solutions? why are they getting into politics? here's my response to that. i'm tired of grieving, and i'm particularly tired of grieving for elementary school children who are about as innocent as you can get in terms of a victim pool, so it's time to do something about it. and if you want to view this as a teachable moment, then so be it, but we're talking about a state that's made it easier to

get weapons and to get weapons into the hands of people who shouldn't have them. and so, yes, we need to learn the facts here, but i can already predict certain responses from certain corners, which will be, this is a mental health issue. this kid was troubled. we've heard it about buffalo. we hear it about every time a young person shoots somebody. so if it's a mental health problem, let's do something about that. what are you doing about it? what are you doing to make it harder for someone who may have a history of mental illness to get their hands on a gun? if you ask the average american on the street, should someone with a history of mental health or making threats, if you look at the parkland shooting and the shooting of the young man up north, all teachers, guidance counselors, even, in the case of parkland police officers saying, there's a problem here. what are you doing about it? let's not throw up our hands and say, well, it's the second amendment issue, we can't talk about it. no, we should be talking about

it. and now's the time to do that. >> mr. secretary, do you think that if the gun safety community and advocates came to the table and said, let's do all of the above, it is too grave, we are still burying the dead in buffalo, and we have 14 dead students today and one dead teacher in uvalde, texas. let's do everything. do you think that changes the tone and tenor of the debate about gun safety in congress? >> well, i mean, i think that there have been groups and leaders in that movement that have been willing to compromise and try to find common ground, starting with, for instance, universal background checks, but as you know, nicole, even on that simple measure, close to 90% of americans say they support, republicans in congress and perhaps a couple of democrats too have been resistant to even that kind of change. now, a couple of years ago,

after we'd experienced a mass shooting at southerland springs, one of the churches there in that small community, governor abbott did convene what he called sort of a task force to try and look at potential solutions on gun violence and then it never went anywhere. it was like it was all for show. but as part of that effort, there were folks who stepped up and said, okay, look, we realize that the state of texas is a state where we're not going to get probably the most significant steps on gun control, but perhaps we can find a compromise. it didn't work. because unfortunately, governor abbott and so many republican politicians like him seemed to be in the pocket of gun manufacturers and the nra, and i'm sorry if that sounds political. it is today. but the fact is that because of that, we keep seeing people getting killed, including little children like we're seeing today in uvalde, and that is completely unacceptable. it is not who we are or should

be. >> i want to share with our viewers two updates. john heilemann has joined us at the table to help us cover this horrific tragedy in uvalde, texas. and we have a new statement from texas governor abbott on the shooting at robb elementary school in uvalde. i'll read it to you, all of you. we'll read it together. texans across the state are grieving for the victims of this senseless crime and for the community of uvalde. cecilia and i mourn this horrific loss and we urge all texans to come together to show our unwavering support to all who are suffering. we thank the courageous first responders who worked to finally secure robb elementary school. i have instructed the texas department of public safety and the texas rangers to work with local law enforcement to fully investigate this crime. the texas division of emergency management is charged with providing local officials all resources necessary to respond to this tragedy as the state of texas works to ensure the community has what it needs to heal.

i don't know that there is much of anything that any government agency can do to help a community heal from the massacre of 14 students and 1 teacher, frank figliuzzi. but in terms of resources, what is it that aids local law enforcement the most? >> you know, if we're talking about the aftermath of this horror, we're talking about, especially in a small town community, we're talking about evidence response. we're talking about professional teams that will come in. i'm sure the local -- the nearest fbi office, which likely might be san antonio, will come in and say, look, do you want an evidence response team? because they'll come in from -- on a national level and they'll reconstruct this. they'll know exactly what happened. they can help with interviews. but again, we are photographing the wreckage. we need to prevent the wreckage, and in that regard, the resources have to go toward gun

enforcement, and the atf is one of the smallest federal law enforcement agencies there are. they don't have a director. president biden has nominated a former united states attorney, steve, for the position of atf director. will congress come to agreement on someone enforcing the gun laws, just the existing gun laws? i hope so. are we ever going to get to the point where atf is adequately staffed so that we don't have to come on the air and talk about the wrong people having guns? i doubt it in this current environment. but we could start by enforcing the laws. we can start by looking at pending bills in congress that are languishing. just simply closing the gun show loophole so that everyone who buys a gun has to be subjected to a background check. and then closing the loophole that happened in the south carolina church shooting in

charleston by the young man there. >> let's listen to -- frank, we're going to tune into this news conference under way in uvalde, texas. >> good afternoon. as she mentioned, i'm going to make a statement, and at this point, i won't take any questions. we will give you a time where we'll be addressing the media soon. at approximately 11:32 a.m. this morning, there was a mass casualty incident at robb elementary school in uvalde, texas. the school has children that are in second, third, and fourth grade. i can confirm right now that we have several injuries, adults and students, and we do have some deaths. the suspect is deceased at this point. dps assisting with the investigation, and at this point, the investigation is leading to tell us that the suspect did act alone during this heinous crime. families are being notified, and we are providing services to

them as the district should. as far as the rest of the district is concerned, safety measures were taken to make sure that we had a safe release for the rest of the district. throughout our city of uvalde. and we had numerous law enforcement officers and agencies that assisted with the safe release for those students. we do want to keep all their families in our prayers and we want to respect the privacy of the family. it is still being worked on and again, we'll notify the parents and the families as soon as we have some news for them. thank you so much. >> we greatly appreciate your understanding and patience with us. please know at this time, we are only making a statement. we will be releasing more information as the investigation continues. we appreciate your courtesy. at this time, it concludes our press conference. thank you. >> first public statement from law enforcement officials in uvalde, texas, that confirm a

mass casualty event consistent with our correspondent morgan chesky's timing, they responded at 11:32 to a mass casualty event there. the school that was targeted, some elementary schools have different combinations of young kids. this elementary school, robb elementary school in uvalde, texas, had second, third, and fourth graders there today who became victims of the latest mass shooting in the united states of america. law enforcement officials there said a little less than what texas's governor abbott has reported. we heard there are several injuries, some deaths, confirmation that the suspect is dead, and confirmation that the suspect acted alone. frank figliuzzi, what jumps out at you from this briefing? >> well, first, as you said, very limited information, and the governor's office will need to coordinate tightly with the local authorities in terms of statements and release of facts,

but acting alone, that's a quick -- that's a quick conclusion to that, and so why do we know that so early? maybe they've already looked at history. maybe they've already seen videotape. maybe they've already talked to parents, and maybe, just maybe, and this is something that no law enforcement agency ever wants, but they're checking their records, their files, their indexes, and maybe someone's encountered him before, and maybe he's acted out or threatened before. so we have a fairly quick conclusion that he was acting alone here. >> john heilemann, i want to bring you into this coverage. i can't stop thinking about president barack obama's efforts after newtown. he was the country's president during newtown. we just got an update from the white house, from the new white

house press secretary, who tweets that president biden has been briefed on the horrific news of the elementary school shooting in texas and will continue to be briefed regularly as information becomes available. she adds his prayers with with the families impacted by this awful event. he will speak this evening when he arrives back at the white house if that should happen, we'll obviously turn to that immediately, but he was the vice president during newtown. he was president obama's sort of legislative tip of the spear. i don't know that i have ever seen president obama express as much public fury and despair at the fact that nothing changed after newtown, and i am rooted in the reality of those events after newtown from president obama and vice president biden in any conversations about whether the massacre of 14 elementary school students who, based on that briefing, were in second, third, or fourth grade, and at least one of their teachers will change anything. >> yeah, you know, there were obviously mass shootings before

newtown, but i think we all remember that one, probably because it was so horrific but also because of the intensity of the emotion that barack obama showed in that -- in the immediate aftermath of it and then in the failure of being able to get anything done. the guy whose composure and reserve marked his presidency in a lot of cases, did not shed a lot of tears openly from behind the podium or behind the resolute desk and yet he did regularly on this question and i think if you were to take him aside, it is probably the thing that racks him emotionally more than anything else that happened in his presidency, and you know, joe biden, of course, has this history of being in the crime bill -- >> here's someone else with this history, john. this is chris murphy of connecticut. >> what are we doing? why do you spend all this time running for the united states senate? why do you go through all the hassle of getting this job, of putting yourself in a position

of authority, if your answer is that, as the slaughter increases, as our kids run for their lives, we do nothing. what are we doing? why are you here? if not to solve a problem as existential as this. this isn't inevitable. these kids weren't unlucky. this only happens in this country. and nowhere else. nowhere else do little kids go to school thinking they might be shot that day. nowhere else do parents have to talk to their kids about why they got locked into a bathroom and told to be quiet just in case a bad man entered that building. nowhere else does that happen except here in the united states of america and it is a choice.

it is our choice to let it continue. what are we doing? in sandy hook elementary school, after those kids came back into those classrooms, they had to adopt a practice in which there would be a safe word that the kids would say if they started to get thoughts in their brain about what they saw that day. if they started to get nightmares during the day, reliving stepping over their classmates' bodies as they tried to flee the school. in one classroom, that word was "monkey." and over and over, through the day, kids would stand up and yell "monkey" and a teacher r paraprofessional would have to go to that kid, take them out of the classroom, talk to them about what they had seen, work

them through their issues. sandy hook will never, ever be the same. this community in texas will never, ever be the same. why? why are we here? if not to try to make sure that fewer schools and fewer communities go through what sandy hook has gone through, what uvalde is going through. our heart is breaking for these families. every ounce of love and thoughts and prayers we can send, we are sending. but i'm here on this floor to beg, to literally get down on my hands and knees and beg my colleagues, find a path forward here. work with us to find a way to pass laws that make this less likely. i understand my republican colleagues will not agree to everything that i may support,

but there is a common denominator that we can find. there is a place where we can achieve agreement, that may not guarantee that america never, ever again sees a mass shooting. that may not overnight cut in half the number of murders that happen in america. it will not solve the problem of american violence by itself, but by doing something, we at least stop sending this quiet message of endorsement to these killers whose brains are breaking, who see the highest levels of government doing nothing, shooting after shooting. what are we doing? why are we here? what are we doing?

i yield the floor. >> john heilemann, what are we doing? >> i don't know, i was going to -- we started to talk about obama and sandy hook and as i'm watching chris murphy there, i'm thinking about something else. i've never shot a gun. it's not really interesting to me. and i will say more about this but i didn't grow up in a gun-owning family. did you have guns in your hands? >> no, i never shot a gun. >> i never shot one. not interested in shooting one. it's not a thing for me. it's foreign to me. but i have tried over time to understand, obviously, it's a constitution -- the constitution says we have the right to bear arms. i understand people's devotion to constitutional principles, i do understand that. and i understand people who have explained to me, people in my family, my broader family, and friends, the tradition of owning guns and families that hunt with them and enjoy that. again, shooting animals in the forest has no appeal to me but i understand family traditions and

i understand why those things can have powerful holds on people. i do. i understand it. it's not my thing, but i understand it. back in 2015, when greg abbott was running for governor, he tweeted -- there was a story that appeared in the -- in a local texas blog that reported that texans in the previous year had applied to acquire a million guns in the previous year. and it said -- it noted that texas was number two in the country. california has applied more than a million guns and greg abbott running for governor then tweeted, i'm embarrassed. texas, number two in the nation for gun purchases, behind california? let's pick up the pace, texans. so i know people are going to get mad i'm politicizing this, but i can understand why you might have a family tradition of owning a gun. i just don't understand why anybody who is in a position of authority or seeking to be the governor or the president or a mayor or a congressman would

think it was a good thing, something you would be -- that you would tweet something like that, that the notion that your state, a state he was then seeking to be governor of and now has been governor of for a long time, that it would be somehow desirable that his state ramp up its gun supply. 29 million people in texas. a million guns a year. you get to a gun for every man, woman, and child pretty quick in texas and obviously there's not even distribution of that, but that is sick. and it's part of, there are so many sicknesses in what we see here. it's like there's political sickness. there's cultural sickness. there's mental illness. it's all so sick and so broken. moments when i think everything's broken in the country right now but when i see this, it's the most heartbreakingly broken thing. but the notion that if you're going to have people in positions of authority who beat their chests and get money from supporters who like this kind of, i don't know what it is,

machismo, the notion, again, you want to be a hunter, go be a hunter. the idea that you would be a politician who would dine out on, get power from, get money from somehow taking pride in the notion that we should be number one. we need more than a million guns a year in texas. why? and that, to me, is part of -- there's nothing, no big conclusion here. it's just like, as you try to diagnose the various elements of the sickness that have us in a place where we see this happen at the pace you've been talking about. you're sitting here in tears. i know people all over the place are in tears, hundreds of miles away, every time this happens, people who are close to you are stunned and mortified and in tears and feel a pain in their stomach and can't understand what the hell's going on in the country, and there's not one answer to any of that. but i'll tell you that a country that glorifies and elects people who wander around saying, a million guns a year is not enough, we should be ashamed. i'm embarrassed. we need more than a million guns

a year here in texas. that is a big part of the sickness, and you ask, like, you sow -- as you sow, so shall you reap. i'm not -- i feel nothing but sympathy for those in texas who are suffering. but leadership like that, and obviously, these things happen in states all over the country, not just republican states, democratic states too, but that is part of a culture that is not evenly distributed across the country and it's not everyone, but it's just too prevalent to have too many leaders who talk this way about a culture that, whatever its other virtues, it can't be stockpiling the most weapons is going to lead to a good place, and we see it every day. it's not. it's led to a horrifying place. a tragic place. a place that we find incomprehensible that we live in this country where it happens this frequently. it breaks my brain as much as it breaks my heart. >> today, 15 families in uvalde, texas, getting the most horrific

news of their lives, 14 students have been killed there, one teacher is among the dead. law enforcement in uvalde not giving us much new information, just that this school, this elementary school, robb elementary school, is a school for second, third, and fourth graders. matthew dowd, who is a long-time friend of mine, he's also familiar to all of you as a political strategist and the founder of country over party and an msnbc analyst, matthew, around conversations about voter fraud, you often cited how little voter fraud and how many gun deaths and shootings and legal guns there are in texas, that is your home state. these are your neighbors and 15 of them have had the most horrific nightmares come true today. >> yeah, nicole. i mean, this is heart wrenching. uvalde's -- i've been to uvalde a number of times. it's a great town.

it's about 70% hispanic. uvalde's about 70% hispanic, which has grown over the course of the last 30 years in texas. i mean, this is just wrenching because every single political leader in office, republican in texas, and all held by statewide, wants to do nothing about gun reform. we've actually, in spite of all of this, and i have said this stat before, last year, 4,000 people were victims of gun violence in texas. we had 16 people that supposedly voted illegally out of 11 million in the last election we had. 16. and 4,000 people died of gun violence in texas. and gun owning is a big thing here. as i've said before, i'm -- i own five guns. i own three shotguns and two rifles. in uvalde, a big part of the culture in uvalde is hunting. parents and fathers and mothers take their kids hunting.

it's a big deer hunting area. you can hunt hogs in uvalde in the surrounding areas. it's -- and most gun owners are exceedingly responsible, and most gun owners like myself are 1,000% for gun reform. one thing people don't realize, we talk about, well, the laws are on the books and blah, blah, blah. 50% of -- 50% of the guns sold in texas, because of the loopholes, do not pass through a background check. half the guns sold in texas, because of the loopholes that exist, do not pass through a background check. and so, to me, the majority of gun owners support gun reform. the majority of gun owners support universal background checks that apply to everybody. the majority of gun owners think you should have a license and training. if you openly carry a gun. and that's the last law that republicans here in texas passed, which is you can walk around with any kind of gun you want with no license and no

training. openly carry a handgun, a rifle, an assault weapon, anything. you can openly carry it here. and the tragedy of this is, and we just did a series of conversations, as you know, about what happened in buffalo, and i said at the time we could probably do this panel every two or three days, and you know, god bless it, we're doing it again. with elementary school kids. we have people shot at a grocery store in buffalo. walmart outside of el paso. it's over and over again. the voters want it. the citizens want it. the citizens of texas want it. they want some sort of gun reform, and it's not going to -- as the senator from connecticut said, it's not going to stop every single thing, and a crazy person with a gun is going to do bad things, but at least we could demonstrate that we value life as much as we value the

ownership of a gun. let's just start there. let's just say we value life as much as we value the ownership of a gun. and there's some simple things that we can do, as i said, that a majority of gun owners, but this is -- uvalde's 90 miles -- it's an hour and a half from here. it's a great, beautiful area. the people are wonderful. every time i've gone there, it's an awesome place. it's mainly farming and agriculture with some oil and gas. people are middle class -- mostly middle class people. it's not a wealthy area at all. people are just trying to live their lives and go through their things, and as i said, many of them hunt. many of them, you know, take their child to go shoot their first deer. they're all responsible, all of those people are responsible, but the problem is we have not demonstrated that there's some standard by which people are going to be judged if you own a gun. if you have a gun in texas.

we're basically saying, carry as many as you want, do basically whatever you want. if you get caught and you do something bad, we're going to punish you in this, but we do nothing to try to prevent tragedies from this happening again and again and again. and if this is not many miles -- i'll just remind people. this is not many miles from the mass shooting that happened south of san antonio at a church. so, it's tragic. i hope we can do more. we want to do more. but that's where we're at. >> connecticut senator chris murphy, we just carried some incredibly passionate remarks that he made on the floor of the senate. about life as a child in the united states of america. the victims, 14 students who died today, were second, third, and fourth graders. this story broke as i came on the air, and i have a fourth grader, and it's hard to imagine what it's like for any of those

families, and fred guttenberg is here. it doesn't feel fair to ask you to be part of this coverage, fred, but when i think about what you have shared with all of us and what your gift is and always in honor of jamie, is to help people understand the horror of a day like today, and if chris murphy has his way, and he was on his knees on the senate floor asking us to do more than nothing, that's all he asked for. that we do more than nothing this time. it is because of your courage and choice to honor your daughter by sharing the horror of this day, and so if there's anything that you can share about how you got through this and what these families are going through today, i just wanted to hear you talk. >> first, nicole, you're going to make me cry.

and to my friend, senator murphy, thank you. because there are people in this country who want to do something about this. unfortunately, they all currently live in one political party. and senator murphy's been fighting this fight for a long time. you're in texas right now, where the shooting happened in texas, the senators there are not like senator murphy. the governor there, he's not like senator murphy. that lieutenant governor, he's not like senator murphy. in fact those -- i'm trying hard not to curse, nicole. but i'm shaking. but i'd like to tell them all to go f off because what they did, what they do, the way they politicize guns and violence led us to this day where -- and i don't know what the latest number is. i think we have 14 dead.

parents, loved ones, who their world is spinning. who right now have to think, how am i going to plan a funeral? who right now have to think, what kind of casket? who right now have to think, all i did was send them to school. and i have to plan their funeral. and i have to write a eulogy. i have to comfort those who i love. my other children, my spouse, my friends, my neighbors. i have to figure out how to go forward. i'll be honest, nicole, it took me a good solid 24 hours before my world stopped spinning to the point where i really kind of grasped what was happening. i am simply going to say this to

the families there. you're going to go through pain. it's not right. and it shouldn't be. but i am here for you. and others will be here for you. you will be okay. you will find a path forward. but for the next bunch of days and weeks, you have to get through this. this horror. because people failed. they failed our kids again, okay? i'm done. i've had it. you know, how many more times? and we're going to sit back -- i'm going to listen to that governor of texas talk about why he pushed to fight laws and for laws in texas that made it easier for the guns to be had by those who want to kill. how many more times?

i don't -- i mean, i'm sorry. i'm speechless. i don't know what to say. but you know what? tomorrow, i'm going to wake up, we're going to keep fighting. because as long as there's people like you and people like senator murphy and you know, i look on the house, they're trying to pass things. i look at a president who will sign legislation that makes it to his desk. this was predictable, but it was also preventable. sadly, the next one that's going to happen is also predictable. if we keep doing nothing. and so, i am begging senator cruz. i sat with you in your office two years or so ago. i listened to your nonsense. i listened to your b.s. i listened to you explain to me why you thought we didn't need the bare minimum of effective background checks. march into senator murphy's office right now, tonight, and you be the republican who says,

i've had enough. because if you don't, get your ass out of office. you don't belong there. i'm sorry. >> no. fred, what is -- i mean, what never adds up is that you've got 85% of the american people who are for gun safety. no one's talking about taking anyone's guns away. >> no. >> and you've got, as you said, one of the two parties that won't come to the table on an 85% solution. what is chris murphy talking about when he's begging his colleagues to come to the table? and he said, you may not agree with everything i want to do, that's fine. what is sort of, in your view or what do you think he's talking about when he's speaking about what is achievable if we take this moment and let the loss of 14 students and 1 teacher change this intractable place we're in as a country where this happens and we do nothing. >> it is the ultimate question.

the issue isn't the american people, because you can't get 85%, 90% of the american people to agree on a car color. but they agree they want to do something about gun violence. and so, the question is, why doesn't it happen? it's not that it can't. there is a party dedicated to making sure it doesn't. there is a lobby that profits off of the fact that this happened today. and a party that is aligned with that industry that profits. and so, listen, i hope any member of that party -- i'd like to see it be the senators from texas since this just happened in texas -- but any member of that party, i'd love to see them walk up to senator murphy right now and say, i was wrong. let's do this. because that's what it's going to take. this is -- the democrats are on board. the democrats are on board. nicole, when my daughter was

killed, four-plus years ago, we were talking about 300 million weapons on the streets of america. we're now talking about 400 million plus ghost guns, okay? we didn't become safer. i listened to all the arguments of those senators, like a senator cruz, slippery slope, slippery slope. yeah, well, we've been on slippery slope. that's why we're now up a hundred million weapons. are we going to watch more kids die, or are we going to do something? >> it's a point that frank figliuzzi made almost two hours ago, that it's a tragedy that we can call on you, that we know you, and we know you because your daughter died at school. what is the problem that we can't have unity around protecting schools, around this last line of a civilized society, that we send our kids to school and we can agree they should be safe there.

>> nicole, after sandy hook, wayne lapierre, i think four days after sandy hook, went out and for the very first time uttered the lie, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. he did that right after sandy hook. that was his response to sandy hook. and people should never forget it. that was the first time that line got uttered. and amazingly, because of the money they spent to own a group of physicians, that lie evolved into sounding normal. into something they fight for. well, you know what, nicole? this needs to be the school shooting where the idea of saving children should become the normal response. where the idea of making it

harder to get guns and ammunition because we already have 400 million weapons, so you know what? we need to focus on ammunition as well. this should be the shooting that gets all of them to understand they were wrong, and while they were spreading those lies and spreading that nonsense, more shootings, more dead kids. this should be the one when maybe one of them, two of them, three of them, i don't need it to be all of them because i've come to the conclusion that enough of them are evil and bad, but there are still some that aren't. they should be the ones that step up today and say i want to be a part of fixing this. >> fred, president joe biden, who i know you believe is doing everything he can without support from both parties in congress, he will address this when he lands again in the tragic club of having been

there. what can he say to comfort these 15 families in texas, 14 families of elementary school students and one teacher? >> you know, i think you know, nicole, he called me days after jamie was killed. and the one thing he said to me, and i remember it to this day, and it was right. the memories, the pictures that bring a tear to your eye now, that bring emotional responses now, the day will come when you'll look at those same things and you will smile again. and he was right. and i want him to let the families know that there is every reason to believe you will be okay, that you will smile

again at the memory of your loved one. and that there are people who love you and will be there for you. i have spoken to you about it before. i'm only who i am today because of all of the amazing people who stepped in and held me up and held me together. i will be there for those families, and i know an army of people across this country who feel the way that i do. they won't go through this alone. but they also need to figure out a way to get through the next few days, and if any of them are listening to this, and they would like to be able to talk to me directly, i just want them to know they can reach out to your program and you will put them in touch with me, because i will talk to any of them. >> of course. we always want to talk to you. i imagine, though, that there's something about these days that is retraumatic for you, and so for trusting us, and talking to us today, we do love you, and

from the bottom of our hearts, we thank you. >> thanks, nicole. >> thank you so much. and we will do that to anyone listening who would like to be in touch with fred, of course, we will make that connection. frank, if you're still with us, i just want to come back this idea, what is to me ceaseless optimism that this could be the last one, that it wasn't parkland where his daughter lost his life, but let this be the last one, where we don't do anything to make all americans safer, grocers in buffalo, kids in an elementary school. do you have that optimism? >> i do, because it's absolutely necessary. the alternative is to give up and ensure that nothing happens some hope translates into action is how we're going to get through this endeavor, and senator murphy's admonition that, let's find some common ground, there's got to be some

common ground. so for example -- everyone's going to offer up their ideas, but for example, can we agree that maybe you need to be 21 to buy an assault rifle? can anybody agree on that? raise your hand. is that something we can do? particularly when i see the body count, hear the numbers, tragic numbers, i think, boy, that's doable with a handgun, but nicole, sounds like maybe a rifle. certainly if it were a handgun there'd be a reload required. that takes time, so we're going to -- we could learn that a rifle was used here, likely. let's talk about this. buffalo shooter, again, a rifle. how about 21 for an assault rifle. can we agree on that? can we agree like maybe the buffalo shooter, if you the police carted you off for a mental health evaluation because

of a threat that maybe in the next year or two you can't buy a weapon? let people say no to the common sense offerings of others. well, we think it's perfectly fine if you have been carted off to the police to buy a gun within a year, as the buffalo shooter did. we think it's fine that a 18-year-old wants to lay hands on an assault rifle that can fire 30 rounds from its magazine. yeah, we think that's fine. let's find middle ground. i do think it's there. >> what's interesting is you increasingly hear from law enforcement folks this need to take ideas from -- i think -- i don't know where they go on the right, often to mental health, but let's deal with mental health. we have a crisis in this country, particularly in this age group. let's deal with the guns. do you share -- that brings optimism that conversation will be had?

>> i don't want to say this in a glib way, but no. i mean, i don't share that optimism. if the question is, is this the one after which -- now, this will be the last one. now things will change. i don't think that's the way that change works in our system, and what i mean by that is, something that fred mentioned talking about la pierre. the story isn't that complicated. it is one party almost exclusively, where a party owned to a large extent by the national rifle association, republicans have taken these positions, gotten campaign contributions and have been forced into extreme positions on guns because the fear that they will get primaried by a nra candidate on this issue, and that has become a self-reinforcing cycle. i'll note, when he talks about that, it's a similar thing we've seen with republicans over donald trump and the big lie.

you have this similar, like, well, you're willing to basically shred the democracy and tell lies and embrace conspiracy theories why? to preserve your own power, because if you don't do that you get primaried from the right. in the same way, do i think every republican -- there are republican member of congress, senator who is listened to chris murphy just now whose hearts are breaking who in their hearts know something has to change? yes, i think there are some. but if i do that, i'll get primaried. they're clinging to power. they need support, whether it's donald trump's backing when it comes to the big lie, or the nra when it comes to guns. whatever they think in their heads, their hearts, there's a lot of republicans that will not change on this issue. the reason i don't think that things will change immediately in the aftermath is because

maybe because i have been through too many of the conversations saying, this is the last one. i love that fred has that optimism. i root for him to be right. i want to be wrong about this, nicole. you know i want to be wrong about this, but i feel like the way change is going to happen is when these candidates get beaten. the candidates have to be beaten. the nra has to be broken. that linkage of money and power and self-preservation has to be snapped, and the only way that's going to happen is for people to make this issue an issue they vote on and to go out and mobilize, activate, raise money of their own and beat candidates, take seats away, change the balance of power so that the people who are stopping common sense gun reform are gone. that's the only way this is going to get changed, and that's not going to happen in the next 24 hours, 36 hours, 48 hours. it's not going to happen -- i won't make forecasts about november, but until people are sitting here with their heads and hearts broken decide, yeah,

this is an issue that supersede other issues and build coalitions around it, and raise money around it, and march in the streets around it and beat candidates who resist gun reform, we will not get gun reform. >> secretary castro, i want to ask you what you think the community needs from the country right now. i mean, i think it's insulting. sounds like a throwaway line now to send thoughts and prayers, but you know the state, the community in the state. what is it that i think anyone watching would like to be able to do. what helps? >> well, i think what helps is for us so make the change you have been talking with john and frank and fred about. ultimately -- i actually, nicole, think that he's going to get us closer to that day where we enact common sense again reform. i don't think it's going to happen necessarily in the next 24 to 48 hours or next couple of

weeks, but i remember coming up in politics here in texas, san antonio city council, mayor, watching the state over the last 20 years while -- gun reform, and there used to be a time when not even democrats would stand up to the nra. they would cower and be afraid of even espousing -- vocally espousing universal background checks and banning assault weapons, and a whole sense of other common sense policies. that change. the vast majority of democrats changed their tune on that. that is happening as more americans of every stripe see the consequences of a culture and policy that allows things like what happened today to happen. so i actually believe this is going to help us get closer to this day where we enact common sense gun reform. you remember that after what happened in newtown, senator pat

toomey of pennsylvania and senator joe manchin of west virginia got together and proposed measures to enact gun reform. now, that did not go anywhere, but i believe that we're getting closer to that day where it will and we will enact it. >> matt dowd, everything fred said is still resonating in my mind and in my heart. but he talked about what these families will go through in the coming days. they'll -- the caskets for their elementary school children. they will write eulogies. they will be swallowed by grief. it's something you talked about and have written about. what are your thoughts for these 15 families? 14 students died today, and one teacher. >> well, you know, that's what struck me as you know, nicole. i lost a daughter not through gun violence, but a child, and the only thing i can say is, do the most basic things you

possibly can. do the most basic things you possibly can. find some food. go to the grocery store. sit with people. even if it's quietly and you don't talk to people. get up out of bed as best you can, even though simplest things are going to be hard. even the toughest things are going to be hard. this is not supposed to happen. you're not supposed to lose your child. a child isn't supposed the go before you do, and that's just what happened. having experienced it, it is a -- it will change their life. it will fundamentally change their life. now, their hearts can get open and bigger and stronger in the aftermath, but i think just the simple things, just the basic most simple essential things in your life and don't lose hope. don't lose hope. because the people that don't want to do anything, what they bank on is us all losing hope and us throwing up our hands and saying nothing can be done. so do the basics. don't lose hope.

reach out to anybody you possibly can, anyone you possibly can do. sit with people, cry with people. hug if you have another child, hug your child. and try to get up and see the sunrise tomorrow, because even doing that is going to be tough. >> matthew dowd, thank you so much for being here. our breaking news coverage continues now on "the beat" with ari melber. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. thank you. breaking coverage does continue. here we are together on another mass shooting day in america. today's shooting is the deadliest of the year. 14 children, one teacher killed in uvalde, texas, where second, third, and fourth graders were evacuated amid today's horror. the suspect opened fire at 11:30 a.m. texas