happens in our schools. they don't know how to make a thriving, safe community in our schools. they need to listen to educators and they need to bring about change. we are tired of thoughts and prayers. we need action and we need our schools to be safe. >> thank you for sharing your perspective on msnbc. i appreciate it. >> thank you for watching this hour with msnbc. "deadline white house" with nicole wallace picks up right now. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> hi there, everyone. 4:00 in new york. president joe biden is expected to speak any moment now and to sign an executive order aimed at reforming policing in america. the move comes on the second anniversary of the murder of george floyd. it's an event that forced our country to confront the crisis of racism and police brutality head-on. we will air president biden's remarks live as soon as it happens. his speech and the executive order comes in which america is having to look itself in the

mirror on another topic and ask ourselves what kind of country do we want to be? a long list of communities have been ravaged by a senseless mass shooting. residents of uvalde, texas, face the task of burring 21 members of their community. that includes 19 third and fourth graders. those 21 victims were killed by an 18-year-old gunman armed with an ar-15 style rifle, the same type of rifle used in the shootings in parkland and sandy hook. the shooting taking place just two days before those students' summer break was going to begin. texas department of public safety spokesperson lieutenant chris olivara described how police officers had faced someone who as he puts it, had no regard for human life. >> the shooter was involved in a domestic disturbance with his grandmother prior to the shooting at the school. he did shoot his grandmother at that point.

he then fled in a vehicle, and was in close proximity near the school when we got calls. local law enforcement at the uvalde police department received a call of a crashed vehicle and an armed individual with a weapon enter the school. we had law enforcement, school officers and state troopers who were first on scene and were able to hear the actual gunshots inside the classroom. they tried to make entry into the building and they were met with gun fire by the suspect and the shooter. some of those officers were shot. at that point they began breaking windows around the school trying to evacuate children, teachers, anybody they could trying to get them out of that building and out of that school. what we do know at that point is the shooter was able to make entry into a classroom, barricade himself into the classroom and began shooting numerous children and teachers that were in that classroom. >> the victims in uvalde now

join what "the new york times" remarks today, the stupefying tally of gun violence. the repetition of horror numbs the mind. only 11 days ago there was buffalo, a man driven by racism gunning down 12 people at a supermarket. the next day, another angry man walked into a presbyterian church in laguna, california and killed one person and wounded five others and now uvalde, texas, a repeat of what was once thought unfathomable. the killing of at least 19 elementary schoolchildren in second, third and fourth grades. survivors of the shooting are now among the more than 311,000 children exposed and undoubtedly traumatized by gun violence at school since the shooting at columbine high school in 1999 that's according to "the washington post," despite the staggering toll of gun violence in this country. action, real, meaningful action on guns has been non-existent in

the federal level. in fact, things are going the other way. it includes two of the officials who represent uvalde. senator ted cruz and governor greg abbot both of whom are slated to attend the annual meeting of the nra this friday in houston, of course. just a few hundred miles away from where the shooting took place. in a speech last night, a clearly exasperated president joe biden urged americans to turn their pain into action. >> as a nation, we have to ask when in god's name are we going to stand up to the gun lobby? when in god's name will we do what we all know in our gut needs to be done? >> and just this afternoon at a press conference in uvalde governor greg abbot was confronted by his democratic opponent, a visibly frustrated beto o'rourke. watch that. >> sit down! >> right now and you are doing nothing. >> no. he needs to get his [ bleep ].

>> this is totable predictable. >> sir, you're out of line! sir, you're out of line! sir, you're out of line! please leave this auditorium! [ inaudible ] >> i can't believe you sick son of a [ bleep ] would come to a place like this to make a political issue! >> let him talk! >> it is on you. >> it's on [ bleep ]. why you don't you get out of here! [ inaudible ] >> if that's how they treat beto o'rourke who was a member of congress now running for governor, you wonder what's going on down there. senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake is live in uvalde, texas. dave is here and writing about mass murder in this country for two decades and he's the author of the new york times

best-selling birth of a movement and new york times volume nift and msnbc political analyst. host and executive producer of showtime's "the circus" and nbc national affairs analyst. take your time. take me through the response and what most people care about most and how the families are doing. >> nicole, there's more heartbreak in this town than the city of 15,000 people ought to be able to handle. we got here last night, and i spent a couple of hours at the notification center which started as a place of joy for some families and relief. it was where families could be reunited with their kids as they were taken out of the school. as hours went by, it became one of the most miserable places i've had to stand and conduct journalism and watch families who were getting dna notifications because that's what it took to identify their children and find out that their

kids weren't the lucky ones who got out of that school safely or who got sent to an area hospital. they were the ones who weren't going to be coming home at all. today i spent most of the day in neighborhoods like this one. i'm a few blocks from the shooter's home talking to folks in the community and in a city this size, everyone you talked to has some connection to what happened here yesterday. i've talked to the cousins and aunts and uncles of people who were shot. i've talked to people who had teachers in that school. i talked to a woman who told me her grandson was taken out of a window in that school. they were taking kids out of windows in other parts of the same hallways where the shooter was. >> it's still rippling through it, but the grief is everywhere. nobody escapes this even on the same block where the shooter lives and you mentioned the press conference and the layout

from abbott and o'rourke what so many parents have wanting to say, shouting it at their tvs wondering when it will stop. i've heard the same thing from teary-eyed parents that i've been interviewing on these streets here. it's a city overcome at the moment, trying to figure out what's next, and i think that's still the open question for state and federal leaders to decide. what's going to be next here, if anything, is going to be different? >> garrett haake, you're on the ground and you're living the experiences of these families whose lives changed forever. yesterday afternoon, but you're also familiar, and i know with a building anywhere on a federal level would happen. do you sense anywhere on the ground that there's hope that this being in the spotlight and

the innocence of a second grader and third grader. and the tragedy. i've read all of the stories and the cries coming out of the center there, and i just wonder if there's any sense from the people you talk to that something might change. >> i don't want to give anyone false hope. i have covered mass shootings for years, and it take apparently more than what we saw at sandy hook or santa fe or buffalo or any of the other cities that we can talk about to change the politics around this issue. if there is hope, i think it's on a very narrow slice of potential legislation, and it's because of what's worked in some states and that's red flag laws. these extreme risk protection orders. if congress is going to acts and if the federal government will do something and if there are ten republicans that pass something in the senate, i think what you can potentially see

that rick scott signed into law in florida or mike braun supports in indiana. there are templates for something, not the big background check bills and an assault weapons ban and not something that democrats want, and there are state-level templates that do exist that could be passed at state levels and even in places like texas or could be passed at the federal level and the house will take the bills up when they come back in june and again, this will fall into the lap of chris murphy and a handful of other negotiators and jon cornyn, and the senior senator and is probably the pivotal republican on this issue, i think that's where the energy will be focused in the coming weeks and whether something can be sustained across the finish line remains an incredibly heavy lift. >> which is the second tragedy on all unto itself. garrett haake, grateful for

having you spend time with us. >> i want to pick up on what garrett said about red flag laws. the gunman was a high school drop out with no known history of mental health problems. red flag laws are part of the solution and i don't know anybody that opposes them, but they are not by themselves the answer. where are your thoughts today? where is your head on the conversation? >> the red-flag laws are a no-brainer and they're a small piece. you know, i'm working on a piece right now. i'm just sort of as toundzed that in the history of political -- american political movements, gun control is probably the biggest failure. it started in the '60s, and i just looked at the stats. two-thirds of american wanted to outlaw the handguns. people want to google that because that's impossible and

inconceivable. most americans wanted to get rid of any kind of handgun. that's when we started and the gun control people have lost so badly all of the way in the other direction. not only did they fail everything it's completely obliterated. the dumbest thing they ever did was the very first move naming it gun control. you know, who the hell wants to be controlled? >> yeah. >> and what is that saying to people on the other side? we've been butting heads and those are fighting words and they've been fighting and losing ever since. >> sort of a new crop, namely post newtown, gabby giffords and watts, are the two main people, rebranding it and reconceiving of it as gun safety. one of the problems here, i hate to always blame the media a lot. why is the media still calling it gun control when you have not heard that word "control" out of

any of the parkland kids. how come i'm a gay guy and i can't even keep up with lgbt, and i don't know what the letters are and the media are changing the names and the media is great with that. oh, it's gun safety now and why are we not thinking about that way and trying to rebuild the trust that took 50 years of mistrust, of scaring the [ expletive ] of gun owners and i don't want to take the blame here on our side, we have to rebuild that trust and we have to start pretty damn fast because they don't trust us. most gun owners want sensible safety in the middle, but they don't trust us. they won't do it, because they think if they meet us in the middle we'll push them to the other side. that's why people don't want to pass these laws they believe in because they don't want to give an inch and get pushed around.

>> i mean, i like that you went deep right away. i do want to -- i do want to bring charles and john howman into this conversation. it's probably the most important been we can have about what the debate sounds like and how you get to 85% of all americans who support background checks. universal background checks have broad swaths of support and yet for some reason this extremist minority that is opposed to it prevails and the policy debate and i'll call on you to help me understand that over the course of the hour. we are waiting for president joe biden who is going to sign into law an executive order on the anniversary of george floyd's murder. as soon as that event starts, this is my way of apologizing to you in advance, john howman as soon as president biden speaks because he is expected to talk about the tragedy in texas, as well. >> anything he has to say is more important than what i have to say.

>> i want to do things, i want to play this wonderful -- to dave's point, i want to replay this after the mass shootings talking about what they want to do. you diagnosed it quickly yesterday in the moment as the nra needing to be dismantled at the ballot box with weakening political power. it's actually happening to donald trump in georgia if the lessons there would apply, after the horror of these families haven't begun to grief the loss of their very, very, very young children third and fourth graders were the age group of the 19 children who died and we see tempers flaring in texas with beto o'rourke con fronting the leadership. >> i had barely walked out of the studio before ted cruz was publicly talking about how, you know, democrats are politicizing this issue and they're trying to take away the constitutional rights of voters and that we're not going to give an inch.

i'm not going to have a discussion and not going to have a discussion about how we can end this scourge. we saw today governor abbott do the same thing he always does, let's get more guns in texas. he said the thing he always says. these are demented people. nothing we can do will change it. people get shot in chicago, the gun violence is there even in cities that have lots of gun control. i'm as -- i'm exactly where i was yesterday about what has to happen. if this is ever going to change which is these people have to be defeeted, and i think to unpack the thing that we talked about yesterday a little bit more, you have with these republicans in the senate and the united states senate and republicans all over the country. there is with nra and the gun rights people across the board. gun manufacturers and ammunition companies, and all of the people who live on the far idea ideology on this issue and they're not just talking about

the right to bear arms and they're speaking in insurrectionist terms about the necessity and that's why greg abbott says we needmore guns because there will be a liberal coming down and we have to be armed for that. there are two pieces to it. there is the cares on the and the stick piece. the carrot piece is the money, the campaign contributions, the donations that all these people get and the stick piece is the piece that rests on, hey, if you deviate from our points of view and this is the nra and the gun lobby talking, we will have you primaried and you will lose. that also points at a thing that is in the stick. it's a threat, but it rests on something important which is that gun rights voters are single-issue voters. there is an animated group of americans who will vote on this issue only and in order to win, to beat these groups and the whole consolation i just laid out is people who are appalled by this what we're seeing in america need to be like that.

they need to care about this issue above all. they need to vote on it and say god, i'm upset, and i wish things would change and this issue, i put it at the top of the list they care about for the people who fight on this at the grassroots level on the right. it's the only issue that will get them to turn out all of the time. that's yet nra is powerful and they have intensity of their followers. people who want to change america in this way are going to start acting like that, by what i mean is it's not just a vileance issue and it's not just a high value issue. this matters enough to me to make me turn out, to get my friends to turn out and organize and go out and act like this matters and act like it's an existential crisis and if you can do that, because there are way more of you than there are them, you should beat these people and that's the only way it's going to change.

you have to get the votes. >> charles, there's so much on eye didn't see ted cruz's comments, but they don't surprise me. the problem isn't ted cruz coming out or these texas officials accusing beto of being political. they started a political calculation. so the attacks are projected on to democrats who want to stop the next shooting. that's what beto o'rourke said what he was doing there today and the right cloaks itself in the most political conduct of all which is to say i'm going to align myself with this coalition that john ably describes, but i think what the looking in the mirror part of this is we didn't finish burying the victims in buffalo from the last slaughter from the mass shooter who was also a young male before we had to swerve our cameras to uvalde, texas. you either think it's okay, and you don't want to change in your

considerations and your single-issue voting patterns and we should talk about that, if that's the case or you don't, but if you don't, to this points about waging a culture war from the left on the extremist views of the republicans who protect the right to carry weapons of war. what is the argument against a background check? every legal gun owner subjects himself to a background check. there is an effort that should be made, don't you think, to make clear that it's the right on the main stream on the questions of guns. >> i want to make one point which is that i do not personally believe that the republican party is being held hostage in any way by the nra, but rather that they're in cahoots together with the nra and they're all singing from the same hymnal. the republican party is to blame for not allowing america to take any action on gun safety, gun control, whatever you want to

call it, and that is because they have been preaching a menace to the american people for decades. that there is a menace coming from criminals, and even when crime was down, there is a menace coming from immigrants coming across the border. there is a menace coming in the possibility of some sort of race war or race replacement. there could even be a menace coming from the government itself, and if you believe the propaganda which a lot of people do, it is only prudent and logical that you would get your own insurance policy which is to be armed yourself. it's like people in the flood zone getting flood insurance. if you believe the logic that mens is around every corner and in fact, at your door and that's what the republican parties has been preaching to america and they've been preaching gun proliferation at the same time

that they've been lowering the barriers to owning guns and changing the requirements and how you can hold them and how you can get them. >> they have been lowering those barriers and increasing the rhetoric of everyoned in arm. that is part of the reason why in 2020 we saw the highest number of gun deaths in american history, over 45,000 americans died of gun deaths and 54% of them were suicide and something like 43% were murders and what republicans do want, there is another murder is that they use the redundancy and the reputation of these massacres against change itself because they know that america has gotten used to inaction. we get sad and we get upset and we say, if not now, when?

if not this then what? and yet we see, we can't even have a space to mourn before we have to go to the next tragedy. >> charles, we're going to pick this up on the other side of president joe biden's remarks. let's go to those. >> please. [ cheers and applause ] >> thank you all. vice president, harris, before we begin, let me say a few words about what happened in uvalde, texas, in the elementary school. since i spoke last night the confirmed death toll has tragically climbed including another teacher and two more, three more students. jill and i will be traveling to texas in the coming days to meet with the families, and let them know that we have a sense of their pain and hopefully bring some little comfort to the

community in shock and grief and in trauma. as a nation, i think we all must be there for them, everyone, and we must ask when in god's name will we do what needs to be done if not completely stop, fundamentally change the amount of the carnage that goes on in this country? to state the obvious, corey and a lot of other people here, i'm sick and tired. i'm just sick and tired of what's going on and continues to go on. i've spent my career as chairman of the judiciary committee and as vice president working for common sense gun reforms. as i said in the senator and vice president, while they clearly will not prevent every tragedy, we know certain ones will have significant impact and will have no negative impact on the second amendment.

the second amendment is not absolute. when it was passed, you couldn't own a canon. you couldn't own certain kinds of weapons. it's just always been limitations, but guess what? these actions we've taken before they save lives and they can do it again. the idea that an 18-year-old can walk into a store and buy weapons of war designed and marketed to kill is wrong. it violates common sense and even the manufacturer, the inventor of that weapon thought that, as well. you know, where is the backbone? where is the courage to stand up to a very powerful lobby? here's one modest step. the federal agency that measures

and ensures that gun laws are enforced and the second amendment is abided by, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms, the aft has not had a senate confirmation leader for seven years because of these disputes. for seven years without anyone in charge. i nominated a broad prosecutor with broad bipartisan support from law enforcement and the community overall. his hearing was held today, earlier today, i should say. the senate should confirm and without delay, without excuse send the nomination to my desk. it's time for action. we're here today for the same purpose to say enough, to act. we must. vice president harris and members of the cabinet and

members of the congress, civil rights leaders, law enforcement officers and officials, distinguished guests and especially the families are missing a piece of their soul including the family sitting in front of me including a beautiful young girl who said my daddy's going to change history, and he will, honey. he will. they lost a piece of their soul two years ago, as well. you know, i know events remembering your loved ones even though they're met with reverence are really hard and it's like it was yesterday, but in your own ways each of you whose families have been victimized have found courage through the purpose of your pain. it's justice that's been too long dormant and to give hope

while in need of hope yourself. that's why the executive order i'll be signing today is so important in my view. it's what we can do together to heal the very soul of this nation, to address profound fear, trauma, exhaustion that particularly, black americans have experienced for generations and a channel that private plane and public outrage into a rare mark of progress for years to come. two summers ago, in the middle of the pandemic, we saw a protester cross the nation, the likes of which we haven't seen since the 1960s. athletes and sports leagues and boy cotted postponed games and black lives matter. students staged walkouts from urine and the mist and

australia, people saw their own fight for justice and equality and what we were trying to do. the message is clear. enough! just enough! look, almost -- almost a year later. [ applause ] >> almost a year later a jury in minnesota stepped up and they found police officer guilty of murdering george floyd with the police officer and the police chief taking the stand to testify against the misconduct of their colleagues. i don't know any good cop that likes a bad cop, but for many people including many families here search accountability is all too rare. that's why i promised as president i would do everything in my poor to enact meaningful police reform that is real and lasting. that's why i called on congress to pass the george floyd justice

and policing act. [ applause ] >> it is on my desk. >> some ask why i haven't done this executive order earlier, if i'd done it it would undercut the effort to get the law passed. this is a call to action based on a basic truth. public trust as any cop will tell you violates public safety and it doesn't contribute. it doesn't cooperate. two sides of the same coin is inextricably linked and the principles of fairness and equal justice are at the core of each of them. for the wheels of justice are propelled by the confidence that people have in their system of justice. without that confidence crimes would go unreported. witnesses have a fear to come forward. cases go unsolved.

victims surfer in isolation while perpetrators remain free and ironically, police are put in greater danger. justice goes undelivered. without public trust law enforcement cannot do their job to serve and protect our communities. as we've seen all too often, public trust is frayed and broken. that undermines public safety. the families here today and across the country have had to ask, why this nation? why so many black americans wake up knowing they could lose their life in the course of just living their life today? simply jogging, shopping, sleeping at home. whether they made headlines or not, lost souls gone too soon. members of congress including many here today like senator cory booker and congresswoman karen bass alongside members of the congressional black caucus, house and senate judiciary

committees spent countless hours on the george floyd justice and policing act to find a better answer to that question. i sincerely thank you all for your tireless effort, but they're not over. [ applause ] >> the house passed a strong bill and it failed in the senate and our republican colleagues opposed any meaningful reform. so we got to work on this executive order and it was in key elements of the justice and policing act and reflects inputs with the broad coalition that was represented here today. families, courageously shared their perspectives on what happened to their loved ones and what we could do to make sure it didn't happen to anyone else. >> leaders of every generation who had given their heart and

soul on this work have given insights and perspectives and the executive order values law enforcement and put their lives on the line every single day to serve. now let me say there are those who seek to drive a wedge between law enforcement and those they serve. those in public safety are in opposition to one another. we know that's not true, but it occurs. i believe the vast majority of american want the same thing, trust and accountability. the vast majority of law enforcement risk their lives every day to do the right thing. their families wait for that phone call every time they put on that shield. just yesterday in uvalde, brave local officers of the border patrol intervened to save as many children as they could. here today i want to especially thank the international association of the chiefs of

police, the fraternal order of police and the organization of black law enforcement executives and federal law enforcement association. [ applause ] major chiefs association and others. you stepped up. you stepped up and endorsed what we're talking about today. as divided as a nation can feel, today we're showing the strength of our unity. it matters. this executive order is the most significant police reform in decades. it applies directly under law to only 100,000 federal law enforcement officers and all of the federal law enforcement officers, and though federal incentives and best practices they're attached to, we expect the order to have significant impact on state and local law enforcement agencies, as well. here are the key parts. first, the executive order promotes accountability. it creates a new national law

enforcement on the accountability database to track records of misconduct so that an officer can't hide the misconduct. >> it is a pattern and practice investigation to address systematic misconduct in some departments. it mandates all federal agents where it activates body cameras while on patrol. >> second, the executive order raises standards, bans choke holds and restricts no-knock warrants and to emphasize de-escalation and interviewing to stop another officer, justice didn't occur and people testified and it didn't occur in george floyd's case. and third, the executive order modernizes policing. it calls for a fresh approach to recruit, train, promote and retrain law enforcement that tied to advancing public safety and public trust.

right now we don't systematically collect data, for instance, on instances of police use of force. this executive force will improve data collection. it includes reforms that have long been talked about and were finally implemented on a federal level and it comes at a critical time, by building trust, we can strengthen public safety and we can fight crime in our communities, and we will do one more things and we can make sure it's possible when we work together. look, i know -- i know progress can be slow and frustrating, and there's a concern that the reckoning on race inspired two years ago is beginning to fade, but acting today, we're showing that our dear friend, the late john lewis, congressman, wrote in his final records after his final march for justice in july

of 2020, he said democracy is not a state. it is an act. democracy is not a state. it's an act. an affirmative act. today we're acting. we're showing that speaking out matters, being engaged matters and that the work of our time, healing the soul of this nation is ongoing and requires all of us never to give up, also to keep the faith. i close with this, over two years now -- for over two years we've gotten to know one another and pray with one another and not figuratively, literally. i promised the floyd family, among others, george's name is not going to be a hash tag. your daddy's name is going to be known for a long time, that as a nation, we'll ensure his legacy

and the legacy of so many others remembered today, it's not about their death, but what we do in their memory that matters. the purpose. in just a few moments i'm going to deliver on that promise when i sign the executive order and kamala and i will continue along with our friends in congress to get meaningful police reform legislation on my desk as best we can, as quickly as we can beyond what we're doing here, affecting states directly. >> on this day, we're showing the america we know we're a great nation because the vast majority of us are good people and there's nothing beyond our capacity. nothing. we act together as the united states of america. this is a start, a new start. may god bless you all, may god

protect our forces and i'm going to go sign that executive order. thank you. [ applause ]

>> about to sign the advancement of criminal justice practices for public trust and public safety, and since i only have one pen you're all going to get a copy of it. i don't have to do one stroke at a time with each pen. [ laughter ] [ laughter ] [ applause ] president joe biden signing an executive order that will promote accountability and raise standards, interesting there, charles acknowledges that he didn't do this sooner and getting to the question in a lot of people's mind today because he was letting the legislative process play out and we all know

that fell apart and today on the two-year anniversary of george floyd, president joe biden in his words delivering on one of his campaign promises. >> to a degree. the president and i agree an activist and everyone who was looking for some sort of reform would will have preferred if he were to sign an actual piece of legislation. republicans blocked that and let's never forget that that happened. it was not the by then administration and republicans refuse to go along and they kept nibbling away at that legislation until democrats said you really don't want anything and therefore they threw up their hands and then the biden administration said we'll get an executive order and it leaked and law enforcement got a look at it and law enforcement freaked out because in part it had in it language about systemic racism. law enforcement that we will with detract our endorsement if you don't change it. so it got watered down again.

>> listen. they cannot do what legislation can do. i also believe that any change is better than no change, but most of what is in this exec tifr order applies to federal law enforcement agencies. there are only 100,000 federal law enforcement agent and there are 700,000 actual police in this country. two-thirds of federal law enforcement agents, i wrote this down, people like customs and border protection, fbi, federal bureau of prisons and these are not the people in the neighborhoods and these are not the people shooting people, right? and so, it is good that we have something that's better than nothing, but this is very close to nothing. >> charles, you know, the importance in the beginning that this was something that the republicans walked away from. they walked away after -- wroen

i don't know what the verb is here, wasting a lot of time and there seem to be -- a lot of democrats and republicans seem to believe that the legislative efforts were genuine, and it is my understanding that there were red lines that the republican negotiators had the whole time. what is your sense of optimism that anything more than -- and you're right. i've been through the whole thing and it does deal with federal law enforcement agencies that are not, as you said, the ones that have become notorious, i think is a better word, than famous in reesence years. what is your sense of whether a legislative push can be reanimated and brought back to life or is this as far as we get for now. >> republicans are using the same tactic on police reform that they used on gun control. we were talking about the last segment. if you wait long enough the passion around the issue will

begin because other things and other tragedies will take their place and so republicans basically waited out the momentum of the summer of protest and they kept saying yes, we'll negotiate and they real le had no intention of moving and then as crime rates began to rise in certain cities around the country, they started to say now there's less pressure this issue and they will begin to fall away, well, there's less pressure on this issue and it got to a point where they believe and they were probably right about this, unfortunately, which is that there is little to be lost or if i had little and it cost little then they would simply walk away. >> it's an important with the tie we started the hour around

gun safety. the a good note from you that i never should. president biden announcing in the beginning of this event that he's sick and tired. what are we going to do to stop the carnage? updating the death count since his comments last night. the president using common sense gun reform as his stated goal in announcing that he and first lady dr. jill biden will travel to meet with the parents who are grieving these unimaginable, unbelievable horrors of having to as frank guttenberg explained finding caskets small enough for their small and young children. >> yeah. you know, that reminds me and not to be a pollyanna, believe me, this is a drop in the bucket. you know, i've been talking to gabby giffords and for quite a long time their number one priority is something called

violence intervention programs and the hospitals to play gun violence and it's kind of the most important thing. they snuck in their 200 million in finding that was signed into law in april. the nra stopped protesting it possibly, it never weakened the bottle and it's saved lives and 90% of the guns in america happen to people of color in inner cities and have nothing to do with the shootings we're focused on. it's a non-fwlam rouse thing. when i did my profile on gabby giffords my editor almost made me take it out, because it was hard to explain and no one had heard of it and it's the most important thing and i wrote to gabby's people and said am i wrong? no. that's the most important thing, just explain it better.

so there are things that are -- there are positive things here and there if you look for them. it's nothing. it is so shorts of of what we need to do. the fat thing and over team it can save massive amounts of lines. >> the thing that can save,y think was more of greg abbott's ruling class of texas at this press conference. here he is just outside that confrontation. >> texas governor greg abbott who says now is not the time to make this political. >> now is the time to stop the next shooting. right after santa fe was the time to stop the next shooting. right after odesa, and in each

case we say this isn't the time. now is the time. literally, right now. that's why i'm here. that's what we want as a state. that's what i want as a parent. i've got three kids who are in high school and middle school and elementary school. that's what they want, and i face their judgment and my conscience and ultimately my maker for what i do when i have the chance to change this and i'm going to do everything in my power to change this. i am not alone. the majority of texas is with us on this right now. the majority of texas is not reflected by that governor or those people around the table who talk about mentsal healthcare or say that this is pure evil and it will continue to happen until we change course. we've got to change course. >> drop-off in america is a ritual. most places have school busses and lots of places don't and so

drop-off is a ritual and what he said there was a universal experience today, it's why i'm here. it's what we want. it's what i want as a parents. i have three kids who are in high school, middle school and elementary school. that's what they want and i face their judgment and my conscience and ultimately my maker when i have a chance to change this and i will do everything in my power to change this. >> it's news today because he was the only one that we found displaying that urgency and a kind of passion around something that happened all over america today. moms and dad his to get up after the second deadliest school shooting and we now know it isn't. >> we're coming up on the -- on the tenth anniversary, right? of sandy hook which i think is the deadliest. >> december. look, beto o'rourke in that moment speaks to millions of people.

what i thought was a perfunctory way. i wasn't apologizing for it and people were, like, don't apologize all over social media and don't apologize because people innately understand that people innately understand this is a political issue. the guns in america are what politicians make decisions about or don't make decisions about and therefore make decisions about, right? public policy is an inherently political thing, and the fact we leave kids vulnerable to this kind of slaughter is a political decision. not making decisions is political. making certain decisions is political. standing up and saying, we don't want to politicize this, how dare the democrats do this, that is a political statement. they're all political statements. and when they hear beto o'rourke, and i'm not saying beto o'rourke will now be

elected by a landslide, but i think a lot of parents say, now. now is now. to say this is not the time has become a very tired piece of information. i think what whatever your view about handling this, there are a lot of people across the spectrum who will at least identify with the urgency of someone like that who stands up and says, this notion that now is not the time is pure b.s. it is the time. and beto understands that. he's right. >> if beto tapped into that passion, the only person who did it sooner and more passionately was this man, steve kerr. >> when are we going to do

something? i'm tired, i'm so tired of getting up here and offering condolences to the devastated families that are out there. sorry, i'm tired of the moments of silence. enough! 50 senators in washington are going to hold us hostage. do you realize that 90% of americans, regardless of political party, want universal background checks, 90% of us. we are being held hostage by 50 senators in washington who refuse to even put it to a vote despite what the american people want. they won't vote on it because they want to hold onto their own power. it's put forth. >> congressman carson swallow of california. you are for gun safety in

america. my question is why don't democrats declare a culture war on republicans on guns. i think it's about 50% of americans who support legislation? why not go on the offense on these cultural issues? 65% of americans support roe, 93% support exceptions for the life of the mother. why not go on offense with culture issues when you have the public on your side, not theirs? >> look at republicans, they go on offense on wildly unpopular issues like a woman's right to choose. instead we are always, always apologizing about, well, we're not trying to infringe on the second amendment, we're not saying gun control. why don't we just have guns disciplined in this country? the crazy idea that the most dangerous weapons should end up in the hands of the most dangerous people.

and right now as a parent of three young children, and one of them is just starting to ask questions about these shootings, i find myself in a position where i'm lying to my kids. every parent in america right now is lying to their kids. if you're telling your kid they're going to safe at their school and everything is going to be okay, it's a lie. who wants to lie to their kids? but right now the truth is, not by a policy defect, but by design, by design of the republican party in this country, every kid in every classroom is exposed and vulnerable to a shooting. and no police officer outside the classroom, as we have seen, is going to protect them. no idea that, you know, more good guys with guns in the community is going to protect them, and no sense of let's just throw money at mental health is going to protect them. what's going to protect them is to not allow dangerous people to have access to firearms. what's going to protect them is not to allow assault rifles in our community. what's going to protect them is

to have violent history checks on every firearm purchase. this is by design this happens. it's not a defect at all. >> congressman, the republican messaging operation kicks in and throws out things like armed guards outside schools. robb elementary had one. they throw out the kinds of things that haven't worked, that didn't work yesterday, that didn't save 19 third and fourth graders from losing their lives on the second to last day of the school year. how do you, as democrats, with 85% to 90% of the public behind your positions not prevail, not just in the political arguments, but in the legislative process? >> we stop listening to polls about what we think voters want to hear and we tell them what is going to protect them. and that's what frustrates me so much about democrats, is that we're constantly responding to polls rather than setting an agenda, a freedom agenda, that

you should be free to make your own health care decisions as a woman, that your kid should be free in the classroom, that you should be free to vote without the fear of violence. we should be telling voters what they deserve rather than responding and chasing whatever issue of the day is. that actually happens to work. but if your viewers are ready to give up - i've seen so many text messages on social media, it's time to walk away, i'm not even going to vote. we have come so far since sandy hook and parkland. we have a gun safety majority in the house of representatives. everything we need to protect americans we passed in the house. we're now a few senators short. so the response shouldn't be, i'm not going to show up, i'm not going to engage in november. the response should be we're on the goal line. let's make a push to get a gun safety majority in the united

states senate. elect demmings in florida. that's a start. we need everyone to protect our kids. >> congressman eric swalwell and all, thank you for being with us this hour. as the congressman said, if you accept that, we're on the goal line. we'll talk about that. stay with us. n the goal line line we'll talk about that. wow, first time? check out this backpack i made for marco. oh yeah? well, check out this tux. oh, nice. that'll go perfect with these. stay with us dude... those are so fire. [whines] only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

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it's 5:00 in new york. the outcry today, the question, when will enough be enough? parents of the children who were gunned down at columbine, sandy hook and parkland are in disbelief that the massacres that claimed their children's lives weren't the last ones, that it wasn't enough to save the 19 children and two teachers that were murdered in one classroom yesterday. an assault rifle in one hand, a weapon of war. one said, i guess it's something in society we know will happen over and over. one who lost his child said, it's almost a replay of sandy hook. president biden became the 56th president in our country to take

to the country and offer condolences to those parents, a country where the vast majority of americans support some of the gun safety languishes. 81% support background checks, 63% of americans support a ban on assault weapons. 64% of americans support a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines. it is difficult to find another issue over which americans are more united than these commonsense gun safety measures that could, maybe, keep our children safer. today republican members of congress remain resolute, unwilling to do anything to confront the sprawling gun epidemic in the united states of america. we play some of their reactions today to the news that 19 children were murdered, two

adults in one classroom lay dead. we repeat the question of 24 hours ago, senator chris murphy on the senate floor. what are we doing? >> there are millions and millions of gun owners in america, and to be able to say this one 18-year-old is not going to wipe out gun ownership in america is not acceptable for the responsible gun owners out there. >> the issue is not the firearm, it's the person. how do we stop these people before they act? >> you see politicians try to politicize this. you see democrats and all the folks in the media whose immediate solution is to try to restrict the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens. that doesn't work. it's not effective. it doesn't prevent crime. >> what do you say to democrats like chris murphy who say tackling mental health isn't

enough when it comes down to guns? >> there are guns for everything out there. i had the same reaction every time there's anything that comes up, they want to blame guns. >> so we start our coverage today with our nbc colleague on the ground for us in uvalde, texas. your coverage has been extraordinary. you know you're very moved. i want to play one of your interviews with uvalde resident santos and talk about fate and the tiny decisions that were made. let's play this first. >> luckily my eight-year-old was sick yesterday, so she stayed home, but my five-year-old did go to school. and having to explain to him why he had to hide under his desk for half the day is very hard. he can't comprehend it. he just said that he was happy that him and his best friend

luis were safe. >> reporter: a special meeting yesterday with your kids. >> very. they slept with me last night. >> i slept with my son last night, too, after covering this story. tell me how the families are doing. >> reporter: nicolle, i am truly at a loss for words. i've been thinking a lot about this. how can we transmit what has happened here and what is happening here? joanna that we met, joanna santos, her sister is a teacher. this is the school behind me. her sister, joanna's sister, is a teacher here, special education teacher. and during this massacre that

occurred just 27 hours ago, she was texting her sister. she was texting joanna. she said, i'm here with my eight children and i'm in a closet. i will pray that we can survive but i don't know that we will. you know, nicolle, we're parents, right? you think of these 19 families that yesterday dropped off their children, third, fourth grade. tomorrow is the end of school. tomorrow. and those 19 families couldn't and will never be able to pick them up again. nicolle, i think about little javier, ten years old in fourth grade, who yesterday was given a special recognition in school in the morning, and to witness

that, that was the last time she would see him alive. and i think of the little girl who had this little recognition like this that she was given on that same event year, beaming with pride. then they say that she died when she called 911. a little fourth grader and the two teachers that lost their lives. nicolle, i think how is it that we can describe what is an infinite, permanent pain? this community of 17,000 is so tight-knit, nicolle. we're about 60 miles from san antonio, we're about 70 miles from the mexican border, and i thought wrong when i came here

that this was probably a place where people passed through on their way to a different life. but i was wrong. this is a community where people stay, and generations of people have formed roots here and others have laid seeds for their future, seeds that were germinated here. there is the brick wall that has the name of the school. now it's covered by flowers. people keep bringing flowers for the memory of these lives that were lost. on the bottom, benito in spanish. 90% of the students and staff in this school are latino. their dreams, their aspirations,

their hopes evaporated. 26 hours ago. and i think it's important that we talk about these people and about the infinite, deep difficulty and pain that they live through and will be living through for the rest of their lives. and, you know, it's easy to talk about these things, but it is so real, so visceral, so deep, so infinite. this is a community that comes together, but boy, what a hit. just -- what a hit. >> jose, how are they holding each other up, because that's

clear in your reporting as well. >> yes, there's faith. nicolle, there's faith. there is the belief that one has to continue -- i just spoke a little while ago, i spoke to an 18-year-old young man whose sister was here in that fourth grade classroom. she lost her life. i'm not giving her name because it hasn't been publicized yet. he was just saying, i don't know. he goes, i don't know how to even understand what happened. he's going to be an nba player, he told me. his sister was going to be a baseball player. how are they doing? i don't know other than i think that they are clinging on to

whatever they can to continue. step by step, breath by breath to cross the insurmountable. i know there is a lot of love here. there is a church i'm going to be going to later, and there is a lot of people that are meeting and counseling. nicolle, 17,000 people. every single person here knows someone affected by this. every single person in this community knows someone affected by this. i was talking to someone who said, that teacher taught me. one teacher had been here 17 years, the other one more than 23, and they're people who just were going about their daily

lives 48 hours before the school year would end, and what ended is the light, the future, the dreams, the hopes, the aspirations of innocent little boys and girls and two teachers that were with them in their final moments. >> jose, i know you were traveling there and you're doing your reporting on the ground, but senator chris murphy talked about the survivors of newtown, and we don't always think about them as well, but he talked about the kids who had to return to the classroom after seeing the horrors that they saw, and they were very young, too, and they had words for those kids. they had to say monkey if they were having images of the violence or the carnage. behind you i'm sure there are the most expert people in that community for dealing with the trauma of the kids who survived. can you tell us what is being

done to support the students, especially with school ending tomorrow, there? >> yeah, school was yesterday. the superintendent said, that's it. end of the year. we're not coming back. some of the people who i spoke with who have friends that are students here said that the students simply said we're not going back. there is the understanding and the solidarity that there is a lot of work that needs to be done for those that survive. and so it's going forward. i keep thinking -- i was there, kerry sanders and i were in parkland, i think of virginia beach. i just keep thinking of all the different times when just the unimaginable happens. and it's no longer a contradiction. unimaginable things start to happen more and more and more

and more, and it doesn't make them less horrific. on the contrary, i think that people here are going to need so much support and help for so long because of that insurmountable, infinite valley of pain that will always be with them. >> you said at the beginning that you wanted to transmit that, and you have done such justice to their pain and their stories, and i'm so grateful to you. jose, i'm so grateful for you. go ahead. >> it's such a weird thing to say, but it's such a privilege to be here, to be able to, in any way one can in one's extremely limited being, just be

here and talk about these boys and these girls and these teachers that -- again, i wish i were better at words, but there's just some things you can't define, you know? >> you're very good at the feelings words, so thank you very much. and if anything else comes to mind that you want to share, we'll be here for a little bit longer. thank you very much, my friend. >> thank you so much. >> ben rose, national security adviser for president obama, the author of the book "after the fall." also joining us, matt dowell, political strategist, and katty kaye is here, msnbc contributor.

i was looking at the statistics in the world. we are second. we're the only democracy that murders each worry guns at the clip we do. what does the world think on a day like today? >> every time one of these happen, and you know you've covered far too many of them, nicolle, i kind of reach back to those numbers. they stung me every single time. i was looking up some news statistics that compare america to the rest of the world just after the shooting. so between 2009 and 2018, the united states had 288 school shootings. the next highest number was in mexico. that was eight. eight versus 288 in the same time period. and whenever this happens, we hear all of the arguments about mental health. i have seen no evidence that there is more mental health problems in any of the other countries in the world than there are here in the united states, and more here in the

united states than other countries. they're kind of comparable, right? people are people and they have mental stresses everywhere, it's just how did you get from 208 to 8? how did you account for that disparity. you can't account for it in mental health because the disparity isn't there. so you have to compare it from someone else. it's just the sheer number of guns in this society and getting and having and using guns. that's the only way you can account for the difference. >> don, i want to show you what governor abbott said about guns in texas. >> the ability of an 18-year-old to buy a longgun has been in place in the state of texas for more than 60 years. and think about during the time

over the course of that 60 years, we have not had episodes like this. one thing that has substantially changed is the status of mental health in our communities. what i do know is this, and that is, we as a state, we as a society need to do a better job with mental health anybody who shoots someone else has a mental challenge, period. we as a government need to find a way to target that mental challenge and do something about it. >> they said this shooter had no mental health statistics.

even abbott's solution wouldn't have contained the massacre of third and fourth graders and two of their teachers yesterday, matt. >> nicolle, thanks for having me on. i've moved from heartbreak to so much anger. i have to say watching that press conference today, which was a complete political event with every elected official in texas sitting on a stage in an auditorium doing what they do, which they seem to be more angry at somebody who might speak the truth than they actually were at what happened in the course of that. here's my issue with what greg abbott said. it's threefold first, assault rifles haven't been available for 60 years. the ability of people to buy is a function of what happened

recently. about the first modern day mass shooting frlt. they shot students as they balked in the and the third thing is every time there's some other crime, bl it's the rising crime rate in houston rkts or rising in town here. it's only the mass shootings that occur and primarily it's on children. i'm going to add something to what katty just said.

obviously the big difference is the availability of guns, but coupled with that, nowhere else in the world is there a group of people and a political party that is so protective of the ability of anybody to own a gun at any time anywhere else in the world. almost every single gun reform passed around the world, including in new england, was done by conservative governments because they reacted to the problem. so it's not just the availability of guns, it's the politicization that's happened in one political party. it's past frustrating to watch greg abbott do that, and exude nothing, no immediacy to fix this problem that we seem to be discussing every single week. >> so, ben, i think it's important for everybody to understand, and i understand

what he did before this massacre. he turned 18 on may 16. the next day he bought the first of two ar-15 style rifles. on the 18, the next day, he bought the ammunition. and on the 19th, he bought another rifle. one was a smith & wesson. we estimate the total cost was $3,500. why can't the democrats say, here's what the republicans are for. an 18-year-old buys two assault

rifles within two days after he turns 18, maybe we should look at everybody who does that. do you want to have a political campaign on whether or not that's a good or bad idea? bring it on. >> i absolutely think we should, nicolle, because these are choices that we're making that are getting our kids killed. i mean, the decision to allow an 18-year-old to just buy those things, that's the result of political choices. >> two of them. >> two. we're talking about the background check bill, that's not enough. obviously there should be a background check. why can't you buy that weapon? why can't you buy that ammunition? the thing that really enrages me, nicolle, i worked in national security for eight years. i sat in the situation room working to uncover, detect, stop

that -- a terrorist bomb, but if a terrorist bomb killed a fraction of the kids that were killed yesterday, that would have blown the lid off american politics from the right. okay? we've spent trillions of dollars and gone to war, and war countries most americans are aware of. because literally a fraction of the people who were killed in that school that day were killed by a terrorist attack, what would ted cruz be saying if that was a terrorist? what would lindsey graham be saying if that was a terrorist? tragic attack in benghazi killed four americans, and we had years of republican toengs that and hearings. we had to revise our entire enemy security plan around the world. this is ghastly, nicolle. they're not protecting our kids. if you want to talk about national security, if you want

to talk about culture wars, this is an issue in which any american parent, including me, who had to drop off their kid at school today, knows that the tuesday use government is not only not solving that problem, but the is gaslighting us about it. the clips you played earlier, republican politicians, we all worked in these campaigns, nicolle. you know what they're doing. they're getting through the news cycle. they don't believe what they're saying. they're mouthing words about mental health so they can make it until everybody moves on to something else. until there is another attack that kills more children. and this is a country that has chosen to spend trillions of dollars fighting a war against terrorism and won't do the absolute minimum to stop our kids from getting killed by weapons of war in this country. absolutely by a matter of national security, by a matter of culture in this country, by just a matter of decency and

politics, this absolutely should be a priority that is not just lifted up after a mass shooting like this, but is a sustained focus by the democratic party going forward. we tried to do that in sandy hook. the democrats would pass things in congress. the presidents would do this. the presidents would do more with executive order. if you didn't have a the -- you need to have this in front of voters for the time it takes. sorry. >> don't be sorry. i've got more for you. it's not a right/left thing. every day parents are dropping their children off at the one place they shouldn't have to worry about that. it's part of the pandemic baggage, right, that school was closed and there was nowhere we trusted our kids. why, ben, isn't this something

that changes everything today? why isn't all the b.s. that everyone is talking about ripped up? and to think that the only people that are grieving and the people grieving the most, the people suffering the greatest losses are the 19 families. but i don't know anyone who isn't in pain today. why not take that pain and connect to one another and change something? is that pollyannish? do we not do that anymore? after 9/11, oh, well, planes and heinous suffering by human beings who made unimaginative choices, the same words are used to describe that terrorism of these students and two teachers. we changed everything, and we can debate what is good and what is bad, but nobody looked at each other on september 12 and said, let's do nothing, thoughts and prayers. why do we say we'll do nothing,

ben? >> because it works for the republican party. in has worked for them. whatever it is. democrats have assault rifles which, by the way, most americans would support. in order to try to find a middle ground that joe manchin and pat toomey fought in court. background checks. not taking a single gun away from a single person. background checks are too hard. the reality is this toxic group

of right wing politics in this country where you use issues like guns to stir up the emotions of your base while pocketing the contributions not just from the nra. what about all these gun makers who have been making money hand over fist, because every time there's one of these shootings, they go around telling you they're going to take their guns away. this is working for them. and we have to confront that reality that this annihilist realism that we're seeing, they need to change things from the bottom up. it's going to take people running for office on this issue. it's going to take people mobilizing this issue and not just doing it on the public level but all across this country and lodge this that's getting our kid killed. when we come back, shannon

watts joins the conversation. she's the founder of the gun reform safety group, moms demand action. before we break this hour, this week, we're going to try to tell you a little more about the victims. first this is eva morales and irma garcia, heroes, two co-teachers at robb elementary school. both of them are said to have died trying to protect their students. eva taught fourth grade. she was a mother in her early 40s, and an avid hiker and an educator who took great pride in teaching students their latino heritage. irma garcia worked as a teacher for 21 years. she won a prize for excellence in teaching. she loved to barbecue, she loved music. we're thinking of her four children and her husband today as they confront what jose

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last night senator mitt romney, one of the 100 human beings in the position of being able to, should he choose to, pass legislation to help prevent more senseless deaths at the hands of gun-wielding shooters, again, if he wanted to, tweeted this, quote, i offer prayer and condolence, but i know it's inadequate.

and moms who demand answers quickly tweeted wrote. here are some answers for you. don't let teens buy guns. pass a federal background check requirement. pass a federal red flas law. close the charleston loophole. don't take everyone's money. we have shannon watts. giving mitt romney the benefit of the doubt, do you think the policy is so broken that they don't even know anymore what legislation is languishing? >> i hope not. they are lawmakers, this is their job. one would think that lawmakers are looking at data, they're acting with integrity, but they're doing what their constituents want them to do.

and yet time and time again, whether it's our lawmakers in the senate or in state houses like in texas, everything they seem to do seems to be based on anecdote and emotion. and it is leading to horrors like we saw in uvalde, in buffalo, and the daily gun violence that killed over 110 americans in this country. we have to demand more from our lawmakers. when you go into the voting booth, you have to make sure you know who these lawmakers are and who they stand for. i want to make clear, these are not acts of nature. these are manmade acts of cowardice and corruption, and they are leading to the slaughter of children inside an american elementary school. how can you see that happen and not act?

>> if you thought things could get worse, you would have thought no. do you feel they've gotten worse? >> well, clearly, lawmakers, at least in the senate, have not acted. we've all been waiting for this cathartic moment for years and years. but i want to be clear because i do hear some people expressing hopelessness or a desire to kind of skirt this issue and concentrate on something else. we are making progress in state houses, in city councils. every single day, an army bigger than the nra is having state lawmaker meetings, showing up over and over and over again, and doing the unglamorous roots

. if you're 50% of america that hasn't been impacted by gun violence. great. wonderful. it is coming to your community. nobody is going to get out of this unscathed. we all have a part to play in changing this dynamic. find a piece of the work that you are passionate about, cultural, legislative, editorial and go to work. if you want to get involved, text the word act to 65333. we will plug you in and help you get to work. >> shannon, one of the sick and most helpless things i saw was after a shooting often there is a surge in people who believe the b.s. they buy guns, they buy ammunition. is there also a surge in people who sign up who reach out to you at that number?

>> hundreds and hundreds of thousands. and if there is a silver lining to this horrific tragedy, it is that people will honor these victims with action, that they will act and that they will do their part. you know, you asked me about what i thought when i first started moms demand action. i never imagined that the gun extremism in this country would back part of the right wing policy platform, that guns would become an organizing principle and a recruiting tool and a fundraising tactic. that is exactly what we're seeing. it's why we're seeing governor abbott blame mental illness which is absurd and inaccurate for gun violence in this country. so we all have to hold our lawmakers accountable right now. the clock has started, right? they want to run out the clock. we decide when that clock stops. it has to keep running all the way through november.

>> shannon, one of the things that is really clearly a by-product of your work is that the public, in really staggering numbers, is behind all the reforms and safety measures that you champion. 80% support background checks. this jumped from 83% to 95% from 2015 to 2018. if you tried to adopt a dog during a pandemic, you had to take an incredible background check with a home visit. the notion that people want guns and weapons of war without a background check is bonkers. i wonder who the 5% are who oppose that. what do you make of the fact that you've done this work, a movement that can get 94% of the american public behind it and still can't see legislative action. the movement has done all that a

movement can do. what do you do if you move the public that far. when we look at the data, we know states have more gun deaths. i know that sounds intuitive, and it is, but it is also shown by the research to be the case. so when we pass stronger gun laws, we have now passed gun laws in 29 states and on and on and on, not to mention the fact we stopped the nra agenda 90% of the time for the last six years, we are saving lives. when we educate millions of families about secure gun storage, we are saving lives. if anyone who is involved with any kind of social movement stopped ten years in, not a lot would get done, right? it took 100 years for all women to have the right to vote. it took 100 years for civil

rights to happen. this is not a sprint, but it is a race we will win, if we all get involved, if we all use our voices and votes. >> shannon, what happens when the nra gets together with the most prominent republicans? what's your sense about it? >> it's interesting, senator cornyn suddenly realized he had other obligations that day. we saw this play out over 20 years ago after columbine. we had the tapes. whether they were going to back down or double down, they doubled down. i expected nothing less from them. shame on them for holding this event. they hold these events and no

guns are allowed. and the reason is they are afraid of being shot, just like our children, just like our family members, just like our communities. but they protect themselves. >> that's amazing, matt dowd. and to come to your state, we talked a lot about abbott feeling competitive about wanting his state to be the state with the most firearms circulating. how do you come at this the other way, the culture piece? how do you fix this in the culture? >> well, i would like to connect this to something that shannon said and something we've talked about, which is, to me, this is a direct function of a democracy that's unhealthy, that's completely unhealthy. every single thing we're seeing, including what happened in uvalde yesterday with the loss of 19 individuals and all the children, it is a function of a broken democracy. voting rights, all of that. because what we have here today

is all your stats are right. the vast majority of the country wants universal background checks, wants red flag laws, wants you to have to get training and a permit, all of this stuff, and it's not happening. . i don't know if 5% of the country, and even republicans when you poll them, support the red flag laws f. who succeeded in a general election in red states and other areas is why this keeps happening. until we change that dynamic, until voters, one, engage on this, but i actually follow the leaders of candidacies who don't run on this. i have said before on this show a number of times, and you and i have had this conversation, that

represent cans have launch aid cull -- culture, do you want people to have access to guns including a person who we have no idea what their mental status is? let's have that debate, but part of the problem is the democrats, every time there is a cull confrontation they have, they have a tendency to go off in other areas. let's talk about school loans, or let's talk about the economic thing of what we have to do here. i think it's reached a point in time that we have to fundamentally present to the american public what it is to be an american and who are you in your heart and soul? and i think the democrats have to present a vision of what that is and contrast it with the republicans. and that has to be raised up, because like i said, our democracy at the basis of it is

life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. what happened in uvalde is opposite all of that. so until candidaies raise this debate and say, come on, bring it on, we're going to have this debate and we're going to decide what it really means to be a compassionate, loving american in today's society. >> matt, stick around. shannon, thank you for being a part of this today. ben, stick around, too. first this is more important. this is annabell gaudalupe rodriguez. she was 10 years old. a beautiful smile, as you can see there. then there's uziyah garcia. his grandpa called him the sweetest little boy he had ever known. he was just eight years old. we'll be right back. l be right .

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congressman, i heard you say there is nothing we can do about

this. what is there to do to take wide, public support for things like background checks and do something? >> this is every parent's worst nightmare and this is something that will be so hurtful to so many people. my wife and i tucking our kids in last night got e-mails from our daycare saying they would have more security. it's mass trauma around the country. we have to have a response. i've been struck by some of the discussions around the fact that this killer was 18. he's able to go in and buy two ar-15s and hundreds of rounds of ammunition without anything illegal occurring. he can't buy a beer, but he can buy that much weaponry. obviously that should change. you know, i'm looking for anything we can find, anything that could be an ice breaker to

help us move forward on this. >> there is so much to unpack there. the trauma and the grief of the 19 families who lost their babies and two of their teachers is next level. in the words manufacture i colleague, it's infinite. you touched on everything else. there is the trauma that every parent felt at dropoff this morning. that doesn't know any partisan divide. talk more about that and about that moment with moms and dads at dropoff leaving the person we love most in the world at a building that we can't fathom being unsafe for them. >> my wife right now is going to pick up our two boys. we're sad when we pick up our kids and hear that they had a rough day or hear that they might have fallen and had to get a band-aid. i cannot, actually cannot

imagine, getting a call and hearing that this happened at one of their schools. and it could. and it's happened so many times here in texas and across the country to so many families. as you said, it's not a partisan issue. come on. this is not partisan. we're talking about saving the lives of our kids. almost everything in society is built around protecting our kids. we have school zones where you can't drive certain speeds. we set up so many things to try and protect our children, but in this case, because of politics, basically, we've decided that it's just going to be nothing we can do. i can't accept that. i know a lot of my colleagues can't accept that. what i'm going to try and do is work with some of my colleagues who i know on the republican side who were of good faith. i think they're good folks who love their families who i think are also heartbroken about what's happened and see if we

can find something to show some courage. i've seen some limited green shoots around that already, but we have to take it where we can. >> congressman, in some way it seems to be heartless talking about election strategies on a day like today. but it is election strategies that will probably, if ever, change things in this country. you know texas well, you represent your state. do you think kind of pushing on that theme of what could be done and is there a way to make this a voting issue, do you think more people could get elected in your state in different constituencies than yours who did support more gun controls in the country? how widespread do you think it would be? do you think how many more people could get elected on that

platform in your state? >> just as an example, when you talk about universal background checks, over 70% of texans support that. when the governor and the legislature moved to get rid of the requirement that you get licensed to carry a handgun, that was the minority of our state opposed so our state officials and politicians in this state are doing. it is hard to talk about right now. that has to turn to electoral consequences. that's what these folks are responsive to, ultimately. that's what we have to organize around. i hate to talk about it right now because i don't think it is just about the next election. we should be talking about these

19 children, the families that were shattered, what we can do on a legislative front to make sure it doesn't happen again. but we know unless there is a change and folks feel like there is an interest like politicians to do the right thing, but they probably won't. >> we have to leave it there. thank you all for being part of our coverage today. as we go to break, amerie jo garza was 10 years old. she liked to play with play-doh. she was a jokester. always smiling. she liked everybody. she tried to talk to everybody. it's been reported she tried to call 911 to save the people around her. the photo you're looking at here, she died just hours after it was taken. you can see on your tv it says "honor roll." this is xavier lopez.

he's another honor roll recipient. his mom told the "washington post" that her son loved sports, that he was creative, that he never shied away from the camera. a bright future. a sweet and beautiful soul. we'll be right back. t and beautl t and beautl we'll be wooooo!!!!! woohooooo!!!! w-o-o-o-o-o... yeah, feel the savings. priceline. every trip is a big deal.

bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription.

♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. that's why we build technology that helps everyone come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ i've lived in san francisco for 20 years. i'm raising my kids here. this city is now less safe for all of us. chesa boudin is failing to hold repeat offenders accountable. he prosecuted zero fentanyl drug dealing cases, even though nearly 500 people have died of overdoses. i'm voting yes on h to recall chesa boudin now. we can't wait one more day when people are dying on our streets.

thank you so much for letting us in your homes on days like this. we are so thankful. ari melber is next. >> the world continues as we have another day like this. 19 kids and two teachers murdered at a uvalde school in texas. all victims have been identified and removed from the crime scene, according to authorities. the gunman had at least 30 rounds of magazines purchased