of the school shooting in texas. we will be remembering those who lost their lives throughout the morning and the extremely emotional moment from a dad who learned about his daughter's fate while aiding other victims. plus, new details this morning raising questions about why it took police so long to stop the killer. we'll have an account from a witness who says police were gathered outside while the gunman was inside. and tempers flare at democratic candidate for texas governor, beto o'rourke, interrupts the news conference of the man he is trying to replace. with us at the table, nbc news investigations correspondent tom winter. the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr. thank you, all, for being with us. wow, the past 24 hours, heart wrenching. >> they really have been. we've all been hearing from our

friends. i know everybody has been hearing from loved ones. just shock. i got a note this morning from a friend in mississippi. his pastor wrote the congregation yesterday and said, "as i write these words, the sun is rising on may 25th, 2022. another day of mourning in america after another mass shooting at another elementary school. as we pray yet again for those whose lives have been torn us under by a troubled soul wielding a deadly weapon, it seems important and necessary to me to say as a christian pastor that we try to find reasonable ways to reduce gun violence, and that is not political. it is moral. the church needs to have a moral compass which can tell the difference between that which is politically partisan and that which is moral. otherwise, our fear of being political may, at times, make us

fall silent concerning matters which we should not be silent. as martin luther king jr. once widely said, the day we fall silent about the things that matter is the day our life begins to end." that's chuck poole, baptist preacher from mississippi. the preacher is right, of course. standing by and doing nothing after little children are slaughtered in classrooms with weapons of war that are designed to be the most effective means of reducing flesh to a bloody mush, that is not a political failing. that is a moral failing. we need to protect little children in schoolyards from assassination. we need to protect grandmothers shopping for their children and their family in grocery stores, from having a bullet tear through their brain. we have an urgent need to protect christians in their churches. jews in their synagogues.

muslims in their mosques. and to protect country music fans singing along to their favorite songs from being murdered in a bloody rampage by, again, weapons of war. saving the lives of these americans, that's not a political necessity. that is a moral necessity. and doing nothing to stop this carnage is a sin. let me say it again. doing nothing to stop this ongoing carnage is a sin. and telling others to shut their mouths while the slaughter continues, to not talk about it. you can't talk about it. do not talk about it. that would be political. well, that's evil. and that evil cannot be allowed to prevail in press conferences in texas and statehouses across

the south, and it cannot be allowed to fester any longer in the united states senate. the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. we've heard that our whole lives. well, it's time for senators to do something. pass universal background checks, take at least a small step. just the first step in a thousand-mile journey, to start, to begin stopping the slaughter of babies, and putting the protection of life over the twisted, fever dreams of a paranoid minority that is dominating our political process, dominating our schools, dominating our churches, dominating our grocery stores, dominating our lives.

it's time once again to make sure that our kids can walk into their classrooms to learn, and to be able to live to tell their parents about it. willie, i look at the press conference yesterday where they were shouting at beto o'rourke for asking a question about guns after they tried to avoid it. this isn't about beto. let me say, in the grand scheme of things, i really -- i'm not focused on who is going to win a political race this fall. we're all focused on saving kids, saving grandparents. but to say, "don't talk about it," and then to write that it was classless? are we really there? it was classless to bring up the fact that children, that babies were slaughtered by guns -- make no mistake of it -- guns that

were specifically designed to kill enemy combatants in war. guns that were more deadly than the guns we gave our soldiers and marines in vietnam. it's insane. >> never talked about it. >> beto o'rourke was called sick for making this a political issue. that's what was yelled from the stage down to him when he went up to confront governor abbott of texas at the news conference yesterday. as you said very well there, it's not a political issue. it's not a political issue to angel garza, who was a first responder we'll hear from in a moment, who rushed in to help kids. saw a bloody young girl who was screaming, crying, said, "they shot my friend. she's not moving." "who is your friend?" amerie, his daughter. that's how he learned his daughter was dead. we'll show you sound. the people on the stage and across the country have to answer to that father. not to us.

not to politicians. they have to answer to that father, why amerie, who we showed there, just named to the honor roll, just turned 10 years old, why she's dead. that's not a political issue. that's a dad who lost his daughter. that's a moral issue, as you said, joe. let's get caught up on what happened since we saw you yesterday last. this morning, still not clear why a teenager in uvalde, texas, attacked the elementary school, killing 19 children and 2 teachers. investigators working to find a motive. we do have a bit of a timeline about how this unfolded on tuesday and what led up to it. after crashing his grandmother's truck outside the school, gunman ran to the school armed with an ar-15 style rifle, then fired at a school resource officer who confronted him outside. the officer did not fire any shots at the suspect. when the young man got inside the school, the gunman walked into a double classroom, locked the door, and began shooting. all the victims were inside that

room. law enforcement, including a tactical team from the u.s. border patrol, swarmed the school but were not able to get into the classroom. they eventually did get access after getting a master key from the principal. the gunman was shot and killed by border patrol officers. the texas department of public safety estimates 40 minutes to an hour elapsed from when the suspect opened fire on the school security officer to when that tactical team finally did shoot and kill him. a dps spokesperson addressed the response time by law enforcement. >> obviously, this is a situation we failed in the sense we didn't prevent this mass attack. but i can tell you, those officers that arrived on the scene and put their lives in danger, they saved other kids. they kept them pinned down, and we're very proud of that. >> the timeframe of the response has led to criticism directly from the community in uvalde. in an interview with the "associated press," javier,

whose fourth grader jacqueline was killed in the attack, said people were shouting at the officers outside the building to go inside. he says he talked to other bystanders about charging into the school because police were not moving in. he told the "ap," quote, more could have been done. they were unprepared. nbc news reached out to texas dps for comment on that witness's statement. meanwhile, we know more about the weapons and the ammo the gunman had purchased easily. state and federal law enforcement officials tell nbc news the school shooter bought an ar-15 style rifle last tuesday, a day after he turned 18. he cannot buy a beer. the next day, he bought 375 rounds of ammunition. last friday, he bought a second semiautomatic rifle. nbc news estimates these total cost of these weapons was about $3,500. both weapons and the ammo were

bought at the same store. >> tom, tell us about the weapons. what do you know? >> very standard style ar-15s. one is much more common, a smith and weston. m&p 15. a lot of folks who know these weapons could easily see in their head. it is a common weapon. another made by daniel defense, ddmv-7. lesser known manufacturer. same result. military style weapons, as you eluded to earlier, joe. it was equipped with the laser sight. it is not like the movies where you would see if you were pointing at me right now, for instance, a red dot on my chest. but it does allow you, when you look down, and i've used a version of this, i've shot with it, it does allow somebody to be incredibly precise. the end of the day, this person, some of the details we're hearing -- and we don't want to be gratuitous of some of the information. we know some people are watching us with young children. potentially people impacted by this violence are watching us.

but the level of depravity that occurred in that classroom based on the information we have confirmed from law enforcement officials is incredible to hear. >> so he is in body armor? protective gear? >> you and i talked about this yesterday. >> right. >> police have now said that, in fact, he was not in body armor. >> how does his weapon compare to weapons police officers have, a first responder, maybe not the tactical unit that came in later? >> without a doubt, it is a much more high-powered weapon than what your standard patrol officer would have. it is much more high-powered than a 0.9 millimeters. even a . .45 caliber bullet. >> if you're a cop and hearing this weapon -- >> if an nypd patrol officer came into the studio right now, and it was myself with an ar-15 versus him, i definitively have the upper hand when it comes to a weapon. >> talk about it. there has been a debate about

allowing 18-year-old kids to be able to buy ar-15 style weapons. >> i think the key thing here, joe -- and we started to talk about this yesterday -- now, it is very clear. everything that happened here is within the confines of current law, state and federal, period. there is nothing here where you can go back -- and we have done this other other shootings in the past. we say, somebody didn't follow the law. if only somebody had done x. >> what you're saying is there is something that can be done. people who always try to stop any sensible gun safety legislation, oh, there's nothing that could have been done. well, not allowing 18-year-olds to buy weapons of war. >> that's needed in this case. >> this is a case that could have been passed here and also in buffalo, right? >> similar situation, exactly. another thing keyed in on the texas governor, the idea of mental health, which is certainly a concern in this

country. >> of course. >> they pointed toward the hundreds of millions of dollars they've spent not only on that but broadband access, so people in rural communities in texas could be able to do a telehealth or a remote -- >> which is something we support. >> but the key thing here, joe, that people have to understand, if i'm walking home tonight and i'm taking the subway and fall down the steps. i think i break my arm. i'm still of sound mind to be able to say, oh, i have a problem here. i have to get medical attention for this. >> right. >> by definition, somebody that has a mental health problem is not in that position to necessarily identify, oh, i've got a problem with the way i'm thinking. i have a problem with what is going on in my head. >> right. >> there is no trip wire that appears to have occurred here. we have no indication from local officials that this person ever sought or received any mental health care. we have no indication that a red flag -- his juvenile records are confidential. we don't have records on that -- would have been involved here. what i'm saying is, based on information from law enforcement that we have confirmed, there is

nothing at this point that would have stopped this type of shooting, any sort of a trip wire, by the purchasing of weapons or this person's behavior. >> unlike the massacre in buffalo, where a weapon of war was used to kill grandmothers shopping and others shopping at a grocery store. eddie, every time, they come up with a different excuse. it is video games. it's video games, like the united states of america is the only country in the world where kids play call of duty. >> right. >> fortnite. now, it's mental health. in other shootings, it'll be, oh, it is a police officer's fault. there's always an excuse. they never talk about guns. yet, there are mental health crises all over the world. kids are playing video games all over the world. kids are watching violent tv

shows and movies all over the world. people are decentized to violence all over the world. yet, the united states, unique in the slaughter. >> what is the missing link? >> the senseless slaughter that continues because of permissive gun laws. that's the difference. it's a big difference. >> it's the difference. >> it's the difference. >> in so many ways. i want to really just underline and underscore how you framed the discussion this morning. if this is a moral issue, a country captured by a paranoid minority, you know? and part of what i'm thinking about -- >> why are they paranoid? >> well, it varies, right? the main reason is there is this fear that government, that big brother -- >> where do they get their fear? >> from a particular party that -- >> the nra. >> nra, who has been talking

about jack-booted thugs since 1994. that's when george h. w. bush and others quit the nra. it's a campaign of fear, isn't it? >> absolutely. >> not just from the nra but from tv networks. >> absolutely. we've seen -- >> from bloggers, from people who make millions and millions of dollars telling americans that the black helicopters are coming after them. the helicopters that targeted afghans are coming to america. they're coming to kick down your doors. they're coming to kill you. >> yeah. so there is this crude cynical political play that has been playing out for at least four years. then there's this other part, joe, about the moral component. i know it's horrible that these babies are dead, but don't take away my gun. i know a million americans have died, but i don't want to wear a mask. i know -- i mean, part of what i'm trying to suggest here is that there is a selfishness that

is at the heart of the country, that's corroding, right, any sense of public good. >> responsible gun owners, if they actually read what was being proposed, their guns aren't being taken away. >> by the way, i say this all the time. i grew up with responsible gun owners. >> we're from the south. >> i grew up with hunters, as i said. first baptist church. meridian, mississippi. first baptist church in shamably, georgia. first baptist church in pensacola, florida. responsible gun owners whose dads take them out hunting when they're 6, 7, 8 years old. they grow up around guns. i grew up in a culture around guns. mika grew up in a culture around guns. guess what? they're so responsible. my god, they're so responsible. the guns are locked up. the ammo is put away. they're so responsible.

they see this madness on tv, and they're like, who needs that type of weapon? that's why, like -- >> paranoid minority. >> yeah, it's a paranoid minority. willie, it's all very calculated by gun lobbyists who represent gun manufacturers. they have been whipping a paranoid minority into a fury for a long time. i'm not sure why senators don't step forward when 90% of americans want universal background checks. i don't really get that. >> it's happening again right now. i mean, the hours after the attack, there were certain outlets that are saying, buy your guys. they are coming for your guns. have they noticed no one is ever coming for their guns? the big seizure. >> barack obama was elected, they're coming for your guns. >> sandy hook, they're coming for your guns. biden is elected, and it goes on. if you believe you have a right

to an ar-15, would you be open to the idea an 18-year-old shouldn't be able to buy a bunch of those, 400 ammo rounds without questions asked or -- >> do we need to buy land mines, as well? how far does it go? >> it is a constant scam. they're constantly whipping people into a frenzy. they're coming for your guns. they preach. we saw it during covid. there is this hyper toxic individual individuality. >> that's risen over the past 20 years. >> exactly. >> you don't have to wear a mask if a million people are dead. you don't have to say no to anything. you do whatever you want to do. this is what kevin williams talked about, how the right is having their hippie moment now. man, don't tell me what to do. no responsibility to your family. no responsibility to your neighbors. no responsibility to children who go to schools.

no responsibility to fellow church members. no responsibility to anybody. it's all about you, you, you. you do whatever the hell you want to do. you buy whatever weapon of war you want to buy. and if anybody, anybody tries to make you pull back a little bit from pursuing exactly what you want to do, with guns, with masks, with anything, oh, my god, they're communists. they're communists. >> yeah. >> oh, my god. >> that attitude, joe, is framed as patriotism. you're standing up to tyranny. because the government wants you to wear a mask and protect your neighbor. the government wants you to be more responsible about guns to protect 8-year-old kids inside elementary schools. that is patriotism, or at least that's the way it is pitched. >> you know what else they're doing right now? they're killing 13-year-old girls in a -- telling

13-year-old girls, if you're raped by your uncle, you don't have a choice. >> that'd make you a baby killer. >> i have a choice not to wear a piece of paper over my face, or to go into target and knock over displays of masks. but you don't have a choice if you're a 13-year-old girl who was raped by your uncle, to decide what you and your parents want to do with your life. baby killers, seriously? we know what party is filled with baby killers. we do. if you don't -- >> yesterday in texas. >> if you don't, then just look at that press conference. look at the people up on the stage. >> watch governor greg abbott never talk about guns. >> who had baby killed in their classrooms and still wouldn't talk about it. this is really grotesque.

really grotesque. you're not going to get away with it. you're not. >> there was far more emotion on the stage against beto o'rourke than there was in the discussion about the gunman or the loss of those lives. i think this idea of the personal individual, no one can tell me what to do, that's reinforced by the culture we live in. you're isolated with fellow travelers because of social media. you're staring at the screen on your phones. you don't have to interact with people who you disagree with. tom, the law enforcement response. look, the gunman obviously was armed to the teeth, but did not apparently have body armor. what is the reason for the delay? he had an interaction with someone out front, the officer who was stationed there at the school, who did not fire at him. >> correct. >> then why did it take 30, 40, 60 minutes for those officers to go inside and storm the room, even as parents were thinking of doing it themselves. >> let's address something you

said. i understand the body armor issue. we were talking about it yesterday, versus tactical versus -- there is some confusion initially in an incident and what is known and what is not known. we're beyond that now. we should not be asking, was it a 30-minute delay? 40-minute delay? was it a 60-minute delay? the timeframe timeline from texas law enforcement is now. we have to be really clear on what happened here. you want to talk about steps that can stop this? understanding what happened so other police departments are aware, so that you're accountable for the millions of dollars that you get from taxpayers, is incredibly important. i don't have a good timeline for you right now because i can't getcameras. >> that's concerning to me. enough time passed. it is time for a clear timeline. the key thing is, we learned after columbine, the response prior to columbine was, wait for a tactical team to arrive. that was what the belief was at the time. wait for the s.w.a.t. team to arrive, then they can go in. that didn't work in columbine.

that was a policy failure, not a law enforcement failure. the customs and border patrol agent who showed up at that school just because they heard the call and was shot in the process of shooting and killing, not an officer failure but a policy failure or a procedural failure. certainly could have occurred here. we need more information about it. a 30, 40, 60-minute delay is not acceptable. that is not the current practice. that's not what law enforcement is taught. i have an opportunity to go out with the nypd when they trained on active shooters. the idea is it doesn't matter if it's your second day on the job, 20-year veteran, whether you have the ar-15 in the back of your suv or whether you've got a 9-millimeter service weapon on you. you go in and push the fight. that's the term, push the fight. go at the shooter. stop them from firing at innocent civilians. we don't have a clear timeline here to understand exactly what happened. that's a problem. >> was the school resource officer armed and perhaps he

didn't have time to engage the shooter? at first, we thought there was a shootout at the door, but we're learning the school resource officer did not fire shots at the gunman. was there a confrontation, then he was pinned down and couldn't get shots off? >> that's a huge detail. was the officer not armed? if so, that's an issue. if you have an officer at the school, they need to be armed to handle this exact issue. we don't have that type of information. if you see somebody arriving at the school dressed in dark clothing with tactical gear and an ar-15 and they're not a cop, and they wouldn't look that way, it's not show-and-tell. you need to engage that person immediately. that's the time when you do take out the gun and it's either, you know, shoot, put down the gun, or fire. >> joe, you know this, it is hard to get into a school now. our kids' school, you have to be buzzed in and somebody looked you in the eye. how did he get through that? >> he had assault weapons. no one is messing with you. >> the problem is, again -- >> assault weapons?

>> we see it in all of these shootings. even if you have somebody there with a gun, they have a handgun. somebody is coming -- let me say it again because i have jackasses i've heard through the years saying ar-15, they ain't weapons of war cause those are automatic. these are guns that were designed specifically, designed specifically for soldiers to take onto battlefields. they were designed and are more deadly and more effective than the guns used in vietnam. >> they're easier to use than a handgun. ar-15, if you understand how to load it, it is very easy to fire. it was the first gun i ever shot. >> you know, if you look at the

senate testimony -- and i've been talking about this "atlantic" article that fallows wrote in '81. had nothing to do with slaughter. had everything to do with after vietnam. they were saying, why were the guns jamming? why were they heavy and horrible to use? m-16s were absolute disasters. so they had, i think, stoner who designed the ar-15 testify. the ar-15s are killing machines, smaller caliber. when it hits flesh, it goes apart. it destroys. it's just a killing machine. it's lighter. it's easier to use. it is easier to carry. it is designed to be the most effective killing machine to kill human beings, tom. this is what -- this is what greg abbott and ron desantis and, i guess, mitch mcconnell

and every other republican in the senate want 18-year-olds to be able to buy for their 18th birthday. >> look, the -- my job is not to propose policy as a reporter. >> right. >> my opinion is moot. >> but is there anything i said about ar-15s that's wrong? >> that's what i wanted to address. the facts of this case are simple. this person, the day after they turned 18, started accumulating weapons, started accumulating 375 rounds of ammo. found a gun that is very easy to use. we don't know his prior gun history, but it's very easy to use. as we reported yesterday, required some of the parents of these victims to give their dna. that was the only way they could identify whose child belonged to who. it is a horrible fact, but it is a fact of what occurred here. we can talk about the school and the police response. it always must be examined, and we have to understand that. the bottom line at the end of

the day is, unlike many, many other shootings i've covered, there appears to be, based on what we know so far, no trip wire legally, no trip wire we've seen with respect to a red flag law. texas doesn't have one. but unlike buffalo, it wouldn't have appapplied. there is nothing i can sit here and say, joe, mika, where i will -- willie, the whole gang, if somebody did this, the shooting wouldn't have occurred. i can't tell you that, based on what we know on the law and the case. so then it is up to a decision about policy moving forward, because i don't think we could have stopped this person with the laws we have. >> nbc's tom winter, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," we will hear more about the many, many young lives lost in this week's tragic shooting. plus, the uvalde school district had an extensive safety plan to prevent worst-case scenarios. but 19 children were still killed. we're going to run through the

measures that were taken and why they may have fallen short. and what is congress doing about gun violence? we'll talk about the most realistic path ahead, which at this point seems to be so-called red flag legislation. plus, during the nba playoffs last night, a moment of silence and a call to action. republican senator marco rubio of florida had something to say about that. >> of course. because he is going to talk about that instead of talking about the dead children and the fact that an 18-year-old can buy a weapon of war and go in and slaughter children. also, we're digging into a stunning, new report about the january 6th attack on the capitol, and how former president trump reacted to rioters who chanted, "hang mike pence." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

finding the perfect project manager isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found him. he's in adelaide between his daily lunch delivery and an 8:15 call with san francisco. and you can find him, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. right now, we're all feelin' the squeeze. we're having to get creative. find a new way. but birthdays still happen. fridays still call for s'mores. you have to make magic, and you're figuring out how to do that. what you don't have to figure out is where to shop. because while you're getting creative, walmart is doing what we always do. keeping prices low for you every day. so you can save money and live better. ♪

while wayfair is installing your new refrigerator, so y and haulingmoney away your old one, you're binging the latest true crime drama. while the new double oven you financed is taking care of dinner and desert, you're remembering how to tie a windsor. and with wayfair's memorial day sale you're saving big. now through may 31st save on ge appliances up to 30% off. get the brands you trust to get the job done at wayfair. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ cal: our confident forever plan is possible with a cfp® professional. a cfp® professional can help you build a complete financial plan. visit letsmakeaplan.org to find your cfp® professional. ♪♪

♪("i've been everywhere" by johnny cash) ♪ ♪i've traveled every road in this here land!♪ ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪of travel i've had my share, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere.♪ ♪♪

now to that moment we mentioned a bit ago. news conference in uvalde, texas governor abbott was interrupted by his challenger in the race for governor, beto oo'rourke. the former congressman was in the audience. as governor abbott wrapped up his opening remarks, o'rourke walked to the stood of the stage and addressed the governor. >> don't play this stuff. >> the next shooting is right now and you're doing nothing. you're all bringing up nothing. >> no, this is not the place to talk this over. >> this is predictable. >> sir, you're out of line. sir, you are out of line. >> i'm standing up for the kids -- >> please leave this auditorium. i can't believe you're a sick son of a [ bleep ] that would come to a deal like this to make a political issue.

>> this is on you until you choose to do something about it. >> o'rourke, as you can see, was escorted out of the news conference eventually but continued to speak to reporters outside. >> do you want a solution? stop selling ar-15s in the state of texas. you want a solution? have universal background checks. want a solution? red flag laws or extreme risk potential orders, stopping a shooting before it happened. want a solution? safe storage laws. those are four solutions brought up by the people of texas. each one of those has broad bipartisan support right now. we can get that done if we had a governor who cared more about the people of texas than he does his own political career or his fealty to the nra. if you need any proof of that, check the schedule for the nra's convention this friday, right here in the state of texas. >> o'rourke has called on the governor to withdraw from the national rifle association's convention this weekend in houston, tweeting, urge them to hold it anywhere but texas.

>> my god. >> yeah, it really is unbelievable. mika, you know, guy on stage calling him a sick son of a bitch for actually bringing up guns. >> the one thing that was not brought up in the press conference. >> because, again, look over there. look over there. it is always something else. it's mental health. i haven't seen governor abbott funding mental health in texas. everybody goes, wow, he's really -- no. it's just an excuse today to make people forget about the slaughter. another slaughter. yet another slaughter in abbott's state. mika, you talk about a sick son of a bitch. the guy called beto the sick son of a bitch. the sick son of a bitch were on the stage, the freaks on the stage that keep passing gun legislation that allows

18-year-olds to go get weapons of war and gun down little children. everything that beto said, everything that he said to those reporters is supported by the overwhelming majority of americans. that's what's really sick here. >> how could they not understand that -- >> abbott doesn't want to talk about it. marco rubio doesn't want to talk about it. says the nba doesn't want to talk about china. marco doesn't want to talk about guns. you know what? there is no moral defense to this. there is no political defense. they continue to stand in the way, which republicans did yesterday, stand in the way of legislation that 8 out of 10 americans support. maybe 9 out of 10 americans support it. how many americans do you think would support stopping an 18-year-old who can't buy a beer, who can't -- >> not mature enough. >> -- aren't a car. >> can't make good decisions. >> who can't rent a car from avis, to go out and get a gun

that's more deadly than the guns we gave our troops in vietnam. i think that's the majority position, just like the background checks, just like everything else, mika, that governor abbott, that senator rubio, that every one of those people up on the stage calling beto a son of a bitch for talking about this? >> it was one, big massive exercise in avoidance, and it was painful to watch. i jumped out of my seat watching the television. i don't blame anyone else for getting emotional. they should have been more, quite frankly, validating of that. but that would have to involve being honest. >> again, not a political issue, mika. a moral issue. this is a moral issue, isn't it, mika? >> it is. it's our children. >> that's the fallback always, right? don't politicize it. stop playing politics.

call it whatever you want to call it. let's call it solutions. it's not politics. we're trying to find a way to stop little kids from dying in their schools with high-powered rifles. >> getting ready for the big meeting in houston, they didn't want to step on any toes before they go meet with wayne la pierre this weekend. >> willie, what'd we do after january 6th? talked about it. what'd we do after september 11th? we talked about it. republicans talked about it. when a muslim in san bernardino goes around and uses a gun and kills a lot of people, think they talk about it. when an immigrant, an illegal immigrant kills people, oh, my god -- >> fox news alert. >> for 48 hours, immediately. >> yeah. >> they talk about it. they do massive segments about it. so why is it that they don't want to talk about second graders and third graders and fourth graders being

unrecognizable because they've been gunned down by weapons of war? >> there's no humanity on that stage. >> none. >> they gave the performance statements. >> it was incredible. >> the horror of the day, the thoughts and prayers, but there was no humanity about 19 children and 2 teachers slaughtered in a classroom. let's go to san antonio, texas. nbc news correspondent garrett haake is there. good morning. what's the latest? what are you hearing? >> reporter: well, willie, i mean, the political fallout out of that o'rourke thing yesterday, i think, is going to continue. this is the kind of thing where this is what a lot of democrats have been hoping for in the state of texas. someone to express their frustration that they've felt, which is in line with the kind of politics that he has liked to practice. it is in line with the political theory that says there is a voter base in texas who wants the kind of thing you've been outlining. that there is an 80% majority in a state like texas who wants the policies that we haven't seen

here in this state. like red flag laws, which were discussed after santa fe and sutherland springs, the other mass shootings in texas, but didn't get off the ground. the question of buying long guns, buying rifles at 18, but handguns not allowed to be bought in texas until you're 21 is the other piece of the puzzle. governor abbott was asked about that at the press conference and made an argument it's been 60 years that that's been the law in texas. you could buy a long gun at 18, not a handgun. essentially said that was the reason not to change it. as a texan myself, i can tell you, it very much has changed in this state in 60 years. that question deserves a follow-up. now, the question about the nra meeting this weekend is an interesting one. in houston on friday, john cornyn, texas senator, had been scheduled to appear. he's since said that it is not related to uvalde, but he will not be going.

likewise, dan crenshaw, republican congressman from houston, said he will not be going. governor abbott hasn't outlined his schedule. the comment at the press conference yesterday was taking it day by day in this moment. whether he chooses to show up on friday and share a stage with former president trump, who is expected to attend, ted cruz, who is expected to attend, is going to be very interesting to watch. there will be reporters at that event. they're going to get more questions about guns. there was really only a handful of questions about guns at the press conference with a lot of questions left, frankly, unanswered. >> garrett, before we let you go, is the governor planning to speak at the nra convention this weekend? is the lieutenant governor planning to be there, as well? >> reporter: they are taking it day by day, willie. no definitive scheduling remarks by the governor. they are still on the schedule. they're still expected to appear. >> as will former president donald trump, who confirmed he will, in fact, be there in houston at the nra convention. garrett, thank you very much. mika. we're learning more about

the victims killed in tuesday's attack. all whom have now been identified. first the teachers. irma garcia spent more than two decades educating children before her body was found on tuesday. reportedly embracing her students in her arms until her last breath. the daughters of eva mireles said in a social media post, their mother was a best friend and best mom anyone could ask for. 10-year-old jailah silguero was the baby of her family. her father says according to the "new york times," she told him monday night she wanted to stay home from school the next day, which was uncash but went to school. jackie cazares and annabelle

rodriguez were cousins. jackie had her communion two weeks ago. described the child as, quote, my little diva. annabelle was quieter and an honor roll student. 10-year-old xavier lopez also made the honor roll on the day he was killed. his family says he was eager to come home and share the news with his three brothers but decided to stay at school to watch a movie and eat popcorn with classmates instead. they also say he had a girlfriend from class who he would talk with on the phone. this is 10-year-old jose flores jr., joseito, as his grandfather called him. grandfather carried a photo of him in his wallet. 9-year-old uziyah garcia is described by his grandfather as a, quote, special, special boy who loved football and video games.

in a facebook post, the mother of alexandria rubio writes she told her, quote, beautiful and smart daughter that she loved her and would pick her up after school on tuesday. this was the last time she would see her daughter alive. tess mata is described by her older sister as, quote, a precious angel. she says she will not remember tess as a victim but as a survivor. a verified gofundme account is confirming the death of jayce luevanos. his aunt wrote she is shocked she will never see her nephew again. the family of 11-year-old miranda mathis searched for her for hours before learning she had been killed in the attack. she was loved dearly according to her cousin. who asked that the family be kept in everyone's prayers. 10-year-old eliahna garcia was

also killed in tuesday's shooting. her mom says her heart is, quote, shattered to pieces and she will never stop thinking of her baby girl. the aunt of 10-year-old alithia ramirez tells "people" magazine she was at work on tuesday when she saw her brother on the news searching for his daughter. the last thing alithia reportedly gave her aunt was a drawing of sunflowers. rojelio torres is described by his family as a, quote, intelligent, hard-working, and helpful person. his aunt tells local media in texas it took 12 hours for them to receive word that rojelio was killed. 10-year-old makenna lee elrod had, quote, the biggest heart with a smile that would light up the room. a friend's mother says the girl and her daughter recently exchanged friendship bracelets.

nevaeh bravo's death was confirmed by her cousin on twitter, according to the "los angeles times." along with the photo she wrote, quote, rest in peace, my sweet girl. you didn't deserve in. loved ones of maite rodriguez posted photos on facebook after learning of the shooting, hoping the 10-year-old would be found alive. later on, they wrote she had been found and was, quote, flying high with the angels. the aunt of eliahana cruz torres says she spoke with her niece the night before the attack. the girl was reportedly looking forward to her final softball game of the season on tuesday and was nervous to find out if she had made the all-star team. 10-year-old layla salazar was reportedly the last of the victims to be identified. her father tells the "philadelphia inquirer" his

daughter was fun and they'd sing "sweet child of mine" in the car every day while he was driving to school. amerie garza is described as a friendly 10-year-old girl who was, quote, full of life, a jokester, and always smiling. her father says she loved play-doh. she was photographed at the school just hours before the scooting receiving an award for her grades. she made the honor roll. here's her dad, angel garza, a medical aide, describing how he learned his daughter was dead. >> they started bringing the kids out, and i was aiding assistance. one little girl was covered in blood, head to toe, like, i thought she was injured. i asked what was wrong. she says she's okay. she was hysterical, saying they shot her best friend. they killed her best friend, and she's not breathing. she was trying to call the cops.

i asked the little girl the name, and she -- and said amerie. >> that's how you learned? >> she was so sweet. she was the sweetest little girl who did nothing wrong. she listened to her mom and dad. she always brushed her teeth. she was creative. she made things for us. she never got in trouble at school. i just want to know what she did to be a victim. >> she loved being a big sister.

>> 3-year-old son named zane who asked for his sister every morning when he wakes up. just -- >> he doesn't know at this point, i assume? >> we've informed him that his sister is now with god and that she will no longer be with us. of course, he just cried. i mean, he's 3 years old. still emotional for him to even process. she just turned 10. her birthday was on the 10th. may the 10th, two weeks ago. >> two week ago. you had a party for her? >> we had -- we just gathered with family and had a dinner. she just got her phone. she'd been wanting a phone for so long, and we finally got it for her.

she just tried to call the police. >> she actually tried to call? >> yeah. yes, i got confirmation from two of the students in her classroom that she was just trying to call authorities. i guess he just shot her. how can you look at this girl and shoot her? my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala.

at adp, we use data-driven insights to design hr solutions to provide flexible pay options and greater workforce visibility today, so you can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leads to another, yeah, yeah ♪ new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are positive for acetylcholine receptor antibodies, it may feel like the world is moving without you. but the picture is changing, with vyvgart. in a clinical trial,

participants achieved improved daily abilities with vyvgart added to their current treatment. and vyvgart helped clinical trial participants achieve reduced muscle weakness. vyvgart may increase the risk of infection. in a clinical study, the most common infections were urinary tract and respiratory tract infections. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or if you have symptoms of an infection. vyvgart can cause allergic reactions. the most common side effects include respiratory tract infection, headache, and urinary tract infection. picture your life in motion with vyvgart. a treatment designed using a fragment of an antibody. ask your neurologist if vyvgart could be right for you.

xfinity mobile runs on america's most reliable ask your neurologist 5g network, but for up to half the price of verizon so you have more money for more stuff. this phone? fewer groceries. this phone? more groceries! this phone? fewer concert tickets. this phone? more concert tickets. and not just for my shows. switch to xfinity mobile for half the price of verizon. new and existing customers get amazing value with our everyday pricing. switch today. spare me the [ bleep ] about mental illness. wet don't have any more mental illness than any other country in the world. you can't explain this through the prism m of mental illness. we're not an outlier on mental illness. we're an outlier with the access of firearms and the ability of criminals and very sick people

to get their hands on firearms. that's what makes america different. >> see, he said it was bullshit, and it is bullshit. they have us talking about bullshit. mental illness. violent video games last time. a guy with a gun in parkland that didn't go in -- they're always talking about everything but the actual issue. what separates us from britain and every other country? not mental illness. they got it there, too. not violent video games. they've got that there, too. it's guns. it's guns. >> weapons of war. >> it's weapons of war. it's ar-15s designed to be more deadly than the weapons that our soldiers used in vietnam.

and it's just -- mara. >> mara gaye is here. >> to them, it is a semantics thing. by the way, i grew up around guns. i own guns. i grew up in a gun culture. what they do is they always try to talk to you. oh, those are not automatic weapons. automatic weapons were banned. those are semi. okay, now you're trying to take away my handgun. it is always a semantics game. it's always b.s. yesterday, yesterday, friends of mine were talking about how it was unbecoming. in the press conference, it was unbecoming that beto talked about guns. actually talked about guns. >> because it was avoided. >> instead of mental health or video games or some other

nonsense. look over there. look over there! anything but the thing that's killing our children in schools, killing christians in churches, killing jews in synagogues, killing muslims in mosques, killing country music fans at concerts. >> that's right. you know, the other thing that makes us exceptional in many ways at the moment is the cowardice of some of these politicians who, despite what the american people want, which is rational gun control, despite knowing what the right thing to do is, despite watching their constituents, some of them children, be mowed down by ar-15s, still don't do the right thing because they're listening to the gun lobby and to donors. instead of -- and to a radical fringe instead of what they were sent there to do, which is, you are a public servant. do your job. do your job.

you are unfit for office. obviously, a lot of these public servants are unfit for office. i have to say, you know, as a reporter, when you see someone who is running for office, politicians, yes, they pull political stunts, sure, but what beto o'rourke did that was, i think, extremely important, was he stood up and said, "it is time to make people uncomfortable. the time for civility has passed." my colleague, roxanne, had a column on this in the "times" yesterday. you want to talk about civility? what is civil about being a country where we allow someone to go in and murder 19 children? that is not civil. >> no. >> so i think that time has passed. it is really time to, obviously, safely, but within the bounds of our democracy, you know, we were talking about protest movements a couple weeks aago. it is time to make some people uncomfortable.

>> in the news conference, i think what prompted him to gun up is what prompted me to jump out of my chair, is we listened to governor abbott drone on and on and on about mental illness, saying that the first responders and that the, you know, cops and people involved with this, that's what they told him that they wanted to talk about, mental health. he was using this issue -- this is a big issue -- as a way to avoid. my question, i'll just put the question out there and let it hang, at what point does cowardice become evil, as well? governor abbott was wondering, what could be more evil than what the shooter did? i have a question for republican politicians. is avoidance of what is obvious and what is killing our babies, baby killers, what is killing our babies evil?

three pillars, okay. maybe one is mental illness. you can't say the impressive sale of guns in america which have skyrocketed over the past few years according to the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, you cannot say that is not part of the issue. you cannot avoid that without being complicit, then head to your nra meeting this weekend. it's disgusting. >> it's -- >> it is so disgusting. >> it's not just the guns. >> depraved, actually. >> it is the type of guns being sold. it's the weapons of war being sold. is it evil? >> to avoid that? yes. >> i mean -- >> i'll answer. >> -- we said at the top of the show, the only thing that's required for evil to prevail are for good men and good women to do nothing. mike, that's what they do time and time again. they do absolutely nothing. and they do nothing despite the

fact that this keeps happening. this keeps happening in abbott's state. this keeps happening across america. by the way, we talk about political courage. i was a politician. i know what political courage is. i know what political courage is not. let me tell you what political courage is not. supporting an issue than 90% of americans support. let me tell you, i would love this issue because i would go to the town hall meetings and say, "i don't care how dangerous this is. i'm telling you, i don't care!" knowing in the back of my mind, 9 out of 10 people out here support me, but i'm going to look like zelenskyy. "i'm going to say no to the nra! i'm going to say no!" they're going, "oh, my god, he

has courage." >> because it's the right thing to do. >> he wants his money. >> 9 out of 10 americans support this. this is not about political courage, mitt romney. this is not about political courage, marco rudio. this is not about political courage, joe manchin. because 9 out of 10 americans support this. this is about you protecting gun manufacturers! it's cut and dry. americans want universal background checks, and you know it's the right thing to do. you know it would make a difference. and you know it would save lives of people in chicago, in new york, in los angeles, and across

the nation. because it would stop people from getting guns and passing it on to gang members, to drug dealers. you know that. but you do nothing. it requires no political courage because the majority of their constituents would be for it. oh, but they'd piss off the nra. they'd piss off a small, paranoid, radical minority, so they just don't do it, mike. >> it's about all of that, joe. it's all about a country this morning, today, this week, that you can feel teetering. just teetering on balance toward becoming unbalanced. and it's about a country where children die in schools because of the ineffectiveness and cowardice of elected officials. it's about all of that and more. it's about a congress of the

united states, house and senate, elected by people in various districts and various states, who go to work and are presented with the following. we have an issue involving a specific weapon, an assault rifle. it's killing children. it's killing grandmothers. it is extraordinarily easy to use. it's even easier to purchase. it's a danger to democracy. it's a danger to your family, to your children, and your grandchildren. but we have a way to stop it. we have a way to slow down the murders of children. here's how we do it. we establish, again, a ban on the sale of assault weapons. we establish, again, universal pre-checks, so they can't purchase weapons. your elected officials, knowing

this, seeing the evidence, seeing their own futures politically perhaps at stake, they rise up in the majority and they say no. no, we won't do it. that's where we are. you can feel the nuts and bolts of our democracy popping loose when they vote to continue insanity. >> what they do is they vote to stop the vote. republicans vote to stop a debate. republicans vote to stop 90% of americans having their will done. i'm just curious, all of these people that are sitting back there going, oh, you know, we must protect senate rules. we must protect. like, what are these people want to be remembered for when they die? do they want to be remembered as people who stood and did nothing while children were being mowed

down, and they did so because they protected a procedural rule of the united states senate? put that on a tombstone. that's pretty weak sauce. >> we have jon meacham coming up in a minute. he talks about the portrait test. what do you want people to think years from now when they look up at your portrait. it is shameful, which is happening with the portraits that will be on the wall. there's been deflection that you talked about, what we're hearing now from some republicans is, well, actually, we need bigger guns at schools so if somebody comes with an ar-15, the school resource officer also has an ar-15 and can shoot back. we heard from senator ted cruz last night saying, schools should only have one entrance to the school. one entrance to the school. that way, we know where the guy is coming and can stop him dead in his tracks. these are deeply un-serious questions happening around the issue. mike's point about the gun,

we're learning more of the weapon and ammo. officials tell nbc news the school shooter did bring an ar-15 style rifle. he bought it last tuesday, a day after he turned 18. the next day, 375 rounds of ammunition. last friday, he bought a second semiautomatic rifle. nbc news estimates the total cost was at least $3,500. the weapons and ammo bought at the same store. by the way, he is an unemployed high school the $3,500. according to public documents, the uvalde consolidated independent school district had doubled its security budget in recent years, in part to comply with state legislation passed in the wake of a 2018 school shooting. the district adopted an array of security measures that included its own police force, threat assessment teams at each school,

a threat reporting system, social media monitoring software, fences around schools, and a requirement that teachers lock their classroom doors. this is according to the security plan posted on the district's website. nbc news reports the school district has not answered questions about how the security plan was implemented. the death toll suggests, yet, even security plans that appear to be comprehensive and up to the latest research-based standards may have gaps and ultimately fall short of preventing the worst-case scenario. joining us now, his torre you can't even historian at vanderbilt university, the aforementioned jon meacham. i stole your line about the portrait test, but just your thoughts of the last 48 hours, absorbing what we're going through in this country? >> it's yours to steal. you know, lincoln said that we all -- that men act on incentive. so there has -- we don't have to

be -- we can wish that all these people would do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, but failing that, which is the story of the world since the garden of eden, there has to be an incentive for them to do the right thing. i do think the power of memory, the power of how they themselves will stand in the stream of time matters enormously. it may not do the trick, but at least it's something. because there's this kind of willful failure to engage reality on this. and i'm not sure -- not to be, again, overly grand. i'm just not quite sure we're up to this as a democracy. our friend eddie is there. he and i have talked about this a lot. democracy is really hard because

it requires us to see each other not as adversaries, not solely as competitors, but as neighbors. and we don't have to love our neighbor. that'd be great if we did. but if everybody had loved their neighbor way back, jesus wouldn't have had to issue a commandment about it. you don't issue commandments about things people are already doing. we do have to respect that neighbor. part of respecting that neighbor is being able to go to a school in the united states of america and not worry about being shot by a combat weapon purchased by somebody, who i think i'm right about this, couldn't buy beer legally. >> couldn't buy beer. couldn't do so many other things in the state of texas. >> those laws and regulations are in place in texas for what reasons? >> could not -- >> they're not old enough. >> -- do those things, jon, could get a weapon of war.

>> so here's -- joe, i'm like you. i own guns. the safest place to be a duck is near me with a gun. but i grew up in tennessee. you know, i would license them. i'd register them. without a hint of reluctance. my car is. i register to vote. i register to drive. somehow, i'm not required to have this weapon that can create mayhem without registering it. leave that aside because nobody is talking about it. leave that aside. what if these laws that are on the table, whether it's background checks or just taking, as we were saying, weapons of war, far more sophisticated than the weapon my father carried in combat in vietnam. think about that for a second.

my father was in the 4th infantry division, and he did not have access to this kind of weapon. just sit with that for one second. so let's say that's the case. stipulate that because that's a fact. not that facts tend to matter, but stipulate that for a second. no law is going to solve everything. tragedy cannot be outlawed. it's not going to happen. but what if one life is saved? just one. one disturbed person, one white supremacist, one criminal. accept all the rhetoric on the right about that. put that in this template. what if it is one life? the bible tells us that you rejoice at the return of a prodigal. you rejoice at the return of one

sheep. what if that -- again, leave aside that that's the right thing to do. push that to the side. act on incentive, where we started. what if it were your kid who is the one kid who doesn't get killed? think about that sentence for a second. what i just said in 2022, to go to mike's point. in the united states of america, the longest functioning democracy, i just said a double or triple negative about your kid not being shot. that's suddenly the standard? >> yeah. >> let's make that the standard for the purposes of this conversation. that's what i would ask everybody who lives not far from where i'm sitting, not far from where, joe, you grew up, eddie, you grew up. willie, you went to school. here's my point. what if a legislative solution could stop one mass shooting and

save one life? >> jon, the problem is, we have legislative solutions that most definitely would do that. >> yeah. >> that have overwhelming support. and not only are we having legislators, republican legislators and governors refusing to do that in your state, they're making laws even more radical. i want to read to you what your governor said after passing a law that allows people to carry concealed weapons without a mer permit. which, by the way, i patiently wait a year later for my permit in florida to do the same thing. if i were in tennessee, so many other states, i could just walk in, get a gun, put it in my pocket, and walk out. this is what your governor said. thank you, members of the general assembly and the nra,

for helping get this done. and, jon, scene. >> yeah. yeah. it's a set of priorities that are, i believe, fundamentally wrong. but, again, because we live -- edmond burke taught us this. we live in a real world. we have to deal with the world as we confront it. so nobody is saying that, suddenly, this becomes a northern european nation, god forbid that we should all live longer and have access to social services. again, leave that to the side. nobody is saying that somehow or another, something should happen today or tomorrow that would fundamentally alter this

culture. we can argue later about whether the culture should be, why it is, why it is the nra is the way it is. it's all linked, by the way, to most of the things in our life, again, professor glaude can jump in here. remember, the gun control debates in this country began after what? the riots and the civil rights and voting rights acts of the mid 1960s. lyndon johnson signed the 1968 gun control act. it's fascinating, read his statement on signing. it's politically, as everything with lbj, it is politically astute. he is trying to reassure people, saying this is a law and order bill. he knew he had that issue. but guns became an issue in this country as the sort of contemporary modern era began. it is a 50-year story or so. yes, everybody wants to, you

know -- people on the right want this to be about samuel adams and flint lockes and all that. that's a useful and entirely irrelevant past. but, really, this is about the mid 1960s forward. again, i'll just say, nobody is talking about taking everything away. what we're talking about is taking military weapons out of civilian hands. >> yeah. by the way, this doesn't go back to the -- just like abortion. people don't like to talk about this. evangelicals. the baptist church, southern baptists were pro-choice until about 1979/1980. suddenly, jerry falwell said, hey, we can use this issue to get evangelicals away from jimmy carter and get them on our side. it's like gun laws. 1960s, white people in suburbs were freaking out at the riots. suddenly, they were okay with gun control. they didn't want black people to get guns and come to their

neighborhoods. >> especially after the panthers made the wrong turn in sack krmt sacramento, right? >> this has nothing to do with founding fathers. this is a recent development. >> right. jon asked the question, and we've been talking about this across the country, about whether or not we were up to this. right? this is a question we have to grapple with, joe. is the toxic combination of greed, gun manufacturers, selfishness, the individuality you talked about, and hatred, corroding the very foundations of american democracy? do we have a notion, a robust notion of a collective self-conception to address something like this? >> right. >> in that case, the question we have to ask ourselves is, given the current state of the country, are we up to this? or is this the latest example of, you know, the decline of the american experiment?

i asked the question during break, and it is a question i'm still grappling with, how in the hell can we claim to be the greatest country in the world and allow our babies to be slaughtered over and over again. >> you can't. >> mara, the question is, we're seeing -- we're seeing the extremes being pushed further and further and further. i've been saying over the past couple weeks, you start looking at joe biden's low approval ratings, combined with democrats actually starting to do much better in generic balloting. 10 points, picking up 12, 14 points the last month or so. you start wondering whether this extremism by republicans, whether it's on overturning a 50-year precedent that 73% of americans support, whether it's their leaders talking about replacement theory and saying that a jewish international

banker is trying to declare, quote, demographic war on america, or whether it's allowing little children to be gunned down in schools and saying there's nothing we can do about it? i don't know. maybe i'm too optimistic. i do think a lot of americans are starting to say, okay, these people are crazy. enough. >> i hope so. you know, i think the other concern here is that that's the other pressure that's being put on the democracy. which is, we are really seeing now exactly who is in control. which is a minoritarian extremist of the country. whether it be the nra or people who want to take away the right of a woman to choose whether or not she has a child. that's who is in control, not the american people themselves. i think the helplessness that we all feel right now, you know, as voters, as citizens, is we all

know what the right thing to do is. the american people in this case support gun control. we still can't do it. something in the democracy is broken. the question is, well why? why don't we care about our neighbor? why don't we have the collective sense of destiny? of course, you know, i believe that's because the rot is white supremacy in this country. until we confront that, we're not going to gather the collective will, to see one another as our neighbors, as we see ourselves. i think that's a longer conversation, but it is heartbreaking. because until you see one child that could be your child, you know, if you can't see every kid as that could be my kid, this is not going to change. and it's hard to see how we fix that. i mean, you can't tell people, just go vote and things will

resolve themselves. people are voting. despite sending people to washington to do their job, they're not doing their job. they're listening to the nra instead. something is broken. >> right. you look at -- we talked about abortion. 28, 29%. only 28%, 29% of americans want roe overturned. looks like it is going to be overturned. we talk about background checks. 10%, 11%, 12% are opposed. those are the people. that minority, that radical minority is running washington, d.c. right now. that's a broken democracy. any senator that says, "oh, i have to worry about procedure, procedure,"and allows 10%, 12% of americans to continue this, this murder, this mayhem, these policies that the overwhelming majority of americans oppose, they've got a twisted, backwards

vow of democracy. >> you just walked through the law in the state of tennessee with jon about permit-less carry. let's go to tennessee. they instituted the same thing in texas. 60% of texans object. the governor had been, well, i don't know. a permit means you go through a shooting class, do everything to own a gun. they passed the law because he felt the pressure of the gun lobbies. universal background checks, 18% of people in texas oppose them. in texas! >> come on. >> in texas. 80% of texans support that. that means a lot of republicans, too. yet, you don't get it because of special interests. so these are, as you point out, these are many 80/20 issues that politicians still are not going along with the 80%. senate majority leader chuck schumer signalled yesterday he

will not bring house-passed background checks up for a vote yet. instead, he'll give lawmakers a chance to address a bipartisan deal to address gun violence. chris murphy of connecticut asked for ten days to engage with republicans on a compromise. the most realistic path forward may be red flag legislation, allowing authorities to seize guns from someone considered to be a danger to themselves or others. 19 states already have red flag laws, including florida and indiana. steny hoyer tweeted yesterday, he will bring a national red flag bill to the floor for a vote in june. it remains to be seen which republicans chris murphy can work with on this issue. let's bring in mental health policy expert, dr. benjamin miller. thank you for being with us this morning. we heard yesterday from governor abbott, a focus on mental illness. we talk a lot on this show about mental illness. clearly, a big problem and something worthy of all our attention in this country.

what have you made of the discussion of the symptoms, what we saw in uvalde? >> thanks for having me on, willie. i have to cknowledge this moment. i've watched you talk about this, seeing mika read out the n names, and the emotional toll it takes on me as a parent. i hear my kids running down the hall getting ready for school. parents are not hearing those footsteps this morning. my heart goes out. we as a nation have to reflect on how this impacts us and our mental health. let's not confuse this. there is no evidence that suggests mental illness causes gun violence. guns cause gun violence. we have two separate issues here. we have a massive mental health and addiction crisis in the country, one ignored. 2020, the beginning of the pandemic, we saw 186,000 lives lost to drug overdose, alcohol, and suicide. that is a problem that's running in the background. meanwhile, we have this gun issue being discussed today, and

that is important. if you want to ask about the mental health of the nation, talk about our kids. the last two year, we've had pediatric societies and mental health hospitals, children's hospitals, declare a mental health state of emergency. our kids were suffering, then this happens again this week. the shootings happen. think about the added trauma that plays in our communities and the difficulty of our kids and processing just how many things are hitting them at one time. >> we're caught in a vicious cycle. mike barnicle, before you go to the doctor, governor abbott started his news conference talking about mental health. he said, we as a state and as a society need to do better, a better job with mental health. it's just important to point out that, in april, he slashed $211 million from the department that oversees mental health. >> wait, i thought he supported mental health. >> i know. >> i thought that's all he cared about, was mental health.

>> he cut the money, so i wonder, maybe he was just filibustering the news conference so perhaps he wouldn't have to deal with questions on weapons of war and whether or not an 18-year-old, who is not mature enough to buy a beer, can walk in and buy an assault rifle. or maybe two. just tons of ammo without any questions asked. just walk out. i digress. >> and go to a school and do this. >> murder babies. kill babies. i just want to take the word, the concept of baby killer that republicans use all the time to sit on their high horse and act all judgmental, and stamp up right across all their names, until they actually face the problem. mike barnicle, i digress. >> governor abbott, given his behavior, his duplicity, his hypocrisy, he's barely worth

talking about. he is who he is, and he's done what he's done. dr. miller, i would like you to tell us, what do we do, if you can, about the walking wounded in this nation? the parents and a lot of little kids who have access to everything we've seen in the past two days. what do we do about that population? >> thank you for asking the question. it weighs heavy on my heart as a parent. it does to not just clinicians but all of us processing this out. there's three things really we have to do now. number one, we need to have honest conversations with our kids. we need to be realistic, and we need to have honest conversations about the state of the nation. they're going to hear it from someone else if they don't hear it from us. let's be the filter that gives them the information that they can process and handle. number two, we have to ask our kids about their emotions. how are you feeling about going to school today? what is it like?

there's a lot of fear. i've heard it from my own kids, a lot of age si anxiety. what does this mean for me? if we don't process it with them, they'll look for other ways which might not be the healthiest ways. we have to take care of ourselves, number three. reading out the names this morning, i had a hard time pulling it together. i have a child that age. it's tough. if we do not process those emotions, all this mental health stuff we're talking about, that we were already experiencing as a nation, it is only going to get worse. if we want to heal, we have to talk about it. if we want to heal, we have to put meaningful action in place, gun reform. we have to invest in issues of mental health and addiction. >> the scars, the mental scars stay with those not only affect bud children all over the country. mika and i, we -- one of our

children took years to get over newtown. took years to get over the horror of newtown. >> how could you not? >> how could you not? >> if you have a heart, if you feel, you're impacted. >> afraid to go to school for years. >> dr. benjamin miller, thank you very much. thank you. jon meacham, thank you, as well. we really appreciate both of your insight and perspective this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," republican congressman adam kinzinger tweeted this yesterday. quote, after the shooting in vegas, i came out for raising the age of gun purchase, banning high capacity magazines and bump stocks, universal background checks and red flag laws. as a result, the nra turned on me. best decision i made. he joins us to talk about what congress and, specifically, members of the republican party can do to address gun violence.

also ahead, president biden marked the second anniversary of the murder of george floyd yesterday with a signing of an executive order on police reform. the reverend al sharpton was there, and he joins the table next. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪♪

it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. ♪ with my hectic life, you'd think retirement would be the last thing on my mind. hey mom, can i go play video games? sure! ...after homework. thankfully, voya provides comprehensive solutions, and shows me how to get the most out of my workplace benefits. what's the wi-fi password again? here... you... go. cool, thanks. no problem. voya helps me feel like i got it all under control. because i do. oh, she is good. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected.

right now, we're all feelin' the squeeze. we're having to get creative.

find a new way. but birthdays still happen. fridays still call for s'mores. you have to make magic, and you're figuring out how to do that. what you don't have to figure out is where to shop. because while you're getting creative, walmart is doing what we always do. keeping prices low for you every day. so you can save money and live better. ♪ 37 past the hour. there are reports the texas gunman posted private messages on facebook about his plans for violence minutes before opening fire. in a tweet yesterday, the facebook spokesman wrote, the messages were sent in a private chat and not discovered until after the attack occurred. one person the gunman reportedly revealed plans to was a

15-year-old girl in germany. according to screenshots provided by "the new york times." the teenager met the shooter earlier this month on a livestreaming app called yubo. in weeks that followed, he reportedly video called his new acquaintance while purchasing the gun used in the attack. later vaguely referred to doing something with the weapon. on tuesday morning, the gunman reportedly told the girl he had shot his grandmother and was on his way to attack an elementary school. she wasn't sure if he was serious. it was only after the news broke of the shooting that she contacted authorities. there's so many questions here. so many concerns about social media, which is another part of this. >> you know, mika, willie and i were talking off camera about young people who are disturbed.

>> yeah. >> like this young man in uvalde, texas. part of the difference might be 30, 40 years ago, there would be disturbed children that you would know in your neighborhood, sometimes in your classroom. but today, the menu of opportunity that's available to them -- >> all day. >> -- all and largely on this, a laptop. >> yes. >> the mean menu they have to tap into, to express the outrage of what's happening to them, it's like -- >> these are developing minds with access to things we never had access to at a young age. all day, all night long. people who work at tech companies don't let their kids have phones, don't let their kids on social media, even though they create these tools. coming up, we'll have a live report from uvalde as investigators work to find a

motive for tuesday's mass shooting. plus, new reporting on the reaction from former president trump when he heard his supporters chanting for mike pence to be hanged on january 6th. also ahead, oklahoma now has the country's most restrictive abortion law. it's a ban that comes with a nearly impossible timeline for women. we'll be back in a moment. t julius! you should really check in with your team on ringcentral. oh hi caesar. we were just talking about you. yeah, you should probably get out of here. ♪ ringcentral ♪

♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose.

finding the perfect developer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in prague between the ideal cup of coffee and a truly impressive synthesizer collection. and you can find her right now (lepsi?) on upwork.com (lepsi.) when the world is your workforce, finding the perfect project manager, designer, developer, or whomever you may need... tends to fall right into place. find top-rated talent who can start today on upwork.com

my approach is to have multiple options. the ar-15. >> the texas rampage coms ten days after another massacre at a supermarket in buffalo, new york. >> another mass shooting in america over the weekend. this time at a church in california. >> people say i won't support guns. they're dead wrong. boom. >> a shooting happened in downtown milwaukee and left 17

people hurt. >> deadly sacramento shooting left 6 dead. >> 13 people are wounded. >> a shooting at a car show in arkansas. >> space of just 16 hours on sunday, there were at least three mass shootings. >> twin mass shootings. >> mass shootings here in this country, 212 this year. >> we don't have a gun control problem! >> so one out of every tenth mass shooting in the country is in texas. >> second amendment right there. [ applause ] >> jimmy kimmel's show put together the illustration of the perverse gun fetish permeating republican politics. >> how is this? >> oh. >> uvalde, ar-15. buffalo, ar-15. boulder, ar-15. orlando, ar-15. parkland, ar-15.

las vegas, ar-15. aurora, colorado, ar-15. sandy hook, ar-15. waffle house, ar-15. san bernardino, ar-15. midland, odessa, ar-15. the synagogue, ar-15. sutherland springs, ar-15. tree of life synagogue, ar-15. willie, it's, i guess, if you're 18, what were you telling me about texas? >> anywhere in the country. 21 years old, you can buy a handgun. 18 to buy an ar-15. the original idea with long guns and rifles was 18, you go out hunting, all those things. ar-15 was looped into the long gun category. they are long guns. but the question is, why do you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun but only 18 to purchase

an ar-15? >> and your answer? >> well, my theory is that handguns are cheaper. >> money. >> you have to make things available that sell, right, joe? >> they make money. >> greed. >> they make the most money, ar-15s. >> if you have to have an id that shows your age to get a drink. >> a beer. >> robitussin, actually. >> even a robitussin. why is it that when something like this, that is worse than what police have in terms of destruction that it causes, that may have caused some police officers to think twice before they walked into a school. maybe not in this case. i'm just saying, when you hear an ar-15 going off, possibly a guy with two, what are you going to do with your little gun? >> it is a weapon designed for war. a weapon, as we keep saying, more deadly -- >> you don't need a background check? >> -- than the weapons that our

soldiers and marines carried in vietnam. let's bring in the host of msnbc's "politics nation," president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. rev, you were at the white house. tell us about it. >> well, yesterday was the second anniversary of the murder of george floyd. as everyone knows, the george floyd justice and policing act did not get to the senate. the republicans refused to deal with the qualified immunity, so we had been putting pressure -- that being the civil rights communities and the families -- on the president to do what he could by executive order. yesterday, he did. on the anniversary, he had the floyd family there, breonna taylor's mother there, and other families. he sign and executive order that says there must be a directory on policing where no policeman, his record is not public so you can't go from one county to another. we don't know if you had done

abuse. he did it on dealing with chokeholds and compression, which is what killed eric garner, what killed george floyd. compression, he did an executive order against it. and he did one in terms of cameras. body cameras, you can't turn them off. you must have them on. all this for federal officers. it is a very good step. he couldn't go into qualified immunity as president, but he did all that he could as president, in our view, even though we still say it's a great first step. the president went to the boundaries. but the senate still must make it law. we must remember that the emancipation proclamation was an executive order. people don't understand that. it was not the law. it was an executive order. it did not become illegal until we had the 13th amendment. and i feel that we should use what president biden signed yesterday to continue to put

pressure and make a midterm election issue out of, if the president can do the executive order, we need to george floyd bill on policing. >> something else dead in the . >> they hide behind the filibuster. >> you know, your friend, the president, i think he realizes now the senate is not the senate that he once knew, participated in. it's different. the funny thing is last night, early this morning, i had one of those foggy half asleep, half awake dreams. and this is the president of the united states, joseph r. biden, a man that wears his wounds well. he's a wounded person. he knows what it's like to be damaged. to suffer loss. in this dream that i had, he

decided as he has to go to texas to make two stops. one stop was going to be obviously uvalde. the second stop he went to houston in this dream. he went to the nra convention. told them, i haven't come for your guns. i've come for your conscience and i've come for common sense. because my instinct and perhaps it's yours, you spent time with him yesterday, he is incredibly angry about what has happened in the past month, past years with regard to weapons in this country. >> no. i did sense that there was a real anger. and we talked briefly here, a few of us after the ceremony. and i really felt that he is angry. he had just come back from asia. the week before he went to

buffalo, where i'm on my way now to do two more funerals, and now he's come -- >> you're going back to do funerals as we have another mass shooting in texas. another a.r. 15 shooting. and that is a funeral. so this is not academic. we're talking about real lives. and this shows about his pain going to anger. he, at the end of signing executive order, he had me and attorney ben crumb, george floyd's daughter who when he met with her and ways in the room when he was running for president and he quoted her often saying she said my dad is going to change the world. he gave her the pen he signed the executive order in her dad's name and let her sit in the president's -- that is relaid. the anger is under.

that he is looking at a victim's daughter and thinking between buffalo and going to texas. and these people are just making money off of tearing down this country. i think he is legitimately angry. he and i don't agree on some things. he drove the ball yesterday on policing which was not easy. because a lot of police would be against some of the things. certainly some of the things that we've been pushing for and that's in that executive order. i think he's very angry about this gun situation. and i don't know about your dream, but i think he certainly should appeal to the nra. i think people ought to deal with whoever shows up in the nra and this climate between buffalo and what's going on in texas to even have an nra convention is an insult to the intelligence of this country. >> it really is. and just -- reverend al sharpton, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you for everything you're doing. up next, we go live to uvalde, texas, where we're learning more about the 19 children and two teachers killed

in the shooting at robb elementary school. we'll also be joined by the uvalde justice of peace who had the horrific task of identifying the bodies of 21 victims. plus, are the quote conservative playbook for deflecting anger after mass shootings. new york magazine's jonathan tate joins us with the new article. "morning joe" is coming right back. article. "morning joe" is coming right back

bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight.

this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription.

two minutes before the top of the third hour of "morning joe." welcome back. thursday, may 26th. there are new questions about the texas school massacre this morning. about what took police so long to stop the shooter. was the school resource officer that confronted the killer armed? when will we get a complete time line of exactly how this attack was carried out. there were cameras in the school all capturing everything moment by moment. and in just a moment, we'll talk

to the texas official who had the agonizing job of having to identify the 21 victims killed in that attack. >> let's go right to uvalde, texas, where we're learning more about the 19 children and two teachers killed in their classroom on tuesday. nbc news correspondent morgan chesky is there with details. morgan? >> a tough morning for so many people here in in uvalde. to call this a close knit community is almost an understatement. generations of families have called this mexican-american ranching town home with friendships and family ties that go back for decades. and now those bonds more important than ever as this community grieves the loss of so many of their own.

>> reporter: overnight, this extremely tight knit community shattered by gun violence come together to pray. at a mass commemorating the 21 innocent lives lost. >> my heart just breaks for them, for everybody. we're such a small community that it really is like everybody knows everybody here. >> reporter: a separate vigil held at a local rodeo fair grounds. >> people of this community, we love each other. >> reporter: authorities identifying the 19 children and two beloved teachers killed. confirming all of them were gunned down in a single classroom. irma garcia and evam mireles teachers for five years. mireles' family sharing how she sacrificed herself using her body to shield and protect her young students. mireles' heart broken daughter writing on facebook, mom, you're a sear row. i keep telling myself this isn't

real. i just want to hear your voice. among the children whose promising lives were cut short, torres, a student and athlete never far from a softball field. jackie cazares, rejeilio torres and 10-year-old jose flores jr. his uncle writing, "i still can't believe this happened. my heart is broken." fourth grader santos knew a lot of the victims. her parents brought had in for counsel seg. she heard the shooting. >> what do you want people to know what you went through? >> it was very scary. we didn't know -- at first we didn't know what was happening. but then we realized it. and everyone started panicking. >> reporter: archbishop called the uvalde area home for years. and says this grieving community now needs the nation's prayers.

>> when you meet a family who is just lost a child, what do you even say? >> yes. you don't say almost anything. it's just to embrace them. >> and the road to recovery will no doubt be a long and painful one for this community. and it really does feel like in every direction you look, every person you talk to, there is a personal connection here. when i checked into my hotel, the woman at the front desk said her son was taught by one of the teachers who was killed at robb elementary school a few years ago. i think that's what makes it such a visceral pain that you feel in this community. >> morgan, thank you so much. >> joining us now, the justice of the peace from uvalde. they don't have a medical examiner, he was tasked with identifying the bodies of the 21 victims. mr. diaz, thank you for being with us this morning.

i certainly don't want to make you relive or describe anything you're not comfortable reliving or describing. i want to show a photograph that we have into us of you being embraced after you had identified the bodies of 19 kids and two teachers, sir. i'm so sorry you had to do that. tell me about the job. tell me about the nightmare you had to live through if you can. and something you never imagined you'd have to do as a justice of the peace. >> the photo was taken yesterday. i guess after tuesday, after winding down that evening and coming to work. and sitting here in my office again with my constable and my clerk and just reliving what was happening. what i had to do the night before. it just brought back emotions of what is going to continue more

than likely is going to be mixed emotions. it is something you don't ever forget. it was so horrific. >> we have been learning over the last couple days, such a close knit community. truly, you know, if not direct family, what feels like family. it seems throughout the town. how are you managing this? how are you processing this? how are you helping your neighbors through this. >> i can report that yesterday evening. nine of the victims were released back to uvalde to the funeral homes to be reunited with their families. it's the day, this morning that the remainder should be released to -- to their families.

i'm not sure what time that happens. but that's my priority now is to get the victims back to their families and to uvalde and the funeral homes so they can start making arrangements. but i know it's been tough for the families to not be -- to not be able to spend time with the victims immediately after it happened. but, of course, there's no -- there's an investigation. there is protocols that have to be followed. we have to identify everybody. everything has to happen. just to clarify. we have to make sure exactly what caused this to that individual needs to be documented. so, again, nine victims yesterday were released back. this morning, the rest of them should be released. that is my priority right now. that's what i'm working on. that's where i've been working since 2:00 a.m. on wednesday

morning. >> the daunting and emotional task of typing up 21 death certificates can you give us a sense of what keeps you going through this? >> that hasn't happened yet. that is going to happen in the future. this is going to continue. and in three to five days, i will receive an initial report from the medical examiner who is assisting us with this. we have a preliminary report. we'll work with the rangers to ensure that we, the report meets the world in agreement. and start having the report. we won't know right away when the report will be completed. again, this is a large task. again, when i start doing that, again, it's not going to be

something you want to do at one time. >> you live in a small, tight knit community. almost like everybody's family there. as you fwheent -- as you went into that classroom, you had to know children or family members of the children or friends of the children. walk us through how difficult that was for you. tell me what your community needs right now. >> you don't know all the victims when you walk into a scene. you can't really tell right off the bat who everybody is. of course, children don't have

driver's license or a name badge on them. but we were able to -- i was able to stop when i went in and there were pictures and the room belonged to irma garcia who i had gone to junior high and high school with. she was a year younger than me in school. i've known her now for 35 years. and we had known each other -- i know her husband joe. we worked at heb back in the mid 2000s together. we've seen them in town. i knew who this person was. the rest of the children, until we received photographs from the families and descriptions we were able to piece things together. really, really we started putting names with who they were. but until i got home and my daughter is a senior in high school and was set to graduate tomorrow, my son is in it eighth

grade and my wife were at home and they gave me a look like they understand what i just went through. what i just had to do and they start seeing messages on facebook coming through of families that were missing their children. you start to realize that you know more than half of all the parents or grandparents. we know of each other. i felt my responsibility.

>> thank you for taking time with us this morning with the unimaginable task and the work you have ahead of you and had to undertake inside that classroom. we so appreciate your time today. thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> joining us now, we have staff writer at the atlantic, david frum. david, in your new piece of "the atlantic" entitled "america's hands are full of blood," you write in part, "thoughts and prayers began as a cliche. it became a joke. it has pew trified to a national shame. if americans do turn heavenward and pain in grief for the lost children of uvalde, texas, they may hear the answer delivered in the bible through the words of isaiah. when you spread forth your hands i will hide any nines from you. when you make many prayers i will will not hear your hands

are full of blood. every other democracy makes some considerable effort to keep guns away from dangerous people. and dangerous people away from guns. for many years, especially since the massacre at connecticut sandy hook elementary school, almost a decade ago, the united states has put more and more guns into more and more hands. can it be different this time? whether any particular killer proves tore a racist, a jihadist, a sexually frustrated or randomly ma little nant carrier of sorrow and grief, can americans ever break the pattern of empty thoughts, meaningless prayers and more and worse bloodshed to follow"? that's the question. >> it is, david, inconceivable that every other western democracy has figured out a way

to keep guns, for the most part, out of the hands of the most mentally challenged or the most dangerous. >> and they try. >> and if you look at the numbers, they're so stark. the stark differences between us and britain. the stark differences between us and other countries across europe, australia. it is so stark. and yet, our leaders do not. >> i want to tell a story that didn't make national headlines. it was just a local story. happened the day before the uvalde massacre. this is what goes on every day in the country. two teenage brothers got into an argument over a t-shirt. one accused the other of taking his t-shirt without permission. the argument escalated, they got angrier and one of the teenagers ran out of the house and stole a pistol that belonged to their father. he was a law abiding and responsible gun owner. the father didn't secure the gun. the 19-year-old ran back to the

house and pointed it at his brother. he fired the gun but he missed his brother, instead he killed his 2-year-old niece. that was a local story. i collect those. they happen every day in this country. and while we're mesmerized by the horrible tragic story of the massacre of schoolchildren, we need to understand there is just a steady toll of accidents, suicides and all of it daily. that is the leading cause of death among young americans. no other country lives like that. >> say that again, david. >> guns are now the leading cause of death among young americans. not accidents, not cars, not swimming pools, not poisoning. guns. and most of them in these daily accidents of someone finding a gun that was not properly secured. the majority of american gun owners do not secure weapons. and there are 40 million more guns in this country than there were this time before the pandemic. >> david, where do we find the political will to respond to the reality that you just described?

>> i think the situation has become so much worse just over the past ten years. people look and say it -- nothing ever changes. things change a lot for the worse since sandy hook. when things change that dramatically, basically, sandy hook coincided with a good republican year in the legislature. it can be ruled back. you could go back to where you were in 2013. and at least get the guns out of the churches and out of the bars. there is something else i want to point to. the 40 million guns sold since the pandemic, a lot of them sold to people that never had a gun before. we need to appeal. that gun you brought home because you think it's keeping you safe, actually, it's most likely use is one 19-year-old is going to try to kill his brother and instead kill his niece. get that gun out of your house. a social and cultural change is where we begin. >> and also safety. saved if you have guns.

your dad. you have a lot of shot guns in your house and always locked up. they were always taken care of. when i grew up, i go to people's houses. if they had guns, they were always locked up. they were always kept away. you know what? later in my life, i actually -- i like going out on the water now. but i always tell people. i love the sea, i fear the sea. guns, you need to fear guns. even if you're a law-abiding citizen, david. fear the gun. know the gun. be comfortable with a gun. train the gun. that lock up the gun. that way -- if you have a gun to protect your home, then it will be protecting your home.

it won't be you accidentally shooting a 2-year-old niece or somebody using the gun to kill themselves. >> there is a detail in canadian gun law that i tell. for the american gun owner n. canada, if you want to have permission to own a gun, one of the things you have to do is supply a letter from your intimate partner saying that that person is not afraid of you having a weapon. if the police have any doubt about the sincerity of the letter, they interview the partner and say you are sure that you're comfortable with this? when you realize the shock in the united states when you p tell people that how much of this is about self protection? it's about a certain male idea of power. and if you have to ask your wife or girlfriend or partner for permission for the gun that, spoils the whole point of that.

that's why the guns are so dangerous. a million american women are survivors of gun violence in the home. the most president-elect use of a weapon is for a man to intimidate the women in his life. you see this like we showed before. weak, pastry. men. don't know if i even call them men. they shoot ar 15s and talk about ar 15s to show their masculinity. god. so embarrassing. i want to follow up what w. what david is saying. we're horrified, right? aat what happens in texas. we are horrified rightly by what happened in sandy hook. we are horrified rightly by what happened in buffalo. and yet in america, the last year recorded, 2018, that is the

last year we have the numbers, 109 americans are killed every single day by a gun. today in america -- by the way, that is 2018. we have so many more guns now. but it is most likely today that there will be almost ten times -- well, five times, six times, seven times as many people killed today by guns as were killed in that texas classroom. >> that's right. even here in new york this year we had several children killed by stray bullets. random bullets. i think this is a part of our culture for a very long time. and it is becoming more mainstream. i hate to talk about it that way. but the reality is there are

families in america of all backgrounds that have been experiencing losses from gun violence for years. i lost two cousins to gun violence. and i also have another cousin shot in the eye. and survived. he is with us and i love him very much. i saw him a couple weeks ago. so, you know, gun violence touched my family intimately. and the reality is it doesn't have to be this way. and so when i see these families, when i see the faces, i know my family's pain. and i just feel at this point rage. it's happening in america. >> it is commonplace. it's because of handguns. we're focusing on the ar 15 and rightly so. the vast, overwhelming majority

of gun deaths in this country, 45,000 plus of them in 2020 are for handguns. the conversation is about the ar 15 and what to do. keep them out of the hands of the people like the shooters we've seen in uvalde and buffalo. there is a much bigger problem in the country. >> absolutely. we saw governor abbott in his press conference do the distraction to talk about the strict gun laws in chicago and refer to the bidens knowing the guns are coming from indiana and other places. >> the iron pipeline. >> exactly. willie, i'm sitting here thinking, i'm thinking about what david said. you know, i -- my family was threatened by white supremacists. and i responded as a southern boy. i never had a gun. many i dad took me hunting. i had a big 20 gauge and bigger than me. i went hunting with shorts on. we knew it wasn't right that i wasn't fit for that practice. but when i felt threatened, when

they were calling my house every day at 3:00 in the morning, i went out and bought a gun. it sits in my drawer right now. i have to get rid of that gun. i do. i understand my own fear. joe, i hear you, you're right. but for me and my gut right now, i think i have to get it out of my house. >> here's the thing, jonathan. here's the thing. gun shop owners, people that own guns, people that had guns their whole life, they would say if you're not comfortable with a gun, if you haven't trained with that gun, if you don't know that gun, if you haven't gone to the range over and over again, then, yeah, get it out of your house. get it out of request you are house.

because nothing good comes from it. >> we hear stories all the time about accidents, too, where a kid will find the father's gun, mother's gun and play it with. shoot themselves. or shoot another sibling. i did not grow up around guns. no one in my family has guns. certainly they make me deeply uncomfortable. i understand that there are reasons to have them. i understand that people can own them and do it responsibly. the nra is not the force it was a few years ago. it has taken a real financial hit. they've not been a major political spender in a couple of cycles. why? what is the theory as to why they still have so much power? this could be a moment you step away. >> we talk about negative partisanship which dominates politics now. this is negative partisanship inside the republican party. joe scarborough is against blah,

blah, blah. somehow making you sound like oh, nancy pelosi's best friend. they're not the force. i will tell you, you can stand up to the nra. en that are members. i saw members who did it. and see, here's the thing. they raise a lot of hell. i know there are a lot of one issue voters on guns. they're the minority. >> yeah. >> you get everything else. i always found out, you know, you get most of the things right. or you're like, for me, i was talking about budget. i always talk about balanced budgets. i know that is very exciting. fiscal joe. but, you know, i kept driving it home.

driving it home. if you want to go, you know, off the reservation on one issue or another, for me it was like environmentalism and human rights. after sandy hook, i talked to republican legislators that voted for the most sweeping gun control legislation in america. and they were really could be servetive. i asked them how they did it. one guy said it was great. he said you get in a group of people and they'll shut you down. he said so then i tried to get with ten people. they shot you down. then i said wait a second. i'm doing this wrong. i need them four at a tichlt you bring four in. you have a conversation. he said that's what he did. four by four by four. and we had real conversations. no shouting matches.

and they understood. they didn't agree but they understood why i did what i did. and so i don't think -- everybody loves to talk about the nra. they don't think it's the nra's power, their ability to go out and project, you know, say so and so sold them guns. yeah, it's an irritant. but any good politician can beat them. and any republican -- it's just fear. they're cowards. it's like they were cowards in at the face of donald trump. by the way, we haven't talked about this in a couple of days. you can stand up to donald trump. you don't have to be a coward. you can even tape record donald trump. turn it over to the da! have donald trump in front of the grand jury possibly. and still over 50% in your republican primary statewide and the deep south. we haven't talked about brad

rathlisberger. won going away. was not close. everybody said oh, he stood up to him, dead man walking. everybody said that kemp, dead man walking. donald trump, he was trump's number one target. but thighs guys for some reason on this issue think they did not fear donald trump. and what happened, willie? you know what? what happened was people actually said, you know what? i voted for donald trump. but that guy did what he believed was the right thing to do. i'm going to vote for him. >> and people in the state of georgia agreed with him. it remains to be seen if that template works in other states. we'll see. >> let's bring in writer for the new york magazine, latest article for the magazine is "the conservative playbook for deflecting anger after mass shootings." in it, jonathan writes, in part,

"these responses tend to follow a script which has been on display in the wake of the most recent mass murder at an elementary school in uvalde, texas. one element of the response is to insist the events are nonpolitical. and to any efforts to use them to highlight the need for a policy response is a breach of decorum. a second method is make the case for futility. insisting that not every proposed gun control measure would end every instance of gun violence. the final step is to locate solutions outside of gun control. and blame democrats for opposing them. and here we have the ultimate, jonathan, in hypocrisy. we have a governor who slashed mental health funding using mental health as his issue to avoid guns. tell us more about your article. >> yeah. that's a great point on mental

health. mental health is a policy response that conservatives become very enthusiastic about in the wake of every mass murder and then lose all -- so its only purpose is to serve as a distraction. the larger point i'm trying to make in this article is that they're aware that large levels of gun violence are an inevitable cost of the republican party's position on guns. the united states has uniquely lax gun safety laws and ownership laws compared to our nations and uniquely high levels of gun violence. what they understand is there is no way around that problem. they just -- that's just the cost of doing business and having their solution. so this just becomes something they have to deal with in the wake of mass shootings.

it's not political. you can't talk about it or go through the sort of workings to just get through with until it is out of the headlines. >> yeah. david frum, again, there are people that said bet yoe was classless. >> they call him a sick son of a bitch. it is a distraction game. also, they want you to believe that there is nothing we can ever -- that gun law wouldn't have done. it's the same script every time. that gun law would not have done anything to stop that murder. this gun law would not have gotten anything to stop this mass shooting. of course, half the time they're just lying. i can name several gun laws that would stop what happened in texas. it is always that. it's we can't do anything about

it. we just have to flood the streets with more guns. by the way, look over there. it is some other issue. >> david? >> one of the signs that the nra is not the force that it used to be is this debate is about to move away from democratic politics. there is a case pending now that will be laid down in the next couple of days, maybe the next couple of weeks before wr the supreme court is about to tell states if a democratically -- if they pass restrictions on guns, they can't have them. the supreme court is going to strike down a new york state law that restricts conceal carry and add conceal carry to the list of federal constitutional rights. make national. the low customer of this debate is shifting. away from congress to state governments highly gerrymandered. that is a sign that they know the weakness. it is not sure it can count on congress forever. it can count on an unfairly balanced state legislature and

count on court division that ever more removes ever further from republican opinion. watch for that new york case. they're about to constitutionalize it across the land. >> you say part of that playbook for republicans includes riding out the anger and emotion that most americans feel in the immediate aftermath of the horrors that we're watching right now. and to survive it in some ways and get some moderate republicans onboard with a watered down version so they can say we've done something. i will not say is this time zmifrn we said it so many times. do you see any different dynamics at play here that leads you to think maybe there will be some legislation that comes out of this? in the short run, it's possible. there is partisan discussions. i don't want to make overly confident political predictions.

they're running in the opposite direction in sandy hook. they discovered that public or their voters can power almost any levels of horror. there are more guns and more gun ownership as in response to these crisis. so in the short run, they seem to be getting worse although, you know in, the long run, it may change. >> all right. new york magazine's jonathan chate and david frum, thank you. thank you for being with us here this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe," more from the striking moment when beto o'rourke interrupted greg abbott's news conference about the texas shooting. he was criticized by the people on stage for bringing up the subject that they just simplien

-- simply not talk b. >> responsibility is on their shoulders. >> in our fourth hour, we're joined by a mother that knows the unspeakable pain of losing a child. her son never came home after sandy hook. and she has a message for the parents who lost children in uvalde. also ahead, another jar headline stemming from the investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol. to quote "politico," trump expressed support for hanging mike pence. we'll talk to a member of that committee when republican congressman adam kinsinger joins the news. kinsinger joins the news right now, we're all feelin' the squeeze. we're having to get creative. find a new way. but birthdays still happen. fridays still call for s'mores.

you have to make magic, and you're figuring out how to do that. what you don't have to figure out is where to shop. because while you're getting creative, walmart is doing what we always do. keeping prices low for you every day. so you can save money and live better. ♪ my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. finding the perfect designer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in austin between a dog named klaus and her favorite shade of green.

it's actually salem clover. and you can find her right now on upwork.com when the world is your workforce, finding the perfect project manager, designer, developer, or whomever you may need... tends to fall right into place. find top-rated talent who can start today on upwork.com my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... ...the burning, the itching. the stinging. my skin was no longer mine. emerge tremfyant®. with tremfya®, most people saw 90% clearer skin at 16 weeks. the majority of people saw 90% clearer skin even at 5 years. tremfya® is the first medication of its kind also approved for adults with active psoriatic arthritis... ...and it's 6 doses a year after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. emerge tremfyant®.

with tremfya®... ask your doctor about tremfya® today. you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need? like how i customized this scarf? check out this backpack i made for marco. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] this? this is supersonic wifi from xfinity. it's fast. like, ready-for- dimajor-gig-speeds fast.99% of places in the u.s. like riding-a-cheetah fast. isn't that right, girl? whoa!

it can connect hundreds of devices at once. [ in unison ] that's powerful. couldn't have said it better myself. and with three times the bandwidth, the gaming never has to end. slaying is our business. and business is good. unbeatable internet from xfinity. made to do anything so you can do anything. when it comes to tech, everyone wants the next best thing. now with xfi complete from xfinity, you can get updated wifi technology with the new tech upgrade program. plus, protection from cyber threats at home and now on the go. so staying up to date is easier than ever. you look great by the way. right? unbeatable internet. made to do anything so you can do anything. only xfinity will upgrade your tech after 3 years for a more reliable connection. get that and more with xfi complete. upgrade today.

the senseless massacre in an elementary school, little children and their teachers eva and irma, let us pray that god cradles the broken families in the palm of his hand. but let us also pray to use the will and courage god gives to each of us to act united with common sense to protect our children. >> wow. the past 24 hours, heartwrenching. >> they really have been. and we've all been hearing from our friends and i know everybody's been hearing from loved ones just shock. i got a note this morning from a friend in mississippi. his pastor wrote the congregation yesterday and said, as i write the words, the sun is rising on may 25th, 2022. another day of mourning in america after another mass shooting at another elementary

school. as we pray yet again for those whose lives have been torn asunday better i ai troubled soul wielding a deadly weapon, it seems important and necessary to me to say as a christian pastor that we try to find reasonable ways to reduce gun violence and that is not political. it is moral. the church needs to have a moral compass which can tell the difference that which is political partisan and that which is moral. otherwise, our fear of being political may at times make us fall silent concerning matters which we should not be silent. as martin luther king jr. once wisely said, the day we fall silent about the things that matter is the day our life begins to end. and that's chuck poole, baptist preacher. the preacher is right, of course, standing by and doing nothing after little children

are slaughtered in classrooms with weapons of war that are designed to be the most effective means of reducing flesh to a bloody mush, that is not a political failing. that is a moral failing. we need to protect little children in school yards from assassination. we need to protect grandmother's shopping for their children and their family in grocery stores. from having a bullet tear through the brain. we have an urgent need to protect christians and churches, jews and synagogues, muslims and their mosques. and to protect country music fans singing along to their favorite songs from being murdered in a bloody rampage. by, again, weapons of war. saving the lives of these americans, that's not a political necessity. that is a moral necessity.

and doing nothing is a sin. let me say it again. doing nothing to stop this on going carnage is a sin. telling others to shut their mouths while the slaughter continues to not talk about it. you can't talk about it. do not talk about it. that would be political. well, that's evil. and that evil cannot be allowed to prevail in press conferences in texas and state house as cross the south and it cannot be allowed to fester any longer at the united states senate. the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. we heard that our whole lives. well, it's time for senators to do something, to pass universal background checks. to take at least a small step

just the first step in a 1,000 mile journey to begin to stop the slaughter of babies and putting the protection of life over the twisted fever dreams of a paranoid minority that is dominating our political process. dominating our schools, dominating our churches. dominating our grocery stores, dominating our lives. it's time to make sure that our kids can walk into their classrooms to learn. and be to able to live to tell their parents about it. t it

greg abbott was interrupted by democratic challenger in the race for governor beto o'rourke. much the former congressman was in the crowd. he began to wrap up the opening remarks, a walk to the foot of stage and began to address the governor. governor >> i can't believe you're doing this to make a political issue. >> o'rourke was escorted out the news conference but continued to

speak to reporters outside. >> do you want a solution? stop selling ar 15s in the state of texas. have universal background checks. red flag laws or extreme risk protection orders which stop shooting before it happens. you want a solution? safe storage laws. those are four solutions brought up by the people of texas. each one of those has broad bipartisan support right now. we can get that done. if it we had a governor who cared more about the people of texas than he does his own political career or his unity to the nra. if you need any proof of that, check the schedule for the nra's convention this friday right here in the state of texas. >> o'rourke called on the governor to withdraw from the national rival association's convention this weekend in houston, tweeting, "urge them to hold it anywhere but texas." >> it really is unbelievable. you know, guys on stage calling him a sick son of a bitch for actually bringing up guns? >> the one thing that was not brought up at the press

conference. >> because, again, look over there. look over there. it's always something else. mental health. i haven't seen governor abbott funding mental health and taxes. everybody says, wow, he is really -- no. it's just an excuse today to make people forget about the slaughter. another slaughter. yet another slaughter in abbott's state. and you talk about a sick son of a bitch, the guy called him a sick son of a bitch. the sick son of a bitches are the ones up on that stage that keep the freaks, the freaks on that stage that keep passing gun legislation that allows 18-year-olds to go get weapons of war and gun down little children. everything that beto said no those reporters is supported by the overwhelming majority of

americans. and that's what's really sick. >> and how could they not understand? >> abbott doesn't want to talk about it. marco rubio doesn't want to talk about it. says they don't want to talk about china. they don't want to talk about guns. you know what? there is no moral no more defense to this. there is no political defense. to continue to stand in the way which republicans did again yesterday, stand in the way of legislation that eight out of ten americans support. maybe nine out of ten americans support it. how many americans do you think would support stopping an 18-year-old who can't buy a beer, who can't -- >> not mature enough. can't make good decision. >> who can't rent a car from avis, to go out and get a gun that is more deadly than the guns we gave our troops in vietnam. i think that is a majority position just like the

background checks, just like everything else, mika, that governor abbott, that senator rubio, that every one of those people up on the stage calling beto a son of a bitch for talking about this. >> it was one big massive exercise in avoidance and it was painful to watch and i jumped out of my seat watching the television. so i don't blame anyone else for getting emotional. >> coming up, we get angry, we demand action, we don't get it. they wait it out. we go back to the lives that we should rightfully be able to go back to. but you know who doesn't forget it, the parents of the children at sandy hook and margory stoneman douglas high school and now robb elementary school. they won't forget it. >> jimmy kimmel invoking the mass shooting at sandy hook for gun safety reform.

we'll talk to dawn hawkly and her message to the families in texas and to america's leaders in washington is next on "morning joe." and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

- [narrator] it's a mixed up world. and the way we work looks a little different. but whether you embrace the new normal or just want to get back to the routines that feel right, x-chair continues to be at the forefront of change, which is why we've launched the all new x-chair with elemax. elemax combines gentle body temperature regulation with stress melting massage to increase your comfort working from home or at the office. feel more refreshed in seconds with dual fans that actively deliver a clean air flow or you can wrap your back in the soothing warmth of heat therapy and access four combinations of massage for deep relief from tension. our patented dynamic variable lumbar support and scifloat infinite recline technology remain unchanged. order an x-chair with elemax today. use code tv and get $50 off plus a free foot rest. hey, change happened and we've made it a good thing with all new elemax from x-chair.

now the future feels better than ever before. order x-chair with elemax today. use code tv and get $50 off plus a free foot rest. this is the sound of nature breathing. and this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. fasenra is designed to target and remove them. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection

or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. this is the sound of fasenra. ask your doctor about fasenra.

as a nation, i think we all must be there for them. everyone. and we must ask when in god's name will we do what needs to be done to if not completely stop fundamentally change the amount of the carnage that goes on in this country. i'm just sick and tired of what is going on and continues to go on. >> the idea that an 18-year-old could walk into a store and buy weapons of war designed and marketed to kill is, i think, just wrong. just violates common sense. even the manufacturer, the inventor of that weapon thought that as well.

you know, where is the backbone? where is the courage? to stand up to a very powerful lobby. and we begin the fourth hour of "morning joe" with a live look at the white house where the flag is at half-staff this morning. president biden speaking yesterday at the white house. welcome back. >> and here is the new york post. the children lost. talking about 19 children massacred and in one classroom with a weapon of war. the daily news talks about the texas grade school slaughter. heroes, pain, rage. talking about brave teachers, just like the brave teachers at sandy hook doing what they could to protect their children in the

face of, again, a weapon more powerful than weapons we gave to our soldiers and marines in vietnam and targeting these children. the weapons of war. which politicians just refuse, politicians just refuse to pass any meaningful safeguards to protect our children. to protect our neighbors. to protect fellow americans. >> and this morning we're learning new details and asking more questions about tuesday's shooting. the massacre at robb elementary school in uvalde, texas. let's go right to tom yamas live. what is the latest. >> reporter: good morning to you. this community as you just mentioned still very much in shock. they are still mourning all of the young lives that were lost.

but there are some tough questions being asked this morning, namely the school district here doubled the security budget, why didn't that guard that was here who was armed stop the shooter. why were the doors not locked and why did it take police so long to take down the gunman? could more lives have been saved? this morning investigators piecing together what unfolded inside of robb elementary during that terrible massacre. video emerging ma appears to show desperate parents outside of the school. the a.p. reporting that one parent javier gas whose daughter was killed was upset police were not moving more quickly. telling the a.p., of the authorities that they were unprepared. he confirmed the statements to nbc news. different video appearing to show parents frustrated with police outside of the school.

authorities have not yet offered a firm timeline of the events. the department of public safety director answering a question wednesday about how long the suspect, 18-year-old salvador ramos was the promises before law enforcement killed him. >> i can't -- it is within 40 minutes, an hour. i don't want you to give you a particular time line. but bottom line is that law enforcement was there and they did engage immediately. >> reporter: and as more video emerges. a law enforcement source telling nbc news this brief clip shows the gunman running into the school dressed all in black, long gunnin hand. inside he was confronted by an armed school resource officer and kept going and made his way inside. that is when ramos locked himself in a classroom and began his rampage. border patrol officers eventually opened the door and exchanged gunfire with ramos,