jansing reports." with all your experience reporting overseas and here at home, i can't think of a more important time for you to be taking over. >> that's kind of you, andrea. thank you so much. great to have you in studio good to see you. good afternoon. i'm chris jansing. today we have new information about what happened during the second deadliest school shooting in history. we have new video, new interviews and we also have a lot of new unanswered questions. this hour we're going to be asking experts and people on the scene what exactly happened. let's start with the facts. the school district doubled its security budget in recent years. the school was supposed to be locked, and it did have a resource officer on scene. then there are the questions. perhaps the biggest, what do we do about it? we now know from a brand new poll almost nine of ten americans agree on one key change to our laws. so where is congress?

what, if anything, will they do? will anything actually change in this moment as we've asked every single time before. the parents of these 19 children, the loved ones of all 21 deserve answers to these questions and they deserve action. we're talking about people like stephen garcia and jennifer lugo. their daughter ellie was killed in gold blood, a little girl so excited about the pool party she was going to have for her tenth birthday next week. >> sweetest girl you've ever had the chance to meet. told her we were going to have a party and her face just lit up. that was the last time i saw her. i won't see my daughter again. >> hear with me from uvalde, texas is jose diaz-balart and

gabe gutierrez. gabe, what do we know now that we didn't know yesterday or when we woke up this morning? >> reporter: chris, good afternoon, yes. the key question, how did the initial officers at the scene engage, in their words, with this gunman. we now know the texas department of public safety now says no gunfire was exchanged with the gunman as he was entering the school. that differs from the initial account that there was an exchange of gunfire back then. another key question now, chris, is what the director of the texas department of public safety said yesterday, upwards of 40 minutes, potentially up to an hour went by before the rest of the law enforcement officers, tactical teams from customs and border protection went inside the school and took the gunman down. we're hearing those harrowing stories about those children inside that classroom. 19 children and two teachers.

now, new video is emerging as well from those moments where parents were outside this school and it was all captured on cell phone video, basically pleading with those officers, yelling at them to go inside. so that is fueling the anger and frustration among some of the parents of the children of this school. certainly we received new information over the last 48 hours since the initial reports of this rampage unfolded. why weren't officers inside that school quickly? of course, the texas department of public safety says these officers did everything they could. they're promising a complete investigation. this is still early on in that investigation. here in uvalde many parents today are asking those questions and pressing for answers after what is an unspeakable tragedy, chris. of course, we've been seeing friends, family and neighbors

here paying their respects, laying flowers right here at the school throughout the morning. chris. >> jose, anger, frustration, obviously heartbreak. you were just looking at the paper. we can show it to people, the local paper. it was stark to see the cover of that paper in all black. when you went on the air three hours ago, i was watching you. there was a group of residents who seem to be in a circle praying near the front of the school. tell our viewers about this community, jose, how it's even possible to process what has happened there. >> reporter: i think this really encapsulates what a lot of people are seeing right now, just darkness and uncertainty and tears. yes, there are some that are very, very upset. i just spoke with a lady who was here -- as we see more families

come -- it's a non-stop movement of people that come with a crown of flowers, other people that are coming through. let's let her pass. they leave flowers and stuffed teddy bears and bears and balloons. chris, there are so many questions, but right now, just today we're told by authorities that some of the bodies that were removed from here are today going to start being returned to their family members. this is such a -- an open wound, chris, that so many people are feeling right now. just last night i spoke with isaiah rodriguez, 18 years old. he went to this school. his sister alexandra was at that school two days ago. she's in fourth grade.

she lost her life. she wanted to be a baseball player, a softball player and a lawyer like her mom. i'm certain she would do all of those things brilliantly. isaiah wants to be an nba player. just yesterday they still didn't have her body. they didn't have anything. they had that empty bed that she last used two days ago, and he still is having a difficult time recognizing that this is real. >> my mind is just blank right now. i haven't slept, haven't ate. it's just too much, thinking about it. i can't process it yet. it feels like a bad dream. woke up this morning and it was real. >> reporter: these bad dreams are happening throughout this

community 21 times. i was just thinking a little while ago, chris, about the process now for those parents of receiving the remains of their children and having to bury them. the nightmare of any parent is the thought of having to bury your children. and then the other two families of teachers lost. how are they going to afford that? how is this process going to work? those questions are starting in some people's minds. chris, this still remains for the most part a picture of darkness for so many families here. >> how could it not be? jose, gabe, thank you for your reporting. joining me democratic congresswoman robin kelly from illinois, vice chair of the gun violence prevention task force. congresswoman, thank you for

joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> heartbroken, right? people from all over the country bursting into tears when they look at the faces of these children whose futures were lost. you're on this task force in congress. what is congress going to do about it? >> we've already done in the house, we passed two pieces of legislation t background check and the bill that closes background check loopholes. we did meet last night and we're looking at more bills to bring forward. we discussed red flag law, laws banning assault weapons. it was just a real roundtable of members of that committee. i have legislation that i want to see put forward on straw purchasing and trafficking. you heard the governor of texas talk about chicago a lot. what he didn't talk about is over 60% of our crime guns are not from the city of chicago. they're from out of state. so we need federal trafficking

and straw purchasing laws to deal with the issues they face. >> not to minimize what is being done in the house. as you know, there are on going conversations led by fellow democrat chris murphy who is trying to see what is possible here. i know you talked to people. i'm sure you're in touch with folks on the senate side as well. give me a reality check here from your perspective as someone who is deeply involved in this issue. is anything going to get done this time? >> i hope so. that's all i can say. >> we always say that, though. we always say that, congresswoman, and i know the frustration that's out there. you hear it from your constituents. >> what i'm saying -- i can't make a person vote in a certain way. we need the public's help from those states contacting those senators saying what they want to see. the majority of americans want

background checks. the majority of americans want red flag laws. the majority of americans want us to invest in communities and kids so things like this don't happen. we have the public on our side, but the public has to rise up, also, and contact their senators and tell them what they want to see or they will not vote for them. >> there is, in fact, new polling. we'll show it a little bit from now. but you're right. it's overwhelming, the support for the things you're talking about. i want to go back to something you just said. you know the argument from republicans including the governor of texas who slammed gun laws in chicago saying tough laws there, in los angeles, in new york. he says there are more people who are shot every weekend in chicago than there are in schools in texas. what do you say to that on the right that tough gun laws don't work? >> what i just said, we need federal trafficking laws. we need federal straw purchasing

laws. with need the leader of the atf to be put in place. that's why. it's not that our gun laws aren't working. it's just that our guns are coming from other places. we need federal legislation. it just can't be state by state. even though i'm proud of my state and what the governor signed into law dealing with ghost guns. we have so many guns, over 60% trafficked into chicago. that's the problem. i know new york faces the same thing. i'm sure l.a. does, also. >> that's just an excuse. he's made it easier to own guns in texas. he should be ashamed. >> is there anything you've seen that gives you hope that this time will be different, congresswoman? >> just what you said about the public, that more and more the public agrees on common sense gun safety. we're not trying to take anyone's gun away if you have it legally and not trying to hurt

yourself or anybody else. >> congresswoman kelly, we thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today. thank you. congresswoman kelly one of 435 members of the house. then there's 100 members of the senate, which is where we move our focus next. that new poll shows an overwhelming majority of americans want changes to our gun laws. so is there any optimism in the senate that something will get done? how far is the biden administration willing to go if they don't? that's next. >> we are never, ever going to give up until we make our schools, we make our shopping malls, we make the streets of this country a safe place to live and work. >> this is not normal, and i think we need to be open to wherever the evidence leads us. s

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he prosecuted zero fentanyl drug dealing cases, even though nearly 500 people have died of overdoses. i'm voting yes on h to recall chesa boudin now. we can't wait one more day when people are dying on our streets. right now congress has yet again a choice following a mass shooting, a choice that will tell you whether they believe guns are the problem or a solution. senate majority leader chuck schumer is holding off on forcing a vote on background check bills that the house has already passed, but are guaranteed to fail in the senate because he's giving connecticut senator chris murphy ten days to extend an olive branch to republicans and to look for a bipartisan solution. it's clear in a brand new poll taken just a day after tuesday's shooting that there is overwhelming agreement among

americans that something should be done. politico and morning consult talked to nearly 2,000 registered voters on background checks for all gun sales. 88% strongly or somewhat support that. 88%. on banning assault-style weapons, 67% support it. two-thirds. on preventing firearm sales to people reported as dangerous, 84% support it. just 9% oppose. nbc congressional correspondent garrett haake spoke to republican congressman tony gonzalez who represents u val dee. i want you to listen to how easy it is for an 18-year-old to buy an assault rifle in texas. >> you can't buy a beer when you're 18 years old. why do you need to be able to buy an assault rifle? >> we have to be unified. >> why does an 18-year-old in texas need to be able to buy an

assault rifle? >> the reality is this isn't a new topic. there's been a lot of legislation that's been out there. >> you haven't answered my question though. why does an 18-year-old need an ar-15 in the state of texas? >> this is how the legislative process works, congress determines the laws. right now we have a congress that won't talk to one another. there's so much rhetoric and hate. >> i want to bring in ego volsky and ben rhodes former national security adviser for the obama administration and msnbc political contributor. good to see you both. ben, we've been here so many times before. no significant changes. my question to you is can this time be different? >> not with the attitude we saw in that clip you just showed, the disregard -- why does an

18-year-old in the state of texas need two ar-15s and an enormous amount of ammunition? they don't. we know what the solutions are. after sandy hook, what we did is we went through a process where -- we did what the congressman called for, by the way, compromise, discussion. we start from a premise in the democratic party and the obama administration after sandy hook that you would want to ban assault-style weapons. you don't need ar-15s in this country. the compromise position hammered out between republicans and democrats was background checks. that was the thing we could agree on because it doesn't take away guns from people or restrict the sale of guns. i'm not happy with that. that would not be enough to stop the kinds of things we're talking about. but that was where we'll begin. the fact we're sitting there almost a decade after sandy hook

and we haven't seen the background checks when 90% of americans support it, it shows the absurdity of where we're stuck here. >> that doesn't get us anywhere where we need to be. you should not be able to purchase ar-15 weapons in this country. as long as that's the case, people are going to continue to be killed by those weapons, as has been the case in most deadly mass shootings in recent years. i hope we start with the lowest-hanging fruit where politically the case is going to have to be made that this is a top priority issue for politicians willing to embrace it at the congressional level and state and local level. >> igor, i want you to pick up on that. can i say the polling numbers are unequivocal evidence of the willing of the american people. here is what we just heard from senator chris murphy on that issue which is most strongly

supported in this poll and that is background checks. >> won't be everything i want. won't be universal background checks, a ban on assault weapons. maybe it's expansion on background checks, red flag laws. maybe adjusting the age you can purchase weapons. if it saves lives, it's good enough for me. >> if it saves lives, is that a start, and do you believe something can get done? >> saving lives is obviously our goal here. what's really shocked me first after the buffalo shooting and now after the shooting in texas is the fact that this president after both of these tragedies absolutely refuses to lay out a clear plan and vision forward. there's tangible things he can do that aren't just bringing senators together, stakeholders together to the white house and staying in d.c., by the way, and not going on vacation until they start making some progress. for instance, he with the stroke of a pen can open a white house

office of gun violence prevention which survivors, chris, in this country have been asking for for over a year. he's refused to put together an office that can drive this issue all across the country. look, i don't want to do just another exercise where we have ten days and maybe we'll find magical compromise or maybe not. i want the president of the united states who ran on one of the broadest gun violence prevention platforms in history to actually fight, actively fight for change and not to passively call for action from congress. he has a role to play. he can step up and lead. and i fear that after both of these shootings, chris, he's failed us. >> tell us specifically, more specifically on how you think he can lead. i don't think there's any doubt out there about how joe biden feels about this. he was certainly involved in trying to push what ultimately,

as ben said, did not go through during the obama administration, specifically what do you think he could do that would be a game-changer? is there anything that's a game-changer for republicans who seem entrenched in the idea that guns are part of the solution? >> chris, we know how he feels. we don't know what he's going to do. so what i'm asking him to do is to open for the first time a white house office of gun violence prevention, actually staff it up. so we can drive this issue across government and develop a strategy, number one. number two, i'm asking him to bring stakeholders into the white house to begin these negotiations in a serious way. i'm asking him, the vice president and his cabinet to crisscross the country visiting impacted communities to sell them on this plan. and then i'm asking him to establish a timeline and a timetable for a vote. that vote may ultimately fail for the structural reasons that we all know about.

at least he will be caught trying. i bet in 2022 voters will reward him for that. and then he will have larger majorities in order to continue to make progress. look, he and chuck schumer can alone break this cycle. a mass shooting happens, we talk about it for 24 hours and then nothing. >> let me give you an example of exactly what democrats joe biden, chuck schumer are up against. one side of the dividing line in the gun debate is the argument that guns are part of the solution. even now talking about arming teachers. let me play some of what texas governor abbott says about the rise in school shootings. >> what i do know in talking to the leaders here as well as leaders in other locations

around the state, and that is one thing that has changed is the status of mental health issue in our countries. >> it's not a gun issue. it's a mental health issue. -- >> i think it's garbage, complete gaslighting. he walks into a school and kills a bunch of people with ar-15s. we hear the solution, the next two or three days from republicans is a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. now we've had a couple mass shootings in a row in which the presence of somebody with a gun there to protect people did

nothing to stop somebody from killing a bunch of people with an ar-15. now they're talking about mental health. they're saying a bunch of words to get them to the nra conference. they don't care about mental health. is he making big proposals to fund dramatic increases in mental health care? he's not going to do that. this is not about his honest position. this is about him avoiding accountability for the fact that in his state an 18-year-old can walk into a state, buy two ar-15s, walk into a school and kill these kids. it's the ar-15 that is making these shootings so deadly. so, yes, i do think -- look, i do think that ultimately a president could do all the things that were discussed. if you don't have legislative action, we're not going to solve the problem. what i do think needs to change is the mentality from the president on down that this is

something we tend to talk about after a tragedy or right before an election. it's not liken grained in the agenda that is run on in the same way that health care is in the democratic party or increasingly climate change is. i think increasingly we have to make this a top priority issue for voters. that's the only way politicians then feel like they're going to be held accountable to actually follow through on the promises that they make. i think completely mainstreaming this issue from the top down, all the way down in the democratic party -- by the way, i hope the republicans will join. i don't want this to be a partisan issue. the truth is right now the republican party is afraid of their primary electors. the polls show that most americans including most republicans support things like universal background checks. it's because republican politicians are afraid of the intensity of their primary electorate, which is a much smaller electorate. the only way this will change,

they're more scared of losing elections for not acting on gun safety than they are scared of their own voters. that requires i think a sustained focus out of the democratic party. >> ben, igor, important conversation. thank you for being with us today. coming up, what we still know, what we need to know about the timeline of this massacre and critically, could more have been done to stop the shooter in those minutes. you're watching chris jansing reports on msnbc. g reports on msnbc -seriously? -denied. can we go back to meeting at the rec center? the commute here is brutal. denied. how do we feel about getting a quote to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? should flo stop asking the same question every time? -approved! -[ altered voice ] denied! [ normal voice ] whoa. miss allen over there isn't checking lesson plans. she's getting graded

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or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything ♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. we want to start with some video. take a look on your screen right now. i shows the moment the gunman ran into robb elementary school. one law enforcement source told nbc news. the exact timeline is not clear. here is what we know according to authorities. the gunman was confronted by an armed school resource officer but kept going and made his way into the school. he locked himself into a single classroom and that's where the entire attack, the murder of 21 innocents would unfold. border patrol eventually got the door open but not without help from a member of the school staff. how long the shooter was on school property before law

enforcement stopped him is not entirely clear. here is the public safety director. >> it's going to be within a minute -- within 40 minutes, like an hour. i don't want to give a particular timeline. the bottom line is law enforcement was there. they did engage immediately. >> how ever long it was during that time, video appears to show parents pleading with law enforcement officers to enter the school. nbc news has not confirmed at precisely what point this occurred or what actions law enforcement officers might have already taken by that time. nbc news reached out to texas dps. they previously said the gunman was engaged immediately and two officers were wounded. the central question remains, could more have been done to save lives. i want to bring in tom winter here onset. we heard from gabe, they're very

upset. we want to know why it took so long. >> we don't know a lot. >> should we know? >> i think 48 hours after a shooting is good enough time for us to have preliminary details. i think that's concerning is some of the details here appear to have changed. he had body armor, didn't have body armor. some of that was said within the first six to 12 hours. it's understandable details could change. we're at the point of the specifics of who confronted whom and where and what happened and who shot at whom and where and what happened, those details we should know. authorities in texas say they do have video they believe exists at the school. >> so there were cameras. >> that's what they said previously. i think the big question is what do those show? they should have a time stamp on them, a running time code that

should be able to tell them a specific sequence of events, a detailed timeline to the second. that would be unfair and unreasonable to ask of anybody. but a general sense of what happened i think we're probably a little overdue for it. it's possible to get a press conference within the next 30 minutes that might start to detail some of those answers. we're still trying to check on that and see. that would be a law enforcement press conference, but there are some key questions that we still have. of course, as we all know, what is the situation inside the school? was this door locked from the standpoint that nobody could open it? was it a hardened door, meaning it was difficult for people to try to breach and enter it? were there windows that they could see into that they could perhaps engage, and in law enforcement engage means drop the weapon or we're shooting, or if anybody is shooting, to shoot at them and end this or could that occur through the windows. those are the types of questions that at this stage probably

should be able to be answered. i'm reporting on these types of incidents and i hope we get those answers soon. >> carmen, those are questions family members are asking, that people in the community are asking, don't we have anything that could have gotten us into the classroom faster? we saw something similar in the parkland shooting, a security officer is there but can't or doesn't stop the gunman. that brings us to the central question i asked at the top which was could something have been done soon or should something have been done sooner from what we've done now, what is your assessment? >> like tom said, we should at this point have a timeline -- when i was chief, that is one of the first things we would do after a major incident, officer-involved shooting, get the timeline of the sequence of events. we know from your radio transmissions and dispatching what time people answered calls, said they were around, announced their arrival, notified

location. all that information should be ready available at this point. in terms of giving specifics about what occurred, the suspect is down and no longer with us, so there's not really the prosecution angle of protecting some of that evidence that you might have otherwise. there should be a lot more information coming out. i will say this, it does take time to gather and rally people to get to a point, a call comes out, some people will come, self-deploy. others will grab their gear and head there. so there could be a delay in getting people to a location like this, particularly in a small rural area. >> carmen, we know republicans have long favored armed guards at schools. they argue the only way to stop a bad person with guns is good people with guns. we have examples, recently in buffalo and now in uvalde, that gunmen were confronted by armed

guards. should they be able to trop someone? is this a training issue? are we asking them to do something that frankly they're outgunned to do and isn't realistic. what can you tell us? >> i can tell you as a chief and even now one of my big concerns is that there are so many assault rifles and other high-powered, high-capacity magazines that officers very well could be outgunned at one of these scenes and circumstances. so because of that there has to be extra precaution. not going to be able to take down a person in body armor if that is, in fact, the case in this situation. in body armor, carrying assault weapons with your sidearm. it's going to be very difficult. that is a very valid consideration. >> tom, you and i were talking about the number of school shootings and mass shootings overall. the ar-15 was the gun of choice

for uvalde, buffalo, all these locations. talk about the difference between one of these ar-15s about what the average cop or average school security officer carries? >> typically you won't have a school safety officer walking around with an ar-15. that would be ridiculous in the confines of doing their job on a day-to-day basis. you don't see that. you have somebody that shows up with a weapon that has the ability to be extraordinarily accurate, extraordinarily easy to fire, that projects a bullet at a very, very fast speed, that can cause tremendous amounts of damage and has the ability to go through -- i remember the nypd did an active shooter video that they put out on this. they took a bunch of office furniture and school furniture and fired a 223 round at it and an ar-15 round at it.

it would go through full filing cabinets. it would go through desks. they are not ways to shield yourself. these are incredibly violent weapons. so when you look at it in that setting, it's difficult to ask one person, they can do their absolute best to stop somebody, but they're going up against serious fire power. >> you could hide behind a full filing cabinet and still get shot? >> yes. the bullet does have the ability to go through a full filing cabinet. >> vivid description of what an ar-15 can do. tom and carmen, thank you both. still to come, educators across the nation are reeling with grief and fear that their classroom very well could be the next to face this awful kind of tragedy. we've spoken to teachers who survived the attack about their trauma and how they can move forward. that's after this. you're watching chris jansing reports.

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. reactions of the teachers in texas were nothing short of heroic. they were shot and killed at the massacre at their school on tuesday. according to their families, they died doing what most teachers are now expected to do, protect their students even at the cost of their own lives. using their bodies to shield children from bullets. nbc's sam brock is in uvalde, texas, with more. there are not words for the bravery these two women displayed, no armor, no guns, just their bodies to shield these children. i was watching your report today including this tiktok video posted by a teacher about what classrooms look like right now amid this type of threat. talk to us about that? >> reporter: in terms of the reaction is instinct. we found out there are two teachers with a collective

experience of 40 years. they also happen to be mothers. precisely what garcia and her alice did, they put themselves between the shooter and the bullets flying towards their kids. there are new protocols for teachers. taylor mora was describing the fact of what she needs to do every day she goes to school to make sure the door can lock easily, there's a window cover that comes down, a safe space accessible for her in the event of an emergency. a snip pit of a tiktok she put on social media. >> the reality of being a teacher is making sure your door can quickly lock in case there's an active threat, having a window cover you can quickly pull down. loving natural sunlight but having to pull down your window cover so no one can see inside your classroom. making sure your safe place is cleared and accessible.

creating a plan for your students but knowing there are so many, well, what if they came in this way, how can i hide 20-plus kids and keep them quiet when they're afraid? i'm afraid and i was never trained for this. >> reporter: uvalde police are about to do a press conference. there are a lot of questions right now. that video circulating showing a group of parents urging law enforcement to take action and why they did not. we're expecting to hear more about that. the bottom, the heroism displayed by these teachers is something they should not be expected to do but do it anyway because it's in their dna. >> sam, thank you for that. for more of the tragedy and its effect on teachers. i want to bring in president of the texas state teachers association. thank you for being with us. teachers around the country are dealing with one of the intense

multi-year challenges ever because of covid. now this increase in the number of mass shootings. tell me what you're hearing from teachers. i wonder if there's been a more difficult time to be an educator. i don't know that there has. thank you for having me here and for allowing or hearing what our educators are going through. we are hearing from people here in texas and around the country of the realities that our ed raters, not just our teachers, but everybody that works in that school building has to go through knowing every day that it could happen on their campus, it could happen to them. what are they going to do. as you saw in that video, we have to look at and plan every single day for the possibility. it's living with anxiety. it's living with anger about why things haven't changed after so many mass shootings. >> i want to read to you from an article in the "philadelphia

inquirer" today. it says: we have seen the results of unfettered access to killing machines for years, says nicole moore, president of the indian hills school in burlington county who was prepared to field calls from anxious parents. what will it ever take? like many local educators and parents grappling with the texas tragedy, it's become inescapable for many. would her school be next? is that what you're hearing? >> that's what we're hearing. we're hearing from educators that they are preparing for themselves to be next every single day. every day shea show up to teach their children, to love their children, to ensure their communities have what they need. it's a possibility that you may not go home. >> the question is what do we do about it? one of the answers that we're

hearing from some including the lieutenant governor of your state, texas, is that teachers should be armed. what do you say to that? >> it's frustrating how our lawmakers like the lieutenant governor is so disconnected from what happens in our public schools, from what we as educators need and want. we educators don't want more weapons in our schools. we don't want more bullets flying in the middle of chaos. we're not trained killers. we're not trained to shoot. while we're trying to protect our students, trying to protect our co-workers, trying to protect ourselves in the middle of chaos, i wouldn't be able to shoot in the middle of all that chaos. many of the shooters we've seen have been former students. we make a connection with our students. how am i going to react and be able to shoot without hurting other people when i have a

connection to the shooter? he does not understand what teachers e paraprofessionals, administrators go through every day and he needs to talk to educators. we're asking for better laws to be enforced to keep us safe, not throwing more things for us to have more things for us to have to do. >> at this very difficult time and i know there is a lot of fear out there among teachers and, as i've said, they've been through so much already these past several years. thank you so much for what you and teachers do and for taking the time to talk to us. >> there's been so much information about the shootings. it spread like wildfire online within hours. we're debunking the three most common rumors we've seen on social media so far after that. you're watching "chris jansing reports." you're watching "chris jansing reports.

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figures with some posts even calling distraught parents crisis actors. the second was that the the gun man was transgender. and finally that the gunman was an undocumented immigrant. that detail spread even after authorities confirmed he was born in north dakota. let's bring in one of the authors of that the "new york times" piece. tiffany, so much misinformation. how pervasive are these lies and how do they even happen? is it just made up out of thin air? >> often there's very little evidence. as parents are processing what's going on, these rumors are spreading online. >> let's talk about the false flag.

alex jones lost four defamation suits for claiming the same against the sandy hook shootings. these lies cause real pain to the families, right? >> it's devastating. unfortunately this is a narrative that gets repeated after every school shooting and mass shooting and there are many of them in this country. >> some of the other targets of these lies, undocumented immigrants, transgender people. we know there are groups online who often spread disinformation. is there any way to get this stuff down? is this all tracked? talk a little bit about how to keep this stuff from getting out there in the first place because it just travels so fast. >> you know, the platforms have actually been fairly fast this time around to try to take done some of these rumors. a quick search on telegram,

twitter, gap, shows these sorts of lies are still floating around, that the parents are crisis actors because they were either too emotional on camera interviews or they weren't emotional enough, that a third grader hiding in the cafeteria was a crisis actor, that the dead teachers were crisis actors. it spreads so quickly, whether three screen shots, private channels, it's hard to combat. that's interesting this time around when the false rumors about the transgender nature of the shooter, which have been debunked, when those started to gain traction, several of the transgender women who have been circulating posted pictures of themselves saying this is me, i'm still alive, i'm obviously not the shooter. they said take them down, this a

lie. >> do we have any indication that they did that in. >> some did. some posters, for example, a group in california that focusses on gun rights took down their posts of one transjend are woman and apologized. >> tiffany hsu, thank you for being with us. hsu, thank you f being with us. wow. get your competitive offer at opendoor.com welcome to your world. your why. what drives you? what do you want to leave behind? what do you want to give back? what do you want to be remembered for? that's your why.

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and we are keeping our eye on this live picture from texas in the next 30 minutes. you can watch "chris jansing reports" at 1:00 eastern on msnbc. katy tur is here to pick up our coverage. great to have you. >> it's good to be with you. the investigation into the attack at robb elementary school in uvalde, texas is under way. the first report of that gunman approaching the school came around 11:30