they can download, print it out, read it, whatever they need. that's where we start with families that are new to our club that nobody wants to belong to. >> we've been to 25 -- this will be the 25th. when we get to uvalde tomorrow, this will be our 25th public mass shooting. >> our 20th, honey. >> i'm sorry, our 20th. in time it takes for this dust to settle, these people will not know anything about what's going on. it takes, at least, four or five days to get your bearings and try to figure what to do, how to do it. when this happened to us, we had nobody to help us. the first mass shooting that we responded to was sandy hook. when we saw those people, when we walked in, we were like zombies. they didn't remember us the next time we met them or the next

time we met them. we have the guide, the tool kit for them to follow now. when they are able and say progress, we will still be there to talk with them, to them through this. >> most important thing for them now is they get trauma therapy immediately. not trauma informed, now grief counselling, trauma therapy. we have the ability with another woman that we work with to bring in 25 trauma informed therapists to uvalde for free. they are paying out of their own pockets to do this. hopefully, we'll be able to get to them very, very quickly and provide real trauma therapy to them to get them moving forward again. >> sandy, i hope that no one else will have to use that tool

kit. sandy and lonnie, i'm sorry to cut it short. i'm are you positiving into the next hour. thank you so much for being with us. that's going to do it for me today. halle jackson picks up our coverage now. here is where we are. we have new details about the time line about the school door being unlocked. even some confusion on that and new clarity on this point that there was no school security official at the door to try to engage the gunman. that's different from what we heard about 24 hours ago. still no answer on why it took an hour, an hour from 11:44 to about 12:45 to get to the shooter. we're watching the white house where we could hear from press secretary since the massacre.

we're watching for more details of when president biden might plan to visit texas. this is what police laid out about 25 minutes ago. about ten minutes later, 11:40 is when the shooter entered the school. the gunshots diminished.

it was an hour later, they say, that the u.s. border patrol tactical team comes in, shoots and kills the gunman in this case. a will the of questions about what was described as a negotiation that was happening at some point during that hour. i want the play a bit of what we just heard. listen. >> was there a school officer on campus and was that school officer armed because that's what we have been told. >> at this time, no. no. there was not an officer readily available. no. >> was there an officer? >> no. i can't answer that yet. i'll circle back with you. as we do that investigation, we have all these questions we want to answer. i'll get back with you, sir. >> a lot of questions, to say the least. >> unfortunately, the follow up here after you quoted him because he said negotiation but when i asked him about negotiation, was there a two way

communication and he said no. i don't believe that's properly negotiation. it's an attempt to contact. more importantly, is this hour or so that seemed to elapse where the officers who are now inside the school, parents outside screaming go in to the other officers outside, waiting for the officers inside to make what we would call, if you're in military, a dynamic entry but getting in through that door. the officer say that the door was barricaded but the definition of barricaded, we do not know. was it simply locked. remember the officers are armed as well. they have to be cautious that they will not fire their weapon and have friendly fire and shoot the wrong person. for an hour they wait and as they are waiting that hour, there is occasional more gunfire even though the officers said most of the gunfire was at the

beginning. suggesting that most of the children were killed in those first moments but still, there's one hour. i cannot imagine what it would be like to be a parent outside wondering about what's going on inside and why the officers, the people who have all their trust in are not going in there and helping. we have seen this before but it's most important to note that police know since columbine that their job is to go in. they do not hold back. there is well rehearsed and well documented evidence in police tactics that you do not wait. every officer knows what you do. they've had school shooting drills. we're talking about a community of 16,000 and the kids know

about active shooter drills. i'm not sure it's going to be acceptable that these officers might not be trained in what to do in the situation because the officers know their job is to go protect and to serve. in this case i think it will be a lot of questions. we know because we have asked repeatedly what took the officers so long. at the end of the news conference, which i think we stuck with live here on msnbc when hammered by reporters again and again, he said we'll get back to you on this as opposed to sticking with which only raises more questions. >> i want to give to jim on that. police say officers engaged at

the school. >> yeah, i mean, for me also, they have doubled the security budget for the schools in the district since santa fe because of another shooting in texas. they have done drills, monitored social media. they trained for moments like this. you can never train for a moment like this but why wasn't there an officer armed here. they even believed there was an armed officer here because they told us that. then we learned there was no officer. the shooter with an ar-15 rifle was able to jump a fence and walk right into the school and that's what will kill the parents most. obviously the death of their children it's soul crushing know how easy it was for this young man, this young killer to go inside there. then there's big questions about the gaps. i know why they had this news conference because there were several reports about the response, about the timeline. that's why they had the news conference. they wanted to clarify things

but what they have done is created more doubt. they created more questions and i got to tell you, we have seen the video. i can want imagine what it's like to be a parent. we have seen the video of the parents waiting out here trying to get in, being held down by police because they wanted the police to go in there. the timeline is incredibly frustrating and his answer was we're a small town. another thing that stood out to me that is so unbelievable but tells you how powerful those rifles are, that 18-year-old with that weapon was able the hold off, by my count, at least three different departments. they had to wait for tactical team from customs and border protection that had the right equipment to take him on. that shows you how powerful that one rifle is. >> tom, i have a question on that. do we know when that tactical team arrived? i'm not sure and you tell me, you're on the ground there but isn't it possible that they had gotten there and did not breach the door.

there are questions about not just the door barricade and how long that team and other teams were on the ground. >> reporter: it's my understanding from the way they described it was is they were waiting to enter to have the right officers with the right tactical gear, the right weapons to take on this shooter. there's definitely some hesitation to breach the door. i know there's no perfect answer here. i would late to be the regional director for the texas ranger. i think they wanted to make things better and i think they might have made things worse. >> i'm glad you're there for us. thank you. i know you have more reporting to do. i'm going to ask whoever can stand by to stand by. looking at my screen but jim i have to come to you. you understand the training here. i want to hear from you.

>> killer in a room with 30 people -- >> whatever you're about to say. please be gentle on that. that's all i'm going to say. >> i understand. he can kill all those people with that rifle from those cites in 30 to 40 seconds. that weapon is came capable of killing 30 people in 30 or 40 seconds, as fast as you can pull the trigger. you need to understand that dynamic as we walk through what can happen. i think we had a large delay. here is a reason there's a delay. america's police are ill equipped and have not prepared to have patrol officers acting in a active shooter stack, which we all train on three to five first responding officers entering with tactical rifles. we have not prepared them with

any breaching tools. this is systemic in policing. after the virginia tech massacre where they barricaded and locked the doors. the ammish school in lancaster, pennsylvania where they barricaded the doors. i always brought this up. i know we go to training but nobody is prepared to breach. they get in and get to the point of contact right behind the door. here is patrol officers. maybe they have tactical rifles. i hope so but they can't breach the door. this is a police barricade. a barricade is when a person is in a structure and they have locked the structure or pushed stuff up against the door and or they are keeping the police at bay with a rifle. simply keeping the police at bay or even a handgun, keeping

police at bay with deadly force or locking the door is called a barricade. >> got it. >> when they are holding people, like he was in this case, it's called a hostage barricade. the training and i did this in the training with the active shooter training. i locked hallway door when officers are going through the school. it threw all the training in a tizzy. i locked the hallway door. they can't get through. this is a failure. we need to fix in policing. we need to fix that because we had officers outside the door. now, one way you can fix that quickly is get a hook and ladder there fast. they are three minutes away. the firefighters are expert breachers. they are physical. they got every tool. they are fearless. start working quickly with your hook and ladder company because we'll have another mass shooting in the next two weeks. one other vital thought, you got

to understand, i was a hostage negotiator. if you reach the other side of that door and the killer is in that door and you have no breaching tools, how are you going to get in? the smartest thing try the contact. if you can contact, you may be able to stop the killing through talking. if you can engage, if he will talk, that may stop him from killing and you may be able the buy some time until you can get an officer around to the window and maybe take him out with a sniper. by time you could ever rattle door, he could kill every one inside in 40 seconds. that's not always the answer just to charge. what bortac had to do is get a key from the principal. tom was talking about that. i don't know how long it took them to get the key from the principal. that's how they made the entry. >> jim, stand by for a second. morgan, i want to get to you. something tom and kerry have

raised and jim i'll have you talk about this in a second too. the point in this country now where there's a protocol for how the sort of public response to a mass shooting like this exists. the things you do and the idea of best practices in place on communication for the family of the victims. the last thing, the second to last thing they want is to have confusion over how their loved ones was taken from them far too soon. i know you've been on the ground and talking with these families, with people who lost the people so dear to them. we'll talk more about the victims later in the show but i want the hear from you. >> reporter: if and when peace returns to uvalde, i don't think anyone has a time frame for that. frustration, anger, there are emotion after emotion here hitting every one. i think that there are two simultaneous things happening.

you have the investigation that leaves a lot of unclear thoughts as to what took place and while people try to process that, they have to try to move on. standing here in the middle of the town square that just feels such, like such a peaceful place, there are 21 crosses behind me with 21 names of students and teachers from robb elementary school and it's just shocking to, on one hand hear the investigation provide little to no detail on some of those critical moments and at the same time see people coming here to pay their respects. not just from here in uvalde but all over this part of texas. i spoke to a gentleman who brought his young son. they made the drive in today to walk this square and pay their respects in front of each of these crosses. people signing words of

encouragement for families facing the unthinkable and losing loved ones life. there's a heartbreaking update today. one of the teachers who lost their live at robb elementary school, her husband, suffered a fatal heart attack today. that's according to the county judge who told me that now, this family has to deal with loss of not one but two people in just a span of a few day. that heart attack, the word of that spreading quickly through this town and it's only adding to the shock that people are still proses -- processing right now. >> you're talking about irma garcia, her husband in. >> reporter: i am. i am. you hear that and today was supposed to be last day of school. that was supposed to be a data kid and teachers look forward

to, the start of summer. the start of, getting ready for a little break before coming back next fall. there's none of that here. there's not a shred. people are forced to try to comprehend what's taking place coupled with this investigation that has provided not as much clarity as anyone would have liked and in the meantime you have funeral homes here in uvalde who are doing all they can to help out the families. they are offering funeral services for free and yet the task they face, the unthinkable, 21 lives that will be laid to rest in the coming days here from one small town. >> morgan, thank you for being there. thank you for that report and so many people think of those victims. irma garcia had four children and now their father is gone. dead of a heart attack. quite literally a shattered heart here. morgan, i know you have to go.

tom, let me start with you and morgan was saying on the investigation and the gaps in information and a key question here which is how this shooter was able to very much walk unobstructed into this classroom. i want to play it for the news conference there. >> continues walking toward the school. he climbs a fence. now he's in the parking lot. shooting at the school. multiple times. 11:40, he walks into the west side of robb elementary. >> tom, what else stood out to you from the outstanding questions that there still are and we did get some new clarity especially on this idea that is we thought based on conversations and what we heard from law enforcement there was a school resource officer or somebody engaging the shooter in the minutes before he entered the school to now finding out

now only did that not happen, there may not have been any officer on the presis at all. we never reported that. that's ha they said multiple times. we are both agast sat some of the details we are hearing. one component of their training, just one component of it is a response to these active shooter incidents and we spent time in a training facility paying

attention how they go from room the room to see how they go after it. the number one thing that stuck out and the number one thing this person that i'm texting with now is it's not an hour that counts, it's not minutes that count, it's seconds that count. one of the things that jim keyed in on before just how quickly all of there can go down and we're talk about little kids here. i've got some questions as to what the thought process was. this isn't a situation where somebody is threatening to do something. this person has already done something. they've already fired shots. they've already fired at you. the time for discussion is over. law enforcement in this country gets criticized rightly, sometimes wrongly depending on the situation according to experts. not my words, theirs for their use of force. this is a situation where use of force is not in question. it needed to be used here. that's what people in law enforcement are texting myself.

these are the exact things we heard about for years. it's difficult to believe this hasn't permeated this department. we have seen the video go around of parents outside of the school. i want to be cautious about it. we don't know the timing of when that happen. you do need to keep some perimeter to make sure they aren't going into an active shooter situation so we need more details about this. you don't want people entering the scenario. on the other hand i completely understand if you're parent and i am one now, if you're hearing shot going on in the school, you want to try to go in and help. the response is certainly understood. couple other things that stuck out, 11:28 this accident occurs. he stole this pickup truck. drives it into there ditch. gets out and starts firing right away at some onlookers at a nearby funeral home. he's already firing shots and he

didn't enter the school until 11:40. this school district formed its own police department so the school district has its own police department. was there an officer there. another key question here and i guarantee you they are focusing on this. the idea that the school door was unlocked. that's a big concern but it was well known yesterday that this was going to be in an awards day at the school. that's why so many parents are there. that's why we hear the heartbreaking stories about the kids that were killed. did this person pay attention to that and is that why they chose yesterday? that might speak to a bit of their state of mind. this answers a few questions. there's still a lot of questions that remain. they put together a stack. i want to hit on this point. the cbp arrives.

we have asked and our colleague who has just totally owns the reporting when it comes to that is asking me those questions when did they arrive and they stormed a stack. that did involve low kwal law enforcement. >> it's great context hearing in realtime what you're hearing from your law enforcement sources are important. jim let me ask you because we have you here. is it ever appropriate or

recommended in the middle of an ongoing shooting, mass shooting like this, for law enforcement to wait for the tactical team to arrive? in other words, is there any instance that would be indicated, recommended by active shooter training? this is for jim. >> there's no shooting going on then you have a good chance of killing everybody inside if you're trying to pry that door open because the killer can just turn around and kill everybody inside. >> then in a negotiation -- >> the question is -- >> go ahead. i'm sorry. >> the question is are people alive inside? are you unsure? if you can't get in there kick,

tom is exactly right. he described nypd team, they can do an explosive entry they could overwhelm the guy and he will not be able to shoot the hostage but three patrol officers cannot do that. they have no breaching equipment. they probably should have got the key faster which bortac did the key but if the people are alive, halle and you're over here, unless you can really get in there fast, if you have the key, maybe you can get in there and kill him. if you can't, you don't want to cause him to kill everybody. if you can start talking and he's not killing, then hold him in it because you're right here at the breach point and squad is coming. >> what we heard from the news conference, it was not a two sided conversation, correct? >> right. >> it was not a two sided discussion. they were not getting a response from the shooter, per what we heard from the news conference 30 minutes ago now.

>> i agree with that. >> if you define the word, go back and forth. >> jim, thank you. >> if it was a negotiation. >> jim, got you. thank you. kerry, let me play traffic cop. go to you. jump in here. >> i'm just sort of trying to paint a little geographical picture here. the stolen pickup truck goes into the ditch. he comes out shooting. that's when the witnesses in the area scattered. he climbs the fence and doesn't enter until 11:40. i believe they made that decision on the actual time of entry based on the cameras that they say that they have both inside and outside.

sirens going getting here. arriving in that 12-minute period. i know the exact time of the first 911 call. there was no school resource officer. there was information as tom winter pointed out presented live on our air with a spokesperson from the dps. there's no school resource officer who confronts him. there's not a school resource officer at the school. makes his way down the hall another 20 feet. while it's an individual classroom it's a shared environment where the teachers can open the doors if between and we hear about the multiple shots. as you look at all of this then you have the most critical question is that one hour period where the officers are outside.

i'm not sure what those officers were thinking. i don't know whether they will eventually look back on this and second guess themselves for the rest of their lives or whether they think they followed the appropriate moves in the crisis of the situation but the after will go very detailed. just remember in parkland, scott peterson, the deputy who did not even go into the building faces charges. there's a lot that could come out of this but at the most importantly we have parents who forever are going to now hang onto that one hour period and say, was my child maybe still alive and killed in that one hour that maybe my child would still be here with me today. >> i appreciate the three of you.

shannon, i want to get to you quickly. the white house press briefing is set to gip. we have heard from president biden already a couple of times on the horrific attack in texas. there will be some questions, i would presume about some of what developing as it relates to gun reform legislation on capitol hill. again, i don't think anybody is getting ahead of their skis on that one. perhaps even, some of the questions we have been talk about here on the air. >> this will give the white house an opportunity to respond to some of these additional details ta we learned as this tragedy becomes even more horrific as each hour goes by. there will be an opportunity to hear more from the white house on that front. that will give him another moment to make the pleas to

congress for some sort of action on gun reform. the president has indicated that he feels like at this point, he does not have the tools as the president from the executive branch to do something meaningful on gun reform legislation. what the white house and the president are asking for is one, an assault weapons ban when you think of the description tom and jim gave of the weapon, the shooter used, the power of that. that is case in point for why the president has been saying these weapons, these ar-1s should not be so readily available. the second thing, universal background checks requiring every one who purchases a gun to have a background check. we heard about red flag laws coming up. there's not some universal red flag law that can be done at the federal level. there are standards the federal government can set and states can enact the red flag laws. all of that, of course, as my

colleagues have been reporting is long shot given the political dynamics. >> thank you for being with us as we dealt with this rolling coverage here. still ahead, we'll talk with local and state leaders on the ground, including a top democratic lawmakers. first, we'll get into who is still attending nra convention in texas tomorrow, 72 hours after the school massacre on the other side of the state. a closer look at as the nra stopped the cdc from investigating there as a public issue. machine c from investigating there as a public investigating there as a public issue.king on ♪ ♪ walking on the moon ♪ ♪ some ♪ ♪ may say ♪ machin ♪ i'm wishing my days away ♪ ♪ no way ♪ ♪ walking on the moon ♪

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. just 72 hous after the robb elementary murder, gun advocates are set to gather in houston. the speakers set to include

former president trump. saying they are fot planning the attend for other reasons, we should not. senator cornyn off referenced a personal matter. you get several activists groups planning demonstrations in houston this weekend. i want to bring in garrett on the road.

>> i expect the see much of what you described, including significant protests who are concerned that discovery green that is a big park area where this nra convention is planning to be held. one of the officials is a bit concerned about hpd officers having to be between these groups who see such a heated issue so fundamentally differently. we know we will hear from the nra conference. we have heard it in the past. texas governor greg abbott who considered the recommendation fls the past scheduled to appear but told reporters yesterday he's kind of taking this minute by minute. we're not going to hear in what the protesters and advocates want to hear is discussion from the nra about what can be done

to make school safer. taking guns out of the hands of dangerous people. earlier today i had the chance to talk to tony gonzalez, hoost the republican member of congress. i try repeatedly to ask him about one of the things discussed here which is age limits. in texas you have to be 21 to buy a handgun but only 18 to buy an assault rifle. i asked several time. >> why can you buy an ar-15 when you're 18 years old, you can't buy a beer? >> we have to be unified. >> you haven't answered my question. why did an 18-year-old need an ar-15? >> why does an 18-year-old in texas need to be able the buy an assault rifle? >> the reality is this isn't a new topic. there's been a lot of

legislation that's been out there. >> the congressman is right on the last point there. this is not a new topic. it's a much discussioned topic and on the question of texas gun law, that's not a congressional matter. governor abbot was asked the other day and his response is it's been in law in texas for 60 years that a person can buy a long gun at the age of 18. i grew up in texas, a lot has changed here in any lifetime which has been shorter than 60 years. gun rights advocates say perhaps now is the time to consider those changes here in texas. >> on the road to the nra conference in houston. i'll see you tomorrow morning. appreciate it. some musicians, one of them has pulled out of a concert that woz supposed to happen. other musicians are still slated to play. we'll keep our eye on that. i want to take a beat here. we consider on this show and across msnbc the most important

part of this which is the victims, these kids. these amaing 19 children. their two hero teacher who are gone, who were slaughtered in a classroom on teacher because the details are awful. i know you don't want to hear about it. i don't think a lot of people do. you might want a break from the news, even the people who cover the news want a break from the news. we got the talk about these people. got to talk about the lives lost too soon. we're hearing more now today from their families. we're learning more about their names and not just names but how old they were, the numbers, the little people. the parents talked to savanna on the today show about how special she was. just how special this person they lost was. watch. >> sweetest girl you ever had chance to meet.

>> lexi rubio. she started her day at an awards ceremony. they was named to the honor roll and got good citizen award. her parents saying they sent her off to class for the afternoon not knowing that was good-bye. tess mata, her family telling the washington post she loved learning tik tok dances. she loved ariana grande and the houston astros. sheloved getting her hair curled. makenna elrod. amerie telling cbs about his picture perfect daughter. >> she was the sweetest thing. she was so creative. she just got award for being the most creative. she doesn't hurt anyone. she doesn't bully. she does the right thing. >> she does the right thing.

this is layla salazar. he parents described her as a budding athlete. she loved to swim and run. she won six races. six of them at field day at school not too long ago. uziyah garcia also a little sports star in the making. they were throwing the football a couple months ago with his grandfather. he was running routes, catching the tough passes. he was getting the zigzag plays down. eliahana cruz torres. she loved baseball. she was just ten. alithia ramirez celebrated her birthday. he said balloons were still hanging up inside. she just celebrated her birthday. these are some of the awesome pieces of art that was on the family's wall.

nevaeh's family said she's a princess. he would make them coffee every single morning. he would get up and make them coffee and he was proud of helping grandma and grandpa start their days. jailah said she didn't want the go to school the next. by tuesday morning she was sent to get back to class. we talked about irma garcia earlier in the show. one of the hero teachers said to be found holding children in her arms. a former robb elementary parent tell us exactly be kind of person she was. watch. >> i don't doubt one bit that she stood right there in front of the gunman and said, you're not taking my kids. you're not going to hurt my kids because that's the type of person that she was. >> the other teacher who was killed, eva mireles telling cnn

she loved what she did. she put her whole heart into her work and the kids were the extension of her own family. her daughter had a facebook post called her her best friend. jackie cazares made her first communion. the shooting took her cousin. they shared classroom at robb. they were more than just cousins. they were best friends. rojelio's mother said she was a smart, loving child. xavier lopez family said he loved the dance. another little tik tok star in the making. jose had a baby brother he adored looking after. that was a big part of why he wanted the grow up to be a police officer because he wanted to protect other people. all of them, every single one taken from their families far, far too soon.

these are faces of uvalde. i want to bring in msnbc anchor jose diaz on the ground. >> reporter: there's bit of news that is just coming across. you just were talking about irma garcia, the teacher who lost her life. no doubt protecting her children. today we're learning that her husband, joe, married 24 years, they have four children died of heart attack today. they leave behind four children, 24 years of marriage and just 48 hours after his wife died in the school. joe passed away today of heart attack leaving those four children without a mother or a

father. this pain continues. it grows. so does this makeshift memorial and honoring those people who whose lives were lost here with the 21 crosses and flowers and balloons and stuffed animals. people come by day and night to drop off flowers. i spoke to a lady who said that her great, great granddaughter goes do this school. she was one of the ones that survived. she came here to bring flowers to those who did not.

the makeshift memorials at these crosses here. maria lost her son two years ago. two years ago when her son's girlfriend shot and killed him. maria and her daughter jamie made that hours long drive to come to leave flowers here because they wanted you to know that they share in the pain of what these families are going through. take a listen to conversation with jamie. >> you find it important to be here. >> i know what it feels like. when i lost my brother, it was like the end of the world for me. that's how it was. i have to come and talk to at least, let them know that we're here no matter what. even if it's just -- i didn't know any single one of them.

i know what it feels like. i want them to feel that support because that's what i needed and that's how i get by every single day. >> how do you heal from something like that in. >> you never do. you never do because you still feel that pain every single day because you will never get that person back no matter what. i know what it feels like. their life changed so quickly just like mine did. all because of the guns. >> what do you want to tell the families that are going through right now what you started going through but still go through today? >> that it's not easy. it's hard every single day but, you know, you just know that you have to stay strong. you have to. that's the only way you'll make it through. >> reporter: you have to be strong that's the only way. you never get your brother back.

that's part of what this community of 17,000 is going through and 21 families are feeling and going through in a real visceral and painful a very visceral, real and painful way. >> jose diaz balart, thank you for being on the ground for us in texas. appreciate it. let's bring it back here to washington and the building behind me because the conversation about guns and school safety is taking up a lot of the oxygen on the hill and there's this question everybody keeps asking. what realistically could or will congress do to help prevent the next horrific mass shooting. listen, if history is a guide, probably nothing. look back to nearly 25 years ago to what was at the time the deadliest school shooting in u.s. history. the massacre at columbine. two dozen hurt. there was a rush to get federal bills on the books. the youth gun enforcement act was introduced only three weeks

after columbine and to put in place mandatory background checks, more restriction to kids and neither bill passed the house. no bill became law. you had a ban on semi-automatic weapons like ar-15s that expired and both chambers were then controlleded by republicans and lawmakers brought the ban up for renewal. in 2012 the world saw what happened in newtown, a shooter at sandy hook elementary killing 26 people. 20 of them just 6 and 7-year-old students. president obama basically begged for something to happen on gun safety. congressional democrats drafted a bill to expand background checks. no deal. >> in 2016, 49 people were killed in pulse nightclub in orlando. the senate was deadlocked just eight days after the mass shooting mostly along party lines, all six failed. in october 2016, 16 people were

killed by a shooter in the 26th floor of the vegas shooting and at the time in this instance the nra supported tighter restrictions on bumpstocks. congress stalled and president trump did ban them through executive action so there was that. on valentine's day, former senor mark row rubio introduced a red flag bill that would let law enforcement restrict gun access for people who were considered unstable who could be a threat to others or themselves. rubio's bill was re-introduced twice in the senate and never got a vote on the floor. now, as this country goes through the second deadliest school shooting in american history and the second major mass shooting at an elementary school in the past decade, there sea still that question, is it going to be different this time? here's chris murphy. >> there are a few more executive actions the president could take, but i think really

the ball is in our court. this is something that the congress has to take a hold of right now. >> joining us now is digital senior congressional correspondent scott wong. okay, scott. reality check. there's more conversation about red flag laws and punch bowls were reporting a meeting and other members of the senate. where are we on this? >> well, you know, it depends on who you ask on capitol hill. some people are very just disenchanted with the process. if you look back at the decade since sandy hook massacre, nothing has really changed, but i did talk to some senators who are involved in this bipartisan working group including pat toomey, republican from pennsylvania, he's retiring and he's on his way out and he wants to get something done. he's joining this group that involves chris murphy, richard plumen that will, kristen sinema

and mitch mcconnell has signalled to reporters that he has encouraged jon cornyn of texas where this latest mass shooting took place to get inwill vofled in these talks and he's encouraging these groups to come to some bipartisan consensus right now. it looks like the talks are centering on this idea on red flag laws which would allow authorities to confiscate firearms from people deemed to be a hazard or a danger to themselves or to others. another aspect that this group is looking at is, of course, background checks which came up after the sandy hook shooting a decade ago, failed by six votes and failed to reach that magic number of 60 votes in the senate and has not really come up since then. so manchin and toomey who

negotiated that deal are part of this bipartisan working group and they are focused once again on background checks. >> scott wong, thank you for that. i want to share a bit of breaking news. we have learned that president biden will be traveling sunday to uvalde, texas. we knew that the president and the first lady and -- i'm just checking to make sure, it is both of them, joe biden and jill biden will be traveling. the first lady suggested it and the president himself did not waive that off. details are coming in, as we look ahead on the weekend about what we will see on the ground in texas. that will be president biden's second trip in two weeks to the site of a mass shooting. buffalo at the tops supermarket just about a week and a half ago he visited, and then sunday to uvalde. i want to bring in somebody who knows texas, who knows the town well. texas state representative chris turner, the chair of the democratic caucus and the texas

house of representatives and i know it's been an excruciating couple of days for you. >> thank you, hallie. thank you for having me on. it's been a tough few days in texas. >> you're a democrat in the state that is controlled at every level in the state by republicans. i know you want to have governor abbott act, do you want the governor to hold a special session to talk about this? do you think that's realistic? >> i think that's what should happen. in 2019 we saw 23 people murdered at a walmart in el paso by a mass shooter. the democrat caucus called a special session to enact a very specific reform and you want to close the background check of loophole and ban high-capacity magazines and ban the open carry of assault rifles in public and

i.e., red flag laws and a couple of other things. the governor ignored our demand for action and instead in the regular session in 2021, he and republicans responded by further weakening what gun laws we do have in texas, specifically passing the bill to where someone doesn't have any training or a license to carry a handgun in the open or conceal. so republicans and greg abbot have taken the wrong direction and meanwhile, we'll continue to have these horrific tragedies like we saw this week in uvalde. >> one of my colleagues, garrett haake who is headed to the nra convention and before he left he spoke with congressman gonzalez and we heard garrett ask why is it that an 18-year-old can repeatedly get assault weapons, and no answer.

do you believe 18-year-olds should get assault weapons in texas. >> no. i think if you have to be 21 to buy alcohol, you have to be 21 to buy an ar-15 like this killer bought, and so i think that's something we should do in texas, and i hope congress does it, too, because apparently it's the case in many states that you can buy these weapons at age 18. >> let me pick up this thread with you that we started our show with, which was the news conference that we heard from law enforcement officials in uvalde about what had happened. there have been, as you i'm sure are well aware, gaps in the time line now regarding the police response to this instance. >> do you have plans to call an investigation into the police response into what specifically happened and finding out more as this shooting unfolded? >> yeah. there are a lot of things that happened and the response from

law enforcement and frankly, there have been contradictory statements issued by the department of public safety between yesterday and those questions need to be answered and there has to be a comprehensive timeline and what happened. this window of 40 to 60 minutes as the bps director described that's inexplicable to a lot of people with that length of time and the precision of that time estimate, 40 to 60 minutes demands some answers. i speak for myself, my colleagues and all texans we want to see answers and a thorough explanation. texas state representative, congressman castro of texas called on the fbi to use their authority to investigate and provide a full report on what happened in uvalde. we will stay on this topic here on msnbc this afternoon.

"deadline white house" picks up our coverage right now. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> hi there, everyone. 4:00 in new york. brand-new reporting and inquiries about the police response to tuesday's trajic and horrific school shooting in uvalde, texas, the rampage that took the lives of 21 people including 19 young children and two heroic teachers. after a press conference that left many with a whole lot more questions than answers. officials told reporters that the gunman was not confronted by anybody when he entered the elementary. that's after they initially said that an officer on site had engaged with the gunman. this official adds that the shooter was on the premises for an hour before he was shot dead by the police. sources are also telling nbc news that law enforcement which included a tactical team from customs and border patrol was unable to enter the