i would tell her thank you. >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. >> a nation heartbroken over senseless tragedy. >> they sounded like bangs but then our teacher kept saying, they're just fireworks. this time, an elementary school in texas. >> a decision was made this was a barricaded subject situation, there was time to retrieve the keys. >> they don't do anything. >> they didn't do anything. >> they just around the whole time. >> of course it was not the right decision. >> the sounds broken. our hearts are broken. >> just days after shootings in new york and california.

>> we'll be doing? >> they filled our kids again. >> enough is enough. >> can anything be done to stop the -- the only way to stop a bag with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> the time for us to stop the next mass shooting in this country is right now. >> is the moment to reform gun laws? >> you know, it's easy to go to politics. >> as a society, we need to do a better job. >> when in god's name i was going to stand up to the gun lobby? >> will americans ever be able to find common ground? >> our union isn't imperfect, it's severely broken. >> it just keeps happening and nobody does anything about it. >> enough is enough. an 11th hour special with 70 ruhle starts now.

>> good evening once again, i'm stephanie ruhle. this is been a hugely challenging week. one that started with a mass shooting in texas that broke our nations heart and is ending with that very same state showcasing the heart of the problem, a massive in our event. we've been covering the breaking news around the clock, every detail, every -- every tear. -- tonight, we will pull back the lens and do something a little bit different. for the next hour, i will be joined by two people that i know and respect very much, mathew tao, texas transplant and founder of our country over party, who left his role as a political strategy it is to try to find solutions to bring our country together. and nicole -- founder and ceo of sandy hook promise, whose life work as a gun safety advocate was born after losing her son dylan in a mass shooting that took place at his school ten years ago.

throughout the next hour, we will be joined by experts in gun culture, safety, child psychology, american culture and history. together, we will break down what is happening, why and, most importantly, what is next? the message across the country is loud and clear, enough is enough. the question is, where do we go from here? we will begin this evening's broadcast with ryan boozy, a former firearms executive who helped build one of the world's most iconic gun companies. he's also the author of gunfight, by battle against the industry that radicalize america. ryan, thank you for joining us, matthew and nicole, welcome. you, ryan, and matthew, you are both gonna nurse. what does it mean to call yourself a gun owner 20 years ago, and what does it mean today? help us understand what the funds can control? >> my personal definition has not changed, but the gun

culture in and around people like me has changed an awful lot. there is a healthy part of a culture, a safe and responsible and decent part of computer, that i grew up with and other americans did. when you have a deep cultural connection to something, and nefarious force like the nra can figure out how to tap into that with fear and conspiracy, and make people do irrational things about it. i don't think my culture of hunting and shooting with my boys, insisting on safety and responsibility, not the finding ourselves by guns, and really not okay with these armed radicals, what we call couch commandoes and fiscally irresponsible proliferation of assault weapons everywhere, we are not okay with that. that has not changed for me, but has definitely changed for our country. it is a frightening revelation, very frightening. >> it sure has. in the last week and a half, two mass shootings, 31 people

killed. i saw a piece that you wrote, entitled, the gun industry, i knew that we would end appear. you were a gun industry executive for a year's. how did you know that we had and appear, explore this to us. >> 15 years ago, things like tactical gear, vest, assault rifles could not be displayed on trade shows. that was not law, that was a self imposed norm. when people asked why that was, the stuff that buffalo shooter wore, tactical gear that the uvalde war, these are so offense, they could not be displayed at the industry's own trade shows. when asked, people knew that it was dangerous to clifford these things in society. these are not the things that we want to sell. in other words, there was a known form of decency in the dna of, air quotes here, -- that has changed so much. when the nra decided to go all in on this hatred of fear and division and won them elections.

and agenda took people to the near boiling point. that is the exact same thing that sells guns. you need to understand that if you think back to the most tumultuous time of your life, say january 1st, 2022 about january 7th, 2021, all the things that went on and that incredible 12 or 13 months, you had hate, you had counterattacks, you had racial strife -- we had george floyd's murder, with black lives matter, in other words, the most hateful, divisive unbelievable time in america. that corresponds to the highest gun sales rate in the united states ever. the nra figured out how to get this to the boiling point and drive gun sales, and drive people to do irrational things. we cannot hope to survive as a democracy if we keep doing this to ourselves. we got to ratchet it back. >> they don't just drive gun sales, they dry policy. you understand the nra's playbook better than anyone. they hold their convention in

texas today. at best, it is tone-deaf. at worst, it is the most craven. how has the nra, which really only represents a portion of gun owners, not even a portion of republicans, take us through how they were able to block gun reform at every possible turn. when it gets dark, and how does it work? >> it started back in 77. there was a particular nra convention. nra leaders sat down in a closed room after columbine and said, are we going to be part of the solution or do this middle finger, hell no, let's see up or we can go? there were political decisions made in that room that said that i think we could benefit by saying how no. -- by saying with my code that hans. when your brand is not only know but hell no, no matter how

bad it gets, does not matter if kids are murdered in sandy hook -- i grew up in and a credibly small town. it does not matter if the people in our small town that i lived in were shot and killed in las vegas or parkland, or sutherland springs, or the pulse nightclub, or virginia tech -- the answer is, hell no, every time. when something happens in uvalde and the brand of your organization is, how no. when somebody says are you going to cancel your convention? it is, hell no. this is what our politics is. our local school boards have this invested. everything that you care about, every single thing, women's reproductive rights, climate policy, it is all invested by this all or nothing politics at the nra figured out 15 or 18 years ago and loaned to the political right. here we are, and kids are dying because of it. it is so incredibly sad. >> matthew dowd, you have written about gun culture myths, myths in america, help us

understand the. >> the first thing i want to say is that i want to agree with ryan. the problem that we have is that this debate goes into one of two directions, and the vast majority of the country is left out of it. it's either the direction of people that say that nobody should have a gun, guns are bad, anybody that carries a gun is crazy, whatever. unlike my experience or ryan's, which is you bring your kids up, we show them how to use a gun, use it for hunting or target practice, that is what you do. you teach them safety and do all that. then there is the other group, 10% of the country, they say guns for everybody, anytime, any type of gun. the great chunk of the country is at the middle of this, which is i think people should be able to carry a gun responsibly and bring their children up, do whatever they want responsibility, but i want gun reform.

some of the myths that exist in our propagated very effectively by the nra have sunk route in. i actually think the nra does not matter anymore, because they put a virus in the middle part of america. if the nra disappeared, this fire still sits in america. if donald trump won away, the virus that he put into america 's those it's here, so you have to extract that virus that has been put there by these people. it is now sitting solidly inside. some of the myths -- somehow, more guns create more safety. every single data point says that is wrong. not only used by state, where there is gun restrictions, there is less violence, but you look at country at the country. we as america have the second most gun violence in the world at the personal. we had the most guns per 100 people anywhere, twice as many as the second country anywhere in the world. that is one myth that has been

propagated by the nra and is a complete lie. the other is that guns keeper freedom. it is because we have guns and gun culture is why we are free. the fascinating is that the folks rink tyson freedom in the world, we are number 17 in the world. but the country's highs on freedom in the world do not have gone cultures. the ideas of freedom preserved by the ability of somebody to own 162 guns or an assault rifle is a myth that has been propagated again and again by the nra. i think it is absolutely accurate that what the nra does -- i think the nra started off as a gun safety -- i remember when i bought my first gun, you go and sign up for the nra because part of that is that you've got to learn guns if the courses. that changed. that changed over time, part of it was because they began to be funded solely by gun

manufacturers. i think the and are a and whether it happened around columbine or not before the, fundamentally change this. but i think right now to me, today, with the nra is doing in houston is awful. but even if the nra disbanded completely, the virus exists in america. >> nikole, what do you think? >> i am fascinated by this idea of the virus and the data and myths. there is so much data. everything you said is so true about how this isn't is true. the data points to evidence in the opposite direction. however, i am fascinated to hear from you too can owners, how do we breakthrough that fear that the nra has propagated across everyone, in terms that you need to have more guns, you need to protect yourself from home invasions -- what is the way to reach that middle part of america that isn't picking up on this? how do we give them cover and reach them?

i don't think the data arguments are working. how do we combat fear with a different set of emotions and give them different options to take? >> ryan? >> i think people like matthew and i have to stand up and be examples. the fact that the matter is that this works. it is much more fragile -- i agree with everything that matthew said, there is a virus here, like trump, it is like the coronavirus. if the source goes away, the wind is the blowing, it is the rushing across the country. people like us, responsible gun owners, people that believe in decency and gun reform, we have to stand up and be examples. the truth is that the nra has been exceptionally adept at keeping responsible people quiet. they are loud, they are bullies, they take the mic, they scream, they throw, they castigate people, they trailed my family

-- they have done incredibly, incendiary things to me and people i know to keep reasonable people quiet. we just have had not had enough courage to stand up and say, no, there are a lot of us that did not believe this. there is a different path. i think they are more fragile than they think. the response to my book tells me, we were worried for my safety when the book came out, as you might guess. but the opposite has happened, i get hundreds and thousands of messages from these gun orders that say, thank you, i am not like that. i can't take it anymore. this is gone off the rails. we have to get those people lifted up. >> okay, but you don't even have to be as outspoken and do the work that you all are doing. matthew, there are plenty of republicans that think it is absolutely insane that anyone should be able to buy an ar-15, but do they not care enough to stop it? they care about other voting issues more, and so they let it slide? >> i think part of it is a little bit complicated, because i think part of it is cultural and what happens is,

republicans and the nra are very adept and appealing to the cultural inclination to own a gun, right? when it becomes a coastal argument against guns and not a middle of america about common sense gun reforms, if we lose that voice, then it becomes this cultural argument that gets lost in the middle of this. and he rationality gets lost in the middle of this. i think the polling that is clear, 80% of gun owners want gun reform. two thirds of nra members want gun reform. two thirds of republicans want gun reform. but what we have, and this is what i fear is that our democracy is so fragile and unhealthy, today, that we have all of these issues, and guns are the most pointed ones. a vast majority at the country once something done, and it's not getting done.

that goes to a fragile nature of our democracy. it is something that is wrong and our democracy, when 80% of the country want something and it is not happening. that's the do with polarization and other things, but i agree with what ryan said. i think a huge part of this is that we have to give this base the people to responsibly own guns, to be a voice in this debate, to be a voice in this debate to come from people. i do it all the time. i have tons of friends their own guns. they are like, of course we had to have universal background checks. of course we have to have red flag laws. of course nobody needs to own an assault rifle. then they go back their life and do their thing. because they feel like when they are in a debate, the only people screaming at them every day are two sides. it is either the nra side screaming at the socials or companies, or it is this elite side that says, why do you own a gun at all?

that is part of the problem. >> we gotta find a solution, ryan busse, thank you for joining us tonight. matt and nicole, you are staying with us all our. coming up, the impact of gun violence on children in the united states. we will speak with a leading child psychologists about how we treat kids today, the threats that they're facing and what it means for the mental health? later, guns are one of the many issues deeply dividing our issue. matthew just laid it out. we've got to figure out with the growing divisions what we can do to bridge the gap? our 11 hour special, enough is enough is just getting underway on and a very important friday night.

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children fleeing the mass shooting at robb elementary school on tuesday. back in 2020, firearms overtook car accidents as the leading cause of death for children and teenagers in america. the breakdown reveals a meta

health crisis in this country. according to analysis of axios of cdc data, 30 percent of children up to age 19 killed by guns in 2020 died by suicide. let's discuss. genius the night is one of the nation's leading child psychologist, dr. harold koplewicz he's the president of the mind institute, which is dedicated to transforming mental health care for children around the world. doctor, talk to us about the impact that gun violence is having on americans. >> it is really important for us to look at the whole picture. so, gun violence is not only about the tragic deaths, but it is about the trauma that occurs afterwards. we know that kids who witness these kinds of events, have a traumatic response. they have more stress and difficulty with sleep. it happens acutely, and sometimes a month later, it could turn to post-traumatic

stress disorder, which can turn into a very significant psychiatric disorder, which will affect academic functioning and social life, the ability to sleep, eat and participate in the world. we also have some real facts. we know that if you are about five blocks away from where gun violence episodes occur, it will have an effect on you. we also know that gun violence affects kids of color and kids of poverty significantly more than the rest of the population. these are basic facts that we have to start to think about. part of that is that people who can't safely own guns should not be sold guns that really is the bottom line because as long as we are giving guns to inappropriate individuals, you will have lots more gun violence. heck, we know states that have more safety gun rules, have less deaths. this is so black and white, that it is disturbing that we are not taken action. >> we are not seeing our government do anything.

while the government is doing nothing, the internet is hard at work in many cases making our kids more isolated, and in some cases, radicalized. i want to share a bit from my colleague jake ward, who is an nbc technology correspondent, speaking specifically on the impact the internet is having on our kids. watch this. >> the research has shown that for a child isolated from their family or their community in this nation and at this time, social media and the internet is a way for them, in some cases, find community and resources. but in the darkest possible circumstances, it is a place for them to find conspiracy theories, ideologies, communities of like-minded people who might inspire them in some cases to take what are some very dark thoughts and carry them into supportive action. >> harold, how do we deal with this? >> stephanie, we knew before

covid, the rate of suicide attempts and suicide completion among kids from the age of 10 to 24 jumped by almost 50% in the ten years before covid hit. now, we can't know for sure that the internet or social media was the cause, but there is definitely a correlation. we also know the problematic internet usage of kids who use social media 8 to 10 hours a day, if they have an underlying disorder like adhd or depression, that usage is toxic. it is almost like marijuana to kids who have anxiety disorders that produce panic attacks. if you are a parent of a child with adhd or depression, or you have a child who seems more isolated, more socially uncomfortable, then social media and the internet can be a dangerous place.

>> nicole, sandy hook promised teachers recognition and intervention techniques for kids and teens who might be socially isolated or at risk. help us understand what that looks like. because after a shooting like this, you always hear, what were the signs? could we have seen this coming? >> yeah, unfortunately, there is so much evidence to point out that most shootings and most suicides, there are signs given off beforehand. sometimes, we don't always know what we are seeing and how to identify and what actions to take. that is what we teach kids and the adults around them around the country, how to recognize the signs, everything from bullying and isolation up to the cutting, dating violence, substance abuse to suicide and homicide, and how to talk to a trusted adult. we can train every single kid in the country, eventually, i hope, but we still require that behavioral change for everyone to lean in and be those up standards. this is about kids taking control of their own safety and

community, which i would imagine would be a positive benefit to the mental health and wellness. >> matt, do you believe our lawmakers are really looking for solutions because in the last few days, when republicans keep talking about mental health and school security, many of the same republicans are voting against funding schools and putting mental health education. >> well i find amazing is that they are looking at everything but the problem. they are looking at everything, they're pointing out everything. they are putting out that it is because a video games or because of this and this. then you are like, there is a gun sitting in the middle of the room. there like, no, it is because of this. they keep stepping over the gun that is lying in the middle of the room. that is the biggest part of the problem. that is one part of it. the hypocrisy when they talk about mental health problems is amazing to me. greg abbott said that yesterday. greg abbott said that we have a mental health, with a deal with the mental health. i agree to that. greg abbott cut $200 million out of the mental health budget.

60 days ago. there was a budget related to helping kids with mental health, he cut it by almost a quarter of a billion dollars, two months ago. i think that they're doing everything possible to distract from the fundamental problem, which is access to guns by people that should not have guns. that is the fundamental problem. everything else that they point to is a distraction from what is sitting in the middle of the room. >> then, harold, as parents, how do we understand when it is a situation where maybe our own children and teens are suffering? coming out a covid, everyone is suffering. >> i think we should step back for a second and know that every country in the world has children and adults with mental health problems. only the united states has these mass shootings and this remarkable gun violence. as someone who knows something about teenage brains, there is

a reason that we do not let kids in the united states drink until they are 21. there is a reason why hurts and avis those do not let you rent a car until 25 because somehow they figured out that between 18 and 25, you are going to have a lot more problems. you are less likely to wear a seatbelt. your brain is not fully developed. it seems outrageous to me that we don't let a kid drink but an 18-year-old can buy an assault weapon. that does not make logical sense. when something is not logical, something else is taken over. is there some other influence that is making republicans, senators, conservative senators, not be sensible, because i assure you that there is not a parent out there, no matter how they are voting, that does not want to put an assault weapon into an 18-year-old's hand or to a criminal's hand, or to someone that has a history of erratic or violent behavior. that is the part as a parent that really is upsetting. as a child psychiatrist, i feel

i am scapegoating. for the last 25 years, we have been having the same discussion. i am all in favor of having more mental health services for children and teenagers in the united states. we have a shortage of mental health professionals. it is worse now since covid, but that is not what is causing this school shootings and gun violence. >> nicole, i know we are out of time. but i see you're nodding your head. when we have a shooting like we had this week, or last week in buffalo, do you ever question about the work you're doing in the sandy hook promise? do you ever wonder if it's making an impact, because things don't seem to change? >> no, i never question it, because i know for a fact we're having an impact. i know how many lives we've saved. i know how many school shootings we've averted, and i know it's a solution and the model that absolutely works, but it just needs to be scaled. it's about that. it's about getting that teaching out to more people. it can't prevent everything, but we can certainly decrease the number, significantly. >> thank you so much. nicole, matthew, don't go anywhere. doctor harold koplewicz, thank

you so much. you always make us smarter every time you're here. >> when we come back, guns, this is the issue. they're just the tip of the iceberg. when you dig into the deep divisions of america, abortion, the pandemic, culture wars, a look at why the united states is so divided, and if we can even begin to fix the problem, when our 11th hour special, enough is enough, continues. enough is enough, continues. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour. it's time to get outdoorsy. and deliit's hot.your door and wayfair's got just what you need. we need a rug. that's the one, yeah.

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because i just really worry that there is something rotting in the american core, that is making us numb to the slaughter. i think we're on the verge of just thinking that this is normal, and losing our sense of outrage. >> something rotting in the american core. a huge part of the problem comes from the polarization we see in our country today, and it's not just gun safety. americans are divided on abortion, education, masks, vaccines, everything associated with a pandemic. as time magazine once put it, our nation is still divided along the battle lines of the civil war. so how do we fix it? let's welcome, presidential historian, douglas brinkley. he's also a history professor at bryce university. and msnbc political analyst britney patrick cumingham, she was a member of president obama's 21st century precinct policing task force.

doug, it is stuff to hear a u.s. senator talk about the rotting core in america. how sick and divided are we as a country, when you look, historically speaking? >> we're extremely sick and divided. it's not a civil war situation. we were divided in the 1960s, and late 70s. we pulled back together a little bit, to the point that after the newtown massacre in december of 2012, there was some hope after sandy hook elementary school that there might be some gun legislation. some republicans were in the mix and almost got down but not quite. but as you know, it's deeply divided now. we can't seem to heal. the hope is somebody like senator chris murphy, who this week has been very articulate about gun control and getting rid of assault weapons, one kind of another, he's been staying on the case for decades. the hope is that newtown and uvalde, like bookends, ten years of all these mass killings, that this will be a moaning moment will do

something. but alas, as you point out, stephanie, so many other, you know, divisive trigger points in american political and social life that one is worried that this is gonna be game-changing enough. we've got to get 73% of the american public to mandate after uvalde, that we do something with getting rid of assault weapons, sectarian large magazines, and having better school security. putting more money into mental illness, but alas, in a midterm election like this, it doesn't seem likely. >> brittani, that's one of the questions people are asking. how do you get americans fired up enough to care more? i was talking about this earlier this week with jay johnson and eric holder. and i was very surprised. they both said that america needs what they called, an emmett till moment. americans should actually see the horrific images from these shootings. what do you think of that? >> you know, when i was in college, i actually did my

senior thesis on the historical significance and the cultural impact of emmett till. and most certainly, i could not anticipate how relevant that work and that study would be to the rest of my life and my work. i named that paper, so the world would see what they've done to my boy, which is what the indomitable mamie till said about her decision to have that open casket moment, to allow the world to see emmett till's, bloodied, bruised, broken body, to have broken parts take that photograph that went across the entire world. and clearly, she made a decision that was deeply sacrificial, to try and stop the flames. thankfully, a simmering civil rights movement that would it not for that, i certainly wouldn't be sitting here talking to you. we also need to reckon with the fact that even with that picture, going a version of viral in the 1950s that it did, the man who murdered emmett till was still acquitted. caroline bryant, the woman who told the lie that emmett whistled at her, that cost

emmett his life, she has since come, and said that that was a lie. and says, that she was able to deal without any repercussions. the emmett till memorial is still de-faced multiple times a year to this day. and it wasn't until the year of our lord, 2022, when congress passed, and the president signed the emmett till and lynching act into existence. and at most, if that is a symbolic-based of paper. so for all that sacrifice, we certainly saw movement come from people who were already oppressed in this country. but we didn't necessarily see the kind of impact on people who should have been shamed into further action. and i think that we have to be very careful but, what we are asking parents to do, who has to excavate their deepest grief, to sow the show these pictures to the world. of course, they're open to make whatever trace they want, but in this moment of horrifying grief for each of them, we should be very, very careful about what we are asking them to do. and we shouldn't be asking them to do more than the politicians who went on vacation this week. >> nicole, you know, i've gotta

ask you. i mean, people in your position, who have lost their children, our government failed them. our country fill them. not them, you. so when you hear people talking, saying let's see those images, what can you think of that? >> i think, you know, stephanie, i'm not personally a fan of that. i couldn't do that. i'm not as brave as emmett deals mothers was. i also have a significant concern not only about, you, know emmett till obviously died in 1955. and the quality of movies and culture, people, i don't even think would be as shocked to see a pile of dead children. you don't, i've had to deal with this conspiracy theorists, hoaxes, for the last ten years, this is show us --

and even if we did, i don't think they're still believe it. i think to immune to that sort of violence, because we're too used to it anyway. but also, there's just no way to -- i want people to remember my son for what it was when he was alive. i don't want my surviving son, my mother, dylan's grandmother, only faced forever on the internet, with the image of his body shot. you know, he was shot five times, four times in the torso, one in the back of the head. no one needs to see that. i don't want to see that. and that's not how i want my son remembered. so that's why i work to protect his photos. >> well, i will say, nicole, you are plenty brave. matthew, do you think the country is becoming numb and callous, or is it just given up our on our lawmakers just doing anything? >> well, i'd like to speak to the idea of division in the country. if the country, actually the voters, are not divided, the voters are not divided. what's divided in the country's two parties, one party who wants nothing to do with solving the problems, the republican party. and once nothing to do with coming to a compromise on all of these fundamental issues. if you look at all of the data, 80% of the country wants gun

reform. 70% of the country was fine with the covid protocols and getting vaccinated. and all 75% of the country wants to keep roe v. wade as it is. so it's not like the country is fundamentally divided. the country is pretty decided on these fundamental issues. so what's the problem? well, the problem is, the political system as it exists today, doesn't allow right now, and this is why i'm very concerned about our democracy. the political system does not allow for majority rule. so, what we have today is a tyranny of the minority. and that's a fundamental break, a fundamental break in our system, where we have a vast public, who's pretty united on this, and obviously, you have 25 or 30% of people that are off on some crazy island. but you have a vast majority of the country aligned on this. and so, the problem isn't division within the country.

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our conversation, focused on solutions. brittany, we've got to find places to compromise. the greatest opportunity for social and economic mobility is through education. but look at it right now. battles, learning loss from covid, schools closed, what can you say in school, what can be taught in school, and now, we're talking about arming our teachers and hardening our schools. a good safe education is everything. is there a way we can find a path here? >> i used to be a third grade teacher, as i think you know. and i cannot think of anything that would be more costly, that would be more incorrect in this moment. than to arm teachers. look, we already have a system of an equitable education. putting arms in the hands of teachers, who are already dealing with so much in the situation, who are already underpaid and overworked, who already have dealt with covid,

certainly not the path we need to be going down. you heard it said before on the program, more guns, very simply, does not equal more safety. at the end of the day, i think that the opportunity we really have in the classroom, and through the lens of education is actually to uproot the culture of violence. i agree with the speaker that spoke earlier, this question of division and polarization is actually the wrong one to be asking. i often think that polarization is really a misnomer, for the threat that power and privilege perceives, when marginalized people finally have their turn, and their say. the fact of the matter is, this is not just two ends of the spectrum, and two equal but opposite ends. we're talking about folks who are dealing and trafficking, and the politics of supremacy and exclusion. or folks like us, who are trying to ensure that equity is actually the name of the game. so we really are not talking about polarization at the core. we are talking about an american culture of violence. we cannot deal with the fact that a culture of violence that

is deeply american, pervades absolutely everything, without dealing with the fact that america is a colonial project. you can't, honestly, talk about america being a colonial project, if you do not deal with the genocide of indigenous people, and the enslavement of african people. you cannot deal with those things, if the school districts and libraries are cow towing to parents, who refuse to have even the 16 90 project on the library shelves, let alone being taught. there is no possible way to uproot the culture of violence that is so deep within our soil. anything less is just breaking off the branches, and allowing things that we know harm us, to continue to bloom on that same tree. but we have the opportunity now to take back our schools, to take back our classrooms, to take back education in such a way that we prepare and informed citizenry, young people who are confident, young people who build communities with each other, young people who operate in love, and young people who understand our history well enough, never to repeat it again. and that includes, perpetuating

a white supremacist, patriarchal culture of violence, that continues to harm every single community in this country. >> doug, this may sound naive, but give us a history lesson. i saw beto o'rourke speaking today outside the nra convention, and he was extending an olive branch. he said, you're not our enemies. we can find a way to work together. is there is some sort of olive branch that can be extended? can love be the answer here, because clearly, digging into the division ain't it. >> it has to be the answer. you know, with a national rifle association, it was created in the 1871. one it was supposed to train civil war veterans on marksmanship of new weapons. how did we go from an nra that did that to an nra that in the time, and to the point, they were opposed to the black panthers arming themselves, and put in the nra went with a white power structure of california in the 1960s, when ronald reagan was governor.

you know, now the nra, and others, gun owners clubs, they're ubiquitous. they're actually fundraising tonight off of uvalde. they say, fear in white america, that and rural white america, that different people are gonna come into your community, with guns. and truth, we've had very little terror attack since 9/11. but each of these massacres in schools is a terror attack. and what's profoundly disturbing, stephanie, something like climate change that's hard to get our hands around, that's global. we've got to work with other countries. this is in our country. america is the only industrialized nation with this insane gun policy. there is no way an 18, 19, 20 to 21 year old, should be walking out on their birthdays, getting these semi automatic weapons. ar, you know, fifteens, are not training marksman. it's spraying bullets a madly in every direction. you barely touch the trigger,

and they go out. they are killing machines. yet, we've had not just newtown, but las vegas, orlando, charles town, when will it end? yet you look at the political culture right now in america, this midterm election here, i don't see any big movement to tackle this heinous problem of the gun lobby being so powerful. >> well, we gotta start somewhere. doug brinkley, brittani, thank you both. when we come back, matt and nichole will give final thoughts. nichole will give fina thoughts

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thoughts. matthew and nichole, we are ending a truly horrible, horrible week. where do we go from here? how do we take one step forward? matthew, republicans are pushing widely unpopular gun policy, abortion policy. yet, there's a good chance they win the midterms. how do we get better? >> so, first, i think this hour has been a great hour, which i think, it's a great advancement. and i have to say, thank you, nicole, for your hard work, and rising from awful tragedy to do the things you do, and stephanie, for having this show. i think it's an important step that we have to keep talking about. in my view, the fundamental thing is leaders never lead what they follow.

and we have to lead them to the right place. and the right place is common decency for the common good. we have to get rid of leaders who don't belive in that, and put people in place that believe in common decency for the common good. that'll fix it. >> nicole? >> just kind of echoing what matthew said, i think also, this is an interesting moment in time right now. there are conversations being had. you know, we talked about bookends, sandy hook and uvalde, i really hope this is that ending bookend, and there's good conversations happening right now, we just need to continue to ask our politicians in d. c., to lean in, and have these conversations, don't just go to your party lines, the second amendment is an important right, but it's not designed to kill children. so, what can we do to build common ground and that's something that works? >> please keep asking our politicians. don't let this week pass. don't forget about this tragedy. ask the questions those politicians don't want to

answer, the running the clock. don't let them do it. love has to be the answer. decency must rule. nicole hockley, matthew dowd, thank you for joining me on this important friday night, at the end of a very heavy week. and from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of monday. be good. this is a special two hour edition of the katie phang show, live from msnbc headquarters in new york. we have lots of news to cover and lots of questions to answer. so let's get started. republicans do not think that gun reform will stop mass shootings. but arming a school librarian, will? we tell you about the latest bizarre proposal. plus, donald trump's legal troubles deepen as a special grand jury in georgia gets set to hear from as many as 50 witnesses about his attempts to overturn the 2020 election. our panel is here to tell us