away from the situation. >> there's also give you comfort in knowing the prison that their cauldron isn't is no four seasons? >> exactly. this sunday, the tragedies in texas. another mass shooting. another grieving community. >> you look at this girl. >> another political debate about what to do about guns in america from democrats. >> what are we doing? why are you here? it's not to solve, if not to solve a problem as existential

as this? >> no amount of bloodshed seems to be enough. ♪♪ >> from republicans. >> society what they want to do in their particular state. >> if you want to stop. ♪♪ violent crime ♪♪ >> the proposals the democrats have, none of them would have stopped this. >> plus, growing questions about why police on the scene took so long to stop the shooter. >> of course, it was not the right decision. the wrong decision. period. >> we will hear from cory booker and pat mclaurie and a former police chief the rescue attempt went to terribly wrong with the state senator who represents uvalde, a former mayor of baltimore, a parkland parent of a child killed in that school shooting. to our panels. core until, ashley parker and ali vitale. welcome to sunday in a special edition of ""meet the press." >> this is a special edition of "meet the press" with chuck todd.

good sunday morning. i hope you're managing to enjoy a bit of this memorial day weekend. sadly, though, it's become our uniquely american ritual of worlds after another tragedy. thoughts and prayers. nothing we can do. no law would have stopped this. the real problem is mental illness. if only the victims had been armed. more thoughts and prayers. how do we allow an 18-year-old, in this case, salvadore ramos, to buy assault rifles and accumulate more than 1600 rounds of ammunition, all legally, mind you. we no longer have a politics that can meet these crucial moments that we face. the deaths of 19 children and two teachers in uvalde, texas, will it change things? unlikely. the murder of first graders at sandy hook didn't. no member of congress has been voted out of office for being too pro-gun. not one!

so until the majorities claim they want tough background checks and assault weapons off the street, vote like they mean it, you can expect to hear more calls for thoughts and prayers and that's it. because this current version of the republican party is being held hostage by a vocal minority obsessed with an absolute right that does not exist. in the days of following this massacre, deeply troubling details of this botched police response have emerged. here is the time line as we now know it according to police right now. 11:28. after shooting his grandmother, 18-year-old salvador ramos drives his car into a ditch and emerges and shoots at two people outside of a nearby funeral home. 11:30. the first 911 call. an officer heads to the area unknowingly driving past the suspect. 11:31. ramos enters the grounds of robb

elementary school and fires multiple rounds outside the school. 11:33, police say he enters the school through a propped open door and starts firing at least 100 rounds. originally, police say an armed officer engaged ramos upon entry. >> a brave school district resource officer that approached him and engaged him. >> but now. >> he was not confronted by anybody. we clear the record on that. >> reporter: 11:35, uvalde police officers enter the school and are grazed by bullets from the gunman. 12:03, 19 officers are in the hallway. the first 911 call comes from inside the classroom with the shooter, a student reports multiple people dead. >> a lot of injuries? >> officers do not enter the classroom. the school district chief of police assess children are no longer at risk despite the calls coming into 911 reporting students still alive in the classroom.

>> of course it wasn't a right decision. it was the wrong decision, period. >> outside, concerned parents beg officers to do more. >> get across the street! get across the street! >> you know that there are kids, right? >> reporter: 12:15, border patrol tactical squad arrives but are told by local law enforcement to wait to go after the gunman. according to two senior federal law enforcement officials. for the next 35 minutes, several more 911 calls are made by two students inside the room on which operators can hear shots being fired. but little else is known about this period. 12:50, law enforcement uses keys from the janitor to open the classroom door and kill the suspect. joining me now is texas state senator roland gutierrez whose district includes uvalde. senator, welcome to "meet the press," sir. >> thank you, chuck. >> i know you've spent a lot of

time with the families of the victims. just relay some of the conversations that you've had, some of the -- some of the frustrations, the anger, the grieving, whether it's on the response time or the fact this happened in the first place. >> chuck, this has been an incredible episode over the last three days. these families are destroyed. yesterday, i met with yet another family and the father outside of his home, he couldn't let go and i couldn't let go of him. we both were just crying at the time. it was so, so devastating. that particular conversation, their little girl had been shot in the back with one bullet, in the kidney area. she likely bled out, according to the first responder. who would know what would happen to that little girl had officers showed up timely, had they gone in timely. so i'm not blaming anybody, but

we have to have accountability as to what happened and who was there at what times and which agencies take operational control when. those are big questions for me going forward. >> do you think someone should be held criminally accountable for the poor response? >> listen. i think certainly for me in texas going forward, i don't know that there should be criminal negligence or anything like that or criminal accountability. but we have to make sure that this never happens again, because you and i both know there is probably going to be one of these instances happen again in this state and others. >> yeah. >> we have to learn from this, for sure. >> is this a gun problem or a security problem? >> we need changes. oh, this is absolutely a gun problem. and it's all of those things. abbott thinks it's a mental

health problem? sure it is. then go fund it properly. we are dead last in mental health funding in the united states. you know, we have got a crisis of infinite proportions in this united states. at the end of the day if we don't have the accessibility to militarized weapons, this doesn't happen. just like it doesn't happen in the rest of the world. they still have mental illness in england, asia. go ahead. i'm sorry. >> 15 years you've been in elective office in the state of texas in the house and the senate, and i'm actually been really focused on the last 15 years of gun legislation in the state legislature and astonishing amount of lifting of regulations on guns has taken place over the last 15 years. i'm putting on the screen just what has been done in 2021 to weaken gun laws in the state of texas. can you explain why there is this fervent attempt every legislative session to find some

way to send a message that, hey, we are going to weaken gun regulations in this state? whether it's a hotel, a car. i mean, all sorts of bizarre pieces of legislation that gets thrust upon you guys in the legislature. >> you know, i can't imagine what the fealty is to the nra. i only suppose it's money to fund their campaigns. i say they. being my colleagues in the house and senate. at the end of the day what has happened over these years has been simply preposterous. culminating last session with their open carry bill. not one law enforcement agency -- everybody in texas, every law enforcement agency said don't do this. i gave a closing argument on that bill. i said because of this bill, kids are going to die. i never thought that that bit of hyperbole was going to happen in

my community. i never thought. >> what are you going to say to the president today if you get a chance? what do you want him to do? >> well, i want him to comfort the people that he is going to visit with. that is first and foremost. i want him to assure as i have that we will have the necessary resources for them going forward. no family in the united states should have to go through what these folks are going through. these people are destroyed. they lost their 10-year-old children. some of these folks, they lost their only child. it's horrible. secondly, to make sure that we have the resources we need going forward. we talked about a grant already to raze this school. we are looking at things to try to make people whole. you and i know we will never

be able to bring these children back. and so he is doing what he needs to do. i appreciate all of the effort. it's more than we have seen from our governor. >> senator gutierrez, again, who represents the district, i know you're from san antonio, but you represent uvalde there. we appreciate you coming on and spending a few minutes with us. thank you. >> thank you, chuck. we want to broaden our discussion a little bit and we will continue about guns and school safety about three people whose lives and jobs have been dramatically impacted by gun violence. here are my guests. tony lost his daughter gina in the parkland school shooting. in 2018. he has pushed for increased background checks and for a federal red flag law. look. i'd like to start with you, cedric. i want a quote here from an active shooter prevention expert that "the washington post" tabbed and what he said there and break down what happens in the respond here. he said, quote. i don't care if it is the deputy

dawg cartoon guy, he goes in and he stops the shooter. that's part of the job. you've got a ballistic vest. you know what the kids have. crayons. you are duty-bound to do something, if someone is telling to you stay outside and disobey that order. is he correct? >> well, here what has to happen is this. in those events, and certainly we found this out post-columbine. officers on that scene who arrive first, you go inside that building, you follow that gunfire. the whole intention is move that gunfire away from the innocent victims who are innocent and defenseless and you move that gunfire towards you. you have an opportunity to win that gun battle. there is no other option. there is nothing else to talk about. that is what we have to do today. >> it looks, in hindsight, you had a bunch of first responding officers who feared they were out-gunned. is that what you think happen? >> i don't know what went in their heart of hearts when you

respond to that scene, that is your training and what you've been trained to do the last 23 years so that is what you do, whether you go in there. you take whatever you got in there with you and you go in there and deflect that gunfire away from you. these innocent babies had absolutely nothing, nothing! so it is your responsibility. it is my responsibility, if i'm the incident commander or i'm the last person hired, i got to go in there. i got to deflect that gunfire. i got to follow that and find that target and i got to neutralize that target as quickly as i can. until other help come. that is what i was sworn to do and that is what i get paid to do. is it dangerous? yes. but it comes with the territory. >> tony you've been advocated, figuring out ways to give more access to security assessments for schools. explain what you think could be the answer for schools. >> well, it's a multifaceted problem, chuck.

parkland looks at securing the campus. better mental health screenings and programs, and finally, if you choose to own one, firearm ownership. we have worked with the u.s. secret service and its national threat assessment service to go around the country and educate and train local school staff and local law enforcement and local mental health professionals on the results of their studies which are behavioral threat assessment process. this threat assessment process identifies children who are exhibiting troubling behavior and then it gets them the help they need long before they resort to violence. that is the key is being pro-active and preventive. and then we also need to have a monitoring piece we monitor them and make sure they are on track for the best possible outcome. >> we have had two 18-year-olds the last month. okay? legally purchase these weapons. this is not illegal. legally do this. would this have prevented this? >> well, in the new york case,

he was subject to a threat assessment but they failed on the monitoring piece. so that might have helped stop that. the shooter this week in uvalde, which we feel for the families, without a doubt, that shooter had some information that he put out online and if someone had come forward and mentioned that, we might have seen some intervention before the tragic loss of life. >> i invited you on because this gun problem we have in america is -- we focus on it when there are mass shootings. but it's every day. there is not a city in america -- there is something, i think, only two states where gun violence is down, not up. >> it is a horrible problem of gun violence and, you know, sometimes i feel like with the division in our country, we want to talk about is it the violence in our cities or the mass shootings? it's all of it. you know? it is dealing with a complex problem with complex solutions.

i think part of it starts with us owning who we are as americans. i think sometimes we need to find mirrors that work in our country because too many people look in the mirror and see -- they think they see someone who values life but if you say you value life and you let these babies die and do nothing and you can, your mirror is broken. so i really think we need to start looking for ways. parents and the people who have been impacted by the daily violence and these mass shootings to come together and work with our elected officials on some real common sense gun reform. >> i want to ask all of you, though. cedric, is this a gun problem or a security problem? >> it's a combination of it all but certainly a gun problem in our country and have to get our arms around this and particularly assault rifles that are out there. you're talking about high velocity 3,000 feet per second tools of nothing but

destruction. what is the purpose of them being out on our streets? police, quite frankly, being a former police chief twice, that is one of the most -- if anything keeps me up at night, it's knowing that the possibility of my officers and people in the public are going to have to come in contact with these weapons, this type of weaponry. there needs to be a real conversation around these assault rifles and how they are so easily, easily, you know, attained by anybody who wants them. you don't have to go to a gun store, chuck. you can find them on the street at this very moment in any city in the usa. >> do you feel that law enforcement in baltimore is outgunned? >> i think it is across the country. we are more guns than people in this country so i don't think a way to look at those numbers and

seeing we are outguns and we are outguns if you listen to the polls that the vast majority of us believe in responsible gun ownership. so i know it's possible for us to do better. >> tony, you have to live this tragedy over and over again. something you'll never get over. nobody should expect you to. does the public need to be shaken more by its lapels? my friend jai johnson said they need emmett till picture for the people to see the pictures of what happened to emmett till. is that something you would be comfortable with as a parent? >> personally, no, i would not be comfortable with that. it's terrible to lose your child or to lose your spouse, especially in a school shooting where they should be safe. i would not want those pictures of my daughter out there and made public. sadly, i may not have that choice as the trial of the killer proceeds in florida. but cedric talked about the

power of those weapons. people who shoot them, people who like them should imagine what they do to the bodies of children in schools. we do need to have a look at ourselves. and what we really need to do is stop pandering to the folks on the far right and the folks on the far left. we need to come together as an american family and do something about this problem. congress has yet to act. we have seen president trump and president biden support red flag laws. where is congress acting on this? these are also pro-active. they allow people who are concerned about someone to report them, have due process and then have the weapons removed before they resort to violence and that is what we have to do. >> thank you all for coming. keep in mind, folks, they needed to do dna match to identify some of these bodies in uvalde. thank you all. when we come back, i'll talk to democrat senator cory booker

and former republican governor pats mccormick, on whether there is anything that can be done to help. as we go to break, we remember the 19 children and two teachers who so tragically lost their lives on tuesday. ♪♪

welcome back whenever there is a mass shooting, especially one involving children, we collectively ask will this change anything? experience offers no reason for optimism still bipartisan group of senators have been meeting with the aims of extending background checks and red state fla welcome back. whenever there is a mass shooting, especially one

involving children, we collectively ask will this change anything? experience offers no reason for optimism. still bipartisan group of senators have been meeting with the aims of extending background checks and red state flag laws to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. joining me now are democratic senator cory booker a strong opponent of -- easing of guns and patrick mccorey were also mayors of big cities. we asked each of the senate's 50 republicans every single one of them to join us and none agreed on this weekend. senator booker, let me start with you. it looks like, if anything happens in the senate, it will be very incremental. you have called for some boulder proposals. is this a time for incrementalism to get something or bold if it leads to nothing? >> well, whatever we can get done, if it saves a life, it's worth doing. my colleagues were entering a bipartisan talks. i fully support that but under no illusion that things need to be done that the majority of americans overwhelmingly support republican and democrat that can

create significant safety. we know, even though the cdc has been undermined by the gun lobby where senate republicans won't allow scientific research on gun violence, we know enough to know that there are things we can do that will dramatically lower gun violence. so the question is -- when will we do it? and the problem is, i return again and again to how change has been made in america. when your children died, for example a bombing in birmingham when four little girls died, the nation rallied, movement continued until we demanded change. and it was made. those people who did not make the change, civil rights movement, suffrage movement, paid at the polls. until that happens, we are going to see, at best, incremental change. as far as the federal level, i'm not that hopeful. >> the red flag law or this expanded background check would have done anything. both of these 18-year-olds legally purchased everything

they used, including the massive amount of ammunition and body armor. it feels like you're going to solve a problem that doesn't address the problem. >> well, again, this is not a one-move solution. there must be many things done. but we know background checks make a difference. we know gun licensing supported by the majority of americans make a difference. heck, when connecticut did it, their gun rate fell 40% and when missouri got rid of it, their gun rate violence raised 20%. we are at a point we have to mobilize a greater movement. just expressing regret and sorrow. until the redemptive power of the love for all of our children is greater than the destructive power of the love of our guns and money and power, until that redemptive level of our children turns into action, then nothing is going to change, and so many

generations before us knew this as frederick douglass said. power can see nothing without a demand. if there is no struggle, there is no progress. we have got to begin to hold our congressional leaders more accountable for change. >> what role should the white house play here? looks like right now they are standing back and the president is not involved in these talks because he wants to see what happens. we are getting to a point -- i've heard from a lot of democrats on the road sitting there, voting rights, nothing. gun violence, nothing. abortion rights, nothing. how concerned are you that there is not just an appearance any more. congress is just functionally inseptember in dealing with a major problem, say in this country. >> first of all, when we say nothing has changed it is a defusing comment because things are changing. the kids from parkland and moms

demand action, they have changed dozens and dozens of laws around this country and state after state that is making a difference and that movement is growing. i say it's like judging the 1950s civil rights movement as not -- >> this is decades long, you believe? >> sometimes longer. we just passed legislation to make lynching illegal. took a century to do it. but i think this is a movement that is growing. i think what we need now is not professions of impotency, or despair, we need to have people to choose to do the hard work of galvanizing, these various movements to save our children's lives and have to have people get off the sidelines and get into the arena. >> i want to ask you about police reform. your negotiating partner here tim scott, republican from south carolina, put out an interesting what i would call a backhanded answer on the president's orders.

he said, quote. it was a qualified immunity the sticking point why you guys were in agreement on 87% of this but that was the breaking point? >> no. this is like the issue we are talking about. there was so much wide agreement. i was able to get the majority of police officers in america come together around a bill. the international associations of chiefs of police come together around the bill. we should stop talking about the margins in this country. there are so many issues from police reform to common sense gun safety that the majority of us agree on. that's not enough. there's got to be more active engagement in our precious democracy. we are so out of step with the rest of the world. everything we are talking about today does not happen in other countries. just here because we tolerate it and that is the question. how much endurance do we have for horror and wretchedness and pain and death? we have the ability to change.

we just need more people to be engaged. >> you and i have been on this show way too often after these moments of tragedy. thank you for joining me. i want to start with an old quote. i would like you to help explain to the viewers where the gun rights movement moved? in 1999, wayne la pierre said this in front of the congress. >> we think it's reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. no loopholes for anyone anywhere. >> something has changed from then to now where reasonable regulations were at least openly debated by gun rights officials and now you can't do it now without looking like you're -- the second amendment. what happened? >> actually the nra i could argue is the more moderate gun

group, because if you go to north carolina, and there are grass roots kind of organizations that are making nra actually go more to the right on this issue, and different from what the chairman or the president of the nra has to say. so they are being pushed politically more to the right on this political issue, as president trump was during his term where he was going to institute some policies and then he was pushed to reverse that decision. but, you know, i think we need to be very strategic in how we say this. one thing we can't have is the candidate from the -- the governor candidate in texas saying we need to get rid of all guns or we need to confiscate guns because that makes people back into the corner even more and say, wait a minute, they are trying to take away our guns. there is a reason people are buying guns right now. right now, gun sales are up right now after this tragedy.

>> the gun manufacturers market the tragedy. that is sort of grotesque about this. they are marketing towards this violence in a weird way to increase -- >> there is a feeling out there of institutional breakdown. not just the federal government level but the local and state also, because we're all involved. we were both mayors together at one time. at that time, every one of our shootings that occurred when i was mayor, you take it personally. you go find out the 17 or 18-year-old kid involved in the murder, or who was killed, and you go back, and find out that there was incident that could have been prevented long ago. there was a breakdown in the family, there was alcohol and drugs in the household, there was domestic violence, there was dropout in school, there was violence in the school. >> every country in the world has these issues but they don't have the easy access to the weapon.

>> i don't know if every country in the world has what we are seeing of an institutional breakdown in all of our organizations. it's like spaghetti right now. no one is talking at each other at the local, state, and federal level. we saw at the shooting we had all different police agencies come and they are not communicating with each other. even with the 911 call. that's at the micro level. at the that m&a crow level, there is a disjointed operation of that policy. at the macro level, there is a disjointed operation of that policy. . and what we have right now from a business standpoint, i'd look at it and go, we got angry young men who are doing most of these killings, whether it be in chicago or whether it be in mass killings. it's angry young men. we got to target our resources toward these angry young men that you and i have seen killed or doing the killing and then somehow prevent them from getting this -- these weapons of mass destruction. >> well, i want to get to the weapon. kevin kramer, who is a republican senator from north dakota, basically, he has been

one of the few that sort has admitted the political reality. he could support the most modest effort and maybe raising the minimum age of buying a weapon of war from 18 to 21 and he would lose a primary. that is the bottom line why elected republicans are afraid of touching gun regulation? they are willing to talk red flag laws and these other things, but they won't touch the gun -- >> when i was a mayor 14 years and i reduced the murder rate by over 50% due to tough law enforcement and mentoring and other programs. i lost a primary two weeks ago to a congressman who had a gun in his front trousers in a commercial. >> in every tv ad. >> in every tv ad. that was a more powerful message to the constituency voting in that primary. he was tougher, i was weaker. yet, my record of accomplishment in fighting crime is unsurpassed. >> it's about the gun but not

about the record? >> it's a symbolism. it's a symbolism. right now, we got people who don't trust right now the justice system. we are letting criminals go. you see they are letting criminal go after crime after crime after crime and people say i'm taking this in my own hands and i'm going to protect my family and my home. absolutely. the violence is a culture problem that this country must face and it's got to be common sense. as i agree with the senator. we have got to come up with some common sense solutions. i'll give you one quick example. >> very quick. >> our sheriffs in north carolina can do a red flag check on any golden globe owner because they know who the trouble makers are. so they can turn down someone. i had to fight to keep the power of that as a governor. >> thank you. i appreciate both of you joining me. when we come back, we have heard a lot this morning about the epidemic of mass killings in the united states. is there any reason this will be

any different? that is coming up. but she can handle pickup, even when her bladder makes a little drop-off. because candice has poise, poise under pressure and poise in her pants. it takes poise.

here's candice... who works from home, and then works from home. but she can handle pickup, even when her bladder makes a little drop-off. because candice has poise, poise under pressure and poise in her pants. it takes poise. what's it like having xfinity internet? it's beyond gig-speed fast. so gaming with your niece, has never felt more intense. hey what does this button do? no, don't! we're talking supersonic wi-fi.

three times the bandwidth and the power to connect hundreds of devices at once. that's powerful. couldn't said it better myself. you just did. unbeatable internet from xfinity. made to do anything so you can do anything. whoa.

welcome back panelist panelists here. ali is joining me and the governor pat mccrory is back with you, and also chief, "washington post." during the break, senator booker was actually reading our minds because he talked about all of the advertising that features guns and that is exactly what we put together. this is just how important guns are to republican primary politics. these are ads airing around the country right now. >> i'm willing to do whatever it takes to return this country back to its former glory. >> in 2022, i'm going to blow away the democrats socialist agendas. >> you don't know who has got what in their purse! lipstick? an iphone?

or maybe a smith and wesson 38. >> ali, kevin kramer, i think, sort of said it best, right, which this is all about the primary voter. >> it is always about the primary voter. i think this is a key litmus test when you look at the primaries how pro-gun are you? you can't be too pro-gun in a republican primary. i think the structure if you're in an election but not everyone in washington is and i think it speaks to the climate on the hill especially where i spend my time that none of these 50 republican senators wanted to come on and talk to you at a time when, in theory, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell blessed this effort toward something bipartisan. and the thing i looked at is mcconnell's words. this is a guy who says what he means and carefully says what he says. an outcome directly related to what happened here in texas this time. you look at the way this group is bipartisanly breaking up the issues.

you're looking at school safety and background checks and red flag laws. but like if the mood on the hill is so unoptimistic, there can be all of the blessings you want for these conversations and just matters of what actually happens. >> i think when you look at that advertisements that are happening out there, we can't decouple sort of what is going on with guns from what we see as the nationalist movement in this country. chuck, it is frightening to think that we are mixing easy gun access with the rise of nationalism and the toxic sort of hate, grievance politics, replacement politics, and we are mixing sort of easy access to assault weapons in this toxic mix. my god. this cannot be the way forward for this country. it's not a right or left problem, but look at the nationalist movement you're seeing there. we got grievance politics and we

have replacement theory and let's all grab assault weapons. this cannot be the way forward for this country. >> one thing that is fascinating is the conventional wisdom which used to be true. it used to be this is about the power of the nra. that was potentially true after sandy hook when they were trying to do manchin saying if the nra had not come out against they would try to get something doing would try to get something done, but now, weakening through their own making but primaries in the republican party and being an absolutist on the second amendment, is uncodified in that party and galvanizing you see in those commercials. his theory of the case is interesting and interesting to see what happens is that democrats need to try to make this as galvanizing for their side as republicans have for theirs.

and that will be the only way that things change. it's unclear to me and to a number of democrats if democrats can do -- make gun control as powerful as featuring guns in political ads. >> my theory on why mitch mcconnell blessed this small effort is he is worried about suburban voters in philadelphia, phoenix, atlanta, and perhaps charlotte. meaning you got to look like you want to try to solve the problem. your primary opponent is a gun store owner. is this a negative for him in his general election or a positive for him? >> that is going to be interesting because in the primary elections you got to remember the demographics have changed the last 25 years. democrats used to have control of the rural voters in the old days and especially in the south and now it's almost all republican voters. in the rural area, guns are part of culture and i'm talking about law abiding good people where guns are part of the culture. no way with a congressional gerrymandering you know your

votes in the rural areas will you say anything about guns because they are law-abiding citizens, who primarily like guns, and it's part of their hunting, and part of their protection. now the urban centers, especially in georgia and north carolina, you got two senate races now in the general election which i wish i was in, but i'm not. that is life. you've got a different demographics and it's going to be how the soccer mom responds. now one way, the soccer mom is going, i don't like the way this crime is going in our city, and i'm mad at the d.a.s and defund the police, but they also don't like the major shootings. so there is a conflict there. >> can i get back in here quickly? i want to pick up on both points that pat makes. if this is not the year of the angry mom, i don't know what is the year of the angry mom. the truth of the matter is --

>> whether it's cost of living, school safety. >> how about you taking away the right to choose what is happening in my body? take the right to choose -- i think there is an opportunity for democrats. if democrats make this election about anything except sort of what is happening in our schools and what is happening sort of these mass shootings and a woman's right to take care of her body, they make it about health care but democrats have historically won from this because they have been afraid of this issue but now i think it is is a galvanizing issue both choice. quickly. nonpartisan group called the highland project and did a poll of african american women. those african american women who are less likely to vote once they heard about roe v wade being overturned, 60% are more motivated to vote. >> i think if you're going to put this through a gender lens. i look at the message and messenger. what a lot of female lawmakers pointed to after this mass shooting and making a point a lot of the mass shootings are young men and there is gender here that young men have a link to hating women.

so there is a gender link. abortion, gun rights. these are democratic guardrails and whether or not they can galvanize them. >> i will pause the discussion here. as we go to break, as we do every memorial day weekend at "meet the press," we want to remember the american service members who died in the line of duty. since last memorial day, this list includes 13 killed in the terror bombing. ♪♪

welcome back. data download time. becomes routine and calling for more restrictive gun laws echo across the country after this last mass shooting in uvalde. gun control advocates want this time to be different but if something is going to happen, it needs to happen fast. overall the country is more divided on guns than i think people realize. when we have asked this question, 45% fear that politicians will go too far. 50% fear it isn't going far enough.

huge political divide between the two parties essentially polar opposites here. three-quarters of republicans fear that government will be too far. now if you ever want to see action on guns, the time to do it politically is right after one of these shootings. as you can see, right after parkland, you saw 67% wanted more strict laws and after sandy hook and columbine, you see. it fades over time. when you throw out individual ideas, universal background checks, three-day waiting period, all of this stuff is very, very popular, but i want to bring you back to the first polling number i showed you, because three quarters of republicans fear that the government will go too far, and that is what happens in a republican primary when any republican advocates any of these policies. when we come back, president trump at the nra convention changes his opinion on guns. he has become more pro-gun. stay with us.

welcome back.

this was a week that was pretty tough on donald trump politically, but he was at the nra convention and here is what it sounded like on friday when it comes to guns. >> the existence of evil is one of the very best reasons to arm law abiding citizens. >> this won't come as a surprise but donald trump was on another side on that issue not that long ago when he was actually sitting president. this is after parkland. >> well, i'm looking to do background checks. i think background checks are important. we must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms. >> not surprising, donald trump has been on every side of every major social issue over the last years, but no surprise on this.

i think it goes to is he leading his party or he is letting this wing of the party? >> even taking what he did as president. again, there was this hope he could move his party and after parkland, what you had there was what you just showed. there was he brought a group of bipartisan senators in. he turned to the republican senators in the room and he said, you have to stop being petrified of the nra. then guns disappeared. in all of these issues, former president trump has -- on these cultural issues at the end of the day he is afraid of them. >> but, ali, texas lieutenant governor dan patrick said maybe this was a week ago, or before the nra convention. this seemed to separate even what is the truth, and what is a bad look? >> kind of. senator john cornyn didn't go to

nra either but made a delineation -- >> impressive. >> governor abbott trying to have it both ways by appearing virtually but not going physically in person. yeah, certainly this is one of those moments that separates in the moment, but i still think that the larger permission structure in conservative politics be as conservative as possible on this. on trump, though. we have talked about the ways he is not wed to much ideologically. in the rooms of his rallies, certainly this got the largest cheers. at the same time, the republican party doesn't need trump to lead them on the gun conversation right now. republican senators on the hill are doing it all by themselves. the nra doesn't even need to give them that road map any more. >> cornell, does it help democrats most likely to help trump be the face of this gun bill on the gun movement? >> it doesn't hurt but i think

democrats are going to have to make their opponents the face of this. i think what is interesting what senator booker talked about set up the votes and let them vote down the popular things and let's go back and run against it. >> that is not senator schumer's strategy. >> i think it hasn't been. but i think if you're looking at the head winds of the midterm, listen, democrats are supposed to lose everything. history says that. we have an opportunity to change the dynamic. george bush changed the dynamic with national security. economy was a big issue when george bush was running midterm. they never talked about it. if democrats are not talking about saving children's lives and stopping hate crimes and a right for a woman to choose what happens in their body this election cycle, shame on democrats. one quick point about the gender gap. again, the angry mom voter, if you look at 2014 and 2010, there was barely any gender gap. i think women broke two points

in 14 points for demonstrates and if women break 19 points going into 2022 for democrats it's a different election. >> pat, why did you struggle without -- why did you struggle as sort of the non-trump candidate compared to the georgia republicans? >> i have a club for growth. a super pac is now just spending money and they made me something that i wasn't. i saw some of the commercials and i would have voted against me. they were so inaccurate and so false. false advertising. >> is there a lesson you could have taken out of this? >> i think a big lesson for the general election is this. what are the reagan republicans like myself, what are the independents going to do who go biden's policies are disastrous. they don't like the policies. the economy is in the tank. and, yet they don't like the character of trump but they liked his policies. that is going to be the big swing vote is which way do they go? and that is going to determine, i think, the senate in the future and maybe the presidential election. >> thank you all for being with us today. thank you for watching.

try your best to compartmentalize and enjoy the rest of your memorial day weekend. remember, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." remember, if i "meet the press." good evening, and welcome to "politics nation." tonight's lead, consoler in chief. thank you for joining us on this solemn memorial day weekend. right now, president joe biden is in uvalde, texas, addressing privately those who lost loved ones in last week's horrific school shooting at robb elementary school. all af