welcome back to msnbc on this memorial day. i'm stephanie ruhle. thank you for being here. president biden, the first lady, vice president harris, and the second gentleman all observed the holiday this afternoon with a wreath-laying ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier at

arlington national cemetery. that was just a couple hours after president biden addressed reporters outside the white house about last week's massacre of 19 children and 2 teachers in uvalde, texas. the president told reporters gathered on the south lawn that there is, quote, no rational basis for the ability to purchase high-caliber assault weapons that can fire hundreds of rounds, quote, it makes no sense. the idea that there should be at least limits on assault weapons in the wake of the uvalde and buffalo massacre, which together left 31 people murdered, was ek code by the vice president on saturday. after giving remarks at the memorial service for 86-year-old ruth whitfield, one of the victims of the buffalo supermarket shooting, vice president harris said this to reporters at the airport. >> you know, we're not looking for a vaccine. we know what works on this. it includes, let's have an assault weapons ban. background checks. why should anyone be able to buy

a weapon that can kill other human beings without at least knowing, hey, has that person committed a violent crime before? are they a threat against themselves or others? that's just reasonable. just reasonable. >> both the president and vice president say there are reasonable, actionable solutions to the issue of gun violence in our country. and state leaders possibly are starting to follow suit. new jersey governor phil murphy urging lawmakers to raise the age for purchasing long guns to 21 and to allow gun makers to face civil lawsuits. new york governor kathy hochul seeking an age restriction on the purchase of ar-15 style rifles setting that limit at 21 years of age. both governors calling for age restrictions in large part because both the shooter in uvalde and the shooter in buffalo purchased ar-15 style rifles legally when they turned 18 years old. a point "the new york times" drove home yesterday, devoting the front cover of its sunday

review to a list of 15 mass shootings in which the gunmen were able to buy their weapons legally. joining me now to discuss, a woman who has devoted her life's work to gun safety, shannon watts. founder of moms demand action for gun sense in america, a grassroots movement that began after the sandy hook massacre, which took place almost ten years ago. shannon, i feel terrible saying this, but every time you're on air with me, i know it's bad news. and here we are again. do you have any reason to believe that in terms of making common sense gun reform, that this time is different? >> i have hope after every single horrific national shooting tragedy. what is the other choice? what is the other option? you and i are both moms. we aren't going to live in a world where we send our kids to school on school buses and they come home in hearses. that is not acceptable to any

parent in this nation, and also, honestly, i think sometimes cynicism is sort of an excuse for inaction. so, everyone has a role to play in putting pressure on our senators to say, you have to compromise, and there will be consequences for inaction. i am hopeful that in the next week, when the senate comes back from their recess, that they will act and that they will pass life-saving laws shown by data to save lives in this country. but if they don't, the work doesn't end. we have to keep the pressure on for the next 160 days until the midterm elections. they have to see that there are consequences for inaction. >> shannon, we do live in that world. we live in that world where we put our kids in buses to school and they might not come home. that is the reality. that is the reality for all of those parents in uvalde, texas. is the issue in terms of voting that we don't put enough pressure on our lawmakers, not

enough americans make gun safety our top issue? >> look, i think that is certainly part of that, and it has changed just since i've been involved in this issue in the last decade. when i started this work, about a quarter of all democrats in congress had an "a" rating from the nra. today, none do. this issue, polling showed, actually helped us flip the house in 2018. it helped us elect moms demand action volunteer lucy mcbath, a gun violence survivor, to congress. it helped us flip both chambers of the general assembly in virginia in 2019, so we know this is a polling issue that resonates, particularly with moms and women, particularly with black moms and women, but everyone has a role to play in this. we have to use our voices and our votes when we go into the polling places in november and show our lawmakers that we will not accept inaction. we will not allow gun lobbyists to write our gun laws.

>> when you go through your list of priorities, is banning high-capacity assault weapons at the absolute top? because that sure seems to be the weapon of choice and the one that is the most destructive in all of these mass shootings. >> absolutely. i mean, there are many things that this congress can do, and in fact, the house has done their job. they passed several pieces of legislation. the data shows us how to make laws on this issue. you know, if you hear a lawmaker saying, laws don't work, i kind of wonder why they're lawmakers in the first place. when we look at states in this country that have strong gun laws, we see fewer gun deaths, and when we see states with weaker gun laws, they have more gun deaths. but we need a background check, we need a red flag law. we need to regulate assault weapons like high capacity magazine limits, that we need a director of the atf. i mean, this is low-hanging fruit. you know, when you look at cars and traffic fatalities in the

'70s, there was so much that happened. it wasn't just one so-called silver bullet that fixed everything. we still have traffic deaths. but we cut them significantly through rumble strips and seat belts and safety equipment and speed limits. we haven't even tried trying when it comes to guns in this country. >> how important is it to address the age limit when it comes to buying these long guns? it's not unique to the united states that we have got young people suffering from loneliness and depression, disaffected youth, only worsened during covid. but what's unique here is, when they turn 18, they can buy a weapon of war and use it. >> you are exactly right. i mean, if you look at the state of texas, you have to be 21 to buy beer, cigarettes, even sudafed. but you can go and buy a semiautomatic long gun, a rifle, and ammunition, and that's absolutely asinine and dangerous, and in fact, when you look at the data, again, that's what should guide all of our law

making this this country, we see that the gun homicides are about 18% are committed by people who are age 18 to 22. they only make up 4% of the population in this country. that in itself is a red flag and shows that you should at least be 21 to have access to weapons of war. >> remember that. you have to be 21 to buy sudafed. 18 to buy an ar-15. shannon watts, thank you for joining us today. i appreciate it. founder of moms demand action for gun sense in america. i want to bring in becky pringle. she's the president of the national education association. becky, you represent teachers around this country. tell me what it is like for you and your organization when you hear about another one of these shootings in what teachers are going through. >> hi, stephanie. i was with those teachers who survived sandy hook, and who

survived parkland, in houston rallying outside the nra convention demanding not just the nra, stephanie, you know this, but all of the gun lobbyists who are standing in the way of keeping our kids safe. and what they said to me is being echoed all over this country, not just by our teachers but all of our educators in our schools, and that is that, you know, every time we lose the lives of our children and the lives of our colleagues, we are demanding that the elected leaders do their jobs. i hesitate to even use the word "leaders" in this moment when we have been demanding this change for years. i stood with those students who started march for our lives at our nea headquarters just, what, four years ago. and they said they weren't going to stop until things change in this country, and you know what, stephanie? they're not stopping, and neither are we.

>> do you believe it when lawmakers are saying, we need to harden our schools, we need to firm up their entrances, we need more security, we need to arm our teachers? when i hear that, i'm looking at these lawmakers and the districts they represent. these are districts that continuously vote down their school budgets. teachers across this country don't have enough money for the pens and papers and rulers for their classrooms. do you actually believe the government would ever even fund the changes they're calling upon? >> stephanie, we've lived with decades of disinvestment in our public schools and in our students. we should be focusing on making sure that all of our students, every one, have the tools they need to learn and to thrive and to live. we should not be talking about putting more guns in our schools. we know -- we already know this. more guns means more violence. this is just a distraction. instead of talking about arming

teachers with guns, why don't we arm them with books and stop banning them? that's a whole other conversation about the -- what our teachers and other educators are being asked to do in this moment. to stand in the gaps for our students again and then they're asking us to pick up a gun? no. it's a distraction, stephanie. we all know that. and we are not standing for that. we are uniting all over this country, and we will not stop. that -- the question we're asking congress is what are they going to do to keep our students safe? our schools should be the safest place for our kids to be and not just our schools, our churches, our grocery stores, all of them. we have to end gun violence in this country. >> do you believe this call to harden our schools, to -- that this idea to arm our teachers is only going to worsen the teacher shortage we have in this country? we already have a record number of teachers dropping out, and young people graduating college

saying, i'm not interested in pursuing that field. maybe one of the most important jobs in our country. >> we're already seeing that, stephanie. we just did a survey. nea just did a survey and over 55% of our current educators said they are planning to leave the profession sooner than what they thought they would. this isn't -- this is a crisis. it's not that it's new. we have had an educator shortage for decades. but the pandemic only made it worse, and now we're not treating our educators as professionals and then we're putting the weight of doing something about gun violence on them too? it's not right. it's not fair. and it's not what will keep our students safe. we know what that is. 90% of americans believe we should pass the common sense gun laws that you heard shannon talking about. 90%. we need to get this done right now. >> the other night, i spoke to the former principal from

columbine high school. the school shooting that devastated our country decades ago but that really started this for so many of us. and what he said to me was, stephanie, if we hardened our schools, if we asked our teachers to carry guns, if i was in that situation in columbine today, i would have been expected to shoot and kill my own students, and i don't think people realize that. i don't think they realize what they're asking teachers to do. and he said, despite what a horrific tragedy it was, i couldn't have pulled the trigger on my own students. do people realize what we're asking of our teachers? >> when those policymakers that are proposing those kinds of laws, they're not thinking about or caring about -- they have -- our kids or our educators. they haven't spent a day in our classrooms. so when you think about just the idea of having a weapon in your classroom that is kept safe, we know that the seconds that it takes for an assault weapon to kill students and educators.

there's no way that educators can stand in the way of that. and by the way, that's not what educators prepare themselves to do. they prepare themselves to teach students, to nurture them, to prepare them for that next journey in their schools and ultimately to become the leaders of a just society. stephanie, that's not what educators are there to do. this is a distraction, and we will not -- we will not, in any way, be deterred by what we are demanding that policymakers do. we are asking everyone in this country to join the 3 million members of the nea and all of our allies all over this nation. text now to 48744. now. join our movement right now. we will not stop until we end gun violence in this country. >> all right then. becky pringle, thank you for joining us this afternoon.

president of the national education association. still ahead today, as the nation has focused on the tragedy in uvalde, texas, and whether anything can be done to prevent another one, there have been numerous developments in the investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol, including reporting that donald trump himself liked the chants of "hang mike pence" he heard that day. barb mcquade joins us next on what happened and what can actually be done about it. on what happened and what can actually be done about it.

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hang mike pence, hang mike pence, hang mike pence. >> rioters chanting "hang mike pence." mike pence. the vice president of the united states. it was one of the more disturbing images of the attack on our capitol back on january 6th. the rioters came dangerously

close to the vice president that day, only missing him by about a minute. now we know, thanks to reporting from the "new york times," that the january 6th investigation has heard testimony that president trump himself, well, he liked those chants. white house chief of staff mark meadows reportedly told colleagues that during the riot, president trump, quote, said something to the effect of, maybe mr. pence should have been hanged. meadows, of course, denied that reporting. we also got this reporting from politico, that in the weeks after the election, after meeting with one of the key house republicans trying to overturn the election, white house chief of staff mark meadows reportedly burned papers in his office. republican congressman jim jordan, scott perry, and andy biggs and the republican leader in the house, kevin mccarthy, are all now defying subpoenas from the january 6th investigation. that has set up a showdown just days before the house investigation is set to begin holding public hearings. meanwhile, the justice department is stepping up its

investigation into the events of that very day. "the new york times" reporting, a federal grand jury has started issuing subpoenas linked to the plan to overturn the 2020 election by sending slates of pro-trump electors in states that biden won. and then there's the investigation out of fulton county, georgia. the investigation that started because the infamous january 2021 phone call where president trump repeatedly urged georgia's secretary of state to, quote, find 11,000 votes for him. that investigation is expected to subpoena up to 50 individuals this week as the grand jury begins its work. so many updates, so much to unpack. so let's discuss and bring in barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan and a professor at the university of michigan school of law. barb, there's a lot to go through, but i want to start with this reporting that trump liked these chants to hang mike pence. so, let's just break this down.

it is new news that trump liked those chants, but it's not at all a surprise. are you surprised that trump would think that? i guess it's surprising that mike pence wouldn't testify in trump's impeachment hearing, given that fact. but given all of this, do you believe it's going to make a difference? >> well, i think it could matter, you know, with these hearings occur in june. we've heard jamie raskin, congressman raskin saying we're going to hear new details that are going to blow the roof off of congress. it sort of violates every lawyer's strategy of promise low and deliver high. but it suggests to me that there are some new details that he expects to emerge that are going to be really blockbuster, and some of these little fragments we're getting seems to be something that you could piece together for something larger. this idea that donald trump was happy or pleased to hear that people were saying, "hang mike pence," i like to think that he did not want mike pence really to die but that perhaps he

thought the chaos was something that he could use to his advantage when his goal was to stop that certification. the more chaos that was occurring at the capitol, the more likely it was that they could stop that vote that day. so, perhaps that is part of not the plan but at least a happy coincidence that made trump happy when he wanted this certification to stop. >> the department of justice is really focused on the rioters themselves and pursuing justice for them or for our country, really. but as it relates to the hearings, do you expect the committee to largely focus on former president trump? >> i think it's inevitable that we won't hear some things about former president trump. you know, i think one of the things they've done is they divided up the work into a number of different sub categories to talk about how the capitol was breached, ignoring some of the intelligence that was happening there, so remember their goal is to fill gaps in the law and to see where things are going. but i do think that one of their goals is to show the american people how egregious this

assault on democracy was. and so what i'll be looking for is those conversations between donald trump and john eastman and rudy giuliani, some of those things at the higher levels of planning. was this a plan? was this just a bunch of little efforts that all came together or was this part of one coordinated plan? those are some of the things i'll be looking to hear and i do expect them to focus on that aspect of things, based on the witnesses they have called and some of the reporting that we're hearing these days. >> what's your take on this reporting that former white house chief of staff met with republican congressmen scott perry and supposedly went back to his office and burned papers? is that not potentially a criminal act? one would think that that's white house records and he was destroying them. >> if that is true -- so you always have to start with that premise. is it true? that's why you'd want to have somebody testify under oath and really push it. but yes, i think it is

potentially absolutely criminal. and you also have to realize just how unusual that is. it's very, very strange that someone would set a fire in the white house. if you have sensitive documents that you want to destroy, that happens every day. you have shred bins because people do have lots of sensitive documents that they're possessing at the highest levels of government. and so there are normal ways to get rid of those. why would someone resort to burning them? only because there was something they were so desperate to make sure didn't fall into someone else's hands. so, it's very suspicious for that reason. but did it violate a law? possibly. if the was the type of record that needs to be retained under the presidential records act, number one, or it could even be obstruction of an official proceeding if it was in anticipation of a future investigation, even if that investigation had not yet begun. so, i think there are a lot of reasons to look at that episode. >> and barb, quickly, i'm out of time, but all of this subpoena defying, there's no consequences for that? in my own little personal life, i tend to think if someone came to my door with a subpoena, i'm

pretty sure i'd respond to it or fear going to jail. >> don't follow the lead of some of these so-called leaders. i think consequences -- >> why not? they don't seem to be in trouble. >> not yet. but i think that, you know, steve bannon was charged criminally, and we have seen that ultimately, he is going to go to trial. i think there's a strong likelihood he will be convicted. but it's a slow process and it's not the best process if what you really want is their testimony. i think there are better ways to get it. and mark meadows, i don't think, has skated by any means whatsoever. i think one reason he hasn't been charged with defying the subpoena is because the justice department has bigger plans for him. >> bigger plans? well, i'll be here for that. barb mcquade, you always make us smarter every time you're here. former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan, and professor at the university of michigan school of law. thank you, barb. when we come back, the response to the january 6th attack and the investigation into it. it has divided our country like so many other things. even the shootings that left 19 children and two teachers dead

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the deadly shooting in uvalde, texas, is calling action once again to the deep divide in this country on the issue of guns. after the shooting, the associated press asked governors across the country if something should be done to prevent mass shootings and gun violence. and if so, what? those that responded agreed that something had to be done and that there should be more investment in mental health services and training. but that was the extent of their common ground. and it's not just guns. we also see this kind of divide on abortion where the nation was already split before the recent leaked draft opinion further polarizing the supreme court on the issue. on january 6th, the attack on our democracy, we see even more division. a recent "washington post"/abc news poll found that 68% of

democrats believe that the house investigation into january 6th is fair and impartial. meanwhile, 69% of republicans think that the investigation itself is unfair. we can't even agree on our biggest problems right now, so how on earth do we find the solutions? well, one way is to look at history. joining us now to discuss, ruth, history professor at new york university. she's also the author of "strong men: mussolini to the present." i'm so glad you're here with us today because solutions is exactly what we're looking for. a lot of people will say, this nation has always been divided, look back in history, we fought a civil war, things aren't that bad. but you've looked in detail at american history. what do you say about our current climate? how bad is it comparatively speaking? >> so, my expertise has been in global history, and you've always got to ask, who's benefitting from polarization? who benefits in society when

people can't agree? they don't even have common facts, and they're driven to be suspicious of each other. well, it's never democracy. and around the world, strong men leaders from mussolini and hitler up to trump are the ones who have benefitted from people who can't agree, who come to see each other not only as holding different opinions, but as the enemy. so, what we see is authoritarian leaders are people who have a profoundly different concept of what it means to not get along. it's -- when you don't agree with someone, they become a political enemy, and even are labeled as a terrorist. and we're going to look back, i think, at the 2016 campaign when donald trump, for the first time, i think, of any modern leader, said, well, you're my political opponent to hillary clinton and the solution to her being his opponent was to lock her up. that's polarization.

>> so, what role does polarization play in the slide from democracy to authoritarianism? >> so, polarization begins with, again, the discarding, and this is the influence of social media and propaganda, from, in our country, tucker carlson is very skilled propagandist. so is donald trump. so people don't have any facts in common. but the real aim of polarization, and we're in that stage, i fear, is getting people into what i call survivalist mode where they feel that it's us versus them and only one side can survive. and that's when you get people to feel that violence, aggression, and threat is justified. so, there was a poll in january 2021 that said 68% of americans said that, you know, they answered yes to the question of, our way of life is disappearing so fast that violence may be

justified. and we see this on january 6th when trump, at the rallies, said, if we don't fight back, our america will be gone. and so, you have, from all areas, including tucker carlson's great replacement theory, the sense pushed on americans that something extraordinary and violent may have to happen for us to survive. >> and a reminder, there's absolutely nothing great about replacement theory, and this idea that there even are common facts, ruth. there aren't common facts. there's just facts. how much does disinformation play into all of this? unrelated to a couple of parents who follow all that right-wing media, and when i see them on the weekends and they talk to my children, the fact that they think they know, what's panicking them about our country, none of it is even true. so, how much does that play a role in all of this? >> it's very tragic to see what's happening in our country,

and i have -- my mother has been radicalized by far-right disinformation and doesn't believe anything i say or write. it's very painful. so many americans have someone in their lives like this or no longer speak to people. but what happens is that when you no longer have a set of facts and assumptions that people think are true, even in science and public health, then our societal institutions like schools and hospitals and town councils become places of strife and that's exactly what people like the gop today and donald trump want. and then, think about beloved people in our societies like, you know, teachers and doctors and nurses. well, now, they're under threat because people think they're peddling lies, and so it plays into authoritarian attempts to break those horizontal bonds of community and fellowship and solidarity and make people look upon each other with suspicion

and even hatred, and that's what's happening here, and it's tragic to see it when i have studied it all over the world for a hundred years to see it happening here. >> then, what do we do with that? if your own life's work isn't believed by your mother, who is believing grifters and criminals and liars, instead of her daughter or teachers or doctors, what do we do with that? >> so, a lot of the research that comes from people who study what i do as well as disinformation and cult specialists says not to do what we'd like to do which is to just stop talking to them, to cast them off and say, they're a lost cause. because this only drives them further into their silos, and we have to try and get through to them, especially if they're someone close to us, because when they're ready to come out of it, for example, my mother loved putin and now there's the war, she doesn't like putin anymore. so, when they're ready to come a

little closer to accepting reality, you will be there to receive them, rather than having cut all ties with them. and so it runs counter to what we might like to do, but all experts coming from various areas of this disinformation puzzle say the same thing. >> how to fight disinformation? fight it with love. love thy neighbor no matter what. ruth, thank you so much for joining us today. ruth ben-ghiat, a history professor at nyu and expert on authoritarianism. when we come back, america's new ambassador to ukraine has just arrived in kyiv as ukraine's president pays his first visit to the front lines of the war. we'll be back with more. t to ths of the war we'll be back with more. we're having to get creative. find a new way. but birthdays still happen. fridays still call for s'mores. you have to make magic, and you're figuring out how to do that. what you don't have to figure out is where to shop. because while you're getting creative,

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as this war rages on, russia continues its assault on the eastern part of ukraine. sky news's alex crawford has more from the front lines. >> reporter: we're being taken

deep into the ukrainian forest on the western borders of the donbas. and the soldiers of the 93rd brigade are waiting for their orders to strike enemy positions. this is their most potent weapon. she's a 60-year-old veteran capable of firing multiple rockets at once, but only up to 20 kilometers away, not enough in this war. the younger american version can fire a barrage that reaches hundreds of kilometers. but this is all these soldiers have right now. and they need her. their orders come in. suddenly, there's action. they know they have to move fast. a russian position has been spotted on the izium front. they're trying to hold back the russian troops from advancing south and attacking the donbas from yet another front. they take dusty forest roads to

avoid detection from drones. if they're spotted, they will definitely be targeted. the crew line up their barrage of rockets and adjust the targets. these are not precision weapons. they can fire a full load of 40, 122-millimeter rockets over a wide area in under 20 seconds. they recheck the coordinates. this time, they've decided to split the attack into two salvos, so he instructs them to launch the second 20.

this is what the russians have a lot of and which the ukrainians want to see more of. and they say will make all the difference in the war. we've got to move quickly now. they have to get out of the area because they know the russians will be looking to fire on this position and obliterate the crew. this is what they're up against. the ukrainian government says this shows the russians using thermobaric bombs on the donbas. this is what the most horrific war of the 21st century looks like, the statement said. the ukrainian troops on the front line are horrifyingly exposed, having to defend large stretches of open land and keep an enemy at bay who they are rarely close enough to see. the russians are using their

long-range artillery to constant devastating effect. the smoke that you can see there shows the russian positions. it's a village which is half controlled by the ukrainians, and half by the russians. chief is asking his troops what the situation's like there. they've been shelled an hour or so earlier. this small band of men have been holding this position for weeks now. coming under constant attack every few hours from russian positions. oh, here we go. inlaw. they proudly show us some of the foreign weapons. it's from britain. they're designed to destroy tanks at short range with a single shot, and they need little training to operate. but here in the forest and farmland, its capability is

limited, ivan tells us. in this position, it isn't that effective, he says. because their tanks don't come closer than three and a half kilometers, and this weapon can't reach the target at that distance effectively. they need long-range artillery and tanks themselves, he says, if they're to stop this reinvigorated russian invasion. yeah, you can see them in the distance. they have had some crucial successes, though, recently, somehow managing to stop several russian tanks from crossing the dam just in front of them and planting a ukrainian flag to emphasize this territory is still very much theirs for now. >> that was sky news alex crawford reporting from the front lines in eastern ukraine. when we come back, we'll talk to someone who has spoken recently with president zelenskyy is and understands perhaps better than anyone the challenges of this war ahead. former u.s. ambassador, michael mcfaul, joins us next. don't go anywhere. ael mcfaul, joins us next. don't go anywhere.

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which may be permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. in the darkness of bipolar i and ii depression, caplyta can help you let in the lyte. ask your doctor about caplyta, from intra-cellular therapies. in ukraine, the last sunday in may is kyiv day. a celebration that commemorates are the foundation of the

capitol city. it took on the particular importance as the country enters the 14th week of the devastating war. even as the war intensifies in the east, in kyiv, there are signs of normalcy emerging. that includes arrival of u.s. ambassador to ukraine, whose nomination was anonymously approved by the senate two weeks ago. she fills a role that has been vacant since 2019. few people are in a better position to talk about what this means and where the war stands at in the moment than former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael lindfall. he joins us now. mr. ambassador, it's great to see you. thank you for taking the time on this important day. ambassador brink just tweeted a photo confirming her arrival in kyiv. what does her presence mean to both the united states and ukraine? and russia, for that matter >>well, first, we have now a confirmed ambassador in one of the most important diplomatic missions in the world. that we didn't have before.

second, we actually have a fantastic ambassador. i know ambassador brink. i worked with her at the white house in the obama administration. i think she's a perfect person for the job! third, we now have our diplomatic and military presence back in the capitol city of kyiv. that is very important for coordinating, talking to the ukrainian government, and specially for our military officers to talk directly to ukrainian officers. >> you recently spoke to maybe the most important officer, the president. president zelenskyy joined you on your podcast. what is his current military assessment, at this point? >> well, to be clear, he joined all the stanford on a video live cast that he talked about with our students. i will tweet it out, people should watch it if you want to be inspired. after his formal remarks, he had an interesting interaction with our students on the tough

issues. the number one thing on the mind, give his warriors the weapons they need to stop the russians in donbas. it's that simple. the americans, the biden administration, and other allies and nato allies are providing some weapons. important weapons like long range artillery. he wants better quality and longer range weapons as soon as possible >>well, it sounded like from the president earlier today, if we get it right, that the united states is not going to be providing long range rockets. those that would reach russia, at least that's what it sounded like from the president. >> yeah, i've been in touch with senior administration officials. it's a bit of a garble. the president made the decision to not provide the longest range missile systems that we have. that can strike, as you said, 300 kilometers. they can strike all the way deep into russia. they are providing other rocket

sim -- systems that can go farther than the weapons the ukrainians have today. including the piece you showed, by the way, fantastic. they're providing more capacity to go farther but not providing the highest capacity to meet the longest range missiles. >> i know that you have been following what is happening not just with nato but think about the european union. where they're going at this point on possibly banning russian oil. do you think they'll get there? it's a tall order for a lot of countries. >> you're right. st a tall order. i think it's an essential order. i work with a group of experts that have put together several papers to show why it could be achieved without economic depression, recession in europe. let's just be clear, when we pay for energy that russia ships, we are financing putin's soldiers. we're killing innocent civilians in ukraine.

it's that simple. that's why i think it should stop. >> all right. before we go, i have been wanting to asks you about this. your yellow and blue feed on twitter. you're a massive supporter of ukraine. you're also a huge fan of the golden state warriors. your team heading to the nba finals. how you feeling about this? >> i'm feeling great about it! blue and gold are good colors for everyone to be wearing. in fact, many of our students in talking to zelenskyy were, stefanie. he noted that. he said those are great colors. i don't know if they're warrior fans or ukrainian fans or zelenskyy fans. i'm guessing most are zelenskyy fans. >> blue and gold you can support all the above. thank you so much for joining me on this important memorial day. former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. his team making it to the finals is absolutely wonderful. i want to thank you for joining us today. that does it for me on this

hour. msnbc's live coverage continues with lawrence o'donnell after the break. stay with us. awrence o'donnell the break. stay with us ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪of travel i've had my share, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere.♪ ♪♪ you see, son, with a little elbow grease, you can do just about anything. thanks, dad. that's right, robert. and it's never too early to learn you could save with america's number one motorcycle insurer. that's right, jamie. but it's not just about savings. it's about the friends we make along the way. you said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will thank you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember.

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that's g-o-l-o.com. we care deeply about the people we cover and about these incidents. we could gladly never ever have to do this again, if it meant that another one of theetz kids doesn't die. s doesn't die. good evening. i'm lawrence o'donnell. this is our continuing live coverage on this memorial day holiday. today at arlington national cemetery, the president of the united states sai