welcome back to msnbc, on this memorial day, i am stephanie ruhle. thank you for being here. president biden, the first lady, vice president harris, and the gentlemen, all observed the

holiday this afternoon with the ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier at our benton national cemetery. that was just a couple of hours after president biden addressed reporters outside of the white house about last week's massacre of 19 children and two teachers in uvalde texas. the president told reporters that they gathered on the south lawn. they said that there was no rational basis to the ability to persist high caliber assault weapons that could fire hundreds of rounds, quote, it makes no sense. the idea that there should be at least limits on assault weapons in the wake of uvalde, buffalo massacre which together left 31 people murdered was echoed by the vice president on saturday. after giving remarks at the memorial service for 86 year old ruth winfield, one of the victims of the buffalo supermarket shooting, vice president harris said this to reporters at the airport. >> you know, we are not looking for a backseat.

we know works on this. it includes having assault weapons banned, background checks -- why should any bone be able to bio weapon that could kill other human beings without at least knowing, hey, has that person committed a violent crime before? are they a threat against themselves or others? that's just reasonable! it's reasonable! >> both the president and vice president say that there are reasonable actionable solutions to the issue of gun violence in our country. and state leaders, possibly, are starting to follow suit. new jersey governor, phil murphy, urging lawmakers to raise the age for purchasing long guns to 21. and to allow gun makers to face civil lawsuits. new york governor, kathy hochul, streaking an age restriction on the purchase of ar-15 style rifles, setting that limit at 21 years of age. both governors calling for age restrictions in large part because both the shooter in uvalde and sugar in buffalo purchased ar-15 style rifles

legally when they turned 18 years old. appoint the new york times drove home yesterday, devoting the front cover of the sunday review to a list of 15 mass shootings in which gunman were able to buy their weapons legally. joining me now to discuss, a woman who has devoted her life's work to gun safety, shannon watts. founder of moms demand action for gun sense in america. a grassroots movement that began after the sandy hook massacre that took place almost ten years ago. shannon, i feel terrible saying this. but every time you are on air with me, i know it's bad news. and here we are again. >> do you have any reason to believe that in terms of making common sense gun reform that this time is different? >> i have hope after every single national shooting tragedy. what is the other choice? what is the other option? you and i are both moms.

we are not going to live in a world where we send our kids to school on school buses and they come home in horses. that is not acceptable to any parent in this nation. and, also, honestly, i think sometimes cynicism is a excuse or in action. so, everyone has a role to play in putting pressure on our senators to say, you have to compromise. and there will be consequences for inaction. i am hopeful that in the next week when the senate comes back from the recess that they will act and they will pass like saving laws shown by data to save lives in the country. but if they don't, the work does not and. we have to keep the pressure on for the next 160 days until the midterm elections. they have to see that there are consequences for an action. >> but shannon, we do live in that world. we live in that world where we put our kids in buses to school and they might not come home. that is the reality.

that is the reality for all of those parents in uvalde, texas. it is the issue in terms of voting that we don't put enough pressure on our lawmakers? not enough americans make gun safety our top issue. >> look, i think that that is certainly part of that. and it has changed. just has with biden has been involved in this issue, about a quarter of democrats had awaiting from the nra. today, monday. this issue polling showed to actually help us flip the house and help us all like moms demand action, lucy mcbath, a gun survivor to congress. it helped us flip both chambers of the assembly in 2019. so, we know that this is a pulling issue that resonates, particularly, with moms and women who are black. but everyone has a role to play in this. we have to use our voices and our votes when we go into the polling places in november and show our lawmakers that we will

not accept inaction. we will not allow gun lobbyists to write our gun laws. >> when you go through your list of priorities, is banning high capacity assault weapons at the absolute top? because that sure seems to be the weapon of choice at the one that is the most disruptive in all of these mass shootings? >> absolutely. there are many things that this congress can do. and in, fact they have done their job. the past several pieces of legislation. the data shows us how to make laws on this issue. you, know if you see lawmakers-ing loss don't work, i kind of wonder why they are lawmakers in the first place. when we look at states in this country, they have strong gun laws. we see fewer gun dust. and when we see once with fewer -- but the data shows us that we need a background check on every gun sale. we need a red flag law. we need to regulate assault weapons like high capacity magazine limits.

we need a director of the atf. i mean, this is low-hanging fruits. when you look at cars and traffic fatalities in the 70s, there was so much that happened. it wasn't just one so-called silver bullet that fixed everything. we still have traffic. we cut them significantly the rumble strips and seatbelts and safety equipment as well as speed limits. we haven't even tried trying when it comes to guns in this country. >> how important is it to address the age limit when it comes to buying these along guns? it is not unique to the united states that we have got young people suffering from loneliness and depression, disaffected use only use -- worst in covid. but what's different here is that when they turn 18, they can buy war of weapon and use it. >> you are exactly right. i, mean when you look at the state of texas, you have to be 21 to buy beer, cigarettes and even suited. but you can go and buy a semi

odd effect -- and ammunition. and that is absolutely asinine and dangerous. and in fact, when you look at the data again, that is what should guide all of our lawmaking in this country. we see that the gun homicides are about 18% commitment to those who are 18 to 22. they only make up 4% of the population in this country. that, in itself, is a red flag essentials that you shouldn't -- and you should at least be 21 to have access to guns of war. >> remember that. you have to be 21 to by sue the fed, 18 to buy an ar-15. shannon watts, thank you for joining. us founders of moms demand action for gun sense in america. i want to bring in becky pringle. she is the president of the national precedent association. becky, you represent teachers around this country. tell me what it is like for you and your organization when you hear about another one of these shootings and what teachers are

going through. >> hi stephanie. i was with those teachers who survived sandy hook. and who survived parkland in houston. rallying outside of the nra convention, demanding, not just the nra. stephanie you know this, but all of the lobbyist who are standing in the way of keeping our kids safe. and what they said to me is being echoed all over this country not just by our teachers but all of our educators and our school and that is that every time we lose the lives of our children and the lives of our colleagues we are demanding that the elected leaders do their jobs. i hesitate to even use the word, leaders, in this moment when we have been demanding this change for years. i stood with those students who started march for our lives at our headquarters just four years ago. and, they said that they

weren't going to stop until things changed in this country. and you know what, stephanie, they aren't stopping. and neither are we. >> do you believe it when lawmakers are saying we need to harden our schools? we need to firm up their entrances? we need to arm our teachers? when i heard that, i'm looking at these lawmakers and the districts they represent, they represent districts that continuously vote down their school budgets. teachers across the country don't have enough money for the pentagon papers and rulers for the classrooms. do you actually believe the government whatever even fund the changes that they're calling upon? >> stephanie, when you've lived with decades of decision -- within our school and students, we should be focusing on making sure that all of our students, every one of them have the schools that they need to learn and to thrive as well as living. we should not be talking about putting more guns in our schools. we already know this.

morgan's means more violence. this is just a distraction. instead of talking about arming teachers with guns, why don't we arm them with books? and stop bending them. that is a whole other conversation about what our teachers and other educators are being asked to do in this moment. to stand in the gaps for our students, again and asking us to pick up a gun. no. it's a destruction stephanie. we all know that. and, we are not standing for that. we are uniting all over this country. and, we will not stop. the question that we're asking congress is what are they going to do to keep our student. save our school should be the safest place for a school to be. and that's just our schools, our streets, and subways, and churches. all of them. we have to end gun violence in this country. >> do you believe this call to harden our schools and this idea to harm our teachers is

only going to worsen the teacher shortage we have in this country? we already have a record number of teachers dropping out and young people graduation college and saying, i'm not interested in pursuing that field. maybe one of the most important jobs in our country. >> we are already seeing that, stephanie. we adjusted a survey and over 55% of our current educators say that they are planning to leave the profession sooner than what they thought they would. this is a crisis. it is not that it's near. we had an education shortage for decades. but the pandemic only made it worse. we are not treating our educators as professionals. and then, we are putting the weight of doing something about gun violence on them to? it is not right. it is not fair. and it is not what will keep our students safe. we know what that is. 90% of americans believe we should pass the common sense gun laws that you heard shannon talking about. 90%!

we need to get this done right now. >> the other night i spoke to the former principal from columbine high school. the school shooting that devastated our country decades ago but really started this for so many of us. and, what he said to me was, stephanie, if we hardened our schools, if we asked our teachers to carry guns, if i was in that situation in columbine today, i would've been expected to shoot and kill my own students. and i don't think people realize that. i don't think they realize what they are asking teachers to do. and he said, despite what a horrific tragedy it was, he, said i could not have pulled the trigger on my own students. do people realize what we are asking of our teachers? >> when those policy makers that are proposing those kinds of, laws they are not thinking about or caring about our kids are educators. they haven't spent the day in our classrooms. so, when you think about just the idea of having a weapon in your classroom that is kept

safe, we know that the second that it takes for an assault weapon to kill students and educators, there is no way that educators can stand in that way. by the way, that is not what educators prepare themselves to do. they prepare themselves to teach students and to nurture them. to prepare them for that next journey in their schools and ultimately to become the leaders of a society. stephanie, that is not what educators are there to do. this is a distraction. and we will not, we will not, in any way, be deterred by what we are demanding -- demanded that policy makers do. we are asking everyone here to join the 3 million members of the and aa, all of our allies all over this nation to text now to four, eight, seven for four now. join our movement right now. we will not stop until we end

gun violence in this. country >> all, right becky pringle all right thank you for then, becky joining us this thank you for joining us afternoon. this afternoon. president of the presidents of the national association. national association. still ahead today, as the nation has focused on the tragedy in uvalde, texas. and whether anything can be done to prevent another one. there have been numerous developments in the investigation into the january 6th attack on the capital, including reporting that donald trump himself, like the chants, hang mike pence he heard that day. barb mcquade joins us next on what happened and what can actually be done about it. ally be done about it.

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i know there's conflicting information about dupuytren's contracture. i thought i couldn't get treatment yet? well, people may think that their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but it doesn't. if you can't lay your hand flat on the table, talk to a hand specialist. but what if i don't want surgery? well, then you should find a hand specialist certified to offer nonsurgical treatments.

what's the next step? visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started. i know there's conflicting information about dupuytren's contracture. i thought i couldn't get treatment yet? well, people may think that their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but it doesn't. if you can't lay your hand flat on the table, talk to a hand specialist. but what if i don't want surgery? well, then you should find a hand specialist certified to offer nonsurgical treatments. what's the next step? [noise] hang mike pence! visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started.

[noise] >> rioters chanting, hang mike pence! mike pence, the vice president of the united states.

it was one of the most disturbing images of the attack on the capitol. january 6th. the rioters came dangerously close to the vice president that day. only missing him by about a minute. now we know, thanks to reporting from the new york times, that the january 6th investigation has heard testimony that president trump himself, really liked those chants. white house chief of staff, mark meadows, told colleagues that during the rally, president trump said maybe president pence should have been hanged! they of course denied that reporting. we also have this reporting from politico, that in weeks after meeting with one of the key house republicans trying to overturn the election. white house chief of staff, mark meadows, burn papers in his office. republican congressman jim jordan, scott perry, andy biggs, and kevin mccarthy, are all now defying subpoenas from the january six investigation. that will set up a showdown

just days before the investigation that is set to begin the public hearings. now the justice department is sending up its investigation into what happened that very day. of federal grand jury has been issuing subpoenas linked to the plan to overturn the 2020 election, by sending slates of pro trump electors in the states that biden won. and then an investigation out of fulton county, georgia. it started because of the infamous january phone call where president trump repeatedly urged georgia secretary of state, to quote, find 11,000 votes for him. that investigation is suspected to subpoena about 50 individuals this week. as a grand jury begins its work. so many updates, so much to unpack. so let's discuss, and bring in barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. and a professor at the university of michigan school of law. there is a lot to go through.

but i want to start with this reporting that trump liked these chants to hang mike pence. let's break this down. it is new news that trump liked the chance, but it is not a surprise. would you be surprised that trunk would like that? it's surprising that pence would be in the hearing, given all of that. but do you think it's gonna make a difference? >> i think it could matter, these hearings occur in june. we've heard jamie raskin, congressman raskin, saying that we're gonna have new details to blow the roof off of congress. it violates every lawyers strategy of promise low and deliver high. but it suggests to me that there are some new details that he expects to emerge, that are going to be really blockbuster. and some of these little fragments that we are getting, seems to be something that you could piece together for something larger. this idea that donald trump was happy, or pleased to hear that

people were saying hang mike pence! i'd like to think that he did not want pence today. but perhaps he thought the chaos was something that he could use to his advantage, when the goal was to stop the certification. the chaos was occurring at the capitol, the more likely that it was that they could stop the vote that they. so, maybe that wasn't the plan, but a happy coincidence that made trump happy when he wanted the certification to stop. >> the department of justice is really focused on the rioters themselves, and pursuing justice for them, or for our country really. but as it relates to the hearing, do you expect the committee to largely focus on former president trump? >> i think it is a navigable that we won't hear some things about former president trump. and i think one of the things that they have done is divide of the work into different sub categories to talk about how the capitol was breached. ignoring some of the intelligence that was happening there, and remember the goal

was to see where things are going. but i do think one of the goals is to show the american people how agree just this assault on democracy was. and so what i will be looking for is those conversations between donald trump, john eastman, rudy giuliani. some of them at the higher levels of planning. was this just a plan? was this just a bunch of little efforts. that all came together? or was this part of one coordinated plan? those are some of the things i would be looking to hear. and i don't expect them to focus on that aspect, based on the witnesses that they have called, and the sum of the reporting that we are hearing these days. >> what's your take on this reporting that former white house chief of staff met with republican congressman scott perry, and supposedly went back to his office and burned papers! is that not potential lee a criminal act? one might think that this is white house papers and he is destroying them? >> that is true.

if this is true, you wanna start with that premise. if this is truth, you want someone to talk about it under oath and really push. it but i think it is potentially really criminal. and you have to think about how unusual that is. it's really strange that someone would set a fire in the white house. if you have these documents that you want to destroy, that happens every day. you have shred bins because people do have a lot of sensitive documents that they are possessing at the highest level of government. so there are normal ways to get rid of those. why would someone resort to burning them? it is something that they were so desperate to make sure it didn't fall and someone else's hands. very suspicious for that reason. but did not -- did it violate the law? maybe. if it needs to be detained under the presidential records act. or, it could be obstructed a proceeding, even if the investigation had not begun. so i think they're a lot of reasons to look at that. >> and barbara, quickly, i'm out of time. but all of the sieve subpoenaed defying, there is no

consequences for that? in my own personal life i tend to think that if someone came to order a subpoena. i would respond to it or fear going to jail. >> yeah, don't follow the lead of some of these so-called leaders. i think consequences will come. >> why not? they don't seem to be in trouble? >> yeah, but i think steve bannon was charged criminally. on ultimately he will go to trial. he will be convicted. but it's a slow process, it's not the best process. what you really want is a testimony, i think there are better ways to get it. and mark meadows, i don't think he had skated by any means whatsoever. one reason he hasn't been charged with defying the subpoena, is because they have bigger plans for him. >> figure plans? i will be here for that! barbara mcquade, you always make a smarter. every time you are here. former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan, and professor of the university of michigan school of law. thank you. when we come back, the response to the january 6th attack, and the investigation into it that

has the guided our country like so many other things! even the shootings that left 19 children and two teachers dead in texas, again, dividing our nation. when we come back, historian ruth benji ask, talks about the divide in america and divisions across the world! he world

the deadly shooting in uvalde texas is calling action once again to the deep divide in this country on the issue of guns. after the shooting, the associated press asked governors across the country if something should be done to prevent mass shootings and gun violence. if so, what? those that responded, agreed that something had to be done and that there should be more investment in mental health services and training. but that was the end of their common ground. and it's not just guns. we also see this divide on abortion where the nation was already split before the recent leaked draft opinion further polarizing the supreme court on the issue. on january 6th, the attack on our democracy, we see more.

a recent washington post, abc news global found that 60% of democrats believed that the house investigation into january six is fair and impartial. meanwhile, 69% of republicans think that the investigation, itself, is unfair. we can't even agree on our biggest problems right now. so, how on earth do we find a solution? well, one way is to look at history. joining us now to discuss, ruth benji ott, history professor at new york university. she is also the author of strongmen. mussolini to the president. i'm so glad that you're here with us today because solutions is exactly what we're looking for. a lot of people will say that this nation has always been divided, look back at history, we fought a civil war, things aren't that bad. but, you have looked in detail at american history. what do you say about our current climate. how bad is it comparatively speaking? >> so, my expertise has been in

global history and you've always got to ask who is benefiting from polarization. who benefits and society when people cannot agree and they don't even have common facts. and they're driven to be suspicious of each other. well, it's never democracy, at around the world, strongman leaders from mussolini and hitler up to trump are the ones that have benefited from people who can't agree and who come to see each other, not only as different opinions, but as the enemy. so, what we see is authoritarian leaders or people of a profoundly different concept of what it means to not get along. when you don't agree with someone, they become political enemies. and even are labeled as a terrorist. and, they are going to look back, i, think at the 2016 campaign when donald trump, for the first time, i think of any modern leader said, well, you are my political opponent to hillary clinton on the solution

to her being his opponent was to locker. that is polarization. >> so, what role does polarization play in the slide from democracy to authoritarianism? >> so, polarization, you, know begins with, again, the discarding of social media and propaganda from an in our country. tucker carson is a very skilled propaganda-ness so that people don't have any -- but, the real aim of polarization and we are in that stage, i, fear is getting people and to what i call, survivalist mode where they feel that it is us versus them. and, only one side can survive. and that is when you get people to feel that violence, aggression and threat is justified. so, there was a poll in january 2021 that said that 60% of americans have said that they

answered yes to the question of our way of life being disappearing that violence may be justified. and, we see this on january 6th when trump, at the, rally said that if we don't fight back our america would be gone. and so you have from all areas, including tucker call since great replacement there -- the push on americans that something extraordinary and violent may have to happen for us to survive. >> and, a reminder that there's absolutely nothing great about replacement theory. and, this idea that there even are common facts, ruth, there aren't common facts. they're just facts. how much does disinformation plan to play into all of this? i know parents who follow all the right-wing media. i see them on the weekend and they talk to my children. the facts that they think the, know what's panicking them about our country, none of it is even true. so, how much does that play a

role in all of this? >> it is very tragic to see what is happening in our country. and, i, just as my mother, has been radicalized by far-right information. does not believe anything that i say. it's very painful. so many americans have someone in their lives, like, this who no longer speak to those people. but, what happens is that when you no longer have a set of facts and assumptions that people think are true, even in science and public health, then our societal institutions like schools and hospitals as well as town councils become paces of strikes. and that's where people like the gop today and donald trump won. and then, think about beloved people in our society like, you, know teachers and doctors as well as nurses. well now, they are under threat because people think that they are peddling lives. and it plays into authoritarian attempts to break those horizontal bonds of community,

fellowship in solidarity. and it makes people look up on each other with suspicion and hatred. and that is what's happening here. it's tragic to see it when i've studied it all over the world for years to see it happening here. >> then, what do we do with that? if your own life's work isn't believed by your mother who is believing drifters, criminals and liars instead of her daughter or teachers and doctors, what do we do with that? >> so, a lot of the research that comes from people who study what i do as well as disinformation and called specialists say that they should not do what we like to do, which is to just stop talking to them, to cast them off and say that they are a lost cause. because this only drives them further into their silos. and, we have to try and get through to them. especially if they are someone close to us. because, when they are ready to come out of, it for example, my mother love putin.

and now there's the war. she doesn't like putin anymore. so, when they are ready to come a little closer to accepting reality, you will be there to seek them rather than having them cut all ties with. them, so it runs counter to what we would like to do. but all experts coming from various, you know, areas of this disinformation puzzle say the same thing. >> how to fight disinformation? fight it would love. love thy neighbor no matter what. >> ruth, thank you so much for joining us tonight. ruth ben-ghiat, a history professor at nyu an expert on authoritarianism. when we come, back americas new ambassador to ukraine has just arrived in kyiv as ukraine's president paces first visit to the front lines of the war. we'll be back with more. we'll be back with more.

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sky news alex crawford has more from the front lines. >> where being taken deep into the ukrainian forest. on the western borders of the donbas. and the soldiers of the 93rd regrade, awaiting for their borders to strike in the new positions. this is their most potent weapon. she's a 60-year-old veteran, capable of fighting many weapons that much. but only 20 kilometers away, not much in this war. the army can fire a baton rouge that has hundreds of kilometers. but this is all the soldiers have right now, and they need it. their orders come in, suddenly there is action! they know that they have to move fast. a russian position has been spotted on the front. they are trying to hold back the russian troops from advancing south. and attacking the donbas from yet another front.

they take dusty forest roads to the avoid detection from drones. if they are spotted, they will definitely be targeted. the current lineup their barrage of rockets, and adjust the targets. these grads are not precision weapon. they can fire a full load of 40 1:22 millimeter rockets over a wide area, and under 20 seconds. [noise] they re-check the coordinates. [speaking foreign language] this time they have decided to split the attack into two.

so he instructs him to launch the second 20. [noise] this is what the russians are not of, and what the ukrainians want to see more of. and they say will make all the difference in the war. we have to move quickly now. they have to get out of the area, because they know the russians will be looking to fire on this position, and obliterates the crew. this is what they are up against. the ukrainian government says this shows that the russians are using thermobaric bombs on the donbas. this is what's the most horrific war of the 20th century looks like, the statement said. the ukrainian troops on the frontline are horrifyingly exposed, having to defend large stretches of open land, and keep an enemy at bay who they

are rarely close enough to see. the russians are using their long-range artillery, to constant devastating effect. the smoke that you can see there, shows the russian positions. it's a village that is half controlled by the ukrainians, and half by the russians. [speaking foreign language] chief is asking his troops what the situation is like there? they have been shelled an hour or so earlier. the small band of men have been holding this position for weeks now. coming under constant attack every few hours from russian positions. >> they proudly shows some of the foreign weapons which have helped so far. where is this one from? it's from brighton. they are designed to destroy tanks at short range, with a single shot. and they need little training

to operate. but here, the capability is limited, he tells us. [speaking foreign language] in this position, it isn't that effective. he says. because the tanks do not come closer than three and a half kilometers, and this weapon cannot reach the target at that distance effectively. they need large range artillery, themselves, he says, if they are going to stop this reinvigorated russian invasion. they had some crucial successes they said recently, somehow managing to stop 20 russian tanks from crossing the dam in front of them. and planting our ukrainian flag to say that the territory is still very much theirs for now. >> that was sky news, alex crawford, reporting from the front lines in eastern ukraine. when we come back, we will talk to someone who has spoken recently with president zelenskyy, and understands, perhaps better than anyone.

the challenges of the warhead. former u.s. ambassador michael mcfaul joins us next. don't go anywhere! t go anywhere!

in ukraine, the last sunday in may's kyiv de. a celebration that commemorates

the foundation of the capital city. this, year that celebration took a particular importance as the country enters its 14th week of this devastated war. and, even as the war intensifies in the east, in kyiv, there are signs of normalcy emerging. that includes the arrival, this, week of the u.s. ambassador to ukraine. whose nomination was unanimously improved by the senate, two weeks ago. she feels a role that has been vacant since 2019. a few people are in a better position to talk about what this means and where the war stands at this moment. former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul joins us now. mr. invested or, it is always great to see. thank you for taking the time on this important day. >> sure. >> ambassador brink just tweeted a photo confirming her arrival to kyiv. what does her presence mean to both the united states, ukraine and russia for that matter? >> well, first, we have now a confirmed ambassador and one of the most important diplomatic

missions in the world. that we did not have before. second, we actually have a fantastic investor. i know invested are brink, i've worked with her in the white house, in the obama administration. i think she's a perfect person for this job. and, third, we now have our diplomatic and military presence back in the capital city of kyiv. that is very important for coordinating and talking to the ukrainian government and especially for our military officers to talk directly to ukrainian military officers. it's a big achievement. it's an important achievement. >> well, you recently spoke to maybe the most important officer, the president. president zelenskyy joined do on your podcast. what is his current military assessment at this point? >> well, to be, clear he joined all of stanford on a video, live costs and the talk to lots of our students. and by the, way all tweeted out right now, people should watch it if you want to be inspired. because, after his former remarks, he had a really

interesting interaction with our students on tough issues. the number one thing on his mind was to give his warriors the weapons they need to stop the russians in donbas. it's just that simple. the americans, the biden administration and other allies, nato allies, are providing some weapons, important weapons like one rage artillery. he wants more weapons. he wants better quality and longer range weapons as soon as possible. >> well, it sounded, like from the president earlier today, if we get it right, the united states is not going to be provided long range rockets, those to reach russia. at least, that's what it sounded like from the president. >> yes, i've been in touch with senior administration officials. it's a bit of a gargle. let me try to clarify. so, the president has made the decision to not provide the longest range missile systems that we have, that can strike, as you, said 300 kilometers, all the way deep into russia.

but they are providing other multiple rocket systems that can go a lot farther than the weapons that the ukrainians have today, including that piece that you just shown, fantastic piece by the. way, so if they are providing is more capacity to go farther. but they are not providing the highest capacity, the longest range missiles. >> i know that you have been following what's happening. not just with nato, but the good about the european union. where they are going at this point on possibly banning russian oil. do you think that they're gonna get there? that is a tall order for a lot of those countries. >> you're right. it's a really tall order. but i think it's an essential order. i work with a group of experts that are put together several papers to show why it could be achieved with the economic depression, recession in europe. and, let's just be crystal clear. when we pay for energy that russia ships, we are financing putin's soldiers who are

killing innocent civilians in ukraine. it is just that simple. and that is why think it should stop. >> all right, before we, go i have been wanting to ask you about, this year yellow and blue feet on twitter. you are obviously a massive supporter of ukraine. but you are also a huge fan of the golden state warriors. your team are headed to the nba finals. how are you feeling about this? >> i'm feeling great about this. and blue and gold are good colors for everyone to be wearing. in fact, many of our students are talking to zelenskyy and he noted that. he said that those are really great colors. i don't know that they are warrior fans or ukrainian fans or zelenskyy fans, i'm guessing most for zelenskyy fans. >> well, blue and gold, you can support all of the above. zelenskyy and steph curry, both champions. thank you so much for joining me on this very important memorial day. former u.s. invested or the russia, michael mcfaul. it is right that michael and i get to talk about something wonderful. and his team making it to the finals is absolutely that. i want to thank you all for

joining us today. that does it for me on this hour. msnbc's live coverage continues with my dear friend and colleague, lawrence o'donnell, right after the break. stay with us. stay with us meet ron. that man is always on. and he's on it with jardiance for type 2 diabetes. his underhand sky serve? on fire. his grilling game? on point. and his a1c? ron is on it. with the once-daily pill, jardiance. jardiance not only lowers a1c... it goes beyond to reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease.

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good evening, i'm lawrence. and all of this is our continuing live call average on this memorial day. today, at arlington national cemetery, the presidente