find me at arimelber on any of the platforms if you use them. do you think the florida courts were right to rule against governor desantis or wrong? what do you think about julian epstein's point that some of this is getting out of hand? we can talk about it. thanks for watching "the beat." "the reidout" with joy reid starts right now. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" tonight. one week since a depraved 18-year-old walked into robb elementary school in uvalde, texas and took the lives of 19 defenseless fourth graders and two of their brave teachers. this week begins the next phase for the devastated community as families and friends begin to say good-bye to their loved ones who shu be starting their summer vacations ansel berating birthdays, not being eulogized. today the first two children amerie jo georgia garza and maite rodriguez were laid to

rest. as the city grieves over an unthinkable act and the questions still unanswered, we're looking to the country's elected leadership to finally take a stand, do anything, to help curb this endless cycle of senseless loss. in just the past week since the uvalde, massacre, there have been 18 more mass shootings across this country according to the gun violence archive in places like fresno, california, chattanooga, tennessee, benton harbor, michigan and taft, oklahoma. we just had the funerals for the victims in buffalo, houston and laguna woods, california. now, many more burials are being planned. in fact there have been 231 mass shootings so far this year, more than one per day. just let that sink in. so how would a rational country react to tragedy after tragedy committed with the use of the same weapons of war almost every time? how about expanding background cheques, banning hundreds of types of military-style weapons,

starting a gun buyback program, banning the sale and transfer of large capacity magazines or creating new red flag laws and surrendering your firearms to a police if you're considered a danger. you know who is doing that after the latest texas in canada, and their death rate due to gun violence is a fraction of what it is here in the united states even though canadians have lots of guns, too, but when it comes to our guns, this country is anything but rational. the nra you tons a stranglehold on the republican party and so we continue the cycle from columbine to sandy hook to parkland and now in uvalde of what can only be described as nothing less than nearly complete inaction, just thoughts and prayers and stasis. even something like universal background cheques with 90% from americans has repeatedly failed.

once again we're compelled to ask if this time will be any different? president biden remains optimistic that this could be the time. he tends to be an optimistic guy. he sees the chance for what he calls rational republicans to act on gun reforms adding that the second amendment was never absolute. today he again pointed to the fact that we all can agree on a lot of these tragedies that could have been prevented. >> there's an expression too long of suffering makes a stone of the heart. well, there's an awful lot of suffering. i've been to more mass shooting aftermatz than i think any other president in american history, and just so much of it -- much of it is preventable and the devastation is amazing. >> okay, mr. president. we'll see. by the way, the person sitting next to the president is new

zealand's prime minister jacinda arounder who was able to pass a sweeping ban on most semiautomatic weapons after the deadly terror attacks on two mosques in christchurch, a shooting that inspired the shooter like the one in buffalo. but new zealand acted because that's how a rationally country responds to an horrific attack. joining me now is a member of the "new york times" editorial board and msnbc contributor and tim wise, anti-racism educator and author of "dispatching the race war. ". >> mar, a, there is some ration action that happened. you had vice president harris call for an assault weapons ban. let's play that. >> we are not sitting around waiting to figure out what the solution looks like. you know, we're not looking for a vaccine. we know what works on this. it includes let's have an

assault weapons ban. an assault weapon is a weapon of war with no place, no place in a civil society. >> mara, even walmart has acted on gun reform. you know, they used to sell ar-15s at walmart. you used to be able to walk into walmart and buy one and in 2015 walmart stopped selling them and they stopped selling bump stocks which you could also buy at walmart because it's also a rifle which seems bananas because they could and now they won't do it. that rational but that's not going to happen, right, because it's not a rational system. >> a lot of us live in a rational world and that's why we're so deeply disturned. the problem is congress is not rational and functional and particularly the senate is deadlocked for the reason that we have a minoritaran government at the moment and this is really all about what the senate can do and it's about whether we can

mash arbil and we meaning everyone from walmart to responsible gun owners to people who never want to see or come into contact with a gun in their entire lives, whether we can marshal the political capital and the cultural capital to continue to keep up pressure on lawmakers and on congress to actually move something and make it happen, because what's happening is that republicans in the senate are essentially counting o democrats' inability or disinterest in forcing their hand and they are hoping that the american people will just move on. we can't move on because people are being killed in the streets, children, adults, lives being lost every day to gun violence, so increasingly americans are -- every american is increasingly invested in this issue, and so, you know, it shouldn't be this way, but the question is how do we get the political capital to force their hand and to end the

filibuster so that we can see action? >> right. i mean, tim, look, canada is very -- culturally not that dissimilar from the united states. it's right next to us, and they are able to just make this decision. the prime minister tweeting about the changes they are going to make which makes sense, right? their country is like switzerland. they have lots of gun ownership but they have rational gun laws. other we know what you're looking at. if you look at who the mass shooters are. they are mostly male, 60 to 61 of the active shooters in 2021 are male. males between the ages of 25 and 34. if you go through the mass shootings in schools, it's even more specific. these are people who are basically just out of the age or still in the age where they themselves were doing the high school mass shooter drills because they are 17, 18, even 15 years old. they are somewhat fresh out of high school themselves so they know where the kids are going to

hide, they know what the kids are going to do because they did the drills, too. they are around the same age. majority white males between a certain age, like the profile is there. there's online profiles of the things they say and the threats they make. we know what we're dealing with, but we won't do anything. >> right. look, first off, before i get into the analytical piece of this let me just say our youngest daughter graduated high school this week, and it is not lost on me that in, you know, eight years there are going to be 19 families in uvalde who should be celebrating the same way we were who are not going to get to, and the reason they are not going to get to is because this country loves its guns more than it loves its children. this country loves the ability of an 18 yearly, the day they turn 18, to go buy a weapon of war than they appreciate the right of a 10-year-old to become 11 or 12 or 13 or 18 so let's be very clear. the difference between canada and the united states, australia and the united states, new

zealand and the united states, every industrialized nation in the world versus us is that we fetishize weapons, and let's be very clear. ies had ftorekal precedent for that. the reason that we're so obsessed with guns and personal gun ownership going back to the second amendment is because the founders were so afraid that black people were going to rebel against enslavement, that indigenous people would rebel about being pushed off their land and killed and removed that we wanted to make sure that white men could have all the guns that they could possibly possess in order to put down the racial violence. white men a couple hundred years ago decided we needed to have all the weapons we need to ensideline that in the constitution to defend against those people and the irony now is that white folks, white children, white families just as endangered.

we buy all these weapons in the wake of obama's election, a big upsurge in election, because people were black dude is the president and they are going to take our gun and after ferguson when mike brown was killed, the ferguson uprise, everyone said we have to get guns and the irony is that increase in gun ownership did not lead to the use of self-defensive weapons. it led to an increase in suicide, an increase in homicide. we're a less safe nation for everybody's babies because of this obsession, and this obsess goes back hundred of years so we need to understand the connection between past and present and realize that we're a sick and broken culture. we are not the greatest nation on earth any longer if we ever were. we're a nation committed to an ideology of death and if we want to stop that and save our children, we're going to make a change, and i mean, students should be walking out in the fall refuse to go to class until your parents and grandparents do something to protect you. your parents do not love you

enough. your leader do not love enough, and you shouldn't go to class one day until they decide to do something different. a general strike among young people is what is going to end this thing, and it may be the only thing that does that. >> teachers, right, you have to take your life into your hands to teach fourth grade now. tim is right, mara. this is not just in, you know, there's a tendency to try to put this into the inner city and say let's look at chicago. everywhere. every suburb, every village, the mass shootings are everywhere. they are in the suburbs, white neighborhoods, black neighborhoods. they are everywhere and i wonder if we can get away from it because -- history -- what tim just said is illegal to teach in florida. you're not even allowed to say that and because we don't know that what we're dealing with is this apocalyptic culture on the right, immigration attack list,

demographic attack list, white replacement a apocalypse, how can any republicans find the courage to vote for what would save their own grandkids? >> i have to say i've been a fan of your work, tim, mr. wise. >> me, too. >> so it's a real treat to be on with you. i think your work is very important. i think the answer is found in part in -- in tim's work, right, which is how do you undo that? i mean, you have to confront what white supremacy is and its existence in american life and then you have to ask yourself why is it that we are unable to see ourselves collectively as a nation or as a group of people who have common interests, and, of course, my view is that white supremacy is at the heart of that so if you attack that you can find common interest and then you can learn that, yes, we would rather inconvenience a gun lobe, a gun lobbyist, a gun

owner than we would put our own children in harm's way because we just have it backwards right now. we are more interested in giving rights to lobbyists who are sending their money to congress to have special influence than we are in protecting not just the lives of black and brown children who live in inner cities who by the way their lives are absolutely worth something. >> yeah. >> but also our own children. >> yeah. >> so it is completely insane and the only thing that can explain the insanity with which the united states has reacted is the insanity at root of, you know, what's wrong with the country at the country in my view which is white supremacy and until we confront that and deal with that i don't see how we can possibly find common interests and move forward until everybody else's child is -- has

the same value as your child. it's not going to happen. so that's a lot. >> i wish we had more time. we could do this for an hour. i think we're both super fans you, tim, and i'm also a super fan you, mar a. you're both brilliant. >> and i am as well. >> thank you all very much. everyone should listen to and read that both of these two brilliant people write. thank you very much. next on "the reidout," 78 long minutes, the "new york times" stung moment-by-moment account of how incredibly throng took for police to take action at robb elementary school. plus, the divide between uvalde's leadership and its population which tells you a lot about texas politics. also, trump right-hand man peter navarro reveals that he's been subpoenaed to tell a federal grand jury everything he knows about january 6th. meanwhile, the right promised that trump's special counsel john did durham would expose the truth about all of the right wing conspiracy fantasy. how did that work out? "the reidout" continues after this. ork out?

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this weekend the "new york times" put together an interactive timeline of what happened seven days ago at robb elementary school in uvalde, texas. it lays out in black and white what happened in the 78 minutes between 113:3 a.m. when the killer entered the school and 12:51 p.m. when the school was secured. "the times" used video evidence and statements and accounts of

911 calls to piece together that excruciating hour and 18 minutes. at 11:33 a.m. the gunman enters the school and moves towards two adjoining classrooms, 111 and 112 where teachers were showing the fourth graders a movie. two minutes later three uvalde police officers enter the school, joined later by four more officers. at 11:43 a.m., ten minutes after the shooter entered, the school posts on facebook that it is under lockdown and then e-mails parents. 11 minutes later parents begin to gather at the school. at 12:03, 30 minutes since the gunman entered school there's now as many as 19 police officers inside. a student in room 112 calls 911 pleading for help. more calls would come from the adjoining class roommates. it's in those two classrooms where 19 students and two teachers would die. students in a different classroom escaped through the window. it's been 33 minutes since the shooter entered robb elementary.

at 12:10 a student calls 911 to tell them multiple people are dead. the student calls again and and the student calls again saying eight or nine students are still alive. remember, 19 officers are present in the building. at 12:21 police hear the gunman fire again. they move down the hallway. by 12::35, police had been on the scene for an hour. frantic parents are waiting outside having increasingly tense interactions with police. at 12:5, 77 minutes specially trained border patrol overs enter the classroom and fire 27 times and minutes later children res courted out and frankt patients try to rush to their aid.

>> i want my daughter! i want my daughter! >> why it took 78 minutes to clear the scene is to this day unclear. grieving parents are devastated and a larger community angered by the inaction and they are left demanding answer. with me now is mike baker national correspondent for the "new york times" and the senior policy researcher for the rand corporation, former member of homeland security and a former first responder to the sandy hook shootings and nevin attacks. the "new york times," this was not your piece but it wassens length. it was riveting to watch. you reported on something else that's also relevant. if you go through the timeline one would think that the police officers involved had no training in this area but you report something different, that they did do active shooter training. tell us about that. >> that's right. they started their active shooter train begun two years ago. they did it as recently again as two months ago, and this wasn't

just, you know, theoretical training inside of a classroom but in-person training, in hallways where they would role play scenarios of what an active shooter would be like and how they would respond to it. it brought together multiple agencies from around the area so they could figure out how to work together and in the class room, you know, they were learning how to respond quickly and that the emphasis, the priority was get in there quickly and confront the gunman and stop the killing. that's the priority. >> but donald harbin, you know from having done this work, training to run in and pretend to confront somebody that's got an ar-15 which is basically an m-16 but not automatic, it's similar to what they use in war. it's different to train to run in and confront a pretend shooter and a real shooter and most police don't actually do that on a regular basis. most of their job does not require them to run into armed fire, right, so the training doesn't necessarily do any good.

>> that's correct. last week when you had me on i said i would like to dover and give deference to law enforcement and it's been a week and i actually have a question. where are the letters of resignation at this point? we've had an entire week. we've seen all that we need to see. i'm happy that the doj is going to come in and do an investigation, but where's the accountability? we sat here and watch a police lieutenant last week that said his officers didn't engage because they were scared to get shot. are you serious? you're scared to get shot. what about those people's children? >> let me ask you this. brittany cunningham was on with tiffany cross this weekend and she made a brilliant point. she was a teacher and has been in the position that the republicans would like to put teachers in, that they should be the ones to fire back. this has been litigated. police have litigated all the way to the supreme court in a decision written by justice antonin scalia that police do not have a constitutional duty to protect people. they actually don't. you think about what happens in police shootings of civilians.

what they say is i feared for my life. therefore, i shot this person. they win ton that because they actually constitutionally have litigate that had they don't have to put their own lives in darker, they can prioritize their own safety and we've written that into the law and jack cosby wrote a great piece for "rolling stone." think about the interactions outside the school and the way parents were treated. he wrote this. the part of a police officers' job that they are really good at is projecting physical force on to whatever element of society the state dream undesirable and it means they are really good at beating up people who annoy them. that's not to minimize the job of the police officer but for most part controlling the physical behavior of people in front of them is what they do other than be active social workers. running into live fire isn't something that they don't. >> but it's something they do every time they put the uniform

on. everyone who has active shooter, you don't wait for the shooting to stop. you go in and engage. if you're noting to do that, you shouldn't put the badge and the uniform on. >> just for your reporting, mike, there is a key -- his name is period arredondo who is who was bizarrely in charge even when the feds arrived. is there any indication that he's fully cooperating? nbc has some reports that he may not be fully cooperating with these inquiries. >> we heard today that the state authorities that are asking him, they asked him for a follow yup interview two days ago and have not heard back at this point. they are hearing that the agency itself overall, other parts of the agency are cooperating and are involved in the investigation, but there's a bit of a delay. it's unclear right now why that delay is happening and why the

chief hasn't responded to that inquiry at this point. >> yeah. >> and there's a lot of anger at this point, i think understandably, because had you parents outside yelling at these officers run in there. get in there and kid my kid. stories of police officers who went in and got their open kids and got them out but there was a hesitancy. i guess a natural hesitancy to run in. at this point is there any argument that somehow the teachers should have been willing to shoot the gunman because that seems to me completely nonsensical when the police weren't willing to do it. >> certainly nonsensical. we've said this before. i'm on record. i don't think we need to be arming our teachers. they have a hard enough time teaching. this entire scenario is essentially a hot buffet of ineptitude and missed opportunities from leaving the door ajar and letting a shooter that was shooting outside first walk into the school unobstructed, to not getting the

message out that there was an active shooter and then, you know, you had more law enforcement outside stopping parents from going inside. we've seen stories of one person who was in the barber shop got up, got a shotgun from the barber, drove there and got kids out. another parent who was handcuffed got unhandcuffed and went in there and this is going to be studied for a long time and this shouldn't have happened. >> yeah? and to be quite honest, up until last week texas was really the gold standard in training and how to do active shooter response. we'll take a look at it and doj will get in there. there's a lot of inestitude in there n. >> lastly, was this a failure of training or a failure of valor? >> well, you know, i think it's probably both. i think as a law enforcement officer you're trained to act independently and you rely on your training. we see that every day. they should have gone in and engaged, and then at the top there needs to be answers.

>> yeah, yeah. >> maybe not put the school police chief in charge of an operation like this. we'll see what happens. thank you both. up next, remember the guy who yelled at beto o'rourke during last week's press conference. >> sit down. >> you're out of line and an embarrassment. >> sit down. >> we will take a deeper look into the politicians who represent the town of uvalde after the break. who represent the town of uvalde after the break. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it.

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last week beto o'rourke disrupted the texas governor's press conference on the uvalde massacre telling greg abbott that the shooting was totally predictable and that he has done nothing. there was one particularly outraged politician on stage sitting in the back row in a blue shirt who interrupted beto saying, sir, you're out of line calling him a sick son of a "b" for politicizing the tragedy. that individual is the republican mayor of uvalde. his name is don mclaughlin. he was elected to his first term in 2014 and hats won re-election three times since. but for someone who is the mayor of a town reeling from an unthinkable tragedy where funerals began today and the 21 dead, including 19 fourth graders, mclaughlin has been pretty quiet at these press conferences, saying very little of substance. what he does speak, he does as his party does, doming the issue

of guns. >> right now there's 28 million plus people in texas. you know how many mental hospital beds there are available, no more than 1,000 in the whole state of texas, and that's sad, and i'm not -- look, guns play a role in this, too, i'm not downplaying that either and i don't want to get into a second amendment but it took a person to pull the trigger of that gun so we need it address both issues. >> joining me now is the president and ceo of voter latino. she's heading to ufld toe honor the victims and to host a call to action in san antonio on saturday. thank you. always great to see you. great to see you. let's talk about this for a second. there was this op-ed that one of my producers noticed and sent out to our team which was really bracing. tea called i'm from uvalde. i'm not surprised this happened.

he's a fifth generation texan. uvalde has 15,000-plus residents, 81%, almost 82% are latino and hispanic. the median income is very low, 41,000, 21% live in poverty. what do you make of that, this idea that there's this divide in uvalde between the rich, very white part of it and the part of it that actually used to up until many decades ago, uvalde, used to be segregated where the shooting took place. >> this is what we see in all of southern texas. it's not unusual that we see this divide and one of the challenges that uvalde is going to have is coming together again, recognizing we are a family and where the children are. one second, i have an echo. i don't know if you hear it. >> yeah, maybe turn down your

tv. >> never mind. it's -- it's behind the curtains, joy. >> yes. >> so i think one of the bickest challenges, as a result i had a conversation with the state senator roland gutierrez and he was very clear that it was shocking and sad that it happened in the part of the school that was 80% latino in the part of time that oftentimeses is forgotten and that the response was so low. this is an opportunity he said for uvaldans to come together and also to recognize that the segregation written in that op-sed very real, and he was describing a situation where many of the families just feel like after decades of trying and protesting that change hasn't happened so they have stopped participating, and one of the reasons we're going to uvalde is to speak to recognize the pain but also recognize that the biggest challenge to texas right now is that it's a non-voting state. only 40% of latinos participated in the last election.

only 40% of african-americans participated in the last election. we're talking about 3.5 million eligible voters that if they cast a ballot they would change the trajectory, not just in texas but of the country and that's what we have to recognize is that there is power of the voting booth but have you to heal and have you to have action at the same time, joy. >> and i really appreciate you saying that because there's been a lot of people posting how can this man who is not latino and who is very conservative, very anti-immigrant, very much build the wall, that kind of republican keep getting elected, and, you know, you and i talked about this uncertain narrow districts the district is uvalde is in. it went for hillary clinton and then narrowly for trump. it's 50-50. a, latinos are not a monolith, b, it's very low turnout. that's how somebody like that can keep getting elected. it's very hard to vote in texas. >> this district, elections are often won but literally less than 2,000 votes but there are

80 folks that aren't registered to vote. that's where the rub is, and so not just the tragedy what have happened with uvalde. the fact that ever since el paso they have -- they have really neglected the responsibility of providing real gun reform that most texans actually want and on top of that you have the ban on the women's right to abortion. it just keeps piling up and it's all sadly on the shoulders of young people of color in texas. just since the last election in 2020 we've had over 3,000 young latino and african american youth turning 18. what is on the ballot is what is the future of yourself and the country and the state of texas? where do you want to live, and do you want to live in a place that's segregated or in a place that's inclusive and recognizes you as a human? >> and it couldn't take 11 minutes for police to respond to an active shooter call. that the first thing that got my

senses going. in wealthy communities, it don't take 11 minutes. you've got your sirens on. you're meeting down and it took that long to even respond at all. that got me very concerned. >> i had a conversation with a senator, state senator there, and basically what you're echoing is what he shared with me. if that had been a different part of town it wouldn't have taken so long and there would have been a different response rate. when you start looking at the statistics and the response rates, the utter failure of that police department, you do have to take a step back and question what did race play into it. >> yes. >> and at the end of the day these are children and families who are suffering and our job first is to help grieve with them and then make sure that texas takes charge of their state. >> absolutely. and i think also we have to bring you back -- there's a complicated conversation that democrats need to learn to have with latino voters because this is also a town with lots of gun

ownership and you have to learn how to talk to people who are religious, a very catholic and democrats need to learn to speak that language and speak to people where they are and talk about their interests. we've got to the come back and do more. we'll be following what you're doing in uvalde this weekend. thank you. >> hope you can join us. we'll be in san antonio. >> cheers. thank you. up next, the justice department has subpoenaed former trump aide peter navarro in their january 6th probe. as things are heating up in georgia where a grand jury will begin hearing testimony regarding trump owes role in the 2020 election. stay with us. garding trump owese 2020 election. stay with us

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visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started. nor a sign that the justice department section poppeding its investigation into the january 6th insurrection, former white house trump adviser peter navarro says he's been subpoenaed by a grappled jury and to turn over documents involving any correspondence with the former president. peter navarro says the committee is illegal. navarro is representing himself and says the subpoena is based on a house serafina earlier this year and should be thrown out. it comes as the criminal investigation into the president's former scheme to overturn japhet you're election result is heating up. as many as 15 people could be subpoenaed by that grand jury with testimony in that case set

to be begin next week. a favorite republican obsession came crashing down. the first verdict from special prosecutor john durham's probe into the origins into the investigation into the president's former ties to russia ended in defeat. a jury acquitted former clinton campaign lawyer michael sauceman on charges of lying to the fbi. sussman was accused of misrepresenting himself with a meeting with the fbi general counsel in 2016. i'm joined by a professor of the university of alabama school of law. let's go in reers have. the sussman obsession, the obsession with the origins of the trump investigation, that was pretty quick. the deliberations were pretty briefing, and the jurors who spoke to the press said it wasn't even a question, wasn't political. they just didn't have a case. where do you think that leaves the durham investigation, and why is that investigation still happening? >> so john durham has one case left to try, another false statements case involving someone who was supposed a

source on the steele report, but clearly this special counsel investigation is out of gas. it was peddled as a vehicle for exposing this massive conspiracy of the fbi that was out to get trunchl and we turned out to. >> this one case here. the fbi played out as victims. it was always a weak case, a case that wasn't compelling, should never have gone to trial and in essence shows what the jurors said as she walked out of the courthouse that they could have used their time in far better ways than hearing this case and deliberating. >> let's talk navarro, an incredibly unpleasant finance guy who had to,plan to overturn the election. he's trying to claim that despite the fact that the biden administration has said you don't get to have -- he thinks that he can hold donald trump's decision to sort of hold his

testimony away and say that biden can't undo that. that's not true, right? it's up to the biden administration whether or not he can have that kind of immunity. >> even if there was executive privilege in this situation which there arguably isn't it's absolutely up to biden at this point. courts have made that clear. the supreme court has refused to intervene, and, joy, i'm not sure that donald trump has actually asserted privilege in this setting, so navarro is just hitting bad notes all the way around here. >> you tweeted earlier that the fact that he's been subpoenaed means he's probably not a target. what could be his usefulness? he could be seen as ains w.doj doesn't usually subpoena target. if they want to give someone who is a target the opportunity to explain their side of the case in the grand jury, it's usually in negotiation with lawyers, and that's a little bit difficult here because mr. navarro apparently does not have a lawyer. i cringe every time i see that

and wish he would get a lawyer, but he is the person who explained that he understood how, you know, this sort of proposal that will would have fake slates of electors with mike pence sort of leading charge, he was the one who masterminded, it according to him. he knew how it worked. nded, it leading the chargehim. he kne.w how it wor he was theked. one who mastermid it, according to him. he knew how it worked, he wrote a big memo, that was circulated to members of congress. so he could, in many senses, be a witness of the doj has decided he is not a target. >> how do these cases fit together? you have the georgia case, which was the direct to ask where trump said, get me the votes, i need this many, 11, 000, x number, give me that. then you had senator lindsey graham, also saying, can you give him the votes. then you hand, which seems to be, a very well coordinated plan, with the memos, et cetera, to try to stop the certification of biden's victory. as you said, fake electors. do these cases, at some point,

converge? or do they stay separate? >> great question. i think what you are asking, is this one big overarching conspiracy, with a criminal mastermind at the top, or, is this a lot of separate plots, to try and overturn the election going on? in essence, a parallel play among different, maybe slightly overlapping groups of people. we don't know the answer, for certain, or, to put a finer point on it, we don't know how doj used the evidence for certain. there is some suggestion that there is a different grand jury member on it, the subpoenas that have been sent out in, the fakes elate of electra's case, in fact, there could be more than one investigation ongoing. but, if this is one conspiracy, it is an awfully big, unwillingly case to prosecute. the doj may do better to view it in manageable bites, or manageable chunks. >> does it require everyone

involved in the conspiracy to understand that violence would be a part of the plan? >> it doesn't. i think that this notion that violence had to be involved is something that we can dispense with. yes, there are charges that would require this evidence, of a desire to use violence, this is a dishes conspiracy charge, but, if you are looking at a charge that involves an effort to interfere with congress, and its work to certify the election, that is a legitimate, serious charge here. it doesn't require evidence of violence. that is a nonstarter. >> and it's not illegal to object to the slates of electors. democrats have done it, republicans have done it, that, in and of itself, is not proof of a crime. >> that's absolutely right. it is part of the process. so, what the doj needs to assess here is, was there a concerted plan to overthrow the election, using these fake slates of electors, as a

vehicle, as a means, of getting their. >> basically, cheating, instead of just a objecting. sliding in fake electors. it feels like i'm taking a little law school class on the readout. i really appreciate you joyce vance, i really do. up next, on the readout, today, superstar k-pop band bts visited the white house to talk to reporters about the rise in aapi hate facing our nation. and, what we all can do to end this violence. stay with us. stay with us ounded lively. affordable, high-quality hearing aids with all of the features you need, and none of the hassle. i use lively hearing aids and it's been wonderful. it's so light and so small but it's a fraction of the cost of the other devices. they cost thousands less. it's insanely user friendly. you take the hearing test online, the doctor programs in the settings. you don't even need to go into an office. they're delivered to your door in a few days and you're up and running in no time. it connects via bluetooth to my phone.

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did a triumphant, tragic, frustrating, or ridiculous. but some days, like today, or simply iconic. with korean pop megastar, as bts, joining the white house daily press briefing to make remarks, with the help of a translator, about asian inclusion, and the ongoing crisis of attacks against asian americans. >> we were devastated by the recent surge of hate crimes. it is not wrong to be different, and equality begins when we open up, and embrace our differences. everyone has their own history. we hope today is one step forward to respecting, and understanding each, and everyone. >> since her debut in 2014, bts has become a global pop sensation. an american phenomenon. their fan base, known as the bts army, is a broad coalition,

operating as a force for political activism. reportedly, raising $1 million for black lives matter in less than one day. so, it less it comes as no surprise that the k way from the white house. the white house, today, to address anti asian hate, on the last day of asian american and pacific islander heritage month. a month that came with more tragedy than celebration. when a man, motivated by political hatred, opened fire on a taiwanese congregation in california. where people worship. killing one, injuring five. with three korean women, and shot at a dallas hair salon, part of a pattern of shootings at asian businesses in the area. a disturbing echo of the atlanta spa massacre's, were asian women were targeted in their workplaces. all the while, attacks on asian american civilians continue and is a difficult time right now. a tragic time. this week, america will bury 19 children from one school, after laying to rest those killed in the racist attack in buffalo. as americans mourn, and search

for answers, asian americans will continue to fight to live authentically, and freely. long after heritage month is over, as well black people, and lgbtq people, women, and indigenous people, and children, who simply want to feel safe at school. so, on the last day of a chaotic, devastating month, let's tap into that k-pop stand playbook, let's make gun reform, and voting, american phenomenon to. phenomenon to all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on all in -- >> we are introducing legislation to implement a national freeze on hand gun ownership. >> canada boldly goes where america refuses. >> why only in america? why is this america sectionalism so awful? >> tonight, what we know about on how to stop the american gun crisis and what is