pandemic, people who have been recognized by her majesty, the members of the royal family were there, you can see them now starting to go into st. paul's cathedral, st. paul's cathedral is the place why previous jubilees have been celebrated right back to queen victoria, this magnificent christopher ren church in the middle of london. the queen herself, however, will not be there today. this is a service of thanksgiving she had really wanted to attend. and it is with some disappointment, to the people in britain and also to the palace that she was feeling some discomfort. i think on "morning joe" we said she was looking spritely, she was. she was looking great and came out again last night, windsor castle, to start the lighting of these beacons across the country. but the decision was made by the palace yesterday late afternoon that it was just too much for

her majesty to travel from windsor castle outside london to the center of london st. paul's cathedral and get inside the cathedral. she would have to, even though there was discussions of could she go in through the side entrance, not do the what all the dignitaries are doing, she could have gone in through a side entrance, even that it was decided it was too much for the 96-year-old monarch. it was great for the country to see her yesterday. the world appreciated seeing her on the balcony. she has been frail. she has mobility issues and the decision then was made last night she wouldn't be attending the service of remembrance. not attending either, the duke of york, prince andrew, disgraced really in the royal family because of the accusations he denies of sexual abuse, he will not be there either, and that's because he tested positive yesterday for covid. so he's absent. the queen is absent. the service will be led then from the royal family side by prince charles.

there will be kate and william, harry and meghan, the sussexes will also be there, we will see them. we didn't see much of them yesterday. a grainy photograph on a balcony was caught yesterday watching the celebrations. we'll see them as well. the service is expected to last for an hour and it kicks off jonathan lemire in 20 minutes' time. all the coverage here in london later on in the program. >> katty kay, good morning. the queen's appearances yesterday, she was spritely. i think that's the word we used here. she seemed in very good health in that particular moment. my question to you is, i know she won't be able to make the service. should we expect to see her during any other point during this long weekend to celebrate her jubilee? >> this is the one, jonathan, she really wanted to go to. this is a country that is basically a secular country, 5% of the british population goes to church on a regular basis. but the queen herself is a woman of deep faith. she in 2014 she said that faith

was the anchor in her life. she speaks about her faith in her christmas broadcast every year. she talks about how she follows the teachings and the life of christ. that's quite unusual for british leader and we know that faith matters to her a lot. so this is the moment she really wanted to attend. our palace sources are telling us the two bits of the thanksgiving -- the whole platinum jubilee celebration she wanted to go to were the balcony, she made yesterday, and this service of thanksgiving. so it is a deep disappointment to her she won't be here. it is unlikely that we'll see her at other events, a horse race tomorrow, if the queen loves anything at all, jonathan, it is her horse racing and her races. she doesn't have a horse, i understand, running at the esom derby tomorrow. the mobility issues are causing her -- she did look spritely. that wonderful -- i think i called it dusky dove blue outfit she wore. she looks frail. she looks diminutive and she

decided to watch this, we understand, from the palace, she is watching this at the moment on television. >> you received high marks for your description of the queen's outfit yesterday. thanks for this. we'll be checking back with you throughout the morning in london. also today, it marks 100 days since the russian invasion of ukraine. in a few minutes we'll have the latest in the conflict that is now reshaped part of eastern europe. the president of the council on foreign relations richard haass is with us for that. you see him there. also with us, msnbc contributor mike barnicle and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post," eugene robinson. in just a moment, we're going to play for you president biden's forceful primetime address urging congress to take action on gun reform. plus, the moment in a house hearing about gun violence when a republican congressman proudly showed off his stash of home weapons. extraordinary scene there. first, we're going to begin with new details in some of the mass

shootings that were the backdrops of the president's emotional address last night. police say the man who shot and killed four people at a hospital in tulsa, oklahoma, bought one of the guns used just hours before the attack. nbc news correspondent blayne alexander has more on what investigators are learning. >> reporter: the first calls were chilling. >> we're going to have to get in this door. i don't know if it is him. but i see blood and hear somebody moaning. >> reporter: an orthopedic hospital in tulsa, oklahoma, now the latest scene of a mass shooting. police say the gunman, 45-year-old michael lewis, walked into his doctor's office late wednesday, armed with two guns, and a vendetta. police say he recently had back surgery. his surgeon, dr. preston phillips, police later found a letter on the gunman laying out his clear target and motive. >> he came in with the intent to kill dr. phillips. and anyone who got in his way. he blamed dr. phillips for the

ongoing pain following the surgery. >> reporter: after his surgery in late may, the gunman called the office repeatedly, police said, complaining of pain, even going back for a follow-up appointment. may 29th, three days before the shooting, he legally purchased a handgun. then on wednesday, police say he called the office repeatedly, later that day buying an ar-15 rifle just three hours before the attack. >> the suspect, when he came into the building, into that office complex, he began firing, he began firing at anyone that was in his way. >> reporter: officers were on the scene within five minutes. as they approached police say the gunman turned the weapon on himself. >> the tulsa police department responded very quickly and without that quick response this could have been a much bigger situation. >> reporter: still, four victims were left in his wake. a amanda glenn, a receptionist and dr. stephanie heusen,

william love, a patient in the office. >> the family of mr. love, i'm so sorry we couldn't save you. >> reporter: and dr. preston phillips, killed in an exam room. sam combs is a long time friend and patient. >> to have a doctor who prays with you, and for you, before and after your surgery, that was preston. >> nbc's blayne alexander reporting. in 2020, oklahoma passed the nation's first anti-red flag law, which bars communities in the state from passing any ordinance allowing police to seize guns from people who may be a danger to themselves or others. red flag laws, of course, at the center of the current national debate on gun reform. oklahoma already got out ahead of it and against it. we're learning more about last week's shooting massacre involving texas. there is a disturbing new claim about the 911 calls for help from inside the robb elementary school where 19 children and 2 teachers were killed.

this as the investigation into the gunman continues. nbc news correspondent morgan chesky has the latest from texas. >> i can only say -- i can only say we're sorry. >> reporter: state senator roland gutierrez sharing stunning new details about a communication breakdown. >> the 911 calls were not being communicated to the so-called incident commander. >> reporter: gutierrez says those calls first went to uvalde police. and not pete arredondo, the school's chief of police, in charge of the response, who told officers to wait. >> to know one person who should have been receiving those 911 calls was not being briefed, how big of a failure do you see here? >> this is a tremendous failure. isd level, school police, state troopers, federal government, even for the federal agents that were here, they still waited. >> reporter: new search warrants obtained by nbc news painting a grim picture of the gunman's arsenal. in his pickup truck alone, investigators recovered a smith & wesson m&p 15 rifle, the

standard for military and police. also inside, 15 rifle magazines, each loaded and capable of holding up to 30 rounds. how heavy is the heart of uvalde? >> extremely heavy. >> reporter: local pastor julian called uvalde home for decades, living blocks from robb elementary, where he stood outside last tuesday and prayed. >> i asked god for a miracle. and i said, if it doesn't happen, give me the strength to overcome. >> reporter: hoping for a miracle for everyone inside, including his great granddaughter lexi rubio, who didn't make it out. >> lexi was a beautiful child. she loved to go to school. she loved her grandmother's chicken tacos. >> nbc's morgan chesky with that report. and so, after uvalde, and tulsa, and buffalo, and the hundreds of mass shootings the

country has already seen this year, president biden delivered an impassioned primetime address last night, pleading with congress, to take action on guns. the president urged lawmakers to ban assault style weapons and high capacity magazines. to expand background checks and to pass red flag laws. the 20 minute address came on the eve of this national gun violence awareness day. the president shared this message from the grieving families and communities he's met with over the last few weeks. >> they had one message for all of us, do something. just do something. for god's sake, do something. after columbine, after sandy hook, after charleston, after orlando, after las vegas, after parkland, nothing has been done. this time that can't be true. this time we must actually do something. for so many of you at home, i

want to be very clear, this is not about taking away anyone's guns. it is not about vilifying gun owners. in fact, we believe we should be treating responsible gun owners as an example of how every gun owner should behave. i respect the culture and the tradition, the concerns of lawful gun owners. at the same time, the second amendment, like all other rights, is not absolute. over the last two decades, more school-aged children have died from guns than on duty police officers and active duty military combined. think about that. more kids, on duty cops killed by guns, more kids and soldiers killed by guns. for god's sake, how much more carnage are we willing to accept? how many more innocent american lives must be taken before we

say enough, enough? >> president biden wrapped up those remarks on gun violence at 7:48 p.m. eastern time. just three minutes later, another shooting took place in the united states. this time in ames, iowa, where authorities say a man shot and killed two women outside a church before turning the gun on himself. according to local sheriff's office, there was an event going on at the church involving college-aged students. no gunfire took place inside. three minutes after the president finished his remarks. those remarks were at times angry, at times frustrated, as times sad. we heard him deliver that message from the families of those impacted by the shootings. do something. united states congress, is it going to do anything? >> i doubt it. they won't do enough. they might actually do something. i tend to be more optimistic now than at any point over the last ten years about this crisis that america is going through. to the president's appearance

last night, in terms of content and delivery, i think it was about the best he's had as president of the united states and the reason, jonathan, you covered the white house, you've covered him for a long time, is that was him talking. that's how he feels about the situation. and if he was sitting there, in your chair now, talking to you about it, it would be the same tone, the same manner, and the same outrage and anger he displayed last night, especially the clip that we just showed. enough, enough. and gene, i don't know what your take on the speech was, but i thought that he has not done better ever in addressing this war that we're involved in, and this crisis with guns. >> well, i tend to agree, mike. i thought it was a powerful speech. i think you're exactly right. this was the president speaking from the heart, speaking -- it

doesn't come more authentic than that. that that was joe biden pleading, pleading with congress, pleading with the nation, pleading especially with the senate, you know, for god's sake do something. enough. and the repetition of the word enough, which he used, i think, 11 times in the speech was extremely powerful. now, does that mean we should be optimistic? i wish. i want to share your optimism that at least something, however inadequate, will get done. it's hard to even get there. it is hard to even get to that point of optimism after all we

have seen over the last 10, 20 years of congress, especially republicans in congress, let's be honest, ignoring these brutal, unconscionable shootings. not just in schools, but in every sort of location you can think of across the country. this is a crisis that does not abate, that continues day in and day out in this country, and congress does nothing. and when it could do something, when it could do a lot. president biden outlines specific steps that congress certainly can take that would

pass constitutional muster under the supreme court heller's decision as justice scalia wrote the second amendment rights are not unlimited. second amendment is not a right to keep and bear whatever weapon you want, wherever we want, whenever you want. it is not. and there can be reasonable restrictions. but will there be. will this time be different? and it is, you know, you have to hope, but it's hard to get to where you can predict that it actually is different this time. i sure wish it were. i hope it is. >> as the president spoke last night, you see the image there, he's flanked by candles on either side of him. each candle represents a state in which there has been a mass shooting this year. there were 50. in fact, there were 56 because there are also six american territories where there have

been mass shootings this year. richard, he called for a ban on assault weapons, but soon there after he took a half step back and said at the very least, let's raise the age for purchase from 18 to 21. just three years. but seems in a recent spate of shooting, so many suspects are in that range. that seems look a small but yet potentially meaningful step. the president seemed to think and the aides feel like there may be some momentum there. read the room. will the republicans go for something even like that? >> you have to limit the weaponry or who has access to it, with background checks or age limits. seems to me that might be a slightly less difficult reach than trying to limit the weaponry. though i think the president, what i liked about his speech, was his reaching out to gun owners. we're not against legitimate second amendment rights, he didn't vilify people, he

basically -- i thought educated and explained. i thought it was reasonable. the problem is i'm not sure how much space there is to be reasonable in this conversation. the american politics are always driven not by majority numbers, driven by the intensity of minorities. and the minority brings to this issue an intensity that the majority does not. and the question is can the president marshal the moment in order to change the political dynamics here. we'll find out soon enough. >> the senate groups are meeting now. they return to session next week. katty kay. the queen's jubilee is the focus in london. we heard it time and again, the united states is the only country where mass shootings like this happen routinely. had one last night, minutes after the president finished speaking. what is the view over there? the uk, one of our closest allies, one that has a gun culture very different than ours, what is the sense? is there a shaking of head, a disbelief that in london, in the united kingdom that this keeps happening over and over here in

the united states of america? >> yeah. i think disbelief and shaking of head is probably about right. every time this happens in the united states it highlights, again, a fundamental rift between other western countries and america. america is as you say, jonathan, the only country where this happens on a regular basis. when it happened here in the united kingdom in the 1980s, that building behind me, parliament, they passed a law banning assault weapons. when it happened again in scotland in the 1990s, they passed another law, banning handguns. now the united kingdom has of all industrialized countries the lowest number of shootings of any country in the industrialized west. you can change things. that was a conservative government. it was a conservative government. in australia, that passed similar laws with mandatory buyback programs when they had a mass shooting in the 1990s. government can do things. parliament did something. they can make changes. but it takes political will.

and i think richard is right, you have this what le monde newspaper after the uvalde shooting called the dictatorship of the minority. you can get your minority galvanized enough, it doesn't matter what the opinion polls say because your politicians will act on what the minority wants. i would be interested to hear richard's take on the degree to which mass shootings in the united states have an impact on america's standing in the world? is this actually becoming perhaps going too far to say a national security issue, but is this something that has an impact on how other countries see america and feeds into some sense of distrust over the united states' reliability as a country, as a democracy? >> the short answer, katty, yes. we're an outlier, not just on this. we saw it on covid with the whole refusal to avail yourself of vaccines, to wear masks, we see it with opioids. they see it with our politics.

other countries, particularly those dependent on us, see us, they basically use the phrase head shaking, it makes them uneasy about their dependence because they say to themselves, we do not recognize or understand this country. and we are uneasy putting all of our eggs or security in its hands. and that's what i think the reaction is among our allies. our foes like this, they point to this as a sign of democratic dysfunction and the chinese and the russians say this is why our authoritarian methods are better, we don't have these sorts of problems at home. >> the power of the minority, we heard from the loudest voice in the minority in washington, mitch mcconnell, repeatedly this week, saying focus is going to be on mental health and school safety. not anything on guns. still ahead here on "morning joe," that conversation is going to continue and we're also going to have former homeland security secretary jeh johnson. he says the only way to spur change on gun legislation may be to show graphic images to the

public. he's going to be our guest later this morning to explain his argument for that. plus, the war in ukraine has reached 100 days with no end in sight. we're going to have the latest on where the fighting stands and the debate over whether ukraine should give up territory in order to end the war. also ahead, the house committee investigating the january 6th attack formally announces the date of its first hearing and it is expected to be a made for tv moment. we'll tell you how the committee plans to get things started. you're watching "morning joe." we're going to be right back. ng" we're going to be right back

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the war in ukraine enters its 100th day today.

and president volodymyr zelenskyy says russian forces now control nearly 20% of his country. addressing luxembourg's parliament yesterday, zelenskyy said the front line was over 600 miles long, and fierce battles were currently raging from the northeast to the south. he added, however, that ukrainian forces had some success in the south, where they gained control of 20 small towns and villages. but added the situation remained grim in eastern ukraine. zelenskyy said around 100 people were dying and more than 400 were suffering injuries on a daily basis there as russian forces have stepped up attacks in recent weeks in their bid to control the entire donbas region. meanwhile, ukraine's first lady elena zelenska is rejecting any suggestions that ukraine should give up any territory to end this war. in an interview with abc news yesterday, she said, you just can't concede, it is like conceding a freedom. zelenska also said she has no idea when the war will end.

adding that it is a difficult question that her 9-year-old son also keeps asking her. the first lady thanked the united states for its, quote, enormous support, but implored americans to not get used to this war. here's more of her comments, we added some english translation at the bottom of the screen.

>> that's the bet vladimir putin is making, that the united states and the rest of the west will get used to this war, that their attention will wander, that their commitment now to send money and military equipment to ukraine will wane. speak to us there about what is the situation in the uk, there in europe, are they still prepared to supply ukraine with what it needs, even if this war has a significant economic toll and could last for months if not a year? >> yeah, this is something that i'm told ukrainian officials were raising as a concern within days of the russian invasion back in february. they knew that the world would be focused intently on ukraine for a period of time. and then other news would get in the way. we had an awful lot of news in the u.s., here in europe as

well, and on top of that news overload, if you like, understandably people are watching news in their own countries, there is also the economic effect as you're saying, jonathan, in terms of higher prices. wait until we get into the fall when we're not getting grain levels we might have normally expected out of ukraine because fields have not been planted, because farmers are either busy or because those fields are being bombed. so we know there is going to be a food crisis and we're really going to start feeling that come the fall and that's when the real crunch and that will be the period too when the high energy prices, europeans have to heat their homes with gas, and those prices go up as well. but, richard, you look at the state of the war at the moment, perhaps people haven't been paying as close attention to it as they were early on, the news militarily for ukraine coming out of the east is not looking as good as it was in those early days of the war when they managed to repel that convoy advancing on kyiv. what has been the nato response

to the situation in the east? what are we seeing nato countries give ukraine that perhaps they weren't giving them before? >> before i answer that, let me take one step back. here we are at the 100-day point. and 100 days ago, if we had a conversation, where would ukraine be now, if it faced an enormous russian invasion, and we were told that things would stand, where in fact they do, we probably would have said wow, that's pretty impressive that ukraine with the help of europe, the united states, would be able to stand up to this massive russian military onslaught, kyiv would hold, the country would remain sovereign, yesterday would be problems in the south and the east. so from that perspective, i actually think what has been accomplished over the last 100 days is extraordinary. and most of the predictions were wrong and the direction of being way too negative. but as you say, the trends are not good. mass, sheer volume counts. this is a war that russia is now concentrating geographically in the east and the south.

they're not trying to take the entire country. and they are pounding and doe mollishing town after town, village after village and ukraine is paying an increasing price, not just civilian population, but also its military. so nato countries are -- the flows of money, the flows of military aid, intelligence, are continuing, but russia, again, has certain advantages in this phase of the war they didn't have earlier because, again, their forces aren't spread thin. their forces don't need to be mobile. this phase of the war is playing more to russia's strength rather than its weaknesses. and i think we're going to be with this for a long time, not just weeks, not just months, but open ended. this is -- and putin is counting on it. what began there, he's counting that we have issue fatigue, issue competition, he can at some point turn off energy to germany or some other country, to italy, to cause resistance there. he's hoping essentially he has more staying power than does the

west. but that's going to be the test going forward. ukraine's ability to resist, and our ability to continue to help it. >> so, richard, on a couple of different scores, political, economic and military, within ukraine, there seems to be an increasing push or thought process going on in this country and other allied countries about what ukraine ought to do in terms of potential negotiations. but it seems to me and others, i think, that we are proceeding as if that's our war, our country, it is not. it is ukraine. the other aspect of it that is troubling, i would think, for a lot of people, is that clearly food is now a hostage. and putin is using food as a hostage. that gets us to odesa. a pivot point in this war. what is your feeling about the thought process that has been

out there, the ideas that have been thrown out there, about an allied peacekeeping force in the black sea making sure that food can be transported out of odesa, and into the world at large? >> let's take the second thing. the idea of getting to the ports. right now the russian blockade is essentially limiting what goes into ukraine, obviously limiting what goes out, and the rest of the world is paying an enormous price. we will see food riots in parts of africa, the middle east and so forth. the problem is for the same reasons, mike, we shied away from sending soldiers putting boots on the ground, and the same reason that we didn't establish a no-fly zone, in order to get a convoy to basically escort merchant vessels in and out, we would have to be willing to essentially have conflict with the russian navy. ukraine doesn't have a navy anymore. so up to now we have been reluctant, if you will, to take that kind of a step. it may get to the point where we are prepared to lean forward

more, we're not going to get u.n. backing, it is the kind of thing that would have to be a nato humanitarian effort. but up to now we have shied away from that type of direct military involvement that would quite possibly bring about an incident or worse with the russians. putin, by the way, knows this. i think you'll see more and more the russians saying you want us to ease up here, ease up on the humanitarian impact of your sanctions on russia. and what i think we have to get ready for is more of a competition where putin uses the world's literally hunger for grain as a bargaining chip to ease pressure on russia. i think that conversation is coming. >> putin has control over the food supplies and oil, which prices are skyrocketing across the globe, forcing the united states to turn to unsavory places to find more energy. yesterday the white house confirmed that president biden traveling to saudi arabia later this month as part of an international swing where he will meet with the crown prince

there, mohammad bin salomon being held for the murder and dismemberment of jamaal khashoggi. >> the energy situation, oil prices are above $100 a barrel. secondly, diplomatic efforts to end the war in yemen. and then thirdly probably most of all iran. we're at a point now where the iran nuclear talks are not working. every day iran is accumulating more of the stuff of nuclear weapons, the international atomic energy agency is monitoring it, we are facing, we, the united states, israel, saudi arabia, the possibility of iran either getting close to nuclear weapons, we're basically there, but getting very close. we need to collaborate with saudi arabia. so essentially what the administration is weighing is taking saudi arabia essentially no longer having a relationship defined by human rights, over yemen and the khashoggi murder, and instead having a broader

relationship and there is also besides winding down the war in yemen, besides collaborating against iran, there is also hope that saudi arabia will find its way to normalized relations with israel. you'll hear a lot of talk about a grand bargain, and, yes, this is real politic. this is basically the united states saying we're going to continue quote, unquote to be concerned about human rights, concerns and the rest, but we don't have the luxury of having a relationship with an important country like saudi arabia totally revolve around that one issue. it actually won't make that much of a difference on energy prices, but that will be one important piece of it. >> yeah, priorities change. that trip to saudi arabia also will include a stop in israel and of course the war in ukraine that provides a backdrop for this international trip scheduled at the end of the month. the president goes to germany for the g-7 and nato for a meeting in madrid where that will be where the alliance will be, again, committing itself to the standing up to russia's aggression. coming up on "morning joe," a package of gun reform bills is

headed to the house floor. after advancing through a committee yesterday. it came after several fiery and impassioned speeches. >> enough is enough. enough of you telling us school shootings are a fact of life, when every other country, like ours, has virtually ended it. enough of you blaming mental illness and then defunding mental healthcare in this country. enough of your thoughts and prayers. enough. enough. >> that's new york congressman mondare jones. he'll join us next on "morning joe." e jones. he'll join us next on "morning joe. (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ ♪ i've been to: pittsburgh, parkersburg, ♪ ♪ gravelbourg, colorado, ♪

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time after time we have given you a chance to do something. after columbine, after sandy hook, after parkland and time after time you have chosen to put your right to kill over our right to live. but your selfishness and your indifference have not killed our hope. you have transformed it. it is up to us to save ourselves from you. we did not choose this fight. we had our own dreams for our lives, the same as you did when you were kids, but we can't let you get away with this anymore. enough is enough. >> democratic congressman mondaire jones of new york, in a passionate address speaking directly to the republicans, on the house judiciary committee, as they argued against gun reform measures. the congressman joins us now, and "the washington post's" eugene robinson has the first question. >> congressman jones, good to speak with you. that was a very powerful speech yesterday. clearly the judiciary committee

and the democratic majority in the house are prepared to act, prepared to perhaps take meaningful action on gun violence. over in the senate, however, clearly it is a different picture. let's suppose that the senate actually does something. but it's woefully inadequate, it is terribly incremental, it doesn't really move the ball but an inch or a centimeter, but it is something. is the house then prepared to say okay, you know, we didn't get what we need, but we did get this, would the house be prepared to go along with that sort of move by the senate? but, again, incremental and inadequate, but that's something as opposed to nothing. >> first of all, great to be with you all. listen, we have got to pass

legislation that makes a difference in the lives of america's children. and if that means passing something that is not as far as the american people or congress, democrats in particular would like to go in this moment, then we need to do that, even as we fight for so much more. we pass legislation out of the judiciary committee last night, and we still need to add a ban on assault weapons to that array of legislative options moving forward. i'm not giving up on that. we can do both of these things. we can pass legislation for which we can get ten republican senators, even as we continue to have up or down votes on more ambitious but urgently necessary and broadly supported provisions in the house of representatives. >> congressman, you're running in a new congressional district this time out. going to be introducing yourself to a brand-new constituency. lower manhattan, river to river.

guns no doubt is a huge issue, a huge issue nationally and huge issue again in your district, children getting killed at school, always an issue. but there are other issues. gas, groceries, lack of infant formula. and america's attention span, as you know, is fleeting. how do you get through that morass of issues, especially guns, to get talking about the important items, to families, the cost of living. >> thank you for acknowledging that ending gun violence is top of mind for everybody in america right now. there is also the soaring costs of daily living. i grew up on food stamps and i was raised by a single mom who had to work multiple jobs to provide for our family. i know the struggles of working people. i've been so excited to be having these conversations with folks in lower manhattan and in brooklyn and new york's 10th

congressional district. i've been fighting for those people. i've been fighting for these constituencies already, based on the work i've been doing in congress, passing the american rescue plan, which cut costs for working families, not least of which cutting child poverty in half and keeping public schools and small businesses open, and employees employed at the small businesses. and then more recently i worked to pass the infrastructure investment and jobs act, which is going to bring billions of dollars to new york state. and is going to help create millions of good paying union jobs over the next several years. so when i hear from folks, i hear them talk about the need for good paying jobs, and, of course, the need to reduce the cost at the grocery store, and at the gas pump. and we need to continue to do that. we need to hold the oil companies accountable and the meat companies accountable. i do that on the judiciary committee. >> so, congressman, you are now running to stay in congress in a new hotly contested district.

the newly created 10th district. daniel goldman and former new york city mayor bill de blasio. give us brief pitch, if you will, why you would be the best choice to represent this new district in new york city. >> this is a district that deserves a progressive champion with a track record of actually delivering results in office. and who is going to fight like hell in the face of all of these threats we have got. i've been a leader in the congress, a leader in the congress. someone who has played a leading role in passing transformative legislation, and who has also co-authored transformative legislation. i'm the guy who introduced legislation to add four seats to the supreme court, understanding that this far right 6-3 majority was going to be at precisely this point in history where it is poised to overturn roe v. wade, and so many other fundamental rights. i'm also really excited to be fighting to end domestic

terrorism. white supremacist domestic terrorism. we have seen our aapi people targeted, our jewish brothers and sisters targeted, and we know in the face of all of these things that we need someone with experience, with the fighting spirit, that is required to defeat all of these threats and someone with a track record of delivering. >> congressman mondaire jones, thank you for being with us today. good luck with the race. we will speak to you again soon. still ahead, the latest read on the economy, when the may jobs report is released later this morning. plus, new york becomes the first state to pass new gun laws in the wake of the recent mass shootings. we'll take a look at those. "morning joe's" coming right back. look at those "morning joe's" coming right back hold and seal. clinically proven to give strongest hold, plus seals out 5x more food particles. fear no food. new poligrip power hold and seal. entresto is the number one heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists

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richard, before you leave, at some point, the war in ukraine will be over. we don't know in what fashion it will end, but before, about a couple of minutes ago when you

were talking about ukraine, the point raised was the negotiation to end the war. how is it done without the united states and nato, actually, putting the thumb on the scale to end the negotiations, when it's ukraine's country? >> well, we shouldn't do that. in part for our own reasons. anytime territory is acquired through the use of military force, that's hardly a precedent we want to reward. we went to war against iraq to make sure that that principle stood. and i think ukraine is not predisposed to do it, given the atrocities. obviously, they don't want to give up their own country. and let's not kid ourselves. they wouldn't be giving up territory for peace. does anyone seriously believe if vladimir putin got a chunk of ukraine, he would be satisfied. the historical analogy would be appeasement. you give a dictator 20% of your territory, he says, what about the next 20%?

so ukraine has no illusions about vladimir putin. the idea that the prerequisitions for an agreement are there, they're not. and putin saying, why should i accept a compromise. i want a big military victory. i know people want this war to end for a million different reasons, humanitarian and everything else, economic. but i don't think the prerequisites are there. and at the moment, we're much more likely to think about this almost like a siege, mike. this is going to be something open-ended. and i say that understanding the costs of that and the dangers. but i think that's where both sides are. this war tends to harden people's minds and hearts, and i think that's where we are. we had better get ready and think about how we support or sustain a long war. >> pressure growing from some european capitals to end the war. president biden in that op-ed says it's ukraine's decision. also saying the u.s. not calling for vladimir putin's ouster. richard haas, thank you so much for joining us this morning. still ahead here on "morning

joe," more from the president's prime-time address and whether it will help move congress on gun reform. plus, a prime-time slate for the first public hearing before the january 6th committee. we have new reporting on what the plan panel plans to reveal its investigation into the capitol attack. "morning joe" will be right back. capitol attack "morning joe" will be right back all the time. what matters... is what we do now. she's feeling the power of listerine. he's feeling it. yep, them too. it's an invigorating rush... ...zapping millions of germs in seconds. for that one-of-a-kind whoa... ...which leaves you feeling... ahhhhhhh listerine. feel the whoa!

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it's 7:00 on the east coast and it is 12:00 midday here in london where a service of thanksgiving for her majesty, the queen, is taking place at st. paul's cathedral, as part of the celebrations of the queen's jubilee platinum anniversary, her 70 years on the throne. you've seen members of the royal family arriving at st. paul's cathedral. tony blair, the former prime minister are there. there are 400 invitees who have given service to this country.

they are people who have worked in the national health service during the covid crisis. you can see there the duke and duchess of cambridge, kate and william. when they arrived, there was a huge cheer from the crowd. and there was a huge cheer for harry and megan. this is the first time we have seen them this week, the duke and duchess of sussex in public. the queen herself is not there at this service. the palace had to announce last night that the queen had really enjoyed yesterday's festivities when she appeared on the balcony, but was suffering some discomfort and it was decided that it was too difficult for her majesty to travel to st. paul's cathedral, so sadly, because this is a service she really wanted to attend. the queen is a woman of great faith in a country that is largely secular. she stands out. she makes her annual radio broadcasts about her faith. she's talked about her faith as her anchor in her life and she did want to attend this service, but it was just too difficult for the 96-year-old monarch, who has been suffering from some

mobility issues and had some discomfort after appearing on the balcony yesterday. but the other members of the royal family are there and the crowd waiting outside st. paul's cathedral that be delighted every time, particularly the younger royals have appeared, harry and william have had huge cheers, as they've arrived. it's interesting that this is a service of thanksgiving and that the theme of the whole service is service. particularly the queen's service to this nation. she's been thanked by the archbishop of york for dedicating her life to service. when she made her very first radio address at the age of 21 in south africa on her 21st birthday, made it from abroad, the queen said to the members of this kingdom, i declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short, shall be devoted to your service. long or short. it has been a long life and it has been devoted to service. one of the things that brits and people around the world so

admire about this queen is her sense of duty and her sense of stoicism. her sense of doing what it takes, for the monarchy, but also for the united kingdom and the commonwealth, as well. i think that's why i've been walking around london the last couple of days, jonathan, there have been so many people from around the world, not just brits, but people i've met from canada, from america, from africa, from asia, who have come here to honor the queen. and it's really a moment to say thank you. and that's what this service of thanksgiving is all about in st. paul's cathedral. >> an extraordinary legacy of service. katty kay with us is there in london. here in new york, mike barnicle is here. he's still with us. so is eugene robinson in washington. and joining the conversation, we have famed royal watchers, host and executive producer of "the circus" on showtime, msnbc national affairs analyst, john heilemann. also host of the podcast, on brand with donny deutsch, donny deutsch. with us as well, former u.s. senator, now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire

mccaskill. >> can i just come clean for a second? it's interesting, i asked barnacle about the celtics game last night. you know what he said to me? i didn't watch it because all the royals stuff got me so hyped up, he was going through old "people" magazine to keep up. that's the impact of the royals. it's amazing. >> i've always been an aficionado of the royal family. >> when you talk about, with all due respect to the queen, mobility issues? i mean, you're barely ambulatory, yet you're here this morning. >> this is wonderful. >> and here's donny -- donny's, you know, can barely, he needs to be pushed around in a little cart now and then. >> howdy doody wants his shirt back. >> it is true several times that the queen's jubilee was more impressive than the fourth of july. so we have questions about your patriotism here, sir. >> what is going on here? are you guys all on crack or something? >> we're going to move on.

john heilemann, don't answer that question. >> plead the fifth. >> president biden, of course, delivered an impassioned prime-time address, pleading with congress toation action on guns. his 20-minute address came on the eve of this national gun violence awareness day. the president urged lawmakers to ban assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines, to expand background checks and to pass red flag laws. >> there have always been limitations on what weapons you can own in america. for example, machine guns have been federally regulted for nearly 90 years, and this is still a free country. this isn't about taking away anyone's rights, it's about protecting children. it's about protecting families, it's about protecting whole communities. it's about protecting our freedom to go to school, to a grocery store, to a church without being shot and killed. and let there be no mistake

about the psychological trauma that gun violence leaves behind. imagine being that brave little girl in uvalde, who smeared blood off her murdered friend's body on her own face to pretend she was dead in order to stay alive. imagine what it would be like for her to walk down the hallway of any school again. imagine what it's like for children who experience this kind of trauma every day in school in the streets, in communities all across america. i've been in this fight for a long time. i know how hard it is, but i'll never give up. if congress fails, i believe this time, the majority of the american people won't give up, either. i believe the majority of you will act to turn your outrage into making this issue central to your vote enough, enough, enough. >> what we remember about presidencies often are moments.

that seems like a moment we might remember, if things get done. the president yesterday alternated, he was angry, he was sad, he was emotional. he conveyed messages from victims' families saying, do something. read this political moment. is congress going to do anything. >> i don't know what congress will try to do and i won't try to predict the future. i will say that joe biden thought he was as good on this as he's been on anything this his presidency. he was just very clear, very strong, very striking. i've heard some analysis this morning that says that there are republicans who are seized on the notion that he's talking still about banning assault weapons and saying, well, there they are. they actually are trying to take your guns away. republicans are looking for reasons not to make this big. and i think you can't calibrate your rhetoric to try to thread some needle.

he's had a long history on this issue. he's been consistent on this issue for 30 years of his career. there actually was an assault weapons ban and he was super strong on it. but i can believe in this moment that the president gave a great speech, a really good speech, and still think that what is going to happen will not be determined by this speech, what will happen up on the hill. if there's a break in that logjam, and some are a little more hopeful than they have been in a while, that his performance is super strong, but the outcome up on the hill will be driven by other factors, the same factors that have stymied and not come to pass, the same factors that have stymied these efforts in a long time in the face of tens of thousands of bodies. >> you're right, john. claire mccaskill, let's have your read on where the senate is, including the small group of

republicans that are talking about some form of legislation. but let's begin with your take on last night's appearance by the president. those american people who know him, felt that, felt strongly that this is the way he would be if he was sitting down in your living room, talking to you about guns and about the uvalde massacre. and that it was deeply personal and deeply emotional, and yet it was pure joe biden. >> john's right. joe biden has been at the forefront of this american love affair with weapons that are military grade, designed to do nothing but kill human beings for most of his career. and he has withstood a great deal of pressure in the past from the gun lobby about limiting the access to these high capacity military-grade guns that slaughter so many. i thought it was very strong.

as to whether or not something will happen, a lot of that will depend on how realistic and how willing those that are the most adamant about gun regulation and additional gun safety measures, how willing they are to take what they can get. i think red flag laws. high capacity magazines? i think there's a shot. closing the gun show loophole, so that isn't the place where everyone knows you can go to get your weapon of choice and find a private party that won't ask any questions or ask for any idea. so closing that loophole, i'm not sure they will get to banning a certain classification of weapon. they have to get to 60. but my sources, and they're pretty good in the senate, they think they may have a deal to do at least something, particularly

around red flag laws. and let's hope we take that. but the collective frustration of america is that nothing has been done. >> the president also said last night, quote, this is not about taking away anyone's guns. but at yesterday's judiciary committee hearing for new gun legislation, the top republican on the committee, jim jordan, claimed the democrats are trying to do just that. >> no one wants another tragedy. no one wants this to happen again. that's why it's regretful that democrats have rushed to a markup today, in what seems more like political theater than a real attempt at improving public safety or finding solutions. this bill just another democratic attack on the second amendment. and it's likely just the start. >> there was another moment later in the hearing when republican congressman greg steube who was appearing virtually from his home in florida showed off guns and magazine clips he claimed would be banned. >> here in front of me, i have a sig sauer p-226.

comes with a 21-round magazine. this gun would be banned. here's a sig sauer 320, it takes a 20-round magazine. here's a gun i carry every single day to protect myself, my family, my wife, my home. this is an xl sig sauer p-365. comes with a 15-round magazine. here's a 7-round magazine, which would be less than what would be laumpbld this bill if this bill were to become law. it doesn't fit. so this gun would be banned. >> i hope the gun is not loaded. >> i'm at my house. can i do whatever i want with my guns. >> as the congressman waved around those guns, democrats expressed concern about his safety. joe tweeted about that momentum, saying this. quote, this is the republican party of 2022. extremists, freaks, insurrections, conspiracy theorist, and authoritarians. whatever you call them, don't call them conservative. they stopped being that a long time ago. donny deutsch, i turn the floor to you here. your reaction to joe's 2013, of

course, but also that spectacle we saw from that republican congressman? >> what's wrong with these people? >> they're mentally ill. >> what is wrong with these people? watching that. talking about theater of the absurd. his last line is, i can do what i want with my guns. that's the marching cry. what i still don't understand, from a political point of view, you've charted on the show many, many times, i don't have to restate the statistics about what 90% of the people want as far as universal background checks and 80% of the red flag laws. we all know those. don't the republicans understand that this is a different moment in time, that politically, where is the bugaboo at this time? where is the bogeyman in the closet, that if any republicans come out and act bravely, and john, actually, is it no longer -- am i naive to say it's political suicide to come out on the side of just common sense

stuff. and also, before i throw it back to you, just one thing that biden did last night, and i agree with everybody, i thought he was super strong, sometimes not having his mojo pb and i thought he was pitch perfect is celebrating gun owners. and i think that is a big part of the strategy. and if i was message going forward, i would have gun owners as the people coming out for spokespeople for what we need to change as far as gun laws. back to my question, though. isn't it a moment in time that political bravery wouldn't even be that brave at this point? >> it's hard to know? look, where the action is for these republicans is not in -- they would lose nothing by being in favor of gun measures that 90% of the american people are in favor of, in a general election. but that's not where the action happens. it happens within your party, in a primary. there are a lot of republicans that do not want to cross the nra. they want money from the nra and make sure that the nra doesn't fund a primary pun against them.

they act in this spirit of political cowardice. the thing i think of when i see a performance like that, what an opportunity for democrats. and claire, that's my question. like, you know, i don't want to turn everything back on the democratic party, many of who are on the right place in these gun regulations, and god knows they should go further than some of these very modest proposals like universal background checks or red flag laws. you look at a spectacle like that, you look at a florida congressman behaving like an utter ass on public television, doing things to make him look like he not only has way too many weapons, but doesn't know how to operate them. and how can he with those kind of images characterizing the republican party, the mainstream of the republican party. how -- is it the democrats aren't able to take those images, those positions, those statements, and turn those against the republican party in an effective way.

this seems like such an obvious political winner for democrats. it's not just that republicans are on the wrong side of 85% of the american people on most of these things, but they go and make utter asses of themselves on public television like congressman steube did yesterday. >> i think the essence of the midterm elections will be two different narratives. one is, do you want to fight extremism? do you want to fight the fact that the republicans in a whole bunch of states, including mine, are now saying, if you're raped, you must carry your rapist's fetus to term, that you cannot terminate a pregnancy when you have gotten pregnant from a rapist. and then you do this. this extreme position that somehow taking away a magazine that can kill 30 children in less than two or three minutes is a-okay. that there's -- that he's so proud of the 30-round magazine that he wants to show everybody

that he has one. so that's extremism. on the other side is change. and i don't want to lose sight of that. i think there's al of americans that are so focused right now on the pain at the grocery store and the pain at the pump that they are willing to look the other way on extremism, because they want something different in terms of their own personal financial world. that is the challenge for november. and if the democrats stayed disciplined and on message about extremism, they will win some districts that everybody right now thinks they don't have much chance. >> and to that exact point, certainly, inflation seems top of mind for many voters heading into november, but republicans seem dramatically out of step on a couple of key issues, including gun rights and abortion. new polling shows the recently leaked supreme court draft physician on roe v. wade has solidified american support for legal abortion access. the latest poll from the "wall street journal" and newark at the university of chicago shows support has remained steady over

the past 20 years in cases where the woman's health is seriously endangered or if there's a strong chance of serious birth defects. but in other categories, support for abortion access has climbed drastically, compared to polls taken before that draft opinion was leaked. when a pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, 84% of americans say abortions should be legal, compared to 72% just ten years ago. when a woman cannot afford more children, 59% say abortion should be legal compared to 41% in both 2012 and 2002. and finally, 57% say abortion should be legal if a woman wants one for any reason. that is the highest that figure has ever been, in polls that date back to 1977, and 13% higher than when the question was asked just six years ago.

so katty kay, we're seeing that poll, donny cited some polls where americans stand on guns. there's a loud minority in the republican party on those two issues. but they seem dramatically out of step from where the rest of the country is. how do democrats take advantage this november? >> yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? on both abortion and guns, you have republicans looking like they aren't in step or republican leaders, whether it's in the supreme court or on gun control in the senate out of step with the population. i guess there's two questions. one is, when people tell a pollster what they feel, are they prepared to vote on that issue? are people who tell pollsters that they want universal background checks prepared to make that that single issue that they vote on? it doesn't seem that's the case. on abortion, are the 57% who say they want women to have the right to an abortion actually prepared to vote solely on that

issue? again, that doesn't seem to be the case. claire, you've been through elections in purple state. what would it take for somebody in a state like missouri to get elected on a platform of supporting gun safety laws and supporting a woman's right to an abortion? i mean, is that even a viable election strategy in a state like missouri, in a district that is purple or even potentially leaning republican if these polls are right and the majority of people support these positions? >> well, i think, katty, for people that are in areas that are capable of electing either a democrat or a republican, and let's stay focused on the fact that that's where you make majorities. you don't make majorities in bright blue place or bright red places. majorities are made in places where someone is willing to vote for someone of either party. even in a state like missouri, a message of extremism works. now, if your whole campaign was,

we've got to take away people's guns and we've got to make sure all abortions are legal, that would be very difficult. but talking about what the missouri legislation has done, that will have a ripple effect on everything from iufs to iuds to someone who has been raped, to a young child that has been consistently raped by their stepfather or their uncle, that's where you move voters and on guns. almost everyone in missouri understands the culture of guns and they understand that it's important that we never talk about removing people's own guns from their homes. but high-capacity magazines are a completely different deal. i think people are beginning to realize that we are the mass murder capital of the world. and there's a reason for that. and it's this love affair with guns that have no place in a sportsman's cabinet. >> hey, gene robinson, i was

looking yesterday, maybe a day before that, at the first ad, general election ad that stacey abrams put out in the governor's race down in georgia. it was a negative ad against brian kemp. it's got three issues that she hits. one, choice. two, guns. and three, the democratic standard of going after him for giving away tax breaks to fat cat friends, a democratic populist issue. but she really -- the headline issues there are these very issues we're talking about. and i wonder those two, choice and guns, i wonder whether that's a template for how a lot of democrats will run across the country. think about the closest senate race in the country, georgia, pennsylvania, and arizona. and i see stacey abrams picking up that cudgel, that two-part cudgel against kemp, it looks like a preview of what we'll see this fall. >> i think it ought to be. and i think democrats across the country ought to pay attention to what stacey abrams is saying and doing.

just look back at her record and what she and others have done to put georgia in play for democrats in way that it hasn't been in a long, long time. so i think that is smart politics. and if that's going to be the way democrats run across the country, and i think maybe it should, then they need to start working on that now. what the anti-abortion and pro-gun lobbies have done over years and years is sort of create these single issue voters. put these issues to the front of mind for so many people around the country that, you know, democrats are going to have to do the same thing in a really short period of time to make up

some of that ground. but i do think that's possible. doing the same thing over and over again is not going to get you a better result. and i think if you lead with the inequality and that whole set of issues, i think we could conclude right now that that's not -- that that doesn't look like a real winning strategy for democrats in the midterms. but abortion and guns are two real, present, right now issues that you can motivate people on, i think. but you've got to work at it. you've got to go out and do it. >> the one thing i want to add on top of that, i agree with gene and claire, right on the money, you've got to wrap it in fear, though. you've got to wrap it and attach it to the maga maniacs. the talking points are, yes, the republicans want that a

14-year-old girl who is raped by her uncle can't get an abortion, the republicans want to continue to destroy our democracy. we cannot -- and joe talks about this a lot. we cannot let the crazies take over. you have to make the fear of crazy maga maniacs more than the fear of an extra 50 cents on a loaf of bread. and that dichotomy is where it is. >> as much as the president is still trying to reach across the aisle on certain issues, giving the benefit of the doubt to mr. mcconnell, more than most of his staff would like him to, we have heard him talk about ultramaga, stream maga, paint him as the party that is sto extreme on these issues. >> go further than the word extreme. ultra is a positive word. >> crazy,mania. >> eugene robinson, thank you for being with us. your latest piece is entitled, if politicians think gun carnage

is acceptable, they should just admit it. i encourage everyone to check that out. still ahead on "morning joe," former homeland secretary jeh johnson joins us to discuss what it might take to finally seep congress act on gun violence. plus, there he is, clint watts is standing by at the big board for a look at where the war in ukraine stands on this the 100th day of fighting. we'll be joined by a pulitzer prize-winning photo journalist who has seen the impact of russia's invasion firsthand. you're watching "morning joe" and we're going to be right back. g "morning joe" and we're going to be right back ♪ limu emu ♪ and doug. ♪ harp plays ♪ only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. (emu squawks) if anyone objects to this marriage, speak now or forever hold your peace. (emu squawks) (the crowd gasps)

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joining us now is national security analyst for nbc news and msnbc, our friend, clint watts. it is day 100 of this war, and by any measure, the russians had not nearly accomplished what they hoped. but we are seeing a real battle in the east. give us an update as to where things stands this morning. >> a few things. i'll start from the russian perspective. they have had some success , and that is due that they have used fire on some key parts of the ukrainians. if there's nothing left after the war, what have you run? russia will claim that they have liberated. this will probably be putin's phrase, this part here. they're very close to getting the rest of the luhansk oblask. and they have slowly been advancing with armor and ewe tillry. the ukrainians have pulled back and have been in defensive

positions, also sustaining severe casualties. at the same time, this has become a meat grinder from both sides' perspectives. zoom out, bigger picture. there's a few things that we can look at. the battle, they have developed three fronts that are important. here in kharkiv, we've seen them actually expand out. and at this point, they're very close to moving to a point where they can push artillery out of kharkiv, really sustaining that city. and they will have taken that back close to the russian border. here is a kline of communication and supply down to izyum. it's something that the russians are quite worried about. the south is the place to watch at the present. here in ukraine, they have successfully launched several counteroffensives. and this is a key line of communication between mykolaiv and kherson. and that is the first city that the russians actually took. if the ukrainians can continue to do counteroffensives here,

this will cause the russians to have to focus more energy down here in southern ukraine separately. whether it's in eastern ukraine or southern ukraine, the russians are having a hard time keeping control of the turf. you're seeing ukrainian resistance movements in the rear areas of the russians. this will turn into an insurgency, a ukrainian insurgency inside the russian area. asking the question about when these sanctions take hold come late summer, when there's catastrophic, economic consequences, how will russia keep fight going? that brings us back to the big picture overall. the russians are already moving older reserve supplies of equipment down here into the south. separately, belarus has opened up some of their old tanks and materials to provide back into the russians, and they're going to start meeting intense equipment shortages. the last one is in terms of the morale of the russian soldiers. those that went into that crazy first wave in kyiv have been pulled back. others are being ground up here in the east. they need more conscripts, and

you have some who believe the propaganda signing up to fight, but others who are returning home. it's a tough spot for them. ultimately, they want to take donetsk. this is the remainder part of donbas, which is the donetsk oblask, i'm not sure they'll be able to do that. because the ukrainian resistance are getting more equipment and manpower every day and launching those pretty excellent expert offenses. mike barnacle, this war today, day 100, but officials throughout the west, they feel fare that this war we'll see some day, a day 200, a day 300, perhaps longer. >> it seems like longer than 100 days. and imagine being in ukraine. imagine living through a war, any war. joining us now from ukraine, fourth time pulitzer prize

winning photojournalist, carol goosy, she's always there. your pictures appear in newspapers and have resonance beyond the fleeting pictures we see on tv, but once you take that shot, once you send it, what happens five or ten minutes later or an hour later to you, when you think about what you saw, what you photographed, and you're living amongst it now? >> it's -- it's been very emotional. i don't think there's a journalist here that hasn't -- hasn't been affected and changed in some way. it changes your soul to witness this kind of suffering. i'm doing -- i'm not doing front line combat coverage. i came to do civilian toll, but it's -- it just brings you to

your knees. because these are people, women, children, the elderly. i'm in kharkiv right now, and people think it's safe, you know, soldiers are coming with flowers to welcome their wives and girlfriends and children back on trains and just the past week, there's been a number of, you know, very bad shellings here and, you know, a school was hit yesterday. a woman was killed. it appears she was rushing to the basement, probably for safety, but she had just come back, apparently, a few days ago from evacuation. and people think it's safe, but it's not. it's still within range. there were a number of deaths, i think seven deaths and 1 injured, just a few days ago here. it's not out of reach, you know, of the russians to cause what i feel right now here is terrorism. >> to that point, you're living amidst a country slowly being destroyed, piece by piece, by

russian artillery and russian artillery movements. how do you get around? how do you know which war zone you might survive, which war zone might be interest, they all might be macabrely interesting, but how do you get around and figure out where to go? >> as i said, i didn't come here to cover the front line. there's a lot of health issues i have, i can't run in a flak jacket and i don't want to be a burden to anyone on the front line. i've always covered the humanitarian issues, but honestly, all of ukraine is the front line. there's no place safe in this country. they just hit lviv. i just got a message -- an alert on my phone. so i have an amazing fixer named dima, translater, and we just get in the car and drive. we try to figure out where the latest shelling was or, you know, find a babushka living in a basement or whatever the stories are, i've been doing a

lot of human interest stories. so it's kind of different every day. it's hard to get the news here. it's hard to find out even where to go, where they've been hitting. >> well, carol -- >> we can't possibly work without fixers. i can't say enough about how they have our back and they, you know, they just help us document this vital, you know, time in history. >> well, we thank you for your work, carol. we pray that you remain safe and pray that you remain on the job, because you are terrific. four-time award winner photojournalist carol goosy. photographers are the best. they have more of a nose and an eye for a news than reporters do. >> sometimes old print guys like us loathe to give credit, but it's due here. doing incredible working with

brave work, and bringing them hose images we've seen splashed on the front pages of newspapers are doing incredible work there. coming up on "morning joe," we're learning more about the gunman in the tulsa mass shooting. and how quickly he was able to get the weapons he used in the attack. also ahead, a member of the influential american family forever changed by gun violence. the granddaughter of dr. martin luther king jr. will joining us. and we're less than a week away from the first prime-time hearing on the capitol attack. we're going to talk about what the select committee is promising when "morning joe" comes right back. s promising when "morning joe" comes right back (♪ ♪) (♪ ♪) ♪("i've been everywhere" by johnny cash) ♪

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as a mom, i want a statesman, not a politician. i want someone who is skpifl serious and someone my children can look up to. >> she stands up for wyoming farmers and ranchers, against

crippling regulation. >> so many people today claim to be a constitutional conservative. liz truly is one. >> liz cheney has always fought hard for veterans like me. >> she will continue to fight for my right to recreational access on our public lands. >> we are very lucky to have liz as a strong advocate for the oil and gas industry and for the state of wyoming. >> she has the courage to do the right thing, to stand up to bullies. >> the courage to do the right thing to stand up to bullies. who could she be talking about? this is the message from wyoming congressman liz cheney in her first campaign ad for re-election. congressman cheney is one of the two republicans on the january 6th select committee investigating the insurrection at the capitol. the hearing will be held thursday, first one in prime-time from the committee. the hearing is expected to focus on former president trump's

role. receive witness testimony, preview additional hearings, and provide the american people a summary of its findings about the coordinated, multi-step effort to overturn the results of the 2022 presidential election, and prevent transfer of power. the committee says it will release more information on witnesses next week. john heilemann, this has been much anticipated. i've talked to aides involved in the committee saying, they have a story to tell. they feel confident they'll be able to make it compelling. that the narrative will potentially change some minds on what happened on january 6th. do you think that's possible? >> i don't know the answer to that question, but if it doesn't change some minds, then it will have failed. because given the way the country has dug in, in its partisan bunkers, you know, a lot of minds are made up about this jonathan. like al of republicans are election deniers. they think that 1/6 rite was not an insurrection. in many cases, they think it was a peaceful demonstration. i think it was all justified,

because the election was stolen by democrats and donald trump was wrong. if this thing doesn't change sop minds or at least bring some people who are undecided over on to the side of what seems obvious to most of us, which is that this was a very dangerous thing that happened, that democracy was at stake and under threat, and that donald trump and his henchmen were involved, deeply involved in planning, coordinating, and executing it, it will be a waste of time. they recognize on this committee that this is a moment for them. they've done a thousand interviews, looked at 100,000 documents. they are quietly telling people that there will be surprises. with all the leaks we've had, all the things we've seen, up to and including the stuff that's implemented mike memoli. denver riggleman came out and said, meadows is the key. he will be a central player. but they are quietly suggesting to people that there will be news in these hearings and things that have not come out yet. and they'll have at least this one, now we know, the first

hearing -- the televised hearing next week will be in prime-time. i don't think they will all be in prime-time, but i think it won't be the only one in prime-time. and at the end of the month, we'll probably find out about roe v. wade, the final decision. for the next three weeks, this will be front and center on a lot of people's mind. this is their momentum. >> donny, these hearings will be held a year and a half after the event. they'll be held in a country consumed with $7 potential pain, $7 a gallon for gasoline. >> and amnesia. >> looking for baby formula on shelves that are empty. >> you know, the one thing that this has that the mueller report didn't have we have videotape. there are things -- we are a visual world. you'll be able to hear and listen as opposed to read and that's a big difference. 53% of republicans think violence is okay if our democracy is in peril.

70% of republicans think that the -- think that the election was stolen. so will it change those minds? no. but there are some wing votes, and particularly, i'll go back to what i said in the previous segment. if you attach this to a bigger story about maga maniacs. put this together with roe v. wade, put it together with guns. put it all together. every one of these things isolated doesn't beat inflation. wrap them together under maga maniacy. so there is a sliver packaged properly, yes, you can change hearts and minds. >> claire mccaskill, you're welcome to make up a word if you would like today. let's remember that the republican national committee declared that january 6th was legitimate political discourse. a national party said it was legitimate political discourse. that's part of the platform. what are your hopes and expectations? what would your advice be to this committee to break through. maybe not to those die-hard

republicans, but to those independent voters, those swing voters who actually decide selections in this country? >> well, there are al of really good prosecutors that are staffing this committee that have been in front of juries many times and when you're in front of a jury, you have to present facts, but most importantly, you have to tell a story. if this devolves into a typical hearing where every member is trying to get their sound bite on the evening news, if this devolves into, look at me at home, aren't i doing a great job, they will lose this narrative. they have to make this about telling the story to america and trying to make it fresh, trying to make it interesting, so they can capture really the eyeball and the ears of a lot of americans that have tuned this out. this is all about getting people to watch. and once they do, holding on to them, so they can hear the entire story, that it's factual,

it's not rhetoric or calling people names. it's what's actually happened with the timeline. i think they're prepared to do that. the question is, will they be successful? >> expectations certainly rising there. the hackers start next week. we, of course, cover it in depth. johnny deutsch, have a good weekend, my friend. >> are you going back to bed? >> more royal coverage, that's all i want. just please more royal coverage. >> around the clock royal coverage and the boston celtics. the granddaughter of the reverend martin luther king jr. is our guest. she never met her grandfather because the civil rights leader was killed by a gunman in 1968. now, the 14-year-old is calling on her generation to stand up against gun violence. yolanda renee king, we're please

to say, joins us next. , we're pe to say, joins us next.

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assault weapons, then we should raise the age to purchase them from 18 to 21. strengthen background checks, enact safe storage and red flag laws, repeal the immunity that protects gun manufacturers from liability. address the mental health crisis deepening the trauma of gun violence and as a consequence of that violence. these are rational commence measures. >> president biden last night outlined the type of gun safety regulation he would like to see in the wake of far too many incidents of gun violence across this country. we have the host of nbc politics nation and president of the national action network, the reverend al sharpton. also, former secretary of homeland security, jeh johnson, and yolanda renee king, the

granddaughter of martin luther king jr., an 8th grader and already a powerful voice for her generation. you have a powerful op-ed out in the "washington post" entitled my generation has to stand up against gun violence. in it, you write in part this, i never met my grandfather, the reverend martin luther king jr. because he was taken away from my family by gun violence. i know it is my duty as an american to use the platform given to my by my grandparents' sacrifices too up lift the voices of my peers. a child who lost her grandfather and great grandmother to gun violence. for too long voices like mine have gone ignored. maybe it's hard for politicians to imagine the impact these shootings have on students because it doesn't impact them directly. every month my parents and i talk about a new piece of legislation that gains traction and media coverage but ultimately fails. i do not want to walk into school afraid anymore. i want to be a teenager.

i have read a lot of my grandfathers sermons and speeches and there is one that comes to mind in the wake of this tragedy. with this faith, we will be able to hue out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. that is our call to action. yolanda, thank you for those really inspiring words. you outlined your family's connection to gun violence, and the tragedies created by it. talk about being a student, a teenager, the fears you and your peers have and why you think your generation's voices are important to get guns out of the hands of people who will do terrible things like shoot up schools. >> you know, ever since kindergarten, and we stopped around middle school, i have been doing school shooting drills where we hide under furniture and we hide under desks and the teachers explain to us why we are doing this, and

it's scary that we still -- we live in a society where we have to practice just in case a school shooter comes to our school and starts shooting up children. and i think that the other generations have failed us. they've failed to ban these weapons that are harmful and hurtful. and so i feel like it's the job of our generation to do so because the other generations did not do so, and so i think it's so important that our voices are heard so that the generations before us are not struggling with these same issues and so that the -- or not before us, after us, excuse me, so that the generations after us can be safe and can go to school without feeling that anxiety and feeling that anxiety of maybe

not coming back and being scared and they can be kids, and so i think it's so important that our voices are heard because really it seems we are the last hope. we are the last. because all the other generations have seen to have failed us, and that is the reason why we are having all of these shootings because the generations before us did not protect us, and so i along with many other people want to make sure that is not the case for generations before us -- after us. sorry. >> yolanda, al sharpton, you call me uncle al. let me ask you this, you've marched and rallied around this issue. this is not just with the wave. you've spoken at march for our lives, many of the rallies that your father and i put together. but you always say you want to talk to your generation.

we grew up in a generation that was in many ways overshadowed by your grandfather, and when i was your age, your grandfather was my hero. i joined the movement at 12. young people today are more influenced by video games. they're influenced by a lot of music that in many ways praised violence, and makes it something that is acceptable, if not trendy. so how do you as a 14-year-old who recently turned 14, i know, how do you and other activists your age that you are inspiring, how do you be counter culture in your generation to say wait a minute, there's nothing to be glorified about violence, there's nothing trendy or chic about violence. how do you talk to teenagers your age? because the shooter in buffalo, the shooter in texas were 18

years old. we're talking about teenagers. in many ways you're right, our generations have not been able to do the legislation, but your generation are bringing about mass killers and we need the yolanda king generation to say wait a minute, this is not the way. how do you do that? >> i think it all starts with education. i think the reason why the young people have the ideas in their mind is generations before, it's something that had been passed on to them. generations before them encouraged that. therefore they grow up thinking that it's okay. and they end up as young as 18 starting to go and think that it's okay to shoot people, and so i think that therefore the best thing to do first is that we need to educate people. we need to educate kids as young as possible about the importance. and although you would think it's common sense for someone to

not go to a school or not go to a grocery store and shoot people or to target people because of their race, for some people it's clearly not. because look at all the shootings we're having. we need to make sure because children are still in the -- are in the phase where their brains are developing and they're developing ideas, and so we need to make sure that we educate them as young as possible that violence is not right and that violence is not good, and so i think it's a matter of education. i have a lot of these conversations with friends, and i try not to surround myself by people who are -- who believe in violence. and so most of my friends usually typically don't play the violent video games or don't really believe in violence, and

i noticed that a lot of the people who i know, even though they think that it's like a trend to play violent video games, they think that it's, like, concerning that someone is going into a school and shooting people. so at the same time, there's still that line of common sense. but we need to make sure for those who do not know that it's unacceptable to do such awful things -- to do those awful things to people, we need to make sure that they are educated and so i think that we need to really put this into our education system so that we can educate young kids about this because this is an important issue that we need to talk more about. >> yolanda renee king, we know you have to get to school, but we really appreciate you joining us this morning. a new piece for the "washington post" titled "my generation has to stand up against gun

violence" thank you for being with us today. mr. secretary in a new op-ed for the "washington post," you say that in order to understand the horror of mass shootings, the country needs to see graphic photos of deceased victims. why must innocent school children carry the vivid memories of the executions of their teachers and classmates while federal and state lawmakers are spared. certain images do more than speak a thousand words. some actually reveal to us what no words can adequately convey. with each mass shooting, i mourn for the victims and i lament our democracy's inability to do anything about the ongoing violence. i'm convinced that part of the reason we have been unable to do this is because the public and the politicians who purport to represent them lack a vivid understanding of the price being paid. the horror has been kept under wraps. to truly judge the tradeoffs of the status quo, the death and destruction must be honestly revealed. we need a game changer.

we need an emmett till moment. powerful words, mr. secretary, and a case others have made as well. tell us what you mean by an emmett it moment. >> yolanda, give me regards to your father, i've known him for 45 years. we were classmates at morehead college. i was reluctant to write that. that was a tough thing to write. and it must be painful for anyone whose family member of someone killed by gun violence to read. i have been surprised that when i say an emmett till moment, when i refer to emmett till, multiple generations, white and black know what i mean because his mother had an open casket funeral in 1955 after emmett till, a 14-year-old boy was lynched in mississippi, and she had an open casket funeral and basically said to the world, look what they did to my boy.

"time" magazine called it one of the 100 most influential images of all time. many of us, even those who were not alive in 1955 remember that image. it's seared into our conscience, and it altered the trajectory of our nation in my view, probably sparked the civil rights movement, the montgomery busboy colt began three, four months later. images convey things that words very often cannot adequately convey. as i said in my op-ed, the children who were eyewitnesss to this tragedy in uvalde will go to grief counseling for the rest of their life because of what they saw and what they will have to bear. meanwhile, lawmakers and the constituents who elect them are spared these images. i think we need to bring the public and those in washington who represent them closer to these tragedies by showing them

what it means, what it amounts to. and we need some type of game changer, and i believe that's it. >> it wasn't that long after uvalde that the suggestions are popping up in my social media feeds, people saying this may be the solution. they need something to shock the country. nothing else is shocking. the procession of mass shootings hasn't shocked enough. we need something to change the game. the key element of the emmett till thing is that his mother put the pictures out, right, and i think most people have an objection to this idea ask the question, the additional pain and suffering that the families, the parents of the slain, and that's what i was going to ask you this question because you have probably spent more times with families of victims than anyone at least at this table. i'm curious, i don't know the answer to this question. there's so many now fallen children it's hard to imagine there aren't at least some parents that would be willing to do this voluntarily, i guess i ask the question, the goal i

think a lot of people would agree, a shock to the system, the right way or the wrong way, i don't know, but i think you would have to have the consent of the families to release these photographs at a minimum. do you think that there are a lot of eager -- not eager conscripts but willing conscripts in the cause that would be willing to have very ugly images of their children made public for that purpose. >> you know, it's very interesting, when i read secretary johnson's article, i met mamie till mogley, who was the mother who made the decision. they did not want her to open the casket, when she brought her son's body back, i was a year old when he was killed but i met her many years later, and we got to be friends. she brought the body back to chicago, they were from chicago, she was visiting mississippi, and she and the church decided to open the casket, it shocked everybody and i thought about this when i read this column, and i asked one of the families about it.

and here is what really brings a real painful point home. because of the shooting was done by a certain weapon, the victim, which i won't name, face was torn off and the mortician said we can't construct the body. the last two funerals that i did the eulogies last saturday, both had urns because they had cremated their loved one because they couldn't have an open casket or they couldn't have a body. people don't understand how these bullets from these weapons, literally rips the face off if you're shot in the head, and i agree with him we need to shock the public, but you can't have a headless or a disfigured body that's even worse than what emmett till looked like. >> let me say, you heard from the president last night he reiterated the point that school children had to be identified by dna results. >> unrecognizable.

>> that's the difference here. i mean, emmett till, you didn't need his dna. you knew who emmett till was in death. when you even think and the average person obviously can't even conjure up the damage done at close range by an ar-15 being scattered across a room, i would doubt that any parent would want his or her child's images, what was left of their child, being displayed. i understand the point you're making and you're coming from, but there are aspects of this that really bother me, and one of them has to do with the politics of it. and not the politics in the united states senate, whether they're going to vote for an assault ban weapon -- against assault weapons, it's the lack of a constituency that the democrats seem to be missing.

and by that, i mean there's one group of people in this country who are prime targets for ar-15s held by crazy people. and these people are accessible. they're available. and you see them every day. they're police officers. why there hasn't been an effort made to make an alliance between the democrats who are opposed to these weapons flooding -- and i'm talking from hand guns to ar-15s, why they haven't made more of an effort to link themselves with the police who they don't know whether they get out of a cruiser, whether it's in the south bronx or the hamptons, these weapons are so available, whether they're going to be out gunned immediately upon arriving at the scene. >> you do hear law enforcement organizations occasionally take a position on this issue. and i think you're absolutely right. the other point i would make is

i don't understand why the nra, responsible gun owners, people who are trained, people who hunt, people who actually need weapons for the protection of their families are not more outspoken about avoiding putting guns in the hands of irresponsible people. it seems to me the nra would be far more credible on this issue if they would simply take the position, we are in favor of guns only in the hands of responsible gun owners like ourselves. i cherish a driver's license. if the state cracks down on dui,s i don't feel threatening. >> it's the power. >> we have to shake them loose from the notion, if i give an inch, i'm going to lose a mile.

>> i think they represent the gun manufacturers who make more money off of these weapons, but i think to mike's point, no one, i think, has tried and is positioned to bring that police community together around this issue than the president. i think -- i'm talking about joe biden for those that think trump is still president. i'm talking about the elected president, because i think it was not really covered enough. he was able to get police leadership, and those of us that -- and leadership of the police reform movement together around this executive order he signed last week on police accountability. i was stunned when i walked in the east room and saw police leaders literally supporting us on many of the things that would have been in the george floyd bill. only joe biden could have got us all in the same room to do that, and i think a that is where i think the secretary makes a

great point. they are on the front line. don't forget, a security guard who was a police officer was killed in buffalo in the supermarket by that ar-15. wait a minute, we're being out gunned, we're being killed, and we need to take the weapons off the street. >> perhaps that coalition will be formed. federal legislation being debated. new york state will ban anyone under age 21 from buying or possessing a semiautomatic rifle. the state's legislature passing the measure as part of a package of new gun laws yesterday less than three weeks after an 18-year-old used one to kill 10 people at a supermarket in buffalo. besides raising the purchase age to 21, the bill also requires anyone buying a semiautomatic rifle to get a license, something previously only required for hand guns. the bill largely impacts areas outside of new york city which requires permits to possess, carry and purchase any type of firearm and prohibits most applicants under 21.

elsewhere, people as young as 16 can possess other young guns without a license. and restricts purchase of bullet resistant armor and revises the state's so called red flag laws, and new guns to be equipped with micro stamping technology that can trace bullets to firearms. legal fights over the legislation as you might expect are coming forward. claire mccaskill, earlier you did some reporting for us and talked about what you're hearing could happen in the senate. i'm curious, whether you think raising the age to have a semiautomatic weapon from 18 to 21, is that the in the cards, could that happen, and weigh in on this debate here from the secretary's op-ed. we're at the point now where numbers of victims, even numbers of school kids, don't seem to be enough to shock the system, to have a change. should we, do we require an image from an open casket of a

shooting victim? >> on your first question, i'm not confident that an age restriction is on the table right now. there's some moving parts among the people negotiating. let me talk about the pictures. as someone who has seen way too many victims of violence as a prosecutor, as someone who has been in the courtroom for multiple homicide trials where i argued to the judge that it was very important for the jury to see the photographs of the victims, but that was an important piece of connecting the facts with the reality of the violence that happened and the crime that had been committed, if we are trying to convince the american people that this kind of slaughter is unacceptable in this nation, it seems to me that we need to ask families to consider having these pictures put out among the

public. is it horrific? of course it is. but if we want to stop this, we've got to make the case. and i would never dream of going to a jury in a homicide case without them seeing the results of the crime that had been committed right there in front of them in a way that they cannot ignore, and frankly, at least speaking for me, can never forget. >> claire mccaskill, thank you for those powerful images. and former homeland security, jeh johnson. it's in the "washington post," time to show the real horror of mass shootings in pictures. reverend al sharpton, thank you as well for joining us. with the war in crane in its 100th day, we look at where the conflict is concentrated right now, and how much longer it could drag on. ukraine's first lady responds to those who say her country should make some concessions to russia. and in "morning joe's"

fourth hour, we'll be joined by ukraine's ambassador to the united states. and we're keeping an eye on washington and wall street. the futures board is red ahead of may's job report coming out in a few moments. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. oments you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the ram 1500. v6, hemi v8 with e-torque or ecodiesel. exceeding expectations... again. no wonder more people are switching to ram than ever before. ♪ ♪

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the war in ukraine enters its 100th day today, and president volodymyr zelenskyy said russian forces control 20% of his country. addressing luxembourg's parliament, he said the front line was 600 miles long and fierce battles were raging from the northeast to the south. he added, however, that ukrainian forces had some success in the south where they regained control of 20 small towns and villages. but added the situation remained grim in eastern ukraine. zelenskyy said around 100 people were dying and more than 400 were suffering injuries on a daily basis there as russian

forces have stepped up attacks in recent weeks in their bid to control the entire donbas region. meanwhile, ukraine's first lady, olena zelenska is rejecting efforts that ukraine should give up territory to end the war. in an interview with abc yesterday, zelenska said quote, you just can't concede, it's like conceding a freedom. she has no idea when the war will end, adding it's a difficult question that her 9-year-old son keeps asking her. the first lady thanked the united states for quote enormous support but implored americans to not get used to this war. here's more of her comments. we added some english translations at the bottom of the screen. of the screen

>> katty kay, that's the bet that vladimir putin is making that the united states and the rest of the west will get used to this war, that their attention will wander, that their commitment now to send money and military equipment to ukraine will wane. speak to us there about what's the situation in the uk, there in europe. are they still prepared to supply ukraine with what it needs even if this war has a significant economic toll and

could last for months, if not a year? >> reporter: yeah, this is something that i'm told ukrainian officials were raising as a concern within days of the russian invasion back in february. they knew that the world would be focused intently on ukraine for a period of time. and then other news would get in the way. we've had an awful lot of news in the u.s., here in europe as well, and on top of that news overload, if you like, understandably people are watching news in their own countries and the economic effect, as you're saying, in terms of higher prices and wait until we get into the fall when we're not getting the grain levels that we might have expected out of ukraine because fields have not been planted, farmers are busy or the fields are being bombed. we know there's going to be a food crisis, we're going to start feeling that come the fall, and that will be the period, too when the high energy prices, europeans have to heat their homes with gas, and those

prices go up as well, richard, when you look at the state of the war at the moment, people haven't been paying as close attention to as as they were early on. the news militarily for ukraine, coming out of the east is not looking as good as it was in the early days of the war when they managed to repel the convoy advancing on kyiv. what is been the nato response to the situation in the east. what are we seeing nato countries give ukraine that perhaps they weren't giving them before. >> let me take one step back. here we are at the hundred day point, and a hundred days ago, if we had a conversation, where would ukraine be now if it faced an enormous russian invasion, and we were told where things in fact where they do. we would have said wow, that's impressive, that ukraine with the help of europe, the united states, would be able to stand up to this massive russian military onslaught. kyiv would hold, the country

would remain sovereign, yes, there would be problems in the south and the east. from that perspective, i actually think what has been accomplished over the last hundred days is extraordinary. most of the predictions were wrong, and the direction being way too negative. as you say, the trends are not good. mass, sheer volume counts. this is a war that russia is now concentrating geographically in the east and the south. they're not trying to take the entire country, and they are pounding and demolishing town after town, village after village, and ukraine is paying an increasing price, not just at the civilian population, but also its military, so nato countries are, yes, the flows of money, the flows of military aid, of intelligence are continue, but russia, again, has certain advantages in this phase of the war they didn't have earlier because their forces aren't spread thin. their forces don't need to be mobile. this phase of the war is playing more to russia's strength,

rather than its weaknesses, and i think we're going to be with this for a long time, not just weeks, not just months, open ended and putin is counting on it. he is counting that we have issue fatigue, competition, he can at some point turn off energy to germany or some other country, to italy, to cause resistance there. he's hoping essentially that he has more staying power than the west. that's going to be the test going forward, ukraine's ability to resist, and our ability to help it. next, we'll go live to the president's balances act between the war overseas and gun reform here at home. "morning joe" will be right back. here at home "morning joe" will be right back (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪

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earlier this year, joe sat

down with the legendary author, margaret atwood, ahead of her latest book. the wide ranging conversation was conducted before a leaked initial draft majority opinion that would overturn roe v. wade. atwood addressed that bomb shell in a piece for the atlantic, "i invent the gilead, the supreme court is making it real. i thought i was writing fiction in the hand maid's trail," he spoke about a number of issues, from the war in ukraine. >> i wanted to ask you of the time period that your essays cover, 2004 to 2020. i try to explain to my children how boring our life was. i was born basically in a middle class family in the middle of the post war world, and, you know, my children have been through a couple of economic crashes. they've been through 9/11.

they've been through a pandemic. you write about all of this, and it's hard to explain to them just how tumultuous the last 20 years have been in the context of our own lives. >> that's true, but we had a kind of rest period, but it was preceded by the depression, and then world war ii, which was horrific, and i have to say don't underestimate russia. so -- and then we had the 50s, which was boom time. and we invented a lot of vaccines because before that period, there were all of these diseases that just ripped through. and quarantine was normal, so a lot of the stuff that's been happening feels normal to me but not for anybody younger. for anybody younger, it feels

abnormal, like what has happened. somebody said when trump got elected, a young person said this is the worst thing that's ever happened. and i said, no, it's not. it can get much worse. >> there are -- one of the things that was so disorienting to me and you write about it being disorienting to you, about us walking through this strange land of post truth. and i've been struck since the ukrainian -- the russian invasion of ukraine began how perhaps there has been a return to some basic standards of truth in the west, in the united states, across europe and places like hungary. >> i agree, and we're seeing an uptick for liberal democracy again. after a lot of eye rolling and people saying it doesn't work.

what's the alternative? well, we're getting a good look at it, and people shouldn't loosely throw around the world tyranny without knowing what that really means. so the other thing that i lived through was the cold war, which went on for quite a while, and i was in behind the iron curtain during that, and whatever we have in the liberal democracies now is nothing close. and we're seeing a big shut down in russia right now. we're seeing the press being censored, we're seeing very heavy handed control of news, but, again, we revert to orwell. there is truth, and if there isn't any truth, it's just a case of who's got the biggest megaphone, so it is the job of the media to try to find out the truth and to communicate it.

>> and you say in "tell the truth," you call yourself a screaming optimist. it's one of the very few things that my wife is irritated by me about, she thinks i'm a bit too polly annish at times, but you say you are a screaming optimist, do you remain a screaming optimist even now? >> well, what's the alternative. >> right. >> so either you have to have hope, in which case you do something or you don't have any hope, in which case you do nothing, and you say it's no use. i would rather take an optimistic position. you also have to be realistic, you have to look at what you're actually dealing with, but unless you have hope, it gets worse. >> it seems to me in reading these essays and following you,

it seems that you ask some of the questions and ask some of the questions during the me too movement that started in 2017 that i often hear from my wife, and you ask the question, why have accountability and transparency been framed as an an, to human rights, when did the search for truth become something we women should be fearful of. explain that. >> we should not be, and as i've been saying, truth is now having an up tick. we are seeing a return to the idea that you have to base your statements and actions on something real, and the people involved in the high profile cases like the weinstein, the

epstein and the cosby did that. you know, the reporters went for truth. they went for the documents, and there were trials. you know, we got to hear the evidence. we got to hear the case. and that is what we mean by that democratic value, which is also in the universal declaration of human rights. let's hear the evidence. let's hear what people have to say about what actually happened. so that's what all of that was about. but i think we're moving away from that now because we've had a good look at the alternative. we've had a good look at the censorship and spinning that's been going on behind we won't call it the iron curtain, we'll call it the putin curtain. try saying that fast. >> when you say that accountability and transparency

has been framed as antithetical to women's rights, it speaks of an ill liberalism on the left. we have seen an illiberalism on the right. i just wonder, do you think we're moving through that stage where liberal democracy, where rationality, where questioning hard truths even when they're uncomfortable to whatever side we're on perhaps may be a bit of a comeback? >> i certainly hope so. i see america growing together at least around the ukraine issue. but again, i think america got dozy. i think it took for granted its number one position and started a lot of infighting, and quite frankly, you can't afford that. so let me draw a little circle

for you. draw a circle. up at the top you put tyranny. down at the bottom you put chaos, and to the -- and through the middle, you put liberal democracy, and that's essentially the happiest place to be. for something you said. so then you put some arrows going up, both on the left and the right towards tyranny. then you put arrows going down on the left and the right towards chaos. and all of those are demonstrable from history. where you want to be is the middle. unfortunately, the middle is the place where both sides shoot at you. >> one of your speeches that are reprinted in this collection of essays was we hang by a thread. it was a speech you gave on october 9th, 2016. it was 20 days before the election of donald trump. and you said during this campaign we've seen an

outpouring of misogyny not seen since the witchcraft trials of the 17th century, and i am curious because we are all asked this question so often, how are we doing, how is america doing, my question to you is five, six years after you gave that speech, are we still hanging by that thread? have we come out on the other side in some ways better than you expected or are we still hanging by that thread? >> i would not say that we have come out of it in shining form, and i'm looking at some of the laws that are being passed in various states there, and thinking of florida just recently. i'm thinking of texas, so no, i don't think so. but it may be so that people

might be coming awake to the fact that they need to get it together, read the universal declaration of human rights, stop picking on people for being different. and honor the idea of democracy, which means that if you're a citizen, you should be able to vote. >> you also talk about your writing process, which i know a lot of novelists, a lot of writers will be fascinated by. and there was a moment -- i'm a huge beatles fan -- and there was a moment in peter jackson's documentary, "get back" where george harrison goes to john len lennon, you tell me when i sit down and write a song, i need to end it while sitting there. well, that's not the process for

handmaid's tale where you came up with an idea, but then you write that you sat on it for a very long time. can you tell our viewers why you did? >> well, i just thought it was too nutty. who's going to believe this. but hey, yeah, i thought it was too crazy. remember when this was, it was the early '80s, so we had had a lot of turmoil in the '60s. i was sitting in cambridge, massachusetts, during the the cuban missile crisis, then the vietnam uproar, then the summer of love that, didn't last very long, and the women's movement in public view and the '60s and

'70s. '80, ronald reagan gets elected and the rise of the religious rite, people were saying, we didn't get the outfits, but pretty much the program i enacted in the handmaid's tale, if you want women to get back in the home, how do you stuff them in there since they're all running around having jobs and money and things, so you go back to about 1850, so like that, i thought all right, this is just too crazy, and i started writing a different novel, which didn't work out, and the message was clear, okay, you have to do the handmaid's tale, or else the powers, no, i'm not going to say this -- the powers where i get my ideas, it's not true, are not going to let you write any novel

but the "handmaid's tale," i got started in west berlin and circled with the wall. >> joe's conversation with margaret atwood. coming up, the may job's report was just released. we're going live to cnbc to break down the numbers. "morning joe" will be right back. the numbers "morning joe" will brie ght back

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i'm american. >> i'm innocent. >> a foreigner takes a girl to bed after knowing her for a few hours, and the next morning she is dead. >> the accused pleads guilty. >> the hell i do. >> getpy a lawyer. call joe shapiro in washington. >> they're not allowed to practice here. >> in america you wouldn't know his rights. >> if you plead not guilty, will you be shot within a week and the cost of the bullet will be

billed to your family. >> but here, justice doesn't translate. >> the 1997 movie "red corner" starting richard gere took a look at the chinese justice system, it is a role that our next guest said damaged his career. because china didn't like it. joining us no, you "wall street journal" reporter eric schwartzel. his new book entitled "red carpet and china and the global battle for cultural supremacy." . thank you for joining us. you also have an op-ed called switching gears. let's talk about how richard gear went from the a-list to the blacklist. >> you're right. that movie red corner came out more than two decades ago but it is still costing richard gear and hollywood and the reason why is all it to with china's economic leverage over hollywood. when this movie came out in

1997. rich geerd was probably the most famous supporter of the dalai lama and the box office was an after thought to the studios and that is not the case and over the next two decades chinese box office would grow until it was number one in the world and every hollywood studio knew they would have to maintain access to that market and that would mean those that approve movies happy and not hiring actors like richard gear would become radioactive because of their previous support. >> and now there is so much talk and concern and discussion about the rise of china, economically especially, but now also wielding cultural supremacy, whether it be over ac -- actors and hollywood stars, what problem zz that pose. >> i think it is put an economic muzzle on a lot of people. not just in hollywood or sports,

but just western business in general. because chinese authorities have shown through many examples, that crossing them politically will result in economic consequences, closing access to the market. when richard gear's movie was koim out, he was banned from doing work in the country and so was mgm. so it only takes couple after examples like that for everyone across hollywood or western business to absorb the lesson that as china rises and it is political stance has become more and more of an issue on the world stage, you really can't engage them in my kind of meaningful dialogue otherwise you might be turned off from the 1.4 billion consumers. >> and money talks. you think about john cena who had to apologize in mandarin for saying taiwan is a country.

[ speaking foreign language ] >> these examples like they are spooky and they seem threatening to me and yet it happens. >> well, and i think an example like john cena is a good one because what he's doing is trying to avoid the fate of someone like richard gere. and he was so possibly supporting the dalai lama and criticizing the chinese authorities, he never apologized for it and that is why he's too radioactive for a studio to hire these days. john cena or any western executive who rushes to correct themselves or apologize to the chinese people have absorbed that lesson and figured out, i need to apologize if i want to be able to maintain access here and still see my movies get released there. >> and lebron james and his sneaker market, is this just a shoe that fits, excuse the pun,

where these people want to make money and china is willing to buy them, or is it a strategy on the part of china? >> i think it is both. i think it is still an economic no-brainer for a lot of the people running these companies to do whatever they can to maintain access to the chinese market. but you're absolutely right. i mean, throughout history, china has had this approach where they find public examples an they will say, look, if you cross this, you're out. you're banned and there is no negotiating. and often i'm those public examples teach everyone a lesson. and as china has grown more aggressive on world stage, that is really come to their advantage. because no one is really pushing back in the business community or certainly in the cultural community because they don't want to lose that access. >> and i want to understand president biden's role in all of

this. but also what you think should happen in the future. is there any way to perhaps contain what i think is a growing problem as this continues? >> i think that you're right there, there is something of a cultural cold war happening. frankly out of sight to americans. we've had a a hundred years through the power of hollywood and china has observed that and as they try to become a super power on the world stage they too need a cultural complement to that. while joe biden is involved in opening the chinese market during the obama administration to hollywood, and therefore really cementing china's leverage over hollywood through the studios, and he's not engaged on this issue. and i traveled when i was reporting this book to kenya, where there are obviously such a

huge chinese presence through the belt and road initiative. but what is not really being discussed nearly as much is the cultural element of, too. i went into apartments far outside of nairobi would find families watching chinese soap operas, or crouching tiger hidden dragon, what they deployed over the past century and now being one with chinese values and chinese entertainment being shipped around the world. >> the new book is "red carpet, hollywood, china and the global battle for cultural supremacy." absolutely fascinating. eric schwartzel, thank you very much. for being on this morning. >> and we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."

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back to "morning joe." it is 9:00 a.m. in the east, 6:00 a.m. out west including there in the hazy los angeles, california. we have a lot to cover here in our fourth hour. including president biden's plea to congress to act on guns. saying, too many schools have become, quote, killing fields. and with the war in ukraine now entering day 100, the question is, where exactly does it go from here. we're going to ask ukraine's ambassador to the united states a little later this hour. plus we've got some breaking economic news. united states adding 390,000 jobs in may, as more experts sound the arm